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<v Chair>All right, I think we might kick it off.

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<v Chair>Hello, everybody. My name's Craig Wilkins,

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<v Chair>and I'm the Chief Executive of the Conservation Council of South Australia.

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<v Chair>Welcome to the 2016 Adelaide Festival of Ideas

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<v Chair>and today's session, which has the intriguing title

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<v Chair>of Sustainable Jobs in Sustainable Communities.

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<v Chair>And I'm proud to say that my organisation,

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<v Chair>which is the state's peak environment body,

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<v Chair>is the partner of this event with the Festival of Ideas.

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<v Chair>I acknowledge that today we are gathered on the traditional lands

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<v Chair>of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains.

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<v Chair>We recognise and respect their cultural heritage,

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<v Chair>beliefs and relationships with the land.

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<v Chair>And we acknowledge that these are of continuing importance

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<v Chair>to the Kaurna people living today

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<v Chair>and that we respect their elders past and present.

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<v Chair>Just a little bit of housekeeping before we begin.

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<v Chair>Please turn your mobile phones to silent.

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<v Chair>Before we begin.

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<v Chair>But don't lose your thumbs and digits.

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<v Chair>There's lots of hashtags and Twitter and Instagram

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<v Chair>and Facebook activity you can be doing

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<v Chair>with the various handles of ADLFOI.

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<v Chair>Also a reminder that unauthorised recordings of any kind

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<v Chair>are not permitted.

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<v Chair>And today's session is being audio recorded

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<v Chair>by those fabulous people at Radio Adelaide

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<v Chair>for broadcast and future podcasts.

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<v Chair>So, today, jobs.

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<v Chair>It seems to be a very constant part of the dialogue

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<v Chair>in Adelaide at the moment.

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<v Chair>And fair enough too.

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<v Chair>The sense of today's session, though,

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<v Chair>is actually going a bit further than just

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<v Chair>what we can do as an immediate response.

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<v Chair>But actually cast our minds a bit further into the future

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<v Chair>and look at where we're going

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<v Chair>and seeing if the choices we make now

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<v Chair>around jobs,

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<v Chair>are actually shaped by the direction we want to go.

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<v Chair>Can we actually shape that direction we're going in?

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<v Chair>And it's actually broader than just looking at jobs on its own.

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<v Chair>Do we need to actually look at what's the relationship

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<v Chair>of jobs to the broader community?

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<v Chair>Do we need to think about concepts to do with time and money

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<v Chair>and what is a productive life?

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<v Chair>What's our role as a citizen?

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<v Chair>And actually see employment

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<v Chair>as nested into that broader conversation.

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<v Chair>So, I am looking forward to a very fascinating conversation

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<v Chair>with three cracking speakers.

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<v Chair>And I'll introduce them to you now.

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<v Chair>Firstly, we have on my immediate left, Professor John Speer.

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<v Chair>He has a long history in economic industry

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<v Chair>and workplace research.

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<v Chair>Formerly just across the road

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<v Chair>at the Australian Workplace Innovation

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<v Chair>and Social Research Centre.

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<v Chair>And he's now at Flinders University

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<v Chair>at the Australian Industrial Transformation Institute.

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<v Chair>Basically trying to sort of work out what we can do

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<v Chair>with the closure of our manufacturing.

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<v Chair>And I've always found with John there's a fantastic calm,

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<v Chair>reassuring wisdom on this issue,

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<v Chair>which is often dominated by shrillness.

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<v Chair>So, thank you John for coming today.

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<v Chair>Next we have Heather.

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<v Chair>Heather has a background originally

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<v Chair>in electrical engineering.

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<v Chair>But she's worked in state government in policy,

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<v Chair>worked in industry.

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<v Chair>And she's also worked in the industry.

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<v Chair>She's also been active in the community sector as well.

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<v Chair>And in particular about the idea of energy ownership,

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<v Chair>energy transition, community energy.

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<v Chair>She's just come back from a whirlwind,

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<v Chair>fantastic trip around the world on a Churchill Fellowship.

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<v Chair>And has come back, I think, bursting with ideas and concepts.

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<v Chair>And her already large brain is just swelling as a result.

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<v Chair>And last of all, the sort of bookend to the glasses,

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<v Chair>wearing baldies, is Sean Williams.

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<v Chair>Who is one of South Australia's most accomplished

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<v Chair>and best known authors.

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<v Chair>An author of over 40 novels and 100 stories,

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<v Chair>including parts of the Star Wars and Doctor Who oeuvre,

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<v Chair>if I can use that word.

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<v Chair>And has that fantastic title

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<v Chair>of number one New York Times best selling author.

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<v Chair>Which I think as an author must be quite a nice.

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<v Chair>He's also a proud South Australian,

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<v Chair>active in supporting emerging authors.

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<v Chair>And other good causes.

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<v Chair>So please welcome our three speakers today.

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<v Chair>And in terms of the format,

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<v Chair>we're gonna keep this very relaxed.

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<v Chair>It won't be a lectern kind of thing.

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<v Chair>It's more of a conversation with us all.

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<v Chair>And looking forward to some great questions at the end.

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<v Chair>So I'll start off by asking John a question.

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<v Chair>Which is, there is clearly a short term crisis

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<v Chair>facing South Australia.

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<v Chair>This week the latest jobs figures,

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<v Chair>showed that we have the highest formal

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<v Chair>unemployment figures in the country.

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<v Chair>So can you get a sense from you first,

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<v Chair>what's going on?

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<v Chair>What's driving it?

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<v Chair>What's the real story behind those numbers?

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, my starting point is that things could be

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<v Prof John Spoehr>a hell of a lot worse.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And I go back to the global financial crisis.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And I recall the Australian government's response

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to the crisis at that critical time in our global history.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>When other nations were facing, you know,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the prospect of double digit unemployment.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Fortunately, we intervened early.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We intervened in a very substantial way.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And that ensured that investment levels stayed up

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and job growth remained reasonably steady.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So Australia became somewhat of an outlier

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<v Prof John Spoehr>internationally, strangely.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And South Australia, which normally suffers very,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>very badly when there are global economic downturns,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>rode this really rough wave much better than I expected

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and most commentators expected.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But nevertheless, it was a rough time,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>principally because of that, you know,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>very high Australian dollar,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>which acted like a wrecking ball

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<v Prof John Spoehr>really on Australian manufacturing.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And of course, at the same time,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>commodity prices went down, demand from China and India

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<v Prof John Spoehr>really put a lot of pressure on our export industry.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And those two factors alone have had a really negative impact

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<v Prof John Spoehr>on parts of the South Australian economy,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>particularly manufacturing employment,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>which is a very significant factor.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And we've lost around about 30,000 manufacturing jobs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the last decade or so.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>That's a lot of jobs.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>On the other hand, we've gained in excess of 25,000,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>30,000 jobs in health, community services and education.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So we've got growth in the services sector,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>but we've got substantial job losses in manufacturing.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But we must remember that the manufacturing sector

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is a very substantial part of the South Australian economy

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and labour market.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There are still around 70,000 manufacturing jobs.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So it's around, you know,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>about the fifth largest employer in the state,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and will remain so.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But in 20...

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, the end of next year,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we've got some serious economic headwinds to face.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The closure of the auto industry

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is probably going to result in around about 12,000 jobs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>lost directly and indirectly.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And we also face the prospect of the Wyala Steelworks closing.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>If that were to happen in a small town like Wyala,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it takes, you know, about half the workforce out.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And could well lead to terminal decline in that very small town.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So employment growth has remained relatively steady.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The unemployment rate relatively low by international standards,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>but high by national standards.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The underemployment rate,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>which we must focus more attention on,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>because, you know, the labour force figures come out every month,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and we always hear that headline figure,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>around about 6.7%.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It got as high as 8% last year for males.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But the underemployment rate is double that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So those people who prefer to work more hours,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>who are hidden unemployed,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>are very substantial in the South Australian economy

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as a consequence of the substantial rise

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in part-time and casual employment in South Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So almost all the jobs that we've seen grow here in South Australia

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<v Prof John Spoehr>have been part-time and casual.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And for males, full-time employment is going backwards.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And that's a very serious problem

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as we go into the closure of the auto industry.

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<v Chair>Thanks, John, for that overview.

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<v Chair>And there are lots of things we can jump into

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<v Chair>around what you've just said.

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<v Chair>But maybe I'll just jump into perhaps giving everyone a chance

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<v Chair>to say a few words first,

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<v Chair>and then we'll go into some of these other underlying themes.

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<v Chair>So, Heather, this is actually the second forum

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<v Chair>on this theme that we've actually held.

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<v Chair>And Heather was part of that as well.

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<v Chair>There was one earlier on in the year,

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<v Chair>and it was a deliberate attempt to start the conversation then

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<v Chair>and continue it today.

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<v Chair>And at that previous conversation around sustainable jobs,

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<v Chair>there was a big focus around energy,

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<v Chair>and clean energy in particular.

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<v Chair>So I'm keen to find out from you, Heather,

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<v Chair>about what is that link between jobs and clean energy?

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<v Chair>What did you discover on your virtual...

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<v Chair>..Churchill Fellowship in terms of what's really happening

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<v Chair>in the rest of the world?

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<v Chair>And has your confidence been shaken a bit

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<v Chair>by the activities of the last few months in South Australia?

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<v Heather Smith>Thanks, Craig.

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<v Heather Smith>And just to recap what I said at the last forum,

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<v Heather Smith>you know, we underestimate how much energy underpins our economy

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<v Heather Smith>and empowers those manufacturing industries.

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<v Heather Smith>And what...

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<v Heather Smith>..I was surprised about as I travelled,

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<v Heather Smith>I went to a lot of regions that are in decline.

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<v Heather Smith>So a lot of community energy is happening out in towns and villages.

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<v Heather Smith>And they've been in decline for ages.

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<v Heather Smith>They used to have booming agricultural economies.

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<v Heather Smith>And obviously, over the years, that's not where the jobs have been.

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<v Heather Smith>So they're very much talking about what they can do in their local economy.

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<v Heather Smith>And I heard a lot of language like,

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<v Heather Smith>we spend $1 million a year on energy in our community.

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<v Heather Smith>We can make that money stay here if we do more locally.

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<v Heather Smith>And so that's one of the big drivers for local energy.

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<v Heather Smith>In the US, someone reminded me

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<v Heather Smith>that for every million dollars spent on solar energy, there's one job.

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<v Heather Smith>But for every million dollars spent on energy efficiency, there's 10 jobs.

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<v Heather Smith>And that energy efficiency savings stays in the community,

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<v Heather Smith>because it stays in the pocket of often low-income people.

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<v Heather Smith>A lot of the energy efficiency programs are targeted at low-income people,

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<v Heather Smith>and they spend that money back in their communities.

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<v Heather Smith>So there was a really strong theme of my trip around local economies.

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<v Heather Smith>After we had a very land-based...

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<v Heather Smith>The jobs were where the land and climate was.

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<v Heather Smith>We went to the jobs where the factories are.

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<v Heather Smith>And when I was in the Highlands,

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<v Heather Smith>I was reminded that they had their Playford era as well.

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<v Heather Smith>They had a big decision

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<v Heather Smith>where all of the people in rural Scotland

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<v Heather Smith>were coming back down to the cities and the jobs.

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<v Heather Smith>And they made some big strategic decisions

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<v Heather Smith>to build hydropower up through the Highlands of Scotland

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<v Heather Smith>and bring the manufacturing up to those places.

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<v Heather Smith>So, again, this theme of energy can underpin

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<v Heather Smith>access to energy can underpin our economy.

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<v Heather Smith>And I also went to some places that are leading.

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<v Heather Smith>And so this is really interesting for me,

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<v Heather Smith>that places have started to define themselves around energy.

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<v Heather Smith>So I got to Samsoe that, over a decade ago,

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<v Heather Smith>won a competition to become Denmark's first 100% renewable energy island

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<v Heather Smith>and admired in this relatively small community,

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<v Heather Smith>their Energy Academy.

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<v Heather Smith>The amount of consultancy and work they pull in from around the world

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<v Heather Smith>because they have put their stake in the ground

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<v Heather Smith>and said, we will be a leader, we will have a community hub,

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<v Heather Smith>we will recognise our energy industries,

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<v Heather Smith>we'll build energy industries out from our leadership

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<v Heather Smith>as a renewable energy sort of place in the world.

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<v Heather Smith>So that sort of welcome to visitors like me,

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<v Heather Smith>and that showcase to the world,

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<v Heather Smith>they saw as an economic advantage.

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<v Heather Smith>So I think I'll...

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<v Heather Smith>Oh, and your question about the blackout, absolutely not.

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<v Heather Smith>You know, I wrote a blog straight after the blackout and said,

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<v Heather Smith>is this our New York moment?

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<v Heather Smith>Because in New York, the driver is microgrids for resilience,

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<v Heather Smith>microgrids for local economics.

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<v Heather Smith>In New York, in the biggest city of the world,

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<v Heather Smith>and just walking distance from Manhattan,

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<v Heather Smith>they had people during Superstorm Sandy

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<v Heather Smith>that were out without power for two weeks, right?

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<v Heather Smith>So they have had their moment.

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<v Heather Smith>Maybe this was Adelaide's moment to go,

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<v Heather Smith>we could do energy so much better than we do at the moment,

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<v Heather Smith>and that's an opportunity for us.

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<v Chair>Thanks. Thanks, Heather.

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<v Chair>Yeah.

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<v Chair>So to Sean.

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<v Chair>Technology, energy, the choices around transportation,

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<v Chair>all those highly technical things,

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<v Chair>other stuff of science fiction and the stuff of your books.

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<v Chair>But often through your books,

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<v Chair>there's actually a more interesting exploration

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<v Chair>of the culture behind that and the choices behind that.

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<v Chair>So I'm keen to get you to sort of, I suppose,

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<v Chair>comment on that sort of examination of culture

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<v Chair>and what do the choices around energy and technology mean

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<v Chair>for those cultural choices?

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<v Chair>And, you know, especially for those...

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<v Chair>the people who are in the industry,

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<v Chair>the concepts we take for granted today, like employment.

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<v Chair>Hmm.

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<v Sean Williams>As a science fiction writer, I'm really interested in technology,

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<v Sean Williams>but not just technology itself.

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<v Sean Williams>Technology in my books is a value-neutral thing

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<v Sean Williams>that exists in a world or changes in a world just like it is today,

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<v Sean Williams>I personally think.

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<v Sean Williams>And my latest series, the Twinmaker books,

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<v Sean Williams>explores the idea of the teleporter, the matter transmitter.

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<v Sean Williams>It's in Star Trek, you know, beam me up, Scotty.

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<v Sean Williams>Which seems like a wonderful, fantastical idea,

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<v Sean Williams>but for me personally and for other writers,

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<v Sean Williams>the more you look into it, the more you realise

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<v Sean Williams>that having access to that kind of technology changes everything.

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<v Sean Williams>And in the course of writing the books,

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<v Sean Williams>I sort of explored the way this one idea,

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<v Sean Williams>which is, when you think about it,

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<v Sean Williams>is kind of the intersection of three present-day technologies.

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<v Sean Williams>It's the scanner, it's the internet and the 3D printer.

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<v Sean Williams>I mean, these are the technologies that are still developing

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<v Sean Williams>and becoming more and more powerful today

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<v Sean Williams>and will potentially have a big impact on, maybe,

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<v Sean Williams>manufacturing, even in their present form.

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<v Sean Williams>But when you take it to the further point,

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<v Sean Williams>where you can stick something into a scanner

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<v Sean Williams>and it can be taken apart at a molecular level

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<v Sean Williams>and then rebuilt from scratch somewhere else exactly as it was,

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<v Sean Williams>whether that's a person or a roast lamb dinner

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<v Sean Williams>or anything you can imagine, anything made of matter,

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<v Sean Williams>that changes culture in really deep and profound ways.

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<v Sean Williams>For instance,

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<v Sean Williams>if you can make a tool, a finely machined tool,

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<v Sean Williams>and then scan it and then make it as many times as you like,

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<v Sean Williams>then there goes your manufacturing industry.

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<v Sean Williams>And if your manufacturing industry goes,

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<v Sean Williams>then there goes all your jobs.

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<v Sean Williams>And if you have a machine that you just can push a button

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<v Sean Williams>and it'll make anything you like,

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<v Sean Williams>a copy of the Mona Lisa or, you know, your sister,

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<v Sean Williams>then there goes the need for money.

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<v Sean Williams>And arguably, identity as well.

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<v Sean Williams>So just this one simple idea that we kind of take for granted

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<v Sean Williams>in the present day in our fiction

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<v Sean Williams>changes the possibility of how our future world would work,

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<v Sean Williams>which leads me to sort of ponder, you know,

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<v Sean Williams>the idea of what is work?

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<v Sean Williams>What is a job? What is money?

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<v Sean Williams>What do these things mean to us as people?

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<v Sean Williams>Because the people in the future are still going to be us.

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<v Sean Williams>They're just going to be us with different technology.

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<v Sean Williams>And I think these kind of stories,

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<v Sean Williams>they're going to give us an opportunity in the present day

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<v Sean Williams>to kind of turn the colour up on present-day problems.

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<v Sean Williams>So what does it mean if 70,000 people

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<v Sean Williams>suddenly don't have jobs in South Australia?

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<v Sean Williams>You know, how do you absorb that kind of impact economically?

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<v Sean Williams>Do you give them all universal income?

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<v Sean Williams>Do you put them on employment lines?

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<v Sean Williams>Do you expect them all to take up creative...

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<v Sean Williams>jobs in the creative industry?

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<v Sean Williams>Or how do you manage that transition?

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<v Sean Williams>And how do you... How do you also...

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<v Sean Williams>I mean, the big problem with my world in Twinmaker books is energy.

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<v Sean Williams>All this stuff that I've just described,

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<v Sean Williams>being able to take people apart, build them, move them around,

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<v Sean Williams>take incredible amounts of energy.

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<v Sean Williams>And in any book that deals with this particular trope,

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<v Sean Williams>there's always a bit of a hand waving around

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<v Sean Williams>where the energy comes from.

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<v Sean Williams>So in my books, they have lots of power satellites

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<v Sean Williams>that are sort of psyching up the sun's rays

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<v Sean Williams>and beaming it down to Earth.

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<v Sean Williams>And at some point, somebody gets hit by one of those rays,

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<v Sean Williams>just to demonstrate that I have thought about

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<v Sean Williams>how powerful those rays must be.

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<v Sean Williams>But, you know, it takes incredible amount of energy

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<v Sean Williams>without which that world doesn't work,

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<v Sean Williams>just like our world doesn't work without energy as well.

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<v Sean Williams>So I'm sitting here with these amazing scientists and thinkers

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<v Sean Williams>who are analysing present-day problems,

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<v Sean Williams>feeling like a little bit of a fraud.

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<v Sean Williams>Although I do know that I think we need

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<v Sean Williams>the cultural metaphor of science fiction

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<v Sean Williams>to help us pass these enormous problems.

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<v Sean Williams>They give us... They give us metaphors to deal with change.

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<v Sean Williams>And they... I like to think that they are kind of...

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<v Sean Williams>They acclimatise us to the idea of change,

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<v Sean Williams>necessary change,

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<v Sean Williams>to become aware of what's inevitably going to happen.

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<v Sean Williams>But I think there's also the science of psychology as well

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<v Sean Williams>that is just as important,

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<v Sean Williams>whether you define psychology as a science.

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<v Heather Smith>And they explore the cultural issues too, don't they?

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<v Heather Smith>So that, you know, in my journey,

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<v Heather Smith>I think we've got the technology sussed.

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<v Heather Smith>And the cultural issues are so...

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<v Heather Smith>The socio-technical transition,

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<v Heather Smith>the idea that we have social systems

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<v Heather Smith>wrapped around our technical systems

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<v Heather Smith>that have to transform as well

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<v Heather Smith>is far more challenging for someone

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<v Heather Smith>who's done an engineering degree.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>That's right.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>One scary statistic that you're probably hearing

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<v Prof John Spoehr>going around at the moment

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is that around 40% to 45% of jobs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>are susceptible to automation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and particularly as a consequence

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of great advances in artificial intelligence.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Now, that's pretty scary.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We can talk a little bit more about that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>I have a more sort of sober view about that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>I don't think it's going to...

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's going to transpire in that way

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<v Prof John Spoehr>because there are all sorts of reasons for that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But you'll probably hear more about that

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<v Prof John Spoehr>from Tim Dunlop, I think, this afternoon at 4 o'clock.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So it's all happening here at Festival of Ideas.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We are talking about driverless cars

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and in terms of a taxi driver job is potentially...

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<v Chair>Yeah.

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<v Chair>So, it's interesting, Sean,

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<v Chair>you were saying about that sort of forecast,

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<v Chair>forecasting the future

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<v Chair>or trying to imagine what that would look like.

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<v Chair>And I'm always struck by so much of that sort of, you know,

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<v Chair>tween fiction or that sort of young adult fiction.

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<v Chair>When they talk about concepts like, you know, climate change

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<v Chair>or a changing climate,

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<v Chair>it is often quite a dire and dark sort of future they're imagining,

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<v Chair>which I have sort of questions around that sort of...

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<v Chair>Are we sort of almost forecasting that kind of negativity...

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<v Chair>LAUGHTER

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<v Chair>..into the future?

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<v Chair>But with that sort of question of a changing climate,

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<v Chair>I mean, is there actually a jobs impact

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<v Chair>in terms of our robust response to climate change?

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<v Chair>And is that something that we should actually be looking at right now?

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<v Chair>I'm not sure. Who wants to...?

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, there absolutely is.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>I mean, a robust response to climate change,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>including a whole range of adaptation and mitigation measures,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>could generate as many as 500,000 jobs,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>half a million jobs in a relatively short period of time.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And some of the numbers I've been looking at recently

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<v Prof John Spoehr>suggest around 130,000 jobs could be created in South Australia

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as a consequence of a robust response to climate change

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that included a range of mitigation and adaptation measures.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But, of course, that requires the right sort of policy environment

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to stimulate that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But a lot of that's already happening.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's already happening.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We just need to put in place the policy measures to accelerate that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So it's not as if there's not enough work to be done.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There's lots of work to be done.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a question of whether or not we invest in it

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and whether or not we pay for it.

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<v Heather Smith>And they say, you know,

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<v Heather Smith>South Australia has a great water industry,

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<v Heather Smith>innovative water industry, like Israel,

447
00:21:18.280 --> 00:21:20.460
<v Heather Smith>because those are two regions of the world

448
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.460
<v Heather Smith>that are incredibly challenged by water.

449
00:21:23.620 --> 00:21:28.580
<v Heather Smith>So if we really do grapple with our challenges,

450
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.580
<v Heather Smith>there is that turn it into opportunities.

451
00:21:31.580 --> 00:21:33.300
<v Heather Smith>I know it's easier to say.

452
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.980
<v Heather Smith>I'm quite struck by our climate will change.

453
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:40.080
<v Heather Smith>And it will become more challenging.

454
00:21:41.060 --> 00:21:45.800
<v Heather Smith>And part of my journey has been about how rooted in place we are.

455
00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:50.840
<v Heather Smith>So people do move place at the extremes.

456
00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:55.980
<v Heather Smith>My interpreter in Japan was living in a completely different region

457
00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:58.260
<v Heather Smith>because his house had got destroyed by the tsunami.

458
00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:05.280
<v Heather Smith>But most of the time, an incredible number of people are wedded to place.

459
00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:06.680
<v Heather Smith>We care about this place.

460
00:22:06.780 --> 00:22:08.180
<v Heather Smith>We care about the people.

461
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.380
<v Heather Smith>Our people are here at the moment.

462
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.800
<v Heather Smith>And so we invest in our time and effort

463
00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:16.580
<v Heather Smith>in making Adelaide a successful city,

464
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.560
<v Heather Smith>even if it becomes a hotter city or a wetter city.

465
00:22:21.320 --> 00:22:22.920
<v Heather Smith>You know, I think...

466
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.680
<v Heather Smith>And let's face it, we have a fantastic climate

467
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.460
<v Heather Smith>compared to most places in the world.

468
00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:31.040
<v Heather Smith>So let's hope it's still fairly fantastic.

469
00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:31.760
<v Sean Williams>That's right.

470
00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:34.680
<v Sean Williams>There's a map online where you can look at what the coastline will look like

471
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.180
<v Sean Williams>if you raise the water level by X number.

472
00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:38.320
<v Sean Williams>And you can see that it's about 6 metres.

473
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:40.000
<v Sean Williams>And Adelaide looks pretty good.

474
00:22:40.100 --> 00:22:41.520
<v Sean Williams>We're not going to get flooded.

475
00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:43.460
<v Sean Williams>We might stifle in the heat.

476
00:22:43.580 --> 00:22:46.080
<v Sean Williams>I think it's easy to imagine these sort of catastrophic futures.

477
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:50.100
<v Sean Williams>And I think it's healthy in a way to imagine the worst-case scenarios.

478
00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:54.700
<v Sean Williams>So that way, when something not quite that bad happens, actually occurs,

479
00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:57.600
<v Sean Williams>we go, oh, well, it wasn't as bad as in X.

480
00:22:57.800 --> 00:22:59.120
<v Sean Williams>You know, we still have...

481
00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:01.960
<v Sean Williams>We can move from this job to that job,

482
00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:04.440
<v Sean Williams>or we still have food, or my family's still alive.

483
00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:06.240
<v Sean Williams>We're not cannibals. You know?

484
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:08.880
<v Sean Williams>But I think it's fascinating from a narrative point of view

485
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.920
<v Sean Williams>that, on the one hand, we have automation increasing,

486
00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:16.100
<v Sean Williams>which could put vast amounts of our population out of work,

487
00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:17.520
<v Sean Williams>out of traditional work, potentially.

488
00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:18.800
<v Sean Williams>Potentially.

489
00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:20.400
<v Sean Williams>You know, who knows how it's going to pan out?

490
00:23:20.540 --> 00:23:21.700
<v Sean Williams>It's happening very quickly.

491
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:23.660
<v Sean Williams>It's a fascinating thing to study.

492
00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:25.880
<v Sean Williams>But at the same time, we have the climate changing,

493
00:23:26.060 --> 00:23:28.760
<v Sean Williams>the climate change creating opportunity for new jobs.

494
00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:32.700
<v Sean Williams>So just at the time we will need smart, intelligent, hard-working people

495
00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:34.780
<v Sean Williams>to move into this new sector

496
00:23:34.780 --> 00:23:38.080
<v Sean Williams>to create a new lifestyle for people,

497
00:23:38.180 --> 00:23:40.780
<v Sean Williams>there will be people leaving jobs that no longer exist, potentially.

498
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.600
<v Sean Williams>So I can see, as long as there's an ability to move,

499
00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:48.080
<v Sean Williams>if there's mobility between the workplaces,

500
00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:50.380
<v Sean Williams>then it may work out very well.

501
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.440
<v Sean Williams>And it strikes me, if I believed there was an author,

502
00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:55.040
<v Sean Williams>to reality, I'd think, this is a little bit convenient, you know?

503
00:23:55.900 --> 00:23:57.880
<v Sean Williams>We need X. Oh, here it is, you know?

504
00:23:58.740 --> 00:23:59.720
<v Sean Williams>Thanks very much, God.

505
00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:04.680
<v Chair>So let's perhaps tease that out a bit.

506
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:05.840
<v Chair>I'd like to go a bit further about in terms of...

507
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:10.480
<v Chair>What are the sort of the sectors, the areas,

508
00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:13.580
<v Chair>the parts of our society

509
00:24:13.580 --> 00:24:17.660
<v Chair>which you guys think the jobs of the future will come from?

510
00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:19.280
<v Chair>Is it health? Is it education?

511
00:24:19.580 --> 00:24:21.980
<v Chair>Is it energy? Is it transport? Is it culture?

512
00:24:22.600 --> 00:24:23.560
<v Chair>Where's it come from?

513
00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:27.700
<v Chair>And also, who will do the driving, the main driving?

514
00:24:28.100 --> 00:24:32.360
<v Chair>Is it the sort of smart techs, the Googles and the Facebooks?

515
00:24:32.360 --> 00:24:35.260
<v Chair>Is it government? Is it universities?

516
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:37.180
<v Chair>Is it the community sector?

517
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:39.260
<v Chair>Where will actually...

518
00:24:39.260 --> 00:24:40.800
<v Chair>Where will those big decisions be made

519
00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:42.140
<v Chair>and who will actually be driving it?

520
00:24:42.620 --> 00:24:43.980
<v Chair>It's a modest question, isn't it?

521
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:45.400
<v Chair>LAUGHTER

522
00:24:47.340 --> 00:24:49.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>I'll be talking more about that this afternoon.

523
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:52.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>Look, a starting point for that

524
00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:57.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>is that there's relatively rapid growth in those jobs

525
00:24:57.540 --> 00:24:59.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>which are so-called knowledge-intensive creative,

526
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>those jobs that...

527
00:25:02.360 --> 00:25:04.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>..are relatively routine,

528
00:25:04.560 --> 00:25:06.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>are more subject to being automated

529
00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:09.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>or replaced by artificial intelligence,

530
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>although increasingly,

531
00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:15.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>artificial intelligence can also replace quite complex tasks.

532
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:20.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>Having said that, my view is that there are many thousands of jobs

533
00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:22.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>that are going to be generated in a whole range of sectors

534
00:25:22.780 --> 00:25:24.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>as a consequence of a few things.

535
00:25:24.260 --> 00:25:27.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>Let's just take demographic change, for example.

536
00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:30.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>So, while we think about ageing as a cost to society,

537
00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:31.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>what we don't really appreciate

538
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>is actually it's a major driver

539
00:25:34.040 --> 00:25:36.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>of changing demand for goods and services,

540
00:25:37.260 --> 00:25:38.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>particularly in manufacturing.

541
00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:40.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>I know that one of the fastest-growing industries

542
00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:43.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>is the medical devices and assistive technologies industries.

543
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>It requires very creative people,

544
00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:48.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>researchers working together with manufacturers and service providers

545
00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:53.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>on all sorts of novel goods and services,

546
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>and it's labour-intensive at the services end.

547
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:59.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>This is one of the fastest-growing industries

548
00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:00.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the Asia-Pacific region,

549
00:26:00.620 --> 00:26:01.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>around about $1 trillion.

550
00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:01.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>So, it's...

551
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:02.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>$1 trillion worth of savings

552
00:26:02.760 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>washing throughout East Asia

553
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>that will flow into the purchase

554
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:10.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>of a range of goods and services

555
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>designed to help you age well, if you like,

556
00:26:14.840 --> 00:26:16.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>to empower you,

557
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:17.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>to put you in a position

558
00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:19.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>where you have a greater degree of independence.

559
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>In terms of climate change, we've touched on that,

560
00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:26.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>and I've sort of coined this term, the adaptive economy.

561
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>I believe that there's enormous benefits

562
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.800
<v Prof John Spoehr>that we could derive

563
00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:36.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>from a much more robust, positive response to climate change

564
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:37.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the way that Heather's described it.

565
00:26:37.860 --> 00:26:40.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, turn it round as a major driver of innovation,

566
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:42.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>using government expenditure

567
00:26:42.800 --> 00:26:45.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>to create knowledge-intensive goods and services

568
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>in response to climate change.

569
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:50.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>And in so many other areas,

570
00:26:50.280 --> 00:26:51.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>the education sector, of course,

571
00:26:51.760 --> 00:26:52.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>is the one I'm involved in,

572
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:55.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>is one of the most rapidly-growing sectors in Australia

573
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:57.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>and will probably continue to be so,

574
00:26:57.780 --> 00:26:59.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>as the demand from overseas

575
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>to undertake Western education is sustained.

576
00:27:03.260 --> 00:27:05.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>That's not sustainable forever, I don't think.

577
00:27:05.780 --> 00:27:07.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>There might indeed be a higher education boom

578
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>that ends up in bust.

579
00:27:08.800 --> 00:27:09.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>I don't know.

580
00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:13.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>But I think there are an enormous range of opportunities

581
00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:18.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>that will require government to play a lead role in.

582
00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:21.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>And we don't have what I'd regard

583
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:24.400
<v Prof John Spoehr>as coherent economic industry policy in this country,

584
00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:26.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>and we desperately need it at the local level.

585
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:29.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>While we have some impact over how we can shape that,

586
00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:29.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>but we don't have...

587
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>The lion's share of policy settings must...

588
00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:36.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>..are dependent, I should say,

589
00:27:36.600 --> 00:27:39.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>on national government intervening.

590
00:27:39.340 --> 00:27:39.500
<v Speaker 5>Mm.

591
00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:43.820
<v Heather Smith>I've been looking a little bit further over the horizon.

592
00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:46.060
<v Heather Smith>So one of the reflections of my trip, as I said,

593
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.120
<v Heather Smith>was the jobs used to be on the land,

594
00:27:48.340 --> 00:27:51.260
<v Heather Smith>then they used to be where the manufacturers were,

595
00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:53.100
<v Heather Smith>then I got to Japan,

596
00:27:53.620 --> 00:27:55.880
<v Heather Smith>and the movement of people,

597
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Heather Smith>it's like the jobs are where the people are.

598
00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:58.920
<v Heather Smith>And that's...

599
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:01.260
<v Heather Smith>That's at the heart of Adelaide's decline,

600
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.020
<v Heather Smith>is that the jobs are in Sydney and Melbourne.

601
00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Heather Smith>You know, people are moving out of the country into the cities,

602
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:09.620
<v Heather Smith>out of the little cities into the big cities.

603
00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:11.380
<v Heather Smith>So what comes next?

604
00:28:11.800 --> 00:28:13.780
<v Heather Smith>You know, we've seen those three transitions,

605
00:28:14.060 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Heather Smith>boom, boom, boom.

606
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.680
<v Heather Smith>Let's work towards something that works for Adelaide,

607
00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:19.560
<v Heather Smith>doesn't work for Adelaide.

608
00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:21.280
<v Heather Smith>What is...

609
00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:24.660
<v Heather Smith>How can you do the jobs are where the lifestyle is?

610
00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:25.600
<v Heather Smith>Right?

611
00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:27.900
<v Heather Smith>Because that's our sales pitch.

612
00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:30.100
<v Heather Smith>Well, maybe you do have to move...

613
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:34.460
<v Heather Smith>..blend the paid economy and the unpaid economy.

614
00:28:34.700 --> 00:28:36.200
<v Heather Smith>Maybe you do have to say,

615
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.860
<v Heather Smith>Adelaide, we only have to work 30 hours a week

616
00:28:39.860 --> 00:28:44.220
<v Heather Smith>and work out how to support our society for the rest of the time.

617
00:28:44.320 --> 00:28:46.700
<v Heather Smith>And it won't be that we work 30 hours a week.

618
00:28:46.800 --> 00:28:49.060
<v Heather Smith>It would be 30 hours a week for money

619
00:28:49.060 --> 00:28:51.900
<v Heather Smith>and an abundance of hours

620
00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:54.360
<v Heather Smith>to spend on other things that we value

621
00:28:54.360 --> 00:28:56.760
<v Heather Smith>and other things that we want to produce in our lives

622
00:28:56.760 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Heather Smith>for community value, for personal value, family value.

623
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:06.060
<v Heather Smith>So I find it really interesting that we should be well positioned.

624
00:29:06.100 --> 00:29:07.800
<v Heather Smith>We're going to have an abundance of energy,

625
00:29:07.900 --> 00:29:11.460
<v Heather Smith>which means we can have the teletransporters of the future, perhaps.

626
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.140
<v Heather Smith>So what can we do here?

627
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.580
<v Heather Smith>Because, as I said before, we care about this place

628
00:29:18.580 --> 00:29:20.880
<v Heather Smith>and we'd love to make it really work for us

629
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:22.780
<v Heather Smith>and our families and our grandchildren.

630
00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:25.180
<v Sean Williams>Yeah, I'd like to live in an Adelaide

631
00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:26.440
<v Sean Williams>where it was Mad March all the time.

632
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:26.740
<v Sean Williams>Yeah.

633
00:29:26.760 --> 00:29:29.040
<v Sean Williams>Except maybe without the race.

634
00:29:29.260 --> 00:29:30.340
<v Sean Williams>That's my personal bias.

635
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:30.960
<v Sean Williams>Mad October?

636
00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:31.640
<v Sean Williams>Sorry?

637
00:29:31.780 --> 00:29:32.500
<v Sean Williams>Mad October.

638
00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:33.460
<v Sean Williams>Mad October, yeah.

639
00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:35.720
<v Sean Williams>Because I think that one of the great things about Mad March

640
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:37.660
<v Sean Williams>is that Adelaide is full of this immense creativity

641
00:29:37.660 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Sean Williams>that people flock from all over the world to be part of.

642
00:29:40.620 --> 00:29:44.760
<v Sean Williams>And it's not just because we have a big opera

643
00:29:44.760 --> 00:29:46.080
<v Sean Williams>or it's not just because of a big race.

644
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.580
<v Sean Williams>It's because the whole vibe of the town changes completely

645
00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:50.780
<v Sean Williams>and it becomes really extraordinarily vibrant.

646
00:29:51.120 --> 00:29:54.240
<v Sean Williams>And the optimist in me thinks that, you know,

647
00:29:54.280 --> 00:29:56.000
<v Sean Williams>if we did have a low working week,

648
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.540
<v Sean Williams>people could still live comfortably

649
00:29:57.540 --> 00:30:01.580
<v Sean Williams>and had space and time and energy to be creative and innovative

650
00:30:01.580 --> 00:30:05.300
<v Sean Williams>in their vocational life as opposed to their work life

651
00:30:05.300 --> 00:30:06.620
<v Sean Williams>if they're not the same thing

652
00:30:06.620 --> 00:30:08.860
<v Sean Williams>and they aren't the same thing for most people.

653
00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:12.760
<v Sean Williams>And I think the tipping point for me,

654
00:30:12.840 --> 00:30:13.980
<v Sean Williams>again, looking over the horizon,

655
00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:18.880
<v Sean Williams>might be the development of not just an ageing sector

656
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:20.760
<v Sean Williams>that can live better

657
00:30:21.260 --> 00:30:23.400
<v Sean Williams>but live as well as the young sector does.

658
00:30:23.560 --> 00:30:25.300
<v Sean Williams>And this is very speculative.

659
00:30:25.300 --> 00:30:28.160
<v Sean Williams>We don't quite know what the medical advance will be

660
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.100
<v Sean Williams>that will mean that somebody who's 80

661
00:30:30.100 --> 00:30:33.180
<v Sean Williams>is as healthy and as creative as somebody who's 20.

662
00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:36.080
<v Sean Williams>But, you know, some people say it's coming.

663
00:30:36.220 --> 00:30:38.720
<v Sean Williams>Some people say it could be with us in 20 years.

664
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:43.260
<v Sean Williams>And if that happens, then that creates an enormous class of people

665
00:30:43.260 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Sean Williams>who are at the moment dependent

666
00:30:46.460 --> 00:30:49.760
<v Sean Williams>but have an enormous amount of wisdom

667
00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:54.040
<v Sean Williams>which is absolutely priceless.

668
00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:57.780
<v Sean Williams>And if those people become even more active in the community

669
00:30:57.780 --> 00:31:00.420
<v Sean Williams>and in the economy and in the artistic sector

670
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:01.860
<v Sean Williams>and the creative sector than they are now,

671
00:31:02.020 --> 00:31:03.500
<v Sean Williams>I think that changes everything.

672
00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:06.860
<v Sean Williams>If somebody can live to be 100 and be creative and engaged

673
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:08.940
<v Sean Williams>right up to the moment of their death,

674
00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:11.720
<v Sean Williams>who knows what Adelaide will look like?

675
00:31:11.780 --> 00:31:13.140
<v Sean Williams>Who knows what anywhere will look like?

676
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:14.740
<v Sean Williams>Sorry, I'm getting passionate and bashing the microphone.

677
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.040
<v Sean Williams>Because you get...

678
00:31:17.560 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Sean Williams>I think the general consensus view

679
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:21.940
<v Sean Williams>is that somebody who's old is conservative

680
00:31:21.940 --> 00:31:23.720
<v Sean Williams>and doesn't want things to change.

681
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:25.680
<v Sean Williams>But I think if somebody is 40

682
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.500
<v Sean Williams>and has 60 years of healthy life ahead of them,

683
00:31:28.540 --> 00:31:31.000
<v Sean Williams>I think they're going to be more embracing of changes.

684
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:35.520
<v Sean Williams>And somebody who's 80 who has 60 adult years of experience

685
00:31:35.520 --> 00:31:37.540
<v Sean Williams>and still another 20 years to live,

686
00:31:38.380 --> 00:31:40.500
<v Sean Williams>you know, what will they be open to?

687
00:31:40.580 --> 00:31:43.560
<v Sean Williams>What will they think of that somebody who's 20 or 30 or 40 won't think of?

688
00:31:43.620 --> 00:31:48.400
<v Sean Williams>And I think that is potentially an amazing future for everywhere.

689
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.620
<v Heather Smith>And there's plenty of work to do, isn't there?

690
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:52.720
<v Heather Smith>You know, the theme of this panel

691
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:54.520
<v Heather Smith>is sustainability.

692
00:31:54.780 --> 00:31:57.280
<v Heather Smith>We are so far away from sustainability

693
00:31:57.280 --> 00:31:59.640
<v Heather Smith>and making things better.

694
00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:02.600
<v Heather Smith>So the work is there to be done.

695
00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:07.520
<v Heather Smith>One of the other things that resonated on my trip

696
00:32:07.520 --> 00:32:11.620
<v Heather Smith>was how much community energy represents people

697
00:32:11.620 --> 00:32:14.240
<v Heather Smith>building the solutions that are right for them.

698
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.700
<v Heather Smith>So you sit there and go,

699
00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:18.220
<v Heather Smith>why do you have solar hot water

700
00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:21.480
<v Heather Smith>to run your district heating plant in the middle of summer

701
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:22.700
<v Heather Smith>when you might not need it?

702
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:22.820
<v Heather Smith>Why do you need heating?

703
00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:25.700
<v Heather Smith>But of course in the north of Denmark they do need heating.

704
00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:30.360
<v Heather Smith>So this idea that we all have unique needs

705
00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:34.820
<v Heather Smith>and there's value in building the solutions for us,

706
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.600
<v Heather Smith>certainly in energy world it translates,

707
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.800
<v Heather Smith>yes, we're going to get technology from all over the world,

708
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:44.340
<v Heather Smith>but there is a level of designing our own solutions

709
00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:47.060
<v Heather Smith>will give us the most appropriate solutions

710
00:32:47.060 --> 00:32:49.880
<v Heather Smith>and that has to happen at a more local scale.

711
00:32:50.120 --> 00:32:52.700
<v Heather Smith>So we have challenges.

712
00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:53.680
<v Heather Smith>We have challenges in South Australia

713
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:55.160
<v Heather Smith>that other places don't have.

714
00:32:55.280 --> 00:32:59.700
<v Heather Smith>They don't have these long grids out on the edge of the system.

715
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.840
<v Heather Smith>We have things that we could tackle.

716
00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:06.580
<v Heather Smith>Let's grapple with our unique solutions.

717
00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:10.420
<v Heather Smith>And so the whole jobs and sustainability demands,

718
00:33:10.540 --> 00:33:13.720
<v Heather Smith>to some extent, some real local engagement

719
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:16.220
<v Heather Smith>with what we need to make the place better.

720
00:33:16.220 --> 00:33:18.280
<v Sean Williams>Somebody who has lived here for 60 years

721
00:33:18.280 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Sean Williams>and is engaged in that sector

722
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Sean Williams>can bring that experience to the problem.

723
00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:24.800
<v Sean Williams>And in a way also that artificial intelligence might not too,

724
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.620
<v Sean Williams>because depending on the data you pump into a neural network or an AI,

725
00:33:28.860 --> 00:33:31.720
<v Sean Williams>you may get a global solution that absolutely does not work here.

726
00:33:32.260 --> 00:33:33.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>Sorry, I've talked too much.

727
00:33:33.260 --> 00:33:33.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>No, no, no.

728
00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:35.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>What's not well understood

729
00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:39.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>is the sustainability benefits of the four-day week,

730
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:40.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>where it's been applied,

731
00:33:41.100 --> 00:33:43.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>and it hasn't been applied in too many places in the world,

732
00:33:43.060 --> 00:33:45.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>but Sweden are experimenting with it,

733
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.400
<v Prof John Spoehr>France experimented with it for a while.

734
00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:49.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>It has enormous environmental benefits

735
00:33:49.780 --> 00:33:51.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>because it reduces travel times,

736
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>it reduces congestion in cities.

737
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:56.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>Billions of dollars are saved

738
00:33:56.500 --> 00:34:00.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>as a consequence of reducing working hours.

739
00:34:00.520 --> 00:34:02.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>So it's not understood in those terms

740
00:34:02.060 --> 00:34:04.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>and we need to rethink, I think, that.

741
00:34:04.100 --> 00:34:08.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>Perhaps Adelaide could become the first part of Australia

742
00:34:08.060 --> 00:34:08.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>to have the four-day week.

743
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:10.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>That might attract a lot of people, I think.

744
00:34:11.660 --> 00:34:12.100
<v Sean Williams>Yeah.

745
00:34:13.420 --> 00:34:15.620
<v Heather Smith>And I'd like to go back to artificial intelligence

746
00:34:15.620 --> 00:34:17.880
<v Heather Smith>because I want to tackle you, Sean,

747
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:20.460
<v Heather Smith>on no values in technology.

748
00:34:21.020 --> 00:34:21.460
<v Heather Smith>Uh-oh.

749
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Heather Smith>Technology is rich with the values

750
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:26.720
<v Heather Smith>of the designers that designed it.

751
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:28.820
<v Heather Smith>And we had an example yesterday

752
00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.400
<v Heather Smith>where someone who was working in Aboriginal communities

753
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.120
<v Heather Smith>pointed out that the smartphone has password locks

754
00:34:36.120 --> 00:34:39.920
<v Heather Smith>which are targeted at an individual ownership,

755
00:34:40.100 --> 00:34:44.980
<v Heather Smith>not a kinship-sharing culture, right?

756
00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:48.360
<v Heather Smith>So the culture's embedded in the technology

757
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.220
<v Heather Smith>and the way it's designed.

758
00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:51.160
<v Heather Smith>And you sit there going,

759
00:34:51.160 --> 00:34:53.740
<v Heather Smith>OK, I'm catching Uber.

760
00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:56.600
<v Heather Smith>Uber's fantastic in San Francisco, works the trick.

761
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.640
<v Heather Smith>What happens when we get to the edge of this system?

762
00:35:00.120 --> 00:35:03.320
<v Heather Smith>And who decides which taxi driver,

763
00:35:03.600 --> 00:35:04.540
<v Heather Smith>because that's all they are,

764
00:35:04.660 --> 00:35:06.840
<v Heather Smith>is taxi drivers with a better platform,

765
00:35:07.060 --> 00:35:09.060
<v Heather Smith>which taxi driver gets the work

766
00:35:09.060 --> 00:35:11.180
<v Heather Smith>and which customers have to wait the longest?

767
00:35:11.660 --> 00:35:12.820
<v Heather Smith>An algorithm.

768
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:14.360
<v Heather Smith>God damn it.

769
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:16.880
<v Heather Smith>I want democracy to have a say

770
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Heather Smith>in how the fairness of this system works.

771
00:35:19.940 --> 00:35:21.140
<v Heather Smith>I don't want someone who says,

772
00:35:21.140 --> 00:35:22.200
<v Heather Smith>I'm the one who designed an algorithm

773
00:35:22.200 --> 00:35:23.940
<v Heather Smith>and is busy tweaking it

774
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:26.740
<v Heather Smith>to dictate my democracy.

775
00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:29.920
<v Heather Smith>So I think there's a really interesting idea there

776
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:33.160
<v Heather Smith>where we have to remain masters of the systems

777
00:35:33.160 --> 00:35:36.660
<v Heather Smith>and there's work to be done in that.

778
00:35:36.940 --> 00:35:41.120
<v Chair>And those algorithms dominate which feeds you...

779
00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:43.740
<v Chair>Like, which bits of information you get through your Facebook feeds

780
00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:45.220
<v Chair>or other parts of social media.

781
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:47.360
<v Chair>And I noticed, Sean's smiling,

782
00:35:47.420 --> 00:35:49.600
<v Chair>in terms of in your Twinmaker book,

783
00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:53.820
<v Chair>those algorithms make choices around how people are recreated

784
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:57.800
<v Chair>once they go into that transmission to a different place.

785
00:35:58.360 --> 00:35:59.060
<v Chair>Oh, that's right.

786
00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:00.280
<v Sean Williams>I mean, I think you're absolutely right.

787
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.560
<v Sean Williams>I mean, it partly depends on how you define technology.

788
00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:04.180
<v Sean Williams>Yes.

789
00:36:04.580 --> 00:36:06.660
<v Sean Williams>So, you know, and how it's applied

790
00:36:06.660 --> 00:36:09.940
<v Sean Williams>is where the technology and the application,

791
00:36:11.140 --> 00:36:12.240
<v Sean Williams>people get in the way.

792
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:13.820
<v Sean Williams>And people always seem to stuff things up.

793
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:17.660
<v Sean Williams>And, you know, by not thinking, by not thinking about passwords.

794
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.580
<v Sean Williams>But then, you know, then they might encounter that problem.

795
00:36:19.600 --> 00:36:21.860
<v Sean Williams>And they add an option to have a password or not to have a password.

796
00:36:22.080 --> 00:36:23.740
<v Sean Williams>And then maybe that solves that problem.

797
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:25.160
<v Sean Williams>But it creates another problem for somewhere else.

798
00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:27.740
<v Sean Williams>And what... I think one of the...

799
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.720
<v Sean Williams>There are two core things that drive science fiction.

800
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:31.860
<v Sean Williams>One is the sense of wonder.

801
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Sean Williams>You know, wouldn't it be fantastic?

802
00:36:33.020 --> 00:36:34.820
<v Sean Williams>Wouldn't it be amazing if nobody had to work

803
00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:36.220
<v Sean Williams>and everybody could be graded for 150?

804
00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:37.200
<v Sean Williams>You know, that'd be awesome.

805
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.880
<v Sean Williams>But then the other thing is the unintended consequence.

806
00:36:41.100 --> 00:36:43.580
<v Sean Williams>And life, of course, is full of unintended consequences.

807
00:36:43.660 --> 00:36:47.600
<v Sean Williams>So when you build any kind of machine

808
00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:49.580
<v Sean Williams>that fixes one problem,

809
00:36:49.600 --> 00:36:51.540
<v Sean Williams>it'll create at least one other problem.

810
00:36:51.740 --> 00:36:53.900
<v Sean Williams>Either immediately or down the track, you know?

811
00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:55.940
<v Sean Williams>It's finding those...

812
00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:58.520
<v Heather Smith>And to unpick and work through those other problems,

813
00:36:58.600 --> 00:37:03.380
<v Heather Smith>you need this messy, time-consuming thing called democracy.

814
00:37:03.660 --> 00:37:04.140
<v Heather Smith>Yes.

815
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:07.440
<v Heather Smith>And when I worked in state government, my boss used to say...

816
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.500
<v Heather Smith>I used to say, the noise, I'm being swallowed by the machine.

817
00:37:10.560 --> 00:37:12.280
<v Heather Smith>I have to write ministerials.

818
00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:14.940
<v Heather Smith>And she'd say, that's not noise, that's democracy.

819
00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:17.100
<v Heather Smith>That's the price we pay

820
00:37:17.580 --> 00:37:19.580
<v Heather Smith>to have a system that functions.

821
00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:21.140
<v Heather Smith>And that system fairly represents people.

822
00:37:21.340 --> 00:37:23.220
<v Heather Smith>So there's work there.

823
00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.880
<v Heather Smith>You know, we know that the machines can't replace

824
00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:29.780
<v Heather Smith>any of our connective jobs,

825
00:37:30.020 --> 00:37:32.060
<v Heather Smith>our social, our caring jobs,

826
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.880
<v Heather Smith>because we want to be cared for by a person.

827
00:37:35.020 --> 00:37:38.760
<v Heather Smith>They can augment our capacity wonderfully, you know?

828
00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:41.660
<v Heather Smith>But we should all have technology sitting...

829
00:37:41.660 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Heather Smith>..this automation AI sitting on our shoulders,

830
00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:48.060
<v Heather Smith>making us ten times... being able to be ten of us.

831
00:37:48.060 --> 00:37:49.580
<v Heather Smith>You know, what a wonderful idea.

832
00:37:49.740 --> 00:37:53.820
<v Heather Smith>I can do everything I want to do ten times as fast, sort of thing.

833
00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.520
<v Heather Smith>But that connective stuff,

834
00:37:57.140 --> 00:38:00.000
<v Heather Smith>how we determine our values in society is part of that.

835
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Chair>Mm. Now, I bet you're busting with questions, Yvaron.

836
00:38:04.020 --> 00:38:05.680
<v Chair>So if you do want to ask any questions,

837
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.220
<v Chair>please head towards the microphone,

838
00:38:07.340 --> 00:38:09.280
<v Chair>which we set up in the centre of the room.

839
00:38:09.620 --> 00:38:14.660
<v Chair>But as we do that, though, I'm keen to ask one last question for me,

840
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.280
<v Chair>which is, I suppose, picks up on this idea

841
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.080
<v Chair>that almost...it felt like a number-plate slogan

842
00:38:21.080 --> 00:38:22.500
<v Chair>of the lifestyle state,

843
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:27.800
<v Chair>that what is or what should be our state's story?

844
00:38:28.060 --> 00:38:31.880
<v Chair>If you look at our tradition of...

845
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.120
<v Chair>We were founded in terms of...

846
00:38:34.120 --> 00:38:35.840
<v Chair>The SA colony was...

847
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:40.100
<v Chair>..originally came from religious refugees from Europe.

848
00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:46.020
<v Chair>Then we've had eras where mining has been the saviour of our economy,

849
00:38:46.020 --> 00:38:50.520
<v Chair>and that's part of our myth was around that saviour.

850
00:38:50.520 --> 00:38:53.800
<v Chair>There was the sheep's back and the role of agriculture.

851
00:38:54.140 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Chair>Then there was the playford era in terms of manufacturing.

852
00:38:57.060 --> 00:39:00.020
<v Chair>All of those eras had their own, you know, job story.

853
00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:04.640
<v Chair>So casting ahead, it feels like, at the moment,

854
00:39:04.660 --> 00:39:07.260
<v Chair>we're not really quite sure what our story is.

855
00:39:07.740 --> 00:39:11.040
<v Chair>But I understand from your trip, Heather,

856
00:39:11.100 --> 00:39:13.300
<v Chair>that the places that are doing well

857
00:39:13.300 --> 00:39:15.880
<v Chair>are the ones that do have a clear sense of the story,

858
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.080
<v Chair>and their unique niche in the world.

859
00:39:18.180 --> 00:39:20.020
<v Chair>And you look at examples like...

860
00:39:21.740 --> 00:39:24.940
<v Chair>..Tucson in Arizona in the US,

861
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.900
<v Chair>which is sort of perched on the edge of a desert,

862
00:39:28.120 --> 00:39:29.980
<v Chair>a relatively small town,

863
00:39:30.060 --> 00:39:33.500
<v Chair>but it has a very vibrant culture, lots of young people,

864
00:39:33.580 --> 00:39:35.840
<v Chair>rich activity around music.

865
00:39:36.100 --> 00:39:39.140
<v Chair>And the reason is because they've got a...

866
00:39:39.140 --> 00:39:43.540
<v Chair>..they've become the lens manufacturer of the US.

867
00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:45.600
<v Chair>And so there's been a whole constellation

868
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.100
<v Chair>of industry around manufacturing of lenses.

869
00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:51.160
<v Chair>That's their unique niche and contribution.

870
00:39:52.040 --> 00:39:55.340
<v Chair>So what's South Australia's currently,

871
00:39:55.640 --> 00:39:57.520
<v Chair>or should be, in the future

872
00:39:57.520 --> 00:39:59.580
<v Chair>in order to get that job's benefit?

873
00:40:00.620 --> 00:40:02.040
<v Chair>Do you want me to start? Yeah, go on.

874
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>Three words were just rushing through my mind as you were talking.

875
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:10.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>And, you know, one is innovation, the other is diversity,

876
00:40:10.820 --> 00:40:14.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>the other is creativity, and you might add to that a fourth word,

877
00:40:14.680 --> 00:40:15.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>and that's...

878
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:17.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>..you know, inclusivity, I suppose.

879
00:40:18.180 --> 00:40:19.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>What was that, sorry, John? Inclusivity.

880
00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:21.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>Inclusivity, yes, yes.

881
00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:24.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>And in all those ways, we shouldn't cringe too much

882
00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:28.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>because South Australia has a great history in all those dimensions,

883
00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:30.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>and we should be very proud of that.

884
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:32.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>And, you know, when you look at the history of innovation,

885
00:40:32.740 --> 00:40:33.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>you look at the history of...

886
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:36.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>..across social, economic, cultural and other domains,

887
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:38.320
<v Prof John Spoehr>it's a very proud history.

888
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:41.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>So I'm a little concerned that we look so often

889
00:40:41.620 --> 00:40:43.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>to other places for inspiration

890
00:40:43.620 --> 00:40:45.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>when, in fact, actually, we can find much more

891
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>inspiration from looking within,

892
00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:50.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>not to say that we shouldn't look with it, you know, look externally,

893
00:40:51.700 --> 00:40:55.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>and build on that, but build on it in a much more aggressive way.

894
00:40:55.680 --> 00:40:59.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, my argument, and I'll talk a bit about this this afternoon,

895
00:40:59.680 --> 00:41:02.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>is we've privatised too much.

896
00:41:02.380 --> 00:41:03.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>We've privatised...

897
00:41:03.240 --> 00:41:04.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, we've given up too much responsibility.

898
00:41:05.420 --> 00:41:07.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>And I mean privatisation in the widest sense.

899
00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:09.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>I don't mean privatisation of our electricity industries.

900
00:41:09.980 --> 00:41:13.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>I mean privatisation of the responsibility

901
00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:15.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>for determining the source of energy,

902
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>for determining the sort of future that we might like

903
00:41:18.520 --> 00:41:22.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>and debate those futures in the way in which I think we've begun today,

904
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:23.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>you know, in a really creative way.

905
00:41:24.720 --> 00:41:25.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>We have many choices,

906
00:41:26.780 --> 00:41:30.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>but I don't think we are engaging all that intelligently

907
00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:33.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>at the moment in shaping those choices.

908
00:41:33.780 --> 00:41:34.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>Mm. Mm.

909
00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:35.740
<v Heather Smith>Yeah, you're right.

910
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.320
<v Heather Smith>We think of ourselves as different.

911
00:41:39.540 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Heather Smith>We often stop people and say,

912
00:41:41.420 --> 00:41:43.560
<v Heather Smith>we're not like the rest of Australia, you know.

913
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Heather Smith>Free settlers, you know.

914
00:41:46.620 --> 00:41:48.840
<v Heather Smith>But that's what struck me as I went round.

915
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:50.820
<v Heather Smith>I went to the places in the world

916
00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:54.840
<v Heather Smith>that had high-noted themselves as community energy...

917
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.780
<v Heather Smith>..leaders around community energy

918
00:41:56.780 --> 00:41:58.640
<v Heather Smith>and what they were trying to do with their energy systems.

919
00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.680
<v Heather Smith>And one of the early things you find

920
00:42:00.680 --> 00:42:03.020
<v Heather Smith>is people telling you why they're different,

921
00:42:03.160 --> 00:42:05.200
<v Heather Smith>why it happens to them, right?

922
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.880
<v Heather Smith>So understanding ourselves is a great resonance.

923
00:42:08.580 --> 00:42:10.880
<v Heather Smith>I've been looking for our story since I got back,

924
00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Heather Smith>thinking, what resonates?

925
00:42:14.080 --> 00:42:15.860
<v Heather Smith>One of the things was we were found,

926
00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:17.460
<v Heather Smith>founded on a utopian vision.

927
00:42:17.740 --> 00:42:20.400
<v Heather Smith>You know, people came here for a better life.

928
00:42:20.620 --> 00:42:23.560
<v Heather Smith>And I think that reach for a better life

929
00:42:23.560 --> 00:42:25.600
<v Heather Smith>could be something that really serves us.

930
00:42:27.120 --> 00:42:29.520
<v Heather Smith>And Barbara Pocock talked yesterday

931
00:42:29.520 --> 00:42:34.260
<v Heather Smith>about our industrial policy being quite progressive

932
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:38.520
<v Heather Smith>in the way that we defined land ownership

933
00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:42.760
<v Heather Smith>and scotched speculation in the early days, you know.

934
00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:45.120
<v Heather Smith>And you could say that's with the votes for women

935
00:42:45.120 --> 00:42:49.040
<v Heather Smith>and some of the socially progressive legislation we've had

936
00:42:49.040 --> 00:42:52.180
<v Heather Smith>is that we did the work to get it right

937
00:42:52.180 --> 00:42:54.400
<v Heather Smith>and to make sure that we understood

938
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:55.940
<v Heather Smith>what we were getting there.

939
00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:58.840
<v Heather Smith>I think that pioneering is something

940
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:00.460
<v Heather Smith>that we should be proud of.

941
00:43:00.540 --> 00:43:04.960
<v Heather Smith>And our energy transition so far has been done on the cheap.

942
00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:07.640
<v Heather Smith>You know, we are not the richest state in Australia

943
00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:09.740
<v Heather Smith>and we haven't thrown money at this.

944
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.240
<v Heather Smith>And I think making do with what we've got,

945
00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:15.100
<v Heather Smith>doing the best we can,

946
00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:15.800
<v Heather Smith>doing the best with what we've got,

947
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:19.920
<v Heather Smith>is possibly a theme that we can really rise up to

948
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.020
<v Heather Smith>and be proud of.

949
00:43:23.520 --> 00:43:26.180
<v Sean Williams>I'm going to agree largely with Heather and John.

950
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:28.100
<v Sean Williams>And three words went through my mind as well.

951
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.740
<v Sean Williams>And one of them was the same as yours, John, innovation.

952
00:43:31.740 --> 00:43:33.880
<v Sean Williams>But I also... Independence.

953
00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:37.260
<v Sean Williams>And I think not just on a state level,

954
00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:38.960
<v Sean Williams>but on an individual level,

955
00:43:39.060 --> 00:43:41.960
<v Sean Williams>having the independence to be innovative.

956
00:43:42.140 --> 00:43:44.660
<v Sean Williams>I think those two kind of create

957
00:43:44.660 --> 00:43:45.940
<v Sean Williams>this lovely little feedback loop.

958
00:43:46.060 --> 00:43:48.620
<v Sean Williams>If you have the time to think about problems,

959
00:43:48.820 --> 00:43:50.140
<v Sean Williams>you might find solutions for them.

960
00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:52.540
<v Sean Williams>But if you don't have the time, then the solutions don't arise.

961
00:43:53.380 --> 00:43:56.560
<v Sean Williams>But the third word also starts with I.

962
00:43:56.740 --> 00:43:58.940
<v Sean Williams>And I think the third word is a really important one,

963
00:43:59.020 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Sean Williams>and that's indulgence.

964
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.920
<v Sean Williams>And I think we have a great life here in South Australia,

965
00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:03.720
<v Sean Williams>you know, largely.

966
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.940
<v Sean Williams>Threats of job loss aside, we have fantastic food,

967
00:44:08.020 --> 00:44:09.000
<v Sean Williams>we have fantastic wine,

968
00:44:09.100 --> 00:44:10.460
<v Sean Williams>we have largely fantastic weather,

969
00:44:10.520 --> 00:44:11.360
<v Sean Williams>we have the best chocolate.

970
00:44:11.660 --> 00:44:13.400
<v Sean Williams>One of the best chocolatiers in the world

971
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.040
<v Sean Williams>that I'm very thankful to live just up the road from.

972
00:44:15.500 --> 00:44:17.660
<v Sean Williams>You know, we have this incredible lifestyle here

973
00:44:17.660 --> 00:44:19.400
<v Sean Williams>that is quite a contrast, I think,

974
00:44:19.420 --> 00:44:21.760
<v Sean Williams>to the lifestyle that's advertised in the bigger cities.

975
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.540
<v Sean Williams>So people often think they'll be happier in Sydney

976
00:44:24.540 --> 00:44:25.500
<v Sean Williams>because there's more much going on,

977
00:44:25.540 --> 00:44:27.180
<v Sean Williams>or happier in Melbourne because there's better coffee there.

978
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:29.700
<v Sean Williams>I think happiness is the great sort of Western myth

979
00:44:29.700 --> 00:44:32.500
<v Sean Williams>that a lot of people go elsewhere seeking,

980
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:35.040
<v Sean Williams>whereas they could just stay here and indulge...

981
00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:37.420
<v Sean Williams>..baser needs, you know?

982
00:44:38.120 --> 00:44:40.200
<v Sean Williams>That's made possible by innovation and independence.

983
00:44:40.460 --> 00:44:41.280
<v Sean Williams>You know, the three I's.

984
00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:42.720
<v Sean Williams>Maybe that could work for South Australia.

985
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.500
<v Sean Williams>I don't plan to go anywhere else.

986
00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.380
<v Sean Williams>It's too fantastic here.

987
00:44:47.680 --> 00:44:49.060
<v Chair>That's great. That's great.

988
00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:51.500
<v Chair>So let's open up to questions.

989
00:44:52.180 --> 00:44:54.480
<v Chair>And just if you could keep them short

990
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.160
<v Chair>and please note no statements,

991
00:44:56.380 --> 00:44:59.100
<v Chair>and let's see if we can continue this great conversation.

992
00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:03.480
<v Speaker 6>I've got an example, a real-life Adelaide example,

993
00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.140
<v Speaker 6>of climate change adaptation required.

994
00:45:08.020 --> 00:45:09.880
<v Speaker 6>And just wondering how you think

995
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 6>they might be translated into jobs

996
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:14.260
<v Speaker 6>because people mightn't know

997
00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:18.180
<v Speaker 6>that Mutton Cove Conservation Reserve on the Port River,

998
00:45:18.340 --> 00:45:20.300
<v Speaker 6>just north of Adelaide Submarine Corps,

999
00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:21.580
<v Speaker 6>is now part of the river.

1000
00:45:21.820 --> 00:45:24.300
<v Speaker 6>The levee bank has breached in two places

1001
00:45:24.300 --> 00:45:27.240
<v Speaker 6>and the rush of tides in there

1002
00:45:27.240 --> 00:45:30.540
<v Speaker 6>is quickly eroding all of that area.

1003
00:45:31.600 --> 00:45:35.680
<v Speaker 6>How would you actually translate that into jobs

1004
00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:37.280
<v Speaker 6>rather than saying,

1005
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.700
<v Speaker 6>let's wait for the federal government to support us with funds

1006
00:45:40.700 --> 00:45:41.300
<v Speaker 6>to...

1007
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:44.340
<v Speaker 6>..do something about it?

1008
00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:47.120
<v Speaker 6>And unlike what you were saying earlier,

1009
00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:48.720
<v Speaker 6>in fact, the coast,

1010
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.620
<v Speaker 6>particularly Leela Fever Peninsula and the port,

1011
00:45:51.740 --> 00:45:56.160
<v Speaker 6>is very, very prone to flooding from climate change,

1012
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.120
<v Speaker 6>and we've just seen that from the recent months of storm events.

1013
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:01.660
<v Chair>Who wants to tackle that one?

1014
00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:07.920
<v Heather Smith>Maybe it comes back to my theme

1015
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:12.020
<v Heather Smith>about some of these jobs at the moment aren't paid, right?

1016
00:46:12.020 --> 00:46:14.460
<v Heather Smith>But, you know, clearly getting in there...

1017
00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:19.160
<v Heather Smith>There's multiple benefits to us

1018
00:46:19.160 --> 00:46:23.600
<v Heather Smith>having better understanding of the biodiversity we need to protect

1019
00:46:23.600 --> 00:46:26.880
<v Heather Smith>and how we can protect it.

1020
00:46:26.980 --> 00:46:29.040
<v Heather Smith>And obviously other species

1021
00:46:29.040 --> 00:46:32.640
<v Heather Smith>are going to adapt slightly differently to our species.

1022
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:35.540
<v Heather Smith>Our species have put their stake in the ground

1023
00:46:35.540 --> 00:46:37.200
<v Heather Smith>and said, we want to stay in Adelaide.

1024
00:46:37.240 --> 00:46:40.280
<v Heather Smith>Other species are going to migrate.

1025
00:46:40.380 --> 00:46:42.000
<v Heather Smith>How we help them migrate,

1026
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:42.920
<v Heather Smith>that sort of thing.

1027
00:46:43.080 --> 00:46:47.640
<v Heather Smith>So I would argue that in the long term,

1028
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:50.200
<v Heather Smith>the economic benefits for South Australia

1029
00:46:50.200 --> 00:46:54.080
<v Heather Smith>are out of the knowledge that we gain

1030
00:46:54.080 --> 00:47:00.060
<v Heather Smith>from making Mutton Cove work again,

1031
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:04.080
<v Heather Smith>even in a different form from what it is today.

1032
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:06.080
<v Speaker 6>The only current hope it's got

1033
00:47:06.080 --> 00:47:09.140
<v Speaker 6>is that there's a gigantic power pylon

1034
00:47:09.140 --> 00:47:11.220
<v Speaker 6>that's been surrounded by water.

1035
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.060
<v Speaker 6>I think they won't really like the idea of that folding over.

1036
00:47:15.500 --> 00:47:15.980
<v Speaker 6>OK.

1037
00:47:17.560 --> 00:47:19.380
<v Heather Smith>And creative business models

1038
00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:21.720
<v Heather Smith>is part of the thing we talk about,

1039
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:23.540
<v Heather Smith>about the economy of the future,

1040
00:47:23.580 --> 00:47:25.400
<v Heather Smith>is how business models might change

1041
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:26.900
<v Heather Smith>and how creative we might get there.

1042
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:28.660
<v Heather Smith>Bring on the creativity.

1043
00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:30.820
<v Sean Williams>You can make giant pylons

1044
00:47:30.820 --> 00:47:32.920
<v Sean Williams>part of your creative expression as well.

1045
00:47:33.020 --> 00:47:35.880
<v Sean Williams>Was it Iceland that dressed up two of their great big power things

1046
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:37.480
<v Sean Williams>as giant statues?

1047
00:47:37.700 --> 00:47:38.340
<v Sean Williams>Yeah, beautiful.

1048
00:47:38.540 --> 00:47:40.140
<v Sean Williams>And that was the most extraordinary thing.

1049
00:47:40.300 --> 00:47:41.980
<v Sean Williams>It's not a solution to Mutton Cove's problem.

1050
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:42.780
<v Sean Williams>But it...

1051
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:43.920
<v Sean Williams>Sadly.

1052
00:47:45.100 --> 00:47:47.520
<v Sean Williams>And there will always be casualties of climate change

1053
00:47:47.520 --> 00:47:48.500
<v Sean Williams>or any kind of change.

1054
00:47:48.700 --> 00:47:51.360
<v Sean Williams>Not that I want Mutton Cove to be a casualty, but...

1055
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:56.820
<v Speaker 7>Obviously, we need industries to underpin our lifestyle.

1056
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.600
<v Speaker 7>And I see sort of small high-tech industries

1057
00:48:00.600 --> 00:48:03.000
<v Speaker 7>and perhaps adaptive industries,

1058
00:48:03.720 --> 00:48:05.340
<v Speaker 7>like a mirror manufacturer

1059
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.960
<v Speaker 7>who is now planning to make mirrors

1060
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:11.980
<v Speaker 7>for a solar thermal station power station.

1061
00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:12.920
<v Speaker 7>And so forth.

1062
00:48:13.180 --> 00:48:16.960
<v Speaker 7>But perhaps we haven't really looked hard enough

1063
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:19.960
<v Speaker 7>at the stuff that you don't get paid for

1064
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:21.820
<v Speaker 7>but contributes to our lifestyle.

1065
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:25.120
<v Speaker 7>Versus you work 30 hours a week,

1066
00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:27.080
<v Speaker 7>you might be able to grow some of your own vegetables,

1067
00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:28.300
<v Speaker 7>visit your grandchildren

1068
00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:31.460
<v Speaker 7>and marginalised members in a society,

1069
00:48:31.900 --> 00:48:33.700
<v Speaker 7>write poetry, play music.

1070
00:48:33.820 --> 00:48:37.040
<v Speaker 7>And it just doesn't necessarily translate into money,

1071
00:48:37.160 --> 00:48:40.120
<v Speaker 7>but it certainly enhances our lifestyle.

1072
00:48:40.180 --> 00:48:40.520
<v Speaker 7>And...

1073
00:48:40.520 --> 00:48:48.540
<v Speaker 7>In a way, our wealth is not entirely measured in money.

1074
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:50.660
<v Speaker 7>And I think we've got to look at that.

1075
00:48:51.160 --> 00:48:54.680
<v Heather Smith>I did a quick look at time about a decade ago

1076
00:48:54.680 --> 00:48:57.580
<v Heather Smith>and the time we spend earning money

1077
00:48:57.580 --> 00:49:00.440
<v Heather Smith>and the time we spend in other productive roles

1078
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:01.660
<v Heather Smith>as a whole society.

1079
00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:05.480
<v Heather Smith>We're only measuring 50% of what we produce.

1080
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.000
<v Heather Smith>We're measuring the money side,

1081
00:49:08.220 --> 00:49:10.500
<v Heather Smith>but we're not really measuring all those other things.

1082
00:49:10.520 --> 00:49:10.540
<v Heather Smith>We're measuring the money side,

1083
00:49:10.540 --> 00:49:12.200
<v Heather Smith>but we're not really measuring all the other rich things we do

1084
00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:16.180
<v Heather Smith>across the whole of our population.

1085
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:17.160
<v Chair>Mm.

1086
00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:20.240
<v Chair>And, John, as I understand, in terms of...

1087
00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Chair>You talked about the underemployment,

1088
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:24.340
<v Chair>but there's also...

1089
00:49:25.900 --> 00:49:29.520
<v Chair>I understand a roughly equivalent amount of over-employment

1090
00:49:29.520 --> 00:49:33.000
<v Chair>by people who are working too many hours

1091
00:49:33.680 --> 00:49:35.080
<v Chair>for their paid employments.

1092
00:49:35.260 --> 00:49:37.500
<v Chair>You kind of yearn for that solution,

1093
00:49:37.500 --> 00:49:40.300
<v Chair>whereby those who are working too much

1094
00:49:40.300 --> 00:49:42.780
<v Chair>and yearn for more time can then bounce out

1095
00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:44.280
<v Chair>with those who actually want more work.

1096
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:48.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>Yeah, certainly sharing the work around would be good for all of us.

1097
00:49:48.240 --> 00:49:51.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>For those who are overworked, you know, they don't enjoy it.

1098
00:49:51.160 --> 00:49:51.400
<v Prof John Spoehr>Yeah.

1099
00:49:51.500 --> 00:49:53.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>They suffer for it. Their health suffers.

1100
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>Their families suffer for it. We suffer as a community from it.

1101
00:49:56.640 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Prof John Spoehr>So the greater sharing of the available work makes a lot of sense,

1102
00:50:00.080 --> 00:50:01.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>but also to go one step further,

1103
00:50:02.740 --> 00:50:06.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>to value unpaid work, or currently unpaid work,

1104
00:50:06.520 --> 00:50:08.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>through some sort of remuneration,

1105
00:50:08.600 --> 00:50:10.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>is a question that we need to ask as a community.

1106
00:50:10.500 --> 00:50:14.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>I know Tim Dunlop, in his talk today, will no doubt pick that up.

1107
00:50:14.740 --> 00:50:18.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>And I think he's advocating for a universal basic income.

1108
00:50:19.060 --> 00:50:19.180
<v Chair>Mm.

1109
00:50:20.180 --> 00:50:22.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>And I think we've got to engage with that in some way.

1110
00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:24.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>We've got to be careful about that too,

1111
00:50:24.100 --> 00:50:27.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>because we don't want a society of insiders and outsiders,

1112
00:50:27.540 --> 00:50:31.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>those that are on a universal basic income, which is very low,

1113
00:50:31.240 --> 00:50:35.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>and those that have access to rewarding, well-paid work.

1114
00:50:35.860 --> 00:50:37.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>So we have to think that through carefully.

1115
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:39.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>But nevertheless, it's a debate worth having.

1116
00:50:40.100 --> 00:50:42.680
<v Sean Williams>I think all those things the questioner mentioned...

1117
00:50:42.680 --> 00:50:43.600
<v Sean Williams>I'm not sure where she's gone.

1118
00:50:43.780 --> 00:50:46.920
<v Sean Williams>I would class them all in my idea of the indulgences

1119
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:50.800
<v Sean Williams>that we should embrace and try and create space for.

1120
00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:54.220
<v Sean Williams>And these are things that aren't traditionally valued in monetary terms.

1121
00:50:54.520 --> 00:50:56.660
<v Sean Williams>And maybe we need a different economic model.

1122
00:50:56.740 --> 00:50:58.020
<v Sean Williams>And there are different economic models.

1123
00:50:58.300 --> 00:51:00.500
<v Heather Smith>And I was listening to Michelle Barnes yesterday

1124
00:51:00.500 --> 00:51:02.620
<v Heather Smith>talk about the sharing economy,

1125
00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:05.840
<v Heather Smith>and at the heart of it was the importance of sharing.

1126
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:06.420
<v Heather Smith>And I think that's the importance of ownership,

1127
00:51:06.620 --> 00:51:08.480
<v Heather Smith>because he was saying,

1128
00:51:08.580 --> 00:51:12.860
<v Heather Smith>look at all this work that people do in pro bono form.

1129
00:51:13.080 --> 00:51:15.200
<v Heather Smith>So it has some value,

1130
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.180
<v Heather Smith>but it's got more value to themselves for making it free.

1131
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.360
<v Heather Smith>But then two people out of that group go off and sell it.

1132
00:51:22.520 --> 00:51:23.960
<v Heather Smith>And that's clearly wrong.

1133
00:51:24.240 --> 00:51:26.600
<v Heather Smith>So how do you own something

1134
00:51:26.600 --> 00:51:31.080
<v Heather Smith>that might have monetary value somewhere in the system,

1135
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.200
<v Heather Smith>but at the beginning you create it for free for yourselves?

1136
00:51:34.820 --> 00:51:35.380
<v Heather Smith>Uh...

1137
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:37.800
<v Heather Smith>But how do you make sure you capture the value

1138
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:39.960
<v Heather Smith>if it generates value for others

1139
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.280
<v Heather Smith>and they're prepared to pay for it somewhere along the line?

1140
00:51:42.620 --> 00:51:43.940
<v Chair>Mm. All right.

1141
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:45.320
<v Chair>It looks like we've got, what, three more?

1142
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:48.580
<v Chair>And then we'll probably heen towards the end of our time.

1143
00:51:48.700 --> 00:51:49.760
<v Chair>So let's have these three.

1144
00:51:50.100 --> 00:51:50.700
<v Chair>Thank you.

1145
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:53.580
<v Speaker 8>Um, on Thursday, I was at the Bar Smith Library

1146
00:51:53.580 --> 00:51:56.440
<v Speaker 8>doing some research for my PhD,

1147
00:51:56.520 --> 00:52:00.680
<v Speaker 8>and I stumbled across a 1981 booklet

1148
00:52:01.580 --> 00:52:03.340
<v Speaker 8>by a group I'd never heard of,

1149
00:52:04.240 --> 00:52:05.780
<v Speaker 8>Environmentalists for Full Employment.

1150
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:07.800
<v Speaker 8>And it was here in South Australia,

1151
00:52:07.900 --> 00:52:10.200
<v Speaker 8>and it was connected to the Conservation Council.

1152
00:52:10.500 --> 00:52:12.660
<v Speaker 8>And the booklet was called something like

1153
00:52:12.660 --> 00:52:15.680
<v Speaker 8>Jobs, Energy and Environmental Harmony.

1154
00:52:16.780 --> 00:52:19.660
<v Speaker 8>And it even talks about climate change.

1155
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.360
<v Speaker 8>1981, that's not bad going.

1156
00:52:21.620 --> 00:52:22.120
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, wow.

1157
00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:26.440
<v Speaker 8>Now, my point is, they knew what we needed to do.

1158
00:52:27.160 --> 00:52:30.780
<v Speaker 8>And they either came up against strong vested interests

1159
00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:34.680
<v Speaker 8>or in the way of social movements, they crashed and burned.

1160
00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:35.340
<v Speaker 8>I don't know.

1161
00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:39.480
<v Speaker 8>My question to the audience, to the panel,

1162
00:52:39.720 --> 00:52:42.440
<v Speaker 8>is what's to say in another 35 years

1163
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:44.380
<v Speaker 8>there won't be a PhD student,

1164
00:52:44.720 --> 00:52:48.860
<v Speaker 8>he probably won't be having to, you know, go to the shelves,

1165
00:52:49.080 --> 00:52:52.040
<v Speaker 8>but he'll be able to Google a PDF,

1166
00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:55.920
<v Speaker 8>oh, look, in 2016, they knew what they needed to do.

1167
00:52:56.140 --> 00:52:56.280
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

1168
00:52:57.040 --> 00:52:58.060
<v Speaker 8>Great question.

1169
00:53:01.640 --> 00:53:02.960
<v Prof John Spoehr>How do we make it happen?

1170
00:53:04.680 --> 00:53:07.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, look, the vested interests are enormous,

1171
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:09.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>should not be underestimated.

1172
00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:16.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>And my view is that really bold, strong civic and social movements

1173
00:53:16.100 --> 00:53:18.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>are going to be necessary to force government's hands

1174
00:53:18.540 --> 00:53:20.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>to make the decisions that we need made.

1175
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>So it's...

1176
00:53:24.980 --> 00:53:27.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, there's nothing new in that, I don't think.

1177
00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:31.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>The history of change, of political and economic and social change,

1178
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:34.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>tells us that we require strong social movements,

1179
00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:35.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>strong social civic movements,

1180
00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:38.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>to put governments in a position where, one,

1181
00:53:38.200 --> 00:53:42.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>they feel under sufficient pressure to make the decision,

1182
00:53:42.680 --> 00:53:47.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>but, two, they have few choices but to.

1183
00:53:47.600 --> 00:53:50.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>The consequences for them will be serious if they don't.

1184
00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:52.340
<v Heather Smith>I'm on a mission.

1185
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:56.560
<v Heather Smith>I've come back from my fellowship going, right, we can do this.

1186
00:53:58.080 --> 00:54:00.640
<v Heather Smith>I think we all need to understand

1187
00:54:00.640 --> 00:54:04.660
<v Heather Smith>that the system cannot change itself.

1188
00:54:04.680 --> 00:54:06.760
<v Heather Smith>It's stuck in its paradigm

1189
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:13.020
<v Heather Smith>and it needs the external influences to provoke it to change

1190
00:54:13.020 --> 00:54:16.420
<v Heather Smith>and this is why community energy plays such an important role.

1191
00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:20.520
<v Heather Smith>Community energy helps people across the spectrum.

1192
00:54:20.640 --> 00:54:21.980
<v Heather Smith>It involves those activists

1193
00:54:21.980 --> 00:54:24.740
<v Heather Smith>that are going to go the political route to change.

1194
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.060
<v Heather Smith>They're going to build community awareness of this new better

1195
00:54:29.680 --> 00:54:32.660
<v Heather Smith>so that people demand it through their political processes.

1196
00:54:32.980 --> 00:54:34.660
<v Heather Smith>But I'm also really interested

1197
00:54:34.680 --> 00:54:36.020
<v Heather Smith>in the middle spaces

1198
00:54:37.140 --> 00:54:41.640
<v Heather Smith>where the other people that hold the system tight

1199
00:54:42.220 --> 00:54:43.940
<v Heather Smith>and stop it from changing

1200
00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:47.200
<v Heather Smith>believe partly that it's the best system they have

1201
00:54:47.200 --> 00:54:48.320
<v Heather Smith>but they're also constrained

1202
00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:50.820
<v Heather Smith>in how much they can imagine a new paradigm.

1203
00:54:51.100 --> 00:54:53.600
<v Heather Smith>We need to draw those people out of the system

1204
00:54:53.600 --> 00:54:56.360
<v Heather Smith>and we need to work up the detail, right?

1205
00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:59.280
<v Heather Smith>You know, we've had this big argument about the blackout,

1206
00:54:59.380 --> 00:55:03.060
<v Heather Smith>but most of us aren't going to engage with the question

1207
00:55:03.060 --> 00:55:04.660
<v Heather Smith>of how do we see it?

1208
00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:07.240
<v Heather Smith>We need to solve the less than one second response

1209
00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:11.500
<v Heather Smith>to make a system stay live

1210
00:55:11.500 --> 00:55:15.060
<v Heather Smith>instead of falling over under certain circumstances.

1211
00:55:15.300 --> 00:55:17.000
<v Heather Smith>We're going to have to get the engineers out

1212
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.560
<v Heather Smith>and we're going to have to get people outside the system

1213
00:55:19.560 --> 00:55:23.000
<v Heather Smith>because innovation doesn't happen inside the system.

1214
00:55:23.100 --> 00:55:25.480
<v Heather Smith>Incremental change happens inside the system

1215
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:27.020
<v Heather Smith>and we need a paradigm shift

1216
00:55:27.020 --> 00:55:28.780
<v Heather Smith>and that's for all our systems.

1217
00:55:28.980 --> 00:55:32.480
<v Heather Smith>And you spoke about transport and water and waste and food

1218
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:34.660
<v Heather Smith>and one of the conferences I went to,

1219
00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.940
<v Heather Smith>the keynote stood up there and said,

1220
00:55:37.040 --> 00:55:38.980
<v Heather Smith>look, let's talk about electricity

1221
00:55:38.980 --> 00:55:41.080
<v Heather Smith>because amongst all of our systems,

1222
00:55:41.240 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Heather Smith>this is the one that we've furthest progressed on.

1223
00:55:43.940 --> 00:55:47.020
<v Heather Smith>So let's understand it through this lens and this transition

1224
00:55:47.020 --> 00:55:50.640
<v Heather Smith>and quickly jump to understanding, therefore,

1225
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:52.820
<v Heather Smith>how we're going to transform some of the other systems.

1226
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:55.960
<v Sean Williams>Dealing with vested interest is really, really difficult

1227
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:57.280
<v Sean Williams>because obviously there are people involved

1228
00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.600
<v Sean Williams>and people want to be the hero of their own story

1229
00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:01.720
<v Sean Williams>and if somebody comes up to them and says,

1230
00:56:01.780 --> 00:56:03.940
<v Sean Williams>you've been doing this completely wrong for 25 years,

1231
00:56:03.940 --> 00:56:05.000
<v Sean Williams>then they don't feel like a hero.

1232
00:56:05.120 --> 00:56:07.480
<v Sean Williams>So if there's a way for activism,

1233
00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:10.300
<v Sean Williams>if there's a way for the population to say to somebody,

1234
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:12.440
<v Sean Williams>Murdoch, say, you know,

1235
00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:15.680
<v Sean Williams>everything you're doing is wrong but in a nice way

1236
00:56:15.680 --> 00:56:19.060
<v Sean Williams>and make him feel empowered in my fantasy land.

1237
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:21.900
<v Sean Williams>But it's a really interesting time at the moment.

1238
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:23.200
<v Sean Williams>I was just reading a New Scientist,

1239
00:56:23.220 --> 00:56:25.860
<v Sean Williams>an article about the new institutions

1240
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:31.120
<v Sean Williams>that are already major global players

1241
00:56:31.120 --> 00:56:32.680
<v Sean Williams>and we don't know what they're going to do

1242
00:56:32.680 --> 00:56:35.820
<v Sean Williams>because 10 years ago, Microsoft, Facebook, Google

1243
00:56:37.240 --> 00:56:38.740
<v Sean Williams>weren't as big as they are now

1244
00:56:38.740 --> 00:56:40.700
<v Sean Williams>and weren't as far-reaching and pervasive

1245
00:56:40.700 --> 00:56:43.600
<v Sean Williams>and didn't have the incredible potential

1246
00:56:43.600 --> 00:56:45.580
<v Sean Williams>to screw everything up or make everything better

1247
00:56:45.580 --> 00:56:47.300
<v Sean Williams>or just continue things as they are.

1248
00:56:47.560 --> 00:56:50.740
<v Sean Williams>And the thing I like about Facebook and Google in particular

1249
00:56:50.740 --> 00:56:55.720
<v Sean Williams>is that they're both very participatory.

1250
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.980
<v Sean Williams>You know, they wouldn't exist without us

1251
00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:01.720
<v Sean Williams>giving away our information and us being part of the process.

1252
00:57:01.720 --> 00:57:04.380
<v Sean Williams>We are intrinsic to their very existence.

1253
00:57:04.620 --> 00:57:08.660
<v Sean Williams>The billion users of Facebook are what make Facebook so powerful

1254
00:57:08.660 --> 00:57:10.720
<v Sean Williams>as well as their algorithms and all that kind of stuff.

1255
00:57:11.240 --> 00:57:13.000
<v Sean Williams>And it's interesting that both Facebook and Google

1256
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.620
<v Sean Williams>have been accused of being very left-leaning

1257
00:57:15.620 --> 00:57:16.980
<v Sean Williams>and very progressive

1258
00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:21.040
<v Sean Williams>and partly that's driven by the people who are at the top of it

1259
00:57:21.040 --> 00:57:23.100
<v Sean Williams>but I think it's also partly driven by us.

1260
00:57:23.220 --> 00:57:24.880
<v Sean Williams>And yes, there are people who are conservative

1261
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:28.640
<v Sean Williams>that are part of Google and part of Facebook,

1262
00:57:28.740 --> 00:57:29.640
<v Sean Williams>use both those things,

1263
00:57:29.720 --> 00:57:31.700
<v Sean Williams>but I think the general consensus

1264
00:57:31.720 --> 00:57:34.100
<v Sean Williams>and this is me being a wild optimist,

1265
00:57:34.180 --> 00:57:35.920
<v Sean Williams>the general consensus of people

1266
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:37.540
<v Sean Williams>is that they can see that there's a problem

1267
00:57:37.540 --> 00:57:38.480
<v Sean Williams>and they'd like to fix it.

1268
00:57:38.580 --> 00:57:41.780
<v Sean Williams>Everybody on every side of the political spectrum can see that

1269
00:57:41.780 --> 00:57:46.000
<v Sean Williams>and that these organisations are filtering that feeling through

1270
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:47.960
<v Sean Williams>and slowly making it happen

1271
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:50.340
<v Sean Williams>and I hope that they will have enough of an interest

1272
00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:55.100
<v Sean Williams>and effect to shift those vested interests slowly

1273
00:57:55.100 --> 00:57:57.420
<v Sean Williams>or, hell, just buy them and take them over.

1274
00:57:57.640 --> 00:58:00.920
<v Sean Williams>I mean, look at Elon Musk who's trying to get us to Mars.

1275
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:01.600
<v Sean Williams>You know, he is...

1276
00:58:01.720 --> 00:58:04.320
<v Sean Williams>He's basically creating his own space industry right now

1277
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:06.080
<v Sean Williams>just because he really wants to, you know.

1278
00:58:06.220 --> 00:58:07.860
<v Sean Williams>Of course, if he was a secret villain,

1279
00:58:07.940 --> 00:58:09.440
<v Sean Williams>he could destroy the world if he really wanted to.

1280
00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:11.080
<v Sean Williams>So I'm not showing that... That's a good model.

1281
00:58:11.240 --> 00:58:13.180
<v Sean Williams>But Facebook and Google, maybe.

1282
00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.400
<v Sean Williams>Who knows where we'll be in another ten years

1283
00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:17.560
<v Sean Williams>once they're even bigger and more powerful

1284
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:19.020
<v Sean Williams>or the exact opposite.

1285
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:21.680
<v Chair>All right, let's quickly get through these last two questions.

1286
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:23.040
<v Speaker 9>OK, thank you.

1287
00:58:23.140 --> 00:58:25.740
<v Speaker 9>Just briefly following on from what John and Heather said about

1288
00:58:25.740 --> 00:58:29.220
<v Speaker 9>there are lots of jobs in adaptation and mitigation of climate change,

1289
00:58:29.380 --> 00:58:31.320
<v Speaker 9>I'm sure there'll be also a lot more jobs

1290
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:34.100
<v Speaker 9>in infrastructure, for example, like building more tram lines,

1291
00:58:34.160 --> 00:58:37.200
<v Speaker 9>railways, improving roads, water recycling and all those areas,

1292
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.060
<v Speaker 9>and also, of course, in the environment with, you know,

1293
00:58:40.060 --> 00:58:42.440
<v Speaker 9>tracking down feral species and plants and removing those.

1294
00:58:42.660 --> 00:58:45.940
<v Speaker 9>The question is, how do we pay for those people to do those jobs?

1295
00:58:46.040 --> 00:58:48.880
<v Speaker 9>And my question basically is, could we do that

1296
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:51.780
<v Speaker 9>by closing all the tax loopholes that big businesses exploit

1297
00:58:51.780 --> 00:58:55.080
<v Speaker 9>and also high-income earners or maybe increasing the GST?

1298
00:58:55.220 --> 00:58:57.140
<v Speaker 9>I mean, the jobs are there,

1299
00:58:57.200 --> 00:58:59.460
<v Speaker 9>it's just we've got to find a way of paying for them.

1300
00:58:59.540 --> 00:59:00.320
<v Speaker 9>So how do we do that?

1301
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:01.640
<v Speaker 9>Or superannuation?

1302
00:59:01.740 --> 00:59:02.240
<v Speaker 9>Oh, absolutely.

1303
00:59:02.980 --> 00:59:05.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, there's this strange thing called public debt.

1304
00:59:05.420 --> 00:59:07.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's very unpopular, but...

1305
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:09.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, historically, it's been unpopular,

1306
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:12.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>but...or in recent history, anyway,

1307
00:59:12.140 --> 00:59:14.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>but it is the main mechanism for paying

1308
00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:17.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>for major infrastructure projects across the globe.

1309
00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:21.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>And when interest rates are extraordinarily low,

1310
00:59:21.740 --> 00:59:23.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>it makes enormous sense for governments

1311
00:59:23.740 --> 00:59:26.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>to borrow for long-term investments in infrastructure.

1312
00:59:26.380 --> 00:59:29.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>So I'd be advocating that as the starting point

1313
00:59:29.040 --> 00:59:30.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>because, you know, it's not for one reason.

1314
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:30.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's for one generation.

1315
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:31.960
<v Prof John Spoehr>This is for multiple generations.

1316
00:59:32.640 --> 00:59:35.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>And funding it through public-private partnerships

1317
00:59:35.020 --> 00:59:38.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>is a much more expensive way than funding it through public debt.

1318
00:59:38.900 --> 00:59:40.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>So it doesn't have to be funded off the budget.

1319
00:59:40.980 --> 00:59:41.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>It can be funded through debt.

1320
00:59:42.080 --> 00:59:44.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>And that's the cheapest, most efficient way of going about it.

1321
00:59:44.660 --> 00:59:48.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>That's the way we've done it up until, really, the 1980s.

1322
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:52.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>So all the great infrastructure of this state and the nation

1323
00:59:52.160 --> 00:59:56.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>was built off the back of smart, patient public debt.

1324
00:59:57.040 --> 01:00:00.180
<v Heather Smith>I was struck by how much...

1325
01:00:00.180 --> 01:00:01.860
<v Heather Smith>how much sovereignty the Americans had

1326
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:06.420
<v Heather Smith>over their democratic systems at really local levels.

1327
01:00:06.640 --> 01:00:08.340
<v Heather Smith>And we might laugh about American politics,

1328
01:00:08.600 --> 01:00:13.500
<v Heather Smith>but I met the mayor of a village, literally 3,000 people,

1329
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.900
<v Heather Smith>who'd had the conversation with her town

1330
01:00:16.900 --> 01:00:19.900
<v Heather Smith>about borrowing money for economic development.

1331
01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:24.180
<v Heather Smith>And, you know, they all tax at state levels.

1332
01:00:24.980 --> 01:00:28.060
<v Heather Smith>So one of the other models I saw were community shares.

1333
01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:30.720
<v Heather Smith>And...and communities.

1334
01:00:31.220 --> 01:00:33.900
<v Heather Smith>But investing in businesses

1335
01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:37.100
<v Heather Smith>to generate funds for their communities.

1336
01:00:37.100 --> 01:00:41.040
<v Heather Smith>So we need to be creative about how to fund these things

1337
01:00:41.040 --> 01:00:42.120
<v Heather Smith>is probably the answer.

1338
01:00:42.380 --> 01:00:43.180
<v Chair>Mm. Fantastic.

1339
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:44.600
<v Chair>All right, last question.

1340
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:48.040
<v Speaker 5>Probably following on the same theme,

1341
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:50.820
<v Speaker 5>we are moving from manufacturing to more services,

1342
01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:53.620
<v Speaker 5>so we need to consume those services to create the jobs.

1343
01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:57.200
<v Speaker 5>The problem is, to consume those services, we need an income.

1344
01:00:58.060 --> 01:01:00.400
<v Speaker 5>And at the moment, the model, our economic model,

1345
01:01:00.460 --> 01:01:04.080
<v Speaker 5>is that wealth is being...is concentrated in certain areas.

1346
01:01:04.120 --> 01:01:05.520
<v Speaker 5>It's not being evenly distributed.

1347
01:01:06.040 --> 01:01:08.560
<v Speaker 5>So how do you see us solving that problem

1348
01:01:08.560 --> 01:01:10.460
<v Speaker 5>if we're going to be able to consume the services

1349
01:01:10.460 --> 01:01:12.660
<v Speaker 5>which will be the jobs of the future?

1350
01:01:13.460 --> 01:01:13.520
<v Chair>Mm.

1351
01:01:14.640 --> 01:01:16.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>So, essentially, how do we pay for it? Is that...?

1352
01:01:16.780 --> 01:01:17.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>Exactly. Yes.

1353
01:01:18.860 --> 01:01:20.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, it goes back to one of the earlier comments,

1354
01:01:20.720 --> 01:01:21.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think, that was made.

1355
01:01:21.860 --> 01:01:26.400
<v Prof John Spoehr>I mean, we do obviously need a fairer tax system in Australia.

1356
01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:28.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>Uh...and the...uh...

1357
01:01:28.060 --> 01:01:31.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>the constant refrain we hear again and again

1358
01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:33.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>is reduce the corporate tax rate,

1359
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:36.960
<v Prof John Spoehr>reduce, um...income...

1360
01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:39.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>Sorry, taxes on income earners.

1361
01:01:39.660 --> 01:01:42.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>But, you know, low-tax states

1362
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:45.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>are not sophisticated, modern, innovative states.

1363
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:48.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>Just look at the Scandinavian experience.

1364
01:01:48.900 --> 01:01:52.800
<v Prof John Spoehr>Look at where they are at, relatively to us,

1365
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:54.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>in terms of their sophistication,

1366
01:01:54.700 --> 01:01:58.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>their economic sophistication, their technological sophistication,

1367
01:01:58.060 --> 01:02:01.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>the depth and breadth of knowledge and skills in those nations

1368
01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:04.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>are the foundation for their prosperity

1369
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:05.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the next 20, 30, 40 years.

1370
01:02:06.060 --> 01:02:08.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>We're not doing that in the same way here in Australia.

1371
01:02:09.100 --> 01:02:14.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>So, um...a good progressive tax system is the foundation of it,

1372
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:16.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>uh...and then alongside that,

1373
01:02:16.640 --> 01:02:20.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>using public debt for long-term infrastructure, uh...investments.

1374
01:02:20.720 --> 01:02:21.180
<v Heather Smith>Mm.

1375
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.700
<v Heather Smith>And if you think about the economy as, um...a bubble

1376
01:02:25.700 --> 01:02:27.980
<v Heather Smith>where if we buy things from outside,

1377
01:02:27.980 --> 01:02:32.100
<v Heather Smith>we need to sell things outside to balance that, uh, equation,

1378
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:36.980
<v Heather Smith>the local economy's discussion is about that import replacement,

1379
01:02:37.720 --> 01:02:40.480
<v Heather Smith>what can we do ourselves, um...

1380
01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:43.140
<v Heather Smith>to sort of create that value

1381
01:02:43.140 --> 01:02:47.640
<v Heather Smith>and get rid of the, um...the sort of debt obligation,

1382
01:02:47.980 --> 01:02:50.480
<v Heather Smith>the trade obligation that we have outside.

1383
01:02:50.780 --> 01:02:53.160
<v Heather Smith>So I think that's becoming a richer conversation.

1384
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.980
<v Sean Williams>Mm. It requires a certain amount of, um...

1385
01:02:58.780 --> 01:03:02.240
<v Sean Williams>being brave, I think, at a legislative level...

1386
01:03:03.220 --> 01:03:03.880
<v Sean Williams>at a popular level.

1387
01:03:03.980 --> 01:03:05.580
<v Sean Williams>I think there are big changes coming

1388
01:03:05.580 --> 01:03:07.340
<v Sean Williams>that require big changes in response,

1389
01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:12.420
<v Sean Williams>and short of, um...storming the ivory towers with pitchforks,

1390
01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:15.060
<v Sean Williams>um, I think we do need to consider, uh,

1391
01:03:15.200 --> 01:03:18.900
<v Sean Williams>fairly radically different taxation models and trade models,

1392
01:03:19.080 --> 01:03:20.980
<v Sean Williams>and I think we need to be willing to embrace

1393
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:23.060
<v Sean Williams>the risk that comes with that.

1394
01:03:23.240 --> 01:03:24.980
<v Sean Williams>To be brave. Be brave, SA.

1395
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:27.060
<v Sean Williams>Be brave, Australia, you know?

1396
01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:27.400
<v Sean Williams>Yeah.

1397
01:03:28.140 --> 01:03:31.640
<v Chair>Or the creation of a great big machine where it just happens.

1398
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:33.580
<v Chair>Wouldn't that be great? Let's just do that.

1399
01:03:33.620 --> 01:03:34.700
<v Sean Williams>Leave that magic wand.

1400
01:03:36.560 --> 01:03:38.380
<v Chair>I'm afraid our time has come to an end.

1401
01:03:38.420 --> 01:03:41.300
<v Chair>Could you please join me in thanking these fantastic speakers?

1402
01:03:43.140 --> 01:03:44.240
<v Speaker 5>I enjoyed that.

1403
01:03:44.380 --> 01:03:45.040
<v Speaker 5>I enjoyed that.

1404
01:03:45.100 --> 01:03:45.980
<v Speaker 5>Thank you.