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Good morning, everyone.
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My name's Megan Hender I'm an elected member of the Adelaide city council and
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I'm here to chair today's session,
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welcome to the 2016 festival of ideas and today's session making better
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cities. This session is proudly presented by the Adelaide city council,
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and it's part of a celebrations, our celebrations to mark.
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The fact that we have this year reached the milestone of 50,
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50 men and women representation in our chamber.
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That's not unique actually.
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We've met a number of women this morning because we've had a women's in local
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government session breakfast this morning, and there are many,
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many councils who have achieved that, but it's still, well,
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there are some councils have achieved that it's still quite rare.
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And I have to say it was off a very low base in Adelaide's case.
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And so we've been decided that we would celebrate that by making a
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contribution through this festival to to the
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idea of, of cities and the role that women play in it.
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I'll introduce you to our panel in a moment. But before that,
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I want to do a few things firstly, to acknowledge as we always do that,
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we're meeting on the traditional lands of the Ghana people at the Adelaide
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Plains,
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and that we pay our respect to their cultural heritage beliefs in relationship
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with the land and acknowledge that they are of continuing importance to the
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garner people living today and that we pay respect to their elders past and
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present a little housekeeping. If you haven't already,
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could you please switch your mobile phone to silent?
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You're very welcome to connect with the festival via Twitter and Instagram.
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The the hashtag is at all, if I,
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and the Twitter handle is at all at adult FOI and
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Instagram is at adult FOI. It's pretty easy,
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really unauthorized recordings of any kind are
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not permitted during the session,
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but the session is being audio recorded by radio Adelaide for broadcast
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for future podcasts.
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We will have an opportunity for some questions at the end but we'll probably
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keep that opportunity fairly narrow because we've got a number of people on the
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panel and I need to make sure that they all get a good chance to speak.
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The program directors also asked me just to indicate a couple of program changes
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for those of you who are here for longer. Firstly indie,
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Joe ha has had to cancel his appearance at the festival for,
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so for those of you who were attending that session that won't be happening tin
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Tim Dunlop programmed at Hitsville at five 15 is now going to speak
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at the open state hub at 4:00 PM.
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So can you please note though that earlier time and the program and the festival
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apologizes any inconvenience that might cause so quickly?
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Let me introduce our speakers for extremely impressive women.
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I have here that to my right each with a substantial CV that could keep me going
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for quite some time.
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So I hope they'll forgive me if I jumped through each of the CVS pretty quickly.
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So the first, our first panelist is Jane. Joe's sitting closest to me.
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Jane studied English literature at Adelaide university and then had a very,
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has had a very varied career. ABC journalist owner,
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a PR agency, a counselor, and deputy Lord mayor,
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a consultant here in Adelaide and more recently in Sydney.
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And she's currently an and she moved to Sydney to join the central Sydney
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planning commission. She had a longstanding interest in cities.
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She's currently C CEO of the city community foundation.
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She is also the author of this book. Places.
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Women make unearthing the contribution of women to our cities and
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this lovely little book is available at the bookshop outside.
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It, it has recently won the Australian Institute of architects,
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Bates smart award for architecture in the media. So I recommend it to you
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alongside Jane is another Jane who's very well known to all south Australians.
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Jane Lomax Smith, Dr. Jane Lomax Smith am.
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Jane was a pathologist by training. She worked in London, Boston, and Adelaide,
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where she ran her own pathology practice in Adelaide.
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She was three times elected a counselor, twice elected as Lord mayor,
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twice elected as a state MP for the ma for the,
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as a member of Adelaide held several, several portfolios,
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including education and tourism.
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She's still very active in a huge range of community activities and is a
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director of the jam factory center for contemporary craft and design and chair
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of the south Australian museum. And in 2013,
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she was made a member of the order of Australia for significant service to the
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parliament and to the community of south Australia
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To her, right, Is Elisa.
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So an architect born in Italy who describes herself as an urban
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nomad. She's worked in places as varied, as an interesting as Los Angeles,
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Portugal, Southern Italy, Palestine, China, Yemen,
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Mongolia.
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She has experienced both teaching and practicing her craft and is now the senior
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lecturer of urban design and landscape architecture at the school of
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architecture and built environment here at Adelaide university and
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to her right, Christine MCI, also an architect
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educated as an architect in,
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in Glasgow had worked between in the compulsory gap year
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between her degree and her diploma. She worked as an architect in,
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in London when she tells me amongst other things, she worked on the London eye,
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which was designed by a woman.
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She then went back to Scotland to complete her studies and establish her own
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practice, which grew to a practice of about 12 architects,
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which he ran for about 15 years before she moved into government.
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Starting as a head of design at the commission for architecture and built and
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built environment.
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Got interested in south Australia because of the work Tim Horton was doing over
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here and moved to Adelaide to join the office of design and architecture,
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south Australia ADESA.
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And she now heads that as our government architect.
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So just very briefly to let you know how this session is going to run.
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We're going to start with a short address from Jane Jos cause
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she wrote the book, so she gets to speak.
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She'll talk to you for about 10 minutes and then she'll join the rest of us down
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on the pedal for a discussion.
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So if you could join me please in thanking and welcoming the panelists and
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particularly in welcoming Jane to the podium.
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Thanks very much, Megan. And it's an absolute delight to be here.
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I'd also like to acknowledge that we meet on Ghana country.
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Place is so important and in a way this country is their country,
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but it's all our country as well.
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It's places important to us because it,
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it defines us. And
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we all want in the chaos of modern life to feel that we belong
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somewhere.
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It's interesting for me to be talking this morning in this hall,
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I did exams in this hall and last time I was on
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this stage,
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I was strangely handing out degrees cause I was a member of the council
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and just across the river,
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my children were brought up and we were always walking
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through those wonderful Parklands that Adelaide is so blessed with
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Adelaide is a blessed city, I think in many of the qualities of that city.
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And it's certainly where I fell in love with the idea that it would be good to
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be involved in making great places in cities because in the end
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cities are about places and we're here all of
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us because we're interested in making better cities and you're here I guess,
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because you care about that too. This city,
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but if we,
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if we think stop for a moment to set up this conversation and
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think what are places, places are physical places,
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cultural places are also open space and they're the
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connections.
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The way that we get around in this city,
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it's got that fabulous sort of mantle of the Adelaide Hills that sits
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around it and a vast sort of sky that I think
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points to the desert.
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So what made me write this little book?
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And I must acknowledge, there are a lot of women in the room today,
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but there are also a few good men here. And,
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and one of them is Michael Paulin,
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publisher of Wakefield press who, you know,
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supported me in this journey of telling a different story,
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which in which I hoped to,
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to capture and tell stories of the way that
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women across Australia in different cities had influenced
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and made better places. And when you start things,
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you have a good idea and you think this is going to be easy, I'll do this.
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And then you begin and you think more deeply.
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And I had to explore that question, you know, really,
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would it make any difference if women were more involved in
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shaping our cities?
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When I got involved in leading change I've just been in
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the town hall for breakfast and there's a,
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there's a photo board of women who've been on council.
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I was actually number eight as a woman and the Adelaide city council is the
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oldest council in Australia.
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And I was number eight in 1989. And at the time I arrived,
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I thought it would be polite to tell the incumbent Lord mare that I had this
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idea. I could contribute something. I was 34.
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And he said, oh no, we run the city now. You know,
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you're a housewife and I wasn't really welcome.
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Since then,
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one of the dedications in my book is partly a
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celebration of Jane Jacobs, the great American urbanist
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and the dedication I wrote is designing a dream city
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is easy rebuilding a living, one takes imagination.
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And this conversation is really about how do you
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rebuild a living one and that we need the imagination of
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women to help us do that? Well,
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when I first became involved,
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I was really motivated by the preservation of Australia's.
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I think most intact colonial heritage, which was the city,
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the 19th century buildings that are both in the city,
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in north Adelaide and actually beyond through the suburbs of Adelaide.
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And it was extraordinary that it was such a radical idea to think to
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conserve that,
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but it was really the motivation of why I ran for
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council. And I was there, you know,
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for two years learning in a way.
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And I read that Jane Jacobs book given to me by the late professor Hughes,
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Stretton the life and death of the great American city he'd said to me,
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this is all you will need to learn how to shape cities.
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And the architects in the room are nodding.
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But I worked out, you know, we do nothing alone. We,
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we can never lead change. It takes courage to do it.
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And in a way,
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many of the stories in my book about are about the courage of
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women to stand up and question and lead change in the cities.
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But I gathered around me,
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it seems sensible to get other women into the council.
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So when I was asked to do this,
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it was quite delightful to think that I had encouraged
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Jane Lomax Smith. I had been encouraged by the late alderman,
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Rosemary Boco.
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I encouraged Jane Jane encouraged the deputy Lord mayor,
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Megan hinder. So there's a thread there,
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but also Jackie Shannon Gillan who's here today was a
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young,
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really passionate environmentalist architect when she joined council at the
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time that I was there, she'd been working with Peter Garrett in the,
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in the Australian conservation foundation,
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Francine Connor who's also here was a resident and we
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thought that we could make change.
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And I think we did in a way we began change.
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It's 50 50 here now in the council,
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but it's still relatively rare to have that
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kind of involvement.
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I've had the privilege in a way and the pleasure over the last 15
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years in Sydney of working quite closely with Lord mayor Clover Moore,
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she's just managed to do women seven men
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three.
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And she has Monica Peroni who she's worked with as CEO
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for 12 years.
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And it has been interesting because while she has
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surrounded herself with advisors who have
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been great advisors to her and commissioning architects to do
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great work,
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she's really focused on that city as a city of
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villages and the idea.
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And it's an idea I write about in the book that in the end,
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we're all villages at heart,
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and we want to have a place where we can accidentally connect to people that we
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know or people we don't know.
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And that the way we design the shared spaces of the city can
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make that happen. It's a very recent change in my book.
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I write cause I,
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I tried to write stories of people from across Australia city and to
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honor some of the women that are not so well known or not known for what they
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actually did in relation to cities. So I wrote about Elizabeth McQuarrie,
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who was really behind the idea of a government architect. Well,
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it's only been in the last really two years
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that there's been a woman government architect.
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Kirstein MCI is one of the first Jill garner in Melbourne's just been appointed
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and Catherine Townsend in Canberra.
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And this is a really important role for women to
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be able to have a voice in the decision-making around what happens in our
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cities and in a way, again,
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it's that critical mass when you have three it tips the
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balance. One voice is never enough.
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So I thought to set up the conversation,
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I might read a little bit from my introduction,
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which is the idea that the city is now our living
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room cities of the playrooms of our lives,
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holding our past and promising our future.
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As we crowd into cities to live and work.
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And as jobs force us to become more mobile,
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our cities are becoming shared places,
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places in which we stay and spend time when we are not at home and not at
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work.
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People are increasingly aware of how cities can make them
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feel and they choose one over another because of what it
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offers. And Adelaide's always been quite focused on that idea.
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The generation born in the 1980s, who the urban is called,
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the millennials are likely to be Australia's first apartment dwelling, nation,
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a generation they've opted many of them to live closer to work
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and to choose the sense of belonging and convenience and can Nexion
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to a more urban life rather than a suburban lifestyle.
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And then there are those who leave the city for a town by the sea or in the
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mountains or for a house in a smaller city.
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And they still want good places to share village life places
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where they can connect and make community now with more
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mobility and with more people living alone,
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belonging to a community becomes even more important
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to a meaningful life.
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Although cities have grown hugely over the past 100 years,
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people do remain villages at heart children growing up in apartments,
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still need trees to climb.
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We need to see the green of the garden and the blue sky above the
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city is now our living room.
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We want the house and garden comfort and style of home in our
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local streets and parks and the shared places at weekends,
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we go out for coffee to galleries and libraries too talks,
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or just to walk and hang out with strangers in charming,
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lively public places that enable us to feel alive
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stimulated.
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And as citizens aware that we belong to a shared humanity
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at each stage of our life. And as we live longer,
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we're redefining our needs and where we want to be places
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women make is mostly concerned with Australia's major cities and
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the Australian women who have contributed to shaping them.
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And for each of the women that are in there's another one that didn't make it.
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But it is in the end,
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a collection of a body of work by women.
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And I hear news stories every day in my work in communities
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about what women have done.
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I wonder how many of you knew that a woman had designed the London eye? Okay.
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So our CTS
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are really places that have largely been designed
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by men in Australia. Women,
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I write are the uncelebrated urban heroines of our cities.
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They've actually done much to make Australia cities and communities better
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places to live in,
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but their stories are not as visible as those of the men who mostly
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designed the buildings in our cities.
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Cities are manmade places and mostly the work of men.
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The no worries I've told,
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have been remembered and gathered over 20 years of working in
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communities and show just what women have
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done in Australia.
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Men have been the hero architects of most of our buildings leading
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in the design and the authorship, even if women yeah.
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We're invisibly designing and detailing behind the scenes.
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What I've tried to do is explore the question of,
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would it make any difference if more women were the designers of our
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cities, is there a different sensibility?
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How do women work and think? And
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when,
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when you look over many of the inspired decisions and magnificent
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plans for change,
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I found that there were often women behind them. I'll,
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I'll just close with a local example,
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which is sort of part of my story and part of James' story
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which is the rethinking of north terrace.
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In 1995,
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I ran as Lord mayor and really lost the election over the idea of the north
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terrace renewal which seemed radical because it would
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remove some of the Ash trees,
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the old senescent Ash trees,
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but 15 years later well,
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15 years later you have,
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or twenty-five this wonderful public space,
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but it was really Jane Lomax Smith as Lord mayor, Jude Munro,
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who revisited that idea with Diana laid law,
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a minister and her advisor,
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Janet worth who realized how important it was to get
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this to happen for Adelaide.
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And given that culture is so much at the heart of Adelaide's
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reality and its idea of itself as a city.
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I'm very pleased that it,
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that the capable hands of others made that happen.
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I'll leave it at that.
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Thank you, Jane. Thank you so much for setting up our conversation.
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And I want to pick up on some of the ideas that you've raised in Jane's book.
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She talks about how she started this,
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the writing of it by walking through a city through the city of Sydney and
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recognizing that pretty much all of the built environment around her had been
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designed or built by men.
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And so I'd like to address my first question to the architects on the panel.
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Is it,
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is it a radical idea to think that a women might design buildings
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or, or cities or contribute to buildings and cities in a different way to men,
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is, is there a gender element at least you want to do you want to start.
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Is something that we have been talking and we have been discussing
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I think is it's clear that female perspective on,
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especially my profession,
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urban design female perspective is different from men perspective.
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And I think we can identify a few elements that make this
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true.
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I don't think it's about necessarily how we design space out production of new
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forms is not that it's more about the process about the way
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we perceive the pers the profession,
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the discipline of urban design and also the objectives of urban
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design and landscape architecture. That's my, my case
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in, we would do things differently. We, we,
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we we D w w w the disciplines we,
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we approached the discipline in different ways in the way we,
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how we do things and also in the,
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in the priorities that we set as in our profession.
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So I think the first point is important to me is to see
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that women have first of all,
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a completely different approach to authorship and especially in,
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in urban design, Alaska architecture. So woman look more,
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as Jane said before to the collective practice and to
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collaboration into design rather than mend and look more at
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self-accomplishment and individual authorship as a
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central, and actually it's true.
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We recognize in men,
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we acknowledge the importance of styles or individual contribution.
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Well, generally, if I look at round me around my colleagues,
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that the women that I have met in my life,
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in my traveling around the world we look more at nurturing
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the collective, the habitat, living habitat as a collective practice,
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we look at service to the community and something that you have touched very
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well in your book and showing the work that women did.
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So many times we are
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underrepresented, let's say, in the, in the profession for that reason,
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because we, we working in teams, we,
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we give our contribution to interdisciplinary teams are more prone
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to, to help the others in, in solving the problems.
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But that doesn't mean that necessarily we don't have impact in our profession.
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Actually the opposite is just as different way of,
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of contributing.
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So it's just that the collaborative work
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is not a knowledge as authorship and therefore is not credited.
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So my question is maybe w w w probably we need
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to start thinking about our profession as something different.
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My point is that cities as was said,
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cities are artworks,
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but if they are artworks are collective artworks,
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I'm not pieces of you know, one,
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my production of one mind only they have been produced
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during time and layer, you know,
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with different people the work of different competencies,
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different people, different stories, and Easters.
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Because that been your experience too,
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your view of how cities or how women impact. Well.
396
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My view probably is the,
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I think different different designers design differently rather than it being a
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specific gender issue.
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And I do think we're talking more about buildings not being of a single
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authorship. I think that's really, really important.
401
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A lot of touch on that in a second.
402
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And there is no doubt that it's clearly a professional.
403
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Certainly the architectural profession is one that's dominated by by men.
404
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And this was again confirmed this week with the architectural practice board of
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south Australia, releasing their latest survey,
406
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which we've got 755 registered architects and south Australia,
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82% men, 18 women, which is pretty pronounced,
408
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but not unusual, actually similar in the UK,
409
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even though the professionals are about 40,000,
410
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it's 22 to 78. So it's a, it's a universal problem.
411
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And what's sort of been graduating as architects. That's exactly right.
412
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And it hovers around 50 50, and that's also universal. That's also,
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that's something that women in the profession needs to,
414
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I think help address,
415
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but it's also important to think about women in leadership roles within the
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design team. So whether they're the project architects,
417
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the project leads rather than just being the, you know,
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the name on the door or the single author.
419
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And we've got a lot of great examples of that here in Adelaide.
420
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So if we think about recent development on north terrace and even in the west of
421
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the city if we take summary case Russel woods bag,
422
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it had a huge role to play in the actual, the, the shaping of that building.
423
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Abby Galvin is the project architect for the URC medical school that we can see
424
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coming out of the ground at the moment by Morphett street bridge,
425
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and was also the architect for the Adelaide uni brags building.
426
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So you Phillips and Meghan Dwyer were the leads for the Jeffrey smart building.
427
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You need to say again,
428
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Kate color tee was obviously instrumental in all of the work that's happened
429
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outside the front door here.
430
00:27:54.030 --> 00:27:57.690
So if you Clelin from air Emma's as a project lead in festival Plaza,
431
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we've got very senior members of staff as women at both architecture skills now,
432
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which is great,
433
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and also the presiding member and deputy chair of the development assessment
434
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commissioner. Now also both women. So we are doing pretty well here.
435
00:28:13.351 --> 00:28:15.810
It's maybe that it's just slightly it's hidden.
436
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And I get firsthand experience of that.
437
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And the work that I do every day when we're looking all the development that's
438
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coming through through the cities,
439
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that there's a very strong women and very experienced female
440
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architects leading the significant development projects in the city. So.
441
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It's good to hear, isn't it? We just don't know about that. That's,
442
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that's great. I'm wondering then, you know,
443
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we've talked about gender in the building of the buildings and the, and the,
444
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the way the city's put together,
445
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but what about in the sort of governance and leadership?
446
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And I wondered if I could ask the other two panelists to talk a little about
447
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that,
448
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about whether it makes a difference having women on council and
449
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on, you know, in, in positions where you're making decisions about cities.
450
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:04.440
And we've had some really interesting discussions over at town hall.
451
00:29:04.710 --> 00:29:09.480
So I wondered if you could start by just describing some of the experiences when
452
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when women were in a very clear minority, when,
453
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because I know when you first joined council, both of you women,
454
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the numbers of women were much smaller than they are now.
455
00:29:19.830 --> 00:29:22.740
And then tell us how that might've changed over time, or just, you know,
456
00:29:23.310 --> 00:29:27.110
describe your experience of governance. Well.
457
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I think that women in all walks of life know that when there's only one in a
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00:29:30.681 --> 00:29:35.180
room you're treated as if you're unimportant and we all talk about how,
459
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if you have an idea, no one hears it.
460
00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:41.090
And it only gets traction when a man repeats.
461
00:29:42.141 --> 00:29:45.790
And this is not specific to council or government or anything.
462
00:29:45.791 --> 00:29:49.420
It's just the way we speak. And over the years,
463
00:29:49.421 --> 00:29:53.230
I've come to realize that part of it's about the way we present ideas.
464
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I'm not saying that it's our fault, but sometimes I'm,
465
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I can be too polite. I know it's hard to believe,
466
00:30:00.251 --> 00:30:04.090
but you can sometimes say things in a
467
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suggestion, perhaps you could do this, or wouldn't it be a good,
468
00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:10.750
you can't do that. If you're in public life, you've got to say,
469
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this is what I think we should do,
470
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because unless you actually grab authoritarians power, no,
471
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one's going to listen to you.
472
00:30:17.230 --> 00:30:20.620
I think the other thing that's evident from my experience in local government
473
00:30:20.650 --> 00:30:23.770
and they were pretty badly behaved. I mean, I've got small boys,
474
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but some of the things those boys did were really appalling.
475
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:32.590
It works much better when there are a few more of you because it tips the
476
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balance. And if I can offer any advice,
477
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the best way to tip the balance is to be in charge. If you're in the chair,
478
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everyone listens.
479
00:30:42.090 --> 00:30:42.901
Well, in a sense,
480
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I was going to pick up on that idea that having women who are in a
481
00:30:47.521 --> 00:30:52.440
position to make the decision really is a game changer.
482
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.540
And in this city,
483
00:30:54.541 --> 00:30:57.810
if I just give a few examples and some of them I've written in the book
484
00:30:59.310 --> 00:31:00.990
Jane, well,
485
00:31:01.050 --> 00:31:05.910
I realized that the only way we would introduce local heritage listing was
486
00:31:05.911 --> 00:31:10.230
if we could get a majority of people on the council who would
487
00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:14.520
support that. And so I guess I understood,
488
00:31:14.521 --> 00:31:16.050
although I was deputy Lord mayor,
489
00:31:16.051 --> 00:31:21.000
I was chairman of planning and we drove through policy change that wouldn't have
490
00:31:21.001 --> 00:31:25.050
happened including quite simple things like
491
00:31:26.340 --> 00:31:31.320
letting people know when a development was happening next door, fundamental,
492
00:31:31.350 --> 00:31:32.340
citizen rights,
493
00:31:32.790 --> 00:31:37.080
repeat and introducing the radical idea of engaging
494
00:31:37.081 --> 00:31:39.270
communities in the design of place.
495
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.700
The Parklands management strategy, which was an,
496
00:31:44.701 --> 00:31:47.280
it was an idea we knew, had to happen.
497
00:31:47.280 --> 00:31:51.750
And Jane delivered that to try to bring more certainty and
498
00:31:51.751 --> 00:31:56.010
clarity about not building in the Parklands in other cities.
499
00:31:57.090 --> 00:32:00.810
Well, Clover Moore is a really significant example.
500
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.720
She has both taken on climate change.
501
00:32:03.721 --> 00:32:07.380
And how do you make Australia's global city, more,
502
00:32:07.650 --> 00:32:09.300
a more sustainable city.
503
00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:13.350
It underpins everything that she has done.
504
00:32:14.370 --> 00:32:17.400
She has, I write about one project,
505
00:32:17.401 --> 00:32:21.930
which is the remaking of a very large public park prince Alford
506
00:32:21.931 --> 00:32:25.350
park that probably serves a community. Well,
507
00:32:25.351 --> 00:32:28.800
it does serve a community of around a hundred thousand residents.
508
00:32:29.760 --> 00:32:32.400
It was redesigned by Sue Barnsley,
509
00:32:32.401 --> 00:32:36.600
a landscape architect with Rachel Neeson who worked on the pool.
510
00:32:36.810 --> 00:32:41.720
It was commissioned by two women and it was going to be the remaking of a park,
511
00:32:41.750 --> 00:32:45.860
but it's become a really significant public place.
512
00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:50.540
So Clover has through having
513
00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.960
she's out, seeing five state governments, five,
514
00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:57.890
I think six premiers actually in her time.
515
00:32:57.890 --> 00:33:00.020
So having the ability to decide,
516
00:33:00.350 --> 00:33:05.240
and then Anna Bligh had really had a disproportionate influence,
517
00:33:05.510 --> 00:33:08.570
you know, in a short time when she was arts minister,
518
00:33:08.571 --> 00:33:11.300
she in Brisbane came up with the,
519
00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:14.450
the notion of rethinking Brisbane,
520
00:33:14.451 --> 00:33:16.460
south bank as a cultural precinct.
521
00:33:16.670 --> 00:33:20.960
She was then premiere and supported over time.
522
00:33:20.990 --> 00:33:22.730
Others delivered it,
523
00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:27.590
but the making of it really changing Brisbane's image I think is
524
00:33:27.620 --> 00:33:31.010
really important. So, you know, in my role,
525
00:33:31.190 --> 00:33:36.170
a lot of what I'm doing is fulfilling a mandatory rule to review significant
526
00:33:36.171 --> 00:33:37.520
development coming through the city.
527
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:42.530
There's no way the majority of people would listen to my opinion of their work,
528
00:33:42.560 --> 00:33:45.590
unless they actually had to go through this process and knew that the
529
00:33:45.830 --> 00:33:49.880
independent advice that we formed through design review actually helps them get
530
00:33:49.881 --> 00:33:50.840
a development approval.
531
00:33:50.850 --> 00:33:54.350
So there was a structure put around to force people's through a process,
532
00:33:54.620 --> 00:33:59.480
but then also was an open-minded minister and an open-minded C E who
533
00:33:59.481 --> 00:34:02.450
thought that it was really important, but a woman in that role,
534
00:34:02.451 --> 00:34:06.140
and then you can affect systemic change by the way you conduct yourself in that
535
00:34:06.141 --> 00:34:08.900
role. So I completely agree that you need some,
536
00:34:09.080 --> 00:34:12.050
whether you're an elected member or you're put in some position where you're
537
00:34:12.051 --> 00:34:15.650
actually able to affect change, because you're empowered to do it.
538
00:34:17.020 --> 00:34:17.260
Do you.
539
00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:21.880
Think women address different issues of Jane you've mentioned heritage that that
540
00:34:21.881 --> 00:34:25.300
was something that in your experience that was taken up by the women in Adelaide
541
00:34:25.301 --> 00:34:26.620
and, and driven by them.
542
00:34:27.310 --> 00:34:31.690
Are there other issues that you think women take up both in the governance and
543
00:34:31.691 --> 00:34:33.670
in the design of buildings or,
544
00:34:33.710 --> 00:34:36.550
or cities that are different from the way men might address it? I think.
545
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.640
Women are innately nurturers.
546
00:34:39.670 --> 00:34:44.200
Those of us who wish to make life, you know,
547
00:34:44.290 --> 00:34:47.800
have children, we are nurturers and, and women
548
00:34:50.470 --> 00:34:53.050
take that responsibility in family life.
549
00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:57.190
I think some of that taking a long view
550
00:34:58.240 --> 00:35:00.520
is, is very central to women.
551
00:35:00.790 --> 00:35:05.500
Also women are not afraid really of maybe looking
552
00:35:05.501 --> 00:35:09.610
silly and making a suggestion because they're actually there
553
00:35:10.630 --> 00:35:12.640
because they want things to happen. I mean,
554
00:35:12.700 --> 00:35:15.520
I'm sure all of us have sat in a meeting and thought,
555
00:35:15.970 --> 00:35:18.190
I'm just going to say this. Why would you do that?
556
00:35:19.150 --> 00:35:24.040
And Clover Moore said to me, people ever just always said to me,
557
00:35:24.070 --> 00:35:25.390
oh, you'll never do that.
558
00:35:25.930 --> 00:35:30.520
And so I think there is a doggedness
559
00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:31.443
about
560
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.010
making sure that everybody matters in,
561
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.050
in terms decisions being made. I.
562
00:35:40.710 --> 00:35:45.480
I have a theory about the local government in the era that I was in local
563
00:35:45.481 --> 00:35:49.440
government. The men were driven by monetizing the buildings.
564
00:35:49.441 --> 00:35:53.520
They saw them in terms of return on investment cranes,
565
00:35:53.670 --> 00:35:57.940
lettable floor areas. They didn't actually really care about the design,
566
00:35:57.970 --> 00:36:01.650
the appearance or the usefulness or the interest dis-ease.
567
00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:05.790
Whereas I think in my generation, particularly it may change.
568
00:36:06.180 --> 00:36:10.710
Women are outside the system and they loiter and look
569
00:36:10.770 --> 00:36:14.220
outside the buildings. They walk, they push babies in prams.
570
00:36:14.221 --> 00:36:18.390
They sit around outside, they go shopping and they're in a different space.
571
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.900
And whilst time don't think I'm a victim.
572
00:36:21.930 --> 00:36:25.530
I grew up at a time where I was not fearful,
573
00:36:25.531 --> 00:36:30.120
but I was aware of the surroundings enough to be a little
574
00:36:30.121 --> 00:36:34.500
bit anxious about the lighting, the bushes, people jumping out.
575
00:36:35.910 --> 00:36:37.080
I'm not saying I'm fearful,
576
00:36:37.081 --> 00:36:41.160
but I think that I'm more aware of between the buildings,
577
00:36:41.700 --> 00:36:46.500
the livability of the urban space and the appearance from
578
00:36:46.501 --> 00:36:50.880
outside. And I have been criticized over the years for it saying,
579
00:36:50.881 --> 00:36:54.720
you know why we can't have those Kailua chairs. They're beautiful,
580
00:36:54.721 --> 00:36:57.060
but they got metal strips. Have you done the bomb test?
581
00:36:57.090 --> 00:36:59.160
Can you sit on them on a hot day? You know,
582
00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:03.570
that kind of trivial stuff that men don't see because they see the
583
00:37:03.571 --> 00:37:06.570
buildings, not the comfort and the ease.
584
00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:11.070
And I think that's one of the differences I've noticed in the way I operate,
585
00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:16.470
which is more in the detail of what it's like to be in
586
00:37:16.471 --> 00:37:20.340
the wind tunnel in the sun, in the heat out there.
587
00:37:20.341 --> 00:37:22.890
And I think that's one of the things that women bring,
588
00:37:23.670 --> 00:37:24.900
maybe the next generation,
589
00:37:24.901 --> 00:37:29.010
it won't be just women who look at the foot path and with the crossovers with
590
00:37:29.011 --> 00:37:31.980
friends, maybe that everyone will do it. Maybe that's a good thing.
591
00:37:31.981 --> 00:37:32.910
I'd love it to happen.
592
00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:37.110
But at the moment I think women bring a different set of experiences.
593
00:37:37.950 --> 00:37:41.420
So the architectural experience too well from.
594
00:37:41.540 --> 00:37:45.680
The urban design perspective, I think it's really true.
595
00:37:45.681 --> 00:37:48.950
And I was just, I'm not dissing that. You know,
596
00:37:49.010 --> 00:37:52.010
women are interested in different things in different topics.
597
00:37:52.250 --> 00:37:54.290
So the other day I made an experiment.
598
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:59.120
I was looking for talks given by women related to urban
599
00:37:59.121 --> 00:38:00.920
design and landscape architecture.
600
00:38:00.921 --> 00:38:05.480
So I looked through the TEDS talk online. And of course in this,
601
00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:10.520
interestingly that the number of talks given by women on that topic are
602
00:38:11.330 --> 00:38:15.590
significantly lower than the numbers of talks given by men.
603
00:38:15.591 --> 00:38:20.510
But what is interesting is most of the talks given by women,
604
00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:25.550
women is about streetscape design, urban farming,
605
00:38:25.850 --> 00:38:30.590
greening the city, urban revitalization, especially in, in,
606
00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:35.620
in of neighborhoods of local small neighborhoods and for
607
00:38:36.790 --> 00:38:39.850
disabilities. So it's all true. It is, you know,
608
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:44.500
w w what we've heard, yes, the focus is absolutely different.
609
00:38:44.770 --> 00:38:46.240
So, and all this,
610
00:38:46.241 --> 00:38:50.560
these interests are related to me to one quality that women have,
611
00:38:50.590 --> 00:38:55.510
which is empathy. So the capacity of listening and understanding the others,
612
00:38:55.511 --> 00:38:59.890
and it's something that we can not delete in 1, 2, 3 generations.
613
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:03.280
We have, have been doing this for years, you know,
614
00:39:03.281 --> 00:39:06.460
looking after the elder Lee,
615
00:39:07.090 --> 00:39:11.280
looking after a kid, the little kids et cetera,
616
00:39:11.350 --> 00:39:12.700
taking care of the family.
617
00:39:12.940 --> 00:39:16.510
So it's something that we've learned in several centuries of.
618
00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:20.250
To add to that, because I do feel it's, I sometimes get.
619
00:39:20.250 --> 00:39:23.580
A little bit uncomfortable when women's contribution is characterized as
620
00:39:23.581 --> 00:39:24.660
something that's maternal,
621
00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:28.170
but I think a lot of the language that was being used there about being more
622
00:39:28.171 --> 00:39:32.070
sensitive, and I don't totally disagree,
623
00:39:32.071 --> 00:39:35.340
but I think it is it, we need to be careful that we're not neces,
624
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.880
we're stereotyping ourselves no contribution. And I'd also like to say,
625
00:39:38.881 --> 00:39:40.380
I think things are changing.
626
00:39:40.381 --> 00:39:44.970
The conversations that we have with architects across the city and was
627
00:39:44.971 --> 00:39:49.230
interstate colleagues, is that while the conversation may be started by,
628
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:52.980
you know, someone with different sensibilities in the room, the discussion is,
629
00:39:53.190 --> 00:39:56.580
you know, different people are making a contribution to that discussion.
630
00:39:56.660 --> 00:39:59.280
So is the, maybe a raising of awareness, but I think,
631
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:02.400
I think it is actually changing. I think there's changing here.
632
00:40:03.030 --> 00:40:07.710
So w we knowledge then that women have got a significant contribution to make,
633
00:40:07.711 --> 00:40:10.470
and that it has, it comes from for whatever reason,
634
00:40:10.471 --> 00:40:14.520
but perhaps from a different angle. So why are we so bad at it? I mean,
635
00:40:14.730 --> 00:40:18.510
picking up your your point about the number of women who are involved in
636
00:40:18.511 --> 00:40:21.510
architecture, who actually practicing architects. I mean,
637
00:40:21.511 --> 00:40:24.990
other professions have got really got much stronger representation. Now,
638
00:40:24.991 --> 00:40:29.130
there are women on the high court what what's going,
639
00:40:29.190 --> 00:40:33.060
what's going on for architecture, do you think it's I think there's.
640
00:40:33.060 --> 00:40:37.590
Probably a few things going on. Women are often, I think, overlooked,
641
00:40:37.591 --> 00:40:41.160
and there's an apparent, lack of experience if women do that,
642
00:40:41.161 --> 00:40:45.480
take time off to take a career break, to,
643
00:40:45.481 --> 00:40:49.560
to start a family. And that can lead to a lack of confidence.
644
00:40:49.561 --> 00:40:52.890
And then the knock-on may be that they might not get registered and then they
645
00:40:52.891 --> 00:40:56.430
might not be, you know, the career might not be working out. It's the way they,
646
00:40:56.730 --> 00:41:00.780
they thought it might. There's a culture of not supporting flexible working.
647
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.290
That's changing in government now, which is fantastic,
648
00:41:04.291 --> 00:41:06.240
but I know there's a long way to go in the profession.
649
00:41:07.590 --> 00:41:12.030
And there are a few practices out there now who actually proactively managed
650
00:41:12.031 --> 00:41:15.000
returning to work, which I think is a really big issue.
651
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.320
And pay inequality is is, is still a problem.
652
00:41:19.321 --> 00:41:22.500
And really shouldn't be in this day and age, but, but it certainly is.
653
00:41:22.501 --> 00:41:23.340
So I think there's,
654
00:41:23.700 --> 00:41:28.410
there are some combination of things that put women off continuing their
655
00:41:28.411 --> 00:41:32.430
career in architecture, and then apply their education to,
656
00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:33.530
to other areas.
657
00:41:34.340 --> 00:41:36.960
And in governance, in taking on the role of, of,
658
00:41:37.230 --> 00:41:39.380
of decision-making what's getting in the way.
659
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:43.510
I was going to say about, you know, why aren't there more architects,
660
00:41:43.540 --> 00:41:46.390
there are doctors and lawyers, why isn't that more equal?
661
00:41:46.630 --> 00:41:51.520
Partly it's because it's really hard. It's really hard to build a building.
662
00:41:51.580 --> 00:41:53.500
It might take 10 years.
663
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.840
It's the most complex thing to make cities it's controversial.
664
00:41:59.170 --> 00:42:04.090
It involves managing usually multiple stakeholders. It's hard.
665
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.240
Men love doing it. If they're good at it,
666
00:42:07.270 --> 00:42:11.860
they're not going to move over easily and lose the opportunity.
667
00:42:11.950 --> 00:42:15.130
Opportunities are relatively rare.
668
00:42:15.640 --> 00:42:19.420
More women seem to choose landscape architecture.
669
00:42:19.720 --> 00:42:23.920
It's an urban design. The spaces between the buildings. That's a bit easier,
670
00:42:24.310 --> 00:42:27.130
you know, Zahara did who won the Pritzker prize,
671
00:42:27.131 --> 00:42:30.580
which is like the Nobel prize. She said,
672
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:35.320
it took her 20 years to actually get a building built in
673
00:42:35.321 --> 00:42:39.190
London, despite her obvious genius,
674
00:42:39.191 --> 00:42:43.480
really whether or not you like her work. And she said,
675
00:42:43.510 --> 00:42:47.080
I think I could build a skyscraper too. You know,
676
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:50.800
it's being able to have to have the chance.
677
00:42:52.660 --> 00:42:53.440
Environments working well.
678
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:55.750
The challenges are there are, you know,
679
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.230
the projects are complex and difficult to deliver and you have to be persistent
680
00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:01.540
and long, but I think it's more,
681
00:43:01.870 --> 00:43:04.390
how long can you work in that environment when you're actually,
682
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.140
you're constantly challenged by the construction sector? You know,
683
00:43:08.141 --> 00:43:10.990
you can be supported by your colleagues in the practice that you've chosen to
684
00:43:10.991 --> 00:43:15.880
work in, but actually to be in the construction sector and working with people,
685
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:20.830
perhaps who aren't as open-minded or as accepting or supporting that's tough.
686
00:43:21.580 --> 00:43:24.520
The challenge of delivering a building is equal to every architect,
687
00:43:24.521 --> 00:43:28.270
but I think it's actually what you put yourself through to see a project built
688
00:43:28.271 --> 00:43:29.470
can be really quite hard.
689
00:43:30.730 --> 00:43:35.530
I think in urban design is the same and it's, it's hard.
690
00:43:35.540 --> 00:43:38.170
It's really difficult, but things are changing.
691
00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:42.640
So the first woman to win a drum pre deliver bunnies,
692
00:43:42.700 --> 00:43:47.440
which in Europe is the equivalent to a Pritzker prize or a Nobel for urban
693
00:43:47.441 --> 00:43:51.100
design and urban ism is,
694
00:43:51.130 --> 00:43:54.880
was in 2013, Paul Levy. So we have,
695
00:43:54.910 --> 00:43:58.300
we see that things are improving little bit, you know, there's a lot to do,
696
00:43:58.301 --> 00:44:00.190
but things are happening.
697
00:44:00.191 --> 00:44:03.460
And also women are more into that.
698
00:44:04.090 --> 00:44:08.110
No doubt I'm knowledge for their work also for their collective work,
699
00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:10.870
not just for single individual authorship.
700
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.330
Jane genomics Smith,
701
00:44:13.540 --> 00:44:17.650
as you talked about earlier with me about the fact that you took on the role
702
00:44:17.651 --> 00:44:20.230
when your children were very small and they impact that head on
703
00:44:21.930 --> 00:44:24.670
the capacity to make a contribution. You want to talk about that?
704
00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:25.960
Yeah.
705
00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:29.830
So we've spoken a lot about how to encourage more people into local government,
706
00:44:29.831 --> 00:44:32.940
particularly. And I think there are of enablers and inhibitors.
707
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:37.200
The biggest enabler in south Australia for me was the fact that there was
708
00:44:37.230 --> 00:44:40.380
childcare fee payment by the council.
709
00:44:40.890 --> 00:44:44.040
And people are sometimes shocked that that occurs, but frankly,
710
00:44:44.041 --> 00:44:46.350
I would not have joined the council without it. My,
711
00:44:46.410 --> 00:44:48.480
my youngest son was one year old. My was,
712
00:44:48.481 --> 00:44:53.370
was three years old and you can't count on husbands to
713
00:44:53.371 --> 00:44:57.090
be there, to get them out of childcare on time you get fined, you know,
714
00:44:57.091 --> 00:44:59.670
you need help. If you've got evening meetings,
715
00:44:59.671 --> 00:45:03.660
all the meetings were in the evening. I needed help. And at the time, you know,
716
00:45:03.661 --> 00:45:04.710
30 years ago,
717
00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:09.150
I wasn't as financially comfortable as I am now.
718
00:45:09.180 --> 00:45:11.130
I just could not have afforded all the targets.
719
00:45:11.131 --> 00:45:12.900
So that childcare was a great enabler.
720
00:45:14.670 --> 00:45:18.180
The other thing that I think is an enabler is there's no law, no politics,
721
00:45:18.181 --> 00:45:20.820
no political parties in local government. And believe me,
722
00:45:20.821 --> 00:45:22.620
if the boys are doing the pre-selection,
723
00:45:22.621 --> 00:45:26.340
the girls don't get in the fact that you can, self-nominate,
724
00:45:26.430 --> 00:45:30.240
it's a great opportunity for women. So that's another enabler. Also,
725
00:45:30.241 --> 00:45:31.410
the electorates are small.
726
00:45:31.411 --> 00:45:35.400
So the startup costs and opportunities or easier to get into
727
00:45:36.570 --> 00:45:40.350
the difficulties I think getting into local government
728
00:45:41.580 --> 00:45:42.413
are
729
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.400
really to do with your own decision to be involved. And
730
00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:53.430
I think that local government is so attractive because for women,
731
00:45:53.431 --> 00:45:55.560
particularly you have a huge impact.
732
00:45:56.910 --> 00:46:00.960
And so I think that when it's hard and it's difficult and you want to do
733
00:46:00.961 --> 00:46:04.260
something, then it's really not an inhibitor. You'll just get on and do it.
734
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.890
I think the only, the only observation I'd make,
735
00:46:07.891 --> 00:46:12.630
and I hate to be a killjoy on this sort of day of joy about women being equally
736
00:46:12.631 --> 00:46:13.464
represented.
737
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:18.420
I think that maybe the men have realized it's not the seat of power it used
738
00:46:18.421 --> 00:46:22.290
to be, and they have stopped kicking us out of the way. Believe me,
739
00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:25.710
they'd put their feet on our throats if they thought it was important.
740
00:46:25.890 --> 00:46:30.690
And basically in this state that Mo most of the planning
741
00:46:30.691 --> 00:46:34.680
power has been removed in state governments involved in, you know,
742
00:46:34.950 --> 00:46:39.210
licensing food trucks. So in reality,
743
00:46:39.211 --> 00:46:42.510
the captains of industry just make political donations and speak to the
744
00:46:42.511 --> 00:46:46.590
ministers. And so they've cleared the way for us. And so we've,
745
00:46:46.591 --> 00:46:49.440
we've got to not think that this is a joyful occasion,
746
00:46:49.520 --> 00:46:53.730
and we've got to take over state government take over the federal parliament and
747
00:46:54.120 --> 00:46:55.080
go up the food chain.
748
00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:00.410
I.
749
00:47:00.410 --> 00:47:02.120
Think that's a bit of a cool direction actually,
750
00:47:02.121 --> 00:47:04.460
because the number of women that we spoke to this morning,
751
00:47:04.461 --> 00:47:07.070
who are all feeling the same way about it and thinking, well, you know,
752
00:47:07.100 --> 00:47:08.600
if we actually organize,
753
00:47:08.601 --> 00:47:11.930
if we get organized and we can perhaps start to take back some of that power,
754
00:47:11.931 --> 00:47:14.000
and I think that's exactly what local government ought to be doing.
755
00:47:14.001 --> 00:47:16.340
So thank you for that comment.
756
00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:21.200
The other thing I wanted to get people's to comment on just briefly was also,
757
00:47:21.230 --> 00:47:25.820
we've talked about to some extent how how men don't facilitate, you know,
758
00:47:25.821 --> 00:47:27.890
you're saying that they've got,
759
00:47:27.950 --> 00:47:30.580
they're only prepared to get out our way when they think it's not important.
760
00:47:31.570 --> 00:47:33.850
Because, you know, I know you've, you've had a good experience too,
761
00:47:33.870 --> 00:47:38.350
and you've spoke to me prior to the session about the way that men can
762
00:47:38.351 --> 00:47:41.620
facilitate and can assist with them. And do you want to comment about that?
763
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:45.720
Yeah. I've had a very positive experience within my own department,
764
00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:47.610
which is planning, transport and infrastructure,
765
00:47:47.611 --> 00:47:51.300
where we had a new chief executive who came in and could see them as a real
766
00:47:51.301 --> 00:47:55.980
problem with the demographic should I say, at the executive level,
767
00:47:56.280 --> 00:48:01.050
and was very determined to be able to to make sure that there was gender balance
768
00:48:01.051 --> 00:48:02.130
in his executive team,
769
00:48:02.131 --> 00:48:06.270
but he also practically went out and saw younger talent as well.
770
00:48:06.570 --> 00:48:09.540
So I think if you have that, open-minded CE who they,
771
00:48:09.600 --> 00:48:11.970
it goes back again to that you need, you know,
772
00:48:12.030 --> 00:48:15.150
it helps if you're empowered to then be able to influence change.
773
00:48:15.270 --> 00:48:19.050
Like he elevated a lot of women up to senior roles in his department,
774
00:48:19.230 --> 00:48:22.320
but then importantly, so you can break the glass ceiling,
775
00:48:22.350 --> 00:48:24.810
but you also need the support once you're there.
776
00:48:24.870 --> 00:48:27.870
So it can't just be that you get nominated into position.
777
00:48:27.871 --> 00:48:31.410
Then your left is to fight out. You actually need to continue that, you know,
778
00:48:31.411 --> 00:48:33.180
there needs to be continued support. And I've,
779
00:48:33.380 --> 00:48:37.020
I've found that that's also driven cultural change within the department in
780
00:48:37.021 --> 00:48:38.670
quite a short period of time.
781
00:48:40.391 --> 00:48:41.700
I'm going to throw the questions in a minute,
782
00:48:41.701 --> 00:48:46.020
but I just thought I'd ask each of the women to on the panel before I do that,
783
00:48:46.021 --> 00:48:49.650
just to to quickly mention one, each,
784
00:48:49.710 --> 00:48:54.000
a woman who you think has made a contribution to the building of cities one of
785
00:48:54.120 --> 00:48:56.940
one or many of the cities that you love and why,
786
00:48:56.970 --> 00:48:59.550
so if I could just go down the panel and then I'll,
787
00:48:59.560 --> 00:49:03.150
I'll see whether there's anyone who'd like to make some to ask some questions.
788
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:04.050
I'll be.
789
00:49:04.050 --> 00:49:06.810
Well, I think I have to say Mary and Marnie Griffin,
790
00:49:07.290 --> 00:49:11.070
who it's now recognized with Walter Burley Griffin
791
00:49:12.390 --> 00:49:17.370
is really the author of our national capital. The idea that was Canberra.
792
00:49:18.090 --> 00:49:20.520
She's a really fascinating woman, which I,
793
00:49:20.550 --> 00:49:24.270
who I write about a little bit tragically. She was just,
794
00:49:24.271 --> 00:49:27.330
she is buried in a porpoise grave in Chicago.
795
00:49:27.630 --> 00:49:31.110
There's not a statue in Canberra of Mary and Manny Griffin.
796
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:35.760
And one of the really interesting things I read a lot of books about her was
797
00:49:35.761 --> 00:49:40.020
that actually, she got the competition entry into the post on time.
798
00:49:40.290 --> 00:49:44.760
So that had never been even in it without Marianne,
799
00:49:44.761 --> 00:49:49.620
apart from her beautiful renderings of, of what that city could be.
800
00:49:50.220 --> 00:49:50.430
Well.
801
00:49:50.430 --> 00:49:53.640
A local example. I don't think you can go past Diana Laidlaw.
802
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:57.690
I think she was incredible. She stuck to it.
803
00:49:57.750 --> 00:50:02.370
She never gave up, she had attention for detail. She got the money.
804
00:50:03.060 --> 00:50:05.820
And at the end of the day, if you don't get the money, you can't do anything.
805
00:50:05.910 --> 00:50:08.730
You have lots of ideas, but you've got to extract the money.
806
00:50:08.731 --> 00:50:13.500
She got the money and she waited and fought
807
00:50:13.590 --> 00:50:16.110
and she produced some amazing buildings in this town.
808
00:50:16.111 --> 00:50:20.520
You look at the art gallery that's a lot more money than any treasurer wanted to
809
00:50:20.521 --> 00:50:23.910
spend, and she did it and everything she touched,
810
00:50:23.911 --> 00:50:28.640
she thought about she fought about and she never let the
811
00:50:28.641 --> 00:50:32.360
experts tell her what was so wonderful.
812
00:50:32.361 --> 00:50:36.170
I've got great respect for experts, but a lot of men in public life.
813
00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:38.300
So with the architects designed it, we wouldn't do that.
814
00:50:38.301 --> 00:50:40.010
If it was your own house, knew the customer.
815
00:50:40.310 --> 00:50:44.870
She always put herself in the position of the client and she would hang out till
816
00:50:44.871 --> 00:50:47.900
the best solution was there. I just have nothing but admiration for her.
817
00:50:49.090 --> 00:50:49.923
Elisa.
818
00:50:50.470 --> 00:50:55.210
I have a few ma names in mind and both in urban design or,
819
00:50:55.600 --> 00:50:58.120
and landscape architecture. But I would like to say,
820
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:02.050
I'd like to remind all the women that have been in the last years have been
821
00:51:02.290 --> 00:51:06.100
working hard to make our cities better place to live,
822
00:51:06.130 --> 00:51:09.010
because there are so many girls,
823
00:51:09.011 --> 00:51:13.570
ladies that have been doing that job, a hard job. You know,
824
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:19.030
that to me is really important to remind collective
825
00:51:19.060 --> 00:51:22.930
constant work of, you know, of that
826
00:51:24.460 --> 00:51:24.910
Jews on,
827
00:51:24.910 --> 00:51:29.530
on how to improve our space is more important than
828
00:51:29.531 --> 00:51:31.510
reminding single people.
829
00:51:33.330 --> 00:51:35.710
Who are doing good work in Adelaide. But another city,
830
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.400
I love very much London where I spent most of my career.
831
00:51:39.700 --> 00:51:41.740
And you mentioned the formative experience.
832
00:51:41.741 --> 00:51:44.590
I had marks Barfield who designed the London eye,
833
00:51:44.591 --> 00:51:49.150
and I want to mention two women if I can January and I can Julia Barfield.
834
00:51:49.240 --> 00:51:54.130
So Jane Warnick was actually the engineer behind the the structural gymnastics
835
00:51:54.131 --> 00:51:55.450
of the, of the whale.
836
00:51:55.451 --> 00:51:58.900
She was Arabs at the time and then went off to work on her own and Julia
837
00:51:58.901 --> 00:52:02.020
Barfield. So one half of Mark's Barfield,
838
00:52:02.380 --> 00:52:06.910
but both of them together actually not only made it look as good as it does now.
839
00:52:06.911 --> 00:52:10.300
And that was a, there was a lot of work in making it look as simple as it does.
840
00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:14.590
But they actually initiated the project as well. So they sought the funding,
841
00:52:14.591 --> 00:52:15.424
they got all,
842
00:52:15.640 --> 00:52:20.500
they overcame all of the illegal and property obstructions that
843
00:52:20.501 --> 00:52:23.050
came with building over the Thames and building over the Queens walk.
844
00:52:23.050 --> 00:52:25.090
So they were inspirational.
845
00:52:25.750 --> 00:52:30.100
And th the significance of that project is not just that it's now a new London
846
00:52:30.101 --> 00:52:33.970
icon, but at the time nobody was using the south bank in London.
847
00:52:34.180 --> 00:52:37.330
So they also stage in argument,
848
00:52:37.331 --> 00:52:42.190
which was 80% of tourists crossing Westminster bridge were turning their back to
849
00:52:42.191 --> 00:52:44.710
big bend to take the photograph and then go back into,
850
00:52:45.600 --> 00:52:47.410
to the north side of the Thames.
851
00:52:47.411 --> 00:52:49.600
But actually what was on offer in the site bank,
852
00:52:49.601 --> 00:52:53.320
if you could get people over where major cultural institutions and national
853
00:52:53.321 --> 00:52:56.500
theater led to bang side. So that,
854
00:52:56.560 --> 00:53:01.270
that one project has had an influence from Westminster to blindside all the way
855
00:53:01.271 --> 00:53:02.440
to London bridges and had,
856
00:53:02.500 --> 00:53:06.880
and has had a huge impact in terms of economic and cultural regeneration.
857
00:53:06.881 --> 00:53:10.680
So they're pretty extraordinary women. Yeah. So.
858
00:53:10.720 --> 00:53:13.480
Audience members, we've got a microphone up there.
859
00:53:13.810 --> 00:53:15.310
Anybody who'd like to ask a question,
860
00:53:15.311 --> 00:53:20.230
can you please go up and stand at the microphone and and ask away
861
00:53:21.700 --> 00:53:24.760
so I can see a hand up, but if you could just go up.
862
00:53:26.700 --> 00:53:28.920
Thank you, Megan. And thank you ladies.
863
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:34.590
I want to be a little bit provocative and it's a topic that's been mentioned in
864
00:53:34.591 --> 00:53:38.430
passing by several of you Jane in particular.
865
00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:43.740
It's regarding open space and the city of Adelaide.
866
00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:49.040
So it's a little bit parochial. The is,
867
00:53:49.160 --> 00:53:50.160
is open space,
868
00:53:50.190 --> 00:53:54.990
just a 19th century anachronism that we can
869
00:53:55.290 --> 00:53:56.610
get rid of. Now,
870
00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:01.680
that seems to be the thinking
871
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.460
by men at the state level.
872
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.610
Can we get some questions, get some answers to that? Well, I.
873
00:54:10.610 --> 00:54:14.090
Would say no on the contrary in fact,
874
00:54:14.091 --> 00:54:16.610
my book really the motivation is,
875
00:54:16.640 --> 00:54:21.230
was to talk about how important open space or
876
00:54:21.231 --> 00:54:24.890
shared space is in cities.
877
00:54:25.850 --> 00:54:28.730
So I would say globally,
878
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:31.250
there's an interest in urban design.
879
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:36.170
There's more focus in a way in urban design and not just the
880
00:54:36.171 --> 00:54:41.150
design of a building and how that will be plumped into the city,
881
00:54:41.540 --> 00:54:46.160
but actually how it can also contribute to the
882
00:54:46.161 --> 00:54:47.180
shared space,
883
00:54:47.181 --> 00:54:52.130
the street space equally the making of
884
00:54:52.131 --> 00:54:55.160
green space. We used to talk about pocket parks.
885
00:54:56.540 --> 00:55:00.080
And that terms probably not used as much now, although I love it actually,
886
00:55:00.081 --> 00:55:02.030
the opportunity to make a pocket park.
887
00:55:04.100 --> 00:55:06.680
It's so important in Adelaide.
888
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:10.850
I know that there's a degree of apartment living in the city,
889
00:55:11.240 --> 00:55:12.590
in other cities.
890
00:55:12.591 --> 00:55:16.730
There's probably even more and therefore public space,
891
00:55:16.790 --> 00:55:20.300
open space is so important and
892
00:55:21.110 --> 00:55:22.850
activism is needed.
893
00:55:22.940 --> 00:55:27.230
All of you to keep the Parklands a green belt. I mean,
894
00:55:27.260 --> 00:55:32.240
Jane's done her bit, so it needs to continue. It must,
895
00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:32.780
it's,
896
00:55:32.780 --> 00:55:37.520
Adelaide's most distinctive and wonderful quality
897
00:55:38.330 --> 00:55:39.920
green space. If I can.
898
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.440
Add just a tiny little plug for the Adelaide city council,
899
00:55:42.710 --> 00:55:45.770
we've just started a process where we will now, for anything that happens,
900
00:55:45.771 --> 00:55:50.570
we will be always looking at whether the I'm measuring any
901
00:55:50.571 --> 00:55:53.180
decrease in the Parkland so that we can measure that.
902
00:55:53.780 --> 00:55:55.730
And mainly so that we,
903
00:55:56.030 --> 00:56:01.010
as a stick to beat the state with so that we can make sure that we are always
904
00:56:01.011 --> 00:56:01.791
looking first of all,
905
00:56:01.791 --> 00:56:05.720
for return to Parklands where it's available and and making sure that,
906
00:56:05.990 --> 00:56:08.690
that we are the, any decreases visible,
907
00:56:08.720 --> 00:56:12.800
because I don't think there's too many people in our state who want to see any
908
00:56:12.801 --> 00:56:14.960
decrease in our Parkland space. There's a,
909
00:56:15.020 --> 00:56:17.540
there's some good neuroscience around this now, too,
910
00:56:17.570 --> 00:56:20.060
that people need those green spaces to get to.
911
00:56:20.330 --> 00:56:24.430
And it's part of the it's part of wellbeing. So we're very hold on it,
912
00:56:24.730 --> 00:56:25.563
next question.
913
00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:28.510
Thank you. May I search it,
914
00:56:28.720 --> 00:56:32.980
pay a proposal practical example central market
915
00:56:33.970 --> 00:56:37.450
center market is part of Adelaide's heritage.
916
00:56:38.350 --> 00:56:43.150
It's one of Adelaide's pantries and also one of other
917
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:47.440
light living rooms. So may I ask,
918
00:56:48.310 --> 00:56:52.720
as women may ask your perspective from a planning
919
00:56:52.810 --> 00:56:56.320
and an architectural point of view about this redevelopment.
920
00:56:56.440 --> 00:57:01.230
Thank you. Probably feel more strongly about that the most. Well,
921
00:57:01.231 --> 00:57:03.720
I feel strongly about the Parklands, you know, I forget me going,
922
00:57:03.721 --> 00:57:06.780
I'll be telling you it's not cheap land. It's priceless.
923
00:57:06.781 --> 00:57:08.850
So I'm with you stand in front of the bulldozers.
924
00:57:09.390 --> 00:57:13.410
The PA the central market is interesting because I've always grown up with
925
00:57:13.411 --> 00:57:16.320
markets and I like it to be slightly earthy and a bit untidy.
926
00:57:16.321 --> 00:57:19.350
I think the worst thing that could happen to the market will be to redevelop it,
927
00:57:19.351 --> 00:57:22.680
to turn it into a sterile supermarket, like a Westfield
928
00:57:26.790 --> 00:57:30.540
[inaudible]. And the other observation I'd make is that every now and again,
929
00:57:30.541 --> 00:57:31.710
someone comes up with the idea.
930
00:57:31.711 --> 00:57:34.980
They're going to build a tower with residential and more car parking over the
931
00:57:34.981 --> 00:57:36.270
top. It's perennial.
932
00:57:36.271 --> 00:57:40.320
It's actually one of the things I fought on my first council election, 1991.
933
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:42.090
The point is, if you do that,
934
00:57:42.091 --> 00:57:44.550
you'll have to build pylons through the shopping center.
935
00:57:44.580 --> 00:57:49.530
You'll put at least 40 stalls out of business and they will never come back.
936
00:57:50.100 --> 00:57:54.030
So I actually am very conservative. I love new buildings.
937
00:57:54.031 --> 00:57:56.430
I love new development. I like to do lots of good things,
938
00:57:56.431 --> 00:57:58.590
provided the open space and the Parklands are preserved,
939
00:57:58.740 --> 00:58:02.610
but the central market should not be redeveloped.
940
00:58:02.611 --> 00:58:06.180
It's seen as cheap land. They've got the air space,
941
00:58:06.200 --> 00:58:09.510
people salivate over it, and we should stop it happening.
942
00:58:13.410 --> 00:58:14.243
Next question.
943
00:58:16.830 --> 00:58:19.650
We're on a rural council, Claire and Gerbert valleys.
944
00:58:19.830 --> 00:58:24.300
Somebody has to live there. It's it's, God's, it's God's own earth,
945
00:58:24.600 --> 00:58:28.740
but a number of times in the conversation here,
946
00:58:28.741 --> 00:58:33.390
we've talked about the difference way that women make
947
00:58:33.391 --> 00:58:34.290
decisions.
948
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:36.233
And.
949
00:58:37.020 --> 00:58:40.830
I believe that if men
950
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:46.140
took the same process, where when male men make decisions,
951
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:50.430
you have a problem, they find a solution. Bang, let's go.
952
00:58:52.140 --> 00:58:53.940
I find blood observing.
953
00:58:53.941 --> 00:58:57.780
When women might start going through the decision-making process,
954
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:00.540
you'll have a problem. There's a solution.
955
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:05.700
Pause what ramifications to people,
956
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:10.350
processes or infrastructure will my solution
957
00:59:10.380 --> 00:59:13.710
impact on if there's too many negatives,
958
00:59:13.740 --> 00:59:15.990
they go back and work through it again.
959
00:59:17.010 --> 00:59:21.980
Do you believe that if this process was increased,
960
00:59:21.981 --> 00:59:25.340
in other words, men started thinking a lot more like this,
961
00:59:25.790 --> 00:59:29.240
that we would have better spaces,
962
00:59:29.570 --> 00:59:33.260
better buildings that met the needs of communities.
963
00:59:34.340 --> 00:59:36.080
Who would like to come in on that one. We both work.
964
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:38.590
Can I just warn.
965
00:59:38.590 --> 00:59:41.080
The speakers, her lining up before we do?
966
00:59:41.380 --> 00:59:44.350
I think we might have to make that our last question. I'm sorry,
967
00:59:44.351 --> 00:59:47.170
because of the time constraints, but let's have an answer.
968
00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:49.000
I'll have two answers. I'll be really quick.
969
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:52.570
Don't lose the idea of the central market is Adelaide's pantry.
970
00:59:52.571 --> 00:59:56.710
It's a brilliant idea and way of describing it. I think
971
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:03.730
men and men can have that sensibility of thinking in the
972
01:00:03.731 --> 01:00:08.560
way that you've described. I do think women default to,
973
01:00:08.620 --> 01:00:10.180
to thinking in that way,
974
01:00:10.510 --> 01:00:14.260
but the best male architects
975
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:18.040
problem-solvers also can do that.
976
01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:22.660
It's possible to teach the young generation how to do that. Yes.
977
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.370
It's about everything space.
978
01:00:24.370 --> 01:00:27.010
Decision-Making and it's about a scientific background.
979
01:00:27.011 --> 01:00:28.660
I think everyone should be able to do it.
980
01:00:28.990 --> 01:00:32.320
I think what you're highlighting is the fact that sometimes men have been in a
981
01:00:32.321 --> 01:00:34.810
position of power for too long. They get a little bit arrogant,
982
01:00:35.140 --> 01:00:36.490
but one of the downsides of course,
983
01:00:36.491 --> 01:00:40.450
of having 50% women in councils is that you might end up with some that are as
984
01:00:40.451 --> 01:00:45.400
mediocre as the men that they sit. And we thought about that.
985
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:46.330
So.
986
01:00:46.330 --> 01:00:47.860
On that cheerful note,
987
01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:51.970
I wonder if you could help join me in thanking our panel speakers
988
01:00:55.900 --> 01:00:57.340
again, I've just got a few houses.