WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:07.240 This session of the 2013 Adelaide Festival of Ideas was recorded by Radio Adelaide, through 2 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:12.100 the support of the Bar Smith Library, University of Adelaide, the University of South Australia 3 00:00:12.100 --> 00:00:14.500 Library and Flinders University Library. 4 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:20.080 Welcome to the Festival of Ideas session, Get Your Hate On. 5 00:00:20.200 --> 00:00:24.680 My name is Amanda Blair and when they asked me to chair this session I went, get your 6 00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:27.480 hate on, man I never take my hate off. 7 00:00:29.020 --> 00:00:32.300 What we're going to do in just a moment is introduce our four speakers. 8 00:00:32.620 --> 00:00:39.260 They will then present to you for a short period of time on the selected subject and 9 00:00:39.260 --> 00:00:44.420 then after that we'll be having an audience Q&A and it's great to see such a packed audience 10 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:49.500 here today for our guests and I'm sure there's going to be lots of very interesting and varied 11 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:50.900 questions that are asked. 12 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.980 So I might just introduce our speakers one by one if I can. 13 00:00:55.420 --> 00:00:57.460 Peter Frey is the founder and editor of Adelaide. 14 00:00:57.480 --> 00:01:01.500 He's the founder and editor-in-chief, oh should we have you all up at once? 15 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:02.560 All of you come up. 16 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.180 I was going to sort of get you up like at the Academy Awards where you applaud them 17 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:09.460 up but maybe if you can all just come up, that would be fantastic. 18 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:10.980 There we go. 19 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:14.820 Take your seats, adjust your microphones. 20 00:01:16.180 --> 00:01:16.820 I know. 21 00:01:19.100 --> 00:01:27.020 So, firstly, in the white shirt, Peter Frey is the founder and editor-in-chief of PolitiFact 22 00:01:27.020 --> 00:01:27.380 Australia. 23 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:32.620 Australia's first stand-alone fact-checking website, an adjunct professor in media and 24 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:37.980 politics at Sydney University and the former editor or editor-in-chief of the Sydney Morning 25 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:40.600 Herald, the Canberra Times and the Sunday Age. 26 00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:45.460 His current projects include digital start-ups and outsourced production projects in old 27 00:01:45.460 --> 00:01:45.820 media. 28 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:47.760 Please welcome him to the stage. 29 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.480 Thank you. 30 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.960 David Maher in the rust-coloured shirt. 31 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:02.200 He's the award-winning author of four quarterly essays including his master's voice, power 32 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:06.100 trip, political animal and the latest, A Profile of George Pell. 33 00:02:06.240 --> 00:02:11.820 His books include Patrick White, A Life, The High Price of Heaven and Dark Victory with 34 00:02:11.820 --> 00:02:12.840 Marian Wilkinson. 35 00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:16.280 He has written for the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age and The Monthly. 36 00:02:16.380 --> 00:02:21.360 He's been the editor of the National Times, a reporter for Four Corners, presenter for 37 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:27.000 ABC TV's Media Watch and as a member of the media. 38 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:32.640 I used to absolutely shit myself every Monday night at about 9.20 thinking that I might 39 00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:33.140 be on it. 40 00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:37.580 And he now writes for The Guardian Australia. 41 00:02:37.700 --> 00:02:39.200 Please welcome him to the festival. 42 00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:51.900 Gideon Haig in the black t-shirt has been a journalist for 30 years. 43 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:56.200 He's the author of 26 books and the editor of seven others. 44 00:02:56.260 --> 00:02:56.900 That's breathtaking. 45 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:02.440 His book, The Office, A Hardworking History, won the Douglas Stewart Prize for Non-Fiction 46 00:03:02.440 --> 00:03:04.700 at the New South Wales Premier's Literary Awards. 47 00:03:04.980 --> 00:03:08.200 He writes mainly for The Times and The Australian. 48 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:09.640 Please welcome him here today. 49 00:03:15.200 --> 00:03:21.240 And of course, resplendent and vintage on the far right of the stage is Adelaide's very 50 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:22.800 own Annabelle Crabb. 51 00:03:22.940 --> 00:03:26.980 She is the ABC chief online political writer and host of the popular... 52 00:03:28.700 --> 00:03:32.800 I never thought those two words would go together. 53 00:03:32.900 --> 00:03:34.100 Political cooking program. 54 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:39.540 Her career started at the advertiser, but since then she's moved on to be a political 55 00:03:39.540 --> 00:03:45.160 correspondent, a sketch writer and UK correspondent for various titles at Fairfax, where she's 56 00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:47.560 currently a syndicated Sunday columnist. 57 00:03:47.620 --> 00:03:54.620 She won a Walkley Award for her 2009 essay on Malcolm Turnbull and was Australia's 2011 58 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:56.440 Eisenhower Fellow. 59 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.120 She regularly appears on the telly. 60 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:03.580 Most recently, she's done a splendid job this last week on the 7.30 Report. 61 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:04.480 She's done a great job. 62 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:09.100 She also is a mother of three children and has written several books, and I'm exhausted 63 00:04:09.100 --> 00:04:12.000 just thinking about what she crams into her day. 64 00:04:12.140 --> 00:04:13.580 Please welcome Annabelle Crabb. 65 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:18.020 So... 66 00:04:18.020 --> 00:04:18.540 Homecoming queen. 67 00:04:19.780 --> 00:04:20.900 Homecoming queen, yes. 68 00:04:20.960 --> 00:04:22.500 Our session today... 69 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:23.600 I get this kind of perception. 70 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:26.980 In Pimble, they go crazy. 71 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:27.580 Crazy for me. 72 00:04:28.200 --> 00:04:28.760 Yeah. 73 00:04:30.760 --> 00:04:32.320 You can be the homecoming queen. 74 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:37.960 Our session description today is whatever happened to the term bipartisan approach? 75 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:42.140 The state of political rhetoric is more vicious than ever before. 76 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:42.980 Why? 77 00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:46.620 Is this the sign of an ageing, angry population? 78 00:04:47.080 --> 00:04:47.320 What? 79 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:49.100 Do you get more angry as you get older, Annabelle? 80 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:49.780 I wouldn't know that. 81 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:53.800 Is it the shock jocks or are the rabid front pages to blame? 82 00:04:53.940 --> 00:04:56.080 And what exactly is a troll? 83 00:04:56.340 --> 00:04:56.900 So... 84 00:04:56.900 --> 00:05:00.980 So that is our conversation today, and I'm sure that many of us have things to contribute, 85 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:02.180 but perhaps... 86 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:03.840 Are we angry? 87 00:05:04.060 --> 00:05:05.000 Are we more angry? 88 00:05:05.180 --> 00:05:06.520 Annabelle, would you like to go first? 89 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:07.760 I'm happy to. 90 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:08.260 No, I will. 91 00:05:08.380 --> 00:05:08.720 Okay. 92 00:05:08.820 --> 00:05:09.220 All right. 93 00:05:09.840 --> 00:05:10.980 Are we more angry? 94 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.180 Is this thing on in the classic Johnny Carson... 95 00:05:14.180 --> 00:05:15.440 No, I can't hear. 96 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:15.960 It's not. 97 00:05:16.020 --> 00:05:17.600 Can we have it ramped up to 11? 98 00:05:18.140 --> 00:05:18.780 I can... 99 00:05:18.780 --> 00:05:19.900 I can shout. 100 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.220 Oh, see, that's sounding more resonant to me, or maybe that's just my voice developing. 101 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:24.640 No? 102 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:24.920 Good. 103 00:05:25.100 --> 00:05:25.280 Hooray. 104 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:26.700 Are we... 105 00:05:26.900 --> 00:05:27.320 Angrier? 106 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:33.820 Look, I think, yes, we are, but we're also more audible, and, you know, the internet 107 00:05:33.820 --> 00:05:39.440 is like an ear trumpet to the world, really, and everybody who, in the past, might have 108 00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:45.520 sworn under their breath whilst listening to the breakfast radio or yelled at someone 109 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:53.560 in the confines of their own automotive contraption as they make their way to work can now just 110 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.160 get online and tell everybody about it. 111 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:02.980 So, you know, public interaction with politics is this sort of cacophony of everybody's innermost 112 00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:09.020 thoughts communicated instantly without even the insulation of having to find a stamp or, 113 00:06:09.100 --> 00:06:11.280 you know, find an envelope. 114 00:06:11.380 --> 00:06:15.580 I can never find an envelope in my house, but I can tell somebody in a public position 115 00:06:15.580 --> 00:06:21.300 what a complete twerp I think they are in real time, and it's obviously highly satisfying, 116 00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:26.140 but a little bit shameful, which is why people on Twitter don't call themselves by their... 117 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:26.520 their names. 118 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:32.620 They call themselves, you know, Handelbarms-68, and that way they can really tell you what 119 00:06:32.620 --> 00:06:36.400 a complete turd you are without having to be accountable for it. 120 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:43.240 But I wanted to lay the groundwork with politics and just remind you, when you look back with 121 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:49.820 intense loathing at the last three and a half or so years and think, God, is this the worst 122 00:06:49.820 --> 00:06:55.580 politics has ever been, and why is everybody so awful, I want to just remind you of what 123 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.280 infrastructure has been over the last three years. 124 00:06:59.420 --> 00:07:03.540 Because, I mean, normally in Australia, the way that we approach federal elections is 125 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:04.200 really simple. 126 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:11.140 If a government has been in there for usually a term too long, we throw them out. 127 00:07:11.580 --> 00:07:18.300 We generally decide to make someone the government in the lower house, and then we use our innate 128 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:21.780 national sense of humour to persecute them in the Senate. 129 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:25.800 So we'll say, OK, John Howard, you seem like a... 130 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:26.120 You know? 131 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.860 You know, a reliable sort of chap will install you in 1996. 132 00:07:30.380 --> 00:07:36.540 However, we will make your life hell with Democrats, and even five years from now, they're 133 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:40.280 going to be arguing with you about whether LaVos bread should be taxable, and that's 134 00:07:40.280 --> 00:07:42.880 going to be your earthly burden for the next little bit. 135 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:43.860 So that's what we do. 136 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:50.760 What happened in 2010 was that we didn't make a national decision about who would be in 137 00:07:50.760 --> 00:07:53.780 government in the lower house, not very clearly anyway. 138 00:07:54.440 --> 00:07:55.440 We voted. 139 00:07:55.440 --> 00:07:55.700 We voted. 140 00:07:55.700 --> 00:08:01.140 And then instead of, as we usually do, walking away and forgetting about it for three years, 141 00:08:01.340 --> 00:08:05.240 we had 17 days of, does anyone know what's... 142 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:05.360 No? 143 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:05.940 Me neither. 144 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:06.940 What is going? 145 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:07.500 Not sure. 146 00:08:07.700 --> 00:08:17.820 And then 17 minutes of Rob Oakeshott, and then this sort of unwieldy pantomime horse of a 147 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:25.280 minority government that was sort of part Oakeshott, part Windsor, part former spy, current rug salesman, 148 00:08:25.440 --> 00:08:31.540 from Tasmania, Andrew Wilkie, just in case you're wondering, who became, I think, when 149 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:37.020 he rejected Tony Abbott's offer of a billion dollars for the Hobart Hospital and went with 150 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:39.540 Julia Gillard, 350 million instead. 151 00:08:39.640 --> 00:08:44.440 I think he became the only rug salesman in the history of rug sales to bargain downwards. 152 00:08:44.900 --> 00:08:45.540 But anyway. 153 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:55.420 So the government, every day of its working life since, didn't have the advantage... 154 00:08:55.440 --> 00:09:00.580 which most governments have, of predictability, of absolute certainty that whatever business 155 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:04.320 came up in the House of Reps would be won by the government. 156 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:06.080 They did not have that luxury. 157 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:11.040 And as a result, every vote was, to some extent, fraught. 158 00:09:11.140 --> 00:09:14.820 And when the outcome is fraught, then the arguments become louder. 159 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:23.040 And the stakes are raised for the welfare or the continued existence in their seat of 160 00:09:23.040 --> 00:09:25.160 every member of the House of Representatives. 161 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:30.960 You may have noticed that the excitement about pursuing Craig Thompson waxed and waned 162 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.180 depending on how dependent on his vote the government was. 163 00:09:35.400 --> 00:09:40.400 So once Peter Slipper was kind of over the line, then somehow people lost interest in 164 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:44.080 Craig Thompson, right up to the point where Peter Slipper had his incident with the strawberry 165 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:47.720 farmer PR guy, and that all opened up. 166 00:09:47.800 --> 00:09:49.380 Why do strawberry farms even need PR? 167 00:09:49.540 --> 00:09:49.860 Anyway. 168 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:54.680 So that is why a lot of the political discourses... 169 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:00.940 I think, in the last few years, the things that we count on to be certainties weren't 170 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:01.300 certain. 171 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:07.540 In fact, they were debatable, they were contestable, and contest them, people did, loudly, viciously, 172 00:10:07.540 --> 00:10:12.140 and in the manner of an election campaign, which is normally something in which we indulge 173 00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:13.320 only every three years. 174 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:13.740 Thank you. 175 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:15.520 Well done, Annabelle. 176 00:10:15.540 --> 00:10:15.860 David? 177 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:17.320 David? 178 00:10:20.300 --> 00:10:24.940 Yesterday, a directive was issued by the Immigration Department. 179 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:35.000 To change the official language by which refugees arriving in this country by boat are to be known. 180 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.220 Under the previous government, they were called irregular maritime arrivals. 181 00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:47.640 Under the new government, they are to be called illegal maritime arrivals. 182 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:48.600 Oh. 183 00:10:50.580 --> 00:10:54.840 Now, this has been the description of them as illegals. 184 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:07.140 It has been part of the fighting weaponry of the coalition right back to the days when Malcolm Turnbull was the leader of the opposition, and when the boats started to return. 185 00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:16.120 His deeply unattractive spokesman for immigration matters was referring to them then as illegals. 186 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:25.120 Tony Abbott became leader of the opposition, and Scott Morrison became his spokesman for immigration affairs. 187 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:34.940 And they have never ceased to refer to refugees arriving in this country by boat as illegals. 188 00:11:35.260 --> 00:11:37.640 That has been the language of fighting politics. 189 00:11:38.760 --> 00:11:41.680 It's now become the official language of the nation. 190 00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:51.120 The thing is, of course, that they have broken no laws coming to this country by boat to seek refugee protection. 191 00:11:52.060 --> 00:11:54.780 We have signed as a nation, as a sovereign nation, 192 00:11:54.780 --> 00:12:06.320 two international conventions which guarantee their right to come to this country by boat and not be punished for doing so in any way. 193 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:20.260 But now, though they have broken no law, this government and the Department of Immigration is, it seems, to refer to them officially as illegals. 194 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:24.760 And I just don't know what to say. 195 00:12:24.760 --> 00:12:26.360 I don't know where we go from there. 196 00:12:27.580 --> 00:12:39.980 Somewhere deep down in my training, I'm a lawyer, and it seems to me to be an important part of the understanding of the conduct of political debate in this country, 197 00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:48.300 that we don't smear groups of people in ways which they simply have no reason to be smeared for. 198 00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:54.300 This is to be the official language of this country. 199 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:54.740 This is to be the official language of this country. 200 00:12:54.760 --> 00:12:57.820 These people who have committed no crime are to be called illegals. 201 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:05.860 On Monday, I'm going to be reporting for The Guardian, and others will be reporting in other publications, because they are so wonderful. 202 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:14.080 The latest figures, what Paul Keating would call a beautiful set of figures, 203 00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:21.600 of the Scanlon Foundation's now annual surveys of social cohesion in this country. 204 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:40.880 They are the most wonderful figures of a country that is essentially so tolerant, and so pleased, basically, with itself, almost smugly pleased with itself. 205 00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:50.560 And one of those findings is a confirmation of a finding that the Scanlon people have, 206 00:13:54.700 --> 00:14:07.080 and the largest information system of the system, has been reduced by 절� 207 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:13.680 which is wrong in law, and wrong, it seems to me, also simply as a civic act, wrong, 208 00:14:14.540 --> 00:14:20.600 has been changed to match a belief in the public, which is also wrong. 209 00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:25.620 And it seems to me that one of the most interesting things in the next few weeks 210 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:29.140 is going to be whether it is contested in the press. 211 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:34.900 Are people going to be standing up when Scott Morrison has press conferences to say, 212 00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:37.900 yes, but what law have they broken? 213 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:42.220 The other thing that the Scanlon figures show so beautifully 214 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:49.680 is the deep, deep distrust this country now has of government, Canberra in particular. 215 00:14:50.260 --> 00:14:53.660 We trust. You couldn't believe it. You couldn't believe... 216 00:14:53.660 --> 00:14:55.380 I'm breaking an embargo here, ladies and gentlemen, 217 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.720 so I don't want you to talk about this outside the room. 218 00:14:58.280 --> 00:15:04.880 But trust in hospitals, the police, and public education, 219 00:15:04.900 --> 00:15:09.400 in this country, runs at between 85% and 90%. 220 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:15.980 Trust in government, Canberra, runs at the moment at 27%. 221 00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:20.500 And it's falling slightly. 222 00:15:21.340 --> 00:15:25.360 And one of the delicious things about it, and on this point I will end, 223 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:30.000 is that the older you get, the more you distrust government. 224 00:15:31.400 --> 00:15:34.740 Trust. Trust. High levels of trust. 225 00:15:34.900 --> 00:15:35.020 Trust. 226 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.280 Occur in childhood. 227 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.200 Between the ages of 18 and 24, Australians at the moment, 228 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:50.240 40% of them trust that Canberra will do the right thing by us most of the time. 229 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:56.300 But by the time you're 65, that has collapsed to 19%. 230 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:03.620 We are in a slough of despond, a slough of despond about government. 231 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:04.700 But we're not about... 232 00:16:04.900 --> 00:16:05.040 We're not about the state. 233 00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:08.320 That's interesting. I find that an interesting paradox. 234 00:16:08.760 --> 00:16:10.220 We are not about the state. 235 00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:12.840 So why? Why are they moving in inverse relation? 236 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:19.560 No. No, because Australians, and the figures are very, very similar in Britain, 237 00:16:19.680 --> 00:16:22.260 and this can start me off in one of my favourite raves 238 00:16:22.260 --> 00:16:24.880 about how astonishingly British Australia remains. 239 00:16:26.140 --> 00:16:28.920 We trust the state. We trust the state. 240 00:16:29.040 --> 00:16:30.340 We trust law and order. 241 00:16:30.420 --> 00:16:33.980 We trust the institutions of the state to look after us. 242 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:36.260 But Parliament is not one of the institutions. 243 00:16:36.620 --> 00:16:38.000 But we don't... 244 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:43.200 I don't think I've ever seen a poll that tries to separate trust in Parliament 245 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.140 as against trust in government. 246 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.200 But trust in government is low and slipping, 247 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:56.780 whereas trust in the apparatus of the state is firm and remaining firm. 248 00:16:56.980 --> 00:16:57.220 Right. 249 00:16:57.660 --> 00:17:01.840 As we lose trust in politics, do we transfer our allegiance to the state? 250 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.620 No, I think that allegiance has... 251 00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:06.140 This is a historically strong allegiance. 252 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.160 And, of course, one of the institutions of the state 253 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.520 that Australians most trust is the ABC. 254 00:17:14.840 --> 00:17:15.540 It's true. 255 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.420 Trust in the ABC runs at the moment at about 80%. 256 00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:23.680 Compare that to trust in the politicians who attack the ABC, 257 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.300 which appears to be running at roughly 27%. 258 00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:29.740 Enough from me for the moment. 259 00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:31.460 Gideon, I might ask you next. 260 00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:31.700 Next. 261 00:17:32.820 --> 00:17:37.060 I was reading a biography of A.J.P. Taylor recently, 262 00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:41.700 and it talks about the day which he went to be interviewed 263 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:43.740 for a job at, I think, at All Souls. 264 00:17:44.580 --> 00:17:46.420 And he was asked... 265 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:48.960 One of the people at the interview panel said, 266 00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:51.480 we hear that you're a man of strong opinions. 267 00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:54.100 And he said, on the contrary, 268 00:17:54.260 --> 00:17:56.760 I'm a man of extreme opinions, weakly held. 269 00:17:57.840 --> 00:17:58.320 LAUGHTER 270 00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:01.260 And I identify very strongly with... 271 00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:02.200 with that. 272 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:02.980 It's... 273 00:18:02.980 --> 00:18:03.280 It's... 274 00:18:04.300 --> 00:18:06.800 Not a particularly comfortable position for me to be in 275 00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:10.520 where I'm forced to express an opinion about a subject 276 00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:11.580 I don't know very much about. 277 00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.860 But I guess journalists get put in that position 278 00:18:13.860 --> 00:18:15.840 rather too often these days. 279 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:16.640 I will say this. 280 00:18:16.820 --> 00:18:21.060 I don't think that we have a crisis of civility in this country, 281 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:22.440 or at least I don't think it's a problem 282 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:26.500 in so much as it's perhaps a symptom of an underlying malaise. 283 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.400 I think there's a crisis of rigour in this country. 284 00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:30.960 There is a lack of curiosity. 285 00:18:31.460 --> 00:18:33.060 Of self-criticism. 286 00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:35.780 Of real commitment to finding anything out. 287 00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:38.860 Because there's an underlying concern that if we went too deep, 288 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:41.460 we might find something that doesn't suit us. 289 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:43.500 We're in the grip... 290 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.920 We have a political and a media elite 291 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.720 that are in the grip of confirmation bias 292 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.880 and hang together, I think, 293 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:53.320 because they have a fear about their ideas 294 00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:59.180 and that we express ourselves with additional and extra vehemence 295 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:01.060 because we wish to make solid... 296 00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:02.040 mere wind. 297 00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:04.700 To me, genuine thinkers don't... 298 00:19:04.700 --> 00:19:07.500 are loath to speak off the tops of their heads 299 00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:10.400 in the way in which our politicians are often called to 300 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.880 and our columnists are often demanded to. 301 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.560 They actually like to stop and consider 302 00:19:16.520 --> 00:19:17.900 alternative points of view, 303 00:19:18.020 --> 00:19:19.140 counter-arguments, 304 00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:24.040 and things that might interfere with the substance of their logic. 305 00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:26.640 And as a result, I think we've got a public sphere now 306 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.160 that's just constantly swimming in the shallows. 307 00:19:32.140 --> 00:19:33.160 800 words, 308 00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:35.740 which is the standard length of an op-ed column these days, 309 00:19:35.780 --> 00:19:38.520 is an excellent length for a bilious fit, 310 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:40.640 but really for nothing else. 311 00:19:40.820 --> 00:19:42.940 And it kind of absolves you of any responsibility 312 00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:44.860 to present a counter-argument. 313 00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:47.100 And 140 characters, I think, 314 00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:50.760 is barely enough for a moe or an aperçu. 315 00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:53.840 And I think that... 316 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:55.660 The other thing is... 317 00:19:56.760 --> 00:19:58.900 A weakness of our intellectual life 318 00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:00.280 is that we actually... 319 00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:01.440 The sources on which we're talking about... 320 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.400 The sources on which other countries rely 321 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.180 for their intellectual life, to me, 322 00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:05.320 are underrepresented here. 323 00:20:06.340 --> 00:20:08.140 Distinguished thinkers in this country are rare. 324 00:20:08.560 --> 00:20:10.860 We have think tanks that are like paddle pools. 325 00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:14.660 We have academics and media elites 326 00:20:14.660 --> 00:20:15.900 who talk amongst themselves 327 00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:17.820 and really only amongst the like-minded. 328 00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:19.440 The only iron law of public debate 329 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.980 is that the opposite side is always getting a better run 330 00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:22.700 than you are. 331 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.540 And a problem, of course, of intemperate language 332 00:20:26.540 --> 00:20:29.360 is that it invites a response in kind. 333 00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:31.020 Or, 334 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:35.040 if you don't respond in exactly the same coin, 335 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:37.000 it looks as though you're responding 336 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:38.540 without confidence and conviction. 337 00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:40.540 And these days, we tend to assess 338 00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:43.760 the merit of arguments on the basis of the confidence, 339 00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:46.780 the adamantine conviction in which they're presented, 340 00:20:46.940 --> 00:20:49.820 rather than actually looking at their underlying logic. 341 00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:50.780 I... 342 00:20:50.780 --> 00:20:53.000 99% of the time in Australia, 343 00:20:53.180 --> 00:20:54.300 if you're in an op-ed columnist, 344 00:20:54.300 --> 00:20:55.960 you know exactly what they are going to say 345 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:57.320 on every conceivable issue. 346 00:20:57.520 --> 00:20:59.900 Right and left almost has no significance at all. 347 00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:01.420 It's mere name-calling. 348 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:02.180 These days. 349 00:21:02.300 --> 00:21:03.720 And I just have no interest at all 350 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:06.120 in the way in which politics is practised and reported in Australia. 351 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:09.860 It's pandering to interests for electoral advantage 352 00:21:09.860 --> 00:21:12.140 and it's reported in terms of whether something is 353 00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:14.620 politically smart or politically dumb. 354 00:21:15.220 --> 00:21:16.500 Journalists often talk about 355 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:19.780 they would much prefer to discuss policies 356 00:21:19.780 --> 00:21:20.800 rather than personalities, 357 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:22.720 but they're disingenuous about it 358 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.320 because, frankly, they wouldn't know a policy 359 00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:25.580 if it clubbed them over the head. 360 00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:29.300 We're an intensely glass-jeweled nation 361 00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:31.360 and our idea of debate these days, 362 00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:32.220 is Q&A, 363 00:21:32.260 --> 00:21:34.860 which may be the stupidest show on Australian television. 364 00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:38.380 It is an absolutely lamentable state that we're in. 365 00:21:38.760 --> 00:21:40.140 Sorry to sound so negative. 366 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.460 Perhaps I can cheer up a little bit later on. 367 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:46.600 I think a round of applause for Gideon, don't you? 368 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:49.480 Peter. 369 00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:51.880 Newspaper man that you are. 370 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:53.760 Yeah, well, a media tart, maybe. 371 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:54.400 Journalist. 372 00:21:54.520 --> 00:21:55.440 I'm not in newspapers. 373 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:56.600 Who talks about newspapers anymore? 374 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.440 I'm going to go out back and club myself to death 375 00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:01.160 to keep Gideon happy, 376 00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:01.340 but I'm going to go out back and club myself to death 377 00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:01.820 to keep Gideon happy. 378 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.340 But about eight months ago, I conceived... 379 00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:06.900 I had this idea. 380 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.400 I was thinking about vaginas. 381 00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:13.700 And that got me to the vagina monologues. 382 00:22:13.760 --> 00:22:15.960 And I imagine many people in the room 383 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.920 have seen the vagina monologues. 384 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.360 Great show. 385 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:20.520 And that led me... 386 00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:22.760 And I'm not entirely sure what was going on in my mind, 387 00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:23.880 but it led me to Hansard. 388 00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:24.540 Another way, actually. 389 00:22:24.700 --> 00:22:25.980 It led me to Hansard. 390 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.720 And I conceived and produced the play 391 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.340 that was on... 392 00:22:31.340 --> 00:22:32.540 in Canberra, in Sydney, 393 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:33.560 in Western Sydney, in Wollongong, 394 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:35.300 called The Hansard Monologues. 395 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.140 And that is a verbatim play 396 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:39.560 of the 43rd Parliament, 397 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.320 the Parliament that has just gone 398 00:22:41.320 --> 00:22:44.500 and the Parliament that Annabelle so aptly summarised. 399 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:46.740 And I just wanted to read 400 00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:48.720 some quotes that were in the play. 401 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:50.240 And everything that was in the play 402 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.440 came from Hansard, right? 403 00:22:52.840 --> 00:22:54.160 So this is from Hansard. 404 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.020 And I pose this as a question, really, 405 00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:59.620 because is this the action of a civil society? 406 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.140 And then I'm going to go back to the media. 407 00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:02.400 But here are the quotes. 408 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:04.300 Go cut your wrists, 409 00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:05.540 or better still, hang yourself. 410 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.520 Go out the back, cut your throat. 411 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:09.780 That's the only way. 412 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.520 Have you slashed your wrists yet? 413 00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:14.860 You are dead. 414 00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:16.740 A bullet between the eyes 415 00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:18.480 will save taxpayers money. 416 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.980 Anyone have any idea who said that in Hansard? 417 00:23:21.340 --> 00:23:22.680 I know you do. 418 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:24.240 Any idea? 419 00:23:24.740 --> 00:23:26.260 That is Craig Thompson. 420 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:28.460 And that is Craig Thompson 421 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.000 talking about the emails 422 00:23:31.340 --> 00:23:32.480 and letters and phone calls 423 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.760 that his office got from Australian voters 424 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:40.020 in the midst of the ongoing scandal. 425 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:41.740 So that's... 426 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:43.840 And I, even though, you know, 427 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:46.700 I believe in a robust debate, 428 00:23:47.540 --> 00:23:48.820 a provocative debate, 429 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.620 I must say when I read those quotes, 430 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.260 I was shocked and I was somewhat ashamed. 431 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:56.520 But Craig Thompson, 432 00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:58.240 just to warm to the theme of the media, 433 00:23:58.340 --> 00:24:00.040 Craig Thompson blamed the media 434 00:24:00.040 --> 00:24:00.760 for... 435 00:24:01.340 --> 00:24:02.560 for that outrage. 436 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.420 And I was the editor of the... 437 00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:07.300 of the Sydney Morning Herald 438 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:08.180 when we, you know, 439 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:10.460 we first wrote about Craig Thompson's 440 00:24:11.100 --> 00:24:12.720 love of credit cards. 441 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:14.920 And... 442 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.120 And I don't accept any blame. 443 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:20.260 And I'll tell you why. 444 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:21.700 Because it is the media's job 445 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:22.940 to hold the powerful to account. 446 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:23.600 And... 447 00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:24.800 But I would say, 448 00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:27.140 and I'm interested in questions on this, 449 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:28.160 is that the media 450 00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.660 certainly has a responsibility 451 00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:30.440 to... 452 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:31.320 to... 453 00:24:31.320 --> 00:24:31.920 to know the difference 454 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.640 between robust... 455 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:34.960 being robust and being provocative 456 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:36.920 and being irresponsible 457 00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:38.560 and inflammatory. 458 00:24:38.780 --> 00:24:39.740 I don't think the reporting 459 00:24:39.740 --> 00:24:41.740 of Craig Thompson's 460 00:24:42.260 --> 00:24:43.720 love of credit cards 461 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:44.280 and prostitution 462 00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:44.940 and what have you 463 00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:46.380 was irresponsible journalism. 464 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:47.160 Maybe that's why you were thinking 465 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:48.020 about vaginas. 466 00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:49.020 No, no, I wasn't thinking 467 00:24:49.020 --> 00:24:49.780 of vaginas for that reason. 468 00:24:49.780 --> 00:24:50.640 It's an interesting home life. 469 00:24:50.780 --> 00:24:51.040 Yeah. 470 00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:51.540 Yeah. 471 00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:54.320 But... 472 00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:55.660 But I think it's fair to say 473 00:24:55.660 --> 00:24:56.840 we do live in an age 474 00:24:56.840 --> 00:24:58.040 of a very agitated 475 00:24:58.040 --> 00:25:00.320 and a very fiscally challenged 476 00:25:00.860 --> 00:25:01.300 and very agitated 477 00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:01.600 media. 478 00:25:01.780 --> 00:25:02.780 And we've sort of touched on that 479 00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:03.620 already on the panel. 480 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:05.680 And therein lies a... 481 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.720 I think there's a tendency 482 00:25:07.280 --> 00:25:08.340 for the media 483 00:25:08.340 --> 00:25:10.500 to potentially overstate, 484 00:25:10.620 --> 00:25:12.240 to want to say, 485 00:25:12.300 --> 00:25:12.920 look at me, 486 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.280 look at us. 487 00:25:14.380 --> 00:25:15.380 I think you'd say, 488 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:15.800 for instance, 489 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:17.660 that the Sydney Daily Telegraph's 490 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:19.280 headline at the beginning 491 00:25:19.280 --> 00:25:20.800 of the election campaign, 492 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.180 which I have no real problem with, 493 00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:23.900 but, you know, 494 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.360 let's... 495 00:25:24.360 --> 00:25:25.580 Finally we have a chance 496 00:25:25.580 --> 00:25:26.760 to kick this mob out, 497 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.780 was a... 498 00:25:27.780 --> 00:25:28.740 is a function of that. 499 00:25:28.780 --> 00:25:29.460 It's a kind of... 500 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:30.720 There's this anxiety 501 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.300 in the media, 502 00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:33.180 and so I think... 503 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:34.300 Because I don't think 504 00:25:34.300 --> 00:25:35.160 all the answers rest 505 00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:36.140 for the ABC at all. 506 00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:38.100 And I think there is a... 507 00:25:38.100 --> 00:25:39.540 It behoves us all, 508 00:25:39.620 --> 00:25:40.120 in a way, 509 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:41.500 to work out 510 00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:42.580 how we can civilise 511 00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:43.100 this debate. 512 00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:44.260 And I think it also 513 00:25:44.260 --> 00:25:44.980 behoves us all 514 00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:46.220 not to take pleasure 515 00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:47.920 when a, you know, 516 00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.740 a federally... 517 00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:49.500 a federal MP, 518 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.680 tainted as he may well have been, 519 00:25:51.780 --> 00:25:52.140 Craig Thompson, 520 00:25:52.580 --> 00:25:53.960 stands up and says, 521 00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:54.580 you know, 522 00:25:54.580 --> 00:25:55.020 with quotes, 523 00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:55.760 what people have been 524 00:25:55.760 --> 00:25:56.260 saying to him, 525 00:25:56.380 --> 00:25:57.260 go out the back, 526 00:25:57.380 --> 00:25:57.880 cut your throat. 527 00:25:58.580 --> 00:25:59.400 That's the only way. 528 00:26:00.620 --> 00:26:01.020 OK. 529 00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:02.360 Perhaps we'll open 530 00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:03.140 the session now 531 00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:04.500 up for questions. 532 00:26:04.620 --> 00:26:05.600 There's a microphone 533 00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:07.500 positioned at the end 534 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:08.980 of the aisle here. 535 00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:09.420 Or, 536 00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:10.140 if you've got 537 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:10.940 a booming voice, 538 00:26:11.060 --> 00:26:11.720 you can, of course, 539 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:12.540 just shout out 540 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:13.240 your question. 541 00:26:14.660 --> 00:26:15.900 If someone puts 542 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:16.620 their hand up immediately, 543 00:26:16.800 --> 00:26:17.300 that's great. 544 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:17.740 If not, 545 00:26:17.800 --> 00:26:18.820 I've got a bit of a question 546 00:26:18.820 --> 00:26:19.780 that I'll just put to you. 547 00:26:20.300 --> 00:26:21.500 Back to that headline 548 00:26:21.500 --> 00:26:22.760 in the Telegraph 549 00:26:22.760 --> 00:26:23.380 at the start 550 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:24.300 of the campaign, 551 00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:25.740 kick this mob out. 552 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:26.780 To me, 553 00:26:26.860 --> 00:26:28.440 I was horrified 554 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:29.340 when I saw that 555 00:26:29.340 --> 00:26:30.800 because it contradicted 556 00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:31.300 what I thought 557 00:26:31.300 --> 00:26:32.020 I think the media 558 00:26:32.020 --> 00:26:32.660 should do. 559 00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:33.780 And I think that 560 00:26:33.780 --> 00:26:34.640 the media should 561 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:35.460 inform 562 00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:37.240 and not dictate 563 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:37.700 opinion. 564 00:26:38.300 --> 00:26:39.080 And that, 565 00:26:39.100 --> 00:26:39.560 to me, 566 00:26:39.560 --> 00:26:41.680 was concerning, 567 00:26:42.040 --> 00:26:42.580 that headline, 568 00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:43.660 and that trend 569 00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:44.300 in the media. 570 00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:44.920 Do you think 571 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.240 that that's what 572 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:46.660 they're doing 573 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:47.640 so much more now? 574 00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:49.400 Because they're dictating. 575 00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:50.460 They're not just 576 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:50.980 reporting. 577 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:51.960 They're actually, 578 00:26:52.600 --> 00:26:53.100 this is what 579 00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:53.800 you have to think. 580 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:55.440 Can I answer that? 581 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:56.340 I think that 582 00:26:56.340 --> 00:26:57.940 in politics 583 00:26:57.940 --> 00:26:58.900 and in media, 584 00:27:00.320 --> 00:27:01.280 the removal 585 00:27:01.300 --> 00:27:02.560 of the structures 586 00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:04.120 around the news day 587 00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:06.060 that we all worked inside 588 00:27:06.060 --> 00:27:07.860 10 to 15 years ago 589 00:27:07.860 --> 00:27:10.100 has been absolutely, 590 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:11.860 it's been, 591 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:12.980 it's created something 592 00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:14.280 like an industrial revolution 593 00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:16.040 within the media 594 00:27:16.040 --> 00:27:17.200 and within politics. 595 00:27:17.740 --> 00:27:18.220 So, 596 00:27:18.260 --> 00:27:19.320 rather than having 597 00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:20.320 one deadline a day, 598 00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:20.660 you know, 599 00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:21.340 you have dozens. 600 00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:23.180 And it used to be 601 00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:23.900 as a journalist, 602 00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:24.800 if you wanted to get 603 00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:25.660 on the front page, 604 00:27:25.800 --> 00:27:26.120 you know, 605 00:27:26.120 --> 00:27:26.820 of the paper 606 00:27:26.820 --> 00:27:28.100 as all, you know, 607 00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:29.280 enthusiastic journalists 608 00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:29.840 want to do, 609 00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:30.660 you want to get 610 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:31.680 fine, great stories 611 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.140 and you're in competition 612 00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:34.200 with those other stories 613 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.280 to, you know, 614 00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:36.260 get a good run 615 00:27:36.260 --> 00:27:38.120 and communicate 616 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:39.720 whatever it is 617 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:40.540 that you've found out. 618 00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:42.040 Well, that competition 619 00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:42.760 now happens 620 00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:44.020 every minute 621 00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:44.780 of the day. 622 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:45.760 And 623 00:27:47.420 --> 00:27:48.940 the speeding up 624 00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:49.600 of that day 625 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:51.140 doesn't make 626 00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:51.940 any easier 627 00:27:51.940 --> 00:27:53.120 the stuff that you 628 00:27:53.120 --> 00:27:53.940 really have to do 629 00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:54.740 to get together 630 00:27:54.740 --> 00:27:56.080 a story that is good 631 00:27:56.080 --> 00:27:57.140 and true 632 00:27:57.140 --> 00:27:58.460 and not exaggerated, 633 00:27:58.560 --> 00:27:59.500 which is put 634 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:00.320 lots of time 635 00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:00.980 into it. 636 00:28:01.060 --> 00:28:01.260 So, 637 00:28:01.320 --> 00:28:02.420 it's horrifying, 638 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:04.140 but the occasions 639 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:04.760 for competition 640 00:28:04.760 --> 00:28:06.860 are so much more regular 641 00:28:06.860 --> 00:28:08.660 and the time you have 642 00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:09.920 to put into preparing 643 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:10.880 those reports 644 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:11.800 is shrinking 645 00:28:11.800 --> 00:28:12.500 extraordinarily. 646 00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:13.140 And that's why 647 00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:13.940 we often see 648 00:28:13.940 --> 00:28:14.840 things reported 649 00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:16.660 from people's Facebook pages. 650 00:28:16.860 --> 00:28:17.340 Right, right, sure. 651 00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:18.500 in the middle of a story. 652 00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:19.820 But also because 653 00:28:19.820 --> 00:28:21.320 those stories, 654 00:28:21.580 --> 00:28:22.340 those sort of 655 00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:23.580 retro-engineered stories 656 00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:24.220 worked back 657 00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:24.880 from the headlines 658 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.020 are a way 659 00:28:26.020 --> 00:28:26.540 to establish 660 00:28:26.540 --> 00:28:27.440 some sort of control 661 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:28.740 over the news cycle 662 00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:29.400 because you know 663 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.240 what you're going to get. 664 00:28:30.320 --> 00:28:31.320 Go out and get me 665 00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:31.840 this story. 666 00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:32.400 I've already got 667 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:32.760 the headline, 668 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:33.540 I've got the illustration, 669 00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:34.460 I've got the cartoon. 670 00:28:34.620 --> 00:28:35.800 Go out and get me 671 00:28:35.800 --> 00:28:36.880 the quotes to support it. 672 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:37.520 That's the attitude 673 00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:38.600 that provides a lot of news. 674 00:28:38.660 --> 00:28:39.620 What's new about that? 675 00:28:39.700 --> 00:28:40.380 Well, it's true. 676 00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:42.080 That's as old as newspapers. 677 00:28:42.280 --> 00:28:42.720 That's the old 678 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.580 Desmond Hackett line, 679 00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:43.880 isn't it? 680 00:28:44.340 --> 00:28:45.260 Get the story 681 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:46.920 and draw the facts towards it. 682 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:47.180 Well, 683 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:48.900 but it goes 684 00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:50.820 back beyond Packer. 685 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:53.840 And politically 686 00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:55.260 campaigning newspapers 687 00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:56.760 is one of the things 688 00:28:56.760 --> 00:28:57.420 that newspapers 689 00:28:57.420 --> 00:28:58.620 have always done 690 00:28:58.620 --> 00:28:59.860 and in my view 691 00:28:59.860 --> 00:29:00.300 are free 692 00:29:00.320 --> 00:29:00.720 to do. 693 00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:02.720 They take their reputations 694 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.500 in their hands 695 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:04.420 by doing so 696 00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:05.680 but they're free 697 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:06.360 to do it 698 00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:07.280 and have always 699 00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:08.240 and there have always 700 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:08.680 been 701 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:09.840 newspapers 702 00:29:09.840 --> 00:29:11.060 later on 703 00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:12.540 radio stations 704 00:29:12.540 --> 00:29:13.260 later on 705 00:29:13.260 --> 00:29:14.120 television stations 706 00:29:14.120 --> 00:29:15.340 which have 707 00:29:15.340 --> 00:29:16.120 put their 708 00:29:16.120 --> 00:29:17.240 put all 709 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:18.140 of their 710 00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:19.260 all of their 711 00:29:20.580 --> 00:29:21.280 trustfulness 712 00:29:21.280 --> 00:29:22.480 all of their 713 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.200 relationship 714 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.220 with their readers 715 00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:24.460 listeners 716 00:29:24.460 --> 00:29:24.880 viewers 717 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.040 on the line 718 00:29:26.040 --> 00:29:27.760 in order to campaign 719 00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:28.440 politically. 720 00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:29.140 But this is not 721 00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:29.800 the same thing. 722 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:30.300 This is not 723 00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:30.600 this is a kind 724 00:29:30.600 --> 00:29:31.180 of a parody 725 00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:32.100 of that behaviour. 726 00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:32.820 I don't think so. 727 00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:34.280 I think as Animal 728 00:29:34.280 --> 00:29:35.300 saying it arises 729 00:29:35.300 --> 00:29:36.660 because it is 730 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:37.700 an industrial process 731 00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:38.340 now. 732 00:29:38.560 --> 00:29:39.840 Have a look at the 733 00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:40.340 yellow press 734 00:29:40.340 --> 00:29:41.580 of the late 19th century. 735 00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:42.000 Exactly. 736 00:29:42.120 --> 00:29:43.140 It was vicious 737 00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:45.040 compared to that headline 738 00:29:45.040 --> 00:29:46.120 on the Daily Telegraph. 739 00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:46.380 I mean, 740 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.880 I'm not saying 741 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.500 I like it. 742 00:29:48.360 --> 00:29:49.240 I don't 743 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:51.120 but that's 744 00:29:51.120 --> 00:29:51.840 You'll defend 745 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:54.060 their right to do it 746 00:29:54.060 --> 00:29:55.160 and I agree with you. 747 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:56.240 And I also think 748 00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:57.200 the conversation 749 00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:58.700 so Cole Allen 750 00:29:58.700 --> 00:29:59.160 came over 751 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:00.140 from New York 752 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:01.060 was installed 753 00:30:01.060 --> 00:30:02.260 in the news 754 00:30:02.260 --> 00:30:02.620 and the offices 755 00:30:02.620 --> 00:30:03.140 in Sydney 756 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:04.380 and it was widely 757 00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:05.520 thought that he was 758 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:05.900 on a mission 759 00:30:05.900 --> 00:30:06.620 to get rid of 760 00:30:06.620 --> 00:30:07.280 Rudd. 761 00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:08.240 And I'm not saying 762 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:08.740 he wasn't 763 00:30:08.740 --> 00:30:09.280 but I think 764 00:30:09.280 --> 00:30:09.880 what he was really 765 00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:10.340 on a mission 766 00:30:10.340 --> 00:30:11.580 was to tell 767 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:12.880 tabloid editors 768 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:13.800 in Sydney 769 00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:14.240 and Melbourne 770 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:14.960 and not so much 771 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:15.420 in Adelaide. 772 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:16.500 Maybe he missed 773 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:17.200 the plane or something 774 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.500 but 775 00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.120 He was here. 776 00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:19.720 Sorry, 777 00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:20.440 I apologise. 778 00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:22.260 He was here, 779 00:30:22.360 --> 00:30:22.460 right? 780 00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:22.920 But I think 781 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:23.420 his mission 782 00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:24.300 was to those 783 00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:24.980 news and it was 784 00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:26.140 get noticed 785 00:30:26.780 --> 00:30:28.440 and get talked about 786 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:29.840 and that 787 00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:30.000 headline, 788 00:30:30.300 --> 00:30:30.900 here we are now, 789 00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:31.420 three, 790 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:32.340 four months later 791 00:30:32.340 --> 00:30:32.960 we're still 792 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:33.640 talking about it. 793 00:30:34.520 --> 00:30:34.960 Gideon, 794 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:36.020 you touched on something. 795 00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:36.500 We do have some 796 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:37.280 questions from the audience. 797 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:38.120 I'll just ask one more 798 00:30:38.120 --> 00:30:38.460 here though. 799 00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:39.180 Gideon, 800 00:30:39.220 --> 00:30:40.380 you touched on this 801 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:41.180 that people don't 802 00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:42.020 read lengthy 803 00:30:42.020 --> 00:30:42.960 documents anymore. 804 00:30:43.280 --> 00:30:43.920 Are we living 805 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:44.400 in a world 806 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:44.820 where we've got 807 00:30:44.820 --> 00:30:45.520 so much more 808 00:30:45.520 --> 00:30:46.440 information from 809 00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:47.140 all sorts of 810 00:30:47.140 --> 00:30:47.900 sources but yet 811 00:30:47.900 --> 00:30:49.800 we're less informed? 812 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:50.840 Well, 813 00:30:50.840 --> 00:30:51.680 we're capable of 814 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:52.880 it's much easier 815 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:53.580 to cherry pick 816 00:30:53.580 --> 00:30:54.500 those sources 817 00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:56.120 that we know 818 00:30:56.120 --> 00:30:56.880 are guaranteed 819 00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.680 to please us. 820 00:30:57.840 --> 00:30:58.800 It's much easier 821 00:30:58.800 --> 00:30:59.640 for us to go out 822 00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:00.560 and find the facts 823 00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:01.060 that support 824 00:31:01.060 --> 00:31:02.220 a pre-existing 825 00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:03.320 point of view. 826 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:04.980 The internet 827 00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:06.480 is an absolute 828 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.740 joy if you're 829 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.140 looking to 830 00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:10.140 support a 831 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:10.780 particular argument. 832 00:31:10.840 --> 00:31:11.220 It makes 833 00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:11.980 available facts 834 00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:12.880 that seems to 835 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:13.400 have this 836 00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:14.660 incredible 837 00:31:14.660 --> 00:31:15.460 solidity. 838 00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:16.500 It enables us 839 00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:16.860 to go out 840 00:31:16.860 --> 00:31:17.480 and find opinion 841 00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:18.800 that coheres 842 00:31:18.800 --> 00:31:19.320 with ours. 843 00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:21.380 This is a 844 00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:21.800 phenomenon 845 00:31:21.800 --> 00:31:22.560 that's been 846 00:31:22.560 --> 00:31:23.140 remarked upon 847 00:31:23.140 --> 00:31:23.880 before that 848 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.520 the internet 849 00:31:24.520 --> 00:31:25.060 may actually 850 00:31:25.060 --> 00:31:26.180 conduce to us 851 00:31:26.180 --> 00:31:27.420 cocooning 852 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:27.940 to 853 00:31:28.060 --> 00:31:28.700 ! 854 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.020 Only visiting 855 00:31:31.020 --> 00:31:31.960 those particular 856 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:32.760 news sources 857 00:31:32.760 --> 00:31:34.160 that suit our 858 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:34.560 perspectives 859 00:31:34.560 --> 00:31:36.220 and actually 860 00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:37.280 solidify us 861 00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:37.760 in our 862 00:31:37.760 --> 00:31:38.680 pre-existing 863 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:39.560 points of view. 864 00:31:40.560 --> 00:31:40.980 But the human 865 00:31:41.620 --> 00:31:42.320 attention span 866 00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:43.420 has not 867 00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:44.000 altered 868 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:44.960 and 869 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:46.200 newspapers 870 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:47.360 are unable 871 00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:47.880 now 872 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.180 to produce 873 00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:50.480 to carry 874 00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.260 pieces of 875 00:31:52.260 --> 00:31:53.300 big journalism 876 00:31:53.300 --> 00:31:55.500 you know 877 00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.920 the 5,000 878 00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:57.520 worders 879 00:31:57.520 --> 00:31:57.920 and the 880 00:31:57.920 --> 00:31:59.060 even more 881 00:31:59.060 --> 00:31:59.880 at times 882 00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:00.680 because there 883 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:01.040 isn't the 884 00:32:01.040 --> 00:32:01.500 advertising 885 00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.180 to pay for 886 00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:02.620 the paper. 887 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:03.860 We know 888 00:32:03.860 --> 00:32:04.320 that the 889 00:32:04.320 --> 00:32:04.860 human attention 890 00:32:04.860 --> 00:32:05.320 span 891 00:32:05.320 --> 00:32:05.920 hasn't 892 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.440 shortened. 893 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:07.420 Look at 894 00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:08.020 children 895 00:32:08.020 --> 00:32:08.640 reading 896 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:09.800 Harry Potter 897 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:10.140 books. 898 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:11.120 They're that 899 00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:11.760 thick. 900 00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:13.040 They're enormous 901 00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:14.060 and films 902 00:32:14.060 --> 00:32:14.820 get longer 903 00:32:14.820 --> 00:32:16.000 and longer. 904 00:32:16.320 --> 00:32:17.180 That's not 905 00:32:17.180 --> 00:32:17.820 the problem. 906 00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:19.100 The problem 907 00:32:19.100 --> 00:32:20.100 is in 908 00:32:20.100 --> 00:32:20.560 newspapers 909 00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:21.920 having some 910 00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:22.700 way in which 911 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:23.240 to pay for 912 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:23.700 the paper 913 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:25.000 and on 914 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:25.720 the internet 915 00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:27.000 having some 916 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:27.540 way to 917 00:32:27.540 --> 00:32:28.140 devise a 918 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:28.660 format 919 00:32:28.660 --> 00:32:29.620 which makes 920 00:32:29.620 --> 00:32:30.520 reading long 921 00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:31.320 form journalism 922 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:32.260 more 923 00:32:32.260 --> 00:32:33.660 enjoyable 924 00:32:34.540 --> 00:32:35.300 for 925 00:32:35.300 --> 00:32:36.980 old farts 926 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:38.080 who aren't 927 00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:38.620 used to 928 00:32:38.620 --> 00:32:39.160 the internet. 929 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:39.720 But for 930 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.200 kids 931 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.120 and for 932 00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:41.700 people who 933 00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:42.360 have transferred 934 00:32:42.360 --> 00:32:43.020 to Kindle 935 00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:43.600 you can read 936 00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:44.200 a document 937 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:44.980 of any length 938 00:32:44.980 --> 00:32:45.400 on the 939 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:45.740 internet. 940 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.640 The human 941 00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:47.600 attention span 942 00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:48.360 hasn't 943 00:32:48.360 --> 00:32:48.920 changed. 944 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:50.300 Length 945 00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:51.360 isn't 946 00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:52.680 always a 947 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:53.040 kind of 948 00:32:53.040 --> 00:32:53.660 corroboration 949 00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:54.280 of depth 950 00:32:54.280 --> 00:32:55.860 but I 951 00:32:55.860 --> 00:32:56.760 think David's 952 00:32:57.360 --> 00:32:57.700 right in 953 00:32:57.700 --> 00:32:58.020 the sense 954 00:32:58.020 --> 00:32:58.400 that if 955 00:32:58.400 --> 00:32:58.700 you're 956 00:32:58.700 --> 00:32:59.340 experienced 957 00:32:59.340 --> 00:33:00.140 in writing 958 00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:01.080 at length 959 00:33:01.080 --> 00:33:01.640 and I'm 960 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:02.240 very very 961 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:02.820 long winded 962 00:33:02.820 --> 00:33:03.140 so I 963 00:33:03.140 --> 00:33:03.500 tend to 964 00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:03.740 have to 965 00:33:03.740 --> 00:33:04.100 do that. 966 00:33:05.820 --> 00:33:06.860 Stories do 967 00:33:06.860 --> 00:33:07.500 tend I 968 00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:07.920 think around 969 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:08.700 about 2500 970 00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.040 words to 971 00:33:10.040 --> 00:33:10.800 get exponentially 972 00:33:10.800 --> 00:33:11.540 more interesting 973 00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:12.600 because that's 974 00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:13.200 the point at 975 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:13.600 which you 976 00:33:13.600 --> 00:33:14.000 seem to 977 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:14.700 escape the 978 00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:15.120 gravitational 979 00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:15.860 pull of 980 00:33:15.860 --> 00:33:17.220 cliche and 981 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:18.080 exhaust the 982 00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:18.820 possibilities of 983 00:33:18.820 --> 00:33:19.380 just hewing 984 00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:19.660 to a 985 00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:19.960 predictable 986 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:20.220 line. 987 00:33:20.280 --> 00:33:20.540 That's the 988 00:33:20.540 --> 00:33:20.940 point where 989 00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:21.360 you discover 990 00:33:21.360 --> 00:33:21.780 the facts 991 00:33:21.780 --> 00:33:22.140 that are 992 00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:22.820 inconvenient 993 00:33:22.820 --> 00:33:24.100 that don't 994 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:24.800 fit that 995 00:33:24.800 --> 00:33:25.220 you have to 996 00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:26.420 actually 997 00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:27.840 the counter 998 00:33:27.840 --> 00:33:28.240 arguments 999 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:28.600 that you 1000 00:33:28.600 --> 00:33:29.060 actually have 1001 00:33:29.060 --> 00:33:29.640 to explore 1002 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.020 and unfortunately 1003 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:31.460 that's the 1004 00:33:31.460 --> 00:33:31.800 point at 1005 00:33:31.800 --> 00:33:33.200 which that's 1006 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:33.660 the maximum 1007 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:34.180 number of 1008 00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:34.700 words that 1009 00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:36.020 newspapers now 1010 00:33:36.020 --> 00:33:36.380 print. 1011 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:37.660 2500 words 1012 00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:38.260 is an 1013 00:33:38.260 --> 00:33:38.720 extraordinary 1014 00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:39.620 length for 1015 00:33:39.620 --> 00:33:40.280 a newspaper 1016 00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:40.800 to publish 1017 00:33:40.800 --> 00:33:41.520 now which 1018 00:33:41.520 --> 00:33:41.940 means that 1019 00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:42.280 in a sense 1020 00:33:42.280 --> 00:33:42.640 I think a 1021 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:42.820 lot of 1022 00:33:42.820 --> 00:33:43.140 journalism 1023 00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:43.620 just never 1024 00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:44.140 really gets 1025 00:33:44.140 --> 00:33:44.520 out of 1026 00:33:44.520 --> 00:33:45.080 first gear 1027 00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:45.460 or never 1028 00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:45.980 gets beyond 1029 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:46.340 first principles. 1030 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:46.620 You must be 1031 00:33:46.620 --> 00:33:47.120 thrilled by 1032 00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:47.560 the internet 1033 00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:47.900 then. 1034 00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:49.040 I love 1035 00:33:49.040 --> 00:33:49.200 it. 1036 00:33:49.280 --> 00:33:50.100 I absolutely 1037 00:33:50.100 --> 00:33:50.800 love it. 1038 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:53.120 It has 1039 00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:53.600 enormous 1040 00:33:53.600 --> 00:33:54.100 possibilities 1041 00:33:54.100 --> 00:33:54.660 which I 1042 00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:55.060 don't think 1043 00:33:55.060 --> 00:33:55.560 we've even 1044 00:33:55.560 --> 00:33:56.080 begun to 1045 00:33:56.080 --> 00:33:56.440 explore. 1046 00:33:56.660 --> 00:33:57.700 We have a 1047 00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:58.180 question up 1048 00:33:58.180 --> 00:33:58.260 at the 1049 00:33:58.260 --> 00:33:58.620 back. 1050 00:33:58.680 --> 00:33:59.200 The lady's 1051 00:33:59.200 --> 00:33:59.600 patiently 1052 00:33:59.600 --> 00:34:00.300 standing there. 1053 00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:01.680 I'll try 1054 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:02.020 and have 1055 00:34:02.020 --> 00:34:02.340 a women 1056 00:34:02.340 --> 00:34:02.700 voice. 1057 00:34:02.800 --> 00:34:03.200 You're 1058 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:03.640 still very 1059 00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:04.400 British but 1060 00:34:05.020 --> 00:34:05.800 have we 1061 00:34:05.800 --> 00:34:06.260 actually 1062 00:34:06.260 --> 00:34:06.660 imported 1063 00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:07.280 some of 1064 00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:07.420 this 1065 00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:07.740 negativity 1066 00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:08.380 from the 1067 00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:08.700 US? 1068 00:34:09.040 --> 00:34:09.740 Because the 1069 00:34:09.740 --> 00:34:10.360 time of the 1070 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:10.980 debate there 1071 00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:11.320 when there 1072 00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:11.900 seems to 1073 00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:12.640 be an 1074 00:34:12.640 --> 00:34:13.320 intentional 1075 00:34:14.560 --> 00:34:15.080 bullying 1076 00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:15.680 negativity 1077 00:34:15.680 --> 00:34:16.140 to 1078 00:34:16.140 --> 00:34:16.340 undermine 1079 00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:16.720 the 1080 00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:17.060 government 1081 00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:17.900 seems to 1082 00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:18.020 have 1083 00:34:18.020 --> 00:34:19.020 come in 1084 00:34:19.020 --> 00:34:20.040 here to 1085 00:34:20.040 --> 00:34:20.500 Australia. 1086 00:34:20.700 --> 00:34:20.920 What do 1087 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:21.200 you think 1088 00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:21.380 we've 1089 00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:21.780 grown our 1090 00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:22.040 own? 1091 00:34:22.720 --> 00:34:23.460 Oh no 1092 00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:23.780 we get 1093 00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:24.140 that from 1094 00:34:24.140 --> 00:34:24.760 Britain too. 1095 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:25.720 For heaven's 1096 00:34:25.720 --> 00:34:25.960 sake. 1097 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:27.880 But 1098 00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:29.940 I was 1099 00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:30.820 watching the 1100 00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:31.400 Annabelle 1101 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:31.640 session 1102 00:34:31.640 --> 00:34:32.320 earlier 1103 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:32.720 upstairs 1104 00:34:32.720 --> 00:34:33.920 and talking 1105 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:34.400 about the 1106 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:34.720 economy 1107 00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:35.860 and why 1108 00:34:35.860 --> 00:34:36.460 Australians 1109 00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:37.180 continue to 1110 00:34:37.180 --> 00:34:37.680 moan. 1111 00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:38.880 Although 1112 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:39.640 the Scanlon 1113 00:34:39.640 --> 00:34:40.040 figures are 1114 00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:40.200 very 1115 00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:40.620 interesting. 1116 00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:40.900 There's 1117 00:34:40.900 --> 00:34:41.240 very 1118 00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:41.520 high 1119 00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:42.240 satisfaction 1120 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:42.840 with the 1121 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:43.420 individual 1122 00:34:43.420 --> 00:34:44.340 financial 1123 00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:45.060 situation 1124 00:34:45.060 --> 00:34:45.900 revealed in 1125 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:46.360 the Scanlon 1126 00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:46.620 figures. 1127 00:34:46.740 --> 00:34:47.860 But one 1128 00:34:47.860 --> 00:34:48.080 of the 1129 00:34:48.080 --> 00:34:48.800 reasons why 1130 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:49.360 Australians 1131 00:34:50.100 --> 00:34:51.020 moan about 1132 00:34:51.020 --> 00:34:51.220 the 1133 00:34:51.220 --> 00:34:51.500 economy 1134 00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:52.160 and moan 1135 00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:52.580 about the 1136 00:34:52.580 --> 00:34:52.940 state of 1137 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:53.280 Australia 1138 00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:54.460 is that 1139 00:34:54.460 --> 00:34:54.800 they have 1140 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:56.520 been taught 1141 00:34:56.520 --> 00:34:56.920 to 1142 00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:57.400 be 1143 00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:57.640 they have 1144 00:34:57.640 --> 00:34:57.800 been 1145 00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:58.140 persuaded 1146 00:34:58.140 --> 00:34:58.840 to be 1147 00:34:58.840 --> 00:34:59.580 contemptuous 1148 00:34:59.580 --> 00:35:00.100 of it 1149 00:35:00.100 --> 00:35:01.420 by an 1150 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:02.380 astonishingly 1151 00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:02.720 skilled 1152 00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:03.620 opposition 1153 00:35:03.620 --> 00:35:04.280 which is 1154 00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:04.640 now the 1155 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:04.920 government. 1156 00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:05.800 And the 1157 00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:06.480 business of 1158 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.880 dragging us 1159 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:08.580 down into 1160 00:35:08.580 --> 00:35:09.740 gloom is 1161 00:35:09.740 --> 00:35:10.620 a professional 1162 00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:11.780 function of 1163 00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:12.280 politics. 1164 00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:13.660 And a 1165 00:35:13.660 --> 00:35:14.040 competent 1166 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:14.540 government 1167 00:35:14.540 --> 00:35:15.520 has ways 1168 00:35:15.520 --> 00:35:16.140 of answering 1169 00:35:16.140 --> 00:35:16.500 that. 1170 00:35:16.700 --> 00:35:17.440 And the 1171 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:17.760 government 1172 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:18.240 that just 1173 00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:18.780 lost that 1174 00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:19.100 election 1175 00:35:19.100 --> 00:35:20.360 could not 1176 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:21.720 answer the 1177 00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:22.500 rubbish being 1178 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:23.160 thrown at 1179 00:35:23.160 --> 00:35:23.760 it about the 1180 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.120 economic 1181 00:35:24.120 --> 00:35:24.860 performance of 1182 00:35:24.860 --> 00:35:25.320 the country. 1183 00:35:25.520 --> 00:35:26.260 That was 1184 00:35:26.260 --> 00:35:26.960 Labour's 1185 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:27.420 fault. 1186 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:28.440 The coalition 1187 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.180 was doing 1188 00:35:29.180 --> 00:35:30.120 its job. 1189 00:35:30.180 --> 00:35:30.840 But the 1190 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:32.040 job is to 1191 00:35:32.040 --> 00:35:32.440 make us 1192 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:32.940 gloomy 1193 00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:33.680 even in 1194 00:35:33.680 --> 00:35:33.940 the good 1195 00:35:33.940 --> 00:35:34.500 times. 1196 00:35:34.820 --> 00:35:35.500 And that's 1197 00:35:35.500 --> 00:35:36.140 not American. 1198 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:36.880 It's not 1199 00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:37.260 British. 1200 00:35:37.900 --> 00:35:38.600 That's a 1201 00:35:38.600 --> 00:35:39.400 function of 1202 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:39.860 politics. 1203 00:35:40.200 --> 00:35:41.380 And we've 1204 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:41.900 just lived 1205 00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:42.560 through that. 1206 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:43.440 And that's 1207 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:43.740 one of the 1208 00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:44.340 reasons why 1209 00:35:44.340 --> 00:35:45.400 only 27% 1210 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:45.880 of us 1211 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:46.520 have any 1212 00:35:46.520 --> 00:35:47.100 trust in 1213 00:35:47.100 --> 00:35:47.440 government 1214 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:47.960 doing the 1215 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:48.460 right thing 1216 00:35:48.460 --> 00:35:48.840 by us 1217 00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:49.220 most of 1218 00:35:49.220 --> 00:35:49.560 the time. 1219 00:35:49.660 --> 00:35:49.960 Peter? 1220 00:35:50.020 --> 00:35:50.580 Well, I 1221 00:35:50.580 --> 00:35:52.020 would offer 1222 00:35:52.020 --> 00:35:52.600 two words 1223 00:35:52.600 --> 00:35:53.460 for you. 1224 00:35:53.780 --> 00:35:54.380 Clive 1225 00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:54.700 Palmer. 1226 00:35:57.460 --> 00:35:58.520 They come 1227 00:35:58.520 --> 00:35:58.860 together 1228 00:35:58.860 --> 00:35:59.340 necessarily. 1229 00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:01.060 That's 1230 00:36:01.060 --> 00:36:01.220 true. 1231 00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:02.240 I apologise 1232 00:36:02.240 --> 00:36:02.720 to all 1233 00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:03.460 Clives and 1234 00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:03.660 all 1235 00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:04.980 Palmers. 1236 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:06.960 But my 1237 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.420 point being 1238 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:07.920 is that 1239 00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:09.680 one of the 1240 00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:10.220 phenomena of 1241 00:36:10.220 --> 00:36:11.360 US politics 1242 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:11.740 as we've 1243 00:36:11.740 --> 00:36:12.600 seen over 1244 00:36:12.600 --> 00:36:13.280 recent weeks 1245 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:14.040 is the 1246 00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:14.700 capacity of 1247 00:36:14.700 --> 00:36:15.320 very wealthy 1248 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:15.980 people to 1249 00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:16.400 buy influence. 1250 00:36:17.300 --> 00:36:18.700 And I do 1251 00:36:18.700 --> 00:36:19.240 think we 1252 00:36:19.240 --> 00:36:20.360 are potentially 1253 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:21.400 seeing, you 1254 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:21.800 know, Clive 1255 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:22.280 has bought, 1256 00:36:23.080 --> 00:36:23.340 you know, 1257 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:23.900 he's elected, 1258 00:36:24.120 --> 00:36:24.320 he's 1259 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:25.200 spent a lot 1260 00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:25.540 of money, 1261 00:36:25.580 --> 00:36:25.920 put it that 1262 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:26.360 way, getting 1263 00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:26.880 a few people 1264 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.340 elected in 1265 00:36:27.340 --> 00:36:27.740 the Senate. 1266 00:36:27.940 --> 00:36:28.760 And as it 1267 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:29.320 turns out, 1268 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:29.620 they're going 1269 00:36:29.620 --> 00:36:29.920 to have a 1270 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:30.240 lot of 1271 00:36:30.240 --> 00:36:30.540 influence. 1272 00:36:32.140 --> 00:36:33.020 I lived 1273 00:36:33.020 --> 00:36:33.240 in the 1274 00:36:33.240 --> 00:36:34.060 UK a 1275 00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:35.080 few years 1276 00:36:35.080 --> 00:36:35.680 back and 1277 00:36:35.680 --> 00:36:36.860 I was 1278 00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:37.080 there for 1279 00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:37.580 the 2005 1280 00:36:37.580 --> 00:36:38.740 election and 1281 00:36:39.180 --> 00:36:39.940 also for 1282 00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:40.440 the change 1283 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:41.280 in leadership 1284 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.120 of the 1285 00:36:42.120 --> 00:36:42.700 Liberal 1286 00:36:42.700 --> 00:36:43.160 Democrats, 1287 00:36:43.340 --> 00:36:43.520 which is 1288 00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:44.020 the balance 1289 00:36:44.020 --> 00:36:44.500 of power, 1290 00:36:44.580 --> 00:36:45.300 part of 1291 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.340 the 1292 00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:45.660 coalition 1293 00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:46.060 government 1294 00:36:46.060 --> 00:36:46.680 now in 1295 00:36:46.680 --> 00:36:47.020 the UK. 1296 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:47.960 And they 1297 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:48.220 had a 1298 00:36:48.220 --> 00:36:48.480 very 1299 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.040 unfortunate 1300 00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:50.000 period where 1301 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.440 they lost 1302 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:51.040 all these 1303 00:36:51.040 --> 00:36:51.680 leaders and 1304 00:36:51.680 --> 00:36:51.840 there were 1305 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:52.500 scandals. 1306 00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:54.220 The news of 1307 00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:54.760 the world 1308 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:55.560 came up 1309 00:36:55.560 --> 00:36:57.320 with, found 1310 00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:57.780 out something 1311 00:36:57.780 --> 00:36:58.480 about one 1312 00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:58.720 of the 1313 00:36:58.720 --> 00:36:59.120 leadership 1314 00:36:59.120 --> 00:36:59.580 candidates, 1315 00:36:59.780 --> 00:37:00.140 which is 1316 00:37:00.140 --> 00:37:00.540 that he 1317 00:37:00.540 --> 00:37:01.720 had been 1318 00:37:01.720 --> 00:37:02.360 having secret 1319 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:03.180 assignations 1320 00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:03.480 with a 1321 00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:03.940 rent boy 1322 00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:04.440 in offices 1323 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.080 near 1324 00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:05.760 Westminster. 1325 00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:07.780 A piece 1326 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:08.260 of information 1327 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:08.700 with which 1328 00:37:08.700 --> 00:37:09.140 they went 1329 00:37:09.140 --> 00:37:09.620 to this 1330 00:37:09.620 --> 00:37:10.060 guy and 1331 00:37:10.060 --> 00:37:10.260 said, 1332 00:37:10.300 --> 00:37:10.540 listen, 1333 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:11.320 we know 1334 00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:11.720 all about 1335 00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:12.340 this and 1336 00:37:12.340 --> 00:37:12.840 you have 1337 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:13.040 to give 1338 00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:13.260 us an 1339 00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:13.500 interview 1340 00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:14.020 otherwise we're 1341 00:37:14.020 --> 00:37:14.140 just going 1342 00:37:14.140 --> 00:37:14.380 to print 1343 00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:14.780 it anyway. 1344 00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:15.580 So they 1345 00:37:16.120 --> 00:37:16.600 sensitively... 1346 00:37:16.600 --> 00:37:16.900 in Britain 1347 00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:17.220 this is 1348 00:37:17.220 --> 00:37:17.880 compulsory 1349 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:18.140 for 1350 00:37:18.140 --> 00:37:18.800 parliamentarians 1351 00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:19.180 to have 1352 00:37:19.180 --> 00:37:19.780 assignations 1353 00:37:19.780 --> 00:37:20.100 with rent 1354 00:37:20.100 --> 00:37:20.320 boys. 1355 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:21.480 So they, 1356 00:37:22.180 --> 00:37:22.420 he was 1357 00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:22.900 all over 1358 00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:23.260 the front 1359 00:37:23.260 --> 00:37:23.820 page with 1360 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:24.080 this, 1361 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:24.460 sort of, 1362 00:37:24.460 --> 00:37:24.940 you know, 1363 00:37:24.940 --> 00:37:26.420 really quiet 1364 00:37:27.700 --> 00:37:28.260 lurid 1365 00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:28.620 detail. 1366 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:29.600 And then 1367 00:37:29.600 --> 00:37:30.740 the sun, 1368 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:31.660 I think, 1369 00:37:31.680 --> 00:37:32.260 found out 1370 00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:32.720 that another 1371 00:37:32.720 --> 00:37:33.160 of the 1372 00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:33.480 leadership 1373 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:34.080 contenders 1374 00:37:34.080 --> 00:37:34.300 of the 1375 00:37:34.300 --> 00:37:34.500 Liberal 1376 00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:34.900 Democrats 1377 00:37:34.900 --> 00:37:35.320 had 1378 00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:36.300 privately 1379 00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:36.640 admitted 1380 00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:37.220 to being 1381 00:37:37.220 --> 00:37:37.760 bisexual, 1382 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:38.880 which they 1383 00:37:39.720 --> 00:37:40.280 disclosed 1384 00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:40.600 on the 1385 00:37:40.600 --> 00:37:41.040 front page 1386 00:37:41.040 --> 00:37:41.260 of the 1387 00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:41.760 paper with 1388 00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:42.280 the headline 1389 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:43.140 and another 1390 00:37:43.140 --> 00:37:43.740 one bites 1391 00:37:43.740 --> 00:37:44.240 the pillow. 1392 00:37:44.660 --> 00:37:46.000 And I 1393 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:46.880 thought at 1394 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.460 that time, 1395 00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:48.580 gosh, 1396 00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:49.520 I'm a long 1397 00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:49.920 way from 1398 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:50.700 Kansas now, 1399 00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:51.360 aren't I? 1400 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:52.600 Because in 1401 00:37:52.600 --> 00:37:53.060 Britain, 1402 00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:54.240 journalists 1403 00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:55.320 will do 1404 00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:55.860 anything, 1405 00:37:57.020 --> 00:37:57.040 lie, 1406 00:37:57.300 --> 00:37:57.520 cheat, 1407 00:37:57.640 --> 00:37:57.880 steal, 1408 00:37:58.100 --> 00:37:58.400 bug, 1409 00:37:58.620 --> 00:37:59.040 dress up 1410 00:37:59.040 --> 00:37:59.300 as a 1411 00:37:59.300 --> 00:37:59.620 sheik, 1412 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.040 misrepresent 1413 00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:02.100 themselves to 1414 00:38:02.100 --> 00:38:02.600 find out 1415 00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:02.980 something 1416 00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:03.740 personally 1417 00:38:03.740 --> 00:38:04.740 demeaning or 1418 00:38:04.740 --> 00:38:05.320 compromising 1419 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:05.860 about a 1420 00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:06.400 public figure. 1421 00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:07.140 And I 1422 00:38:07.140 --> 00:38:07.720 have always 1423 00:38:07.720 --> 00:38:08.340 felt very 1424 00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:08.940 grateful that 1425 00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:09.340 we don't 1426 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:09.760 do that. 1427 00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:11.240 In the 1428 00:38:11.240 --> 00:38:11.660 US, 1429 00:38:11.740 --> 00:38:12.480 there is 1430 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:13.140 an incredible 1431 00:38:13.140 --> 00:38:14.960 division in 1432 00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:16.560 media and 1433 00:38:16.560 --> 00:38:17.500 political terms 1434 00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:18.800 that is just 1435 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:20.060 beyond anything 1436 00:38:20.060 --> 00:38:20.700 that we see 1437 00:38:20.700 --> 00:38:21.520 here still. 1438 00:38:22.380 --> 00:38:22.940 I 1439 00:38:22.940 --> 00:38:23.520 think that 1440 00:38:23.520 --> 00:38:24.780 in America, 1441 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:26.300 the creation 1442 00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:26.880 of political 1443 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:27.900 divisions has 1444 00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:28.880 actually entered 1445 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:29.500 into the 1446 00:38:29.500 --> 00:38:30.280 business model 1447 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:30.940 of media. 1448 00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:32.100 An extremely 1449 00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:33.240 clever man 1450 00:38:33.240 --> 00:38:33.860 called Roger 1451 00:38:33.860 --> 00:38:34.200 Ailes, 1452 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:35.940 who has 1453 00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:36.720 been many 1454 00:38:36.720 --> 00:38:37.200 things in 1455 00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:37.620 his career, 1456 00:38:37.700 --> 00:38:38.340 including a 1457 00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:39.200 political advisor 1458 00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:40.120 to Nixon 1459 00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:41.920 and a 1460 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:43.220 very close 1461 00:38:43.220 --> 00:38:44.060 associate of 1462 00:38:44.060 --> 00:38:45.320 Rupert Murdoch's 1463 00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:45.820 I think he 1464 00:38:45.820 --> 00:38:46.000 called him 1465 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.640 Rupert Murdoch, 1466 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:47.100 which is 1467 00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:48.220 actually an 1468 00:38:48.220 --> 00:38:48.680 insult I've 1469 00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:49.060 never seen 1470 00:38:49.060 --> 00:38:49.420 in print. 1471 00:38:49.620 --> 00:38:51.740 Probably not 1472 00:38:51.740 --> 00:38:52.300 applicable in 1473 00:38:52.300 --> 00:38:52.580 any way. 1474 00:38:52.580 --> 00:38:52.900 But anyway. 1475 00:38:53.500 --> 00:38:54.600 And I 1476 00:38:54.600 --> 00:38:55.220 think that 1477 00:38:55.220 --> 00:38:56.580 he actually 1478 00:38:57.860 --> 00:38:58.880 worked out 1479 00:38:58.880 --> 00:38:59.540 some years 1480 00:38:59.540 --> 00:39:00.140 ago that 1481 00:39:00.140 --> 00:39:00.660 there was a 1482 00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:01.480 very viable 1483 00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:02.360 business model 1484 00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:03.660 in creating 1485 00:39:03.660 --> 00:39:04.800 a TV 1486 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:05.700 network that 1487 00:39:05.700 --> 00:39:06.400 seemed like 1488 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:07.340 home to 1489 00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:07.880 people of a 1490 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:08.900 certain political 1491 00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:09.560 outlook. 1492 00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:10.920 And that 1493 00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:11.480 seems to be 1494 00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:11.960 working out 1495 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:12.720 very well. 1496 00:39:12.820 --> 00:39:13.380 I think that 1497 00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:13.820 that is the 1498 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:14.300 point at 1499 00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:15.080 which the 1500 00:39:15.080 --> 00:39:16.000 business imperative 1501 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.420 and ideological 1502 00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:20.340 orientation kind 1503 00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:21.080 of mesh into 1504 00:39:21.080 --> 00:39:21.340 one. 1505 00:39:21.700 --> 00:39:22.520 I hope it 1506 00:39:22.580 --> 00:39:22.840 doesn't happen 1507 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:23.020 here. 1508 00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:23.340 Do you think 1509 00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:23.920 though you said 1510 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:24.520 that we're not 1511 00:39:24.520 --> 00:39:25.260 as grubby as 1512 00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:25.880 in the UK? 1513 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:26.580 We don't, 1514 00:39:26.580 --> 00:39:27.080 our journalists 1515 00:39:27.080 --> 00:39:27.860 don't dress up 1516 00:39:27.860 --> 00:39:28.560 and they don't 1517 00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:29.280 go under 1518 00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.100 secret. 1519 00:39:30.100 --> 00:39:30.660 We dress up. 1520 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:31.700 You dress up 1521 00:39:31.700 --> 00:39:31.840 obviously. 1522 00:39:32.100 --> 00:39:32.660 I often dress up. 1523 00:39:32.660 --> 00:39:32.940 Look at you 1524 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:33.200 today. 1525 00:39:33.520 --> 00:39:36.160 But we do 1526 00:39:36.160 --> 00:39:36.760 have programs 1527 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:37.260 such as 1528 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:37.960 Today Tonight 1529 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:38.460 and The Current 1530 00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:38.840 Affair. 1531 00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:39.380 Do you think 1532 00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:39.740 that they're 1533 00:39:39.740 --> 00:39:40.980 getting into 1534 00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:41.520 that realm? 1535 00:39:42.180 --> 00:39:42.800 Not really. 1536 00:39:43.180 --> 00:39:44.300 And getting worse? 1537 00:39:44.300 --> 00:39:44.640 I mean there 1538 00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:45.000 was that 1539 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:45.740 politician in 1540 00:39:45.740 --> 00:39:46.380 New South Wales 1541 00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:47.060 that was gay 1542 00:39:47.060 --> 00:39:47.560 and he was 1543 00:39:47.560 --> 00:39:48.080 going off to 1544 00:39:48.080 --> 00:39:48.520 brothels. 1545 00:39:48.580 --> 00:39:49.020 And I remember 1546 00:39:49.020 --> 00:39:49.700 Today Tonight 1547 00:39:49.700 --> 00:39:50.040 actually meant 1548 00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:50.680 it was a 1549 00:39:52.100 --> 00:39:52.540 steamboat. 1550 00:39:52.580 --> 00:39:53.060 It was a 1551 00:39:53.060 --> 00:39:53.560 steam bath. 1552 00:39:53.580 --> 00:39:53.740 It was a 1553 00:39:53.740 --> 00:39:53.940 rub and 1554 00:39:53.940 --> 00:39:54.420 tug job. 1555 00:39:55.220 --> 00:39:56.180 Oh gracious. 1556 00:39:57.300 --> 00:39:58.220 I just want to 1557 00:39:58.220 --> 00:39:59.020 get Peter Frey 1558 00:39:59.020 --> 00:39:59.680 to talk about 1559 00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:00.640 sexual concepts. 1560 00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:01.040 But whatever it 1561 00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:01.600 was, I thought 1562 00:40:01.600 --> 00:40:02.880 that was dirty. 1563 00:40:03.160 --> 00:40:03.520 I thought what 1564 00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:04.040 they did was 1565 00:40:04.040 --> 00:40:04.700 terrible to that 1566 00:40:04.700 --> 00:40:04.860 man. 1567 00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:05.220 That was 1568 00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:06.300 completely 1569 00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:07.100 horrible. 1570 00:40:07.120 --> 00:40:08.020 Can I explain 1571 00:40:08.020 --> 00:40:08.520 what happened 1572 00:40:08.520 --> 00:40:09.380 after Channel 1573 00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:10.140 7 put that 1574 00:40:10.140 --> 00:40:10.940 report to air? 1575 00:40:11.080 --> 00:40:11.280 Yes. 1576 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:11.740 So what 1577 00:40:11.740 --> 00:40:12.700 happened is 1578 00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:13.200 that Channel 1579 00:40:13.200 --> 00:40:14.260 7 did a 1580 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:15.040 report about 1581 00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:16.080 a state 1582 00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:16.980 minister for 1583 00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:17.660 I'm thinking 1584 00:40:17.660 --> 00:40:17.940 possibly 1585 00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:18.400 transport. 1586 00:40:18.560 --> 00:40:19.040 Yes. 1587 00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:21.320 Who they 1588 00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:22.380 tailed 1589 00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:22.400 a 1590 00:40:22.580 --> 00:40:22.860 ! 1591 00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:23.100 And filmed 1592 00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:23.660 him going 1593 00:40:23.660 --> 00:40:24.120 into a 1594 00:40:24.120 --> 00:40:24.700 bathhouse 1595 00:40:25.700 --> 00:40:26.740 and happily 1596 00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:27.840 married but 1597 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:28.500 obviously hanging 1598 00:40:28.500 --> 00:40:29.080 out at this 1599 00:40:29.080 --> 00:40:30.340 gay bathhouse. 1600 00:40:30.520 --> 00:40:31.320 And that was 1601 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:32.140 on the news 1602 00:40:32.140 --> 00:40:33.140 with that. 1603 00:40:33.240 --> 00:40:33.500 You know how 1604 00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:34.200 sometimes when 1605 00:40:34.200 --> 00:40:34.620 you're in 1606 00:40:34.620 --> 00:40:35.400 Australia and 1607 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:35.640 you're a 1608 00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:36.160 journalist and 1609 00:40:36.160 --> 00:40:36.560 you know that 1610 00:40:36.560 --> 00:40:37.220 generally we 1611 00:40:37.220 --> 00:40:37.680 don't be 1612 00:40:37.680 --> 00:40:38.280 nosy about 1613 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:38.700 people's 1614 00:40:38.700 --> 00:40:39.280 private lives 1615 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:39.640 unless it 1616 00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:39.980 has something 1617 00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:40.520 to do with 1618 00:40:40.520 --> 00:40:41.060 their job. 1619 00:40:42.200 --> 00:40:42.820 Occasionally if 1620 00:40:42.820 --> 00:40:43.560 you really want 1621 00:40:43.560 --> 00:40:43.940 to run the 1622 00:40:43.940 --> 00:40:44.380 story you 1623 00:40:44.380 --> 00:40:44.800 think of 1624 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.200 some way 1625 00:40:46.200 --> 00:40:47.060 of justifying 1626 00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:47.940 some sort 1627 00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:48.420 of public 1628 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:48.840 interest. 1629 00:40:49.080 --> 00:40:49.800 And usually 1630 00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:50.720 it's you 1631 00:40:50.720 --> 00:40:51.220 used your 1632 00:40:51.220 --> 00:40:52.100 taxpayer funded 1633 00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:52.780 car to 1634 00:40:52.780 --> 00:40:53.540 drive there. 1635 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:54.340 And that's 1636 00:40:54.340 --> 00:40:54.580 what it 1637 00:40:54.580 --> 00:40:55.400 mainly was. 1638 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:55.780 I think that 1639 00:40:55.780 --> 00:40:56.040 was the 1640 00:40:56.040 --> 00:40:56.380 reason. 1641 00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:56.960 But what 1642 00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:57.480 happened after 1643 00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:57.820 they put 1644 00:40:57.820 --> 00:41:03.440 that to 1645 00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:04.060 air is that 1646 00:41:04.060 --> 00:41:04.720 Channel 7 1647 00:41:04.720 --> 00:41:05.340 had a huge 1648 00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:06.200 public backlash 1649 00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:07.420 and it 1650 00:41:07.420 --> 00:41:08.380 was a 1651 00:41:09.680 --> 00:41:10.640 source of 1652 00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:11.560 genuine 1653 00:41:11.560 --> 00:41:12.740 dismay to 1654 00:41:12.740 --> 00:41:13.480 a lot of 1655 00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:14.580 viewers and 1656 00:41:14.580 --> 00:41:15.260 a lot of 1657 00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:16.160 media consumers. 1658 00:41:16.580 --> 00:41:17.100 And I think 1659 00:41:17.100 --> 00:41:17.500 that that 1660 00:41:17.500 --> 00:41:18.060 well I found 1661 00:41:18.060 --> 00:41:18.360 that a 1662 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:18.580 reasonably 1663 00:41:18.580 --> 00:41:19.000 heartening 1664 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:19.540 thing because 1665 00:41:19.540 --> 00:41:20.060 I think that 1666 00:41:20.060 --> 00:41:21.180 that general 1667 00:41:23.740 --> 00:41:24.700 approach that 1668 00:41:24.700 --> 00:41:25.120 we have in 1669 00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:25.680 Australia which 1670 00:41:25.680 --> 00:41:26.560 is that people's 1671 00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:27.240 private lives 1672 00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:29.320 are their own 1673 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:30.360 business unless 1674 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:30.920 they have some 1675 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:31.500 sort of impact 1676 00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:32.060 in the way they 1677 00:41:32.060 --> 00:41:32.620 carry out their 1678 00:41:32.620 --> 00:41:33.500 public duties is a 1679 00:41:33.500 --> 00:41:34.020 very precious 1680 00:41:34.020 --> 00:41:34.380 thing. 1681 00:41:34.540 --> 00:41:35.000 It doesn't 1682 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:35.580 happen everywhere 1683 00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:36.260 and I'm pleased 1684 00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:36.800 that we still 1685 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:37.160 have it 1686 00:41:37.160 --> 00:41:37.860 imperfectly. 1687 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:38.540 Except for 1688 00:41:38.540 --> 00:41:39.680 Perth Talkback 1689 00:41:39.680 --> 00:41:40.740 hosts who 1690 00:41:40.740 --> 00:41:41.160 think that. 1691 00:41:41.180 --> 00:41:41.360 There are 1692 00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:41.840 plenty of 1693 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.240 exceptions. 1694 00:41:42.260 --> 00:41:42.600 He did 1695 00:41:42.600 --> 00:41:43.020 which was 1696 00:41:43.020 --> 00:41:43.200 great. 1697 00:41:43.340 --> 00:41:44.000 There are 1698 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.540 repercussions. 1699 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:45.720 This is a 1700 00:41:46.340 --> 00:41:46.660 rule in 1701 00:41:46.660 --> 00:41:47.020 Australia. 1702 00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:47.520 There are 1703 00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:48.420 repercussions if 1704 00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:48.940 you break it 1705 00:41:48.940 --> 00:41:49.660 and there are 1706 00:41:49.660 --> 00:41:49.980 political 1707 00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:50.980 repercussions as 1708 00:41:50.980 --> 00:41:51.500 well for 1709 00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:52.480 politicians who 1710 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:54.240 smear their 1711 00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:55.700 political 1712 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:57.020 opponents' 1713 00:41:57.280 --> 00:41:57.560 lives. 1714 00:41:58.680 --> 00:41:59.480 And it's 1715 00:41:59.480 --> 00:41:59.780 terrific. 1716 00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:00.300 It's 1717 00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:00.640 fragile. 1718 00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:02.060 Oh it's 1719 00:42:02.060 --> 00:42:02.380 fragile. 1720 00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:03.240 But it's 1721 00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:03.680 a terrific 1722 00:42:03.680 --> 00:42:04.220 thing in 1723 00:42:04.220 --> 00:42:04.740 this country. 1724 00:42:06.340 --> 00:42:06.880 Audience 1725 00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:07.260 questions? 1726 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:07.800 You've got a 1727 00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:07.980 question? 1728 00:42:08.200 --> 00:42:08.620 There's a 1729 00:42:08.620 --> 00:42:08.860 man. 1730 00:42:09.340 --> 00:42:10.260 Oh at the 1731 00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:10.580 microphone. 1732 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:11.280 I can't see 1733 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:11.800 behind the 1734 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:12.060 pillar. 1735 00:42:12.180 --> 00:42:12.480 Sorry. 1736 00:42:12.600 --> 00:42:12.860 Go. 1737 00:42:13.060 --> 00:42:13.700 The arrangement 1738 00:42:13.700 --> 00:42:14.480 here is that 1739 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.500 the chair of 1740 00:42:15.500 --> 00:42:15.880 our session 1741 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:16.500 can't actually 1742 00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:17.040 see the 1743 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:17.320 microphone. 1744 00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:19.720 Well done. 1745 00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:20.160 Go. 1746 00:42:22.300 --> 00:42:23.280 My question 1747 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:23.740 was for 1748 00:42:23.740 --> 00:42:24.520 David but 1749 00:42:24.520 --> 00:42:24.900 anyone can 1750 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:25.320 answer it. 1751 00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:26.420 You said not 1752 00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:26.940 so long ago 1753 00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.120 that newspapers 1754 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:30.260 that engage in 1755 00:42:30.260 --> 00:42:30.940 sort of political 1756 00:42:30.940 --> 00:42:31.840 campaigning or 1757 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:32.620 leaning to one 1758 00:42:32.620 --> 00:42:33.260 side of politics 1759 00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:34.120 that you defend 1760 00:42:34.120 --> 00:42:35.800 their right to 1761 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:36.960 do so almost 1762 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:37.620 vehemently. 1763 00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:38.620 Would you say 1764 00:42:38.620 --> 00:42:39.140 that the stakes 1765 00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:39.420 and the 1766 00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:40.300 responsibilities are 1767 00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:40.980 different in a 1768 00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:41.480 country like 1769 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:42.700 Australia as it 1770 00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:43.640 currently is? 1771 00:42:44.260 --> 00:42:45.180 Particularly in a 1772 00:42:45.180 --> 00:42:45.540 state like 1773 00:42:45.540 --> 00:42:46.180 South Australia 1774 00:42:46.180 --> 00:42:46.840 where there is 1775 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:47.880 only one real 1776 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:48.700 newspaper in 1777 00:42:48.700 --> 00:42:49.720 broad circulation. 1778 00:42:49.720 --> 00:42:51.600 And your choice 1779 00:42:51.600 --> 00:42:52.340 is either to be 1780 00:42:52.340 --> 00:42:53.420 misinformed or 1781 00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:54.180 not informed at 1782 00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:54.340 all. 1783 00:42:58.900 --> 00:43:00.320 You sir are 1784 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:01.060 talking about a 1785 00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:01.780 time before the 1786 00:43:01.780 --> 00:43:02.420 internet because 1787 00:43:02.420 --> 00:43:03.100 now you can 1788 00:43:03.100 --> 00:43:03.400 read the 1789 00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:03.620 Guardian. 1790 00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:07.520 But the 1791 00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:09.060 point you make 1792 00:43:09.060 --> 00:43:09.700 is a good 1793 00:43:09.700 --> 00:43:09.960 one. 1794 00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:11.700 And for 1795 00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:12.260 those people 1796 00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:13.480 who endlessly 1797 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.060 worship Paul 1798 00:43:15.060 --> 00:43:16.320 Keating, the 1799 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.240 marvellous man 1800 00:43:17.240 --> 00:43:17.960 he was, the 1801 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:19.000 great leader he 1802 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:19.640 was in this 1803 00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:21.020 country, this 1804 00:43:21.020 --> 00:43:22.800 sainted labour 1805 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.080 leader, etc., 1806 00:43:24.080 --> 00:43:25.740 etc., I think 1807 00:43:25.740 --> 00:43:26.420 of two things 1808 00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:27.000 about Paul 1809 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:27.280 Keating. 1810 00:43:27.540 --> 00:43:28.500 One was that 1811 00:43:28.500 --> 00:43:29.400 after a year 1812 00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:30.960 in which 216 1813 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:31.980 people had 1814 00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:32.600 arrived in 1815 00:43:32.600 --> 00:43:33.480 Australia by 1816 00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:34.680 boat seeking 1817 00:43:34.680 --> 00:43:35.800 refugee protection, 1818 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:37.540 he instituted 1819 00:43:37.540 --> 00:43:38.040 mandatory 1820 00:43:38.040 --> 00:43:39.320 detention, which 1821 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.980 is still with 1822 00:43:39.980 --> 00:43:40.240 us. 1823 00:43:40.660 --> 00:43:41.660 And in a 1824 00:43:41.660 --> 00:43:42.480 deal which he 1825 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.080 thought would 1826 00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:44.200 advantage his 1827 00:43:44.200 --> 00:43:45.520 party, he 1828 00:43:45.520 --> 00:43:46.320 allowed Rupert 1829 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:46.840 Murdoch to 1830 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:47.640 buy the entire 1831 00:43:47.640 --> 00:43:48.540 Herald and 1832 00:43:48.540 --> 00:43:49.280 Weekly Times 1833 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:50.920 Empire, so 1834 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:52.320 that alone of 1835 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:53.260 any democracy 1836 00:43:53.260 --> 00:43:54.440 in the world, 1837 00:43:56.080 --> 00:43:56.840 nearly three 1838 00:43:56.840 --> 00:43:58.000 quarters of 1839 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:58.660 the newspapers 1840 00:43:58.660 --> 00:43:59.980 sold every 1841 00:43:59.980 --> 00:44:01.140 day are 1842 00:44:01.140 --> 00:44:02.040 sold by the 1843 00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:03.260 one proprietor. 1844 00:44:04.180 --> 00:44:04.860 And this is a 1845 00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:06.000 situation which 1846 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.000 is bad for 1847 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:08.500 the democracy 1848 00:44:08.500 --> 00:44:09.140 of this 1849 00:44:09.140 --> 00:44:09.580 country. 1850 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:10.860 But I'm 1851 00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:12.100 glad to say 1852 00:44:12.100 --> 00:44:13.300 that the 1853 00:44:13.300 --> 00:44:14.120 internet is 1854 00:44:14.120 --> 00:44:14.820 a way in 1855 00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:16.540 which there 1856 00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:17.560 will be some 1857 00:44:17.560 --> 00:44:18.060 restored 1858 00:44:18.060 --> 00:44:18.560 balance. 1859 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.920 And I 1860 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:21.480 don't know 1861 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:22.280 about you, but 1862 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:23.200 I was perfectly 1863 00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:23.960 able to buy 1864 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:24.600 interstate 1865 00:44:24.600 --> 00:44:25.480 newspapers at 1866 00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:26.000 the Adelaide 1867 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:26.700 markets this 1868 00:44:26.700 --> 00:44:27.300 morning even 1869 00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:28.160 before breakfast, 1870 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:28.580 and I 1871 00:44:28.580 --> 00:44:29.380 recommend it 1872 00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:29.760 to you. 1873 00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:35.460 As well, of 1874 00:44:35.460 --> 00:44:35.940 course, as 1875 00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:36.440 keeping up to 1876 00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:37.060 date with the 1877 00:44:37.060 --> 00:44:37.480 Adelaide 1878 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:38.040 Advertiser. 1879 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:39.100 Well, I 1880 00:44:39.100 --> 00:44:39.640 don't know what 1881 00:44:39.640 --> 00:44:40.200 time you get 1882 00:44:40.200 --> 00:44:40.600 up, madam. 1883 00:44:40.700 --> 00:44:41.340 I know that 1884 00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:41.760 this is a 1885 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.620 state in 1886 00:44:42.620 --> 00:44:43.260 which virtue 1887 00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:43.780 is almost 1888 00:44:43.780 --> 00:44:44.880 defined by a 1889 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:45.920 5.30 a.m. 1890 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:46.300 rising. 1891 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:48.140 But I was at 1892 00:44:48.140 --> 00:44:48.900 breakfast by 1893 00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:49.600 20 past 1894 00:44:49.600 --> 00:44:49.980 8. 1895 00:44:51.620 --> 00:44:52.520 Sydney time. 1896 00:44:52.680 --> 00:44:53.180 Very Sydney 1897 00:44:53.180 --> 00:44:53.420 time. 1898 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:54.140 There's 1899 00:44:54.140 --> 00:44:54.620 something very 1900 00:44:54.620 --> 00:44:55.320 defensive about 1901 00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:55.980 that 20 1902 00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:56.460 past. 1903 00:44:57.200 --> 00:44:58.140 Yeah, feels 1904 00:44:58.140 --> 00:44:58.560 more like 1905 00:44:58.560 --> 00:44:58.880 40. 1906 00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:00.500 Hi there. 1907 00:45:00.600 --> 00:45:01.100 I'd just 1908 00:45:01.100 --> 00:45:01.420 like to ask 1909 00:45:01.420 --> 00:45:01.680 the panel 1910 00:45:01.680 --> 00:45:02.340 their opinions 1911 00:45:02.340 --> 00:45:02.680 on the 1912 00:45:02.680 --> 00:45:03.100 following 1913 00:45:03.100 --> 00:45:03.680 question. 1914 00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:04.080 I don't 1915 00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:04.240 think 1916 00:45:04.240 --> 00:45:04.760 necessarily 1917 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:05.500 what people 1918 00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:05.740 in this 1919 00:45:05.740 --> 00:45:06.180 room probably 1920 00:45:06.180 --> 00:45:06.540 may be 1921 00:45:06.540 --> 00:45:07.480 angry because 1922 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:08.060 we're engaged. 1923 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:09.180 I think the 1924 00:45:09.180 --> 00:45:10.880 broader society 1925 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:11.620 may not be. 1926 00:45:11.940 --> 00:45:12.940 I myself am a 1927 00:45:12.940 --> 00:45:13.220 high school 1928 00:45:13.220 --> 00:45:13.800 teacher and I'm 1929 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:14.440 currently doing 1930 00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:15.500 a unit with 1931 00:45:15.500 --> 00:45:15.820 a bunch of 1932 00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:16.540 students on 1933 00:45:16.540 --> 00:45:16.960 politics. 1934 00:45:17.560 --> 00:45:18.420 And I 1935 00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:18.800 asked the 1936 00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:19.080 question 1937 00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:19.600 immediately at 1938 00:45:19.600 --> 00:45:19.940 the start of 1939 00:45:19.940 --> 00:45:20.280 the unit, 1940 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:20.820 what is 1941 00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:21.120 democracy? 1942 00:45:22.080 --> 00:45:22.960 And no 1943 00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:23.220 one could 1944 00:45:23.220 --> 00:45:23.500 give me an 1945 00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:23.760 answer. 1946 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:26.680 And I'm 1947 00:45:26.680 --> 00:45:27.820 finding that 1948 00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:30.700 there's apathy 1949 00:45:30.700 --> 00:45:31.400 towards democracy 1950 00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:32.120 in society. 1951 00:45:32.240 --> 00:45:32.420 And I'm 1952 00:45:32.420 --> 00:45:32.660 just wondering 1953 00:45:32.660 --> 00:45:32.900 what your 1954 00:45:32.900 --> 00:45:33.340 opinions are 1955 00:45:33.340 --> 00:45:33.720 about that. 1956 00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:34.520 Where does 1957 00:45:34.520 --> 00:45:34.860 that come 1958 00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:35.080 from? 1959 00:45:35.120 --> 00:45:35.600 And potentially 1960 00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.240 what can 1961 00:45:36.240 --> 00:45:36.760 either media 1962 00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:37.440 or politicians 1963 00:45:38.180 --> 00:45:39.000 do to 1964 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:40.000 stop that? 1965 00:45:41.120 --> 00:45:41.680 Well, of 1966 00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.020 course, it's 1967 00:45:42.020 --> 00:45:42.380 a kind of 1968 00:45:42.380 --> 00:45:42.800 a perverse 1969 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:43.460 tribute to 1970 00:45:43.460 --> 00:45:43.840 the democracy, 1971 00:45:44.060 --> 00:45:44.480 isn't it? 1972 00:45:44.820 --> 00:45:45.540 Part of the 1973 00:45:45.540 --> 00:45:46.060 gift of 1974 00:45:46.060 --> 00:45:47.180 democracy is 1975 00:45:47.180 --> 00:45:47.640 when it's 1976 00:45:47.640 --> 00:45:48.400 very robust, 1977 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:48.760 you can 1978 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:49.260 afford to 1979 00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:49.940 take your 1980 00:45:49.940 --> 00:45:50.520 freedoms for 1981 00:45:50.520 --> 00:45:50.820 granted. 1982 00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:51.420 And we 1983 00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:51.680 are a 1984 00:45:51.680 --> 00:45:52.180 country that 1985 00:45:52.180 --> 00:45:53.160 has made 1986 00:45:53.160 --> 00:45:53.600 a history 1987 00:45:53.600 --> 00:45:54.180 of taking 1988 00:45:54.180 --> 00:45:54.760 our freedoms 1989 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:55.400 for granted. 1990 00:45:55.680 --> 00:45:56.380 We never 1991 00:45:56.380 --> 00:45:56.900 had a war 1992 00:45:56.900 --> 00:45:57.340 of independence. 1993 00:45:58.860 --> 00:45:59.700 A lot of 1994 00:45:59.700 --> 00:46:00.740 the freedom 1995 00:46:00.740 --> 00:46:01.040 that we 1996 00:46:01.040 --> 00:46:01.520 enjoy are 1997 00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:02.460 the gift 1998 00:46:02.460 --> 00:46:03.620 of our 1999 00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:04.360 British 2000 00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:04.820 inheritance. 2001 00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:06.740 And that 2002 00:46:07.640 --> 00:46:07.960 has its 2003 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:08.540 pluses and 2004 00:46:08.540 --> 00:46:09.600 its minuses. 2005 00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:11.800 Some of 2006 00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:11.980 the most 2007 00:46:11.980 --> 00:46:12.360 politically 2008 00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:12.760 engaged 2009 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:13.660 countries in 2010 00:46:13.660 --> 00:46:14.140 the world 2011 00:46:14.140 --> 00:46:15.000 are the 2012 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.080 most unstable 2013 00:46:16.080 --> 00:46:17.520 and schismatic. 2014 00:46:18.080 --> 00:46:18.740 And I'm 2015 00:46:18.740 --> 00:46:18.880 certainly 2016 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.720 don't envy 2017 00:46:19.720 --> 00:46:20.120 them their 2018 00:46:20.120 --> 00:46:20.620 levels of 2019 00:46:20.620 --> 00:46:21.060 engagement. 2020 00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:24.300 But, you 2021 00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:24.640 know, I 2022 00:46:25.580 --> 00:46:25.960 think you 2023 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:26.200 should 2024 00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:29.660 respect the 2025 00:46:29.660 --> 00:46:30.100 kids who 2026 00:46:30.100 --> 00:46:30.500 say they 2027 00:46:30.500 --> 00:46:30.760 don't know 2028 00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:31.300 what democracy 2029 00:46:31.300 --> 00:46:32.020 is because 2030 00:46:32.020 --> 00:46:33.060 I've been 2031 00:46:33.060 --> 00:46:33.620 working for 2032 00:46:33.620 --> 00:46:34.280 40 years 2033 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:34.940 to try to 2034 00:46:34.940 --> 00:46:35.420 work out 2035 00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:36.760 I'm 2036 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:37.980 fascinated by 2037 00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:38.520 the endless 2038 00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:39.360 subtleties of 2039 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:39.780 the ways 2040 00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.240 in which 2041 00:46:40.240 --> 00:46:40.820 this country 2042 00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:41.340 works. 2043 00:46:42.220 --> 00:46:42.980 And how 2044 00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:43.480 democracy 2045 00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:44.180 actually 2046 00:46:44.180 --> 00:46:45.120 operates in 2047 00:46:45.120 --> 00:46:45.680 this country 2048 00:46:45.680 --> 00:46:46.480 is a 2049 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:46.960 continuing 2050 00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:47.860 mystery which 2051 00:46:47.860 --> 00:46:48.500 is continuously 2052 00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:49.320 being revealed 2053 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:49.940 as time 2054 00:46:49.940 --> 00:46:50.560 goes on. 2055 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:51.500 But you 2056 00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:51.900 can talk 2057 00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:52.260 about the 2058 00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:52.800 structure of 2059 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:53.180 things and 2060 00:46:53.180 --> 00:46:53.600 you can talk 2061 00:46:53.600 --> 00:46:54.020 about the 2062 00:46:54.020 --> 00:46:54.260 sort of 2063 00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:54.560 basic 2064 00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:55.460 ambitions of 2065 00:46:56.140 --> 00:46:56.820 freedom and 2066 00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:57.400 debate and 2067 00:46:57.400 --> 00:46:57.740 shifting 2068 00:46:57.740 --> 00:46:58.320 governments and 2069 00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:58.520 things. 2070 00:46:58.620 --> 00:46:59.020 But just 2071 00:46:59.020 --> 00:46:59.800 how democracy 2072 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.140 operates in 2073 00:47:01.140 --> 00:47:01.780 this country, 2074 00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:02.920 I'm hoping 2075 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:03.460 to work it 2076 00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:03.840 out one 2077 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:04.100 day. 2078 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:06.100 I would 2079 00:47:06.100 --> 00:47:06.600 say that 2080 00:47:06.600 --> 00:47:07.380 the question 2081 00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:08.480 actually gets 2082 00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:09.020 conflated, 2083 00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:09.440 which is 2084 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:10.360 that really 2085 00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:10.760 we're not 2086 00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:11.060 talking about 2087 00:47:11.060 --> 00:47:11.360 democracy, 2088 00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:11.660 we're talking 2089 00:47:11.660 --> 00:47:12.080 about trust 2090 00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:12.640 in democracy. 2091 00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:13.460 And that 2092 00:47:13.460 --> 00:47:13.800 goes back 2093 00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:14.000 to what 2094 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:14.200 we've been 2095 00:47:14.200 --> 00:47:14.960 saying on 2096 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:15.560 this panel. 2097 00:47:15.740 --> 00:47:16.380 And I do 2098 00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:16.680 think there 2099 00:47:16.680 --> 00:47:16.960 is a 2100 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:17.680 democratic 2101 00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:18.320 deficit, 2102 00:47:18.500 --> 00:47:19.120 if you're 2103 00:47:19.120 --> 00:47:19.680 talking about 2104 00:47:19.680 --> 00:47:19.960 trust. 2105 00:47:20.380 --> 00:47:20.900 And that 2106 00:47:20.900 --> 00:47:21.220 is, I 2107 00:47:21.220 --> 00:47:21.460 think, a 2108 00:47:21.460 --> 00:47:22.000 function of 2109 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:22.680 what we've 2110 00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:22.860 been talking 2111 00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:23.060 about the 2112 00:47:23.060 --> 00:47:23.660 last two 2113 00:47:23.660 --> 00:47:23.880 or three 2114 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:24.060 years. 2115 00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:24.460 We've 2116 00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:24.900 seen two 2117 00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:25.140 prime 2118 00:47:25.140 --> 00:47:25.380 ministers 2119 00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:25.920 knifed, 2120 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:26.060 we've 2121 00:47:26.060 --> 00:47:26.260 had a 2122 00:47:26.260 --> 00:47:26.380 hung 2123 00:47:26.380 --> 00:47:26.720 parliament, 2124 00:47:27.040 --> 00:47:27.460 we've 2125 00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:27.580 had 2126 00:47:28.600 --> 00:47:29.000 scandals 2127 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:29.160 and what 2128 00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:29.460 have you. 2129 00:47:30.120 --> 00:47:30.680 And the 2130 00:47:30.680 --> 00:47:31.280 numbers that 2131 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:32.020 David is 2132 00:47:32.020 --> 00:47:33.200 quoting from 2133 00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:33.620 the survey 2134 00:47:33.620 --> 00:47:34.380 are of 2135 00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:35.300 great concern. 2136 00:47:35.420 --> 00:47:36.060 In terms 2137 00:47:36.060 --> 00:47:36.340 of what 2138 00:47:36.340 --> 00:47:36.640 we can 2139 00:47:36.640 --> 00:47:37.040 do about 2140 00:47:37.040 --> 00:47:37.240 it, 2141 00:47:37.420 --> 00:47:39.160 going back 2142 00:47:39.160 --> 00:47:39.380 to the 2143 00:47:39.380 --> 00:47:39.620 net, 2144 00:47:40.340 --> 00:47:40.900 the net 2145 00:47:40.900 --> 00:47:41.100 is an 2146 00:47:41.100 --> 00:47:41.580 incredibly 2147 00:47:42.200 --> 00:47:42.600 democratic, 2148 00:47:43.580 --> 00:47:44.380 very perverse 2149 00:47:44.380 --> 00:47:45.280 institution as 2150 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:45.680 well, but 2151 00:47:45.680 --> 00:47:46.340 the net 2152 00:47:46.340 --> 00:47:47.260 enables us 2153 00:47:47.260 --> 00:47:47.660 to be 2154 00:47:47.660 --> 00:47:48.180 engaged, 2155 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:49.320 enables us 2156 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:49.880 to organize, 2157 00:47:50.200 --> 00:47:51.140 enables us 2158 00:47:51.140 --> 00:47:52.040 to educate, 2159 00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:53.220 and ultimately 2160 00:47:53.220 --> 00:47:54.000 enables us 2161 00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:54.580 to actually 2162 00:47:54.580 --> 00:47:55.000 do something 2163 00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:55.360 about this 2164 00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:55.660 democratic 2165 00:47:55.660 --> 00:47:56.180 deficit. 2166 00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:57.180 And there's 2167 00:47:57.180 --> 00:47:57.520 plenty of 2168 00:47:57.520 --> 00:47:58.280 examples of 2169 00:47:58.280 --> 00:47:58.580 the net 2170 00:47:58.580 --> 00:47:59.460 being used 2171 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:00.840 for great 2172 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:01.160 ends, 2173 00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:01.740 democratic 2174 00:48:01.740 --> 00:48:02.220 ends. 2175 00:48:02.620 --> 00:48:03.780 And, you 2176 00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:04.220 know, yes, 2177 00:48:04.340 --> 00:48:04.940 there's lots of 2178 00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:05.600 crap on the 2179 00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:05.940 net and there's 2180 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:06.220 no argument 2181 00:48:06.220 --> 00:48:06.500 about that 2182 00:48:06.500 --> 00:48:07.020 either, but 2183 00:48:07.020 --> 00:48:08.160 if we can 2184 00:48:08.160 --> 00:48:08.640 find a way 2185 00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:09.420 of civilizing 2186 00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:10.200 the net 2187 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:11.840 and demanding 2188 00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.600 and using 2189 00:48:12.600 --> 00:48:13.300 the tool 2190 00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:14.040 to connect 2191 00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:14.760 with each 2192 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:15.040 other, 2193 00:48:15.180 --> 00:48:16.040 and I'm 2194 00:48:16.040 --> 00:48:16.320 not being 2195 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:17.020 utopian in 2196 00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:17.360 that because 2197 00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:17.780 lots of 2198 00:48:17.780 --> 00:48:18.120 people show 2199 00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:18.480 that that's 2200 00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:18.820 quite easily 2201 00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:20.020 done, then I 2202 00:48:20.020 --> 00:48:20.300 think we've 2203 00:48:20.300 --> 00:48:20.660 got a good 2204 00:48:20.660 --> 00:48:21.360 chance of 2205 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.400 restoring our 2206 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:23.000 faith in 2207 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:23.300 democracy. 2208 00:48:23.600 --> 00:48:23.920 I think 2209 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:25.100 another thing 2210 00:48:25.100 --> 00:48:25.820 to emphasize 2211 00:48:25.820 --> 00:48:26.740 is that the 2212 00:48:26.740 --> 00:48:27.260 democracy, 2213 00:48:27.560 --> 00:48:28.340 sometimes we 2214 00:48:28.340 --> 00:48:28.880 talk about it 2215 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:29.340 as though it's 2216 00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:29.640 a kind of 2217 00:48:29.640 --> 00:48:30.020 an abstract 2218 00:48:30.020 --> 00:48:30.540 or a sort 2219 00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:30.700 of a 2220 00:48:30.700 --> 00:48:31.020 monolithic 2221 00:48:31.020 --> 00:48:31.540 thing, the 2222 00:48:31.540 --> 00:48:31.840 thing that 2223 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:32.260 takes place 2224 00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:32.900 in Canberra 2225 00:48:32.900 --> 00:48:33.080 or we 2226 00:48:33.080 --> 00:48:34.100 argue about 2227 00:48:34.100 --> 00:48:35.360 at election 2228 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:35.920 times. 2229 00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:36.940 There is a 2230 00:48:36.940 --> 00:48:37.160 lot of 2231 00:48:37.160 --> 00:48:38.060 democracy in 2232 00:48:38.060 --> 00:48:39.340 Australia that 2233 00:48:39.340 --> 00:48:40.000 happens so 2234 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:40.600 naturally that 2235 00:48:40.600 --> 00:48:41.080 we don't even 2236 00:48:41.080 --> 00:48:41.660 notice it. 2237 00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:42.700 I'm often 2238 00:48:42.700 --> 00:48:44.360 struck at my 2239 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:45.220 cricket club by 2240 00:48:45.220 --> 00:48:45.900 what a 2241 00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:46.280 democratic 2242 00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:47.340 institution it 2243 00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:48.040 actually is. 2244 00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:49.220 We have our 2245 00:48:49.220 --> 00:48:49.760 annual meeting 2246 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:50.880 every year, we 2247 00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:51.400 elect the 2248 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:51.980 committee members, 2249 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:52.680 we hold 2250 00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:53.260 regular committee 2251 00:48:53.260 --> 00:48:53.720 meetings, 2252 00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:54.640 practices 2253 00:48:54.640 --> 00:48:55.360 organised on 2254 00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:55.700 the basis 2255 00:48:55.700 --> 00:48:57.020 of everyone 2256 00:48:57.020 --> 00:48:57.600 bats and 2257 00:48:57.600 --> 00:48:58.160 bowls for 2258 00:48:58.160 --> 00:48:58.520 the same 2259 00:48:58.520 --> 00:48:59.000 period of 2260 00:48:59.000 --> 00:48:59.380 time. 2261 00:48:59.740 --> 00:49:00.340 There's 2262 00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:00.800 a quality 2263 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:01.400 of opportunity, 2264 00:49:02.020 --> 00:49:02.880 a quality 2265 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:03.780 of mediocrity 2266 00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:04.440 probably in 2267 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:05.480 our case. 2268 00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:07.840 And there's 2269 00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.200 a general 2270 00:49:08.200 --> 00:49:08.620 kind of a 2271 00:49:08.620 --> 00:49:09.100 sense of 2272 00:49:09.100 --> 00:49:10.420 trust in 2273 00:49:10.420 --> 00:49:11.300 fair dealing 2274 00:49:11.300 --> 00:49:12.540 and that 2275 00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:13.540 you will be 2276 00:49:13.540 --> 00:49:14.260 assessed in 2277 00:49:14.260 --> 00:49:14.720 terms of 2278 00:49:14.720 --> 00:49:15.620 what you can 2279 00:49:16.300 --> 00:49:16.720 bring to 2280 00:49:16.720 --> 00:49:17.100 the club. 2281 00:49:17.420 --> 00:49:18.020 And 2282 00:49:18.020 --> 00:49:18.520 there's 2283 00:49:18.520 --> 00:49:19.080 something really 2284 00:49:19.080 --> 00:49:20.300 quite marvellous 2285 00:49:20.300 --> 00:49:21.040 and inspiriting 2286 00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:21.460 about the 2287 00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:21.920 fact that 2288 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:23.040 my club, 2289 00:49:23.220 --> 00:49:23.680 my cricket 2290 00:49:23.680 --> 00:49:24.080 club and 2291 00:49:24.080 --> 00:49:24.420 lots of 2292 00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:24.720 other 2293 00:49:24.720 --> 00:49:25.020 clubs, 2294 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:25.660 lots of 2295 00:49:25.660 --> 00:49:25.820 other 2296 00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:26.160 volunteer 2297 00:49:26.160 --> 00:49:26.620 organisations 2298 00:49:26.620 --> 00:49:27.180 around 2299 00:49:27.180 --> 00:49:27.520 Australia, 2300 00:49:27.720 --> 00:49:28.460 take people 2301 00:49:28.460 --> 00:49:28.880 as they 2302 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:29.540 find them. 2303 00:49:31.640 --> 00:49:32.680 And it 2304 00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:33.560 doesn't matter 2305 00:49:33.560 --> 00:49:34.480 which walk 2306 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:34.900 of life 2307 00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:35.380 you're from, 2308 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:35.660 it doesn't 2309 00:49:35.660 --> 00:49:36.200 matter which 2310 00:49:36.200 --> 00:49:36.920 ethnic or 2311 00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:37.160 racial 2312 00:49:37.160 --> 00:49:37.760 background you 2313 00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:38.180 come from, 2314 00:49:38.260 --> 00:49:39.160 as long as 2315 00:49:39.160 --> 00:49:40.320 you adhere 2316 00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:40.960 to certain 2317 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:41.820 rules and 2318 00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:42.180 certain 2319 00:49:42.180 --> 00:49:43.180 understandings, 2320 00:49:43.720 --> 00:49:44.020 you'll be 2321 00:49:44.020 --> 00:49:44.420 looked after. 2322 00:49:44.980 --> 00:49:45.760 And I 2323 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:46.140 think there's 2324 00:49:46.140 --> 00:49:46.340 something 2325 00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:46.780 absolutely 2326 00:49:46.780 --> 00:49:47.500 marvellous 2327 00:49:47.500 --> 00:49:47.800 about, 2328 00:49:48.020 --> 00:49:48.260 the fact 2329 00:49:48.260 --> 00:49:48.540 that that 2330 00:49:48.540 --> 00:49:49.060 just happens 2331 00:49:49.060 --> 00:49:49.400 naturally. 2332 00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:49.760 No one 2333 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:50.120 even needs 2334 00:49:50.120 --> 00:49:50.720 to articulate 2335 00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:51.000 it. 2336 00:49:51.340 --> 00:49:51.900 It's 2337 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:53.440 ingrained. 2338 00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:54.600 Andrew Lee, 2339 00:49:54.740 --> 00:49:55.580 the economist 2340 00:49:55.580 --> 00:49:57.120 and Labour 2341 00:49:57.120 --> 00:49:57.860 MP in 2342 00:49:57.860 --> 00:49:58.880 his most 2343 00:49:58.880 --> 00:49:59.480 recent book, 2344 00:49:59.620 --> 00:50:00.280 makes an 2345 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:00.880 argument that 2346 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:01.480 Australia's 2347 00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:02.200 innate love 2348 00:50:02.200 --> 00:50:02.600 of equality 2349 00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:03.820 is expressed 2350 00:50:03.820 --> 00:50:04.700 very clearly 2351 00:50:04.700 --> 00:50:05.220 through our 2352 00:50:05.220 --> 00:50:06.000 sporting codes. 2353 00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:06.340 And he 2354 00:50:06.340 --> 00:50:06.840 talks about 2355 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:07.240 the fact 2356 00:50:07.240 --> 00:50:08.980 that to 2357 00:50:08.980 --> 00:50:09.720 win an 2358 00:50:09.720 --> 00:50:10.340 AFL 2359 00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:11.080 grand final, 2360 00:50:12.540 --> 00:50:13.660 the AFL 2361 00:50:13.660 --> 00:50:14.380 competition is 2362 00:50:14.380 --> 00:50:15.020 structured in 2363 00:50:15.020 --> 00:50:15.660 such a way 2364 00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:16.340 as that it 2365 00:50:16.340 --> 00:50:17.200 maximises the 2366 00:50:17.200 --> 00:50:17.920 chances of 2367 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:18.260 a different 2368 00:50:18.260 --> 00:50:18.780 winner each 2369 00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:19.520 year, as 2370 00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:20.260 opposed to 2371 00:50:20.260 --> 00:50:22.340 in the UK, 2372 00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:23.040 where, of 2373 00:50:23.040 --> 00:50:23.240 course, 2374 00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:23.600 Manchester 2375 00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:24.340 United just 2376 00:50:24.340 --> 00:50:24.740 wins time 2377 00:50:24.740 --> 00:50:25.140 after time 2378 00:50:25.140 --> 00:50:25.540 after time. 2379 00:50:25.700 --> 00:50:26.240 He says 2380 00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:27.100 also that 2381 00:50:27.100 --> 00:50:27.800 the Melbourne 2382 00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:28.460 Cup, through 2383 00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:29.240 its handicap 2384 00:50:29.240 --> 00:50:30.200 structure, is 2385 00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:31.660 infinitely more 2386 00:50:31.660 --> 00:50:32.820 geared towards 2387 00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:33.920 equality than, 2388 00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:34.320 say, the 2389 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:35.000 Kentucky Derby. 2390 00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:36.120 Also talks 2391 00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:38.120 about rugby 2392 00:50:38.120 --> 00:50:38.820 league, of 2393 00:50:38.820 --> 00:50:39.180 course, being 2394 00:50:39.180 --> 00:50:39.740 an expression 2395 00:50:39.740 --> 00:50:42.980 of league 2396 00:50:42.980 --> 00:50:43.840 players back 2397 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.140 when the 2398 00:50:44.140 --> 00:50:44.640 split happened 2399 00:50:44.640 --> 00:50:45.660 and their 2400 00:50:45.660 --> 00:50:46.600 unwillingness 2401 00:50:46.600 --> 00:50:47.260 to work for 2402 00:50:47.260 --> 00:50:47.680 no money. 2403 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.140 Like they did 2404 00:50:49.140 --> 00:50:49.900 in rugby union. 2405 00:50:50.060 --> 00:50:50.300 Anyway, 2406 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:51.460 digression, but 2407 00:50:51.460 --> 00:50:51.800 it's a good 2408 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:51.960 book. 2409 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.040 Another one 2410 00:50:54.040 --> 00:50:54.300 here. 2411 00:50:54.560 --> 00:50:55.040 Hi. 2412 00:50:55.220 --> 00:50:56.260 Recently, Nick 2413 00:50:56.260 --> 00:50:56.580 Minchin 2414 00:50:56.580 --> 00:50:57.480 criticised Tony 2415 00:50:57.480 --> 00:50:57.940 Abbott for 2416 00:50:57.940 --> 00:50:58.200 being 2417 00:50:58.200 --> 00:50:58.860 unrelentingly 2418 00:50:58.860 --> 00:50:59.480 negative, 2419 00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:01.340 but putting 2420 00:51:02.680 --> 00:51:03.480 political interest 2421 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:04.300 above national 2422 00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:04.740 interest. 2423 00:51:04.940 --> 00:51:05.320 And this seems 2424 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:05.880 to be the 2425 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:06.420 modus operandi 2426 00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:07.120 of Australian 2427 00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:07.500 politics. 2428 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:08.400 You say it's 2429 00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:08.960 white, I say 2430 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:09.320 it's black. 2431 00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:10.980 Is there a 2432 00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:11.340 better model 2433 00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:11.620 in your 2434 00:51:11.620 --> 00:51:12.760 minds about 2435 00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:13.200 how to 2436 00:51:13.200 --> 00:51:13.620 achieve a 2437 00:51:13.620 --> 00:51:14.200 more consensual 2438 00:51:14.200 --> 00:51:14.500 form of 2439 00:51:14.500 --> 00:51:14.720 government? 2440 00:51:15.380 --> 00:51:16.180 Well, I 2441 00:51:16.180 --> 00:51:16.680 would say 2442 00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:17.120 that's Nick 2443 00:51:17.120 --> 00:51:17.440 Minchin 2444 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:17.720 calling 2445 00:51:17.720 --> 00:51:18.540 the kettle 2446 00:51:18.540 --> 00:51:18.880 black, 2447 00:51:19.080 --> 00:51:19.280 whatever. 2448 00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:21.760 Just as an 2449 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:22.340 obvious and 2450 00:51:22.340 --> 00:51:22.900 easy point, 2451 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:23.260 perhaps. 2452 00:51:23.860 --> 00:51:24.680 For Nick 2453 00:51:24.680 --> 00:51:25.080 Minchin, 2454 00:51:25.180 --> 00:51:26.180 positiveness is 2455 00:51:26.780 --> 00:51:27.400 we've got to 2456 00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:27.960 go out there 2457 00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:28.500 and kick the 2458 00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:28.960 shit out of 2459 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:29.280 the trade 2460 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:29.640 unions. 2461 00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:30.220 That's a 2462 00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:31.080 positive statement. 2463 00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:32.600 And one of 2464 00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:32.860 the great 2465 00:51:32.860 --> 00:51:33.540 worries about 2466 00:51:33.540 --> 00:51:34.220 Tony Abbott 2467 00:51:34.220 --> 00:51:34.600 is that he 2468 00:51:34.600 --> 00:51:35.000 is not, 2469 00:51:35.020 --> 00:51:35.360 for those 2470 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:35.660 people, 2471 00:51:35.740 --> 00:51:36.260 showing enough 2472 00:51:36.260 --> 00:51:36.840 enthusiasm 2473 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:37.620 about kicking 2474 00:51:37.620 --> 00:51:38.000 the shit 2475 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:38.340 out of the 2476 00:51:38.340 --> 00:51:38.760 trade union 2477 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:39.060 movement. 2478 00:51:39.200 --> 00:51:39.560 But sorry, 2479 00:51:39.640 --> 00:51:39.740 Pete. 2480 00:51:40.120 --> 00:51:41.300 There are a 2481 00:51:41.300 --> 00:51:41.800 few experiments 2482 00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:42.380 going around. 2483 00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:42.660 This is like 2484 00:51:42.660 --> 00:51:43.080 a news 2485 00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:43.740 conference all 2486 00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:43.940 over again. 2487 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:46.320 Interrupt the 2488 00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:46.500 editor. 2489 00:51:46.660 --> 00:51:46.960 The editor 2490 00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:47.440 will talk 2491 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:47.700 after. 2492 00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:47.960 After David. 2493 00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:48.900 Anyway. 2494 00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:52.040 For five 2495 00:51:52.040 --> 00:51:52.360 minutes, 2496 00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:52.640 maybe. 2497 00:51:53.120 --> 00:51:53.600 Anyway. 2498 00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:55.160 There are a 2499 00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:55.940 few interesting 2500 00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:56.820 experiments going 2501 00:51:56.820 --> 00:51:57.060 around. 2502 00:51:57.460 --> 00:51:58.100 You might 2503 00:51:58.100 --> 00:51:58.460 want to look 2504 00:51:58.460 --> 00:51:58.660 up. 2505 00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:00.040 It's Canada 2506 00:52:00.040 --> 00:52:01.020 Bay Council 2507 00:52:01.020 --> 00:52:02.060 in Sydney, 2508 00:52:02.200 --> 00:52:02.580 in the west 2509 00:52:02.580 --> 00:52:03.000 of Sydney, 2510 00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:03.880 in the west 2511 00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:04.240 of Sydney, 2512 00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:05.340 where 2513 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:09.240 New Democracy 2514 00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:09.560 Foundation 2515 00:52:11.200 --> 00:52:12.160 has a 2516 00:52:13.140 --> 00:52:13.620 trialling 2517 00:52:13.620 --> 00:52:14.180 with the 2518 00:52:14.180 --> 00:52:15.080 full cooperation 2519 00:52:15.080 --> 00:52:15.360 of the 2520 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:15.680 council, 2521 00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:16.020 I think, 2522 00:52:16.020 --> 00:52:16.160 called 2523 00:52:16.160 --> 00:52:16.540 Deliberative 2524 00:52:16.540 --> 00:52:16.840 Democracy, 2525 00:52:17.080 --> 00:52:17.300 which 2526 00:52:17.300 --> 00:52:17.600 essentially 2527 00:52:17.600 --> 00:52:19.040 is a 2528 00:52:19.040 --> 00:52:19.400 random 2529 00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:20.000 picking of 2530 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:20.420 the council. 2531 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:22.880 So people 2532 00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:23.240 are picked 2533 00:52:23.240 --> 00:52:25.920 by randomness 2534 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:26.920 and it's a 2535 00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:27.740 plebiscite of 2536 00:52:28.460 --> 00:52:28.980 the taxpayers, 2537 00:52:29.220 --> 00:52:29.460 the rate 2538 00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:29.840 payers in 2539 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:30.280 that council 2540 00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:30.980 and they 2541 00:52:30.980 --> 00:52:31.500 form a 2542 00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:31.880 body. 2543 00:52:32.460 --> 00:52:33.100 This is a 2544 00:52:33.100 --> 00:52:33.620 very traditional 2545 00:52:33.620 --> 00:52:34.040 sort of, 2546 00:52:34.120 --> 00:52:34.380 and you go 2547 00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:34.760 back to 2548 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:35.340 Roman times 2549 00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:35.620 and Greek 2550 00:52:35.620 --> 00:52:35.860 times, 2551 00:52:35.940 --> 00:52:36.120 so this 2552 00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:36.300 sort of 2553 00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:36.460 stuff. 2554 00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:38.100 And there's 2555 00:52:38.100 --> 00:52:38.360 a kind of 2556 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:38.960 deliberative 2557 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:40.020 sort of 2558 00:52:40.020 --> 00:52:40.660 voting thing 2559 00:52:40.660 --> 00:52:41.040 that happens 2560 00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:41.500 within this 2561 00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:41.740 body. 2562 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:42.260 And they 2563 00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:42.820 bring up... 2564 00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:43.040 Where they 2565 00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:43.520 actually get 2566 00:52:43.520 --> 00:52:44.340 educated before 2567 00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:44.740 voting. 2568 00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:45.020 Yes, 2569 00:52:45.020 --> 00:52:45.280 they do. 2570 00:52:45.380 --> 00:52:45.780 That's right. 2571 00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:46.500 So it's 2572 00:52:46.500 --> 00:52:46.780 interesting. 2573 00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:47.140 It's worth 2574 00:52:47.140 --> 00:52:47.680 checking out. 2575 00:52:47.780 --> 00:52:48.300 It's a 2576 00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:48.360 new 2577 00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:48.720 democracy, 2578 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:49.100 isn't it? 2579 00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:49.480 New 2580 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:49.880 democracy 2581 00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:50.380 foundations. 2582 00:52:50.740 --> 00:52:51.060 Luca 2583 00:52:51.060 --> 00:52:51.960 Valgiorno 2584 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:52.240 Netas. 2585 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:52.960 Jeff 2586 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:53.340 Gallop 2587 00:52:53.340 --> 00:52:53.620 is also 2588 00:52:53.620 --> 00:52:53.860 quite 2589 00:52:53.860 --> 00:52:54.180 involved 2590 00:52:54.180 --> 00:52:54.780 in it. 2591 00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:55.940 But yeah, 2592 00:52:56.020 --> 00:52:56.220 it's a 2593 00:52:56.220 --> 00:52:56.440 way, 2594 00:52:56.640 --> 00:52:57.320 it's kind 2595 00:52:57.320 --> 00:52:57.600 of like 2596 00:52:57.600 --> 00:52:57.800 that 2597 00:52:57.800 --> 00:52:58.520 deliberative 2598 00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:00.240 convention 2599 00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.920 they had 2600 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:01.680 before the 2601 00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:02.140 republic 2602 00:53:02.140 --> 00:53:02.520 vote, 2603 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:04.060 where people 2604 00:53:04.060 --> 00:53:04.540 who don't 2605 00:53:04.540 --> 00:53:04.820 have any 2606 00:53:04.820 --> 00:53:05.480 pre-existing 2607 00:53:06.140 --> 00:53:06.700 expertise, 2608 00:53:06.980 --> 00:53:07.360 which I 2609 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:07.540 guess 2610 00:53:07.540 --> 00:53:08.280 comfortably 2611 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:09.400 includes 2612 00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:09.940 all 2613 00:53:09.940 --> 00:53:10.380 journalists 2614 00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:10.660 and all 2615 00:53:10.660 --> 00:53:11.040 politicians 2616 00:53:11.040 --> 00:53:11.500 generally, 2617 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:13.460 are hounded 2618 00:53:13.460 --> 00:53:13.740 into a 2619 00:53:13.740 --> 00:53:14.200 room and 2620 00:53:14.200 --> 00:53:15.520 then force 2621 00:53:15.520 --> 00:53:16.160 fed actual 2622 00:53:16.160 --> 00:53:16.660 information 2623 00:53:16.660 --> 00:53:17.120 and 2624 00:53:17.140 --> 00:53:17.720 aren't 2625 00:53:17.720 --> 00:53:18.200 asked their 2626 00:53:18.200 --> 00:53:18.840 opinion until 2627 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.380 after they 2628 00:53:19.380 --> 00:53:19.840 know something. 2629 00:53:20.260 --> 00:53:20.960 Apparently it 2630 00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:21.200 can work. 2631 00:53:21.220 --> 00:53:21.400 Next gentleman, 2632 00:53:21.540 --> 00:53:21.880 we'll get you 2633 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:22.180 up to 2634 00:53:22.180 --> 00:53:22.500 microphone. 2635 00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:24.940 I just 2636 00:53:24.940 --> 00:53:25.160 want to 2637 00:53:25.160 --> 00:53:25.420 talk about 2638 00:53:25.420 --> 00:53:26.180 two things 2639 00:53:26.180 --> 00:53:26.660 that concern 2640 00:53:26.660 --> 00:53:27.120 me. 2641 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:27.980 One of 2642 00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:28.200 them is 2643 00:53:28.200 --> 00:53:28.360 the 2644 00:53:29.160 --> 00:53:29.600 shallowness 2645 00:53:29.600 --> 00:53:29.780 and 2646 00:53:29.780 --> 00:53:30.200 sometimes 2647 00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:31.420 belligerent 2648 00:53:31.420 --> 00:53:32.080 debate 2649 00:53:32.080 --> 00:53:32.540 that goes 2650 00:53:32.540 --> 00:53:33.740 on within 2651 00:53:33.740 --> 00:53:34.300 politics. 2652 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:35.800 For example, 2653 00:53:35.900 --> 00:53:36.820 one example 2654 00:53:36.820 --> 00:53:37.120 that was 2655 00:53:37.120 --> 00:53:37.440 just brought 2656 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:37.740 up just 2657 00:53:37.740 --> 00:53:38.780 recently in 2658 00:53:38.780 --> 00:53:39.060 the talk 2659 00:53:39.060 --> 00:53:39.480 here was 2660 00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:40.360 that it 2661 00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:40.780 seems that 2662 00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:41.420 people seem 2663 00:53:41.420 --> 00:53:41.760 to be more 2664 00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:42.360 interested about 2665 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:43.740 some politician 2666 00:53:43.740 --> 00:53:45.020 who went on 2667 00:53:45.020 --> 00:53:45.660 a taxi ride 2668 00:53:45.660 --> 00:53:45.920 on a 2669 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:46.660 taxpayer's 2670 00:53:48.740 --> 00:53:49.700 expense as 2671 00:53:49.700 --> 00:53:50.220 opposed to 2672 00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:50.640 the changing 2673 00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:51.360 of actually 2674 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:51.840 the name 2675 00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:52.360 that we 2676 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:52.800 give to 2677 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:53.360 people who 2678 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860 come on 2679 00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:54.360 boats in 2680 00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:54.800 this country. 2681 00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:55.840 I find 2682 00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:56.280 that absolutely 2683 00:53:56.280 --> 00:53:57.580 amazing that 2684 00:53:57.580 --> 00:53:57.920 if you go 2685 00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.220 and talk 2686 00:53:58.220 --> 00:53:58.540 to people 2687 00:53:58.540 --> 00:53:58.840 out in 2688 00:53:58.840 --> 00:53:59.080 the street 2689 00:53:59.080 --> 00:53:59.280 they'll 2690 00:53:59.280 --> 00:53:59.480 have an 2691 00:53:59.480 --> 00:53:59.680 opinion 2692 00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:00.180 about the 2693 00:54:00.180 --> 00:54:00.500 fact that 2694 00:54:00.500 --> 00:54:00.760 the guy 2695 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:01.140 took a 2696 00:54:01.140 --> 00:54:01.620 taxi on 2697 00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:03.180 the fact 2698 00:54:03.180 --> 00:54:03.540 that it's 2699 00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:04.480 a taxpayer's 2700 00:54:05.040 --> 00:54:05.520 expense. 2701 00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:06.780 But people 2702 00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:07.180 coming to 2703 00:54:07.180 --> 00:54:07.720 this country 2704 00:54:07.720 --> 00:54:08.400 and risking 2705 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:08.920 their life, 2706 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:09.340 that's not 2707 00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:10.060 an agenda 2708 00:54:10.060 --> 00:54:10.460 or an 2709 00:54:10.460 --> 00:54:10.700 issue. 2710 00:54:11.380 --> 00:54:12.060 The second 2711 00:54:12.060 --> 00:54:12.520 thing is 2712 00:54:12.520 --> 00:54:12.940 I come 2713 00:54:12.940 --> 00:54:13.160 from a 2714 00:54:13.160 --> 00:54:14.240 country in 2715 00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:14.980 Europe and 2716 00:54:14.980 --> 00:54:16.500 France and 2717 00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:17.100 since I've 2718 00:54:17.100 --> 00:54:17.380 been here 2719 00:54:17.380 --> 00:54:17.540 in the 2720 00:54:17.540 --> 00:54:18.020 last 30 2721 00:54:18.020 --> 00:54:18.700 years I'm 2722 00:54:18.700 --> 00:54:19.520 surprised at 2723 00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:19.900 sometimes, 2724 00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:21.640 just recently 2725 00:54:21.640 --> 00:54:22.100 I went to 2726 00:54:22.100 --> 00:54:22.840 a march 2727 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:24.300 down on 2728 00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:24.780 North Terrace 2729 00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:25.740 about the 2730 00:54:25.740 --> 00:54:26.460 state of 2731 00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:27.120 refugees just 2732 00:54:27.120 --> 00:54:27.460 before the 2733 00:54:27.460 --> 00:54:28.380 elections and 2734 00:54:28.380 --> 00:54:28.680 there was a 2735 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:29.240 gentleman who 2736 00:54:29.240 --> 00:54:30.080 came up and 2737 00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:30.620 talked really 2738 00:54:30.620 --> 00:54:30.960 well. 2739 00:54:31.060 --> 00:54:31.400 I was very 2740 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:31.820 impressed with 2741 00:54:31.820 --> 00:54:32.060 the way he 2742 00:54:32.060 --> 00:54:32.360 talked. 2743 00:54:32.500 --> 00:54:33.180 He sounded 2744 00:54:33.180 --> 00:54:34.480 passionate and 2745 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:35.300 after the 2746 00:54:36.020 --> 00:54:37.140 talk I 2747 00:54:37.140 --> 00:54:37.840 heard people 2748 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:38.860 saying that 2749 00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:39.540 he sounded 2750 00:54:39.540 --> 00:54:39.960 like a 2751 00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:40.640 troublemaker, 2752 00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:41.660 that he 2753 00:54:41.660 --> 00:54:42.320 sounded like 2754 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:42.560 a 2755 00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:43.200 revolutionary. 2756 00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:44.420 And I 2757 00:54:44.420 --> 00:54:44.860 wonder whether 2758 00:54:44.860 --> 00:54:45.420 Australians 2759 00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:45.800 actually 2760 00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:46.340 confused 2761 00:54:46.340 --> 00:54:47.040 ! 2762 00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.480 with 2763 00:54:50.120 --> 00:54:50.740 troublemaking 2764 00:54:50.740 --> 00:54:51.060 and 2765 00:54:51.060 --> 00:54:51.500 revolutionary 2766 00:54:51.500 --> 00:54:53.140 because this 2767 00:54:53.140 --> 00:54:53.620 is what I 2768 00:54:53.620 --> 00:54:54.200 fail to 2769 00:54:54.200 --> 00:54:55.020 hear in 2770 00:54:55.020 --> 00:54:55.320 Australian 2771 00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:56.780 politics is 2772 00:54:56.780 --> 00:54:57.320 passion. 2773 00:54:57.880 --> 00:54:58.840 And I 2774 00:54:58.840 --> 00:54:59.280 don't know if 2775 00:54:59.280 --> 00:54:59.620 it's just 2776 00:54:59.620 --> 00:55:00.120 me but it 2777 00:55:00.120 --> 00:55:00.780 seems it's 2778 00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:01.320 something we 2779 00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:02.600 all need to 2780 00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:03.520 wake up to. 2781 00:55:06.700 --> 00:55:07.940 What do 2782 00:55:07.940 --> 00:55:08.220 you think? 2783 00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:09.540 On your 2784 00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:10.060 first point, 2785 00:55:10.180 --> 00:55:11.220 I think one 2786 00:55:11.220 --> 00:55:12.420 of the real 2787 00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:13.200 virtues of 2788 00:55:13.200 --> 00:55:13.860 democracy and 2789 00:55:13.860 --> 00:55:14.280 something that 2790 00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:15.000 it's worth 2791 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:16.020 remembering all 2792 00:55:16.020 --> 00:55:16.820 the time is 2793 00:55:16.820 --> 00:55:17.780 that it is 2794 00:55:17.780 --> 00:55:18.840 every voter's 2795 00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:19.720 prerogative to 2796 00:55:19.720 --> 00:55:20.880 get upset or 2797 00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:21.740 interested in or 2798 00:55:21.740 --> 00:55:22.420 passionate about 2799 00:55:22.420 --> 00:55:23.080 whatever they 2800 00:55:23.080 --> 00:55:23.340 want. 2801 00:55:23.540 --> 00:55:24.000 I mean that is 2802 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:24.520 part of the 2803 00:55:24.520 --> 00:55:24.820 deal. 2804 00:55:25.180 --> 00:55:26.440 And when I 2805 00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:26.880 hear people 2806 00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:27.440 sort of talking 2807 00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:27.820 about the 2808 00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:28.280 modern media 2809 00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.860 environment, 2810 00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:29.400 talking about 2811 00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:29.760 it's all 2812 00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:30.460 stupid and 2813 00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:30.880 people aren't 2814 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:31.480 engaged enough 2815 00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:31.940 and people 2816 00:55:31.940 --> 00:55:32.420 are interested 2817 00:55:33.100 --> 00:55:33.500 in the wrong 2818 00:55:33.500 --> 00:55:34.080 things, I 2819 00:55:34.080 --> 00:55:34.360 just think 2820 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:34.560 well, 2821 00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:35.320 you know, 2822 00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:35.720 this is 2823 00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:37.820 the story 2824 00:55:37.820 --> 00:55:38.440 of democracy 2825 00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:39.320 is an 2826 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:40.120 evolving one. 2827 00:55:40.300 --> 00:55:40.400 You know, 2828 00:55:40.460 --> 00:55:40.880 it started 2829 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:41.540 even at 2830 00:55:41.540 --> 00:55:41.980 Westminster 2831 00:55:41.980 --> 00:55:42.720 barely a 2832 00:55:42.720 --> 00:55:43.020 couple of 2833 00:55:43.020 --> 00:55:43.660 centuries ago 2834 00:55:43.660 --> 00:55:44.320 where journalists 2835 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:44.840 weren't even 2836 00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:45.620 allowed into 2837 00:55:45.620 --> 00:55:46.920 watch parliament 2838 00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:47.700 happening, you 2839 00:55:47.700 --> 00:55:47.800 know. 2840 00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:48.760 The availability 2841 00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:49.440 of information 2842 00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:50.420 is an 2843 00:55:50.420 --> 00:55:51.200 evolving story. 2844 00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:52.600 The capacity 2845 00:55:52.600 --> 00:55:53.620 for people 2846 00:55:53.620 --> 00:55:54.440 to A, 2847 00:55:54.500 --> 00:55:55.040 have a vote 2848 00:55:55.040 --> 00:55:56.280 and use it 2849 00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:56.640 the way that 2850 00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:57.460 they like and 2851 00:55:57.460 --> 00:55:58.080 get interested 2852 00:55:58.080 --> 00:55:58.880 in the things 2853 00:55:58.880 --> 00:55:59.720 that motivate 2854 00:55:59.720 --> 00:56:00.200 and interest 2855 00:56:00.200 --> 00:56:01.120 them is an 2856 00:56:01.120 --> 00:56:02.000 evolving story. 2857 00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:03.100 I never hear 2858 00:56:03.100 --> 00:56:04.380 somebody carrying 2859 00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:04.720 on about 2860 00:56:04.720 --> 00:56:05.260 something and 2861 00:56:05.260 --> 00:56:05.720 think well, 2862 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:06.680 you're stupid 2863 00:56:06.680 --> 00:56:07.280 to be interested 2864 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:07.720 in that. 2865 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:08.280 I just think 2866 00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:08.680 that people 2867 00:56:08.680 --> 00:56:09.220 come to 2868 00:56:09.220 --> 00:56:10.300 politics with 2869 00:56:10.300 --> 00:56:10.720 their own 2870 00:56:10.720 --> 00:56:11.860 perspectives and 2871 00:56:11.860 --> 00:56:12.360 part of 2872 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:13.420 democracy is 2873 00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:13.960 that we don't 2874 00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:14.540 dismiss the 2875 00:56:14.540 --> 00:56:15.020 things that 2876 00:56:15.020 --> 00:56:15.480 other people 2877 00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:16.160 think are 2878 00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:16.540 important. 2879 00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:17.780 The democratic 2880 00:56:17.780 --> 00:56:18.780 process is 2881 00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:19.780 supposed to be 2882 00:56:19.780 --> 00:56:20.740 about finding 2883 00:56:20.740 --> 00:56:21.240 out about 2884 00:56:21.240 --> 00:56:21.900 those things 2885 00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:22.940 and settling 2886 00:56:22.940 --> 00:56:23.960 them fairly 2887 00:56:23.960 --> 00:56:24.900 and proportionately. 2888 00:56:25.200 --> 00:56:25.960 One of the 2889 00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:26.500 first things 2890 00:56:26.500 --> 00:56:26.920 that Tony 2891 00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:27.260 Abbott said 2892 00:56:27.260 --> 00:56:28.920 after he 2893 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:29.380 became prime 2894 00:56:29.380 --> 00:56:29.700 minister, 2895 00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:30.800 I think it 2896 00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:30.980 was the 2897 00:56:30.980 --> 00:56:31.480 Monday after, 2898 00:56:32.300 --> 00:56:32.560 he said 2899 00:56:32.560 --> 00:56:32.980 happy is 2900 00:56:32.980 --> 00:56:33.380 the nation 2901 00:56:33.380 --> 00:56:33.740 that is 2902 00:56:33.740 --> 00:56:34.260 more interested 2903 00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:35.060 in sport 2904 00:56:35.060 --> 00:56:35.700 than politics. 2905 00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:37.660 We fact 2906 00:56:37.660 --> 00:56:38.120 checked that 2907 00:56:38.120 --> 00:56:39.680 in PolitiFact 2908 00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:40.400 and we found 2909 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:40.880 that to be 2910 00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:41.500 true actually 2911 00:56:41.500 --> 00:56:42.160 but you'll be 2912 00:56:42.160 --> 00:56:42.860 shocked to hear 2913 00:56:42.860 --> 00:56:43.020 that. 2914 00:56:43.300 --> 00:56:44.000 But my 2915 00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:44.740 personal response 2916 00:56:44.740 --> 00:56:45.220 to that is 2917 00:56:45.220 --> 00:56:45.800 holy crap. 2918 00:56:47.220 --> 00:56:47.800 Let's get 2919 00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:48.080 angry. 2920 00:56:49.540 --> 00:56:50.020 Another 2921 00:56:50.020 --> 00:56:50.300 question. 2922 00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:51.820 So how do 2923 00:56:51.820 --> 00:56:52.180 we make 2924 00:56:52.180 --> 00:56:52.640 reasonable 2925 00:56:52.640 --> 00:56:53.800 debate and 2926 00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:55.000 discussion the 2927 00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:55.240 norm? 2928 00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:55.780 So as you 2929 00:56:55.780 --> 00:56:56.240 said people 2930 00:56:56.240 --> 00:56:57.220 want policy 2931 00:56:57.220 --> 00:56:58.500 over personality 2932 00:56:58.500 --> 00:56:59.300 but that never 2933 00:56:59.300 --> 00:56:59.820 seems to be 2934 00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.180 the case. 2935 00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:00.560 It doesn't 2936 00:57:00.560 --> 00:57:01.420 excite people 2937 00:57:01.420 --> 00:57:02.360 and it seems 2938 00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:02.820 that the only 2939 00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:03.540 way to be 2940 00:57:03.540 --> 00:57:04.100 heard on 2941 00:57:04.100 --> 00:57:04.880 politics is 2942 00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:06.000 to get angry 2943 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:06.700 and be vicious 2944 00:57:06.700 --> 00:57:07.340 a lot of the 2945 00:57:07.340 --> 00:57:07.640 time. 2946 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:08.960 Well, 2947 00:57:10.740 --> 00:57:11.360 there's not 2948 00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:11.820 one debate 2949 00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:12.440 going on. 2950 00:57:12.560 --> 00:57:12.760 There are 2951 00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:13.200 many, many 2952 00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:13.900 debates going 2953 00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:14.220 on. 2954 00:57:14.380 --> 00:57:14.980 I mean here 2955 00:57:14.980 --> 00:57:15.620 we are this 2956 00:57:15.620 --> 00:57:16.180 morning having 2957 00:57:16.180 --> 00:57:17.000 this intensely 2958 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:17.580 civilised 2959 00:57:17.580 --> 00:57:19.460 debate and 2960 00:57:21.140 --> 00:57:22.380 elsewhere people 2961 00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:22.920 are reading 2962 00:57:23.560 --> 00:57:24.780 newspapers and 2963 00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:26.040 the rubbish 2964 00:57:26.040 --> 00:57:26.540 end of the 2965 00:57:26.540 --> 00:57:27.160 papers perhaps 2966 00:57:27.160 --> 00:57:28.960 and neglecting 2967 00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:29.220 the good 2968 00:57:29.220 --> 00:57:29.600 end of the 2969 00:57:29.600 --> 00:57:29.880 papers. 2970 00:57:29.980 --> 00:57:30.840 But that's 2971 00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:31.680 just the way 2972 00:57:31.680 --> 00:57:32.040 it is. 2973 00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:34.080 I think 2974 00:57:34.080 --> 00:57:34.860 that one of 2975 00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:35.700 the ways in 2976 00:57:35.700 --> 00:57:36.260 which debate 2977 00:57:36.260 --> 00:57:37.000 gets better 2978 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:37.500 in this 2979 00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:39.080 country is 2980 00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:40.220 if political 2981 00:57:40.220 --> 00:57:40.920 parties 2982 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:41.360 themselves 2983 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:43.560 allow the 2984 00:57:43.560 --> 00:57:44.280 debates that 2985 00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:44.860 go on, 2986 00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:45.840 within them, 2987 00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:47.080 to become 2988 00:57:47.680 --> 00:57:47.800 public. 2989 00:57:48.380 --> 00:57:49.560 And one of 2990 00:57:49.560 --> 00:57:50.320 the things I 2991 00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:50.900 found very 2992 00:57:50.900 --> 00:57:51.820 impressive about 2993 00:57:51.820 --> 00:57:52.860 Julia Gillard's 2994 00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:54.080 big farewell 2995 00:57:54.080 --> 00:57:54.860 piece in 2996 00:57:54.860 --> 00:57:55.280 The Guardian 2997 00:57:56.300 --> 00:57:57.580 was her 2998 00:57:57.580 --> 00:57:58.120 suggestion 2999 00:57:59.220 --> 00:58:00.560 that leadership 3000 00:58:02.500 --> 00:58:03.180 contests, 3001 00:58:03.180 --> 00:58:03.560 which had 3002 00:58:03.560 --> 00:58:04.540 dominated the 3003 00:58:04.540 --> 00:58:05.080 front pages 3004 00:58:05.080 --> 00:58:05.960 for so much 3005 00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:06.500 of her time 3006 00:58:06.500 --> 00:58:06.880 as Prime 3007 00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:07.260 Minister, 3008 00:58:07.580 --> 00:58:08.900 be held in 3009 00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:10.240 private and 3010 00:58:10.240 --> 00:58:11.020 policy debates, 3011 00:58:11.380 --> 00:58:11.840 which never 3012 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:12.440 seem to get 3013 00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:13.020 onto the front 3014 00:58:13.020 --> 00:58:13.460 pages, 3015 00:58:14.220 --> 00:58:14.620 should be held 3016 00:58:14.620 --> 00:58:15.040 in public. 3017 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:16.720 To do this, 3018 00:58:16.740 --> 00:58:18.100 we the press 3019 00:58:18.620 --> 00:58:19.360 have to change 3020 00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:20.340 a fundamental 3021 00:58:21.380 --> 00:58:22.140 attitude to 3022 00:58:22.140 --> 00:58:22.980 political parties. 3023 00:58:23.220 --> 00:58:24.400 And we have to 3024 00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:25.240 stop reporting 3025 00:58:26.040 --> 00:58:26.840 as dissent 3026 00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:28.220 and indiscipline 3027 00:58:29.080 --> 00:58:30.160 contests of 3028 00:58:30.160 --> 00:58:31.040 ideas that 3029 00:58:31.040 --> 00:58:32.080 occur within 3030 00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:32.660 the parties 3031 00:58:32.660 --> 00:58:33.020 themselves. 3032 00:58:33.980 --> 00:58:35.640 If that could 3033 00:58:35.640 --> 00:58:37.900 begin, we 3034 00:58:37.900 --> 00:58:38.960 could begin to 3035 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:40.140 have really 3036 00:58:40.140 --> 00:58:40.960 wonderful 3037 00:58:41.540 --> 00:58:42.480 public discussion 3038 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.480 in this country, 3039 00:58:43.620 --> 00:58:44.600 because we're not 3040 00:58:44.600 --> 00:58:45.600 looking to 3041 00:58:46.600 --> 00:58:46.840 throw out 3042 00:58:47.540 --> 00:58:47.720 the 3043 00:58:48.940 --> 00:58:49.520 largest 3044 00:58:49.520 --> 00:58:49.820 information 3045 00:58:49.820 --> 00:58:50.000 into the 3046 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:50.240 largest 3047 00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:50.840 system 3048 00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:51.000 system 3049 00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:51.520 By 3050 00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:04.960 By 3051 00:59:09.680 --> 00:59:10.260 ! 3052 00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:11.100 ! 3053 00:59:11.100 --> 00:59:11.380 By 3054 00:59:14.700 --> 00:59:21.840 policy, it's very easy to write as a journalist a story about that policy that starts, backbencher 3055 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:24.540 X has embarrassed his or her... 3056 00:59:24.540 --> 00:59:24.560 Breaks ranks. 3057 00:59:24.600 --> 00:59:26.340 Breaks ranks with or... 3058 00:59:26.340 --> 00:59:27.280 Embarrasses. 3059 00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:27.580 Yes. 3060 00:59:27.700 --> 00:59:28.000 Yeah. 3061 00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.820 And that is a fast story to write. 3062 00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:34.860 And that is the way the story often gets written. 3063 00:59:35.080 --> 00:59:40.120 And I think that's unfortunate because it A, makes for a very formulaic story because 3064 00:59:40.120 --> 00:59:41.180 they're always the same. 3065 00:59:41.180 --> 00:59:44.340 Backbencher humiliates his own party. 3066 00:59:44.720 --> 00:59:48.940 Backbencher arrives at Parliament House through car park and is immediately clubbed to death. 3067 00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:50.940 You know. 3068 00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:53.620 And it also... 3069 00:59:54.580 --> 01:00:00.080 You know, politicians learn so economically and quickly from the misfortunes that they 3070 01:00:00.080 --> 01:00:01.260 see occurring to their colleagues. 3071 01:00:01.600 --> 01:00:06.140 And next thing you know, no backbencher will ever say boo to a goose. 3072 01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:07.880 And I think that that's a tragedy. 3073 01:00:08.180 --> 01:00:09.520 Just our final question here. 3074 01:00:09.600 --> 01:00:10.780 This lady's been waiting patiently. 3075 01:00:11.180 --> 01:00:11.960 Thank you. 3076 01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:19.680 I was actually very alarmed when Nicola Roxson came out with an alert that Rasputin's body 3077 01:00:19.680 --> 01:00:20.680 was actually stirring. 3078 01:00:21.100 --> 01:00:26.820 And I found it really alarming, the fact that almost... 3079 01:00:27.460 --> 01:00:35.560 There was almost no analysis of her speech except by perhaps Bernard Keane, who described 3080 01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:39.640 it as a whine and said it was historical revisionism. 3081 01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:40.880 Now, no... 3082 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:41.160 No... 3083 01:00:41.160 --> 01:00:41.860 No way. 3084 01:00:52.700 --> 01:00:53.320 No way. 3085 01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:54.660 No way. 3086 01:00:54.660 --> 01:00:56.020 No way. 3087 01:00:56.020 --> 01:00:56.060 No way. 3088 01:00:56.260 --> 01:00:57.040 No way. 3089 01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:57.960 No way. 3090 01:00:58.920 --> 01:00:59.440 No way. 3091 01:00:59.440 --> 01:00:59.820 No way. 3092 01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:01.240 No way. 3093 01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:02.000 No way. 3094 01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:03.080 No way. 3095 01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:03.920 No way. 3096 01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:04.120 No way. 3097 01:01:04.120 --> 01:01:04.360 No way. 3098 01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:04.380 No way. 3099 01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:05.660 No way. 3100 01:01:05.660 --> 01:01:06.140 No way. 3101 01:01:06.260 --> 01:01:06.920 No way. 3102 01:01:07.180 --> 01:01:09.160 No way. 3103 01:01:09.160 --> 01:01:10.140 felt that that was inadequate. 3104 01:01:10.560 --> 01:01:12.960 So the reports were allowed to run 3105 01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:14.120 without any analysis 3106 01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:16.960 of what 3107 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:18.660 was a pan of 3108 01:01:19.560 --> 01:01:20.080 hate. 3109 01:01:21.220 --> 01:01:22.660 Perhaps we're just exhausted. 3110 01:01:23.080 --> 01:01:25.040 Yeah, that was my response. 3111 01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:25.660 Labour 3112 01:01:27.220 --> 01:01:28.240 fratricide. We're over it. 3113 01:01:29.600 --> 01:01:30.120 Sororicide. 3114 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:31.380 I mean, 3115 01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:34.920 eventually the media does get bored and the 3116 01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:36.920 media does move on. And, you know, the big 3117 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:38.820 story really now should be about the new government. 3118 01:01:39.560 --> 01:01:41.120 Really, I'm sick 3119 01:01:41.120 --> 01:01:42.860 of the garment rending around the Labour Party. 3120 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:45.040 It's frankly tedious and it's not where 3121 01:01:45.040 --> 01:01:46.920 we're at. Let them go away for a couple of years 3122 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:48.960 and lick their wounds and come back with a better 3123 01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:50.620 story to sell us. Not my view. 3124 01:01:50.780 --> 01:01:52.780 I think the continuing presence 3125 01:01:52.780 --> 01:01:55.000 of Rudd inside the Labour caucus 3126 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:56.280 is very interesting. 3127 01:01:57.520 --> 01:01:58.980 And there were so many 3128 01:01:58.980 --> 01:02:01.000 times during the life of the Gillard government 3129 01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:02.980 where so many people 3130 01:02:02.980 --> 01:02:04.960 thought, well, that's it. That's over 3131 01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:06.980 now. And then the press would 3132 01:02:06.980 --> 01:02:08.680 start writing about Rudd stirring 3133 01:02:08.680 --> 01:02:10.360 there would be screams 3134 01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:12.820 of complaints about the press. Why doesn't 3135 01:02:12.820 --> 01:02:14.180 the press leave this story alone? 3136 01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:16.800 The press was right to be writing about 3137 01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:18.820 Rudd stirring. I saw quite 3138 01:02:18.820 --> 01:02:20.460 a lot of analysis of Roxson's speech. 3139 01:02:20.820 --> 01:02:21.920 I think it was 3140 01:02:23.100 --> 01:02:24.740 analysed. But I do 3141 01:02:24.740 --> 01:02:26.840 think we are weary. We're terribly 3142 01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:28.300 terribly weary of this story. 3143 01:02:28.460 --> 01:02:30.760 But I'll tell you who's not weary of this story. 3144 01:02:31.060 --> 01:02:31.940 Kevin Rudd. 3145 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:36.440 That's a perfect way to finish. 3146 01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:38.180 Mr President, 3147 01:02:38.200 --> 01:02:38.660 please. 3148 01:02:38.660 --> 01:02:39.180 Ladies and gentlemen. 3149 01:02:39.200 --> 01:02:44.540 We have to conclude our conversation 3150 01:02:44.540 --> 01:02:46.440 here, unfortunately. But 3151 01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:48.940 can we please thank our panellists. 3152 01:02:49.100 --> 01:02:50.080 Annabel Crabb, 3153 01:02:50.980 --> 01:02:52.900 Peter Frey, Gideon Hague 3154 01:02:52.900 --> 01:02:54.520 and David Marr. 3155 01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:55.720 Thank you. 3156 01:03:09.020 --> 01:03:16.860 On the phone by the way, by the way, 3157 01:03:16.860 --> 01:03:18.080 Thank you.