WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.820 Welcome to the Adelaide Festival of Ideas, if this is your first session you've come to. 2 00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:06.340 If it's not, then even better, welcome back. 3 00:00:07.100 --> 00:00:13.360 My name's Ian Gibbons, I'm Professor of Anatomy down here at Flinders University down the road. 4 00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:18.860 And we're on this session here on the business of death, 5 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:21.180 a wonderful thing to talk about on a Saturday afternoon. 6 00:00:21.740 --> 00:00:26.240 Just come from a session about how the brain does dance, which is the other end of the spectrum. 7 00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:34.220 This session is proudly sponsored by the South Australian Government Health Department, 8 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:39.760 in particular the Office of Ageing, and in collaboration with the Adelaide Film Festival. 9 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.300 And we'll see as we go through why they're so involved in this, 10 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:47.420 because we have two filmmakers with us today to talk about their work. 11 00:00:49.060 --> 00:00:54.960 As is traditional here for the Adelaide Festival of Ideas and most other organisations around town, 12 00:00:55.160 --> 00:00:56.220 we acknowledge the time. 13 00:00:56.220 --> 00:01:01.220 that today we're on the traditional country of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains and we 14 00:01:01.220 --> 00:01:06.060 recognise and respect their cultural heritage, their beliefs and their long-standing relationships 15 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:11.100 with the land. And we acknowledge the continuing importance of the Kaurna people living today 16 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:16.360 and respect their elders past and present. And so in the words of the Kaurna, Namani, welcome. 17 00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:26.300 A bit of housekeeping, as you all should know by now, make sure your mobile phones are on silent 18 00:01:26.300 --> 00:01:31.300 or airplane mode or your battery's gone flat or something like that. If someone's phone does go 19 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:34.800 off, everybody's going to look around and point at you and say what an idiot you are. 20 00:01:37.380 --> 00:01:44.720 It's happened to me, I know what it feels like. On the other hand, if you're into the social media 21 00:01:44.720 --> 00:01:46.340 and you're tweeting and you're reading, you're going to find a lot of people who are 22 00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:48.740 letting people know what's going on around the place. We're perfectly happy for you to do that. 23 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:55.160 And the tweet handle is at ADLFOI and the hashtag is the same thing, hashtag ADLFOI. 24 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.500 And if you do Instagram or that sort of stuff, that's the same sort of thing. 25 00:01:57.700 --> 00:02:05.180 But, but, but, you can't record the session. But these sessions are being recorded by Radio Adelaide 26 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:09.920 and down here. And at some stage, some of this is being broadcast, some of it will be 27 00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:15.700 be retransmitted, be available as a podcast. So we're going to start the session off in a minute. 28 00:02:16.380 --> 00:02:20.680 We'll have two speakers tell you what they're going to be talking about. We'll introduce them in a sec. 29 00:02:20.980 --> 00:02:27.500 But just to remind you that at the end, there'll be plenty of time to have questions and discussion 30 00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:32.620 from the audience. But we'd like you to ask a question, not get up on a grandstand and give 31 00:02:32.620 --> 00:02:36.720 your version of how you think the world works. As much as that's interesting, but we'd love the 32 00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:41.220 chance for people to have a go. And we'll give you plenty of time for doing that. We've got to be out 33 00:02:41.220 --> 00:02:46.320 of here right on time at the end so that the crew can get set up for the next session, which will be in here. 34 00:02:46.820 --> 00:02:55.740 So what are we doing today? The bussiness of death? And to quote the blurb in the program? 35 00:02:56.100 --> 00:03:00.220 No one wants to talk about it? We're all going to have to do it sooner or later? Which is a pretty good phrase? 36 00:03:00.220 --> 00:03:05.720 and we've got two amazing people to talk to us today. 37 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:08.960 So Lynette Woolworth and Charlie Cooke, 38 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.560 in a different ways, are experts, 39 00:03:12.700 --> 00:03:17.920 or well-versed with things to do with matters of dying. 40 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.020 And both of them, as I said before, have made films, 41 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.880 worked on film productions associated with the process of death. 42 00:03:25.100 --> 00:03:27.020 And me, as a professor of anatomy, 43 00:03:27.220 --> 00:03:29.260 it's something I do for my job. 44 00:03:29.260 --> 00:03:31.360 It's a bizarre and strange and wonderful thing. 45 00:03:32.220 --> 00:03:36.220 It's an amazing thing, dealing with the gift of dead bodies 46 00:03:36.220 --> 00:03:39.680 and using that for educating doctors and nurses and physios 47 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.220 and scientists and everybody else. 48 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.700 So I was very pleased to be asked to chair this session 49 00:03:45.700 --> 00:03:47.840 to see the other side of it. 50 00:03:48.540 --> 00:03:52.300 I see the one end of it in my professional life. 51 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.900 So what we're going to see today is some extraordinary work, 52 00:03:55.940 --> 00:03:58.880 some extraordinary people telling you about 53 00:03:58.880 --> 00:03:59.240 the history of the body, 54 00:03:59.260 --> 00:04:00.220 the lead-up to those events. 55 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:05.200 So first up, I'd like to introduce Lynette Woolworth. 56 00:04:05.440 --> 00:04:09.680 And she's a visual artist working in film and related technologies. 57 00:04:10.200 --> 00:04:12.420 And she's got a very distinguished career, 58 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:13.940 which I won't go through in details, 59 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:18.760 but she's had films all around the world 60 00:04:18.760 --> 00:04:20.380 on a whole range of different topics. 61 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:24.120 And part of the reason she's in this session 62 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:28.880 is the film Tender was a documentary film 63 00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:29.240 that was made in the early 90s. 64 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.560 And it's a film that opened last week. 65 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:33.040 Monday night, yep. 66 00:04:33.200 --> 00:04:34.900 And it's on again tomorrow, before I forget. 67 00:04:35.760 --> 00:04:36.900 Just after 12 o'clock tomorrow. 68 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:38.960 It's part of the film festival. 69 00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:41.740 So I'm not going to say anything about it. 70 00:04:41.940 --> 00:04:44.200 I've seen the film and it's a wonderful thing. 71 00:04:44.380 --> 00:04:46.440 And I think it's been much better to hand over to Lynette 72 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:50.080 to tell us about Tender and the experiences of doing that. 73 00:04:52.080 --> 00:04:54.320 You want to use this or you want to sit down? 74 00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:55.360 OK, yeah. 75 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.440 I'm going to sit here because I'm going to show you 76 00:04:57.440 --> 00:04:58.840 some vision from the film. 77 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.200 And I'd love you to be able to see it. 78 00:05:02.580 --> 00:05:04.240 I'm not an expert on death. 79 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.860 I'm a video artist and a filmmaker, 80 00:05:07.020 --> 00:05:11.360 but I found out about a small community in New South Wales 81 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.060 who decided that they wanted to become involved 82 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:17.540 in doing their own funerals. 83 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.420 They're from an area sort of south of Wollongong. 84 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:26.060 Basically, they felt, one, 85 00:05:26.140 --> 00:05:28.940 that they were paying more than they could afford often. 86 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:30.060 They felt that they were being given the time 87 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:30.560 to farewell someone. 88 00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:35.200 And secondly, they felt that they weren't given the time 89 00:05:35.200 --> 00:05:36.760 that they needed to say goodbye. 90 00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:41.400 And those two things really combined to make them start 91 00:05:41.400 --> 00:05:42.760 to ask questions about whether 92 00:05:42.760 --> 00:05:45.840 or not they could do the farewelling 93 00:05:45.840 --> 00:05:47.500 of the people they loved in a way 94 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:48.780 that made them feel complete. 95 00:05:50.380 --> 00:05:51.720 Where they felt that they participated 96 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:55.320 and where they felt they did everything that they could do. 97 00:05:56.180 --> 00:05:59.020 So that they weren't just minding the person 98 00:05:59.020 --> 00:05:59.220 on the other side. 99 00:05:59.240 --> 00:05:59.860 and they were there for them until they died. 100 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:05.600 But they cared for them until their body was given to the earth 101 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.000 or placed in the cremation. 102 00:06:09.260 --> 00:06:12.660 And you can imagine that for them, this little group of people 103 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:16.500 who, like me, have no knowledge of what is involved in that, 104 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:19.020 they had to learn a lot. 105 00:06:19.820 --> 00:06:24.740 And fortunately, they let my camera be there whilst they made 106 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:25.320 their discoveries. 107 00:06:26.860 --> 00:06:29.220 I find them extraordinary. 108 00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:33.620 extraordinarily brave, but they probably wouldn't like that word. 109 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:35.580 They're very, very down-to-earth people. 110 00:06:35.880 --> 00:06:39.100 And I think that's why what they have learnt is useful. 111 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.000 Tender, for me, is a document. 112 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.700 In some ways, it's more of a document than a film. 113 00:06:46.880 --> 00:06:48.500 It holds a lot of knowledge. 114 00:06:48.940 --> 00:06:51.020 For those questions you might ask 115 00:06:51.020 --> 00:06:54.720 that you wouldn't know who to ask those questions of. 116 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:58.920 And for the answers that, at the time you need them, 117 00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:03.660 you might be too upset and too heartbroken to be able to hear. 118 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:08.160 So tenders existing so that beforehand, 119 00:07:09.220 --> 00:07:12.620 this group of people can show you what they had to go through 120 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:14.880 to do their very first funeral. 121 00:07:15.880 --> 00:07:17.140 It's not perfect. 122 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:18.940 It's imperfect. 123 00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:23.300 It's as beautifully imperfect as we all are. 124 00:07:23.940 --> 00:07:28.680 But the wonderful thing is that they take up the challenge 125 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:29.200 of what they want to do. 126 00:07:29.220 --> 00:07:33.880 because they want to take hold of this part of life. 127 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.360 They don't want it professionalised for them. 128 00:07:38.940 --> 00:07:42.220 They want to be able to do everything they can. 129 00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:44.560 So I might show you the first clip, 130 00:07:44.620 --> 00:07:49.000 which will give you a little bit of an idea of one version of a funeral, 131 00:07:49.080 --> 00:07:53.140 probably gives you some sense of why this group decided 132 00:07:53.140 --> 00:07:55.660 that they needed another option on funerals. 133 00:07:55.660 --> 00:08:00.680 So you'll hear Misty talking about her grandfather's funeral. 134 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:29.320 Brother and sister, we were organising my grandfather's funeral. 135 00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:32.500 Hi, how are you? I'm good, thank you. 136 00:08:32.780 --> 00:08:36.040 And when we talked about who was doing eulogies, 137 00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:37.920 you only had five minutes. 138 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.620 You could only do your photo spread for one song. 139 00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:45.680 And, I mean, here's this man who died at 80 years old 140 00:08:45.680 --> 00:08:50.520 who has that many newspaper clippings and certificates and medals 141 00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:54.700 and, you know, just accolades of things that he's done in 80 years. 142 00:08:55.880 --> 00:08:59.000 And then family and stuff that, you know, 143 00:08:59.020 --> 00:09:01.880 how can you put that into two and a half minutes, you know? 144 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:05.680 So Misty had the kind of funeral that many of us have been to, 145 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.200 officiated by someone who didn't know her grandfather, 146 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:15.740 in a crematorium where they had no association previously, 147 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.160 and given a time frame that was insufficient 148 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:23.380 to do the farewelling that that family needed to do 149 00:09:23.380 --> 00:09:24.960 so that they felt... 150 00:09:25.660 --> 00:09:27.680 they had sent off the grandfather in a way 151 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:30.900 that made their grief somehow less. 152 00:09:32.800 --> 00:09:34.880 I can't imagine the pressure on her. 153 00:09:34.940 --> 00:09:38.360 She was one of the two people who was asked to speak for two and a half minutes. 154 00:09:39.300 --> 00:09:42.720 To rush and speak for her whole family 155 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:44.780 in that tiny amount of time, 156 00:09:45.660 --> 00:09:49.880 knowing that someone was going to call her off that lectern 157 00:09:49.880 --> 00:09:51.480 when her time was up. 158 00:09:53.860 --> 00:09:55.500 This film is full of... 159 00:09:55.660 --> 00:09:57.200 other stories like that. 160 00:09:57.340 --> 00:09:59.200 Not just of the time, 161 00:09:59.260 --> 00:10:02.040 although I think the time frame is one of the biggest things, 162 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:05.020 but of the sense of... 163 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:09.900 the pressure on people to rush the experience. 164 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:13.060 And in the rushing, there's a disconnect. 165 00:10:14.300 --> 00:10:17.000 And the disconnect often leaves people with a grief 166 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.780 that goes on maybe for longer than it needed to, 167 00:10:20.900 --> 00:10:22.920 had everything flowed, 168 00:10:23.500 --> 00:10:25.320 and had everyone been able to... 169 00:10:25.660 --> 00:10:28.280 do all that they could do or needed to do 170 00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:30.220 to let the person go. 171 00:10:31.700 --> 00:10:34.680 So in contrast, the next clip I'm going to show you 172 00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:37.680 is where the community bring in a mentor. 173 00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:39.380 And her name is Zenith Farago, 174 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:42.900 and she's from the Natural Death Centre in New South Wales. 175 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.220 And Zenith has been doing community funerals 176 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:49.660 in her region for over 20 years. 177 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:52.300 So Zenith comes in and talks to them 178 00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:54.900 about the possibilities for doing their own funerals. 179 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:58.040 And she talks them through a funeral that she's done. 180 00:10:58.280 --> 00:11:01.640 So you will watch the community now 181 00:11:01.640 --> 00:11:03.680 watching Zenith tell them 182 00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:07.520 about another possibility for a farewell. 183 00:11:07.660 --> 00:11:09.680 So we might show that clip now. 184 00:11:09.920 --> 00:11:14.020 A young woman died of an ectopic pregnancy. 185 00:11:14.640 --> 00:11:16.300 She had an autopsy. 186 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:21.760 And then I went and picked her up in the back of the car, 187 00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:23.900 not in a coffin, on this board, 188 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:24.880 just to see if she was okay. 189 00:11:24.900 --> 00:11:25.380 Just like that. 190 00:11:26.380 --> 00:11:29.400 And then we're bringing her home to the house where she died. 191 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:30.340 This is her husband. 192 00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:34.320 And this is her mother who's come from Germany. 193 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.160 And they've been trying to have a baby for 12 years. 194 00:11:39.400 --> 00:11:44.200 And the mother said, I said, you know, we can do all this. 195 00:11:44.860 --> 00:11:46.680 She said, I'm afraid. 196 00:11:46.780 --> 00:11:49.160 I said, if you trust me, I will get you there. 197 00:11:51.640 --> 00:11:54.220 So all the women came and the relatives. 198 00:11:54.900 --> 00:11:58.240 What I did with the mother was we took a corner of this each, 199 00:11:58.520 --> 00:12:01.460 the sheet, and I said, okay, when you're ready, 200 00:12:02.020 --> 00:12:03.760 let's pull it back together. 201 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:06.520 So we didn't just do it all in one go. 202 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:07.980 We just went step by step. 203 00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:10.880 And so this is where to hear. 204 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:15.840 So for me in this moment, 205 00:12:16.980 --> 00:12:19.360 you know, this is every parent's right 206 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:22.580 to have time with their child. 207 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:24.700 But I know that that is not, 208 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:25.540 not always the case. 209 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:29.600 And that picture for me is very powerful. 210 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.820 And it was her only daughter, her only child, 211 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:37.560 her only grandchild, all gone. 212 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:42.180 The women had washed and dressed her. 213 00:12:42.580 --> 00:12:45.340 And then people were going to come and visit 214 00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:46.980 through the house in the afternoon. 215 00:12:47.060 --> 00:12:48.060 Because of the shock, 216 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:52.100 people really needed to see it for themselves. 217 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:54.680 And then we started to, 218 00:12:54.680 --> 00:12:55.720 to wash her. 219 00:12:56.660 --> 00:12:58.840 And while that was happening in the house, 220 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:02.380 outside, people were painting the coffin. 221 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:07.960 So this is the mother now painting the coffin, 222 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.320 you know, the mother's husband, everybody. 223 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:15.220 Children. 224 00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:18.160 And then there was a vigil overnight 225 00:13:18.160 --> 00:13:21.140 where the mother sat with her all night. 226 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:24.600 And then this is, 227 00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:26.900 this is the morning and we're going to the crematorium. 228 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.660 So the men are there and we're about to lift her 229 00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:32.680 into that coffin. 230 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.320 And this is then at the crematorium. 231 00:13:39.140 --> 00:13:42.880 The mother was the, you know, covered her with her shawl. 232 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.380 And then I said to her, you ready, 233 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.160 we'll put the lid on when you're ready. 234 00:13:48.740 --> 00:13:52.320 And then we put the lid on together. 235 00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:54.660 And there she was. 236 00:13:56.580 --> 00:13:58.000 I reckon it's great. 237 00:13:58.380 --> 00:14:00.060 Yeah, I want to be part of it. 238 00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:01.260 Yeah. 239 00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:04.280 Two very different experiences of a funeral. 240 00:14:07.040 --> 00:14:10.380 I think, and you can see the community taking in 241 00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:13.920 the understanding that a half an hour funeral 242 00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:16.520 for that woman to farewell her daughter 243 00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:18.060 would simply have been inadequate. 244 00:14:19.300 --> 00:14:22.400 And that all the things that they learnt in that funeral 245 00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:23.760 they then could go on to do. 246 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:27.800 Tending to the body especially became important to them. 247 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.360 Washing it, washing the body of their friend. 248 00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:33.780 Caring for him. 249 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.660 And then being able to speak for him 250 00:14:37.660 --> 00:14:43.940 in a time and place that meant that they truly felt 251 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:45.780 that they gave him the tribute that he needed. 252 00:14:47.400 --> 00:14:49.940 Partly what they learnt was that they could do it themselves 253 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:51.940 and the other thing that they learnt 254 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:54.460 is that they needed to talk about it 255 00:14:54.460 --> 00:14:54.640 or... 256 00:14:54.660 --> 00:15:02.940 ahead of time so that when the rush of grief is upon them, decisions aren't being made in such a 257 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:10.300 hurry that afterwards you feel like you haven't done what you needed to do. And I think the thing 258 00:15:10.300 --> 00:15:17.440 that I learned from this whole experience of being with them is that often it might not be the person 259 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:24.620 closest to the one who's dying who can have that conversation. And I think that's why we need to 260 00:15:24.620 --> 00:15:32.440 talk about it amongst ourselves because we've become so bad at discussing death that when it 261 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:39.300 happens it truly is like a snowball that sweeps people up in it and spits them out at the other 262 00:15:39.300 --> 00:15:46.420 end. We can do it differently. I think we learned to do the same thing differently around birth and 263 00:15:46.420 --> 00:15:52.040 I look at this and many times I've thought the same thought. This is so, this is as strange 264 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:54.320 as it must have been when 265 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:54.600 you were born. 266 00:15:54.620 --> 00:16:01.060 Men were not allowed in to see their own children be born. And a kind of professionalism said to them 267 00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:07.220 perhaps you can't manage this, this might be too much for you, we will be there and afterwards 268 00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:14.560 we'll deliver you a baby. And then there are issues to do with bonding and presence and attachment 269 00:16:15.180 --> 00:16:24.400 that are missed. I think it's the same with this. My feeling is that if we can be prepared and then 270 00:16:24.400 --> 00:16:35.760 be present and stay participating through the process as much as we can, then our sense at the end is that we are able to let go. 271 00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:47.820 It's interesting every time I talked with someone about being with a dying person, once the person had died people invariably said the same sentence. 272 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.740 When they were with the dead they said they were gone. 273 00:16:54.400 --> 00:17:01.320 It's unequivocal. It's clear to us. But it's not clear to us if we don't see it. 274 00:17:02.420 --> 00:17:11.940 Somewhere in our minds I think we need to touch the physical and the touching lets us, our whole body know. 275 00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:21.040 And if our whole body can know, it's not so scary to bury a body or to cremate someone. 276 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:24.380 It's a complete experience. 277 00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:24.900 It's the thinking of a circle. 278 00:17:26.620 --> 00:17:29.480 And that's what this group of people are learning to do. 279 00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:32.780 So we can talk more about that later. 280 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:38.840 Thank you very much Lynette. 281 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:48.100 As you've seen from the excerpt there, it's a really wonderful film and there's a lot more going on in there than just you've seen in those two short bits. 282 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.340 Now, when I was thinking about this session, introducing the next speaker, 283 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:54.060 I sort of got some sort of segue. 284 00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:54.740 I thought it would be good. 285 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.220 It wasn't until I was watching this film, I had another look at it this morning, 286 00:17:58.360 --> 00:18:04.200 I thought, I've actually got a poem which is about a community cemetery. 287 00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:06.680 It's in Darwin. 288 00:18:07.040 --> 00:18:11.040 And if you know Darwin, it's near the Botanic Gardens. 289 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:17.080 On the road, on the Botanic Gardens road, go leading there, on the side of the road, there's a little cemetery there, 290 00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:21.060 which probably hasn't been used since the 1940s. 291 00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:22.160 But it's still there. 292 00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:24.360 Last time I was in Darwin a year or so ago, they'd actually fenced it. 293 00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:26.760 But until then, it was just on the side of the road. 294 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.820 And it's lots of babies. 295 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:32.760 There's clearly lots of babies buried there. 296 00:18:32.820 --> 00:18:37.800 And there's Chinese and people who obviously were not in the well-off end of Darwin. 297 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.500 So here's a poem called Lullabies, Gardens Road Cemetery. 298 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:47.220 Through the stillness you invoke when the traffic goes quiet, 299 00:18:47.820 --> 00:18:52.140 when the wind falls calm and leaves quiver but do not drop, 300 00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:57.240 you may convince yourself, yes, I can hear them. 301 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:03.180 Perhaps flowers might have been folded from tissue paper or Chinese silk. 302 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.880 A plaque might once have been a ploughshare. 303 00:19:06.040 --> 00:19:13.480 Perhaps only one breath, one name, unaccompanied, only Tom, unadorned. 304 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.680 Yes, perhaps you can hear them. 305 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.140 Hushed below the widow-maker gums, buttressed figs, 306 00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:22.120 under tussocks, stung. 307 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:26.280 Dandelions, iron wrought by sadness, these wistful strains, 308 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.560 the lullabies of the barely born, a mother's song. 309 00:19:31.100 --> 00:19:35.400 After father finally, unremittingly never returned. 310 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:40.060 Perhaps you can hear her incantation embedded in oxide and earth, 311 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.880 whispered on this eternal November the 5th, 1946. 312 00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:50.500 Departing the gardens, perhaps you can ignore hints of gristle, 313 00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:51.960 core, marrow. 314 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:52.920 Sinu. 315 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.120 Perhaps you can ask a translation of the polished marble. 316 00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:03.120 Perhaps, out of silence, you can tell her the miles old lullabies have slept. 317 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:08.900 So that was, I thought, really, I really got the feel of some of that 318 00:20:08.900 --> 00:20:10.720 from some of the movie anyway. 319 00:20:11.740 --> 00:20:16.060 Now, by way of that, let's go and introduce Charlie Cork. 320 00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:20.280 Charlie Cork is Director of Intensive Care at Geelong, 321 00:20:20.280 --> 00:20:23.240 and he's a member of the College of Intensive Care Medicine. 322 00:20:23.820 --> 00:20:26.320 He's been doing this work for more than 25 years, 323 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:31.280 and was part of an ABC program called In The End, 324 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.920 about planning for the end, basically. 325 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.260 He's done a lot of research in this area, he's an experienced clinician in this area, 326 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:39.960 and he's a wonderful speaker too. 327 00:20:40.080 --> 00:20:41.880 So, we'll hand you over now to Charlie Cork. 328 00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:46.780 Well, thank you very much. 329 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:50.180 I'd have to say that basically, Lynette, 330 00:20:50.180 --> 00:20:54.000 Lynette has said it all, more eloquently, I think, than I can, 331 00:20:54.100 --> 00:20:56.040 and with more feeling than I can. 332 00:20:56.540 --> 00:20:58.440 Because it's about taking control, 333 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.160 it's about not allowing the system to muck it all up for us. 334 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:07.320 And everything that she said about after death applies before death. 335 00:21:09.620 --> 00:21:14.560 Our lives are like a story, a beautiful story, an exciting story, 336 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:16.540 a story with lots of emotion in it. 337 00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:18.240 It's wonderful. 338 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.320 But like all stories, there's an end. 339 00:21:23.100 --> 00:21:28.840 And at the end of life, it comes to a sort of scary place, with the dragon. 340 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.200 And we don't like to think about it, and we like to lock it out, 341 00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:34.880 and we leave it alone. 342 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:40.080 And what I'd like to do today is to talk to you about a number of deaths, 343 00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:41.140 a number of experiences. 344 00:21:43.760 --> 00:21:48.220 And this surgeon from New York, I think, has summed up the way we live. 345 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.900 About people who have concerns besides simply prolonging their lives. 346 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:54.200 Surveys of patients with terminal illness, 347 00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:57.160 in fact, patients towards the end of their lives, 348 00:21:57.340 --> 00:22:01.120 find that their top priorities include, in addition to avoiding suffering, 349 00:22:01.520 --> 00:22:03.860 being with family, having the touch of others, 350 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:06.880 and being mentally aware, and not being a burden on others. 351 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.600 And our system of technological medicine has utterly failed to meet these needs. 352 00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:15.360 And the cost of failure is measured in much more than dollars. 353 00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:16.500 And this is what drives me. 354 00:22:16.780 --> 00:22:18.220 I'm not worried about how much money I have. 355 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:18.920 I'm not worried about how much we pay for it. 356 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:22.780 I'm worried about the suffering that it causes, and the misery that it causes. 357 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:24.200 Whoops. 358 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:27.760 And I believe that a good life needs a good end. 359 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:31.820 And if you muck it up all at the end, then it mucks it all up. 360 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.380 So I'd like to tell you a story first about Jeff. 361 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:41.900 Jeff was a patient who had home oxygen for terrible lungs. 362 00:22:42.540 --> 00:22:45.560 He enjoyed caravanning, he enjoyed bowling, 363 00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:50.620 and he was very clear that he valued his independence and wanted to stay at home. 364 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:54.720 During the last part of his illness, he had three admissions to hospital, 365 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:58.280 and was ventilated in intensive care for each of them. 366 00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:02.980 Not a surprising end to respiratory failure, if you're going to be very aggressive. 367 00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:05.680 On each occasion, he was worse than he was before. 368 00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:09.540 And on each occasion, it was a huge struggle to get him off the ventilator. 369 00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:13.500 Trying to breathe, but not being able to, and having to get put back on, 370 00:23:13.580 --> 00:23:15.540 and trying and failing, and trying and failing. 371 00:23:15.540 --> 00:23:19.440 But eventually, each time, against the odds, he got off. 372 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:24.560 His family and his respiratory physician were very keen that he came every time and came back. 373 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.900 And he just managed. 374 00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:29.920 At the end, though, he wasn't able to go home. 375 00:23:30.080 --> 00:23:34.140 He was so weak and so debilitated that he needed to go to a nursing home. 376 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:37.800 And was essentially confined to bed in the nursing home. 377 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.740 He very quickly started saying that he wished that he had died at the last admission, 378 00:23:42.840 --> 00:23:43.860 and he wanted to die. 379 00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:46.380 So they got the psychiatrist to see him, 380 00:23:46.460 --> 00:23:51.360 who said that he may be depressed, and gave him antidepressants that didn't work. 381 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:58.000 But then, the way of the world, he didn't get another event that could kill him. 382 00:23:58.060 --> 00:24:00.440 He had a lot of events that looked like they might kill him, 383 00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:03.540 and he was very distressed with his breathing, but he never did die. 384 00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.020 Not immediately. 385 00:24:05.520 --> 00:24:09.480 And had a lot of scary events, until nine months later, he eventually died. 386 00:24:12.520 --> 00:24:13.800 We reviewed the case. 387 00:24:13.800 --> 00:24:18.400 And the doctor looking after him was quite content that his treatment was perfect. 388 00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:23.340 This is a lady who looked after Mabel. 389 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:28.680 She was sent down to see me to put a dialysis catheter in for her end-stage renal failure. 390 00:24:29.060 --> 00:24:32.500 And she had a high potassium and lots of things in the registrar had sent her down. 391 00:24:32.620 --> 00:24:34.640 And the nurse told me that she was being difficult. 392 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.440 Refusing to cooperate and come into the operating theatre. 393 00:24:38.860 --> 00:24:40.280 So I went and saw her and she said, 394 00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:48.520 I'm 88, I've had a good life, and they're not putting me on a kidney machine. 395 00:24:50.300 --> 00:24:52.420 I said, well, have they talked to you about it? 396 00:24:52.940 --> 00:24:58.000 And she said, no, the talk's been going on at the end of the bed, but no one's asked me. 397 00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:01.200 And I'm not doing it. 398 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:04.060 And she didn't. 399 00:25:04.940 --> 00:25:06.120 But she knew what she wanted. 400 00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:10.260 This is a fascinating story. 401 00:25:10.260 --> 00:25:13.560