WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.780 --> 00:00:12.060 Hi this is Miriam Yip from Environmental and Science Media and this is Ken Long 2 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:16.400 from the Adelaide Sustainability Network and we're at the Adelaide Festival of 3 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:21.320 Ideas. Exactly we're actually part of the larger program of the Festival of Ideas 4 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:30.580 2018. Our next conversation is actually at the Nexus Arts in Adelaide's West End 5 00:00:30.580 --> 00:00:36.940 and we're gonna be talking all about how can we actually afford sustainable 6 00:00:36.940 --> 00:00:42.140 buildings. Yes that's a big question out there isn't it? Yep so we'll be talking a 7 00:00:42.140 --> 00:00:47.680 lot about the financial aspects of getting high-performing buildings and 8 00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:49.340 probably going further 9 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:56.520 politics and not just evaluating upfront costs but just general value of 10 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:59.320 integrating sustainability and built environments. I'm really excited about 11 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:02.520 this one Miriam. Should be a good one let's go in and check it out. All right 12 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:11.840 let's get going. Hello Adelaide. You guys are absolutely beautiful. Thank you very 13 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:17.720 much for joining in on our session today. I would like to start our 14 00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:20.560 time together by acknowledgement of country 15 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:21.060 and 16 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:24.600 acknowledge that our discussion here today is being held on the traditional 17 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:28.300 lands of the Ghana people and I wish to acknowledge them as the traditional 18 00:01:28.300 --> 00:01:33.180 owners of this land. I would like to pay my respects to their communities past 19 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:38.800 present and emerging and acknowledge those who might be here with us today. We 20 00:01:38.800 --> 00:01:43.740 appreciate and very much respect their culture and connection to the land. We 21 00:01:43.740 --> 00:01:50.140 also have the opportunity to everyone here present today to also take on the 22 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:56.580 land and this understanding and feeling of connection to land. Therefore as an 23 00:01:56.580 --> 00:01:59.840 organization that Adelaide Sustainable Building Network would like to encourage 24 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.220 all of us here present today to also think of themselves as stewards of this 25 00:02:04.220 --> 00:02:09.220 land and treat it accordingly into the future. Especially as we'd like to think 26 00:02:09.220 --> 00:02:13.580 of how we can do that through our built environments. So once again welcome 27 00:02:13.580 --> 00:02:16.680 everyone. Thank you very much for being here. You excited? 28 00:02:16.940 --> 00:02:17.360 Yeah. 29 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:23.600 Did everyone have, is everyone having a fantastic festival of ideas so far? 30 00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:24.360 Yeah. 31 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:31.840 That's what we like to hear. My name is Ken Long. I am the chairman of the Adelaide 32 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:36.740 Sustainable Building Network, a local organization which hopefully some of you have 33 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:42.120 heard of, but if you haven't, I hope you will continue to hear about us into the 34 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:47.340 future. On behalf of the ASBN team, it gives me great joy to have you here. I'm very 35 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:51.820 happy to have you all here with us today and our panel here with us today as part of 36 00:02:51.820 --> 00:02:59.580 the Festival of Ideas 2018. This forum is actually part of an ongoing discussion series 37 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:06.720 that we curate throughout the year. We call them the Living Building Conversations. Our 38 00:03:06.720 --> 00:03:12.720 intent with these conversations is to drive locally relevant discussions around sustainable 39 00:03:12.720 --> 00:03:17.320 design and how to create built environments with a positive impact, positive impact on 40 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:22.340 the environment, and a positive environmental, social, and cultural impact. If you are 41 00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:30.660 perhaps new to the ASBN experience, it's a thing. Trust me. We have an extensive catalog 42 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:38.080 of podcasts and information through our digital platforms, which is freely available at our 43 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:47.320 website at www.adelaidesbn.com.au. Now today, we will be focusing on the development of 44 00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:51.760 a new building, and we will be focusing on a discussion on whether we can afford sustainable 45 00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:58.700 buildings and whether they're a worthwhile investment. Now we have the honor of having 46 00:03:58.700 --> 00:04:06.820 a fantastic panel with us today, all Adelaide locals, because once again, we want to drive 47 00:04:06.820 --> 00:04:11.980 locally relevant discussions. Working down the line, today we're joined by Jared Winders, 48 00:04:12.140 --> 00:04:16.560 who is the Director and Wealth Manager at Hopscotch Wealth. 49 00:04:18.520 --> 00:04:25.780 Jared is a master of aerospace engineer turned wealth manager. So, you know, you don't always 50 00:04:25.780 --> 00:04:30.560 go to the university, you go to university for the things you'll do in life. But his 51 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:36.560 passions and skill set are grounded in understanding people, problem solving, and quick-witted 52 00:04:37.220 --> 00:04:44.760 humor. So I hope he gives us a couple of zingers today. Welcome, Jared. On to his left, we 53 00:04:44.760 --> 00:04:47.100 have Yara Plaves. Sorry. 54 00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:47.320 Yara Plaves. 55 00:04:47.340 --> 00:04:47.960 Did I say that right? 56 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:49.040 Plaves. 57 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:55.080 Plaves. I'm sorry, Yara. I always get that wrong. Yara is a senior architect at Haim 58 00:04:55.080 --> 00:05:00.240 Charley in Adelaide. Yara has extensive experience in the construction industry and has managed 59 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:05.520 design development and implementation and contract management across various amount 60 00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:10.440 of scales, including industrial, residential, commercial, and government projects. So welcome, 61 00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:16.820 Yara. Thank you for joining us. We also have Guy Fisher, who is the building construction 62 00:05:16.820 --> 00:05:17.260 manager. 63 00:05:17.340 --> 00:05:25.360 Guy has a broad experience in the construction industry and over 35 years of experience and 64 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:28.700 is passionate about advancing the principles of sustainable design in the property industry. 65 00:05:29.340 --> 00:05:33.420 He has insight into the industry from the perspective of corporate property management, 66 00:05:33.780 --> 00:05:38.180 cost consultancy, and project management and construction management. So thank you very 67 00:05:38.180 --> 00:05:44.120 much for joining us, Guy. And riding out our panel is Sandy McAthe. Did I pronounce those 68 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:45.600 names right? I'm very sorry, Yara. 69 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:51.360 Sandy is currently the programs and partnership coordinator for Carbon Neutral Adelaide and 70 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:56.200 the program manager for City Switch Green Office program within the city of Adelaide. 71 00:05:56.820 --> 00:06:02.620 Sandy is an effective environmental and sustainability advisor with over 20 years in implementing 72 00:06:02.620 --> 00:06:07.720 innovative solutions to advance sustainability practices in various industries. 73 00:06:07.960 --> 00:06:14.080 So we intently made this quite diverse in terms of the different kind of experiences 74 00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:15.580 and where everyone can get their hands on. And we're going to talk about that in a little 75 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:15.760 bit. 76 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:20.160 The rest of the info is in the description, it is the info that it is in the description 77 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:21.440 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 78 00:06:21.440 --> 00:06:24.260 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 79 00:06:24.260 --> 00:06:27.980 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 80 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:31.880 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 81 00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:38.520 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 82 00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:45.580 here, it is the info that it is in the description here, it is the info that it is in the description 83 00:06:45.580 --> 00:06:50.720 the property industry is adapting and moving forward and things like that. 84 00:06:50.860 --> 00:06:56.320 So from your perspective, are sustainable buildings attractive investments for individuals 85 00:06:56.320 --> 00:06:56.920 and businesses? 86 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:03.200 And also, do you think there's particular barriers to further investment into high-performing, 87 00:07:03.200 --> 00:07:05.140 environmentally friendly buildings? 88 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:05.720 Cool. 89 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:07.640 Start you off with a big one. 90 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:08.420 Yeah, thanks for that. 91 00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:13.200 I'm not a very experienced public speaker, so thank you for the opportunity to get my 92 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:13.740 chops warm. 93 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:19.020 That's a very complicated question, and I want to break it down into two halves. 94 00:07:19.900 --> 00:07:25.680 Obviously, from an environmental perspective, sustainability is the highest ROI you're going 95 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:26.000 to get. 96 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:27.340 So let's just park that to the left. 97 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:29.680 Return on investment. 98 00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:33.560 So every dollar spent in that is the way to go. 99 00:07:33.620 --> 00:07:37.960 I'm obviously a huge advocate for everything sustainable, and I don't want that to cloud 100 00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:39.340 the discussion. 101 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:43.240 So let's just leave the fact that everything you're doing in sustainability for the environment 102 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:43.940 is a plus. 103 00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:45.100 We'll just park that just here. 104 00:07:45.100 --> 00:07:47.700 Because I'd like to talk about the dollars and cents of it, because that's what I see 105 00:07:47.700 --> 00:07:48.120 day to day. 106 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:54.560 I suppose I'll let the commercial property side of things be discussed by Guy, because 107 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.840 I feel like that will be his strength. 108 00:07:56.180 --> 00:08:02.360 But when it comes to residential investment in sustainable technologies, again, the answer 109 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:02.880 is yes. 110 00:08:03.020 --> 00:08:04.660 In my opinion, the answer will always be yes. 111 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:06.680 But there are limits. 112 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:11.520 And when it comes to the barriers, I think I can explain that really succinctly. 113 00:08:11.580 --> 00:08:14.100 But I'll give you an example. 114 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:14.480 Where? 115 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.480 The people with the right intentions might run into some trouble. 116 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.940 And this is where maybe the sustainability argument gets lost a little bit when it comes 117 00:08:22.940 --> 00:08:23.360 to property. 118 00:08:23.500 --> 00:08:31.540 So there are people who value sustainable technologies in a house way more than the 119 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:32.060 next person. 120 00:08:32.260 --> 00:08:36.400 So someone like myself might buy a house worth a half a million dollars and invest $50,000 121 00:08:36.400 --> 00:08:40.180 to $100,000 upspecking that property to make it more sustainable. 122 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:44.880 I might add insulation or triple glazed windows or solar. 123 00:08:44.880 --> 00:08:45.820 I might add a lot of PV and some storage. 124 00:08:45.880 --> 00:08:48.000 All that sort of stuff that means a lot to me. 125 00:08:49.660 --> 00:08:54.700 The people who that doesn't necessarily mean a lot to you right now, sadly, are the banks 126 00:08:55.240 --> 00:09:00.820 and the valuers, because it doesn't make a lot of sense for the public right now. 127 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.980 So even though I've bought my half a million dollar house and I've invested $100,000 into 128 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:09.540 it, if I was to then put that property on the market and try and sell it, there isn't 129 00:09:09.540 --> 00:09:14.640 necessarily a swag of people who are going to pay that $600,000, which is what I'm going 130 00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:15.540 to need to get my return. 131 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.240 And the banks are acutely aware of this. 132 00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:23.020 So even though I'm looking at my property going, I've got this beautiful $600,000 house, 133 00:09:23.180 --> 00:09:27.580 if I'm trying to refinance that or if I'm trying to sell it or whatever, I'm not going 134 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:33.480 to get all of my money back until that value has permeated into the rest of society. 135 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:34.920 In Canberra, it's different. 136 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:40.700 In Canberra, you must declare your star rating or your green energy rating when you sell 137 00:09:40.700 --> 00:09:41.040 the house. 138 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:42.880 So that is right there, right in your face. 139 00:09:43.020 --> 00:09:44.620 And you can see this is a seven star house. 140 00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:45.700 And this is a six star house. 141 00:09:45.780 --> 00:09:46.560 I'm going to go for this one. 142 00:09:46.900 --> 00:09:48.720 We don't have that level yet in SA. 143 00:09:48.900 --> 00:09:53.480 So talking about the local network, it's very difficult to look at two properties that may 144 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.920 look identical, whereas this one is up to the teeth and this one isn't. 145 00:09:57.040 --> 00:09:59.500 The average punter is not going to pick the difference. 146 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:05.560 So if I was to go another person, I'll be Yara now, and I've come to buy Jared's house. 147 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.340 It's $600,000 I've got on the market. 148 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:12.520 Yara has to go to a bank and says, I want to borrow $600,000 to buy Jared's house. 149 00:10:12.580 --> 00:10:12.960 It's beautiful. 150 00:10:13.140 --> 00:10:14.520 It's got all the sustainability features. 151 00:10:14.640 --> 00:10:17.140 The bank's going to say, yes, that might be enough for you. 152 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:22.260 But if you don't make your payments and you need to default on your loan, and I'm the 153 00:10:22.260 --> 00:10:27.320 bank and I now need to panic sell your house, is there going to be enough interest at that 154 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:30.140 $600,000 price point to sell it? 155 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:31.720 And that's the barrier right now. 156 00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:32.540 Yep. 157 00:10:32.800 --> 00:10:42.100 So a lot of people are trying to create particular solutions, and some people might even buy 158 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:42.460 into it. 159 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:44.540 But there's a lot of externalities. 160 00:10:44.640 --> 00:10:49.820 At play when we're talking about how does how does the market further market acceptance 161 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:54.540 for a lot of this is, you know, there's a lot of financial sort of like aspects to it 162 00:10:54.540 --> 00:10:59.400 that needs to be consideration and probably even further discussed and changed. 163 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:02.780 And now if it was you and you were buying a property yourself and you wanted to keep 164 00:11:02.780 --> 00:11:06.800 it forever, is it a good investment for you with a long term vision of keeping that property 165 00:11:06.800 --> 00:11:07.200 for yourself? 166 00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:08.160 Absolutely. 167 00:11:09.220 --> 00:11:09.620 Absolutely. 168 00:11:09.660 --> 00:11:14.300 And it is getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper to add solar PV and some storage or 169 00:11:14.300 --> 00:11:14.620 even more. 170 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:15.880 And insulation or glazing. 171 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.880 So if it's you and you're keeping it, yes, if you're panicked and trying to upsell and 172 00:11:19.880 --> 00:11:21.540 sell it, you might struggle. 173 00:11:21.800 --> 00:11:21.980 Yeah. 174 00:11:22.060 --> 00:11:25.380 Which kind of creates a lot of conversations about like the renter market, all these kind 175 00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:25.600 of things. 176 00:11:25.640 --> 00:11:27.600 But maybe that will come a little bit later. 177 00:11:27.980 --> 00:11:30.220 So thank you very much for kicking us off there, Jared. 178 00:11:30.300 --> 00:11:31.080 Really appreciate it. 179 00:11:31.660 --> 00:11:32.160 Thank you. 180 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:33.660 We'll move on to Yara. 181 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:39.320 So you know, with with extensive experience across many different scales in architecture, 182 00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:44.600 I want to get a little bit of insight from you on how can designers and architects, you 183 00:11:44.620 --> 00:11:51.420 know, architects balance budget constraints because that drives a lot of ways that buildings 184 00:11:51.420 --> 00:11:52.000 are designed. 185 00:11:52.140 --> 00:11:58.780 So, you know, how do we budget the the sorry, balance the budget constraints and drive positive 186 00:11:58.780 --> 00:12:03.180 environmental and human well-being outcomes because they're tied hand to hand in the built 187 00:12:03.180 --> 00:12:09.380 environment and, you know, like how can sustainability be synonymous with good design? 188 00:12:09.540 --> 00:12:11.640 So everyone thinks that's part of the package. 189 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:12.800 Right. 190 00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:17.940 I'm going to start from the end and work my way back to the beginning. 191 00:12:19.880 --> 00:12:26.780 Good design process by definition has sustainable results because good design is research based. 192 00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:30.480 It's it's breaking down the problem into the components. 193 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:38.060 It's always about finding the right balance between the budget, but also between the the 194 00:12:38.060 --> 00:12:41.100 unique set of constraints that you have for your problem. 195 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:42.460 Now, every project is different. 196 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:42.780 It's not always the same. 197 00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:43.460 It's not always the same. 198 00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:46.820 Even if it's the same client, even if it's the same site, there's always a difference. 199 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.260 There's always a balancing act. 200 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:56.580 What we bring to the table is that we look at the bigger picture and we look at the longer 201 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:57.100 view. 202 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:02.020 So in particular, in Hameshawley, where I'm at at the moment, the design process is fantastic. 203 00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:07.520 I've got a lot of rigor in the design, a lot of research, a lot of peer review, and that 204 00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:12.200 brings a robustness to the design, to the process, but also to the outcome. 205 00:13:12.780 --> 00:13:17.060 Which, by definition, gives you the sustainable outcome because it is a longer view and it 206 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:17.880 is balanced. 207 00:13:19.260 --> 00:13:24.380 In terms of demonstrating that to the client, that's the real issue we've got. 208 00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:28.980 And this is where we're actually seeing a shift, which is fantastic because our clients 209 00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:31.400 are becoming more and more informed, better informed. 210 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.240 And they are the ones that are now driving us to find these solutions. 211 00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:41.180 So we're not no longer working in a hostile environment where it's a hard sell for us 212 00:13:41.180 --> 00:13:44.920 to say, look, double glazed or triple glazed windows are really important. 213 00:13:45.260 --> 00:13:49.420 We actually have clients coming to us and saying, I need to have double glazed, otherwise 214 00:13:49.420 --> 00:13:50.840 I'm not going to sell my property. 215 00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:54.720 So having informed client is definitely a big part of the conversation. 216 00:13:55.500 --> 00:14:01.020 Another great part of the conversation is that it's shifting now to a place where people 217 00:14:01.020 --> 00:14:06.280 are getting a bit scared about climate change and about their own responsibility. 218 00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:10.940 So developers are now hearing the words climate change. 219 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.160 They're saying, oops, we've got to take notice of this because this means that we're actually 220 00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:18.380 responsible for delivering really good outcomes. 221 00:14:19.380 --> 00:14:25.180 This means that our shareholders and people that have a vested interest in our company 222 00:14:25.820 --> 00:14:30.980 are actually informed enough to say to us, you're not working hard enough to get the 223 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:32.040 best design outcomes. 224 00:14:32.620 --> 00:14:35.020 Your projects are not at a high enough level. 225 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.580 We're not going to support you anymore in your endeavors. 226 00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:40.300 So that shift, I think, is really key. 227 00:14:40.520 --> 00:14:40.920 Thank you. 228 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:50.880 And I think the points around, in terms of even the architecture or design industry, 229 00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:56.340 a lot of people, or the intent is to be able to create good outcomes for people. 230 00:14:56.740 --> 00:15:03.980 And being that synonymous with environmental outcomes as well, it's good to hear that the 231 00:15:03.980 --> 00:15:09.320 people that are pushing their outcomes, so the developers, there is a little bit of shift 232 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:10.920 of the mindset and how they're approaching it. 233 00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:14.540 The rest of it is around the expansion of the expansion of the expansion around the 234 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:19.060 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 235 00:15:19.060 --> 00:15:20.780 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 236 00:15:20.780 --> 00:15:21.780 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 237 00:15:21.780 --> 00:15:22.560 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 238 00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:23.020 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 239 00:15:23.020 --> 00:15:23.180 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 240 00:15:23.180 --> 00:15:26.000 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 241 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:26.820 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 242 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:29.720 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 243 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.200 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 244 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:39.620 expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the expansion around the 245 00:15:39.620 --> 00:15:46.000 currently evaluating sustainability as like a core component as what they want to create for you know 246 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:50.100 Whether it's a potential client or even your own developers 247 00:15:51.860 --> 00:15:58.340 Investments and is it is it looked at as something necessary in the in the outcome as I was alluding to 248 00:15:59.180 --> 00:16:00.000 Thanks, Ken 249 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.620 Firstly I feel like I'm the bad guy up here 250 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:08.700 If anyone's gonna get it all thrown at them. No, it's gonna be the developer 251 00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:12.160 There's this assassination going down. It's going to be me 252 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:14.040 But 253 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.920 Attitudes within the property development 254 00:16:19.020 --> 00:16:25.840 Industry are still a bit mixed and I think that that that largely comes from a lot of confusion and a misunderstanding 255 00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:31.540 Broadly speaking within that sector about what sustainability means 256 00:16:33.380 --> 00:16:35.360 Within this certainly within the commercial 257 00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:39.600 Sector there there's there's a broad understanding and acceptance 258 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:42.060 Of the value of performance benchmarks 259 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:43.720 things like 260 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:44.640 neighbors 261 00:16:45.520 --> 00:16:50.520 Which is just one a green star have a green star performance is another one and essentially 262 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:54.380 They're a bit like the writing tools and the job is talking about but for commercial buildings 263 00:16:54.380 --> 00:17:01.620 And when you put your office space up for lease it comes with a neighbor's rating and then everyone has an understanding about the relevant 264 00:17:02.260 --> 00:17:03.700 operating cost of that space 265 00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:09.600 But those writing tools are easily understood because they relate directly to 266 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.640 operating cost and there 267 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.120 They're a financial driver, which also has a sustainable 268 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:18.360 benefit not 269 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:23.400 Sustainability for sustainability sake so I think when when we start to propose 270 00:17:24.420 --> 00:17:26.700 benchmark systems that are more ideological 271 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:33.060 Such as the living building challenge which takes into account a whole range of things 272 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.720 For those of you aren't familiar with that. You know, he puts to consider 273 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:36.880 the 274 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:43.980 The sustainability of the supply chain of the materials that you that you're incorporating into your building 275 00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:46.920 So it goes into sustainability in a number of different ways 276 00:17:48.620 --> 00:17:54.140 There is a lot more difficulty in persuading people in the value of that 277 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.760 As a part of that product and I think a lot of that is driven by demand 278 00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:04.880 Which really is what Jared's point was as well. These things are demand driven 279 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:05.660 So 280 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:14.480 That that is shifting I believe and it's being it's being driven that shift is being driven by a couple of factors one of which is 281 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:17.140 governments and and their 282 00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:20.720 acquisition of building assets and 283 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.900 And their recognition that they need to lead the way in asking for sustainability 284 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:31.040 So they're asking for buildings that that achieve a certain green star standard or a world rating 285 00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:32.780 They're starting to move into world ratings 286 00:18:32.780 --> 00:18:34.860 or if they don't specifically ask for 287 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:40.260 That sort of rating they're asking for the building design to at least adopt that as a model 288 00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:41.740 Even if they don't go for a rating 289 00:18:42.360 --> 00:18:48.560 So that's a really good driver. So that that means that people are becoming familiar then with property that has 290 00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:57.040 Been driven to meet a certain benchmark and that that in people's mindsets that's becoming something that's more normal and that will over time 291 00:18:58.360 --> 00:18:59.400 shape people's 292 00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:01.180 opinions about what they want 293 00:19:01.820 --> 00:19:04.560 The other factor I think that is driving that demand 294 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:04.860 is 295 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:13.980 The the push for super funds to really move their investments into responsible 296 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:16.020 responsible investment options 297 00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:23.060 And that there's been a huge shift in that over 30 30 percent in the last two years 298 00:19:23.060 --> 00:19:26.660 of super funds and investment funds generally 299 00:19:27.340 --> 00:19:34.280 Increasing their responsible investment portfolio and a lot of those funds investing commercial properties there there, you know to return on their 300 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:41.660 So I think those two things together are really pushing the market along and 301 00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:43.380 consumers are 302 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:50.140 becoming more conscious about what they're buying and I think that's I think it is it is moving and I think 303 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:54.900 It will it will get ever developers are driven by customer demand 304 00:19:55.940 --> 00:20:02.360 Yeah, and I really appreciate sort of like the themes that are really coming coming through so far that you know 305 00:20:02.360 --> 00:20:04.300 It's like a little bit of the market demand 306 00:20:04.300 --> 00:20:05.080 It's a little bit of 307 00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:07.020 corporate risk 308 00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:10.460 And having to maybe think about investing into there 309 00:20:11.060 --> 00:20:15.280 And also a little bit of optimism as well that a lot of people are just becoming a little bit more aware 310 00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:18.600 now now sandy 311 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:26.340 You know, you've kind of seen a lot of a lot of these kind of it's like principles or elements. I'm kind of bubbling up 312 00:20:26.860 --> 00:20:27.960 but now within 313 00:20:28.760 --> 00:20:33.740 Your your role at the city of Adelaide and things like that and also the city switch program particularly 314 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:38.520 I'm like to ask you a little bit more of you know, the insight from the business 315 00:20:38.520 --> 00:20:43.620 I like what they are seeing so are that are there a lot of financial? 316 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:50.260 drivers for the businesses and residents of Adelaide to seek out real estate with 317 00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:56.260 Sustainability features or you can tying into almost like even transparency rating systems and things like that 318 00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:58.720 Thanks again for the question 319 00:20:59.260 --> 00:21:04.280 Look, I just I suppose like to concur with the other speakers in saying 320 00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:08.020 That when you've got an educated market then there's a financial driver 321 00:21:08.020 --> 00:21:13.520 So having people be aware of what is what are the values of sustainability features in your buildings? 322 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.280 creates value and 323 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:18.240 also that when you have 324 00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:19.680 in particular 325 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.280 Voluntary ratings are okay 326 00:21:23.060 --> 00:21:27.960 but in the examples where we've had legislated ratings whether that's 327 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:34.020 Like in Canberra for their housing where they've got star ratings. We don't have that in South Australia yet 328 00:21:34.020 --> 00:21:40.120 It makes it very difficult when you're purchasing a house to compare and to evaluate when you have legislated 329 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:47.080 Ratings it makes a big difference and with commercial buildings. It's really about making sure that 330 00:21:48.820 --> 00:21:55.820 Suppose that that transparency when you're buying property is there and there is a point of comparison so concurring with that now 331 00:21:58.820 --> 00:22:02.560 When I think of a business occupying a space 332 00:22:04.020 --> 00:22:08.800 If you think of sustainability features a little bit like Yara said which is that it's a better building 333 00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:10.360 It's a considered building 334 00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:15.700 It's been designed to have a balance of things considered in its constructors 335 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:22.180 Not just slapped up in the cheapest possible way that you can get that building up quickly at the lowest point that the regulation is 336 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:26.360 going to permit you to do that with least regard for the environment and 337 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:33.680 The people around it if it's a considered approach. It's a better building and sustainability features in buildings and 338 00:22:34.020 --> 00:22:34.940 sustainability design 339 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.800 are better buildings 340 00:22:36.800 --> 00:22:42.080 And so I kind of use the term a high performing building and a high performing building has got lots of attributes 341 00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:47.400 Which you might not immediately think you've got a financial value the ones that come top to mind are things like oh 342 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:52.200 Well, if it's energy efficient, it's going to be cheaper to run because you're gonna have lower energy costs 343 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:53.240 So that's pretty straightforward 344 00:22:53.780 --> 00:22:59.380 Some of the others are things like maintenance if you've got LED lights as composed to halogens 345 00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:03.600 Well, then you've got a lower maintenance cost you need to send somebody out to replace those lights 346 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:04.000 Let's say a 347 00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:06.920 Less regularly, so that's a human cost 348 00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:11.040 But then there's the health and well-being aspect as well 349 00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:17.180 So when you've got a building that's got natural daylight in it and so consider going to your workplace 350 00:23:17.760 --> 00:23:20.700 Would you prefer to be in an environment that was? 351 00:23:21.780 --> 00:23:22.420 light 352 00:23:23.100 --> 00:23:25.900 Naturally light but also supplemented by good 353 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:30.480 Electric lighting family comfortable not too hot not too cold 354 00:23:31.220 --> 00:23:33.180 Not damp but dry 355 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:40.740 Maybe has got some some elements that remind you of nature some views of nature 356 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:42.760 Not just of a wall 357 00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:49.660 Those types of attributes and also the chemical load, you know an environment that actually feels nurturing 358 00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:56.060 It's actually supporting your health your respiratory health and just the burden of chemicals on your body. That's a better building 359 00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:01.620 So there's a financial value in that too because it comes down to your hate 360 00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:04.000 It's a HR cost and this is what people probably don't know about 361 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.500 And I think that's the thing that people probably don't understand is that if you've got a really lovely building 362 00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:09.480 Whether it's your and you can equate this to your home as well a little bit 363 00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:15.620 But you kind of say I'm going to attract better stuff if I've got a nice premises and all of these beautiful 364 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:20.520 Sustainability features that make that place a really welcoming enjoyable place to be 365 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:26.500 That's going to attract better stuff and it's going to and the data shows it keeps better stuff 366 00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:31.100 And if you've trained and invested in that person in your business, and you've got your intellectual 367 00:24:31.100 --> 00:24:31.900 You know? 368 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.640 They've got your corporate capital in their head 369 00:24:34.780 --> 00:25:03.940 You know it 370 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:09.560 thinking about a building where the materials are non-toxic so that they're manufactured 371 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:16.160 with less impact wherever they're manufactured. It's closed loop, it's not creating waste 372 00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:21.380 and it's not wrecking our world's ecosystems, not only our local ecosystems which are important 373 00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:27.260 as well, but the global ecosystem. So when I talk about this split incentive, we choose 374 00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:38.540 one small thing. We choose to put, for example, a natural finish on our flooring as opposed 375 00:25:38.540 --> 00:25:44.540 to a petrochemical based finish on our flooring. It has an impact on our own health but it 376 00:25:44.540 --> 00:25:50.780 also impacts the community that manufactured that, which is probably not here. It's probably 377 00:25:50.780 --> 00:25:56.380 in a developing country and they've probably got health impacts as a result of that. That 378 00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:57.240 is a fundamental issue. 379 00:25:57.260 --> 00:25:59.560 So I think that's a big financial burden on the world. I just wanted to draw that point 380 00:25:59.560 --> 00:26:04.880 that often those impacts, they are financial but they're not felt by us. 381 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:17.240 I think a lot of the discussion that we've been having so far is you have to really think 382 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:22.240 about buildings and the built environment or our cities as long-term investments as 383 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:27.240 well. So when we talk about are sustainable buildings affordable, it's not just about 384 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:33.120 the up front cost that we really have to consider. Going into the future, if we can 385 00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:40.400 actually take into consideration or what are the ongoing impacts or what is the resale 386 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:47.660 value or what does it actually do to our citizens, what is the cost to them, then we actually 387 00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:55.500 start to stack up a lot of the, I guess the conversation starts to shift or you're talking 388 00:26:55.500 --> 00:27:00.340 about good design also equals really good investment and will be really good 389 00:27:00.340 --> 00:27:02.420 for anyone's portfolio going into the future. 390 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:04.220 Can I add something? 391 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:04.920 Yeah, for sure. 392 00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:10.520 I actually think that the value of sustainable technology is pretty well understood 393 00:27:10.520 --> 00:27:14.920 and if someone was able to say this house is better for the environment and better for 394 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.480 you than this one is, most people are going to go for that one that's fairly cut and dry. 395 00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:25.900 Unlike commercial building, residential is for you, so you are buying this for yourself. 396 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.020 When you're building a commercial building, very often it's not going to be you or your 397 00:27:30.020 --> 00:27:32.220 company that's in there, it's going to be for a tenant. 398 00:27:32.420 --> 00:27:36.240 When you're designing that sort of a building, you want it to be cost effective and cheaper. 399 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:42.100 Probably a question for Sandy, for me if you don't mind, is do you think that the companies 400 00:27:42.100 --> 00:27:46.900 that you work with appreciate or can put a value on the health benefits of a better building, 401 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:47.560