WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.640 So now on to the best part of the morning, my introduction of Anne Devison. 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:10.140 Anne, as you know, has had a distinguished career and continues to have a distinguished career, 3 00:00:10.260 --> 00:00:16.260 which shows a deep concern for social justice, highlighting social issues and influencing policy 4 00:00:16.260 --> 00:00:23.780 in many areas, including poverty, ageing, child abuse and disability. That's just naming a few 5 00:00:23.780 --> 00:00:30.740 areas. Anne is a writer, a broadcaster, a filmmaker and has been at the leading edge 6 00:00:30.740 --> 00:00:37.880 of social change throughout her career. For three consecutive years, Anne won the UN Peace Prize, 7 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:45.420 a special gold citation for films she made in war-ravaged Africa. Later, she wrote a book called 8 00:00:45.420 --> 00:00:51.720 Tell Me I'm Here, about her son Jonathan's struggles with schizophrenia, a book that was 9 00:00:51.720 --> 00:00:53.760 published worldwide and won the 19th Nobel Prize in History. Anne has been a great supporter of 10 00:00:53.760 --> 00:01:00.920 the 1991 Human Rights Award for Non-Fiction. Anne is also an Officer of the Order of Australia 11 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:07.960 for her work with mental illness. Anne's most recent book, Waging Peace, explores some of the 12 00:01:07.960 --> 00:01:14.920 reasons for war and its consequences. And this is a quote, really does a writer combine passion 13 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:21.900 and substance so effectively. Waging peace is a powerful call to moral arms. And that was written 14 00:01:21.900 --> 00:01:23.740 by Rick Sullivan at the Adelaide University. 15 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:36.440 Anne is a writer, a writer and aESEperator and author. Anne did no contact 16 00:01:47.940 --> 00:01:53.640 resilience, how some people can be resilient in adversity while others become overwhelmed, 17 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:59.440 and how we can learn how to be resilient and teach our children to be resilient. 18 00:02:00.600 --> 00:02:03.300 So over to you, Anne. Welcome. Thank you. 19 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:13.940 I was delighted when I thought about coming back here, and I lived in Adelaide for six or seven 20 00:02:13.940 --> 00:02:21.720 years, because it was here in Adelaide, really, that I had my first lesson in resilience. It 21 00:02:21.720 --> 00:02:28.260 wasn't a subject I thought of very much until one winter's evening. I'd been working at the 22 00:02:28.260 --> 00:02:35.800 South Australian Film Commission. We were living in South Terrace, and I came home feeling very 23 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:42.360 tired and very frightened. My elder son, Jonathan, had schizophrenia very badly, 24 00:02:42.440 --> 00:02:43.920 and he was 25 00:02:43.940 --> 00:02:49.700 going through a period when he thought that I was the devil and that he had to kill me, 26 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:57.300 which was a very terrible time for all of us. But on this particular occasion, this 27 00:02:57.300 --> 00:03:02.120 is why I was frightened. I came home and I was frightened. And I opened the door and 28 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:08.160 a major pipe, water pipe, had bust and the floor was awash with freezing cold water. 29 00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:15.600 So it was the last straw. And I sat down and felt very sorry for myself. I got hold 30 00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:21.000 of a directory, rang a plumber called Dave, and Dave turned up almost immediately. But 31 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:26.140 he wasn't interested in the pipe. He looked at me and he said, what's up, love? And I 32 00:03:26.140 --> 00:03:33.180 said, nothing, in my very British voice, nothing's wrong. And he said, but you're crying. 33 00:03:33.420 --> 00:03:37.940 And so I told him the story about how I was frightened of staying there on my 34 00:03:37.940 --> 00:03:38.140 own. 35 00:03:38.160 --> 00:03:38.860 And I told him the story about how I was frightened of staying there on my own. I'd 36 00:03:38.860 --> 00:03:44.160 already sent my other two children to boarding school simply because during that period it 37 00:03:44.160 --> 00:03:49.760 wasn't safe. And he listened to me and he said, oh, I'll fix that. Got a phone, love? 38 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:55.200 So I gave him the phone and he rang up and he said, Beth, there's a lady here who's 39 00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:57.820 frightened. He said, mind if I stay the night? 40 00:04:01.420 --> 00:04:07.320 And he didn't. As a matter of fact, he stayed two nights. And it was the beginning of a 41 00:04:07.320 --> 00:04:08.080 long-lasting 42 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:14.860 friendship. Because I learned that Beth and Dave had two sons with schizophrenia. And 43 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:21.400 they knew all the tricks in the area. They knew people who were beginning to start up 44 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:26.760 a fellowship here. And they were my friends and my sanity throughout the whole of the 45 00:04:26.760 --> 00:04:38.060 time that I lived here. I remember thinking afterwards that because of my English, I was 46 00:04:38.080 --> 00:04:51.340 no longer smiling and smiling no more. And I did no longer think about the travelers 47 00:05:02.260 --> 00:05:05.480 And that's not what I was brought up to do. 48 00:05:05.580 --> 00:05:09.680 So that I'd say to everyone, I'm absolutely fine, I'd say. 49 00:05:10.940 --> 00:05:15.520 And it taught me one of the most important lessons, I think, 50 00:05:15.580 --> 00:05:18.280 in learning to develop resilience, 51 00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:21.400 and that is not being afraid to ask for help. 52 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:24.160 That's so important. 53 00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:27.860 That's one of the things that we find at Anglicare all of the time 54 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:31.440 is people are often in absolute dire straits 55 00:05:31.440 --> 00:05:33.520 but are too afraid or too ashamed, 56 00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:36.940 or their pride gets in the way of asking for help. 57 00:05:37.100 --> 00:05:38.640 And it is important to do that 58 00:05:38.640 --> 00:05:41.660 because one of our roles is not to come in and save. 59 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:45.160 What we will actually do is give people the skills and the knowledge 60 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.800 and the confidence to actually make change. 61 00:05:49.220 --> 00:05:51.680 No, another story, 62 00:05:51.820 --> 00:05:54.640 I remember when I was writing this or thinking about this, 63 00:05:54.780 --> 00:05:56.600 all these memories returned. 64 00:05:56.820 --> 00:06:00.820 It was about a year later when Jonathan set fire to the back of the house 65 00:06:00.820 --> 00:06:01.100 where... 66 00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:05.000 Which fortunately was quite easy to put out. 67 00:06:05.260 --> 00:06:06.680 But he'd also... 68 00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:11.140 He was very mad in that period and very frightened himself. 69 00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:15.100 When it was hard to get anybody to come, 70 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:16.860 it was hard to get the police to come 71 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:19.540 because there weren't enough of them and they weren't trained. 72 00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:24.060 And often you'd ring them up in a panic, in a bad situation, 73 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:25.420 and they'd say, 74 00:06:25.580 --> 00:06:28.480 oh, we can't come till five or six o'clock in the morning, 75 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:29.760 and you'd ring them at night. 76 00:06:30.900 --> 00:06:37.640 So that, you know, it was much harder then than it ever would be now 77 00:06:37.640 --> 00:06:40.540 when we know much more about illnesses like that 78 00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:42.520 and we know that help is essential. 79 00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:46.160 But here Jonathan had really done a job properly. 80 00:06:46.340 --> 00:06:49.740 He'd trashed everything we ever possessed, well, more or less, 81 00:06:49.840 --> 00:06:53.720 and he'd thrown it right up the whole street. 82 00:06:53.980 --> 00:06:58.320 He'd thrown radios, he'd thrown cameras, he'd thrown pictures, 83 00:06:58.480 --> 00:06:59.740 he'd thrown books. 84 00:06:59.760 --> 00:07:00.600 He'd just... 85 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.600 The street was awash with all my belongings. 86 00:07:04.880 --> 00:07:08.240 And Bette came, the wife of the plumber, she came, 87 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:13.460 and it was sunset and she stood there with her arms akimbo 88 00:07:13.460 --> 00:07:16.820 and she looked like a Drysdale painting as she stood there. 89 00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:21.680 And she said, well, love, you sure taught him one thing. 90 00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:25.040 If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing properly. 91 00:07:25.900 --> 00:07:26.540 Right? 92 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:28.760 And... 93 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:29.060 And... 94 00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:33.240 I tell these stories because they were a link to my sanity. 95 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:37.380 You know, you need to laugh, you need to be able to laugh. 96 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:42.380 And that's when I began to wonder about the whole nature of resilience 97 00:07:42.380 --> 00:07:43.860 and what the word meant. 98 00:07:44.100 --> 00:07:49.160 And I discovered that the Spanish didn't even have a word for resilience. 99 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:53.360 And the French did, but they were reluctant to use it 100 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.600 because they thought it was an Anglo-American construct 101 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:58.100 and nothing to do with them. 102 00:07:58.400 --> 00:07:59.540 And it was only... 103 00:07:59.760 --> 00:08:03.160 During this period that people began to be aware 104 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:08.180 of the possibilities of encouraging people, 105 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.200 making sure that people could learn how to be resilient 106 00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:18.120 because quite apart from the exercise of asking for help, 107 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:22.640 humour's important and hope is the most important thing of all. 108 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:24.860 And it's not... 109 00:08:24.860 --> 00:08:26.620 Even if things look hopeless, 110 00:08:26.900 --> 00:08:29.640 there's always something that you can grasp. 111 00:08:29.760 --> 00:08:30.240 Hold on. 112 00:08:30.380 --> 00:08:33.380 So these were the exercises that I... 113 00:08:33.380 --> 00:08:35.980 that I suppose I gathered around me. 114 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:41.460 And my children, who'd be furious if they knew I was talking about them now, 115 00:08:41.540 --> 00:08:42.500 but they're grown up. 116 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:45.760 And my children also learnt... 117 00:08:46.280 --> 00:08:48.000 had to learn how to be resilient 118 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.720 and how to do things that help them make... 119 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:53.540 feel more secure. 120 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:57.300 So my daughter, who was then about 14, 15, 121 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:58.600 used to write poems. 122 00:08:58.700 --> 00:08:59.600 And she'd... 123 00:08:59.600 --> 00:08:59.740 She'd... 124 00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.620 I'd put them under my door. 125 00:09:00.780 --> 00:09:03.080 It was easier for her to write poetry 126 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.640 about what was happening and how she was feeling 127 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:08.660 than actually to confront it by talking about it. 128 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:12.940 So everybody had their own way of coming together. 129 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:17.040 But it was very important that the whole family worked together 130 00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:19.640 and that we worked with communities. 131 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.540 And that was where I think it was in South Australia 132 00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:26.620 that the first Schizophrenia Fellowship was started. 133 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:29.620 And people were hanging almost from the rooftops. 134 00:09:29.760 --> 00:09:30.560 People turned up. 135 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:32.280 So desperate was their need. 136 00:09:34.540 --> 00:09:35.860 Resilience itself... 137 00:09:36.520 --> 00:09:37.560 I'm going to stop here 138 00:09:37.560 --> 00:09:40.200 because it's a good place for questions, I think. 139 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:42.920 Because we're talking about us. 140 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.220 We're talking about the fact that 141 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:48.380 nearly everybody goes through periods in their life 142 00:09:48.380 --> 00:09:49.600 when they need resilience. 143 00:09:49.980 --> 00:09:51.160 And I'm just wondering 144 00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:56.280 how many of you have had stories or instances 145 00:09:56.280 --> 00:09:59.460 where resilience has become very important? 146 00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:02.080 Or anyone has a question they'd like to ask? 147 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:04.400 If you want to raise your hand 148 00:10:04.400 --> 00:10:07.680 to indicate that we could actually take a microphone to you. 149 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.420 Because it's from hearing all these stories, I think, 150 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:13.460 that our understanding... 151 00:10:13.460 --> 00:10:14.760 It's like a web of resilience 152 00:10:14.760 --> 00:10:16.980 that I was able to weave around me 153 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:19.500 through hearing that I wasn't the only one 154 00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:21.260 who was having a difficult time. 155 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:23.980 We all have difficult times in our lives. 156 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:24.880 Yeah. 157 00:10:25.540 --> 00:10:27.600 Yes, I've had a few instances 158 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:29.740 where I've certainly had to call on my interlocutor, 159 00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:32.140 my internal resources to cope with the situation. 160 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:35.200 But my question is on the link 161 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.080 between resilience and vulnerability. 162 00:10:38.380 --> 00:10:41.540 I wondered if you had some insights into... 163 00:10:42.980 --> 00:10:44.680 I suppose I'm looking at the flip side 164 00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:48.200 of exercising resilience is being vulnerable. 165 00:10:49.340 --> 00:10:50.820 And there has been some studies 166 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:54.220 by an American psychologist and social worker 167 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:55.240 on vulnerability 168 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.920 and the positive benefits of vulnerability. 169 00:10:58.920 --> 00:10:59.400 Of vulnerability. 170 00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:01.220 To happiness and well-being. 171 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:03.760 I mean, I think we... 172 00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:07.720 All of us have times when we're vulnerable. 173 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.040 Stop me if I'm not going in the right direction for you. 174 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.580 I think if we're not vulnerable, 175 00:11:13.780 --> 00:11:15.300 then we're not really being human. 176 00:11:15.560 --> 00:11:19.020 We're shutting off our fears. 177 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:21.520 We're shutting off our vulnerability. 178 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:26.860 And vulnerability can open all sorts of doors for us. 179 00:11:27.020 --> 00:11:29.400 It's like going back to saying, 180 00:11:29.400 --> 00:11:30.000 I'm vulnerable. 181 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:33.300 It's like asking for help again. 182 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:38.560 It's like going into a situation 183 00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:42.580 where not only are you vulnerable, 184 00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:44.900 but the people around you are maybe vulnerable. 185 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:48.700 And the importance of talking it through, I think. 186 00:11:50.760 --> 00:11:52.780 I mean, that's my take on vulnerability. 187 00:11:53.160 --> 00:11:55.180 Can you take it a bit further? 188 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:58.520 What was the actual research that you talked about? 189 00:11:58.760 --> 00:11:58.800 I'm... 190 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:00.920 I'm sorry, I can't recall the ladies. 191 00:12:01.380 --> 00:12:01.860 No. 192 00:12:02.520 --> 00:12:04.180 Yeah, Brené, Brian. 193 00:12:05.640 --> 00:12:07.920 I suppose I'm looking at it in the context of, 194 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.500 like, even in modern workplaces, 195 00:12:10.220 --> 00:12:13.680 it's really not acceptable to show vulnerability, 196 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:17.500 although there's lots of talk about building resilience 197 00:12:17.500 --> 00:12:21.000 as one of the values that they talk about. 198 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.600 But if you don't have obvious examples 199 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.800 or role models of people showing their vulnerability 200 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:27.780 and saying, look, I'm not coping with this, 201 00:12:27.780 --> 00:12:29.620 it's a bit of a false... 202 00:12:30.300 --> 00:12:30.800 Yeah. 203 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.600 ...dichotomy, and it's hard for younger people to sort of say, 204 00:12:34.660 --> 00:12:36.080 yes, it is OK to be vulnerable 205 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:40.880 and to express your emotions or your fears 206 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:43.920 and still be viewed as somebody who is competent 207 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:46.260 and able to get on with the job. 208 00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:50.200 I was reading about this fairly recently, 209 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:52.540 and there was an article in Sydney. 210 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:54.660 It may have been done here as well, 211 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.180 but it was about this very subject, 212 00:12:57.180 --> 00:13:00.220 that young people, particularly in factory situations 213 00:13:00.220 --> 00:13:03.080 or any other work situation 214 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.320 where you're not supposed to be vulnerable 215 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.200 because then you can't do your work properly. 216 00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:13.220 And I think good management has to allow for vulnerability. 217 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.680 It was something I learned when I ran the film school, 218 00:13:18.800 --> 00:13:21.300 the National Film School, for about four years, 219 00:13:21.420 --> 00:13:24.840 and I knew nothing about management. 220 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.000 And I didn't realise, 221 00:13:27.180 --> 00:13:28.960 I knew nothing about management 222 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.060 until I actually got to the film school. 223 00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:35.500 And there was a deputy who didn't particularly want me there 224 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:37.240 because he thought he should have the job. 225 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:43.060 And he started by asking me what my views were about delegations. 226 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:44.900 And I hadn't a clue what he meant. 227 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.900 I'd come in because they'd found it hard to find somebody 228 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:54.400 who they wanted, who had the background in actual filming. 229 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.440 I'd made a lot of documentary films then. 230 00:13:56.540 --> 00:13:57.160 And they'd say, 231 00:13:57.160 --> 00:13:59.680 and that seemed more important than knowing about management. 232 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:02.020 But boy, after a short time, 233 00:14:02.800 --> 00:14:05.600 I wished I'd had more management experience. 234 00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:08.640 And I had to be prepared to be vulnerable. 235 00:14:09.280 --> 00:14:13.800 In the end, I had to bring it up with the council 236 00:14:13.800 --> 00:14:17.340 because I felt I needed feedback. 237 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:23.880 And I had to, I think, 238 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.180 expose my own vulnerability, 239 00:14:27.380 --> 00:14:30.400 to someone I knew, I thought could probably help me. 240 00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:32.640 There was a wonderful woman called Stella Cornelius 241 00:14:32.640 --> 00:14:35.880 who had a lot to do with peace initiatives 242 00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:38.860 and who died fairly recently. 243 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.380 But she was like a godmother to me. 244 00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:46.080 And I was getting more and more ploughed under the ground 245 00:14:46.900 --> 00:14:49.180 by not being prepared to be vulnerable 246 00:14:49.180 --> 00:14:52.440 and by recognising that I wasn't doing my job well. 247 00:14:52.540 --> 00:14:55.920 I went, I used to go down to the men's, 248 00:14:55.920 --> 00:14:57.140 the students' local... 249 00:14:57.160 --> 00:14:58.760 the booze after work at night. 250 00:14:58.840 --> 00:14:59.600 They were downstairs. 251 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.080 Because that's where a whole lot of graffiti used to go up. 252 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.280 And it was when I found graffiti of the previous director, 253 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:08.660 who was a lovely person. 254 00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:12.360 He had a dagger stuck in his back, 255 00:15:12.520 --> 00:15:15.340 a drawing of a story with a dagger in his back 256 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:16.800 and drops of blood on the floor. 257 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:19.820 And next to him was a drawing of me 258 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:21.920 with a noose around my neck 259 00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:24.740 and the hangman's, you know, stand there. 260 00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:26.180 And a big question mark. 261 00:15:26.180 --> 00:15:29.260 Which wasn't very charming to find. 262 00:15:30.020 --> 00:15:33.960 And that's when I went in trouble. 263 00:15:34.140 --> 00:15:35.540 I was not sleeping at night. 264 00:15:35.680 --> 00:15:39.000 And I went to Stella to ask her and to say, 265 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:39.940 I'm not coping. 266 00:15:41.140 --> 00:15:44.420 And I went with a pencil and a pad 267 00:15:44.420 --> 00:15:48.620 and I went prepared to write down a whole lot of lessons. 268 00:15:48.780 --> 00:15:52.700 Number one, continue to go to the downstairs toilets. 269 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:53.940 Number two... 270 00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:56.020 And she took one look. 271 00:15:56.020 --> 00:15:57.840 And she took me by the hand 272 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.660 and she laid me down on a long sofa 273 00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:02.860 and she covered me with a cashmere rug. 274 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.960 And she said, number one lesson, look after yourself. 275 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:13.040 And that was another very important lesson that I had. 276 00:16:13.140 --> 00:16:13.880 Look after yourself. 277 00:16:14.300 --> 00:16:19.800 And she told me how her husband had been an international farrier 278 00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:23.040 and when he died, leaving her a lot of money, 279 00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:24.640 she didn't approve of... 280 00:16:26.540 --> 00:16:27.380 scalping animals. 281 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:30.740 And so she sold the whole business 282 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:35.680 and she began starting Circles of Peace 283 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.920 all around Australia, actually. 284 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.500 She became very singularly important. 285 00:16:42.040 --> 00:16:44.720 And she was a person I always used to go back to 286 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.660 to discuss where I was going, 287 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:47.900 where I was going with the book. 288 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:52.760 I found when I wrote the story of my son's schizophrenia, 289 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.260 which was called Tell Me I'm Here, 290 00:16:56.020 --> 00:16:58.980 and I wrote it about six months after Jonathan died 291 00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:01.360 because I needed to write it. 292 00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:03.860 I needed to understand what had happened. 293 00:17:04.320 --> 00:17:09.000 And a psychiatrist friend rang me from Adelaide, 294 00:17:09.040 --> 00:17:10.020 I was then in Sydney, 295 00:17:10.180 --> 00:17:12.520 and said, Anne, if you're doing this book, 296 00:17:13.360 --> 00:17:14.840 you're going to need backup. 297 00:17:15.080 --> 00:17:17.760 There are going to be times when you find it really tough to write. 298 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.780 And I'm suggesting that you get four people 299 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:22.740 whom you really trust, 300 00:17:22.820 --> 00:17:25.780 maybe get a psychiatrist or a doctor, 301 00:17:26.020 --> 00:17:28.440 get three or four people who you can ring 302 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.680 and who are prepared to let you ring 303 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.460 even at night if you're really distressed. 304 00:17:33.620 --> 00:17:35.740 And I'll be the first one to volunteer. 305 00:17:36.060 --> 00:17:40.120 And that was a really important thing that I did 306 00:17:40.120 --> 00:17:43.500 because it allowed me, when I was writing this book, 307 00:17:43.600 --> 00:17:45.220 sometimes to ring up and say, 308 00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:47.040 look, I need help, SOS. 309 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:53.740 So I guess, I think that's a very important point you brought up 310 00:17:53.740 --> 00:17:56.000 because it obviously has managed to help me. 311 00:17:56.620 --> 00:17:57.300 But I'm not sure that's a matter for people to understand. 312 00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:02.280 And I'm wondering if anyone here has come across this as a manager 313 00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.320 about the need to allow staff at times 314 00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:10.040 to show vulnerability, 315 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.600 or if anyone has any response to that. 316 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:15.840 I think it's a critical point 317 00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:18.840 that is with us now in contemporary times. 318 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:21.680 Anne, thank you for being here today 319 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.060 and raising the topic of resilience. 320 00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:26.000 I think it's a critical point. 321 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.820 a hugely underestimated part of our wellbeing and our psyche. 322 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:35.400 I've come through quite distressing depression recently 323 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:40.800 and I made quite a conscious decision not to fudge it in my workplace, 324 00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:42.680 to be quite open about it, 325 00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:46.620 partly because fudging it is just too much hard work, 326 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.700 but also to realising that vulnerability is actually a strength. 327 00:18:52.620 --> 00:18:56.740 It's often seen as a weakness, but it is truly a strength to, 328 00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:00.780 I guess, expose your soul, regardless of the consequences. 329 00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:05.060 And I've found in the majority of cases, 330 00:19:05.060 --> 00:19:08.700 it's actually been met with an equal amount of vulnerability 331 00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.900 from my colleagues in particular. 332 00:19:11.660 --> 00:19:13.280 I work for local government, 333 00:19:13.300 --> 00:19:17.060 which is not renowned for a huge amount of emotional intelligence. 334 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:21.680 However, for the majority of people, 335 00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:25.760 when I did reveal to them the struggles I was having, 336 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:29.700 the support was very much forthcoming 337 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:34.720 and the sharing of stories also was very much forthcoming. 338 00:19:35.260 --> 00:19:38.480 I still think we have a long way to go in management circles 339 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:42.640 in terms of how they, quote unquote, 340 00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:45.580 deal with someone with mental illness. 341 00:19:46.840 --> 00:19:49.760 I think there needs to be a lot more awareness about it 342 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:51.560 and it's not to be feared. 343 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:55.860 And having gone through the quite distressing period 344 00:19:55.860 --> 00:19:56.960 and out on the other side, 345 00:19:57.020 --> 00:19:58.540 I actually look at it now as a blessing 346 00:19:58.540 --> 00:20:03.200 because, like you, I refuse to ask for help in any circumstance. 347 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.920 I was brought up to be strongly independent 348 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.700 and I thought asking for help was a weakness, 349 00:20:08.780 --> 00:20:10.240 but now I see it as a strength. 350 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:12.220 Thank you for that. 351 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.080 It was a very good... 352 00:20:15.700 --> 00:20:18.340 You'd think I had never had anything to do with microphones. 353 00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:20.140 I'm making of this. 354 00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:23.120 Anyone like to add to that? 355 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:23.820 Anyone? 356 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:24.380 Yes. 357 00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:27.180 We'll go... 358 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:27.580 We've got two people. 359 00:20:27.860 --> 00:20:31.480 Yeah, we've got a lady down here in green 360 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:32.900 and a gentleman behind. 361 00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:35.960 Yeah. Oh, it's coming. 362 00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:39.480 It probably... I'm just thinking... 363 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.960 It probably comes up with athletes as well, 364 00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:43.180 with super athletes. 365 00:20:43.860 --> 00:20:48.460 That whole scandal and mess that was made 366 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:49.800 of the last Olympic Games 367 00:20:49.800 --> 00:20:52.540 when kids were imbibing... 368 00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:56.360 Athletes were imbibing drugs and so on and so on. 369 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.800 There were clearly some who were very alarmed 370 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.620 by what was happening but didn't speak up. 371 00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:03.800 So it is a very important point. 372 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:06.200 Sorry I butted into you. 373 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:07.460 Yes, thank you. 374 00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:09.020 Thank you for that. 375 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.860 I don't know who was speaking, but I appreciate it very much. 376 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:14.060 I wonder... 377 00:21:14.060 --> 00:21:16.180 Can we just ask who was speaking then? 378 00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:17.720 Who was speaking? 379 00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:18.540 Thank you. 380 00:21:18.540 --> 00:21:19.780 I wasn't roaming around. 381 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:22.300 Thank you. 382 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:23.780 Sorry, I interrupted. 383 00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:26.360 This whole idea of vulnerability 384 00:21:26.360 --> 00:21:27.280 and... 385 00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:30.420 It relates very much to my work. 386 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:33.480 I work with families with adolescents 387 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.520 who are experiencing mental health issues 388 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:39.160 and school refusal. 389 00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:42.720 And so in that area, 390 00:21:43.540 --> 00:21:47.580 I find often that there are many layers. 391 00:21:48.540 --> 00:21:51.700 There are two reasons why these kids are refusing school. 392 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:55.180 They're not always just defiant disorders. 393 00:21:56.120 --> 00:21:58.760 That there's a lot of anxiety behind that 394 00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:00.480 and vulnerability behind that. 395 00:22:01.340 --> 00:22:07.820 And so I'm wanting to shift the question just a little bit 396 00:22:07.820 --> 00:22:12.500 to ask about my interest in this, 397 00:22:12.540 --> 00:22:16.000 to find out whether you believe that resilience 398 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.900 is something that is part of the personality, 399 00:22:22.280 --> 00:22:24.220 inherent in a personality, 400 00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:30.400 and the links between how resilience is learned 401 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.860