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<v Gordon>Firstly, I want to do the the garner welcome.</v>

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And this is the first time I've ever done it actually.

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I acknowledge that today we are gathered on the traditional country of the Ghana

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people at the Adelaide Plains. We recognize and respect the cultural heritage.

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Excuse me, I'm getting over a cold beliefs and relationships with the land.

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We acknowledged that these are of continuing importance to the garner people

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living today, and that we respect their elders past and present.

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So we get the word elders again,

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and it is that a lot of indigenous cultures actually have this honoring

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of the eldest don't they? And I'm not sure that in our culture,

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that's quite the case at the moment.

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So perhaps this is an opportunity to explore that for toilets,

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for anybody who might need them, they're downstairs.

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And it's a bit of a zigzag corridor. They're reasonably now well kept,

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but they're downstairs. If you need to get

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the we've got a Twitter handle. Well, I put together for this and I thought,

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given we're talking about new lives,

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it might be an opportunity to for people to actually Twitter in,

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has anybody got smartphones here and the ability to Twitter, any hands,

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a few. Okay. for those who don't,

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I'd like to make a contribution because I know that that kind of frustration you

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have because we're going to have a Q and a session after all the speakers are

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presented and often people have their ideas and they want to talk about them

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during, or just at the end of when the speaker's been on.

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That can be a little frustrating.

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I'm going to put this pad out here with a pen again,

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don't feel shy. If you don't have a Twitter account, you can just come out,

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tear a piece of paper off and drop it back to us.

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And I wanted to engage you a little today after the session,

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after the speakers about your experiences of getting older and

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anybody here, who's developed a new life and might want to share it.

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And you also might want to have,

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you might have some questions you want to ask as well.

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So feel free to either on the Twitter account or the paper,

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or there'd be an opportunity when people finish speaking to actually stand up

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and ask you a question.

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One more the issues that came up

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for me in the discussions with the panel last month was

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that new lives for older people sounds like it's got a lot of promise.

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Whereas in fact,

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an awful lot of older people are going to face real challenges and they won't

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have enough income. They can't pay their electricity bills.

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They may not have a stable place to live.

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So we're going to tackle that issue as well here.

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It's not all rosy futures and iPads. So

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yes. And the first speaker we're going to have is Helen, Dr. Helen Barrie,

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Helen.

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His research has focused on Australia's changing population and the implications

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of this for society and communities,

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much of this work involves an examination of population diversity and the

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interaction between the built environment and aging populations. So Helen,

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I'd like to invite you to present.

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<v Dr Helen Barrie>Thank you.</v>

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I guess being the sort of demographer in the room,

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I tend to take a big picture about population aging.

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So I'm starting to, by painting that big picture,

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and then my fellow colleagues here are going to drill down a little bit on that.

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But the question I wanted to ask first is, well, how old is old?

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What are we, what is old to us in this day and age?

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We all grow older from the moment we born, we are growing older.

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So when do we become old?

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At what point is it that magic 65 that was invented as the

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retirement age over a century ago?

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Is it something different this day and age?

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And I think what we have to do is acknowledge that longevity has been an amazing

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achievement for humankind.

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We have come such a long way in such a short time

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in our ability to grow older,

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nearly every country in the world is now facing an aging

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population of one kind or another.

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For the first time in human history,

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we are approaching a time where there are going to be more older people on the

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planet than there are younger people on the planet. More people aged 50.

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Then there are people under 15 for the first time in human history.

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So this is a remarkable time to be alive and to be growing older,

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but it needs, it needs some thinking. It needs some innovation.

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We need to rethink how we think about aging.

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And there's been a lot of thought about that over the last 20 to 30 years.

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And we've seen some big global movements.

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So we've seen things like successful aging, productive, aging,

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active aging,

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all these themes and terms that have been rolled out.

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But I have a little bit of trouble with some of those because not everybody's

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going to be successful. Not everybody's going to be productive.

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Not everybody can be active as they grow older.

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So those terms tend to create silos of people who are in that

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category and people that aren't,

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and can't be in that category without a lot of support.

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So when we're facing a situation where a lot of people are going

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to be growing older,

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framed around previous experiences of what it means to be old.

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And I think it's time we turn the tables on that, repurpose the language,

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repurpose the thinking and repurpose,

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how we provide environments and communities and societies that

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enable people to grow old in the best way possible that they can,

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how they want to grow old, regardless of what that looks like.

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Now, I know I said that when do we grow old?

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But we do know some things we know that most older people in Australia are

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net contributors to society.

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They give more than they take up to about the age of 80.

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Now that's not all older people, obviously some are net contributors,

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way longer than 80. But we know that that's about the average.

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So people up to the age of 80 tend to give more to society than they

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take it's. After that age, that things like health decline,

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we tend to rely more on public transport or some sort of

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transport services. We like to have services in the home.

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We might have poor a mobility, increased chronic conditions and poor health.

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So that's when we start to need a little bit more. But up until that age,

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we're active, we're participating, we're contributing. It might be babysitting.

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It might be tiering.

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It might be just living independently and not requiring any help from anybody

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looking after your own garden, looking after your own house. It was like that.

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We also know that most people, these days want to stay at home. It's a very,

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very clear message that we've had over the last 10 years.

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That that is where people want to grow older, if not in their own home,

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because their own home might be suitable,

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but at least in their own community or in their own neighborhood.

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So these things we know are important.

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And we know that we need to stop thinking about changing things

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now,

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not just for the current population of older people who also deserve the chance

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to age the way they want to,

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but also because we have that dreadful cohort coming up, the baby boom,

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as I think most of us are probably sort of

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not all of us. Alright, I'll confess on that.

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The first wave of the baby boomers is just turning 70 now.

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So if we think about that net contribution, age being 80,

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we've got about a decade to get it right before this big wave

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of older people comes through.

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We need to start thinking now for the next 10 to 20 years,

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about what we want society to look like for that older group.

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The advantage being that if we start doing that now,

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we also help the people that come before the baby boomers that in the big hype

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about baby boomers are often getting lost in the debate.

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So we need to act. Now,

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now there are some myths about the baby boomers just as there are about growing

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older.

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There's this idea that there is this cohort coming through that are wealthy and

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healthy and own their own homes are going to be out there traveling and

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learning Italian and running their own businesses and

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all these wonderful things. And it's just not true.

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There is a huge diversity in the older population,

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then not all healthier. In fact,

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we've done some research at the university that shows on the whole they're less

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than the previous generation.

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The only pluses they had is they smoke less and they're better educated,

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but they actually have poor health. They have a more chronic conditions.

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They're more likely to be overweight socially.

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They're more likely to live alone.

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They're more likely to have a mortgage or be renting.

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They're less likely to have a private health insurance.

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This is not the fabulous, wealthy, healthy, smart group going through.

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We need to think about that diversity.

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We need to be able to provide opportunities for all older people.

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The other thing is, I think we think we're invincible,

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that aging for us is going to be some wonderful panacea of choices.

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Some of us are going to get dementia. Some of us are going to be frail.

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Some of us are not going to have good mobility.

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Some of us are going to be living alone and struggling financially.

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We need to think about that. Diversity when we're building in services,

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when we thinking about what community might look like and how community can each

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help each other, it's not just all book fairs and holidays.

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It's a shame. I know.

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So I want to think for me, global movements,

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unlike successful aging or productive aging,

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but global movements like age-friendly cities and a trend to communities have a

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lot to offer because they're bottom up.

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The principle is that it's bottom up. It's the voices of the local community,

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deciding what their community or neighborhood is going to look like as they grow

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older. I think that combined with advances in new technologies,

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advances in medical and other science and in health science and

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other sciences are going to enable us to create Australia

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as a good place to grow old for everybody.

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So I think I just wanted that to be the start of the conversation today.

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<v Gordon>Thank you, Helen. And just to be some housekeeping,</v>

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if you could turn off your mobile phones, usually somebody forgets to,

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unless you just turn the sound off,

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don't turn them off unless you're Twittering, that'd be lovely.

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The Twitter feed, if you want,

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it is a FOI Adelaide festival of ideas underscore new

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lives. Our next speaker is professor Karen Reynolds.

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Karen is director of the medical defense defense

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medical device research Institute and the medical device partnering program.

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She's also deputy Dean of the school of computing, science, engineering,

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and mathematics at Flinders university. Thank you, Karen.

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<v Prof Karen Reynolds>Thanks Gordon. And I always knew Helen would be a hard act to follow,</v>

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but anyway I think perhaps just picking up on a little

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of,

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of Helen was talking about in as much as there is very much

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a continuum and diversity of aging. So, you know,

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we we're aging from the minute we're born, basically. But, but alongside that,

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there's also,

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we need as technologists to think about a continuum and diversity of technology

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to, to address people's needs across that full spectrum.

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And you know,

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technology is not something that either starts to be used as we get older

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or we stop using as we get older.

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And I think what we need to do is to make sure that the technology is designed

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appropriately for any particular need ability,

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et cetera, et cetera. And I guess as a technologist over the years,

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I've realized that we don't always do that very well.

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Technology tends to be built and then shoved in the hands of the people that we

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think should be using it.

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And we need to turn that around and make sure that we're working much,

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much more closely with the people who are going to be actually using that

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technology involving them in the design involving them in the development

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process and actually therefore letting them buy into the whole process.

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I've been asked to say a little bit about the sorts of technologies that are,

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that are there and perhaps that are coming along. So, you know,

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there's technology in almost everything we do and,

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and that's true at whatever age we are, but this technology and in transport,

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this technology in mobility technology, glasses,

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hearing aids, actually,

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there's another thing I would say is that the word technology invokes a number

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of different responses.

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Some people think of technology and they start thinking of kind of space,

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age things and get very nervous or very excited.

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To me, technology, you know, a clock is technology,

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but people probably don't think of a clock as being technology because it's

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accepted.

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And so sometimes the word technology is stuff that isn't quite yet accepted into

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community. But you know, technology is all around us.

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We have technology again,

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as we get older people think of the big red button that goes around the neck,

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you know, that's technology,

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which perhaps isn't necessarily always appropriately designed.

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We have technology in terms of things in the kitchen for eating and drinking

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personal care. Again, as we get older,

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some of the technologies that's fissured into a bathroom.

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And if we think about that currently in your bathroom, as you get older,

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you may have some grab rails.

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You may have a shower stool

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perhaps into the future. I mean, there are things now that you can get,

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for example, your smart taps that turn themselves on and off,

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and they've got the temperature that's already adjusted in the water, you know,

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looking into the future,

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perhaps that bathroom may have a camera built into the mirror

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and no, no, no, no,

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00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:46.020
not a C C no, no, no, no worries. Looking at the camera,

240
00:14:46.021 --> 00:14:46.854
the camera,

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00:14:47.010 --> 00:14:51.950
all the cameras do is it's actually looking at you and

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00:14:51.951 --> 00:14:55.040
saying, can we tell by,

243
00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:58.040
by the image what your heart rate is,

244
00:14:58.041 --> 00:15:02.420
what your oxygen level is, are you beginning to look unwell?

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00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:05.840
Is there something that we can alert as to how healthy you look,

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00:15:05.870 --> 00:15:08.060
have you lost weight? So it's looking at the image.

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00:15:08.061 --> 00:15:11.630
It's not necessarily sending that image off to somebody else, but, and again,

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00:15:11.631 --> 00:15:14.150
you know, these are the sort of responses that technology and folks,

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00:15:14.151 --> 00:15:18.050
and this is where we need as technologists to understand what's acceptable.

250
00:15:18.050 --> 00:15:21.410
What's not acceptable. How do we actually develop that kind of technology?

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00:15:22.850 --> 00:15:23.300
Again,

252
00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:27.230
thinking about the smart home and a lot of these technologies are already there

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00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:30.620
or are already available, but aren't necessarily being used.

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00:15:30.621 --> 00:15:35.120
So we think about things like medication reminders smart pill, dispensers,

255
00:15:35.540 --> 00:15:36.740
fall detection,

256
00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.700
there's more and more developments in the fall detections,

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00:15:40.880 --> 00:15:42.380
which is clearly a, you know,

258
00:15:42.381 --> 00:15:46.700
a really important area there's technology that can tell whether you've got out

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00:15:46.701 --> 00:15:50.330
of bed, whether you've got out of your chair, which is, you know,

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00:15:50.390 --> 00:15:52.250
in itself is perhaps not that exciting.

261
00:15:52.400 --> 00:15:57.200
But if then you connect that to kind of patterns of activity, it says,

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00:15:57.230 --> 00:15:57.530
well,

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normally you get out of bed at kind of eight o'clock in the morning and actually

264
00:16:01.041 --> 00:16:02.870
you haven't got out of bed and now it's 10 o'clock.

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00:16:02.871 --> 00:16:05.270
Is that something we should start to get concerned about?

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00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:09.290
Have you turned the cattle on this morning?

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00:16:09.291 --> 00:16:10.880
If you haven't turned the cattle on again,

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00:16:10.881 --> 00:16:13.430
perhaps that's an issue cause you always have a cup of tea in the morning.

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00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:18.380
So that kind of activity monitoring can start to tell a little bit about whether

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00:16:18.381 --> 00:16:20.150
someone's you know,

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00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:23.900
well healthy or perhaps there's some issues that,

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00:16:23.901 --> 00:16:28.550
that perhaps need following tele medicine, again, you know, video,

273
00:16:28.551 --> 00:16:31.100
remote consultations with your doctors to save you,

274
00:16:31.101 --> 00:16:35.330
having to go in to the GPS clinic. So you can,

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00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.950
you can do a video consultation have heart rate, blood pressure, glucose,

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00:16:39.951 --> 00:16:44.180
all those different things monitored. And so I guess

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00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:49.240
the point is there's a lot of technology that that's already

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00:16:50.590 --> 00:16:54.520
it's already feasible in many instances it's already available.

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00:16:56.410 --> 00:16:59.500
But there's some issues with it. So firstly access.

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00:16:59.501 --> 00:17:02.800
So actually knowing that it's there knowing how to access it,

281
00:17:03.730 --> 00:17:06.880
it being appropriate, which I think is a really big issue, you know,

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00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:08.260
has it been designed appropriately?

283
00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:10.540
Has it been designed with the end users in mind?

284
00:17:10.541 --> 00:17:13.570
Has it been designed with the consumer?

285
00:17:16.270 --> 00:17:19.600
The other thing I guess, is the affordability, which is an issue,

286
00:17:19.601 --> 00:17:24.310
which I think needs some, some thought but also the integration.

287
00:17:24.311 --> 00:17:25.780
And when I talk about integration,

288
00:17:25.781 --> 00:17:28.870
I guess it's integration from a technological sense.

289
00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:31.990
So rather than having lots and lots of different things in your house that

290
00:17:31.991 --> 00:17:34.150
actually don't work together and don't talk to each other,

291
00:17:34.430 --> 00:17:36.190
it needs to be integrated from that point of view,

292
00:17:36.340 --> 00:17:37.540
but probably more importantly,

293
00:17:37.541 --> 00:17:41.680
it needs to be integrated into the social system and it needs to be integrated

294
00:17:41.681 --> 00:17:43.760
into the health system if it's a kind of health,

295
00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.860
healthcare type type technology. So, you know, a lot of things there,

296
00:17:47.861 --> 00:17:52.680
I think that as technologists we haven't necessarily in the past thought about

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00:17:52.681 --> 00:17:53.640
particularly well.

298
00:17:54.061 --> 00:17:57.120
And it's something that I'm very passionate about trying to change moving

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00:17:57.121 --> 00:17:57.954
forward.

300
00:18:01.550 --> 00:18:05.510
<v Gordon>Thank you, Karen. Dr. <v Dr Victoria Cornell>, excuse me,</v>

301
00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:07.730
Dr. <v Dr Victoria Cornell> Cornell.

302
00:18:07.970 --> 00:18:11.450
He's a post-doctoral research fellow at the school of social science at the

303
00:18:11.451 --> 00:18:12.530
university of Adelaide.

304
00:18:13.370 --> 00:18:17.750
<v Dr Victoria Cornell> has a strong belief in social justice and understanding of how older

305
00:18:17.751 --> 00:18:21.590
people are often overlooked in terms of their aged care and housing needs.

306
00:18:22.610 --> 00:18:27.200
A current research is focused on issuing issues of aging, aged care,

307
00:18:27.260 --> 00:18:30.950
provision, and housing for vulnerable groups, <v Dr Victoria Cornell>, thank you.

308
00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:33.200
<v 3>Thanks Gordon. And good morning everyone.</v>

309
00:18:34.340 --> 00:18:37.790
I'd just like to tease out a couple of the issues that both Helen and Karen have

310
00:18:37.791 --> 00:18:42.260
started with. So as Helen said, there's, there's internationally,

311
00:18:42.261 --> 00:18:45.260
there's this perception that the baby boomers are gonna all retire,

312
00:18:45.290 --> 00:18:49.970
being healthy, wealthy, and well generally. And also that there is

313
00:18:51.470 --> 00:18:55.940
acknowledgement and also policy directives to help people age in their own homes

314
00:18:55.941 --> 00:18:59.600
and in their own communities. And I guess I'm,

315
00:18:59.601 --> 00:19:03.590
I'm kind of interested in that within that context. What,

316
00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:08.240
what does smart home technologies offer and what could be the potential issues

317
00:19:08.660 --> 00:19:11.180
in terms of empowering older people to stay at home and,

318
00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:14.450
and maintain that functionality in this wellbeing.

319
00:19:16.130 --> 00:19:19.490
Helen briefly mentioned that the older people are obviously often kind of

320
00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:22.220
essentially put in this bucket of being older people,

321
00:19:22.221 --> 00:19:25.700
but there's a huge diversity within that group. Just, I mean,

322
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:29.840
in terms of age from one thing, you know, 65 to 105, for example,

323
00:19:30.260 --> 00:19:32.990
and then of course, in terms of income, in terms of their health,

324
00:19:33.020 --> 00:19:34.940
in terms of their education, in terms of everything,

325
00:19:34.941 --> 00:19:37.400
that's going to have some effect on how successfully that they,

326
00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:40.100
they will age in their, in their own homes or in the community.

327
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.520
Looking specifically at two things I guess,

328
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.080
are income and wealth and housing interests of mine.

329
00:19:48.081 --> 00:19:52.220
So I mean, some of the income research that we know that's out there,

330
00:19:52.221 --> 00:19:55.640
several recent studies have highlighted that there's very high rates of,

331
00:19:55.670 --> 00:19:59.060
of income poverty in older Australians. For example,

332
00:19:59.061 --> 00:20:02.900
the organization of economic cooperation and development data has recently shown

333
00:20:02.901 --> 00:20:07.220
that a third of Australians over the age of 65 are living in poverty.

334
00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:07.760
And that's,

335
00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:12.410
we're only the second second highest within the OCD after South Korea.

336
00:20:12.410 --> 00:20:16.280
So that's, when you think that we think of ourselves as the lucky country,

337
00:20:16.281 --> 00:20:17.870
that's quite a scary statistic.

338
00:20:19.790 --> 00:20:23.000
And there's an awful lot of Australians that rely on the, on the on the age,

339
00:20:23.001 --> 00:20:26.810
pension is approximately 1.5 million older Australians are relying on the age

340
00:20:26.811 --> 00:20:29.330
pension as their main source of income.

341
00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:36.420
And a lot of older Australians will take very dark measures to, to,

342
00:20:36.770 --> 00:20:40.490
I guess, to manage their income. So they might turn off hot water in the summer.

343
00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:44.600
They might blend their food so that they don't have to worry about dental fees

344
00:20:44.601 --> 00:20:45.830
and having to go to the dentist.

345
00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:50.020
And they'll often have to between whether they're paying their rent or mortgage

346
00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:52.720
as to whether they're going to wait or whether they're paying the utility.

347
00:20:52.721 --> 00:20:56.020
So there's a choice every fortnight as to how they live in their lives.

348
00:20:58.060 --> 00:21:00.670
And then when we move on to housing there's, as, as Helen said,

349
00:21:00.671 --> 00:21:05.290
there's this kind of belief that everybody owns retires, owning their own home.

350
00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:10.060
And it's just not the case. In Australia home ownership is decreasing.

351
00:21:10.061 --> 00:21:13.000
And of course we've with that decrease in home ownership,

352
00:21:13.030 --> 00:21:16.930
there's an accompaniment in people renting in the private rental sector.

353
00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:21.520
And unfortunately the private rental sector isn't necessarily always that

354
00:21:21.521 --> 00:21:25.860
conducive to happy living either. And,

355
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:31.300
and both in terms of, of cost, private rental properties can be expensive.

356
00:21:31.330 --> 00:21:33.730
They can be inappropriate for people's needs.

357
00:21:33.731 --> 00:21:37.420
They can often be infringed locations because that's where the cheaper rent is

358
00:21:37.421 --> 00:21:38.254
going to be.

359
00:21:38.770 --> 00:21:43.750
And it's a lot of research has shown that a stable secure

360
00:21:43.751 --> 00:21:47.110
home is, is fundamental to health and wellbeing. So, okay,

361
00:21:47.111 --> 00:21:50.500
if you own your own home, you've got that stability and that security,

362
00:21:50.501 --> 00:21:52.630
but if you're renting in Australia,

363
00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:55.390
generally rents lease lengths are pretty short as well.

364
00:21:55.391 --> 00:21:58.420
So you could be living on a month to month rental lease.

365
00:21:58.421 --> 00:22:00.400
You could be living on a six monthly rental lease.

366
00:22:00.610 --> 00:22:03.970
There's just always that pressure of how safe and security you actually get to

367
00:22:03.971 --> 00:22:05.140
feel in your own home.

368
00:22:06.820 --> 00:22:09.850
And obviously in that respect as well,

369
00:22:10.090 --> 00:22:13.750
given that insecurity of tenure and potentially that poverty,

370
00:22:14.560 --> 00:22:18.190
what are the implications for smart technology to help you live in your own

371
00:22:18.191 --> 00:22:19.660
home? For example,

372
00:22:19.930 --> 00:22:24.430
Karen briefly talked about the cost of such technologies. Okay.

373
00:22:24.431 --> 00:22:27.370
Some of the day-to-day things like your capital and your clock, well,

374
00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:30.070
hopefully most, most people will be able to afford those,

375
00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:33.790
but a lot of the others are going to be expensive to install expensive,

376
00:22:33.791 --> 00:22:38.050
to maintain and expensive, to, to have that monitoring. If somebody,

377
00:22:38.051 --> 00:22:41.290
if it's one of those services that require some kind of monitoring,

378
00:22:41.291 --> 00:22:43.450
that monitoring is all going to come at a fee, it's not gonna,

379
00:22:43.510 --> 00:22:44.980
nothing's gonna be done for free.

380
00:22:47.350 --> 00:22:49.720
And I think that's something that as we,

381
00:22:49.870 --> 00:22:53.110
as we plan and devise and develop smart technologies,

382
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:54.880
is that something that we need to bear in mind,

383
00:22:54.881 --> 00:22:56.960
we need to bear in mind that equity of,

384
00:22:56.961 --> 00:23:00.550
of everybody being able to access it and everybody being able to use it.

385
00:23:03.450 --> 00:23:04.620
And, and those that are living in,

386
00:23:04.621 --> 00:23:08.890
in rental properties are potentially not going to be able to benefit from those

387
00:23:08.891 --> 00:23:13.120
things because the landlord might not want to have the whatever technology is

388
00:23:13.121 --> 00:23:16.420
put in or the modification put in the landlords may not be keen to have their

389
00:23:16.421 --> 00:23:17.680
property mucked around with.

390
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.390
And certainly those older people that are living in rooming houses or boarding

391
00:23:22.391 --> 00:23:23.224
houses,

392
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:28.270
are you going to feel confident to have a piece of smart technology put in a

393
00:23:28.271 --> 00:23:31.510
property where there could be 20 other people coming through the kitchen or 20

394
00:23:31.511 --> 00:23:31.931
any known,

395
00:23:31.931 --> 00:23:35.890
and whether you're going to be able to be the one that benefits from that piece

396
00:23:35.891 --> 00:23:39.580
of technology. And of course, there's, there's the issues of,

397
00:23:39.581 --> 00:23:44.230
of older people living in remote and rural communities where potentially wifi or

398
00:23:44.231 --> 00:23:46.760
internet isn't isn't as available.

399
00:23:46.761 --> 00:23:50.420
So it's great that you can have this amazing thing that's monitoring you,

400
00:23:50.421 --> 00:23:54.170
but if, if the line drops out every, you know, for a couple of hours every day,

401
00:23:54.171 --> 00:23:56.690
where then you, you lose that monitoring capability.

402
00:23:57.350 --> 00:24:00.740
And I suppose the final thing, which isn't necessarily. So,

403
00:24:01.010 --> 00:24:03.140
so focused on,

404
00:24:03.141 --> 00:24:08.030
on those that are less capable in terms of finances and in terms of their secure

405
00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:09.230
housing is, is,

406
00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:13.400
is thinking of the importance of social and ethical questions as well. I mean,

407
00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.700
obviously we laughed about the, having a camera in your bathroom,

408
00:24:16.910 --> 00:24:21.870
but there are issues of, of, of, of in terms of privacy and,

409
00:24:21.871 --> 00:24:24.800
and what that broader social benefit can be. So it's these,

410
00:24:24.801 --> 00:24:28.940
the cost of autonomy that could be afforded by a smart podium is that

411
00:24:29.510 --> 00:24:33.800
offset by increasing someone's health or increasing or improving their social

412
00:24:33.801 --> 00:24:35.270
isolation, for example,

413
00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:40.280
and will everybody be able to access it? I guess that's my,

414
00:24:40.340 --> 00:24:44.900
my main thing is, is that a lot of these things are fantastic in, in,

415
00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:49.190
in premise or in, in, in context or in idea concepts.

416
00:24:49.191 --> 00:24:50.060
That's the word I'm looking for.

417
00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:53.540
But whether in practice they can actually be went through,

418
00:24:53.541 --> 00:24:55.550
everyone can gain from them. Thank you.

419
00:24:58.840 --> 00:24:59.950
<v Gordon>Thank you, <v Dr Victoria Cornell> enough,</v>

420
00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:04.870
a final speaker is David Penta to David Panter.

421
00:25:05.320 --> 00:25:09.460
I'm a chief executive in care services in the UK and south Australia for more

422
00:25:09.461 --> 00:25:13.720
than 30 years, David has a range. So I'll just put him up on the screen.

423
00:25:14.860 --> 00:25:17.500
David has led a range of reforms,

424
00:25:17.501 --> 00:25:22.030
including the development of the new RA H currently S chief

425
00:25:22.031 --> 00:25:25.660
executive of not-for-profit ECH formally known,

426
00:25:25.661 --> 00:25:27.010
I think is early citizens' homes.

427
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.120
The state's biggest provider of housing and support services for older people.

428
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:36.280
David is passionate about enabling people to live well until death in their own

429
00:25:36.281 --> 00:25:37.090
home.

430
00:25:37.090 --> 00:25:41.260
And I understand that ECH has developed a number of programs to enable this to

431
00:25:41.261 --> 00:25:44.320
happen. So we look forward to hearing from you think you do thanks.

432
00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:45.820
<v Dr David Panter>Very much and good morning, everybody.</v>

433
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.450
I just want to pick up on a number of things. I mean,

434
00:25:49.451 --> 00:25:52.270
the focus for this session is about new lives for older people.

435
00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:57.490
And one of the things which we were clear we wanted to do as a panel was just to

436
00:25:57.970 --> 00:25:58.630
redress the balance,

437
00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:03.310
because you do hear a lot about new lives for older people as all those baby

438
00:26:03.311 --> 00:26:08.020
boomers who are in the fortunate position of perhaps being a bit wealthier

439
00:26:08.021 --> 00:26:10.780
than their predecessors, a bit more educated,

440
00:26:10.781 --> 00:26:15.160
had access to a range of resources and are doing great things in terms of,

441
00:26:15.161 --> 00:26:19.210
we've got the notion of sort of older entrepreneurs,

442
00:26:19.211 --> 00:26:22.720
people setting up their own businesses, finding new lives in retirement,

443
00:26:22.721 --> 00:26:26.050
et cetera, et cetera. That's great. And we're going to see more of that.

444
00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:30.550
And all of that adds to the diversity that we see amongst our older

445
00:26:30.551 --> 00:26:31.384
population,

446
00:26:31.810 --> 00:26:35.860
but unfortunately for every one person like that,

447
00:26:36.010 --> 00:26:40.390
there are a number behind them who don't have those resources.

448
00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:42.040
Haven't been that fortunate.

449
00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:46.710
And just because they were born between certain years and now form part of that

450
00:26:46.711 --> 00:26:51.450
baby boomer community, doesn't actually mean that their lives as they get older,

451
00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:54.720
they're going to be different, but they're not necessarily going to be better.

452
00:26:55.590 --> 00:26:59.550
The reality is we have a growing divide between the haves and the have-nots,

453
00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:02.730
and that is being played out amongst older people.

454
00:27:05.610 --> 00:27:10.200
In terms of Helen's opening comments about what does older actually mean?

455
00:27:11.610 --> 00:27:16.200
I have the great joy of actually working with many older

456
00:27:16.201 --> 00:27:21.060
people every day now ECH for those of you who

457
00:27:21.061 --> 00:27:25.680
don't know what we're about we were a sort of classic aged

458
00:27:25.681 --> 00:27:27.540
care provider organization.

459
00:27:28.530 --> 00:27:30.720
But we made a big decision three years ago,

460
00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:35.730
which was to sell on nursing homes because we believe so

461
00:27:35.731 --> 00:27:38.700
strongly that nursing homes are not part of the future.

462
00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:44.400
And we wanted to dedicate ourselves to be able to enable people to

463
00:27:44.430 --> 00:27:48.540
live independently in their own home for as long as they wish to.

464
00:27:48.930 --> 00:27:50.790
And for those who wish to,

465
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.240
to end up having a good and respectful death in their own home.

466
00:27:54.270 --> 00:27:55.830
And I'll say more about that in a moment.

467
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.510
And our housing are classed as retirement villages,

468
00:28:00.780 --> 00:28:04.830
and we've got 1700 houses in a hundred different locations,

469
00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:08.940
but they're not the retirement village that most people would immediately bring

470
00:28:08.941 --> 00:28:12.480
to mind. They're not gated communities that don't have resort staff facilities.

471
00:28:12.810 --> 00:28:16.350
They're very much a cluster. And if you know us you'll know that, you know,

472
00:28:16.620 --> 00:28:17.281
on average,

473
00:28:17.281 --> 00:28:21.990
it's anywhere between half a dozen and two dozen units in

474
00:28:22.411 --> 00:28:27.180
close off the main street, very much part of the local community.

475
00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:29.790
And I have the enormous pleasure of,

476
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.520
of meeting many of our residents on a daily basis.

477
00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:36.150
I was going back to this issue about who is old.

478
00:28:36.990 --> 00:28:41.940
I had dinner the other evening with a group of our residents who have a small

479
00:28:41.941 --> 00:28:44.450
community hall, and they organized for themselves once a month,

480
00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:49.350
a communal meal in that community hall. And on my right-hand side,

481
00:28:49.351 --> 00:28:52.080
I had Phyllis, Phyllis is 104,

482
00:28:52.590 --> 00:28:56.280
and still living at home independently with a little bit of help with cleaning

483
00:28:56.490 --> 00:28:59.310
and a bit of shopping but not much else.

484
00:28:59.910 --> 00:29:04.560
Phyllis talked about other people living in her village as being the oldies.

485
00:29:06.570 --> 00:29:07.770
On my left hand side,

486
00:29:07.771 --> 00:29:12.660
I had Dolly Dolly's 95 and Dolly is very proud that 95 she's

487
00:29:12.661 --> 00:29:16.860
still driving. Thankfully,

488
00:29:16.861 --> 00:29:20.550
she appreciates that she does it during the daytime hours, not at night anymore.

489
00:29:20.551 --> 00:29:25.380
She stopped doing that about a year ago and Dolly and Phyllis,

490
00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:29.760
very active. They're not particularly wealthy individuals.

491
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.960
Our housing is a targeted at what we described as being affordable.

492
00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:36.690
And I know there's always issues about affordable to whom,

493
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:41.160
but about 25% of our houses are actually rented and they're rented at

494
00:29:41.350 --> 00:29:43.000
70% of the market rate.

495
00:29:44.050 --> 00:29:48.460
So you can actually live in one of our rented houses as an older person for less

496
00:29:48.461 --> 00:29:52.490
than $5,000 a year. So it actually, you know, we, we have,

497
00:29:52.570 --> 00:29:54.490
we don't cater for the high end,

498
00:29:54.491 --> 00:29:57.910
the wealthy we're very much focused on the everyday Australians.

499
00:29:58.330 --> 00:30:02.650
And we touch the lives of about 15,000, south Australians on a daily basis,

500
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.020
about 2000 of those live in those houses.

501
00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:09.070
But 4,000 people we provide service to in their houses,

502
00:30:09.280 --> 00:30:12.130
their own houses rented or private that they've lived in for many years.

503
00:30:12.580 --> 00:30:14.590
And about twice as many of that,

504
00:30:14.591 --> 00:30:16.810
we service every day through our wellness centers,

505
00:30:16.990 --> 00:30:21.550
people coming in for social connection for allied health,

506
00:30:21.551 --> 00:30:23.470
physio, OT, podiatry,

507
00:30:23.650 --> 00:30:27.160
or just to be part of the gym class or an exercise class to help them retain

508
00:30:27.161 --> 00:30:30.600
their wellness. So yeah,

509
00:30:30.630 --> 00:30:35.220
the sorts of things which we're doing to ensure that those people have the lives

510
00:30:35.221 --> 00:30:39.750
that they want as they get older does go back to that basic point of recognizing

511
00:30:39.751 --> 00:30:42.870
where we currently are and what people's aspirations are.

512
00:30:43.350 --> 00:30:48.270
One of the things that drives us at ECH is from every piece of research we have

513
00:30:48.360 --> 00:30:52.560
done ourselves and every piece of research we can find around the developed

514
00:30:52.561 --> 00:30:56.670
world about how people want to end their days. As I said earlier,

515
00:30:56.730 --> 00:30:58.740
it is about being at home.

516
00:30:59.280 --> 00:31:03.660
And when the time comes having that good and respectful death at home,

517
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.510
it may come as a surprise that Australia from the work that we've

518
00:31:09.511 --> 00:31:14.280
done has about the worst rate

519
00:31:14.310 --> 00:31:18.360
in the world, in the developed world of people over 70,

520
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:19.890
actually getting to diet home.

521
00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:23.670
It is only about 10% of people

522
00:31:25.350 --> 00:31:29.280
now across the world, the developed world, whether it's north America, Europe,

523
00:31:29.281 --> 00:31:31.800
Scandinavia, ourselves, New Zealand,

524
00:31:32.100 --> 00:31:34.980
around about 50% of people over 70,

525
00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:38.460
get to die in hospital. Again,

526
00:31:38.461 --> 00:31:41.970
for many years of working in hospital systems, I think that's too high.

527
00:31:42.330 --> 00:31:46.320
I think we do a whole range of things towards the end of somebody's life that

528
00:31:46.321 --> 00:31:50.640
are unnecessary and that we don't need necessarily to,

529
00:31:50.660 --> 00:31:54.840
to have that sort of very sort of technologically invasive death for somebody in

530
00:31:54.841 --> 00:31:58.350
a hospital. But at least it's a consistent figure across the developed world.

531
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:03.150
What's not consistent is how many of those others get to that home

532
00:32:03.330 --> 00:32:04.440
versus a nursing home.

533
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.370
And here it's about 10% versus 40 across in New Zealand.

534
00:32:08.371 --> 00:32:11.130
It's about 20% at home and 30% in nursing homes,

535
00:32:11.490 --> 00:32:13.770
but you go to some parts of the world like Scandinavia,

536
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:17.490
it's 45% at home and any 5% in nursing homes.

537
00:32:18.570 --> 00:32:21.840
That's not because those people are dying from other things.

538
00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:26.910
It's because there are a range of options and services and solutions involving

539
00:32:26.911 --> 00:32:27.601
technology,

540
00:32:27.601 --> 00:32:32.190
as well as just good old fashioned neighborless neighborliness and support and

541
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:36.810
social connection that enable those people to continue living in their

542
00:32:36.811 --> 00:32:39.620
home and have that good and respectful at home.

543
00:32:40.670 --> 00:32:43.370
We know ECH from the work that we've done,

544
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:48.050
that one of the biggest factors in enabling people to carry on living at home

545
00:32:48.051 --> 00:32:51.620
and having that life that they want as they get older is about social

546
00:32:51.621 --> 00:32:54.830
connection, big fear about social isolation,

547
00:32:55.220 --> 00:33:00.050
but actually very easy ways to overcome some of that.

548
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.520
Again, going back to some old fashioned ideas about neighborliness,

549
00:33:04.820 --> 00:33:07.580
we know that people who live in our villages for example,

550
00:33:07.581 --> 00:33:11.070
and this is work done by Deb Faulkner who's in the audience today and,

551
00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:16.010
and her team at Adelaide uni. We know that people who living in our,

552
00:33:16.390 --> 00:33:17.120
our, our villages,

553
00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:21.890
if they do get to that point of thinking about a nursing home do so around about

554
00:33:21.891 --> 00:33:25.460
five years on average, later than a match group in the general community.

555
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:30.200
And one of the biggest components in that difference is the sense of

556
00:33:30.201 --> 00:33:34.940
neighborliness and wellness. That's derived by having people around you, who,

557
00:33:34.941 --> 00:33:36.140
you know, are just looking out for you.

558
00:33:37.610 --> 00:33:41.390
So we're looking at how to offer those sorts of opportunities to people who

559
00:33:41.391 --> 00:33:44.590
don't live in our villages, but live in traditional home.

560
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:49.780
How do we gather and reconnect with that sense of

561
00:33:49.781 --> 00:33:50.770
neighborliness?

562
00:33:51.100 --> 00:33:55.120
That is one of the things which has evaporated within our modern world,

563
00:33:55.121 --> 00:33:56.980
where everybody's become time poor.

564
00:33:57.370 --> 00:34:00.520
And whilst there's been some great schemes developed elsewhere,

565
00:34:00.521 --> 00:34:03.130
which we've looked at, there's a thing that's talked a lot about in,

566
00:34:03.131 --> 00:34:07.300
from a small town in <v Dr Victoria Cornell> for example,

567
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.880
called the casserole club where people, you know,

568
00:34:09.910 --> 00:34:14.620
families in our street are encouraged by the local council to cook an extra

569
00:34:14.621 --> 00:34:17.920
plate and share it with an older person living in the street,

570
00:34:17.950 --> 00:34:21.370
get that connectedness to enable people to reconnect with each other.

571
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:22.630
Great idea,

572
00:34:22.780 --> 00:34:27.130
really loved big problem is in today's world for those families who want to

573
00:34:27.131 --> 00:34:30.280
participate in that program, they've all got to be police checked,

574
00:34:30.580 --> 00:34:33.490
and they've got to go on basic hygiene courses for producing a meal,

575
00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:36.580
because we couldn't provide, you don't have food, poison people.

576
00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:39.850
That's a huge barrier. That's not about neighborliness.

577
00:34:40.090 --> 00:34:42.790
And also it's actually taking away a recognition,

578
00:34:42.791 --> 00:34:47.260
which I think happens in our world currently because of this

579
00:34:47.261 --> 00:34:51.250
notion, I call it age charism that everybody over a certain age,

580
00:34:51.251 --> 00:34:53.860
whether it's 65, 75 or 80 suddenly, you know,

581
00:34:54.190 --> 00:34:58.840
you become infantilized and you don't have a can't take any responsibility.

582
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:02.290
A lot of the things we're developing are actually saying it's up to you,

583
00:35:02.410 --> 00:35:04.960
we'll help you, you know, for, so for example,

584
00:35:04.961 --> 00:35:09.340
one of the issues with beginning to discuss and getting some traction with

585
00:35:09.970 --> 00:35:12.280
around the housing issue, the oldest group,

586
00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:16.000
the main group moving into private rental accommodation at the moment of women

587
00:35:16.001 --> 00:35:20.050
over 60, because of where they're finding themselves in their lives,

588
00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:23.230
relationship, failures, et cetera, et cetera,

589
00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:25.180
and what they're left with and what they can afford.

590
00:35:26.830 --> 00:35:30.640
We've equally got many people living in their traditional family homes with on

591
00:35:30.641 --> 00:35:32.410
their own with two or three bedrooms.

592
00:35:33.101 --> 00:35:36.220
I'm worried about the income and whether they can carry on living in their home

593
00:35:36.221 --> 00:35:39.600
and about social. So we're reinventing lodging,

594
00:35:41.190 --> 00:35:44.490
huge paranoia, my board who want me to police check everybody. And,

595
00:35:44.750 --> 00:35:48.450
and now we're just creating a platform for people to meet and connect.

596
00:35:48.510 --> 00:35:52.110
And if they want to offer to somebody, their bedroom then fine.

597
00:35:52.710 --> 00:35:55.200
And it's interesting that the biggest single group, again,

598
00:35:55.201 --> 00:35:59.580
in Australia who are registering with Airbnb are people over

599
00:35:59.581 --> 00:36:00.414
65.

600
00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:04.830
So let's actually create some choices for people,

601
00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:07.660
enable people to take responsibility and,

602
00:36:07.830 --> 00:36:12.420
and create a framework where the by they can actually have that life as they get

603
00:36:12.421 --> 00:36:16.590
older, recognizing that it's going to be very varied, very different.

604
00:36:17.250 --> 00:36:20.760
That baby boomer group is more diverse than ever in terms of what the

605
00:36:20.761 --> 00:36:21.750
aspirations are.

606
00:36:22.470 --> 00:36:26.040
And I just want to finish with one little example of technology. And again,

607
00:36:26.041 --> 00:36:31.020
it goes back to that issue about infantilizing older people and how

608
00:36:31.110 --> 00:36:35.790
even some really simple technology can make a huge difference.

609
00:36:36.090 --> 00:36:40.830
So one of the things we've noted that can happen for people as they get

610
00:36:40.831 --> 00:36:42.690
older happens to a lot of us,

611
00:36:42.720 --> 00:36:47.370
not just as we get older is we increasingly do things like burn the toast.

612
00:36:48.330 --> 00:36:49.590
And when we burn the toast,

613
00:36:49.591 --> 00:36:54.540
it sets off the smoke alarm and the smoke alarm for many older people is linked

614
00:36:54.541 --> 00:36:57.480
into a bigger system and suddenly their son,

615
00:36:57.481 --> 00:37:01.980
their daughter gets yet another phone call that mum or dad has triggered the

616
00:37:01.981 --> 00:37:03.180
smoke alarm. There must be an issue.

617
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:07.410
Can you need to go around and sort it out in our experience that becomes another

618
00:37:07.411 --> 00:37:10.470
black mark about mum or dad and why they can't cope at home.

619
00:37:11.670 --> 00:37:16.620
We've discovered and managed to support a company to import a

620
00:37:16.650 --> 00:37:18.420
glass sided toaster.

621
00:37:20.250 --> 00:37:24.990
And it's remarkable because it actually means you can see the

622
00:37:24.991 --> 00:37:29.100
toast brown, because what sets off that smoke alarm,

623
00:37:29.640 --> 00:37:32.190
particularly if you're somebody beginning to suffer,

624
00:37:32.191 --> 00:37:36.900
memory loss is just checking on the toast and not appreciating that every time

625
00:37:36.901 --> 00:37:38.010
you push it back down,

626
00:37:38.011 --> 00:37:42.960
you're resetting the clock that leads to the burnt toast glass cited toaster.

627
00:37:43.140 --> 00:37:46.860
You can see at brown eliminates in our experience,

628
00:37:47.100 --> 00:37:51.330
a hundred percent of smoke alarms going off takes all those black marks away

629
00:37:51.331 --> 00:37:55.890
from why mum or dad or your loved one isn't safe at home anymore. Thank you.

630
00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:56.903
Thank you, Dave.

631
00:38:01.310 --> 00:38:02.143
<v 5>[Inaudible].</v>

632
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:07.250
<v Gordon>On the floor for questions or have some examples of new lives that some of the</v>

633
00:38:07.251 --> 00:38:10.760
older people here have been living. So anybody. Yes.

634
00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:13.040
Can you just speak up a bit.

635
00:38:16.640 --> 00:38:21.350
<v 6>But the idea of social enrichment and social contact</v>

636
00:38:21.590 --> 00:38:26.480
for all of this, it's a whole lot more than that. I'm not one of them, sorry.

637
00:38:27.290 --> 00:38:31.310
She's just been admitted couple of weeks ago to an Ikea residence because she's

638
00:38:31.311 --> 00:38:36.280
got high PA's with dementia and all the social enrichment in the world is not

639
00:38:36.281 --> 00:38:40.060
there 24 hours a day. So that's

640
00:38:41.950 --> 00:38:44.050
just like, yeah, she was wonderful.

641
00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:47.933
She had

642
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:54.370
[inaudible] as my oldest son over a couple of weeks.

643
00:38:54.850 --> 00:38:56.530
Everybody's [inaudible].

644
00:38:58.410 --> 00:38:59.000
<v Dr David Panter>I think this is a,</v>

645
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:03.480
there's a fundamental problem policy problem in the way in which aged care,

646
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.660
the aged care system is structured, which is part of that as well,

647
00:39:07.020 --> 00:39:11.340
because the essentially we

648
00:39:11.580 --> 00:39:16.050
already carry out services for people with high care needs in their own home.

649
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.630
And we can usually manage to do that within the funds available from government

650
00:39:21.690 --> 00:39:26.610
for the most complex care in our home. However,

651
00:39:26.611 --> 00:39:31.260
the dollar value that the government subsidizes for that is still

652
00:39:31.261 --> 00:39:35.340
substantially less than what the government subsidizes for nursing home care.

653
00:39:35.850 --> 00:39:39.240
We're currently doing a proof of concept piece of work to demonstrate if we

654
00:39:39.241 --> 00:39:41.910
could access that extra bit,

655
00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:45.750
that the nursing home gets from the government as part of that subsidy,

656
00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:50.220
we can absolutely provide as good and as safe,

657
00:39:50.310 --> 00:39:55.170
a quality of care in somebody's home for somebody with high care needs.

658
00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:58.560
And that is the sort of thing that happens in other countries,

659
00:39:58.980 --> 00:40:02.400
even people with dementia, there are a range of things,

660
00:40:02.401 --> 00:40:06.720
some of the technology that was that Karen referred to, again, we're using that,

661
00:40:06.721 --> 00:40:10.650
not using cameras because we believe that's too invasive of privacy,

662
00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:14.010
but we use this little sensor system called Canary,

663
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:17.640
which just detects motion and, and, and heat.

664
00:40:17.970 --> 00:40:22.740
So we know that if somebody is getting up in the morning early in the

665
00:40:22.741 --> 00:40:25.500
morning, if they're out of bed for more than 10 minutes,

666
00:40:25.501 --> 00:40:28.170
something may have gone wrong because we know their pattern.

667
00:40:28.171 --> 00:40:30.000
They normally get up, they go to the toilet,

668
00:40:30.001 --> 00:40:31.470
they're back in bed within 10 minutes.

669
00:40:32.070 --> 00:40:35.100
A lot of people with dementia have very routinized behavior.

670
00:40:35.310 --> 00:40:37.170
And if you understand that behavior,

671
00:40:37.171 --> 00:40:39.750
it becomes very easy to remove to remotely monitor.

672
00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:44.610
So I think absolutely what you've described is correct that

673
00:40:44.611 --> 00:40:48.330
currently there, there aren't those range of services.

674
00:40:48.331 --> 00:40:49.920
There aren't those sorts of options there.

675
00:40:50.130 --> 00:40:52.050
And therefore people do reach a tipping point.

676
00:40:52.620 --> 00:40:55.530
And I'm not saying that that will be eliminated for everybody,

677
00:40:56.310 --> 00:40:57.061
but at the moment,

678
00:40:57.061 --> 00:41:01.980
we are creating three nursing home places for every home care

679
00:41:01.981 --> 00:41:03.180
package that gets created.

680
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:07.440
And yet we have a government rhetoric which talks about wanting to support

681
00:41:07.590 --> 00:41:08.423
people in their homes.

682
00:41:08.460 --> 00:41:13.320
If you reversed that it would bring remarkable changes very quickly to the way

683
00:41:13.321 --> 00:41:14.730
in which services could be provided.

684
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:17.490
And the number of people who could carry on living in their own homes much

685
00:41:17.491 --> 00:41:19.710
longer, just.

686
00:41:19.770 --> 00:41:24.570
<v Dr Helen Barrie>Just to add to David's point about that re the routine of behavior with</v>

687
00:41:24.571 --> 00:41:25.404
dementia.

688
00:41:25.770 --> 00:41:30.000
That's what gets turned upside down when your mother or someone's mother has to

689
00:41:30.001 --> 00:41:31.260
go to a nursing home,

690
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:35.960
suddenly they're in an environment they've lost their sense of autonomy.

691
00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:38.120
We all know that in our own homes,

692
00:41:38.390 --> 00:41:41.810
we can find a light switch in the middle of the night to be able to go to the

693
00:41:41.811 --> 00:41:43.550
loo. You don't think about it, you turn it on,

694
00:41:43.551 --> 00:41:47.330
you turn it off and you come back in to bed in the dark and you generally don't

695
00:41:47.331 --> 00:41:50.240
fall over anything. When you go to a hotel room,

696
00:41:50.241 --> 00:41:52.760
you've got no idea where the light switches, you know,

697
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.690
you wandering around in the dark trying to fill along the walls. It's the same.

698
00:41:56.691 --> 00:41:59.600
When you move from your home into a nursing home,

699
00:41:59.810 --> 00:42:03.860
you enter an unfamiliar environment with unfamiliar people and unfamiliar

700
00:42:03.861 --> 00:42:06.920
routines. Being able to stay in your home own time,

701
00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:11.510
maintains that autonomy. It might mean you need more help, but in fact,

702
00:42:11.511 --> 00:42:13.670
you need less help than when you move into the nursing home,

703
00:42:13.671 --> 00:42:15.710
because you've maintained your own autonomy.

704
00:42:16.150 --> 00:42:19.300
<v 3>I guess one final point for me as well as of course, if you are,</v>

705
00:42:19.720 --> 00:42:21.790
if you don't have that security of tenure,

706
00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:26.050
if you don't have that stable home and you're constantly on the move every six

707
00:42:26.051 --> 00:42:28.810
months, you're having to remember where the light switches, every six months,

708
00:42:28.811 --> 00:42:31.480
you're having to remember where the toilet is at two o'clock in the morning.

709
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.090
It just makes it harder and harder to,

710
00:42:34.180 --> 00:42:38.860
to kind of stay at home because you just feel more and more disenfranchised with

711
00:42:38.861 --> 00:42:40.090
every property that you go to.

712
00:42:40.091 --> 00:42:42.730
And you just kind of feel dislocated everywhere you go as well.

713
00:42:43.660 --> 00:42:45.580
<v Gordon>Yes, I actually got you.</v>

714
00:42:45.910 --> 00:42:50.470
The I'm astounded by how many people might age group.

715
00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:54.370
The baby boom is late fifties, early sixties still have substantial mortgages.

716
00:42:54.371 --> 00:42:57.550
I know quite a lot of people who have substantial mortgages and are running up

717
00:42:57.551 --> 00:43:00.580
to retirement. And I don't know how they cope with that. I think,

718
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:04.600
I think the point is that an increasing number of people will not be owning

719
00:43:04.601 --> 00:43:06.850
their own homes. I think that's the thing,

720
00:43:07.450 --> 00:43:12.220
an increasing number as they face retirement or end of work retrenchment,

721
00:43:12.221 --> 00:43:16.690
whatever it is that lack of security where we have 12 month leases

722
00:43:18.100 --> 00:43:19.810
how are people going to manage that?

723
00:43:19.811 --> 00:43:23.320
How they going to draw down perhaps on any super they do so they can actually

724
00:43:23.321 --> 00:43:27.590
pay their rent? How are they going to deal with the insecurity? The,

725
00:43:27.591 --> 00:43:29.980
the fact that they might have to move out of their community where they're

726
00:43:29.981 --> 00:43:32.740
actually, I think in the example in Europe,

727
00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:37.420
am I corrected here is that there are much longer term tenancies and home

728
00:43:37.421 --> 00:43:39.550
ownership is not taken as a given.

729
00:43:40.180 --> 00:43:43.930
So people might rent for a decade or more perhaps in a lease.

730
00:43:44.140 --> 00:43:45.670
And that gives them the sort of security.

731
00:43:45.671 --> 00:43:48.370
And perhaps that's another paradigm change we need to look at. Yeah.

732
00:43:48.370 --> 00:43:48.551
<v Dr David Panter>I mean,</v>

733
00:43:48.551 --> 00:43:53.470
I think the impact of this is going to be significant and I can use the UK as an

734
00:43:53.471 --> 00:43:54.304
example.

735
00:43:55.180 --> 00:43:58.930
The UK home ownership is now the lowest.

736
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.480
It has been since 1983,

737
00:44:01.780 --> 00:44:05.320
which is when the Thatcher government pushed through the right to buy council

738
00:44:05.321 --> 00:44:10.150
housing, public housing. So house ownership is the lowest since 1983,

739
00:44:10.930 --> 00:44:12.190
like Australia,

740
00:44:12.580 --> 00:44:17.230
the assumption that you own your house and were mortgage-free at 65

741
00:44:17.530 --> 00:44:21.940
is a fundamental tenant of the way the

742
00:44:21.941 --> 00:44:24.850
retirement and pension system is structured.

743
00:44:26.500 --> 00:44:28.610
What's happened in the UK and,

744
00:44:28.611 --> 00:44:32.400
and it's worse there because of the austerity measures post the global financial

745
00:44:32.401 --> 00:44:34.050
crisis, which haven't helped obviously,

746
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:38.880
but essentially it is undermined the nursing home business.

747
00:44:39.180 --> 00:44:40.050
So again,

748
00:44:40.051 --> 00:44:43.920
they saw a big shift from the not-for-profits into private nursing home as the

749
00:44:43.921 --> 00:44:47.170
big growth industry and ma,

750
00:44:47.171 --> 00:44:51.330
and a large number of those private nursing home companies have now gone to the

751
00:44:51.331 --> 00:44:55.080
wall because they can no longer get the income

752
00:44:56.190 --> 00:44:59.460
based that they used to for people going into nursing homes,

753
00:44:59.461 --> 00:45:00.600
where you sold your home,

754
00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:05.550
that became the bond that helped fund your nursing home care. Two weeks ago,

755
00:45:05.551 --> 00:45:10.320
the Nuffield Institute and independent research body released a report

756
00:45:10.560 --> 00:45:14.430
on the flow on impact that that's now having for home care options,

757
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:17.610
which are also funded to a degree in the same mechanism.

758
00:45:17.611 --> 00:45:20.250
And those home care options are also falling apart.

759
00:45:20.970 --> 00:45:25.950
And that is driven by that housing based model for supporting people

760
00:45:25.951 --> 00:45:29.640
as they get older. And so Australia needs to learn the lessons from that.

761
00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:31.950
And absolutely, you know, we can,

762
00:45:32.040 --> 00:45:36.930
we just done some work and the latest figures we have on superannuation for

763
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.930
women in south Australia, between 60 and 64,

764
00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:44.430
the median not the mean the median superannuation figure is currently

765
00:45:44.431 --> 00:45:48.120
$28,000. Ain't going to go very far.

766
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:50.630
Any other comment, I guess.

767
00:45:50.630 --> 00:45:54.850
<v 3>I mean, just a couple of things to add. I think he's, you're right Gordon, that,</v>

768
00:45:55.070 --> 00:45:59.750
that Australia and the UK is the same, very much has a home ownership culture.

769
00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:04.460
So the thought of renting for your entire life is kind of anathema to us,

770
00:46:04.580 --> 00:46:07.790
you know, whereas in, in central Europe, there's, it's,

771
00:46:07.791 --> 00:46:11.420
it's the done thing to own your own home is, is quite unusual.

772
00:46:12.620 --> 00:46:16.760
I think there is some real policy and systemic problems in Australia as well,

773
00:46:16.761 --> 00:46:19.640
certainly with housing and aging in that they're generally dealt with by

774
00:46:19.641 --> 00:46:20.990
different levels of government.

775
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.130
Aging is generally federal housing is generally state government driven and

776
00:46:25.131 --> 00:46:28.850
local government driven. A lot of it is, you know,

777
00:46:28.940 --> 00:46:30.980
it's it's election cycles.

778
00:46:31.250 --> 00:46:34.640
Governments will come in with this whizzbang idea for the next thing that's

779
00:46:34.641 --> 00:46:36.810
going to solve the pit, the superannuation crisis. And,

780
00:46:36.811 --> 00:46:39.770
and then of course they get voted out and the next government comes in.

781
00:46:40.070 --> 00:46:42.470
So I think that's always something that we're going to struggle with.

782
00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:47.630
And I think also, unfortunately, a lot of the silos, as you mentioned,

783
00:46:47.631 --> 00:46:52.340
that we deal with are often fighting for the same money or fighting for the

784
00:46:52.341 --> 00:46:54.080
same kind of audience, if you like,

785
00:46:54.081 --> 00:46:56.660
they're fighting for the same votes for the same money, whatever it is.

786
00:46:56.900 --> 00:47:00.680
So they don't, they haven't traditionally worked together because they,

787
00:47:01.340 --> 00:47:05.270
you know, they're both fighting for a pot of money or, or Ava or whatever.

788
00:47:05.271 --> 00:47:08.180
So they, they don't come together. And I think that's a real,

789
00:47:08.300 --> 00:47:13.100
a real sticking point as well. I'm a real optimist.

790
00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:18.320
<v Dr Helen Barrie>I just wanted to end that conversation on a bit of a happy note.</v>

791
00:47:19.940 --> 00:47:23.180
I think need drives innovation.

792
00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:28.280
And I think as the generations go by and the worldview

793
00:47:28.281 --> 00:47:32.950
shifts from home ownership to rental, we'll come up with other systems.

794
00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:35.800
We'll look at lodging, we'll look at share housing,

795
00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:37.930
we'll look at community housing.

796
00:47:37.931 --> 00:47:41.500
We'll look at all those sorts of options in a really different way.

797
00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:46.720
And I'm sure the way a 30 year old today is going to grow

798
00:47:46.721 --> 00:47:49.180
older is going to look really,

799
00:47:49.181 --> 00:47:53.440
really different than what we're even sitting here imagining for our futures.

800
00:47:53.740 --> 00:47:57.760
So I really believe that they will get creative

801
00:47:58.330 --> 00:48:01.320
and we'll see different solutions. Got.

802
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:05.070
<v Gordon>The lady just behind the purple. So if I might summarize it,</v>

803
00:48:05.150 --> 00:48:08.340
this is about intentional communities. Sorry.

804
00:48:08.341 --> 00:48:11.190
Is this about intentional communities or Jen? Yes. Okay.

805
00:48:11.191 --> 00:48:15.990
So my organization looks after a lot of the work at the old in

806
00:48:15.991 --> 00:48:19.800
Grieco village and Christie walk, and they're both some nodding heads here.

807
00:48:19.801 --> 00:48:22.620
People know about those intentional communities. They are a minority,

808
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:26.610
they do have a great mix of people and they do keep an eye on each other.

809
00:48:26.970 --> 00:48:31.710
And in fact, in terms of I've been 30 years in Australia management industry,

810
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.820
it has been wonderful to see how people have moved into units and they've kept

811
00:48:35.821 --> 00:48:40.080
an eye on each other or help somebody go shopping at a 91 year old who could

812
00:48:40.081 --> 00:48:44.910
stay in her own home because there was a supportive community in that strata

813
00:48:44.911 --> 00:48:47.850
title group. And let's try to tell us, get a lot of bad press,

814
00:48:48.210 --> 00:48:50.430
but they can be wonderfully supportive community.

815
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:51.720
So I'll pass that question over.

816
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.100
<v Dr David Panter>Yep. Certainly we are looking at those.</v>

817
00:48:56.101 --> 00:49:00.720
We've got some land that we're about to develop

818
00:49:00.750 --> 00:49:04.410
where we're looking at those sort of intentional communities for mixed use.

819
00:49:05.250 --> 00:49:09.690
And we're also doing a lot with the community housing providers who

820
00:49:09.691 --> 00:49:14.130
potentially are going to be taking over the public housing estates for

821
00:49:14.131 --> 00:49:19.050
redevelopment and looking at how those can be more integrated, age friendly,

822
00:49:19.110 --> 00:49:21.660
et cetera, et cetera. But in the meantime,

823
00:49:21.661 --> 00:49:25.170
we're also just doing lots of other intergenerational stuff in and whether

824
00:49:25.171 --> 00:49:25.891
that's, you know,

825
00:49:25.891 --> 00:49:30.120
we've got a village at Nan they've just joined with the local school

826
00:49:31.110 --> 00:49:35.130
and they're doing some revegetation work around the village. I mean,

827
00:49:35.490 --> 00:49:38.370
and gardening for us is a big issue. I mean,

828
00:49:38.371 --> 00:49:41.610
I happen to be a passionate gardener myself, but you know,

829
00:49:41.700 --> 00:49:45.720
the cute sense of community created through gardens. And we,

830
00:49:45.721 --> 00:49:49.710
again now employ the country's first horticultural therapist

831
00:49:50.850 --> 00:49:53.580
who is skilled at using gardening for therapeutic purposes.

832
00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:57.540
And that's leading to us opening up community gardens because they actually

833
00:49:57.541 --> 00:50:00.390
bring in the neighborhood young and old,

834
00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:04.710
not just people using our services in order to get that sense of engagement.

835
00:50:05.970 --> 00:50:06.630
<v Dr Helen Barrie>Just, just,</v>

836
00:50:06.630 --> 00:50:11.340
I used to do some work a few years ago with a council that was introducing a

837
00:50:11.341 --> 00:50:15.960
system in a council area that had lots of quarter acre blocks.

838
00:50:16.290 --> 00:50:19.350
So you've got older people living in quarter acre blocks who can no longer

839
00:50:19.351 --> 00:50:20.790
manage that garden,

840
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.560
but you have young families moving in who loved gardening to be able to share

841
00:50:25.561 --> 00:50:30.110
those gardens sometimes physically with a gate between the two properties at the

842
00:50:30.111 --> 00:50:33.260
back. So you have a younger person who's doubled their,

843
00:50:33.680 --> 00:50:37.400
their land value L land use if you like,

844
00:50:37.580 --> 00:50:42.260
but they're also providing the older person with a well-tended cared for garden,

845
00:50:42.530 --> 00:50:44.150
being able to share, produce,

846
00:50:44.300 --> 00:50:47.330
and then share other things that comes out of that,

847
00:50:47.630 --> 00:50:51.680
those simple ideas that can relate to not just intentional communities,

848
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:53.300
but to every neighborhood.

849
00:50:55.670 --> 00:50:58.930
<v Gordon>There's the technology around that enables people to connect like this so that</v>

850
00:50:59.710 --> 00:51:00.970
people could potentially, you know,

851
00:51:00.971 --> 00:51:04.540
who might live half a suburb away would know that some old person there would

852
00:51:04.541 --> 00:51:07.630
like to have some help in the garden and they want to actually connect with

853
00:51:07.631 --> 00:51:08.110
them.

854
00:51:08.110 --> 00:51:13.060
<v Prof Karen Reynolds>I believe there are sort of online type communities that can enable this kind of</v>

855
00:51:13.061 --> 00:51:15.520
connection, I guess it's, you know, it's the usual thing though,

856
00:51:15.521 --> 00:51:19.780
is actually knowing that those kinds of those facilities are available.

857
00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:24.610
<v Gordon>There's an old Greek called Epicure used to talk about that, that the way</v>

858
00:51:27.220 --> 00:51:29.900
Epicurious, I think he used to talk about the the,

859
00:51:29.901 --> 00:51:34.000
the the happiness was about,

860
00:51:34.060 --> 00:51:37.420
or contentment was about sharing meals, sharing a home with other people,

861
00:51:37.421 --> 00:51:40.240
but having enough space of your own, that may be paraphrasing him,

862
00:51:40.570 --> 00:51:43.120
but that was the recipe for a good life.

863
00:51:43.430 --> 00:51:44.530
<v 3>It's interesting,</v>

864
00:51:44.710 --> 00:51:47.830
because years ago I worked in England and worked for two local councils,

865
00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:51.340
which had they both had lots of empty properties, large,

866
00:51:51.370 --> 00:51:55.360
big <v Dr Victoria Cornell>n houses that, you know, we didn't have the big families to fail.

867
00:51:55.720 --> 00:51:56.740
And one of the, you know,

868
00:51:56.741 --> 00:51:59.980
we were trying to bring these empty properties back into use and think of any

869
00:52:00.010 --> 00:52:01.750
innovative ways that we could do that.

870
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:05.110
What you mentioned was exactly one of the things that we looked at,

871
00:52:05.350 --> 00:52:09.580
but it all got too hard because of the bureaucracy and the red tape that was

872
00:52:09.581 --> 00:52:11.440
required to, to help that.

873
00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:14.860
And I think things are moving on a bit in that.

874
00:52:14.950 --> 00:52:17.980
And certainly there is some, you know, Europe, Finland,

875
00:52:17.981 --> 00:52:22.450
and the Netherlands are starting to do these kind of more intentional

876
00:52:22.451 --> 00:52:26.650
communities. So I think that the turning, you know, the, the thoughts will turn,

877
00:52:26.651 --> 00:52:28.750
but I think it's just going to take time together.

878
00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:33.280
<v Prof Karen Reynolds>Sorry, sorry. I think, and again, in Europe,</v>

879
00:52:33.430 --> 00:52:37.690
there's some great examples actually, of, of students sharing with older people,

880
00:52:38.410 --> 00:52:41.830
which I think is a great idea is that as a university person cause there's so

881
00:52:41.831 --> 00:52:45.290
much to gain from each other in those particular industries,

882
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:47.170
we've got five minutes more. So David, I'm just gonna move.

883
00:52:47.170 --> 00:52:49.120
<v 6>On. Yeah, just one, fantastic.</v>

884
00:52:49.121 --> 00:52:53.560
To hear the excitement and energy around all of these alternatives.

885
00:52:54.070 --> 00:52:58.840
And I've actually worked in aged care facilities

886
00:52:59.110 --> 00:53:04.090
for a number of years and the last increase of size,

887
00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:07.450
the institutionalization of aged care.

888
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:11.200
And now I've got to change your life.

889
00:53:11.230 --> 00:53:15.430
I'm having a slightly different position on all of that community now.

890
00:53:17.680 --> 00:53:21.370
And I think it is about community not supporting age,

891
00:53:22.570 --> 00:53:27.420
supporting communities. And I think the big impediment

892
00:53:29.550 --> 00:53:32.370
pretty well is about the regulations.

893
00:53:33.270 --> 00:53:35.160
When I first started designing an educated

894
00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:40.530
and the kitchens where people could cook their own food.

895
00:53:40.770 --> 00:53:41.820
And then the legislation.

896
00:53:57.330 --> 00:53:57.770
<v 5>[Inaudible].</v>

897
00:53:57.770 --> 00:53:59.730
<v 6>Described the new model and it's fantastically,</v>

898
00:54:01.140 --> 00:54:04.830
how do you get, because obviously a lot of the funding

899
00:54:09.090 --> 00:54:11.220
structure is still going on.

900
00:54:17.850 --> 00:54:20.970
[inaudible] Try and get more people

901
00:54:24.260 --> 00:54:26.100
to take responsibility,

902
00:54:26.550 --> 00:54:31.470
whatever HBR we're not expecting the government or anybody to do

903
00:54:31.471 --> 00:54:32.640
everything we're ready.

904
00:54:35.220 --> 00:54:36.870
<v Dr David Panter>We're ready. When's the government.</v>

905
00:54:42.570 --> 00:54:47.540
I think that that is about actually people taking action quite

906
00:54:47.541 --> 00:54:50.690
frankly, and taking control back into their own hands.

907
00:54:51.650 --> 00:54:54.680
I'm also optimistic despite so my comments,

908
00:54:55.100 --> 00:54:58.130
but I have to say the, the, the,

909
00:54:58.190 --> 00:55:02.840
where I'm looking for inspiration at the moment is two

910
00:55:02.870 --> 00:55:05.810
very different sorts of systems and believe it or not.

911
00:55:05.811 --> 00:55:09.680
I think one of the exciting places around lies for older people at the moment is

912
00:55:09.681 --> 00:55:10.514
in New York.

913
00:55:10.850 --> 00:55:15.830
And that's partly because there is no welfare history and people have

914
00:55:15.831 --> 00:55:20.240
had to make do, and there's a very low threshold to red tape and bureaucracy.

915
00:55:20.600 --> 00:55:24.530
So people have been able to do things and some of the community-based

916
00:55:24.531 --> 00:55:26.240
initiatives, some have come from face groups,

917
00:55:26.241 --> 00:55:27.680
particularly within the Jewish community,

918
00:55:28.070 --> 00:55:33.050
but there's a very active program there around older lesbian and gay people.

919
00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:38.660
Taking control housing is a critical issue there because of again,

920
00:55:38.661 --> 00:55:41.300
just access to housing, et cetera, et cetera.

921
00:55:41.540 --> 00:55:45.200
So there's a lot of initiatives on the ground in that environment,

922
00:55:45.530 --> 00:55:48.050
which I believe we can certainly learn from,

923
00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:51.830
and for organizations like myself, ourselves, it's, it's,

924
00:55:52.060 --> 00:55:56.840
it's how we translate that into, you know, these words of proof of concept. So,

925
00:55:56.841 --> 00:56:01.040
you know, so this, this issue about providing 24 7 care in people's homes,

926
00:56:01.490 --> 00:56:06.440
we're doing that. We're using some of our reserves to fund the cost of that,

927
00:56:06.890 --> 00:56:10.430
but we're doing it in partnership or with the knowledge of the federal

928
00:56:10.431 --> 00:56:15.380
government key people and the bureaucrats so that we can then let

929
00:56:15.381 --> 00:56:20.270
them have the evidence we can demonstrate this can work if you do these certain

930
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:23.620
things. And that is to influence the policy. But then the day,

931
00:56:23.650 --> 00:56:27.160
I think the more people who actually just take control of their lives and say,

932
00:56:27.161 --> 00:56:30.550
this is what I want to do and get on and do it. That's going to add.

933
00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:33.990
<v Gordon>And I know we have another question, however, I'm told,</v>

934
00:56:33.991 --> 00:56:38.490
if we're not ahead of about 1215, they will actually March us out. So,

935
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.090
so I just wanted to ask you to thank Helen, Karen, <v Dr Victoria Cornell>,

936
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:48.270
and David for a very insightful look at our new Alliance.

937
00:56:52.350 --> 00:56:52.380
<v 5>[Inaudible].</v>

938
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:54.390
<v Gordon>Just some housekeeping before you go, I will.</v>