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<v Chair>Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

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<v Chair>Hello, I'm Sarah Thomas.

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<v Chair>I'm from the Department of the Premier and Cabinet.

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<v Chair>Welcome to the 2016 Adelaide Festival Ideas

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<v Chair>and today's session, Roads to Ruin, Pathways to Prosperity.

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<v Chair>I acknowledge that today we're gathered on the traditional country

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<v Chair>of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains.

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<v Chair>We recognise and respect their cultural heritage,

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<v Chair>beliefs and relationship with the land.

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<v Chair>We acknowledge that these are of continuing importance

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<v Chair>to the Kaurna people living today

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<v Chair>and that we respect their elders, past and present.

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<v Chair>Now, it gives me great pleasure to introduce our speaker for today,

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<v Chair>Professor John Spear.

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<v Chair>John is the Director of the Australian Industrial Transformation Institute

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<v Chair>at Flinders University.

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<v Chair>John has a background in economic, industry and workplace research

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<v Chair>and formerly led the Australian Workplace Innovation and Social Research Centre.

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<v Chair>John is now establishing the SA9,

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<v Chair>node of the Innovative Manufacturing CRC,

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<v Chair>linked to the Stretton Centre,

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<v Chair>a focal point for building future industries.

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<v Chair>Please welcome John Spear.

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<v Chair>APPLAUSE

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Thanks very much, Sarah.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a great pleasure to be here with you this afternoon,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>on this beautiful afternoon,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>so I really appreciate you coming along

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and taking interest in my talk today.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So for the next half an hour, I'll share some reflections,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>reflections based...

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<v Prof John Spoehr>based on, I suppose, my role as a researcher

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and as an interested public intellectual, I suppose,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>here in South Australia over the last 30 years.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Can I begin saying thank you to Philip Adams, of course,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>who this wonderful Festival of Ideas is dedicated to.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Thank you, Philip, for your wonderful Little Wireless program,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the columns, the iconic films

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and for being such a wise and good-humoured bloke,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>wherever you are, Philip, tonight.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Can I also take this opportunity

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to honour the late Philip Adams,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and to honour another towering figure

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in Australian intellectual life,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the great historian and social scientist,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the late Hugh Stretton.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Finally, thanks to the Festival of Ideas

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<v Prof John Spoehr>for inviting me to speak today.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>As you age, like I am, you become aware of patterns.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>History seems to repeat itself

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and memories of the causes of past failures fade with time.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Stubbornly held dogmatic views, self-interest and greed

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<v Prof John Spoehr>can take us down some roads to ruin.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Well-travelled roads to ruin

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<v Prof John Spoehr>have brought us three major global economic crises

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the last three decades.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Each crisis is a reminder of how ineffectual efforts

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to curb the rapaciousness of the global banking

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and financial sector have been.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The economic carnage and hardship generated by the GFC

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the United States and Europe

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<v Prof John Spoehr>has left deep scars, painful scars.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Chronic unemployment and underemployment

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<v Prof John Spoehr>persists in many communities.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The GFC was made worse in many parts of the world

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by the imposition of austerity policies,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>inflicting suffering upon suffering.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Harsh austerity programs have starved individuals and communities

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of the public investment they need

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to recover from financial crises.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We were much more fortunate here in Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It was no accident that Australia avoided being plunged

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<v Prof John Spoehr>into recession by the GFC.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Early and substantial intervention

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by the GFC in the United States and Europe

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by the Rudd government played a critical role

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in helping to sustain confidence in the banking and financial sector

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and bolster consumer and industry confidence.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The stimulus package did what it needed to do,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that is, fill the investment gap that was created by the GFC.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Without it, we would have seen unemployment rise

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<v Prof John Spoehr>well above 8% nationally and close to 10% here in South Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We know from this and from our long history

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of dealing with global economic crises

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that Australia must be willing to intervene

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<v Prof John Spoehr>with substantial stimulus rather than austerity measures

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<v Prof John Spoehr>if we are to avoid fanning the fires of recession.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While the Rudd government implemented

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<v Prof John Spoehr>one of the most successful stimulus packages

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in recent history, leadership divisions within Labor

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<v Prof John Spoehr>inflicted mortal political wounds, as we all know.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This was enough to ensure victory for Tony Abbott

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and the Coalition in 2013.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The 2014 budget that followed was a truly austere one,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as many of you know.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It was much like those imposed on communities in Europe

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the wake of the GFC.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>For those with long memories,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the policy prescriptions laid out by the Coalition in 2014

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<v Prof John Spoehr>were very familiar ones.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>They hark back to the 1980s,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to John Hewson's fightback package

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and the detailed neoliberal economic restructuring programs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that were outlined in that.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Inspired by Thatcherism, these were radical attempts

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to dismantle Australia's social democratic legacy.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Reflecting back on that time,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>even the social democratic legacy of the GFC

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and the staunchest advocates of systematic privatisation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and outsourcing are now struggling to point to the benefits of it.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Privatisation of South Australia's electricity industry

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<v Prof John Spoehr>was heralded as a driver of greater efficiency and lower cost.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It, along with the national electricity market

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<v Prof John Spoehr>within which it operates,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>has been a monumental policy failure.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>A road to ruin, if you like.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Nevertheless, the privatisation juggernaut rolls on,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>propelled by yet another dogmatic report

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by the Productivity Commission.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The target this time around is services rather than assets.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Public hospitals, social housing, specialist palliative care

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and human services in remote Indigenous communities.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This general approach is well advanced in Britain

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and is being implemented already

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in very subtle and seductive ways here in Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>New financing mechanisms are bypassing

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and replacing established public sector providers and NGOs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by directing public sector providers to the GFC.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Funders to consumers.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>As alluring as the rhetoric of consumer empowerment

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<v Prof John Spoehr>surrounding this might seem,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it amounts to a voucher system

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and voucher systems amount to privatisation.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>They lead to a deterioration in service quality and choice

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and they depress wages and conditions in the sectors affected.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This is a road to ruin.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There are roads to ruin and some roads

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that are just too risky to contemplate going down.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And I have to say,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>at this particular point in time here in Adelaide,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>one of these is nuclear waste storage.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>A long-held view is that nations should take responsibility

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<v Prof John Spoehr>for their own radioactive waste.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This moral position imposes important disciplines

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<v Prof John Spoehr>on how radioactive material is managed and stored.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The prospect of great riches and jobs

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<v Prof John Spoehr>flowing from becoming a storehouse for radioactive material

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is incredibly seductive

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<v Prof John Spoehr>at a time when job losses

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the automotive, mining and steel industries loom large.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But we must guard against seeing the Royal Commission's findings

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as the foundation for some kind of nuclear Eldorado.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The economic assumptions made by the Royal Commission

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<v Prof John Spoehr>trade off risk for economic benefit

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in an unacceptable way.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>For example, the proposal involves

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<v Prof John Spoehr>above-ground storage of waste

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as a means of generating a revenue stream

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to fund the costs of the proposed underground facility,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>not just for five years, not just for ten years,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>but for decades.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This exposes communities to unacceptable risk.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Desperate times must not give way to desperate measures.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We will feel prouder as a community

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<v Prof John Spoehr>if we invest in the development of other ventures

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<v Prof John Spoehr>like solar thermal energy generation facilities,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>hybrid generation and advanced battery storage technologies.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>In other words, there are alternatives,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>other ways of working through this difficult time we face.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While there's an urgent need to accelerate the growth

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of knowledge-intensive industries,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we must put in place sufficient short-term measures

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to generate jobs for those who desperately need them,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>now and over the years to come.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Fortunately, there is an appreciation of the need for this

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<v Prof John Spoehr>within the state government.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But we have a crisis on our hands.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Full-time employment for males in South Australia

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is already in recession.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The main drivers of this have been the impact

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of the high exchange rate on the competitiveness

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of the manufacturing sector,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>which of course is a function of the two-speed economy,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>a function of the mining boom.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This, along with the cavalier attitude of the Abbott federal government,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>led to the closure of our automotive industry,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>an industrial calamity, in my view,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that could have been prevented

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by a much more judicious national response.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While we can't prevent the auto closure,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we can prevent it plunging thousands of South Australians

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<v Prof John Spoehr>into unemployment, underemployment and hardship.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The impact of the closure on South Australia

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<v Prof John Spoehr>continues to be underestimated.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While some excellent strategies have been put in place

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to support workers and companies,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we don't have a strategy to fill the 2-3 billion,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that is the 2-3 billion per annum investment hole

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<v Prof John Spoehr>created by the closure.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While some progress has been made towards this,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it's not enough to prevent unemployment rising sharply,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>particularly male unemployment.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Here's why.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While total employment,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in South Australia, is growing,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it masks a number of problems.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Much of the growth, as I think probably most of you know,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is in part-time and casual employment,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and around about a third of those working under these circumstances

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<v Prof John Spoehr>would prefer to work more hours.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Higher levels of labour unutilisation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is a problem that both women and men face.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>With the closure of the automotive manufacturing industry next year,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>this is set to get much worse for men in particular.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Male full-time employment has collapsed in South Australia,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>largely as a consequence,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of manufacturing, mining and construction job losses.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's set to get much worse soon

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<v Prof John Spoehr>if we don't boost investment in job-rich projects.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>South Australia is likely to go into 2017

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<v Prof John Spoehr>with a male unemployment rate of around about 7%.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>And full-time employment for males in reverse.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This is a diabolical combination, if you think about it.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>After peaking at around about 365,000 full-time jobs in 28,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>total male full-time employment is now around about 340,000.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>In the middle of the 1990s recession,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it got down to 313,000.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>I don't expect it's going to get that bad,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>but in the absence of significant compensating investment,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it will get close.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So with full-time employment in reverse

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and sustained losses in manufacturing,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>job prospects for men with a background in the automotive industry

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<v Prof John Spoehr>are deteriorating.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Most of the alternative jobs that are available

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<v Prof John Spoehr>are part-time and concentrated in sectors like health and aged care.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>This is not an easy job.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There are significant transitions to make

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<v Prof John Spoehr>if your life has been spent working in manufacturing or construction.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While significant transitions are being made,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and some people are successfully making that big transition

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<v Prof John Spoehr>from one sector to another,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it often requires significant retraining and intensive support.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We need another solution to operate alongside this

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to help ensure that the largest possible number of people displaced

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<v Prof John Spoehr>from the auto-closure are re-employed as soon as possible

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in different sectors.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We need jobs that are well-paid.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There is no shortage of work to be done

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in modernising our transport, housing and civic infrastructure.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We are at the end of a recent boom

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in engineering and construction projects in South Australia, however.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Major projects like the new RAH are nearly completed

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and we don't have sufficiently privately funded projects

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<v Prof John Spoehr>coming on stream to maintain recent engineering

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and construction industry momentum.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>What we don't want is,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>for this sector to start contracting at the same time

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as the automotive closure occurs.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>One bit of good news on the infrastructure front

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<v Prof John Spoehr>was the agreement between the Federal and State Government

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to fund the Northern Connected Road project,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>emblematic, I believe, of a significant thawing

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in relations between the two levels of government

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<v Prof John Spoehr>since the ascension of Malcolm Turnbull.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We'd had really no assistance from the Commonwealth

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to that point for infrastructure projects here in South Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>More projects like this need to be funded,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and could be funded relatively cheaply through borrowings,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>given how low interest rates are at the moment.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Interest rates are at incredibly low levels,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>so public debt-funded infrastructure investment

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<v Prof John Spoehr>makes a lot of sense.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>You couldn't get a better time to borrow than now.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There are other reasons to aggressively stimulate

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the South Australian economy at the moment.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>As Tim's told us, automation is expected to displace

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<v Prof John Spoehr>many routine tasks, and artificial intelligence has the potential

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to do so.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We've got to do the same for very complex tasks.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>I've got to say, a debate now rages about whether

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<v Prof John Spoehr>technologically-induced job creation will be outpaced

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by job destruction flowing from automation.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We've long been told that technology will generate

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<v Prof John Spoehr>more jobs than it displaces, but automation makes this

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<v Prof John Spoehr>less certain, not just automation alone,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>but because of the combination of automation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and the great advances in artificial intelligence.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>New technologies are fundamentally important,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and they are incredibly challenging in the way we design,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>produce and consume goods and services,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the way we live and work.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While early adopters will be rewarded as the flagbearers

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of the industries of the future,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>laggards will be left behind,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>leaving job losses in their wake, unfortunately.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Moreover, routine tasks are said to be highly vulnerable

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to automation, with some estimates suggesting

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<v Prof John Spoehr>that more than 40% of all jobs are vulnerable

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to high levels of automation.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>But don't despair.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Don't despair.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Just because a task can be automated

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<v Prof John Spoehr>doesn't mean that it's not possible to achieve it.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It doesn't necessarily mean it will be.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The costs and desirability of automation loom large

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in any decision to automate it.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>So I'm not as pessimistic as the research suggests

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in relation to the impact of automation.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While fears about disruption in automation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>are not without foundation, they tend to be

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<v Prof John Spoehr>technologically deterministic, overestimating both

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the pace of change and the relative advantage

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of automated solutions.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>There's little doubt that the current wave

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of technological innovations is truly transforming

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the way that we think about automation,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>particularly when paired with digital technologies.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We must embrace them and accelerate their uptake

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<v Prof John Spoehr>as part of a South Australian industry innovation

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and diversification strategy.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>To date, our investments in developing and applying

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<v Prof John Spoehr>these technologies have been too modest.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Nanotechnology, biotechnology, photonics, 3D printing,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>artificial intelligence and simulation are among a suite

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of revolutionary technologies transforming our industries

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and our workplaces.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The new,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>industrial revolution that this heralds

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<v Prof John Spoehr>is replete with opportunities, unique opportunities

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to build a more diversified, knowledge-based economy

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<v Prof John Spoehr>capable of generating rewarding, well-paid

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and secure jobs.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>The reality is that the capacity of many of our

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<v Prof John Spoehr>small and medium-sized companies to absorb

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<v Prof John Spoehr>and apply the new technologies is constrained

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<v Prof John Spoehr>by a whole range of factors.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Lack of awareness, knowledge, leadership and resources.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Efforts have been made to improve the so-called

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<v Prof John Spoehr>absorptive capacity.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We are now a global economy of companies through investments

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in workplace innovation and leadership but they have a long way

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to go here in South Australia and nationally.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We're not Germany, we're not Sweden, we're not Finland.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>We're not at the forefront of the technological revolution.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While radical automation might prove to be a compelling

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<v Prof John Spoehr>business proposition for some companies, it will prove

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<v Prof John Spoehr>to be a bridge too far for many others.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Some will thrive not on automation but humanization.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>That is unleashing the capabilities and creativity of the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>their employees through co-design processes that involve the active participation of end users.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>While we're witnessing the loss of many routine jobs, thousands of new jobs can be created by

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<v Prof John Spoehr>early and deep engagement in what's increasingly become to be known as the fourth industrial

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<v Prof John Spoehr>revolution. To realise the benefits of technological disruption, shape it and harness it,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we need to abandon the largely reactive posture to disruption that we've taken here in Australia.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>A much deeper understanding of disruptive technologies and their potential applications

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<v Prof John Spoehr>in the Australian context is needed. We're not Britain or the United States where much

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<v Prof John Spoehr>of the initial research on disruption and automation has been done.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>Meanwhile, we have to deal with some more pressing challenges. It's a great national shame that our

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<v Prof John Spoehr>automotive manufacturing is on a road to ruin. Other nations have fought hard to retain their

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<v Prof John Spoehr>automotive industries in the face of great competitive pressures. Both the US and British

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<v Prof John Spoehr>governments have fought hard to retain their automotive industries in the face of great

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<v Prof John Spoehr>competitive pressures. Both the US and British governments took a patient approach, enabling their

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<v Prof John Spoehr>automotive industries to work through the crises they faced during the GFC. Here in Australia,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the tone of the coalition at the time appeared to be hostile to the industry,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>sending all the wrong signals to it. The automotive industry is not our only concern. Imagine the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>calamity if the steel industry collapses in Wyala. The nation would lose one of its few remaining

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<v Prof John Spoehr>specialist steel makers and the security that comes with being able to manufacture structural steel for

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<v Prof John Spoehr>our buildings and infrastructure. Buildings like this one here. Around 22,000 people live in the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>steel town of Wyala. One quarter of its 11,000 strong workforce are employed by Arium's steel

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<v Prof John Spoehr>manufacturing and mining operations. The livelihood of thousands more depend on their existence.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>If closure of the steelworks and mothballing of the mining operations occurred in that city,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>it would face the prospect of both an exodus and a vicious cycle of decline. The stakes are

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<v Prof John Spoehr>extraordinarily high. With the exception of a major expansion of mining at Olympic Dam,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>there are few prospects on the horizon capable of filling the investment and jobs hole created by

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<v Prof John Spoehr>the collapse of the steel industry. Recalling the federal government's response to the threatened

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<v Prof John Spoehr>closure of the auto manufacturing industry in Australia, it's been hard to entertain the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>prospect that the government would actually provide substantial or any assistance to the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>ailing steel industry. With the stakes so high, the federal government eventually abandoned its

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<v Prof John Spoehr>hand in the fight against the steel industry. The steel industry is a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

385
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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art. It's a state of the art.

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<v Prof John Spoehr>reclaim what governments do well in our collective interest and reject the idea that we must

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<v Prof John Spoehr>systematically abandon the role for government in the provision of goods and services and in

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<v Prof John Spoehr>economic development leadership. History tells us that the retreat from intelligent public

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<v Prof John Spoehr>intervention is a road to ruin. In his Whitlam letter, the great Don Dunstan said, we intervene

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<v Prof John Spoehr>or we sink. What did he mean by that? He knew, like many others of his generation, that powerful

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<v Prof John Spoehr>forces operate in capitalism to generate great concentrations of wealth and power. Periodically,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>these processes of accumulation are punctuated by deep economic crises when the model implodes,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>creating great hardship and mass unemployment, just like we saw in the global financial crisis.

395
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<v Prof John Spoehr>Social democratic movements in the 20th century responded to this, challenging the legitimacy of

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<v Prof John Spoehr>laissez-faire capitalism and offering an alternative worldview that acknowledges that in the real world,

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<v Prof John Spoehr>we live in a mixed economy, where the public and private sectors interact in complex ways. Both

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<v Prof John Spoehr>sectors contribute to the wealth and well-being of nations, companies, communities, individuals,

399
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<v Prof John Spoehr>and households. Essential to the function of a fair society is a democratic interventionist

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<v Prof John Spoehr>government. Through the institutions of government, we seek to rise above self-interest and

401
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<v Prof John Spoehr>rivalries and strive for some approximation of a common good. This, of course, is a

402
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<v Prof John Spoehr>value-added practice. In particular, competing views about freedom, responsibility, and the

403
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<v Prof John Spoehr>causes and consequences of prosperity, unemployment, poverty, and inequality. This land is fractured

404
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<v Prof John Spoehr>not just by drought opening up thirsty cracks in the earth. Great social and economic fractures

405
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<v Prof John Spoehr>open up where inequality and insecurity grow, and where governments fail to act with compassion

406
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<v Prof John Spoehr>and urgency. When they don't act, the fractures become fertile ground for right-wing

407
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<v Prof John Spoehr>extremism and reactionary nationalistic forces, fueling fear and intolerance. As we watch the

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<v Prof John Spoehr>unfolding US election campaign, we might ask ourselves, what does the rise of Trump signify?

409
00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:06.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>What does it tell us about what people are thinking and feeling about the quality of their lives

410
00:21:06.740 --> 00:21:12.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>and the state of the communities they live in? Millions of Americans are experiencing hardship

411
00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>amidst affluence. They lack job security, decent wages, and quality of life. They lack the

412
00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:21.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>quality of health care. An increasing number of Australians find themselves in a similar situation.

413
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>Our answer to this in the past was a commitment to full employment, nation-building investment

414
00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:33.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>in infrastructure, and universal public provision of education, health, and community services.

415
00:21:33.780 --> 00:21:39.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>The irony, of course, is that we are richer as a nation, as a state, than we were in the past.

416
00:21:39.800 --> 00:21:45.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>But with this has come a growing divide between rich and poor, between those in work and those

417
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:46.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>unemployed.

418
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:54.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>The mechanisms for a fairer distribution of income and wealth are breaking down in the name of

419
00:21:54.300 --> 00:22:00.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>trickle-down economics. The mistaken view that rewarding the wealthy rewards all others. It

420
00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:05.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>doesn't. It leads to greater concentration of wealth and erosion of the tax base. Meanwhile,

421
00:22:06.060 --> 00:22:12.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>Australian wages are stagnating at a time when housing and energy costs are escalating. This

422
00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:16.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>is a road to ruin, a road to growing unemployment. The mechanisms for a fairer distribution of income

423
00:22:19.020 --> 00:22:32.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>are breaking down within us. It leads to greater transition to integrated dining

424
00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:36.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>for solving problems that we have little control over as individuals.

425
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>We must focus more on developing democratically managed

426
00:22:40.060 --> 00:22:44.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>and responsive policy, systems, workplaces, institutions and communities.

427
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>Systematic privatisation of public infrastructure and services

428
00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:51.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>must be abandoned in favour of the establishment

429
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:54.800
<v Prof John Spoehr>of modern and responsive public provision.

430
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>Increased public investment in education, health, transport

431
00:22:58.520 --> 00:23:01.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>in our cities and our towns is needed to underpin

432
00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:05.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>an inclusive approach to social and economic transformation

433
00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:07.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the 21st century.

434
00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:10.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>Modern public institutions must stand alongside

435
00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:14.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>less self-interested private institutions

436
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>to solve the challenges we face collectively

437
00:23:17.380 --> 00:23:20.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>as a state and as a nation.

438
00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:24.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>Where they exist, rapacious interests must be challenged

439
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>and held to account by well-resourced public institutions

440
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>and active civil movements.

441
00:23:30.940 --> 00:23:31.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>Public institutions...

442
00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:33.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>Public institutions need to be reinvented,

443
00:23:33.060 --> 00:23:37.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>not in the image of the private corporation or the precarious NGO,

444
00:23:37.300 --> 00:23:40.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>but in the interests of the diverse communities they serve.

445
00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:45.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>The great humanitarian and social reforms of the last century

446
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:48.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>are the product of a great contest of ideas,

447
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>political struggles and community action.

448
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>A new vision for a democratic public sector

449
00:23:53.660 --> 00:23:56.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>and interventionist government is needed to counter

450
00:23:56.420 --> 00:23:59.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>the relentless attack on its legitimacy

451
00:24:00.840 --> 00:24:01.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the world.

452
00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:04.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>We have choices.

453
00:24:05.780 --> 00:24:08.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>Roads to ruin or pathways to prosperity.

454
00:24:09.380 --> 00:24:10.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>Thank you.

455
00:24:10.100 --> 00:24:11.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>Enjoy the rest of the festival.

456
00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:17.140
<v Chair>Thank you.

457
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.700
<v Chair>That was excellent.

458
00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:19.320
<v Chair>Thank you.

459
00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:22.660
<v Chair>I think your comments around public and private working together

460
00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:24.600
<v Chair>and reinventing the public sector

461
00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:27.980
<v Chair>is certainly the areas that in the Department of the Premier Cabinet

462
00:24:27.980 --> 00:24:30.620
<v Chair>we can appreciate that.

463
00:24:30.840 --> 00:24:31.480
<v Chair>Now we've...

464
00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:34.280
<v Chair>We have some time for questions.

465
00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:37.560
<v Chair>There's a central microphone in the middle here.

466
00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:41.740
<v Chair>So if there are questions from the audience,

467
00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:44.780
<v Chair>please make your way to the microphone

468
00:24:44.780 --> 00:24:49.520
<v Speaker 3>and we'll take a few from the audience.

469
00:24:50.540 --> 00:24:51.240
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

470
00:24:51.360 --> 00:24:52.120
<v Speaker 3>Yep, go ahead.

471
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:52.820
<v Chair>If you just...

472
00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:54.360
<v Chair>Yeah, just introduce yourself

473
00:24:54.360 --> 00:24:55.980
<v Chair>and make sure you speak into the microphone

474
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:56.780
<v Chair>because we are recording.

475
00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:57.360
<v Chair>Thank you.

476
00:24:57.440 --> 00:24:57.880
<v Speaker 4>Hi, John.

477
00:24:57.900 --> 00:24:58.560
<v Speaker 4>Andrew Leenock.

478
00:24:58.980 --> 00:24:59.500
<v Speaker 4>Hi.

479
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:01.280
<v Speaker 4>I totally accept the proposition

480
00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:04.380
<v Speaker 4>of strategic public investment.

481
00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:06.420
<v Speaker 4>The question is, you know,

482
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:07.660
<v Speaker 4>who makes these decisions

483
00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:10.180
<v Speaker 4>and how do we be confident

484
00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:12.140
<v Speaker 4>that, you know, we're making the right decisions?

485
00:25:12.360 --> 00:25:15.480
<v Speaker 4>So right now we're spending $160 million

486
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.280
<v Speaker 4>on the extension of the Oban

487
00:25:17.860 --> 00:25:19.660
<v Speaker 4>and, you know, I just question myself,

488
00:25:19.780 --> 00:25:21.300
<v Speaker 4>is that, you know,

489
00:25:21.300 --> 00:25:22.740
<v Speaker 4>if we were going to spend $160 million

490
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:24.500
<v Speaker 4>to advance public transport,

491
00:25:24.580 --> 00:25:26.140
<v Speaker 4>you know, was that the best investment?

492
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:27.320
<v Prof John Spoehr>Yeah, good question.

493
00:25:29.540 --> 00:25:31.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>I started infrastructure strategy,

494
00:25:31.280 --> 00:25:32.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>has to address, you know,

495
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>a range of different priorities.

496
00:25:34.100 --> 00:25:36.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, one of those is, you know,

497
00:25:36.340 --> 00:25:37.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>sustainable smart cities

498
00:25:38.340 --> 00:25:41.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>and I think that's partly the point

499
00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:41.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>that you're trying to make.

500
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:43.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>The other part...

501
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:45.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>The other point I'm trying to make in the short term

502
00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:47.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>is that good smart infrastructure investment decisions

503
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>would be very welcome at the moment

504
00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:52.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>in order to, you know, boost investment

505
00:25:52.100 --> 00:25:55.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>and boost the available employment opportunities

506
00:25:55.800 --> 00:25:59.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the wake of the closure of the auto industry

507
00:25:59.120 --> 00:26:00.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>and possible other shocks

508
00:26:00.340 --> 00:26:01.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>that we might experience.

509
00:26:01.280 --> 00:26:02.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the next few years.

510
00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:04.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>So I agree,

511
00:26:04.520 --> 00:26:07.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>a better integrated infrastructure strategy

512
00:26:07.080 --> 00:26:08.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the context of, you know,

513
00:26:08.840 --> 00:26:11.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>South Australia and the city of Adelaide

514
00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:14.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>being viewed as a sustainable city,

515
00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:15.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>a smart city,

516
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:17.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>requires some intelligent decisions

517
00:26:17.740 --> 00:26:18.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>to be made around

518
00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:20.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>which infrastructure projects we pursue

519
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:21.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>and how we pursue them

520
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:23.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>and how we might use them

521
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:24.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>as drivers of innovation

522
00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:27.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>given how much investment goes into infrastructure projects.

523
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:31.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>They are among the most expensive projects,

524
00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:32.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>and they are the projects that we invest in

525
00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:34.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>and often we don't make use of that investment

526
00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:36.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>to drive innovation,

527
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>the use of new products and materials

528
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:42.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>and we've got a lot to learn from other nations in that respect.

529
00:26:44.620 --> 00:26:45.740
<v Speaker 5>Thank you very much.

530
00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:47.740
<v Speaker 5>Mark Hudson, I am from Adelaide

531
00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:49.040
<v Speaker 5>but I now live in Manchester.

532
00:26:50.100 --> 00:26:51.460
<v Speaker 5>So you're making an appeal

533
00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:54.040
<v Speaker 5>basically for good old fashioned

534
00:26:54.780 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 5>1950s to 70s social democracy

535
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.140
<v Speaker 5>as sort of almost nostalgia for that.

536
00:26:59.140 --> 00:27:00.200
<v Speaker 5>Shame on me. Shame on me.

537
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:01.060
<v Speaker 5>No, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

538
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.340
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I...

539
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:04.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>No, no, no.

540
00:27:05.340 --> 00:27:07.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, I suppose my central question is this.

541
00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:10.720
<v Speaker 5>Have the social movements,

542
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.240
<v Speaker 5>trade unions, environmentalists,

543
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:16.100
<v Speaker 5>been doing things wrong

544
00:27:16.100 --> 00:27:18.120
<v Speaker 5>or have they been doing all the right things

545
00:27:18.120 --> 00:27:20.160
<v Speaker 5>only not emphatically enough?

546
00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:22.480
<v Speaker 5>And linked to that is

547
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:23.840
<v Speaker 5>how do you sustain

548
00:27:24.780 --> 00:27:26.400
<v Speaker 5>social movement engagement

549
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.080
<v Speaker 5>for more than the two or three year cycle

550
00:27:29.080 --> 00:27:30.180
<v Speaker 5>of the

551
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.360
<v Speaker 5>because you get to a point where the politicians

552
00:27:32.360 --> 00:27:34.500
<v Speaker 5>either say bugger off and people give up

553
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:36.420
<v Speaker 5>or they say, oh yes, we'll do everything you say

554
00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:38.940
<v Speaker 5>and they pass a policy and then they don't do it.

555
00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.260
<v Speaker 5>By which time the social movements

556
00:27:41.260 --> 00:27:44.220
<v Speaker 5>have fallen apart, gone to sleep, whatever.

557
00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:45.800
<v Speaker 5>So how do you...

558
00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:47.600
<v Speaker 5>What do we need to do differently

559
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:50.600
<v Speaker 5>to sustain that long term pressure

560
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.820
<v Speaker 5>that goes beyond the co-optation and the repression?

561
00:27:54.860 --> 00:27:56.840
<v Speaker 5>Because those are the two ways the state

562
00:27:56.840 --> 00:27:58.380
<v Speaker 5>and the vested interests deal with us.

563
00:27:58.380 --> 00:28:00.220
<v Speaker 5>Wow, that's a terrific...

564
00:28:03.180 --> 00:28:05.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>I thought that my question might resonate here.

565
00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:08.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>Look, it does resonate with me as well.

566
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's a question I've thought a lot about over 20, 30 years

567
00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:14.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>and having been someone who really came up

568
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:15.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>through the student movement

569
00:28:15.620 --> 00:28:18.180
<v Speaker 6>and observed all those vital movements

570
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:20.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>that came out of the 60s and the 70s

571
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:22.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>and then lamented over time

572
00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:26.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>the loss of momentum, the loss of energy,

573
00:28:26.820 --> 00:28:27.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>the loss of focus

574
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:30.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>and now we see, I think,

575
00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:33.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>too few strong social movements

576
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>with coherent visions

577
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:39.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>about what sort of future we want

578
00:28:39.220 --> 00:28:42.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>and then striving for those in some way.

579
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>There always needs to be a catalyst, doesn't there,

580
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>of some form.

581
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>I hope the catalyst for a social movement

582
00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:52.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>isn't always disaster or calamity

583
00:28:52.280 --> 00:28:57.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>as it so often is in the face of great adversity.

584
00:28:58.840 --> 00:29:03.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>Interestingly, I think one of the things I observed in...

585
00:29:03.600 --> 00:29:06.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>Well, in the post-GFC period,

586
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:07.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>it was very interesting to observe

587
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:09.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>the sort of anti-austerity movement

588
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:11.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>that grew in Europe.

589
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:13.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>Of course, we didn't have that here in Australia

590
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:14.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the same way,

591
00:29:14.520 --> 00:29:17.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>although the Abbott government

592
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:19.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>and Joe Hockey really gave us a great chance

593
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:22.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>to develop a similar movement here around austerity

594
00:29:22.560 --> 00:29:24.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>because so much of what they did

595
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:26.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>mirrored what was happening in Europe at the time.

596
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>But that...that...

597
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:28.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>ran out of momentum.

598
00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:33.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>Look, there is no easy answer to that.

599
00:29:33.300 --> 00:29:34.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>It really is up to us, isn't it?

600
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:36.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's about how we engage

601
00:29:36.580 --> 00:29:39.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>and it's about how younger generations of people engage.

602
00:29:39.780 --> 00:29:41.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>And my observation is

603
00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:45.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>that there's a lot of engagement happening in subterranean ways.

604
00:29:45.560 --> 00:29:47.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>Maybe that's not quite the right word,

605
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>but in an underground subterranean way

606
00:29:51.040 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>through cyber movements,

607
00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:54.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>through virtual movements,

608
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>through movements that are not so visible

609
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>as people coming together in forums like this

610
00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:03.800
<v Prof John Spoehr>or getting on the steps of Parliament House

611
00:30:03.800 --> 00:30:06.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>in response to nuclear waste

612
00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:08.480
<v Prof John Spoehr>as they did a few weeks ago.

613
00:30:08.800 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>All those things sometimes converge.

614
00:30:11.140 --> 00:30:12.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>My own view is that

615
00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:15.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>the great pressures and challenges

616
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>associated with responding to climate change

617
00:30:17.620 --> 00:30:20.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the next 5, 10, 15 to 20 years

618
00:30:20.420 --> 00:30:23.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>probably will be the next great driver

619
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>of coherent social and civic movements.

620
00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:27.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>Thank you.

621
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's been with us for 30 years.

622
00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:32.460
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think its time will come

623
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>and it will be very influential

624
00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:36.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>and governments will have to respond to it.

625
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:37.900
<v Chair>Thank you, John. Yes?

626
00:30:38.120 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 6>John, in about 18 months,

627
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:41.480
<v Speaker 6>there will be a state election.

628
00:30:42.340 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 6>It would be interesting, perhaps useful,

629
00:30:45.560 --> 00:30:47.740
<v Speaker 6>to just hear some of your thinking

630
00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:52.060
<v Speaker 6>on the sort of scale and focus of public investment

631
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.620
<v Speaker 6>that ideally you think would really put us

632
00:30:57.620 --> 00:31:01.060
<v Speaker 6>in this position as to be in this road to prosperity

633
00:31:01.620 --> 00:31:03.780
<v Speaker 6>in terms of what both the Labour Party

634
00:31:03.780 --> 00:31:06.020
<v Speaker 6>and the Liberals, the Greens,

635
00:31:06.260 --> 00:31:11.500
<v Speaker 6>the various parties might actually put before the public

636
00:31:12.100 --> 00:31:15.380
<v Speaker 6>through into next year and in the lead up to the election.

637
00:31:15.580 --> 00:31:19.280
<v Speaker 6>Just the scale, the focus, what's your thinking?

638
00:31:19.560 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Speaker 6>Yes, it's a good question.

639
00:31:21.540 --> 00:31:23.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>And just to preface that,

640
00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:27.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>what has been interesting over the last few years

641
00:31:27.620 --> 00:31:30.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>is there's been a bit of a convergence of views

642
00:31:31.620 --> 00:31:34.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>around the role of government in infrastructure investments.

643
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:36.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>So you had somebody like Raymond Spencer,

644
00:31:36.540 --> 00:31:37.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>the chair of the Economic Development Board,

645
00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:41.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>coming out and saying we should be investing more in infrastructure

646
00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:45.800
<v Prof John Spoehr>and using public investment to do so.

647
00:31:46.620 --> 00:31:50.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>So there's fear around using debt-funded infrastructure

648
00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:52.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think is dissipating

649
00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>as a greater number

650
00:31:56.600 --> 00:31:59.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>of senior industry players are willing to come out

651
00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:00.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>and advocate that.

652
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>Many of us have been saying it for a long, long time.

653
00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:08.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>But it does take influential business people often

654
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:11.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>to turn the debate in some way.

655
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:12.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>Going directly to your question,

656
00:32:14.320 --> 00:32:17.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>we've had infrastructure investment levels

657
00:32:17.060 --> 00:32:18.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>that are pretty high here in South Australia

658
00:32:18.520 --> 00:32:20.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the last three or four years,

659
00:32:20.620 --> 00:32:23.760
<v Prof John Spoehr>principally because of the RAH and related projects,

660
00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:26.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>around about, you know, three billion per annum,

661
00:32:26.520 --> 00:32:26.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>or so.

662
00:32:27.560 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Prof John Spoehr>And what's going to happen over the next 18 months, two years,

663
00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:32.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>is private sector investment infrastructure is set to decline.

664
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.920
<v Prof John Spoehr>And if that...

665
00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:38.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>If a great gap opens up between public and private sector investment

666
00:32:38.560 --> 00:32:40.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>and infrastructure over the next few years,

667
00:32:40.080 --> 00:32:42.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>that's going to make the problem of responding to the auto closure

668
00:32:42.360 --> 00:32:43.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>that much worse.

669
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:48.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>So I'd be advocating that government fill that gap in some way

670
00:32:48.020 --> 00:32:50.320
<v Prof John Spoehr>by trying to bring forward infrastructure projects

671
00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:51.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>as much as possible,

672
00:32:52.280 --> 00:32:54.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>make good decisions, as has been suggested,

673
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:56.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>about which projects are chosen,

674
00:32:56.680 --> 00:32:59.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>but, you know, that's an extra few billion dollars' worth

675
00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:01.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>of infrastructure investment that's necessary.

676
00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:02.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's not a big number in the scheme of things,

677
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>when you think about it,

678
00:33:04.120 --> 00:33:08.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>in terms of the scale of expenditure here in South Australia.

679
00:33:08.520 --> 00:33:10.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>But it would make a big difference

680
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>to the employment outcomes

681
00:33:12.520 --> 00:33:15.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>of a lot of people who lose their jobs in the auto industry

682
00:33:15.100 --> 00:33:17.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>and don't really have much of an alternative to go on,

683
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>and it would help stem some population outflow.

684
00:33:20.900 --> 00:33:22.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>Over the medium term,

685
00:33:22.360 --> 00:33:25.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think we do need to maintain higher levels of public sector investment,

686
00:33:25.300 --> 00:33:26.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>because much of our infrastructure

687
00:33:27.300 --> 00:33:29.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>outside of the city of Adelaide is very old.

688
00:33:29.820 --> 00:33:33.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>You know, if you take the time to travel to the south

689
00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:35.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>and to the north of the city, you'll know what I mean.

690
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:41.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>The infrastructure in what were the new towns of the 1960s

691
00:33:41.860 --> 00:33:44.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>is very, very, very tired

692
00:33:44.020 --> 00:33:46.300
<v Prof John Spoehr>and desperately in need of upgrading.

693
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>We might be the fifth most desirable city to live in in the world,

694
00:33:50.060 --> 00:33:51.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>but I can tell you now,

695
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:54.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>not everybody's sharing in that.

696
00:33:54.520 --> 00:33:55.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>So, I think it's a great benefit.

697
00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:58.280
<v Speaker 3>Hi, I'm Tanya Smith.

698
00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:01.560
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to ask you if you could elaborate a bit more

699
00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:03.840
<v Speaker 3>on what you were saying about how government needs to change.

700
00:34:04.260 --> 00:34:06.960
<v Speaker 3>And I guess we can think about this at two levels,

701
00:34:07.060 --> 00:34:08.740
<v Speaker 3>the political level and the bureaucratic level.

702
00:34:09.060 --> 00:34:11.140
<v Speaker 3>There's obviously a challenge at the moment

703
00:34:11.140 --> 00:34:13.040
<v Speaker 3>with political cycles getting shorter

704
00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:16.460
<v Speaker 3>and that sort of militates against longer-term thinking.

705
00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:20.400
<v Speaker 3>And then you've got issues with the bureaucracy

706
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:23.580
<v Speaker 3>and a sense that it's just...

707
00:34:23.580 --> 00:34:24.200
<v Speaker 3>In Australia,

708
00:34:24.520 --> 00:34:26.600
<v Speaker 3>there's greater politicisation of the bureaucracy

709
00:34:27.520 --> 00:34:31.180
<v Speaker 3>and just a more risk-averse culture

710
00:34:31.180 --> 00:34:34.020
<v Speaker 3>that's partly reflecting kind of the domination

711
00:34:34.020 --> 00:34:38.660
<v Speaker 3>of the 24-hour, seven-day-a-week media.

712
00:34:39.820 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 3>With that sort of context in mind,

713
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.900
<v Speaker 3>what do you think does need to change?

714
00:34:46.040 --> 00:34:49.520
<v Speaker 3>Is it about going back to the important precepts

715
00:34:50.040 --> 00:34:52.380
<v Speaker 3>of, you know, evidence-based advice,

716
00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:54.720
<v Speaker 3>the frank and fearless advice,

717
00:34:54.940 --> 00:34:56.420
<v Speaker 3>or are you thinking about something

718
00:34:56.420 --> 00:34:58.100
<v Speaker 3>that's a little bit more disruptive,

719
00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:02.020
<v Speaker 3>something that needs to be kind of completely reset in government

720
00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:06.480
<v Speaker 3>to have improved decision-making around these sorts of big issues?

721
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>Yeah, that's a great question, Tanya.

722
00:35:10.180 --> 00:35:12.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>And a really complicated question, isn't it?

723
00:35:15.160 --> 00:35:16.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>Requiring a lot of thought.

724
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:20.020
<v Prof John Spoehr>But as you probably know,

725
00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:22.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>there's some interesting experiments in democracy

726
00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:23.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>going on here in South Australia,

727
00:35:23.700 --> 00:35:25.040
<v Prof John Spoehr>and Open State is part of that.

728
00:35:25.180 --> 00:35:28.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>And it's fascinating to observe these experiments playing themselves out.

729
00:35:28.780 --> 00:35:32.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>And I think there's an enormous merit in those experiments

730
00:35:32.540 --> 00:35:37.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>to the extent that they are engaging a whole range of groups

731
00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:40.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>and constituencies in thinking about what sort of future we want

732
00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:41.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>in lots of different areas.

733
00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:48.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>But what I do lament is the capacity we have within government

734
00:35:49.100 --> 00:35:51.600
<v Prof John Spoehr>to work through really smart,

735
00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:53.260
<v Prof John Spoehr>complex problems...

736
00:35:53.260 --> 00:35:55.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>Sorry, really complex problems well.

737
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.100
<v Prof John Spoehr>So the hollowing out, if you like,

738
00:35:58.200 --> 00:36:04.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>of a lot of the capacity to do research,

739
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.680
<v Prof John Spoehr>to design good policy,

740
00:36:09.060 --> 00:36:12.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>has been diminished, in my eyes,

741
00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:15.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the last 10, 15 years at the state and Commonwealth level.

742
00:36:15.740 --> 00:36:19.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>And as you say, there has been a greater politicisation of government,

743
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:21.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>but at the same time, I think,

744
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>there's been this other process going on of policy units,

745
00:36:26.040 --> 00:36:30.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>research units being eroded, defunded,

746
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>or starved of resources.

747
00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:38.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>There's little evaluation, monitoring going on within government.

748
00:36:39.540 --> 00:36:41.340
<v Prof John Spoehr>There are great experiments,

749
00:36:41.560 --> 00:36:43.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>there are great exceptions to that as well,

750
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:45.700
<v Prof John Spoehr>but overall, that's a problem.

751
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:47.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think we're at a point in time

752
00:36:47.380 --> 00:36:50.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>where governments have to be emboldened

753
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:51.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>by increasing the capacity

754
00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:52.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>and increasing pressure on them,

755
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:54.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>by what I was referring to earlier on,

756
00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:59.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>by external strong civic movements.

757
00:37:01.060 --> 00:37:03.860
<v Prof John Spoehr>And the history of great transformations

758
00:37:04.680 --> 00:37:06.900
<v Prof John Spoehr>suggests that that's what's required

759
00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>to embolden any government.

760
00:37:10.100 --> 00:37:11.820
<v Prof John Spoehr>Reforming labour governments in particular

761
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.980
<v Prof John Spoehr>have always, I think,

762
00:37:13.980 --> 00:37:16.880
<v Prof John Spoehr>reformed on the back of a strong labour movement

763
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>or a strong feminist movement

764
00:37:18.200 --> 00:37:19.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>or a strong environmental movement.

765
00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:23.440
<v Prof John Spoehr>And if we see a much stronger,

766
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:26.580
<v Prof John Spoehr>more potent civil society,

767
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think it's difficult to imagine

768
00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:29.660
<v Prof John Spoehr>how that reform process that you,

769
00:37:30.380 --> 00:37:33.120
<v Prof John Spoehr>I think, hope might happen, will happen.

770
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:35.140
<v Chair>Thanks, John.

771
00:37:35.240 --> 00:37:37.140
<v Chair>I think this might be our last question.

772
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:37.660
<v Chair>David.

773
00:37:38.020 --> 00:37:40.160
<v Speaker 7>David from the Don Dunstan Foundation.

774
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.560
<v Speaker 7>John, you were talking before about human services

775
00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:44.140
<v Speaker 7>and the path of privatisation

776
00:37:44.140 --> 00:37:45.600
<v Speaker 7>and that that's coming.

777
00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:48.780
<v Speaker 7>And I guess my question is,

778
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:50.200
<v Speaker 7>do you have some advice about,

779
00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:51.280
<v Speaker 7>how do we deal with that?

780
00:37:51.380 --> 00:37:52.160
<v Speaker 7>Because it's coming.

781
00:37:52.600 --> 00:37:54.040
<v Speaker 7>People know that that's an issue,

782
00:37:54.180 --> 00:37:56.820
<v Speaker 7>that we have individualised funding in disability

783
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:58.760
<v Speaker 7>or self-directed care and aged care.

784
00:37:59.220 --> 00:38:01.840
<v Speaker 7>How do we make sure that we keep the focus on citizens

785
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.540
<v Speaker 7>rather than on consumers in that kind of situation?

786
00:38:06.660 --> 00:38:10.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>Yeah, it's a great question, David.

787
00:38:12.080 --> 00:38:14.940
<v Prof John Spoehr>And, you know, as you know,

788
00:38:15.040 --> 00:38:20.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>there's this perverse logic in all of this, isn't there?

789
00:38:20.180 --> 00:38:22.540
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's about empowerment

790
00:38:23.180 --> 00:38:26.360
<v Prof John Spoehr>by enabling consumers to have access to resources

791
00:38:27.180 --> 00:38:29.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>and to have more influence

792
00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:32.200
<v Prof John Spoehr>over the way in which services are designed and delivered.

793
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.960
<v Prof John Spoehr>But in practice, what it amounts to

794
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>is largely privatisation and outsourcing

795
00:38:38.740 --> 00:38:42.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>using the British model in particular,

796
00:38:42.580 --> 00:38:43.740
<v Prof John Spoehr>which I know pretty well

797
00:38:43.740 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Prof John Spoehr>and I have some colleagues who have done some work

798
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>following how that's been implemented.

799
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.160
<v Prof John Spoehr>So I think,

800
00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:52.720
<v Prof John Spoehr>I don't think there's an awareness of the risks

801
00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:55.380
<v Prof John Spoehr>associated with the implementation of this model.

802
00:38:56.160 --> 00:38:56.780
<v Prof John Spoehr>There should be.

803
00:38:56.860 --> 00:39:00.060
<v Prof John Spoehr>And we need to desperately raise awareness

804
00:39:00.060 --> 00:39:04.080
<v Prof John Spoehr>about the downside of rolling out

805
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.640
<v Prof John Spoehr>what I'd regard as a really counterproductive process

806
00:39:08.640 --> 00:39:10.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>of outsourcing and privatisation

807
00:39:11.160 --> 00:39:13.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the education, health and community services sector.

808
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.220
<v Prof John Spoehr>There's some great work done by Dexter Whitfield

809
00:39:16.220 --> 00:39:17.560
<v Prof John Spoehr>from the Centre for Public Services

810
00:39:18.160 --> 00:39:20.140
<v Prof John Spoehr>in the United Kingdom.

811
00:39:20.160 --> 00:39:23.500
<v Prof John Spoehr>He's tracked all the experience in the UK of this,

812
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:25.240
<v Prof John Spoehr>upsides, downsides.

813
00:39:25.240 --> 00:39:27.620
<v Prof John Spoehr>It's not all downside, but it mostly is downside.

814
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.280
<v Prof John Spoehr>And so I'd encourage you to have a look

815
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.320
<v Prof John Spoehr>at what Dexter Whitfield has to say about this.

816
00:39:33.020 --> 00:39:36.520
<v Prof John Spoehr>And locally, we need to have a debate about it

817
00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:40.420
<v Prof John Spoehr>because I think a lot of people have been seduced by the benefits

818
00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:43.180
<v Prof John Spoehr>without understanding what the downsides are.

819
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:44.840
<v Prof John Spoehr>APPLAUSE

