WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.300 Good morning everyone. My name's Megan Hender. I'm an elected member of the Adelaide City Council 2 00:00:05.300 --> 00:00:12.920 and I'm here to chair today's session. Welcome to the 2016 Festival of Ideas and today's session 3 00:00:12.920 --> 00:00:18.420 Making Better Cities. This session is proudly presented by the Adelaide City Council 4 00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:26.500 and it's part of our celebrations to mark the fact that we have this year reached the milestone of 5 00:00:26.500 --> 00:00:29.880 50-50 men and women representation in our chamber. 6 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:38.840 That's not unique actually. We've met a number of women this morning because we've had a women's 7 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:44.080 in local government session breakfast this morning and there are many councils who have 8 00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:47.180 achieved that but it's still, well there are some councils who have achieved that. It's still quite 9 00:00:47.180 --> 00:00:53.800 rare and I have to say it was off a very low base in Adelaide's case and so we've been decided that 10 00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:56.480 we would celebrate that by making this session a very special one. 11 00:00:56.500 --> 00:01:04.560 a contribution through this festival to the idea of cities and the role that women play 12 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:04.880 in it. 13 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.900 I'll introduce you to our panel in a moment, but before that I want to do a few things. 14 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.780 Firstly, to acknowledge, as we always do, that we're meeting on the traditional lands 15 00:01:14.780 --> 00:01:18.020 of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains and that we pay our respect to their cultural 16 00:01:18.020 --> 00:01:22.640 heritage, beliefs and relationship with the land, and acknowledge that they are of continuing 17 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:27.620 importance to the Kaurna people living today and that we pay respect to their elders past 18 00:01:27.620 --> 00:01:28.400 and present. 19 00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:30.760 A little housekeeping. 20 00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:35.120 If you haven't already, could you please switch your mobile phone to silent? 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.580 You're very welcome to connect with the festival via Twitter and Instagram. 22 00:01:40.880 --> 00:01:51.720 The hashtag is AdelFOI and the Twitter handle is AdelFOI and Instagram is AdelFOI. 23 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:53.580 It's pretty easy, really. 24 00:01:55.240 --> 00:02:00.620 Unauthorised recordings of any kind are not permitted during the session, but the session 25 00:02:00.620 --> 00:02:05.820 is being audio recorded by Radio Adelaide for broadcasts for future podcasts. 26 00:02:06.940 --> 00:02:12.300 We will have an opportunity for some questions at the end, but we'll probably keep that 27 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:16.220 opportunity fairly narrow because we've got a number of people on the panel and I need 28 00:02:16.220 --> 00:02:18.260 to make sure that they all get a good chance to speak. 29 00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:22.620 The program directors also asked me just to indicate a couple of things. 30 00:02:22.640 --> 00:02:25.220 The program changes, for those of you who are here for longer. 31 00:02:25.980 --> 00:02:31.480 Firstly, Indy Johar has had to cancel his appearance at the festival, so for those of you who were 32 00:02:31.480 --> 00:02:33.620 attending that session, that won't be happening. 33 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:41.420 Tim Dunlop, programmed at Hetzel at 5.15, is now going to speak at the Open State Hub 34 00:02:41.420 --> 00:02:42.420 at 4pm. 35 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:48.300 So can you please note that earlier time and the program and the festival apologises for 36 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:49.820 any inconvenience that might cause. 37 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:52.480 So, quickly, let me introduce. 38 00:02:52.480 --> 00:02:53.160 Let me introduce our speakers. 39 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:59.620 Four extremely impressive women I have here to my right, each with a substantial CV that 40 00:02:59.620 --> 00:03:02.900 could keep me going for quite some time, so I hope they'll forgive me if I jump through 41 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:04.300 each of the CVs pretty quickly. 42 00:03:04.820 --> 00:03:09.280 So our first panellist is Jane Jost, sitting closest to me. 43 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:15.060 Jane studied English literature at Adelaide University and then has had a very varied 44 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:22.300 career, ABC journalist, owner of a PR agency, a counsellor and deputy Lord Mayor, a consultant 45 00:03:22.480 --> 00:03:24.760 here in Adelaide and more recently in Sydney. 46 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:30.100 And she's currently, and she moved to Sydney to join the Central Sydney Planning Commission. 47 00:03:30.380 --> 00:03:32.300 She had a long-standing interest in cities. 48 00:03:32.440 --> 00:03:35.820 She's currently CEO of the City Community Foundation. 49 00:03:37.540 --> 00:03:44.120 She is also the author of this book, Places Women Make, Unearthing the Contribution of 50 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:45.260 Women to Our Cities. 51 00:03:45.700 --> 00:03:50.540 And this lovely little book is available at the bookshop outside. 52 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:52.460 It has... 53 00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:57.520 It has recently won the Australian Institute of Architects' Bates Smart Award for Architecture 54 00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:58.220 in the Media. 55 00:03:58.480 --> 00:04:00.480 So I recommend it to you. 56 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:07.460 Alongside Jane is another Jane who's very well known to all South Australians, Jane 57 00:04:07.460 --> 00:04:10.140 Lomax-Smith, Dr Jane Lomax-Smith AM. 58 00:04:11.320 --> 00:04:13.240 Jane was a pathologist by training. 59 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:16.480 She worked in London, Boston and Adelaide where she ran her own pathology practice. 60 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:21.700 In Adelaide, she was three times elected a counsellor, twice elected as Lord Mayor, 61 00:04:21.700 --> 00:04:28.280 twice elected as a State MP as a member of Adelaide, held several portfolios including 62 00:04:29.080 --> 00:04:30.040 education and tourism. 63 00:04:30.620 --> 00:04:34.980 She's still very active in a huge range of community activities and is the Director of 64 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.740 the Jam Factory, Centre for Contemporary Craft and Design and Chair of the South Australian 65 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:39.020 Museum. 66 00:04:39.400 --> 00:04:44.220 And in 2013, she was made a member of the Order of Australia for significant service 67 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:47.020 to the Parliament and to the community of South Australia. 68 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:51.680 To her right is Elisa Palacios. 69 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:57.320 She's an architect born in Italy who describes herself as an urban nomad. 70 00:04:58.080 --> 00:05:02.620 She's worked in places as varied and interesting as Los Angeles, Portugal, Southern Italy, 71 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.600 Palestine, China, Yemen, Mongolia. 72 00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:13.420 She has experience both teaching and practising her craft and is now the Senior Lecturer of 73 00:05:13.420 --> 00:05:18.160 Urban Design and Landscape Architecture at the School of Architecture and Built Environment 74 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.220 here at Adelaide University. 75 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:28.980 And to her right, Kirsteen Mackay, also an architect, educated as an architect in Glasgow, 76 00:05:30.260 --> 00:05:35.820 has worked between, in the compulsory gap year between her degree and her diploma, she 77 00:05:35.820 --> 00:05:39.800 worked as an architect in London where she tells me amongst other things she worked on 78 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.200 the London Eye, which was designed by a woman. 79 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:48.560 She then went back to Scotland to complete her studies and establish her own practice, 80 00:05:49.300 --> 00:05:50.200 which grew to a practice of art. 81 00:05:50.220 --> 00:05:57.740 She was the head of the Government, starting as the Head of Design and Review at the Commission 82 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:03.040 for Architecture and Built Environment, got interested in South Australia because of 83 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:07.800 the work Tim Horton was doing over here, and moved to Adelaide to join the Office of Design 84 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:14.340 and Architecture, South Australia, ODASA, and she now heads that as our Government Architect. 85 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.980 So just very briefly to let you know how this session is going to run, we're going to start 86 00:06:20.220 --> 00:06:26.180 with a short address from Jane Jost, because she wrote the book, so she gets to speak. 87 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:31.160 She'll talk to you for about 10 minutes, and then she'll join the rest of us down on the 88 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:32.500 panel for a discussion. 89 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:37.720 So if you could join me please in thanking and welcoming the panellists, and particularly 90 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:39.020 in welcoming Jane to the podium. 91 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.580 Thanks very much, Megan, and it's an absolute delight. 92 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:50.200 Thank you. 93 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:50.740 It's a pleasure to be here. 94 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:56.500 I'd also like to acknowledge that we meet on Kaurna country. 95 00:06:58.100 --> 00:07:04.520 Place is so important, and in a way this country is their country, but it's all our country 96 00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:05.080 as well. 97 00:07:05.780 --> 00:07:17.380 Place is important to us because it defines us, and we all want in the chaos of modern 98 00:07:17.380 --> 00:07:20.200 life to feel that we belong somewhere. 99 00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:25.140 It's interesting for me to be talking this morning in this hall. 100 00:07:25.380 --> 00:07:32.840 I did exams in this hall, and last time I was on this stage I was strangely handing 101 00:07:32.840 --> 00:07:39.760 out degrees because I was a member of the council, and just across the river my children 102 00:07:39.760 --> 00:07:47.080 were brought up, and we were always walking through those wonderful parklands that Adelaide 103 00:07:47.080 --> 00:07:48.760 is so blessed with. 104 00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:55.900 Adelaide is a blessed city, I think, in many of the qualities of its city, and it's certainly 105 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:02.060 where I fell in love with the idea that it would be good to be involved in making great 106 00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:03.300 places in cities. 107 00:08:03.780 --> 00:08:11.160 Because in the end, cities are about places, and we're here, all of us, because we're interested 108 00:08:11.900 --> 00:08:16.320 in making better cities, and you're here, I guess, because you care about that too. 109 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:26.520 This city, but if we stop for a moment to set up this conversation and think, what are 110 00:08:26.520 --> 00:08:27.100 places? 111 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:34.980 Places are physical, places are cultural, places are also open space, and they're the 112 00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:38.420 connections, the way that we get around. 113 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:45.120 In this city, it's got that fabulous sort of mantle of the Adelaide Hills that sits 114 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:45.940 around it. 115 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:51.540 And a vast sort of sky that I think points to the desert. 116 00:08:52.560 --> 00:08:55.800 So, what made me write this little book? 117 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:01.680 And I must acknowledge, there are a lot of women in the room today, but there are also 118 00:09:01.680 --> 00:09:09.280 a few good men here, and one of them is Michael Boland, publisher of Wakefield Press, who 119 00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:16.300 supported me in this journey of telling a different story, in which I hope... 120 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:29.020 in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in 121 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:45.840 fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in 122 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:46.000 fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in 123 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.300 fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in fact, in 124 00:09:46.300 --> 00:09:55.560 shaping our cities. When I got involved in leading change, I've just been in the town hall 125 00:09:55.560 --> 00:10:01.220 for breakfast and there's a photo board of women who've been on council. I was actually number 126 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:08.340 eight as a woman and the Adelaide City Council is the oldest council in Australia and I was number 127 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:15.460 eight in 1989 and at the time I arrived I thought it would be polite to tell the incumbent Lord 128 00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:23.960 Mayor that I had this idea I could contribute something. I was 34 and he said, oh no, we run the 129 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:33.860 city now, you know, you're a housewife and I wasn't really welcome. Since then, one of the dedications 130 00:10:33.860 --> 00:10:41.700 in my book is partly a celebration of Jane Jacobs, the great American urbanist, 131 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.440 and the dedication I wrote 132 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:54.080 is designing a dream city is easy, rebuilding a living one takes imagination and this conversation 133 00:10:54.080 --> 00:11:02.480 is really about how do you rebuild a living one and that we need the imagination of women 134 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:12.960 to help us do that. Well, when I first became involved, I was really motivated by the preservation 135 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.060 of Australia's... 136 00:11:14.060 --> 00:11:15.440 I think... 137 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:22.900 most in tact colonialism heritage which was the city, the 19th century buildings that 138 00:11:22.900 --> 00:11:29.880 in the city in North Adelaide and actually beyond through the suburbs in Adelaide, and 139 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:36.600 it was extraordinary that it was such a radical idea to think to conserve that, but it was 140 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:45.300 really the motivation of why I ran for council, and I was there, you know, for two years in 141 00:11:45.300 --> 00:11:52.180 learning in a way and I read that Jane Jacobs book given to me by the late Professor Hugh Stretton 142 00:11:52.180 --> 00:11:58.120 the the life and death of the great American city he'd said to me this is all you will need 143 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:06.200 to learn how to shape cities and the architects in the room are nodding but I worked out you know 144 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:13.800 we do nothing alone we we can never lead change it takes courage to do it and in a way many of 145 00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:21.540 the stories in my book about are about the courage of women to stand up and question and lead change 146 00:12:21.540 --> 00:12:28.460 in the cities but I gathered around me it seems sensible to get other women into the council 147 00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:36.300 so when I was asked to do this it was quite delightful to think that I had encouraged Jane 148 00:12:36.300 --> 00:12:43.580 Lomax Smith I had been encouraged by the late Alderman Rosemary Boko I encouraged Jane 149 00:12:43.580 --> 00:12:51.980 Jane encouraged the Deputy Lord Mayor Megan Hender so there's a thread there but also Jackie 150 00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:57.640 Shannon Gillan who's here today was a young really passionate environmentalist architect 151 00:12:57.640 --> 00:13:03.320 when she joined council at the time that I was there she'd been working with Peter Garrett 152 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:10.720 in the in the Australian Conservation Foundation Francine Connor who's also here was a resident 153 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.440 and we thought that we could make 154 00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:24.380 change and I think we did in a way we began change it's 50-50 here now in the council but it's still 155 00:13:25.660 --> 00:13:34.780 relatively rare to have that kind of involvement I've had the the privilege in a way and the 156 00:13:34.780 --> 00:13:40.320 pleasure over the last 15 years in Sydney of working quite closely with Lord Mayor Clover 157 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.600 Moore she's just managed to do 158 00:13:43.580 --> 00:14:13.380 women seven men three and she has Monica Barone who she's worked with as CEO for 12 years and it has been interesting because while she has surrounded herself with advisors who have been great advisors to her and commissioning architects to do great work she's really focused on that city as a city of 159 00:14:13.380 --> 00:14:21.420 villages and the idea and it's an idea I write about in the book that in the end we're all villages at 160 00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:28.480 heart and we want to have a place where we can accidentally connect to people that we know or people we don't 161 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:38.180 know and that the way we design the shared spaces of the city can make that happen it's a very recent 162 00:14:38.180 --> 00:14:45.520 change. In my book I write, because I tried to write stories of people from across Australia's 163 00:14:45.520 --> 00:14:50.240 city and to unearth some of the women that are not so well known or not known for what they 164 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:57.020 actually did in relation to cities. So I wrote about Elizabeth Macquarie who was really behind 165 00:14:57.020 --> 00:15:05.180 the idea of a government architect. Well it's only been in the last really two years that 166 00:15:05.180 --> 00:15:12.460 there's been a woman government architect, Kirsteen Mackay is one of the first, Jill Garner 167 00:15:12.460 --> 00:15:19.820 in Melbourne's just been appointed and Catherine Townsend in Canberra and this is a really important 168 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:27.380 role for women to be able to have a voice in the decision making around what happens in our cities 169 00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:34.900 and in a way again it's that critical mass when you have three, it tips the balance 170 00:15:34.900 --> 00:15:35.160 around what happens in our cities and in a way again it's that critical mass when you have three, 171 00:15:35.160 --> 00:15:45.680 one voice is never enough. So I thought to set up the conversation I might read a little bit from my 172 00:15:45.680 --> 00:15:56.900 introduction which is the idea that the city is now our living room. Cities are the playrooms of our lives 173 00:15:56.900 --> 00:16:04.500 holding our past and promising our future as we crowd into cities to live and work and as jobs 174 00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:11.280 force us to become more mobile our cities are becoming shared places, places in which we stay 175 00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:19.520 and spend time when we are not at home and not at work. People are increasingly aware of how cities 176 00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:27.200 can make them feel and they choose one over another because of what it offers and Adelaide's 177 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:34.480 always been quite focused on that idea. The generation born in the 1980s, the first generation 178 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:40.080 of the urbanists called the millennials are likely to be Australia's first apartment dwelling 179 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:48.440 nation, generation. They've opted, many of them, to live closer to work and to choose the sense of 180 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:55.420 belonging and convenience and connection to a more urban life rather than a suburban lifestyle 181 00:16:56.140 --> 00:17:03.480 and then there are those who leave the city for a town by the sea or in the mountains or for a house 182 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:04.480 in a small town. They're not going to be able to live in a small town. They're going to be able to live 183 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:10.980 in a smaller city and they still want good places to share village life, places where they can 184 00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:19.260 connect and make community. Now with more mobility and with more people living alone, belonging to a 185 00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:27.160 community becomes even more important to a meaningful life. Although cities have grown hugely 186 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:33.780 over the past 100 years, people do remain villagers at heart. Children growing up in 187 00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:40.520 rural areas still need trees to climb. We need to see the green of the garden and the blue sky above. 188 00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:49.460 The city is now our living room. We want the house and garden comfort and style of home in our local 189 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:56.800 streets and parks and the shared places. At weekends we go out for coffee, to galleries and libraries, 190 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:03.700 to talks or just to walk and hang out with strangers in charming, lively public places. 191 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:11.840 We're also looking for places that enable us to feel alive, stimulated and as citizens aware that we belong to a shared humanity. 192 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:19.900 At each stage of our life and as we live longer, we're redefining our needs and where we want to be. 193 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:27.900 Places women make is mostly concerned with Australia's major cities and the Australian women who have 194 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:33.360 contributed to shaping them. And for each of the women that are in, there's another one, 195 00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:33.680 the 196 00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:33.900 City of London. The City of London is a place that has been a place of great interest to me. 197 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:40.920 It's not a place that didn't make it, but it is in the end a collection of a body of work by women. 198 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:48.480 And I hear new stories every day in my work in communities about what women have done. 199 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.360 I wonder how many of you knew that a woman had designed the London Eye. 200 00:18:55.880 --> 00:19:03.680 So, our cities are really places that have led us to the future. 201 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.360 And they've largely been designed by men in Australia. 202 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.020 Women, I write, are the uncelebrated urban heroines of our cities. 203 00:19:14.600 --> 00:19:20.040 They've actually done much to make Australia's cities and communities better places to live in. 204 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:26.880 But their stories are not as visible as those of the men who mostly design the buildings in our cities. 205 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:31.680 Cities are man-made places and mostly the work of men. 206 00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:33.660 The stories are not as visible as those of the men who mostly design the buildings in our cities. Cities are man-made places and mostly the work of men. 207 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:33.740 The stories are not as visible as those of the men who mostly design the buildings in our cities. 208 00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:39.020 The stories, I've told, have been remembered and gathered over 20 years of working in communities. 209 00:19:40.060 --> 00:19:43.320 And show just what women have done. 210 00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:49.140 In Australia, men have been the hero architects of most of our buildings. 211 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:51.820 Leading in the design and the authorship. 212 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.500 Even if women were invisibly designing and detailing behind the scenes. 213 00:19:58.260 --> 00:20:03.640 What I've tried to do is explore the question of would it make any difference 214 00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:07.480 if more women were the designers of our cities? 215 00:20:07.620 --> 00:20:09.620 Is there a different sensibility? 216 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:12.080 How do women work and think? 217 00:20:12.460 --> 00:20:19.300 And when you look over many of the inspired decisions 218 00:20:19.300 --> 00:20:21.840 and magnificent plans for change, 219 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.920 I found that there were often women behind them. 220 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:29.540 I'll just close with a local example, 221 00:20:29.560 --> 00:20:32.820 which is sort of part of my story and part of Jane's story. 222 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:37.680 Um, which is the rethinking of North Terrace. 223 00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:41.060 Um, in 1995, I ran as Lord Mayor 224 00:20:41.060 --> 00:20:44.680 and really lost the election over the idea of the North Terrace renewal, 225 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.540 um, which seemed too radical 226 00:20:47.540 --> 00:20:51.340 because it would remove some of the, um, ash trees, 227 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.520 the old senescent ash trees. 228 00:20:53.620 --> 00:20:58.380 But 15 years later, um, well, 15 years later, 229 00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:02.640 you have, or 25, this wonderful public space. 230 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.640 But it was really Jane Lomax-Smith as Lord Mayor, 231 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.520 Jude Munro, who revisited that idea 232 00:21:10.520 --> 00:21:14.160 with, um, Diana Laidlaw, a minister, 233 00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:17.400 and her advisor, Janet Wirth, 234 00:21:18.060 --> 00:21:24.060 who realised how important it was to get this to happen for Adelaide. 235 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:29.740 And given that culture is so much at the heart of Adelaide's, um, reality 236 00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.320 and its idea of itself as a city, 237 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:38.060 um, I'm very pleased that it, that the capable hands of others 238 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:39.840 made that happen. 239 00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:41.560 I'll leave it at that. 240 00:21:42.780 --> 00:21:43.260 APPLAUSE 241 00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:47.220 Thank you, Jane. 242 00:21:47.420 --> 00:21:50.080 Um, thank you so much for setting up our conversation 243 00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:52.640 and I want to pick up on some of the ideas that you've raised. 244 00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:55.680 In Jane's book, she talks about how she started this, 245 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:57.580 the writing of it by walking through a city, 246 00:21:57.640 --> 00:21:59.240 through the city of Sydney and recognising 247 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.180 that pretty much all of the built environment around her 248 00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:02.620 had been, you know, built by the city. 249 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:06.900 And so I'd like to address my first question 250 00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:08.480 to the architects on the panel. 251 00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:12.020 Um, is it, is it a radical idea to think that, uh, 252 00:22:12.100 --> 00:22:15.860 women might design buildings or, or cities 253 00:22:15.860 --> 00:22:19.460 or contribute to buildings and cities in a different way to men? 254 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:21.140 Is, is there a gender element? 255 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:23.900 Um, Alice, do you want to, do you want to start? 256 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:28.140 Um, it's something that we have been talking 257 00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:29.580 and we have been discussing. 258 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.740 Um, I think it's, 259 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.720 it's clear that female perspective on, 260 00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:36.680 especially in my profession, urban design, 261 00:22:36.860 --> 00:22:39.400 female perspective is different from men perspective. 262 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.840 And I think we can identify few elements 263 00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:47.440 that make this, uh, um, true. 264 00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:49.880 Uh, I don't think it's about necessarily 265 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.580 how we design space, how production of new forms. 266 00:22:53.800 --> 00:22:54.740 It's not that. 267 00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:57.080 It's more about the process, 268 00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:59.200 about the way we perceive the profession, 269 00:23:00.280 --> 00:23:02.420 the discipline of urban design. 270 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.520 And also the objectives of urban design 271 00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:06.420 and landscape architecture. 272 00:23:06.560 --> 00:23:07.820 That's my, my case. 273 00:23:08.620 --> 00:23:13.580 Um, in, we, we do things differently. 274 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:17.580 We, we, we, we do, we, we, we, we, 275 00:23:17.580 --> 00:23:19.940 in the disciplines, we, we approach the discipline 276 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:22.000 in different ways, in the way we, uh, 277 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.040 how we do things and also in the, 278 00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:26.600 in the priorities that we set as, um, 279 00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:27.940 in, in our profession. 280 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:32.300 So I think the first point is important to me is to, 281 00:23:32.380 --> 00:23:32.620 um, I think it's, 282 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.740 to see that, uh, women have, first of all, 283 00:23:34.780 --> 00:23:38.180 a completely different approach to, uh, authorship. 284 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:41.240 Especially in, in urban design and landscape architecture. 285 00:23:41.540 --> 00:23:45.120 So women look more, as Jane said before, 286 00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:48.640 to the collective practice and to a collaboration 287 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.820 into design rather than men. 288 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:53.780 They look more at, uh, self-accomplishment 289 00:23:53.780 --> 00:23:57.440 and, um, individual authorship as a central. 290 00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:58.960 And actually it's true. 291 00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:02.360 We recognize, uh, you know, in, in men, 292 00:24:02.360 --> 00:24:06.960 we acknowledge the importance of styles or individual contribution. 293 00:24:08.540 --> 00:24:12.260 Well, in general, if I look around me, around my colleagues, 294 00:24:12.520 --> 00:24:17.300 the women that I have met in my life, in my traveling around the world, 295 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:22.560 we look more at nurturing the collective, the habitat, 296 00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:25.060 the living habitat as a collective practice. 297 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.100 We look at service to the community, 298 00:24:27.320 --> 00:24:30.580 and it's something that you have touched very well in your book 299 00:24:30.580 --> 00:24:33.400 in showing the work that women did. 300 00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:41.580 So many times we are underrepresented, let's say, in the profession for that reason 301 00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:43.520 because we're working in teams. 302 00:24:43.700 --> 00:24:48.220 We give our contribution to interdisciplinary teams 303 00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:52.620 who are more prone to help the others in solving the problems. 304 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.540 But that doesn't mean that necessarily we don't have impact in our profession. 305 00:24:57.800 --> 00:24:58.760 Actually, the opposite. 306 00:24:58.820 --> 00:25:00.240 It's just a different way. 307 00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:02.060 It's a different way of contributing. 308 00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:13.600 So it's just that the collaborative work is not acknowledged as authorship 309 00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:15.540 and therefore is not accredited. 310 00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:22.640 So my question is maybe what probably we need to start thinking about 311 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.280 our profession as something different. 312 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.120 My point is that cities, as it was said, 313 00:25:30.580 --> 00:25:32.020 are artworks. 314 00:25:32.020 --> 00:25:35.240 But if they are artworks, are collective artworks, 315 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:41.860 are not pieces of production of one mind only. 316 00:25:42.060 --> 00:25:45.280 They have been produced during time 317 00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:48.700 and layered with different people, 318 00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:51.920 the work of different competencies, 319 00:25:52.080 --> 00:25:54.640 different people, different stories and histories. 320 00:25:55.300 --> 00:25:57.460 Kirsten, has that been your experience too? 321 00:25:57.560 --> 00:25:59.820 Is that your view of how cities or how women, 322 00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:00.640 how women impact? 323 00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:07.120 Well, my view probably is that I think different designers design differently 324 00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:09.920 rather than it being a specific gender issue. 325 00:26:10.020 --> 00:26:15.480 And I do think we're talking more about buildings not being of a single authorship. 326 00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:17.000 I think that's really, really important. 327 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:18.460 And I'll touch on that in a second. 328 00:26:18.740 --> 00:26:21.600 And there is no doubt that it's clearly a profession, 329 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:25.460 certainly the architectural profession is one that's dominated by men. 330 00:26:25.560 --> 00:26:29.800 And this was again confirmed this week with the Architectural Practice Board of Society. 331 00:26:29.800 --> 00:26:32.180 South Australia releasing their latest survey, 332 00:26:32.360 --> 00:26:36.520 which we've got 755 registered architects in South Australia, 333 00:26:36.780 --> 00:26:39.100 82% men, 18 women, 334 00:26:39.980 --> 00:26:42.380 which is pretty pronounced, but not unusual. 335 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.180 It's actually similar in the UK, 336 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.920 even though the profession is up about 40,000. 337 00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:48.940 It's 22 to 78. 338 00:26:49.260 --> 00:26:51.360 So it's a universal problem. 339 00:26:51.780 --> 00:26:53.880 Well, those women have been graduating as architects. 340 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:55.080 That's exactly right. 341 00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:57.000 And it hovers around 50-50. 342 00:26:57.100 --> 00:26:58.780 And that's also universal as well. 343 00:26:58.820 --> 00:26:59.400 So that's something. 344 00:26:59.800 --> 00:27:03.620 That women in the profession need to, I think, help address. 345 00:27:04.260 --> 00:27:08.500 But it's also important to think about women in leadership roles within the design team. 346 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.700 So whether they're the project architect, the project lead, 347 00:27:11.780 --> 00:27:15.760 rather than just being the name on the door or the single author. 348 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.000 And we've got a lot of great examples of that here in Adelaide. 349 00:27:19.040 --> 00:27:23.600 So if you think about recent development on North Terrace and even in the west of the city, 350 00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:29.020 if we take Samarie, Kate Russell at Woods Bagot had a huge role to play in the actual, 351 00:27:29.020 --> 00:27:31.120 the shaping of that building. 352 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:38.620 Abby Galvin is the project architect for the UniSA Medical School that we can see coming out of the ground at the moment by Morfitt Street Bridge. 353 00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:42.440 And was also the architect for the Adelaide Uni Braggs building. 354 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:48.120 Sue Phillips and Megan Dwyer were the leads for the Jeffrey Smart building, UniSA again. 355 00:27:48.300 --> 00:27:52.960 Kate Cullity was obviously instrumental in all of the work that's happened outside the front door here. 356 00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:57.200 Sophie Claylin from ARM is the project lead in Festival Plaza. 357 00:27:57.540 --> 00:27:59.000 We've got very senior members. 358 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.500 Members of staff as women at both architecture schools now, which is great. 359 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:10.080 And also the presiding member and deputy chair of the Development Assessment Commission are now also both women. 360 00:28:10.340 --> 00:28:12.960 So we are doing pretty well here. 361 00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:15.440 It's maybe that it's just slightly, it's hidden. 362 00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:22.420 And I get first-hand experience of that in the work that I do every day when we're looking at all of the development that's coming through the city. 363 00:28:22.460 --> 00:28:28.080 It's that there's very strong women and very experienced female architects leading. 364 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.220 And I think that's a really significant development projects in the city. 365 00:28:32.220 --> 00:28:33.860 Yeah, well it's good to hear, isn't it? 366 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:34.880 We just don't know about that. 367 00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:35.820 That's great. 368 00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:43.900 I'm wondering then, you know, we've talked about gender in the building of the buildings and the way the city is put together. 369 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.220 But what about in the sort of governance and leadership? 370 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:50.600 And I wondered if I could ask the other two panellists to talk a little about that. 371 00:28:50.900 --> 00:28:55.100 About whether it makes a difference having women on council. 372 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.920 And in positions where you're making decisions. 373 00:28:58.940 --> 00:28:58.980 And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. 374 00:28:58.980 --> 00:28:59.640 You know, decisions about cities. 375 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:04.000 And we've had some really interesting discussions over at Town Hall. 376 00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:12.100 So I wondered if you could start by just describing some of the experiences when women were in a very clear minority. 377 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:19.200 Because I know when you first joined council, both of you, the numbers of women were much smaller than they are now. 378 00:29:19.420 --> 00:29:21.740 And then tell us how that might have changed over time. 379 00:29:21.820 --> 00:29:24.400 Or just, you know, describe your experience of governance. 380 00:29:26.360 --> 00:29:28.960 Well, I think that women in all walks of life, you know, are very, very important. 381 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.640 And I think that women in all walks of life know that when there's only one in a room, you're treated as if you're unimportant. 382 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.920 And we all talk about how if you have an idea, no one hears it. 383 00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:41.040 And it only gets traction when a man repeats it. 384 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.400 And this is not specific to council or government or anything. 385 00:29:45.560 --> 00:29:47.060 It's just the way we speak. 386 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:52.600 And over the years, I've come to realise that part of it's about the way we present ideas. 387 00:29:53.040 --> 00:29:54.520 I'm not saying that it's our fault. 388 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:58.820 But sometimes I can be too polite. 389 00:29:58.820 --> 00:29:59.940 I know it's hard to believe. 390 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:07.580 But you can sometimes say things in a suggestion, perhaps you could do this or wouldn't it be a good idea. 391 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.960 You can't do that if you're in public life. 392 00:30:10.060 --> 00:30:11.820 You've got to say this is what I think we should do. 393 00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:16.280 Because unless you actually grab authority and power, no one's going to listen to you. 394 00:30:16.780 --> 00:30:21.940 I think the other thing that's evident from my experience in local government, and they were pretty badly behaved. 395 00:30:22.280 --> 00:30:26.340 I mean, I've got small boys, but some of the things those boys did were really appalling. 396 00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.400 It works much better when there are a few more of you. 397 00:30:31.460 --> 00:30:32.720 Because it tips the balance. 398 00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:37.880 And if I can offer any advice, the best way to tip the balance is to be in charge. 399 00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:41.080 If you're in the chair, everyone listens. 400 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:51.780 Well, in a sense, I was going to pick up on that idea that having women who are in a position to make the decision really is a game changer. 401 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:55.880