WEBVTT

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<v Intro>This session of the 2013 Adelaide Festival of Ideas was recorded by</v>

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Radio Adelaide through the support of the Vast mid library,

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University of Adelaide,

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The University of South Australia library and Flinders University library.

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<v Heather>Breathing life into our cities corners. I would like to welcome John Hanlon,</v>

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who is the deputy chief executive of the department of planning infrastructure

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and local government.

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John is also the chair of the Premier's vibrant cities

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task force,

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and it's their mission to make the city of Adelaide a more attractive place for

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all of us. We're very lucky to have John here with us this afternoon.

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He will be the chair of the session and will guide the panel through the

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discussion and also facilitate your questions at the end of the session.

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I must also thank John's department, the department of planning, transport,

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and infrastructure for supporting Jeff's fixed, travel to South Australia.

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Would you please welcome Mr. John Hanlon?

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<v 2>[Inaudible].</v>

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<v John Hanlon>Thanks Heather. And welcome everybody to this session.</v>

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And this is going to be a very interactive session.

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It'll be a bit of a conversation with four very interesting people who I think

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you're going to see just how the city is changing by the way that these people

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are interacting with with our city.

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And so being a festival of ideas,

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we're going to make it very interactive as well.

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And so we will want you at some stage.

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I will give you the key that those people want to ask questions to come up and

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ask them questions and interact with the group of speakers up here today.

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This session is about breathing life into our city corners.

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And if you've been around Adelaide for a long time,

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you're probably seeing just on the horizon. Now, things starting to change.

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The city is changing.

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You've only got to look out there now and see what's happening on whether it be

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the river bank,

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whether it be our streets where the urbanisation of our city just what is going

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on and what's happening. Adelaide is on the move.

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And we want to talk about that today and talk about what we need to do to,

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to keep that momentum going and to get it right, which is more important.

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It is about what good cities are all about,

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how they thrive and how we get the best potential out of them.

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How will breathe new life into our city streets and that now some people will

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go, we don't want the city to change,

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but I think it's inevitable that cities do change around the world.

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They keep growing and they keep moving, which has got to get that right.

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We've got to manage it.

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There are certain things that are absolute game-changers to changing a city.

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And we're going to talk about some of those,

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and we want some of your ideas and we're going to get some of the ideas from our

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panel here today. So that's what the session is all about.

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But look just a couple of formalities. And the first thing is the,

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the garner welcome. I acknowledge that to die.

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We are gathered on the traditional country of Ghana people of the Adelaide

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Plains. We recognise and respect their cultural heritage,

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their beliefs in their relationships with the land.

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We acknowledge that they are continuing importance to the Ghana people and

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living today, and we respect their elders past and present.

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Can I also just ask as a formality, if anyone's got a mobile phone,

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can you at least turn it to silent mode?

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There are those people who I'm sure will be tweeting and Instagram and hashtags,

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and that you can keep using those, but please just have it in silent mode.

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You can't record these proceedings,

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but a radio Adelaide will be broadcasting this through podcasts in

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future podcasts.

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Now I'm going to take a seat down here and introduce our first person for you

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to hear from and speak to her. And they're going to do it from here.

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So from here on, it's a conversation

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on my far right here is Jeff Speck, who is the principal of Speck Associates,

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or this is Jeff's first Australian tourist guest of the Adelaide Festival of

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Ideas. And welcome. And thanks today, Ted, for taking the time to spend with us.

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I know you here over the next three or four days,

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and you've been doing a lot of walking around the city.

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So it's going to be interesting to get your perspective, offering me rides.

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I know, and you don't want to be in a car.

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We know that Jeff's a city planner,

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he's an urban designer three's writing and his public service work,

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and he's built worky.

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He advocates internationally for smart growth and sustainable design as a

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director of design and at the U S national endowment for the arts from

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2003 to 2007 Jeff created the governor's Institute of community

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design. He is a co-author of the suburban nation,

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the rise of sprawl and the decline of the American dream.

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One of his recent publication is the walkable city.

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How downtown can save America one step at a time,

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which is a very interesting concept for us to be talking about in Adelaide right

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now. You know, and I wanted to, I was talking to Jeff earlier,

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and I know he has some history of this.

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We all know that through the fifties and sixties, that South Australia,

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Adelaide in particular was part of that manufacturing industry for the

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development of cars. And as you would all know,

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that's when the suburbs just started appearing on the horizon.

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And we started seeing, instead of people coming towards a city,

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moving away from the sister cities. So the early 19 hundreds,

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we had reasonable density around our city. And then as the,

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as the car came in through the fifties and sixties started the freeways.

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And so did the urban sprawl start to occur and the reliance on cars start to

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occur. Now I know that Jeff is, has looked at this,

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and this is very much the American model and has looked at this and advocated a

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new way of thinking about this. And I'm just wondering,

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Jeff had to start this off. I mean, why should we care about that?

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What should we worry about at all? Just keep the sprawl going.

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<v Jeff Speck>I've seen the future and it's scary. Well, John,</v>

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thank you for the kind of question and thanks to the Adelaide festival ideas and

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its sponsors for bringing me here. And it's wonderful to see such a crowd,

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especially since we're,

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I understand we're up against live vasectomies at this hour.

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Hopefully nothing like that will occur on this stage.

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And allow me to also take this opportunity to invite you,

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to see my solo act, which is tomorrow afternoon. I think it's here,

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but it's tomorrow at three.

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This will be a little bit of a preview of the ideas that I'll be addressing

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there. Thank you to my other panelists.

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I'm looking forward to the conversation and for that reason I won't be speaking

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for, for too long, cause I'm much more interested in, in the conversation.

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I'm glad the question wasn't,

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although I'll get to that perhaps eventually I'm glad the question wasn't,

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you know, yet what can Adelaide do better because

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Australian cities in general and certainly Adelaide in particular are

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you know,

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typically doing the typical Australian cities not to say this is one of them

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are about,

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is have the walkability and the placemaking and the livability thing figured out

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about as well as the best American cities.

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So your cities don't have that much to learn from me.

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Your suburbs though,

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are about as bad as our worst and the way that you've spread is very

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similar. I would say not as,

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not as all encompassing,

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when you fly around Australia, as I've been doing,

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it's not as depressing as flying around the us, but,

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but certainly the trend here as in most places

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where there were auto industries has been towards suburbanization.

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And

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I've been arguing that the book that I wrote with my colleagues suburban nation

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about 13 or so years ago was a very firm

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kind of planner plan. I mean, we addressed it towards a popular audience,

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but it was a very firm planners rant about why cities were good in villages were

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good in towns were good.

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And basically anything pre-war was working pretty darn well.

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And those were the places that we liked and the suburbs were bad.

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And it was essentially approach from a planner's point of view.

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Most of us are trained as architects. We look at things aesthetically,

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but what's happened in the 10 or 15 years since we were having that conversation

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is a bunch of other groups have the question is why should we care that people

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weren't listening to the planner's argument, all that carefully because a,

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the planners screwed it up for so many years, really for 50 years,

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the planners were pushing the wrong model, right? And, and B,

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we were approaching it from a more aesthetic and design oriented point of view,

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which no design is cool,

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but that's really not the way that most people approach things the way that

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we've been trained to approach them. But what happened in these intervening,

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in those intervening 10 to 15 years is that these three groups that do listen to

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the economists,

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the epidemiologists and the environmentalist started each in their own

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ways. And each towards their own ends attacking the same question,

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the suburbanization versus urbanization or reorganization question that we had

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been addressing as planners and coming up with compelling reasons,

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not necessarily talking to each other or to us,

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but we eventually discovered each other,

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but they each came up with their own compelling reasons about why cities are

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stronger.

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Economically cities are healthier and cities are environmentally more

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sustainable than the alternative.

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So I'm going to touch upon each of those for one minute.

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The economics argument is essentially there are different ways to nibble

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around the edges and to talk about frankly, how you know,

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real estate is worth more in an urban environment.

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And to talk about all the different groups. Now,

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if you look at the demographics,

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there's a bubble of empty-nesters and a bubble of millennials, and in-between,

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there's strange people like me who have small children, a rarity. Now,

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all these reasons to think that the city,

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the kind of living environment that serves all the households that

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are about to be generated is much more likely to be in an urban living

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environment than a suburban living environment where people don't need or want

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big houses to heat and cool, and clean and yards to tend.

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Don't really care about schools at this point,

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because it's a small number of households that actually have children of school

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bearing age, and that at least in the U S that's,

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all we've been building for for 50 years is that market.

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And that's a very interesting discussion, like a market based

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businessmen's discussion, but the most,

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much more powerful economic discussion I believe is, is the

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great cost to our society. Over the,

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since the seventies in the U S we've doubled the number of roads in our country

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and in, so doing we've doubled the percent of your income that every American is

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spending on transportation. So now, you know,

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we used to spend one 10th of our income on transportation.

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Now we spend one fifth working Americans spend more on transportation than on

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housing. And this challenge actually will,

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I can't afford to live in the city because it costs too much.

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If you factor the cars into account,

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it may not cost too much to live in the city.

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And then those American cities and those north American cities like Portland,

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Oregon, and Vancouver that have invested instead of investing in driving,

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have invested in biking and transit.

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And therefore in walking are the hot places right now and

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have saved their residents so much money that they're able to spend a lot more

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locally.

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So that's a half an hour discussion and two minutes the

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epidemiologist argument,

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there's a book that came out in 2004 called urban sprawl and public health.

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And while we had been shouting into the wilderness for,

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for years about the ugliness and the anime of sprawl,

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these doctors came out and said, suburban sprawl is killing us.

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It's making us fat. It's making us sick. It is shortening lifespans.

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We've the first generation of kids in America who are expected to live shorter

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lives than their parents because of environmentally induced

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inactivity. And we now have what are called obesogenic communities,

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which is essentially everything in your outer ring is no obesogenic community.

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And then add to that asthma and car crashes.

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And the statistic that was out today was 87,000 Americans are dying each year

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from the combination of car crashes and tailpipe exhaust.

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So there's a larger argument,

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but that the doctors now are on board and people listen to doctors.

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And then finally the environmentalist in America are fascinating for the way

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that they turned on a dime in a country,

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which has historically the environmental movement in the U S was an anti city

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movement.

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And that was only reinforced by the carbon mapping of the U S

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where you look at CO2 per square mile. And it looks like a night sky,

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satellite photo of the U S hottest in the cities cooler in the suburbs,

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coolest in these ex-urban areas. But then when they,

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when someone had the bright idea, you know,

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we shouldn't be measuring per square mile.

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We should be measuring per household because there's only so many of us in the

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country at any given time.

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And we can choose to live where we might have the least footprint and the maps

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just flipped entirely, you know, cool in the center, cities,

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little warmer in the suburbs and red hot in these ex urban driving oriented

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communities. So these three arguments now,

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or what I gird myself with when I come to communities,

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I don't talk about planning reasons anymore.

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And I've found that we're able to make a lot more change

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by paying attention to these things that affect people's pocketbook and their

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health, and you know, their ability to stay above water for the next 50 years.

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So with that, I'll hand it over. Thanks.

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<v John Hanlon>Jeff. So if you want to hear more about that,</v>

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tomorrow is another time you have to come in three o'clock to Jeff and somewhere

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in, I think you get a lot more detail about that.

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I need you to come and sit in some of my meetings with me as I have these a

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number of people wanting us to resign so much land on the fringe.

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And those conversations are often very interesting with the people who are in

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the land, of course, but that's another story. Have you noticed?

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There's a difference. I don't want to be rude, Jeff,

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but there is a difference between the two bookends and the three people in the

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middle. And it's not the fact that they're just wearing jeans. You know,

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they are a little younger than us but they are the face of

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the future of our city and what we're doing and the enormous

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amount of influence they have over cities and,

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and and where we're heading from a, from a development point of view,

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the first of these people I want you to meet is Lily Jacobs the general manager

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of Renew Adelaide as a general manager in Renew Adelaide,

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Lily is continuing her interest in innovative renewal of urban spaces,

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a not-for-profit organization that connects creative entrepreneurs

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and artists with property and industry to activate empty spaces or

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vacant urban space in cities and end in some of our suburbs as well.

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In previous roles. Lilly was a commercial and intellectual property lawyer.

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She taught property law and urban theory at Adelaide university.

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And she's one of those people that you're seeing around the city at the moment

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who, when she sees an empty building,

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she's all over it and making sure that that is activated and something is

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happening in there.

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And lots of people around Adelaide although a lot of credit

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and thanks to what Lily's doing around the revitalisation of the city,

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but Lily

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tell us a little bit about firstly renew Adelaide and what it's doing and how

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it's doing it.

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And perhaps perhaps talk to us

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about how much you perhaps want government and local government to stay out of

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dictating what you do and how you do it and let it happen.

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<v Lily Jacobs>Thank you. That was great. Well, when you add light, it's,</v>

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it's an unusual model. But everyone explained it to you.

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It sort of makes sense on that once they understand it. But part of,

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I mean, a city is,

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is composed of sort of the social community and the economic aspects,

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but it is very much that concept of cities very much grounded in a physical

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presence as well. And you know, there are, you know, buildings around that.

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And so what we do is try and make sure that there is interesting activity going

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on in those properties.

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And that we don't have a lot of vacancies because a vacancy is a dead space.

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Nobody wants to walk down the street. If there's nothing to see,

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nobody wants to live or invest or anything in an area where there's no activity.

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So where there are vacant properties we try and

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connect those with people who have ideas of how to fill them.

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And a lot of the people with interesting ideas and the ability to act quickly to

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do it artists and creative entrepreneurs,

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and they can also bring something different to a city and to a building,

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to a property that gives people a reason to go there. And at the same time,

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you're encouraging this creative community,

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which I guess that's why I'm doing this is because I feel like it's a really

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important part of a city. I'm sold on cities. I live in the city,

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I work in the city. And I just,

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I think the creative aspect is really important how we do that is

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what people find unusual. So we

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negotiate with property owners who have a vacancy that is either awaiting

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commercial leasing,

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or awaiting redevelopment for access to that property rent free,

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which is obviously a really, really easy thing to do.

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The way that we do it.

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And the only way that it will work is that the property can remain advertised on

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the market. And so at any point we can be given 30 days notice to leave.

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So that way the property owner is not actually taking on the risk of losing a

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potential commercial tenant. That's the only way it works.

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The flip side of that is still that it can limit what can go on in there in the

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space. Nothing that is going to require security, you know,

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00:18:17.571 --> 00:18:20.760
in a number of months time. But it,

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00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.960
those limitations can also inspire really interesting activity.

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And so we've seen a number of different types of projects go

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on. People who make their own product.

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Some people have made their clothes and sold them in the same space or a

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reading room, which is sort of a reading space that also held odd events.

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There's a few in port Adelaide, niche sophisticated his word,

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probably not mine DVD, higher place,

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but they're all ideas that wouldn't get off the ground without

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this like low risk opportunity to test them.

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So there are a lot of people who have ideas, but don't necessarily have capital.

316
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And this is a very low risk opportunity for people to test and grow ideas

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and be able to stay here and do it in the city.

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So it's what I explain it to people it's a win, win, win.

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It's a win for somebody with an idea it's a win for a property owner,

320
00:19:19.860 --> 00:19:22.260
and it's a win for the city as a whole.

321
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So no one argues with it,

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00:19:25.021 --> 00:19:28.920
but it still doesn't mean it's easy to talk property owners into it.

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And then we have also provided because we developed this and I didn't ever think

324
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I'd have some expertise around property.

325
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.730
People who are wanting to take the next step into a longer term committed

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00:19:41.731 --> 00:19:42.600
commercial lease,

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sort of guide them through some of that process and identify buildings.

328
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We don't charge anyone for any of this,

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00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.550
which is where our relationship with government comes in.

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00:19:55.080 --> 00:19:57.750
And that has actually for what we're doing,

331
00:19:57.751 --> 00:20:00.480
it's actually been a really good relationship.

332
00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:02.970
And I think as John said,

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00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.800
because there isn't a lot of control put on us about the way we do

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00:20:07.801 --> 00:20:08.634
things.

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<v John Hanlon>How hard that is for a government not to put controls on something. It's like,</v>

336
00:20:14.511 --> 00:20:17.960
we want to control everything. We want to legislate it out or legislated in.

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So you're having, you're having an impact on us. There's no doubt.

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<v Lily Jacobs>Well, we,</v>

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we try and sort of do that and make sure that we all understand that dynamic,

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00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.220
but it has been a really good relationship.

341
00:20:31.221 --> 00:20:34.940
And I think partly because the government currently, I mean,

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00:20:34.941 --> 00:20:38.450
a lot of people are on the same page with what the sort of aiming for.

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So support for creative activity and new ideas. I mean,

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government can be a slow moving machine. We all know that,

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00:20:45.711 --> 00:20:49.630
but I think that's a reason why it is good.

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We're a not for profit organisation. I mean, we were started purely volunteer,

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00:20:53.291 --> 00:20:57.250
run and volunteer based. So it's an idea that came from the community.

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And I think that is important in government partnerships to respect things that

349
00:21:01.181 --> 00:21:04.750
are already happening. And yeah,

350
00:21:04.780 --> 00:21:09.700
that has been a really good aspect of it that what we're

351
00:21:09.701 --> 00:21:11.560
doing and as an organiser that, I mean,

352
00:21:11.561 --> 00:21:16.300
I do have a board that is its own slow process, I guess,

353
00:21:16.301 --> 00:21:19.630
as well and political process. I love them if anyone's here.

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00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.180
But you know, that means that we operate quite independently as well,

355
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.620
and we are accountable, but we are still a flexible organisation.

356
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And by being small, when we're very small,

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00:21:32.050 --> 00:21:34.990
we can still act quickly which, you know,

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often government is limited in their ability to do that because of course they

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00:21:38.591 --> 00:21:42.460
need to be accountable to the people, which I do believe in democracy.

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00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:47.290
But in my organisation I believe a bit more in dictatorship. And so

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00:21:50.140 --> 00:21:55.000
so I think that that balance of support from government

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00:21:55.030 --> 00:21:58.840
whilst still allowing growth from the community and

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00:21:59.560 --> 00:22:04.000
adaptable organisations to actually implement some of that is important part of

364
00:22:04.270 --> 00:22:05.103
our relationship.

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00:22:06.450 --> 00:22:10.470
<v John Hanlon>Thank you. Next is Peter Drew.</v>

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Peter is a straight artist born in Adelaide. He's still living in Glasgow.

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<v Jeff Speck>Not right at the moment. Now I've realised that I was living in Glasgow.</v>

368
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I moved back in about a week ago.

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<v John Hanlon>Peter has been working as a gorilla artists in the streets of Adelaide.</v>

370
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And you may well have seen some of his work around the place.

371
00:22:29.011 --> 00:22:32.820
He recently completed a research master's that the Glasgow school of art,

372
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:38.250
since 2011 Peter's work has found international acclaim with these

373
00:22:38.251 --> 00:22:43.140
series of 1920s, archival mugshots took over the streets of Adelaide.

374
00:22:43.141 --> 00:22:46.590
You might've seen popping up on various walls in that I think he got approval

375
00:22:46.591 --> 00:22:49.350
for them. He just was out there in the middle of the night, making it happen.

376
00:22:50.520 --> 00:22:54.960
During his research at the Glasgow school of art threatened Peter with expulsion

377
00:22:55.340 --> 00:22:58.710
freezes, illegal street artwork around the streets of Glasgow.

378
00:22:59.520 --> 00:23:01.740
Ironically enough, he's researched at the school,

379
00:23:02.270 --> 00:23:05.430
examined the tension between large institutions and urban art.

380
00:23:07.141 --> 00:23:10.560
The short documentary who arranged the street, which Peter wrote and presented,

381
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:13.860
which recently celebrated that the Sheffield doc Fest Peter is currently

382
00:23:13.861 --> 00:23:18.060
producing an online series, titled the art world versus reality.

383
00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:22.590
And his project featuring quotations from Romeo and Juliet can now be seen on

384
00:23:22.591 --> 00:23:23.910
the streets of Adelaide.

385
00:23:24.060 --> 00:23:27.180
So when you go to bed at night and you wake up the next morning and you drive

386
00:23:27.181 --> 00:23:28.200
into the city, if you do that,

387
00:23:28.201 --> 00:23:32.910
not drive you walk into the city you will see that

388
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.110
something has popped up on a street wall somewhere often.

389
00:23:37.111 --> 00:23:42.000
It's one of Peter or his team who have been out doing things, not all overnight,

390
00:23:42.030 --> 00:23:45.150
you know, do it all in the, during the day. It must have been during the day,

391
00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:48.800
but certainly I'm just wondering Peter,

392
00:23:49.010 --> 00:23:52.850
the LA is beginning to understand the value of straight art in our,

393
00:23:52.851 --> 00:23:56.710
in our line wise in our streets, in your opinion,

394
00:23:57.110 --> 00:24:00.980
we fostering the culture. Well, are we doing it right? Are we doing it wrong?

395
00:24:01.040 --> 00:24:04.940
What do we need to do? Or a guidance is something we just need to stay out of.

396
00:24:05.710 --> 00:24:09.220
<v Peter Drew>Well, I think Adelaide is doing it better than most cities,</v>

397
00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:13.990
but I think if there's something that I can probably help to explain is that

398
00:24:14.020 --> 00:24:15.130
it's, I mean,

399
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:19.480
when a street artist or definitely a graffiti writer wake up in the morning,

400
00:24:19.520 --> 00:24:21.580
they don't sort of say, right,

401
00:24:21.581 --> 00:24:25.420
let's increase the vibrancy of the city. It's not,

402
00:24:26.100 --> 00:24:30.100
it's an unintended consequence. And there's so,

403
00:24:30.310 --> 00:24:33.700
and something that I'm interested in is the the conflict

404
00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:38.980
between straight artists, graffiti writers and civic authorities.

405
00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:40.630
And if it wasn't for that conflict,

406
00:24:40.631 --> 00:24:45.430
if it was just if it was completely legitimize for

407
00:24:45.431 --> 00:24:48.790
one of the better phrase then it wouldn't be as interesting.

408
00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:52.780
And it wouldn't, it wouldn't have the same effect.

409
00:24:54.100 --> 00:24:59.050
So I think if I'd like to do anything better or any city could do

410
00:24:59.051 --> 00:25:03.730
something better with the grads to straight out, it would be to have a, I guess,

411
00:25:03.731 --> 00:25:07.570
an authentic appreciation of a subculture and realize that it's not something to

412
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:11.680
tame and simply point in the right direction.

413
00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:16.330
There's always going to be ways in which they tolerance can have great effects

414
00:25:16.331 --> 00:25:19.030
in the forms of murals,

415
00:25:19.060 --> 00:25:22.870
but street art is a, is a subculture,

416
00:25:22.871 --> 00:25:26.080
which is essentially based on the notion of, of vandalism,

417
00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:30.820
of of illegally painting or marking

418
00:25:31.030 --> 00:25:34.540
a property, which isn't yours for the purpose of communicating.

419
00:25:35.890 --> 00:25:37.180
And obviously there's a,

420
00:25:37.181 --> 00:25:41.910
there's a spectrum within that of people that just want an

421
00:25:42.520 --> 00:25:44.950
instruction. And then the other end of the spectrum,

422
00:25:44.951 --> 00:25:49.570
there's people that want to communicate in doing things which which the vast

423
00:25:49.571 --> 00:25:54.160
majority of people would find beneficial. And so

424
00:25:56.080 --> 00:25:58.950
well actually to quote John Ray, we,

425
00:25:58.951 --> 00:26:02.440
we we had made a documentary about straight out and the,

426
00:26:02.441 --> 00:26:06.220
one of the best things that he said about it was that you can't legislate it too

427
00:26:06.221 --> 00:26:07.960
much, because if you,

428
00:26:07.961 --> 00:26:12.940
if you simply just make it all obviously all work graffiti or

429
00:26:12.941 --> 00:26:16.210
all sort of vandalism is illegal. But if you enforce that to the,

430
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:20.170
to the full letter of the law and leave no room for human discretion,

431
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:24.190
then things which are technically illegal,

432
00:26:24.191 --> 00:26:29.020
but strangely enough beneficial would get a stamped

433
00:26:29.021 --> 00:26:32.800
out a lot of the projects which I've done in which lots of other straight

434
00:26:32.801 --> 00:26:36.490
artists in Adelaide and around the world do they're completely illegal.

435
00:26:37.600 --> 00:26:40.360
And that's not going to change

436
00:26:42.460 --> 00:26:46.890
but it's tolerated because it's, it brings life to the city.

437
00:26:47.550 --> 00:26:49.860
So I think, yeah, the,

438
00:26:49.861 --> 00:26:54.330
the idea that street art is perhaps they it's aggravated has

439
00:26:54.630 --> 00:26:59.550
evolved into something, which is nice and good for everybody. It's slightly

440
00:27:01.110 --> 00:27:04.380
instead of, it's not, it's not quite an entirely tree. It's,

441
00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:06.300
there's always going to be conflict there. And if there wasn't,

442
00:27:06.301 --> 00:27:11.090
it wouldn't be as interesting as it is. It's a P.

443
00:27:11.150 --> 00:27:15.650
<v John Hanlon>I mean, what, what happens with this is that Peter, you don't tag,</v>

444
00:27:15.800 --> 00:27:19.850
it's not like our graffiti workers going on around the place. And often we have,

445
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:23.180
when we see this art come up in various places, you know,

446
00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:27.230
people who have got the job of dying, removing graffiti in that actually go,

447
00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:30.620
I'm not removing that, that that's, it, that's a piece of art.

448
00:27:30.650 --> 00:27:33.180
We've actually got to do something with it. We're going to encourage this.

449
00:27:33.590 --> 00:27:34.850
It looks a lot better than.

450
00:27:34.850 --> 00:27:37.820
<v Jeff Speck>What the original wall or area was. It.</v>

451
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:40.730
<v John Hanlon>Creates something for the place. And often that is what,</v>

452
00:27:40.840 --> 00:27:44.570
what you're doing if you seen this through the states as well. Yeah. But.

453
00:27:44.570 --> 00:27:47.210
<v Jeff Speck>I was having a strange correlation,</v>

454
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:51.350
or I guess analogy run through my head as you were describing the circumstances

455
00:27:51.351 --> 00:27:52.184
because of it's,

456
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.630
if it derives its energy and perhaps some of the motivation comes from the

457
00:27:56.631 --> 00:28:01.250
illegality of it. So you don't want to make it legal perhaps,

458
00:28:01.310 --> 00:28:05.900
or fully illegal, but then again, if you have a paint over campaign,

459
00:28:05.901 --> 00:28:09.710
that's universal, as you suggested, then we don't get to benefit from the art.

460
00:28:10.310 --> 00:28:14.510
It sounds to me like some of the marijuana laws we have in the us,

461
00:28:14.540 --> 00:28:16.940
which is that you're allowed to smoke it, but you're not allowed to sell it.

462
00:28:18.770 --> 00:28:21.680
And perhaps if you make it completely illegal to create street art,

463
00:28:21.681 --> 00:28:23.210
but then you're not allowed to remove any of it,

464
00:28:24.410 --> 00:28:27.080
you'd have an allergist program, which could be very interesting.

465
00:28:27.590 --> 00:28:28.700
<v 7>Yeah. Yeah.</v>

466
00:28:29.630 --> 00:28:30.560
<v Peter Drew>I mean, it's one of those, I mean,</v>

467
00:28:30.561 --> 00:28:32.510
that's what I think it's so interesting is that it's a,

468
00:28:32.840 --> 00:28:36.170
there are no easy answers to it. I mean, obviously property is valuable.

469
00:28:36.410 --> 00:28:39.560
We need to protect people's property rights. On the other hand,

470
00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:44.210
expression is valuable and graffiti is the point in which those two principles

471
00:28:44.630 --> 00:28:46.790
conflict, and they always will always have,

472
00:28:46.791 --> 00:28:48.500
it's not something that just came about in the,

473
00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:54.250
in the 1970s when people paper, New York started using aerosol paint to do it,

474
00:28:54.260 --> 00:28:57.370
it's been around forever. But it's,

475
00:28:57.371 --> 00:29:02.360
it's certainly funny how things have changed in the last 10 years

476
00:29:02.390 --> 00:29:05.810
that city planners, civic authorities have realized that hang on,

477
00:29:05.811 --> 00:29:09.590
this is a thing that we can use to divide spaces or

478
00:29:11.360 --> 00:29:15.950
bring life to the city. I think a big part of that change is that during the,

479
00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:16.281
I mean,

480
00:29:16.281 --> 00:29:20.210
when graffiti first came about the way in which it was understood was under a

481
00:29:20.211 --> 00:29:22.370
theory called the broken window theory,

482
00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:27.320
which was published in non-entity two and under

483
00:29:27.650 --> 00:29:28.340
broken window theory,

484
00:29:28.340 --> 00:29:32.390
the idea is legit say to use the analogy which the theory uses,

485
00:29:32.391 --> 00:29:37.220
if you have a few broken windows and they're left on fixed

486
00:29:37.760 --> 00:29:42.580
that will, it will show it sort of the environment that

487
00:29:43.090 --> 00:29:47.380
crime is not being policed and it encourages more disobedience.

488
00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:49.120
And then that turns into a little more crime,

489
00:29:49.121 --> 00:29:51.670
and eventually you've got violent crime and serious crime.

490
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:55.390
So graffiti came under that and that helped to

491
00:29:55.870 --> 00:30:00.370
justify implementing a zero tolerance towards graffiti,

492
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:03.280
which that phrase zero tolerance just became the

493
00:30:05.530 --> 00:30:07.630
became very popular for civic authorities across the world.

494
00:30:08.080 --> 00:30:12.490
And so what that does is just stamp out any kind of illegal

495
00:30:12.491 --> 00:30:13.324
markings.

496
00:30:14.890 --> 00:30:19.300
And now that's sort of slowly being reversed and realized that it's,

497
00:30:19.310 --> 00:30:23.440
it's a much more sort of difficult balancing act between obviously you can't

498
00:30:23.441 --> 00:30:26.890
just let graffiti go everywhere and

499
00:30:28.330 --> 00:30:31.540
it's it wouldn't make for a vibrant city either,

500
00:30:31.541 --> 00:30:36.370
but it's a balancing between having absolutely none and having a

501
00:30:36.371 --> 00:30:37.270
little bit. So.

502
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:43.350
<v John Hanlon>So have a look around their city streets and have a look at some of this artwork</v>

503
00:30:43.351 --> 00:30:46.320
that's going up there. It is quite exceptional. And,

504
00:30:46.670 --> 00:30:51.330
and certainly something that I'm not sure I can say encourage

505
00:30:51.750 --> 00:30:56.320
it is it's one of those things. I just go, it's part of creating a city and,

506
00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:59.400
and activating spaces and places I can say.

507
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:02.610
I've never seen Peter in my office putting in a development application for

508
00:31:02.611 --> 00:31:05.880
example, and I don't expect to see him.

509
00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:11.160
Our next speaker is is Travis rants.

510
00:31:11.250 --> 00:31:16.170
And Travis has been training in the art of park or since the beginnings of

511
00:31:16.171 --> 00:31:19.140
Adelaide community for over seven years now.

512
00:31:19.540 --> 00:31:23.190
He's currently spends his time across several roles related to the emerging

513
00:31:23.191 --> 00:31:24.600
training discipline of park,

514
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.900
or as an Australian park or association committee member,

515
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:30.630
the south Australian packer association, founder,

516
00:31:30.631 --> 00:31:34.650
and president head instructor for Adelaide and founder and entrepreneur of the

517
00:31:34.651 --> 00:31:37.590
city training venue called point. I,

518
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:42.090
Travis spends upwards of 50 hours a week across those roles.

519
00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:46.080
And majority of it is volunteer. Work is about getting people active,

520
00:31:46.290 --> 00:31:47.790
moving like real humans,

521
00:31:47.791 --> 00:31:52.770
again he advocates for transform formative power of park

522
00:31:52.771 --> 00:31:54.960
or, and a strong park or community.

523
00:31:55.050 --> 00:32:00.000
And your probably going to be like me and say, this is park or all about,

524
00:32:00.870 --> 00:32:05.310
and this is the man that is going to tell you what park hall is all about. Yeah.

525
00:32:05.910 --> 00:32:09.210
<v Peter Drew>Cool. So park, you may have seen in videos and stuff,</v>

526
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:10.410
even if you hadn't heard the name,

527
00:32:10.770 --> 00:32:14.340
it looks like we're using the city like an obstacle course. So to running,

528
00:32:14.341 --> 00:32:17.340
jumping, climbing, scaling walls, balancing on railings,

529
00:32:17.580 --> 00:32:20.250
all sorts of acrobatic looking movements around the city,

530
00:32:20.820 --> 00:32:23.820
but it's actually got a bit more depth to it.

531
00:32:23.850 --> 00:32:27.180
It's a lot of people think it's sort of an adrenaline junkie thrill-seeking

532
00:32:27.181 --> 00:32:31.110
thing. It's actually quite the opposite. It's a training discipline,

533
00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:34.710
which is about training yourself to be useful in an emergency.

534
00:32:34.830 --> 00:32:37.080
So if I need to reach or escape,

535
00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:40.040
I can use my body and I can get away from someone,

536
00:32:40.041 --> 00:32:43.190
get over to someone to help them. That's kind of the training goal,

537
00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:47.390
which we use to inform what we do for park or for in training park.

538
00:32:47.391 --> 00:32:50.840
Or you also just have the initial benefits of physical activity, getting fit,

539
00:32:50.841 --> 00:32:51.674
getting strong.

540
00:32:52.070 --> 00:32:56.390
It also has a really strong community element because behind the ideas of

541
00:32:56.420 --> 00:33:00.440
training to be useful in an emergency comes a philosophy of altruism and

542
00:33:00.470 --> 00:33:01.550
building that useful strength,

543
00:33:01.551 --> 00:33:04.790
building a strong community so that people around you are also useful and

544
00:33:04.791 --> 00:33:09.110
helpful. So when you collect a bunch of people who are doing that together,

545
00:33:09.330 --> 00:33:11.480
you get a really strong sort of community atmosphere.

546
00:33:11.481 --> 00:33:15.170
And it builds a really strong group of people who have those values embedded in

547
00:33:15.171 --> 00:33:19.940
the culture park or has been growing

548
00:33:20.360 --> 00:33:23.840
well for seven years in Adelaide, but for about 10 years in Australia.

549
00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:28.820
And it's only about 25 years old. So it's a very new thing,

550
00:33:28.850 --> 00:33:32.630
but it's gone global very quickly, mostly due to videos on the internet,

551
00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:33.493
things like that.

552
00:33:33.770 --> 00:33:37.400
So there's park or communities popping up pretty much everywhere in the world.

553
00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:41.840
There's a park or Gaza group. There's partial communities in every country,

554
00:33:41.841 --> 00:33:44.540
as far as we can work out. Some of them are very hard to find though,

555
00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:47.450
and everywhere that it's popping up,

556
00:33:47.451 --> 00:33:50.390
it's sort of creating this energy in this community,

557
00:33:50.391 --> 00:33:51.620
which has been really cool to see.

558
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:55.280
And the communities are mostly very well connected around the globe.

559
00:33:55.310 --> 00:33:58.460
So we're pushing the discipline together as well as in our local areas.

560
00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:05.500
<v John Hanlon>I didn't even know that existed in Adelaide and, but it is massive.</v>

561
00:34:05.501 --> 00:34:08.010
And there's a lot of people. And I think one of the things about what,

562
00:34:08.011 --> 00:34:09.520
what the people you have in front of,

563
00:34:09.521 --> 00:34:13.420
you got a person that plans for spices and tries to make them creative and make

564
00:34:13.421 --> 00:34:15.550
them part of an urban environment.

565
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.060
You got someone that takes every vacant space they can find and try and use it

566
00:34:19.061 --> 00:34:22.930
and put it into, into an economic place or a creative place.

567
00:34:23.080 --> 00:34:24.760
If someone's prepared to draw all over them.

568
00:34:24.970 --> 00:34:27.280
And you've got someone ready to climb all over them as well,

569
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.670
but that is what's happening. And I think you know, from us as,

570
00:34:33.850 --> 00:34:37.930
as people who are urban planning or have responsibility for development and the

571
00:34:37.931 --> 00:34:38.741
growth of cities,

572
00:34:38.741 --> 00:34:42.550
we just have to understand what is around us and what is happening and the

573
00:34:42.551 --> 00:34:44.560
different people that are, that are involved in it.

574
00:34:44.560 --> 00:34:49.240
And what's going on in our cities. The, this is happening every day in our city.

575
00:34:49.241 --> 00:34:50.550
And we can't turn that back on it,

576
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.200
that things are changing the faces of changing.

577
00:34:54.130 --> 00:34:56.560
One of the key things that have happened to Adelaide,

578
00:34:56.561 --> 00:35:01.210
especially over the last probably decade to 10 to

579
00:35:01.211 --> 00:35:05.680
20 years in many ways has been the biggest drain on our population

580
00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:09.310
has been people under the age of 30 leaving.

581
00:35:10.630 --> 00:35:12.610
You may very well have family members,

582
00:35:12.611 --> 00:35:16.870
but are going to Melbourne or going to Sydney or going overseas.

583
00:35:17.470 --> 00:35:21.160
And I noticed with, with a couple of ministers,

584
00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:26.320
we just started in not in an improper way tracking where these people

585
00:35:26.321 --> 00:35:27.790
were going. It's just what was happening.

586
00:35:27.791 --> 00:35:31.870
So we went and looked for people who were the young people under 30,

587
00:35:32.050 --> 00:35:35.800
where did we find them? We found them in Sydney. We found them in Melbourne. We,

588
00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:39.890
we found them in all sorts of cities around the world and said, you know,

589
00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:41.720
why he left LA? What is it?

590
00:35:41.721 --> 00:35:45.770
And it's amazing because we just haven't and embraced a lot of the things that's

591
00:35:45.771 --> 00:35:47.120
just been discussed just now.

592
00:35:48.020 --> 00:35:51.710
We have been very conservative in the way we we've developed and the way we've

593
00:35:51.711 --> 00:35:52.544
gone.

594
00:35:52.640 --> 00:35:56.180
And we haven't looked at our city and we haven't looked at the opportunities

595
00:35:56.181 --> 00:36:01.070
that we can create for younger people to stay here. It is all in our benefit.

596
00:36:01.160 --> 00:36:05.900
Anyone who's lost any family member overseas or interstate

597
00:36:06.170 --> 00:36:08.930
would love them to be back here, living in Adelaide.

598
00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:10.760
And it always is a bit much.

599
00:36:10.761 --> 00:36:13.640
And I know my daughter has done the same thing and said, oh, don't worry, dad,

600
00:36:13.641 --> 00:36:17.540
I'll come back. When it's time to have children, you are the fifth,

601
00:36:17.541 --> 00:36:21.110
most livable city in the world, you know, and you go, well, that's really great,

602
00:36:21.111 --> 00:36:25.590
but I actually want you here now. And how do we do that? And, and,

603
00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:30.650
and part of what we created in government, and we got that title,

604
00:36:30.651 --> 00:36:33.710
which I know some people say we wish it was never invented the vibrant city

605
00:36:33.711 --> 00:36:36.980
program. And I just keep saying, forget about that.

606
00:36:36.981 --> 00:36:40.520
What it was about is having more people living in our city was having more

607
00:36:40.521 --> 00:36:41.990
people working in our city,

608
00:36:42.140 --> 00:36:45.620
have more people investing in our city and more people staying longer in our

609
00:36:45.621 --> 00:36:46.850
city. That's what we wanted.

610
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:50.840
We wanted to create an environment that everyone could be proud of. And,

611
00:36:51.170 --> 00:36:55.190
and everyone could see as a place that you could come here and enjoy whatever it

612
00:36:55.191 --> 00:36:59.540
is that you do in life. And, and that's what we wanted out.

613
00:36:59.600 --> 00:37:01.100
That's what we're trying to achieve.

614
00:37:01.610 --> 00:37:06.590
It's not been easy because it's very hard one to stop the urban

615
00:37:06.591 --> 00:37:10.700
sprawl and have just the suburbs rolling out. And,

616
00:37:11.090 --> 00:37:12.410
and as Jeff said,

617
00:37:12.980 --> 00:37:17.630
I'm at the forefront of looking at the cost to government in relation to

618
00:37:17.660 --> 00:37:20.240
urban sprawl, you know, not only from an infrastructure,

619
00:37:20.241 --> 00:37:23.790
but you're the health requirements for that. You know, if you think about what,

620
00:37:23.791 --> 00:37:28.730
what we have to do to build educational health facilities, to support that was,

621
00:37:28.731 --> 00:37:32.420
we're losing those people out of our, in Metro schools, in that,

622
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:37.010
or our health and institutions. And we want to bring people back in,

623
00:37:37.520 --> 00:37:40.250
but we've got to create an environment that people want to live in as well.

624
00:37:40.730 --> 00:37:45.500
And some people want the suburban backyard and that's great. It is about choice,

625
00:37:46.310 --> 00:37:50.330
but we probably haven't provided enough choice over a long period of time.

626
00:37:51.180 --> 00:37:54.470
And so, but I'm sure they straight people here,

627
00:37:54.471 --> 00:37:58.520
probably aren't looking right at this point in time for the, the backyard,

628
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:02.330
the big seven 50 square meter block of land and all of those sorts of things.

629
00:38:02.570 --> 00:38:04.160
They're looking for a different experience.

630
00:38:04.161 --> 00:38:09.020
And that's why we want them talking G to di about what it is that we

631
00:38:09.021 --> 00:38:12.710
have to manage and what it is. We've got to try and develop as, as a city.

632
00:38:13.520 --> 00:38:18.140
And for some of us, that's foreign for some of us. It's what is this?

633
00:38:18.170 --> 00:38:22.760
What are these people doing? But this is real. And there's plenty of them.

634
00:38:22.761 --> 00:38:23.930
If you don't provide it here,

635
00:38:24.290 --> 00:38:28.040
there's other cities around the world that provide that. And as I said,

636
00:38:28.130 --> 00:38:32.480
our greatest try that greatest loss of population is people under the age of 30.

637
00:38:32.870 --> 00:38:34.940
And we can't afford that. Can't afford as a,

638
00:38:35.350 --> 00:38:37.210
with being much more competitive than that.

639
00:38:37.390 --> 00:38:42.160
And we have to start creating the right environments for people to work in. Now,

640
00:38:42.161 --> 00:38:43.630
I'm just going to throw to these groups,

641
00:38:43.660 --> 00:38:45.550
this group of people for a couple of more things,

642
00:38:45.551 --> 00:38:48.610
and then I'm going to ask you to come to the microphone.

643
00:38:48.610 --> 00:38:50.020
If you've got some questions to ask,

644
00:38:50.140 --> 00:38:53.530
because we want this to be interactive in the center, you'll need the line up.

645
00:38:53.590 --> 00:38:56.560
And I desperately need you to ask some questions, not my statements,

646
00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:00.940
ask some questions to these group of people. But before we do that,

647
00:39:02.620 --> 00:39:05.710
I've asked them to just two things I did is teach. If you said,

648
00:39:05.830 --> 00:39:08.980
you wish I wouldn't do this, right, I'm going to do this two things.

649
00:39:09.550 --> 00:39:13.930
What if you are going to recommend two things to the

650
00:39:13.931 --> 00:39:17.470
government, to local government, to people like myself,

651
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:22.120
what is it that we have to do? What would be those two things that you'd say,

652
00:39:22.180 --> 00:39:23.500
John do this,

653
00:39:23.530 --> 00:39:26.560
and this would be a different place remembering that what we're talking about

654
00:39:26.561 --> 00:39:31.060
today is not so much urbanization or anything like that. We're about,

655
00:39:31.061 --> 00:39:35.500
about breathing life into our city corners about building on what you're seeing

656
00:39:35.501 --> 00:39:39.280
happening out there now. So, Jeff, what is it that you'd be suggesting?

657
00:39:39.930 --> 00:39:42.960
<v Jeff Speck>So it's, it's something that was echoed already the first thing.</v>

658
00:39:42.961 --> 00:39:43.800
And I think the biggest thing,

659
00:39:43.801 --> 00:39:48.120
because the other things we'll all follow from this, but there's a clear,

660
00:39:48.121 --> 00:39:49.650
very strong jobs,

661
00:39:49.651 --> 00:39:53.790
housing jobs slash housing imbalance in your downtown.

662
00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:59.040
The reason that you're losing, it sounds like most places I'm working in,

663
00:39:59.070 --> 00:40:02.970
I work in the mid sized cities in America, where they all say,

664
00:40:02.971 --> 00:40:05.550
how can we attract millennials? But some of them just say,

665
00:40:05.551 --> 00:40:08.850
how can we keep our kids here? And how can we keep our grandkids here? You know,

666
00:40:08.851 --> 00:40:12.060
it's the town, fathers and mothers saying, how can we keep our kids here?

667
00:40:12.570 --> 00:40:14.130
And then you look downtown.

668
00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:19.230
And the only real residential that's being built is luxury condos

669
00:40:19.770 --> 00:40:24.570
for the, what we call the dentists from New Jersey, who decide they want to,

670
00:40:24.820 --> 00:40:28.770
they want to have a more urban life. And certainly the front end boomers are,

671
00:40:28.950 --> 00:40:30.900
are a big, big audience,

672
00:40:31.020 --> 00:40:34.650
potentially the largest audience for invigorating your downtown around the

673
00:40:34.651 --> 00:40:37.950
clock. But you walk around Adelaide now, and it is,

674
00:40:38.250 --> 00:40:41.580
it is full of folks, but you walk around at night and it's not.

675
00:40:42.150 --> 00:40:46.410
And cities what I'm learning here. And I've been to Perth already.

676
00:40:46.850 --> 00:40:49.980
Cities in Australia faced the same challenge that cities in America face,

677
00:40:49.981 --> 00:40:52.080
which is in less,

678
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.660
the city itself becomes an act door in making it easier and less

679
00:40:57.661 --> 00:41:02.460
expensive for developers to build large amounts of small size apartments in the

680
00:41:02.461 --> 00:41:05.460
downtown. It isn't particularly profitable for them to do that.

681
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:09.630
So the first thing I would, I would say is to Institute a,

682
00:41:09.810 --> 00:41:14.370
an office of millennial housing attainability in your city

683
00:41:14.371 --> 00:41:17.280
government, and have someone show up every day saying,

684
00:41:17.281 --> 00:41:21.120
it's my job to get more young people living downtown because they want to live

685
00:41:21.121 --> 00:41:24.930
downtown. They just need that opportunity. And then secondly,

686
00:41:24.931 --> 00:41:26.100
I guess I would say

687
00:41:28.470 --> 00:41:32.850
I was recently at a conference with and Rica.

688
00:41:33.650 --> 00:41:37.310
Losa the famous mayor who transformed Bogota, Columbia,

689
00:41:37.940 --> 00:41:40.790
and he was presenting to us and he said, isn't it wonderful in America?

690
00:41:40.791 --> 00:41:43.700
You have a constitution that says that you're all equal under the law.

691
00:41:44.630 --> 00:41:45.560
Think about that.

692
00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:50.390
That means that a bus with 80 people in it deserves 80 times as much road space

693
00:41:50.391 --> 00:41:53.660
as a car with one person in it and a bike lane

694
00:41:55.010 --> 00:41:59.360
that, you know, bikes take up what one 20th, the space of a car,

695
00:41:59.660 --> 00:42:02.570
you should be allocating your to the degree that you could keep providing more

696
00:42:02.571 --> 00:42:06.530
bike lanes and the protected bike lanes that you lack to the degree that those

697
00:42:06.531 --> 00:42:10.490
are filling up with bikes and they will, they're,

698
00:42:10.491 --> 00:42:13.070
you're having a much more efficient city. You have much more mobile city,

699
00:42:13.071 --> 00:42:15.200
you're moving more people per square foot of roadway.

700
00:42:15.530 --> 00:42:20.270
And you're actually addressing what I would hope and suspect

701
00:42:20.450 --> 00:42:22.220
are the founding principles of your nation,

702
00:42:22.550 --> 00:42:26.900
which is that everyone is equal under the law and perhaps reducing your speed

703
00:42:26.901 --> 00:42:28.070
limit from 50 to 40.

704
00:42:28.071 --> 00:42:31.370
Like all the other cities in Australia would be a good start as well.

705
00:42:33.640 --> 00:42:34.473
That's good.

706
00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:43.050
<v John Hanlon>Just put up, count clocks on some of our intersections that does something.</v>

707
00:42:43.051 --> 00:42:45.340
It's amazing how that makes that's changing Adelaide.

708
00:42:45.730 --> 00:42:47.320
I don't know whether you're using them now.

709
00:42:47.380 --> 00:42:50.890
I wouldn't suggest you try running when there's four seconds to go or anything

710
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:55.480
like that. But it has actually said, it's the start. And I said,

711
00:42:55.600 --> 00:42:58.660
the earlier the starter things changing, and it has actually said,

712
00:42:58.810 --> 00:43:03.520
pedestrians actually should be having more power over our streets

713
00:43:03.550 --> 00:43:05.020
than in a city. Can.

714
00:43:05.020 --> 00:43:09.790
<v Jeff Speck>I say what the cars have? Firstly, a third thing. And again, you guys,</v>

715
00:43:09.791 --> 00:43:12.310
we all, I try and teach American cities to be like Portland.

716
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:13.780
And you guys are already,

717
00:43:14.170 --> 00:43:17.740
you're doing as well as Portland and most of you in most of your categories,

718
00:43:17.741 --> 00:43:21.430
but having walked around Perth and I'll say south Australia,

719
00:43:21.431 --> 00:43:25.210
now your signal K forgive the technical approach.

720
00:43:25.660 --> 00:43:30.430
Your signalization regimes here in south Australia are

721
00:43:30.431 --> 00:43:34.150
really bad. And if you look at a,

722
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:35.950
if you look at a similar story,

723
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.490
you can stand at an intersection where there's just two lanes of traffic going

724
00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:42.460
by you, a near section that within five, five seconds,

725
00:43:42.461 --> 00:43:47.320
you'd find your way across in the U S and you wait and you wait and you

726
00:43:47.321 --> 00:43:49.960
wait, great. We have something called a

727
00:43:52.030 --> 00:43:56.110
leading pedestrian indicator where the pedestrian is to cross the crosswalk

728
00:43:56.140 --> 00:43:56.501
first,

729
00:43:56.501 --> 00:44:00.400
before any cars turn in the intersection and hear that you let all the cars turn

730
00:44:00.401 --> 00:44:04.120
and then you get the green. So I can say one thing to, to help you.

731
00:44:04.870 --> 00:44:07.060
There's a tree, you know, maybe it's gotten better,

732
00:44:07.061 --> 00:44:08.870
but there's a clear hierarchy where the.

733
00:44:09.970 --> 00:44:14.170
<v John Hanlon>Better it's improving our history is, were run by traffic engineers.</v>

734
00:44:14.350 --> 00:44:15.760
<v Jeff Speck>Yeah, well, so we're all of our cities,</v>

735
00:44:15.761 --> 00:44:18.700
but somehow your signalization regimes here are worse or worse than.

736
00:44:18.700 --> 00:44:23.560
<v John Hanlon>Ours. So something I can agree with that, wouldn't we thank you,</v>

737
00:44:24.460 --> 00:44:28.900
Lily. Here's your chance.

738
00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:30.420
Here's a chance to tell us.

739
00:44:30.500 --> 00:44:31.333
<v Lily Jacobs>To stay out.</v>

740
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:36.330
Think I'm going to say things related to property, I guess.

741
00:44:36.510 --> 00:44:38.880
Cause that's what we do. Although there are probably other things.

742
00:44:41.310 --> 00:44:43.950
One of them, things that we deal with a lot,

743
00:44:43.951 --> 00:44:48.600
which is incredibly boring to most people is including me,

744
00:44:48.660 --> 00:44:50.070
is building code.

745
00:44:52.020 --> 00:44:55.590
It's really hard to alter the use of a building.

746
00:44:55.591 --> 00:44:59.340
So if it was used as a retail space to then go and use it as a gallery

747
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:03.870
legally, which now that we are knowing there's a bit more

748
00:45:06.270 --> 00:45:09.870
people look at what we're doing, including the council planning departments.

749
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:15.060
So to change a use of it, which is really,

750
00:45:15.090 --> 00:45:19.950
really hard and prohibitive to most people to have something that

751
00:45:19.951 --> 00:45:24.630
is a place of public assembly like here the

752
00:45:24.631 --> 00:45:28.680
access requirements, the fire requirements that eager us so great.

753
00:45:28.681 --> 00:45:30.090
And a lot of older buildings,

754
00:45:31.140 --> 00:45:35.490
the cost of upgrade would just it's completely would take off the cards.

755
00:45:35.490 --> 00:45:39.030
The cost of renting a building that already has that is also takes it off the

756
00:45:39.031 --> 00:45:42.750
cards. And I know that there,

757
00:45:42.810 --> 00:45:46.260
some of that is there for safety purposes and it's been thought three and I

758
00:45:46.261 --> 00:45:47.730
can't argue with it, but there is,

759
00:45:48.180 --> 00:45:52.020
there is interpretive room and there are practical solutions to some of the

760
00:45:52.021 --> 00:45:53.490
building code requirements.

761
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:59.100
And our advice to a lot of people now is hire a private

762
00:45:59.101 --> 00:46:03.690
certifier rather than use the free service

763
00:46:03.930 --> 00:46:08.640
because you will save yourself a lot of money because they will find

764
00:46:08.670 --> 00:46:13.320
solutions to do things, even give you building advice look at it practically.

765
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:19.080
And that that's a real problem for a lot of people.

766
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:24.840
So I think either some training it's like a human resources thing and how to

767
00:46:24.841 --> 00:46:26.460
look at that or just, you know,

768
00:46:27.030 --> 00:46:30.750
get rid of the building inspection service offered entirely and just give people

769
00:46:30.751 --> 00:46:32.460
money to get a private certifier.

770
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:37.230
I know that there is starting to be a shift in that I think,

771
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.860
but it is still a difficult process.

772
00:46:40.890 --> 00:46:42.900
It is completely unpredictable as to,

773
00:46:42.901 --> 00:46:46.830
what's going to come back that you need to do you and logistically it's,

774
00:46:46.831 --> 00:46:47.071
you know,

775
00:46:47.071 --> 00:46:50.730
I don't know how long it's going to take for anything either because if they

776
00:46:50.731 --> 00:46:55.230
come back with something else. And so that's a really hard one.

777
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:00.360
So I guess, yeah, resources training the other,

778
00:47:00.390 --> 00:47:04.920
probably not something that you can do easily and without a lot of backlash

779
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:06.630
is in Holland. They have,

780
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.370
I think it's Holland what they call a percent for dark

781
00:47:11.371 --> 00:47:16.170
tax, which is for building owners who, if you leave your prop,

782
00:47:16.200 --> 00:47:18.540
if you don't do anything with your property for 12 months,

783
00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:22.950
then you are taxed for that. So you might be awaiting approvals for development,

784
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:25.860
but in the meantime, what can you do to keep it alive?

785
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:31.810
So it's percent, you know, you might trying to lease it, which is, you know,

786
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:35.320
probably wouldn't get the tax, but you've gotta be actively trying to do it.

787
00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:37.780
I know that there are buildings around town,

788
00:47:37.781 --> 00:47:42.460
one in a really key location that they have a for lease sign on it on it's a big

789
00:47:42.461 --> 00:47:43.294
complex,

790
00:47:43.390 --> 00:47:48.280
but their rents are purposely set so high that no one

791
00:47:48.281 --> 00:47:51.280
would lease the space because they're not really interested in leasing.

792
00:47:51.281 --> 00:47:54.520
It it's there as a land banking opportunity.

793
00:47:54.790 --> 00:47:56.710
So yeah,

794
00:47:56.830 --> 00:48:01.600
that's that'd be a political fight to get that, but it's as a concept,

795
00:48:03.490 --> 00:48:06.610
as a concept, you know, it's, it's got some merit. So.

796
00:48:07.570 --> 00:48:10.950
<v John Hanlon>Now we're going to ask you guys one and can people who want to ask questions to</v>

797
00:48:10.951 --> 00:48:13.540
start lining up. Why give you want to ask the question?

798
00:48:13.541 --> 00:48:15.640
Can you please be by that microphone? And then I'll,

799
00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:17.320
I'll turn to you in two seconds.

800
00:48:18.810 --> 00:48:22.350
<v Peter Drew>I just wanted to agree with a couple of things that Jeff and Lily said. I mean,</v>

801
00:48:22.351 --> 00:48:26.130
the whole thing about empty buildings. I mean, there's a, there's a,

802
00:48:27.430 --> 00:48:31.800
it's a hobby in Adelaide for people my age to explore empty buildings because

803
00:48:31.801 --> 00:48:34.110
there's so many of them around town. And,

804
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:39.840
and when you realize that these individuals or companies are using them just

805
00:48:39.841 --> 00:48:44.430
as a sort of full financial means, keeping them empty, it's kind of

806
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:50.310
banks actually made a really interesting quote about it recently from the John

807
00:48:50.311 --> 00:48:53.310
Steinbeck novel rapes of graph,

808
00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:55.620
the graph is that it's a,

809
00:48:56.010 --> 00:49:00.960
it's a sin to have a fallow land sort of to have this assets and

810
00:49:01.380 --> 00:49:05.790
to let it sort of rot in front of everybody and

811
00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:08.670
yeah, in Adelaide is full of places like that.

812
00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:12.000
But I thought the signals of squat funny as well. I mean,

813
00:49:12.001 --> 00:49:16.020
I think part of being someone that lives in Adelaide is being good at sort of

814
00:49:16.050 --> 00:49:19.020
just figuring out when you can cross because the signals are just useless.

815
00:49:21.060 --> 00:49:24.330
And, and in terms of living in a house,

816
00:49:24.390 --> 00:49:27.360
I sort of imagined one day I might live in suburbia,

817
00:49:27.390 --> 00:49:32.250
but I just having come from living in Glasgow for a

818
00:49:32.251 --> 00:49:36.420
year more than happy to live in a flat, I think, I mean,

819
00:49:36.450 --> 00:49:40.320
that city has made out of sort of four-story tenements everywhere and you can

820
00:49:40.530 --> 00:49:45.210
just, you can walk everywhere. I got along just fine for a whole year without,

821
00:49:45.540 --> 00:49:48.890
without owning a car and then came back here and it's just like, oh,

822
00:49:48.950 --> 00:49:53.040
I'm gonna have to drive her everywhere. It's just, it's it's I mean,

823
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:57.660
urban sprawl that we will live. If it's not, it's not natural. It's sort of a,

824
00:49:57.690 --> 00:50:01.350
it's something that's just come out of the last hundred years. And it's, I mean,

825
00:50:01.351 --> 00:50:02.460
the whole idea of having a,

826
00:50:02.700 --> 00:50:05.940
every person owning their own little block of land or a little kingdom,

827
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:07.740
it's kind of a weird thing. And

828
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.610
I sort of remember it dawning on me at some point,

829
00:50:11.790 --> 00:50:13.890
like one's ever going have to have their own little patch of land,

830
00:50:15.240 --> 00:50:17.550
but in terms of what I do with straight up,

831
00:50:18.170 --> 00:50:22.890
I think the best thing that civic authorities can do is just have a sense of

832
00:50:22.891 --> 00:50:23.760
tolerance about it.

833
00:50:23.830 --> 00:50:28.400
Don't try to sort of push into a box in which it is all sort of

834
00:50:28.401 --> 00:50:29.234
completely.

835
00:50:30.910 --> 00:50:35.470
<v John Hanlon>We will not, we will not ask you for an application. I've got to go,</v>

836
00:50:35.500 --> 00:50:36.730
I've got to keep me just.

837
00:50:36.740 --> 00:50:39.730
<v Peter Drew>Quick one. I think I've got two quick ones,</v>

838
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:42.000
the splash Adelaide program project,

839
00:50:42.070 --> 00:50:45.160
the council's run where they help you run events in the city.

840
00:50:45.190 --> 00:50:48.040
They deal with the paperwork internally in the council road closures,

841
00:50:48.041 --> 00:50:51.880
things like that has been great. It's helped a lot of people, including myself,

842
00:50:52.120 --> 00:50:55.390
throw some really cool events. But as soon as you step outside special Adelaide,

843
00:50:55.420 --> 00:50:57.010
then you have to deal with the council from the front door.

844
00:50:57.040 --> 00:50:59.530
And it is a nightmare. It's impossible. And it takes a long time.

845
00:50:59.950 --> 00:51:04.510
So having some people in here having some sort of middle ground

846
00:51:04.511 --> 00:51:07.020
between the council supports event and oh yeah,

847
00:51:07.021 --> 00:51:08.650
you're gonna have to do all the paperwork from the start.

848
00:51:08.710 --> 00:51:11.470
And we have no idea what even needed fill out would be nice.

849
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:15.340
The second thing I'd like to suggest is public space.

850
00:51:15.341 --> 00:51:19.210
I know the new role edit Royal Adelaide hospital site is being transformed into

851
00:51:19.211 --> 00:51:19.721
public space,

852
00:51:19.721 --> 00:51:23.770
creating public space where people have the freedom to do random stuff rather

853
00:51:23.771 --> 00:51:25.810
than this is for you to book for a festival.

854
00:51:25.870 --> 00:51:30.220
And this is a new building for the casino and just creating space for

855
00:51:30.221 --> 00:51:32.050
improvised stuff to happen.

856
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:33.880
<v 2>Don, thank you.</v>

857
00:51:38.170 --> 00:51:38.230
[inaudible].

858
00:51:38.230 --> 00:51:41.350
<v John Hanlon>Questions. Please make them questions and not statements and more leg.</v>

859
00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:46.150
<v 7>Yes. Yeah. Okay. First question. Second question.</v>

860
00:51:47.140 --> 00:51:49.870
Well basically in all the things you've been talking about today,

861
00:51:49.871 --> 00:51:50.800
I didn't heard that here.

862
00:51:50.801 --> 00:51:55.780
The word Parklands and Parklands are something that Adelaide many people who

863
00:51:55.790 --> 00:51:58.120
live here think that that makes us a bit unique.

864
00:51:58.210 --> 00:51:59.860
I don't know whether that's quite so true,

865
00:51:59.861 --> 00:52:03.400
but I'm wondering what you actually think in the things that you're talking

866
00:52:03.401 --> 00:52:07.570
about today. What do the Parklands play? How can they play a role?

867
00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:10.300
<v John Hanlon>Do you have, do you want to give a quick answer to that? It was,</v>

868
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:11.170
it was wonderful to.

869
00:52:11.170 --> 00:52:14.140
<v Jeff Speck>Just whenever I'm going to a city for the first time, I'd get onto Google,</v>

870
00:52:14.770 --> 00:52:18.310
Google maps and check it out. And it was wonderful to discover this little,

871
00:52:18.370 --> 00:52:21.550
little Vienna floating and on the south,

872
00:52:21.551 --> 00:52:24.220
if you know what I'm talking about floating on the south coast of Australia,

873
00:52:24.221 --> 00:52:26.680
but the, the park ring you have around your city center,

874
00:52:26.681 --> 00:52:31.570
it's a beautiful diagram. And in fact, the I'm digressing now, but the,

875
00:52:31.740 --> 00:52:36.520
the city plan that you have the original right plan of

876
00:52:36.521 --> 00:52:40.030
the four squares each with its own park in the center.

877
00:52:40.330 --> 00:52:43.960
And then the central square that belongs to the whole central part of the city

878
00:52:44.140 --> 00:52:45.280
is a brilliant diagram.

879
00:52:45.370 --> 00:52:49.540
Reminds me of Savannah in the U S and I guess Philadelphia to a certain degree,

880
00:52:49.541 --> 00:52:50.800
but it's, you know,

881
00:52:50.801 --> 00:52:55.360
a great diagram never dies and that's supporting your city in a powerful way.

882
00:52:55.930 --> 00:52:59.950
I know one of the mayor's objectives and he's a planner and he's super smart

883
00:53:00.790 --> 00:53:03.130
is to reinforce that diagram.

884
00:53:03.910 --> 00:53:08.890
And that means to take those four smaller squares that you've got

885
00:53:09.850 --> 00:53:11.830
eat each of which has been under and the central one,

886
00:53:11.831 --> 00:53:16.150
each of which has been undermined to a greater or lesser degree by the desire to

887
00:53:16.151 --> 00:53:19.360
move cars through it, across it, around it, trimmed at the edges,

888
00:53:19.390 --> 00:53:22.510
cut through the middle and to reassert that diagram.

889
00:53:23.170 --> 00:53:25.650
And then speaking only to what I about,

890
00:53:25.651 --> 00:53:29.430
because I haven't seen the larger metropolis,

891
00:53:29.640 --> 00:53:31.950
but obvious, I don't think it's at any risk,

892
00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:35.670
obviously doing everything you can to reinforce the power of that ring that just

893
00:53:35.671 --> 00:53:38.570
makes your city so special. Thank you.

894
00:53:39.410 --> 00:53:40.370
<v 7>Yes. Hello.</v>

895
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:46.670
I was saying the bus about a month back to 20 year old

896
00:53:46.680 --> 00:53:47.660
sitting in front of me,

897
00:53:48.260 --> 00:53:53.120
who rather say at the loss of the Jade monkey music venue and that the

898
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:57.890
Jade monkey was quite an old not very attractive building,

899
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.390
but nonetheless very useful.

900
00:54:00.530 --> 00:54:04.700
What's going up in its place is a pretty staying at hotel.

901
00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:08.670
And one of the things that struck me,

902
00:54:08.780 --> 00:54:10.660
it's not just about the business's dock texts,

903
00:54:10.661 --> 00:54:14.660
but the business of any developer compensating for the loss of

904
00:54:15.680 --> 00:54:18.140
something that was already there and useful to the community.

905
00:54:20.300 --> 00:54:23.660
Two issues. We also had the same problem with the orange line market,

906
00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:25.370
which was destroyed.

907
00:54:26.570 --> 00:54:29.090
<v John Hanlon>Can you ask a question, sorry. I'm.</v>

908
00:54:29.090 --> 00:54:32.510
<v 7>Wanting to see a solution which sees that</v>

909
00:54:33.290 --> 00:54:34.340
developers

910
00:54:36.080 --> 00:54:38.810
great a venue every time they'd destroy a venue

911
00:54:40.460 --> 00:54:41.293
and

912
00:54:42.650 --> 00:54:45.950
getting away from this idea of one building one purpose,

913
00:54:46.190 --> 00:54:50.870
we haven't seen too much of mixed users the summit that has

914
00:54:50.871 --> 00:54:51.470
happened.

915
00:54:51.470 --> 00:54:55.010
So I'm wondering whether there's a specific ideas which are being used,

916
00:54:55.370 --> 00:54:59.540
whether that's compensation requirements or whatever other cities or in your

917
00:54:59.541 --> 00:55:01.490
experience, which allows that to happen.

918
00:55:02.030 --> 00:55:02.211
<v John Hanlon>Well,</v>

919
00:55:02.211 --> 00:55:06.890
maybe I can give a quick answer to that in the sense of totally agree with what

920
00:55:06.891 --> 00:55:08.330
you're saying in relation to that.

921
00:55:09.110 --> 00:55:12.590
I think you see that a lot more as happening in relation to what we're

922
00:55:12.591 --> 00:55:14.300
requesting now from developments of,

923
00:55:14.301 --> 00:55:19.220
in this state about what they have to bring back into our city and mix use is

924
00:55:19.221 --> 00:55:23.480
now being put into all of our planning processes and activation of ground floor

925
00:55:23.510 --> 00:55:25.280
and their interaction with public space,

926
00:55:26.030 --> 00:55:30.650
an absolute from here that all the changes that have just been made to the

927
00:55:30.651 --> 00:55:33.770
planning system. And I might just add anyone now, building in the city,

928
00:55:33.771 --> 00:55:36.020
anyone that builds anywhere in metropolitan Adelaide,

929
00:55:36.260 --> 00:55:38.810
if you build an apartment building now for every apartment,

930
00:55:38.811 --> 00:55:43.340
you have to pay $6,800 into the planning and development fund,

931
00:55:43.341 --> 00:55:46.910
which has put back into public spaces in the state. So for some developments,

932
00:55:46.911 --> 00:55:49.760
that's a million to a million and a half dollars that they need to pay that

933
00:55:49.761 --> 00:55:53.330
allows us then to spend on some of our open spaces, just as a general,

934
00:55:53.331 --> 00:55:55.790
but take your point in relation to that. Yes.

935
00:55:56.570 --> 00:56:01.190
<v 7>I agree with everything Jeff said about suburban development,</v>

936
00:56:01.550 --> 00:56:05.760
but I wonder if you could tell me what sort of problems there be when we build

937
00:56:05.830 --> 00:56:07.970
enormous unlimited height,

938
00:56:08.090 --> 00:56:12.890
high rises in the city in water known as

939
00:56:13.520 --> 00:56:15.860
catalyst sites, which can be anywhere in the city,

940
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.890
regardless of the surrounding levels of buildings.

941
00:56:21.530 --> 00:56:26.530
<v Jeff Speck>The height of buildings related to those around them is more of</v>

942
00:56:26.531 --> 00:56:29.920
an aesthetic discussion and more of a neighbor,

943
00:56:29.950 --> 00:56:34.000
neighbor discussion, certainly places change,

944
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:36.280
but their character's important.

945
00:56:36.640 --> 00:56:40.180
So I don't want to suggest that

946
00:56:41.710 --> 00:56:46.510
the character of a place as a lower rise neighborhood does not have

947
00:56:46.511 --> 00:56:50.080
value. When I then go on to say that I'm all for it,

948
00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:55.090
or at least in, in greater earth, in the, in the city center,

949
00:56:55.091 --> 00:56:59.590
in the places that are well-served by transit and one hopes

950
00:56:59.620 --> 00:57:03.580
cycling and walking where residents can hope to come

951
00:57:04.300 --> 00:57:08.860
without an automobile and have a fruitful lifestyle without an

952
00:57:08.861 --> 00:57:13.750
automobile. There's really very little to be said against the sky,

953
00:57:13.751 --> 00:57:16.720
being the limit for residential development. Thanks.

954
00:57:16.720 --> 00:57:18.580
<v John Hanlon>Jeff. Now we're going to run out of time.</v>

955
00:57:18.581 --> 00:57:21.100
I know this because they've got me on a strict timeframe, so I'm,

956
00:57:21.101 --> 00:57:24.880
ain't going to be allowed to let two more questions be asked, sorry,

957
00:57:25.330 --> 00:57:27.760
but I would ask those people want to ask questions,

958
00:57:27.910 --> 00:57:31.090
please speak to is outside of the room, but two questions.

959
00:57:31.120 --> 00:57:34.740
That's all we've got time for. Sorry. thanks.

960
00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:37.920
<v 7>I would hope you would say yes,</v>

961
00:57:37.921 --> 00:57:42.690
but does the panel really believe that we

962
00:57:42.691 --> 00:57:47.670
can design vibrant spices that welcome people?

963
00:57:48.600 --> 00:57:53.190
And the reason I'm asking is because much some of the things that I see is

964
00:57:53.191 --> 00:57:57.150
really around space has been designed Sundar public space,

965
00:57:57.230 --> 00:58:01.170
being designed and for the purpose of consumerism.

966
00:58:01.230 --> 00:58:03.540
And then there's a little mechanism there to bring,

967
00:58:03.570 --> 00:58:07.830
bring shoppers in instead of creating a space where people want to congregate

968
00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:11.400
naturally and then have perhaps other services, including shops.

969
00:58:11.720 --> 00:58:12.690
Do you want to have gardens?

970
00:58:13.980 --> 00:58:16.860
<v Lily Jacobs>Sorry. Yeah, no, I was thinking,</v>

971
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:20.130
I started thinking as you were asking the question, so I missed the question.

972
00:58:22.620 --> 00:58:25.680
<v 7>I'm just wondering whether w w if we sat around together,</v>

973
00:58:25.681 --> 00:58:28.890
could we actually really design a vibrant space?

974
00:58:29.910 --> 00:58:32.820
<v Lily Jacobs>I think that's what I was thinking about is the design part of it.</v>

975
00:58:35.520 --> 00:58:36.351
I don't know that,

976
00:58:36.351 --> 00:58:41.040
that you can just design it as much as kind of take away some of

977
00:58:41.041 --> 00:58:45.960
the barriers to it and make things sort

978
00:58:45.961 --> 00:58:49.380
of more attractive for people to test ideas or try new. I mean,

979
00:58:49.410 --> 00:58:50.970
from what we're doing it's activities,

980
00:58:50.971 --> 00:58:55.860
but make it easier for people to live is not always just

981
00:58:55.861 --> 00:58:59.670
a design solution as a sort of scaling back solution.

982
00:59:00.630 --> 00:59:04.440
But I think that the combination, I think it's possible. Yeah. Yeah.

983
00:59:06.090 --> 00:59:09.660
<v 7>I'm a transport engineer and are not evil people.</v>

984
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:14.640
I've got a lot of parking both in the city and also the suburban areas.

985
00:59:15.150 --> 00:59:18.120
And we obviously need to wean ourselves off this,

986
00:59:18.310 --> 00:59:22.610
a question to JF is how are we going to do this? I, and who do we blame?

987
00:59:22.611 --> 00:59:24.380
Do we blame the planning system that may,

988
00:59:24.830 --> 00:59:29.360
that we've got to have one car park for every 200 square meters

989
00:59:29.930 --> 00:59:32.090
everywhere except for a tiny or the CBD,

990
00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:36.650
or do we blind the population who screamed blue murder every time they have the

991
00:59:36.651 --> 00:59:39.680
prospect of paying for parking in a suburban area?

992
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:45.980
<v Jeff Speck>Or do you blame the financiers who will fund the</v>

993
00:59:45.981 --> 00:59:49.310
development of a new building, unless it's got parking provided,

994
00:59:49.850 --> 00:59:51.410
which I don't know if that's the case here,

995
00:59:51.411 --> 00:59:53.300
but that's certainly the standard in the U S.

996
00:59:53.810 --> 00:59:55.400
<v John Hanlon>And it's the case here. Yeah.</v>

997
00:59:55.580 --> 00:59:59.540
<v Jeff Speck>So, I mean, the, on the one hand,</v>

998
00:59:59.541 --> 01:00:03.410
you don't want to waste all the parking. You've got,

999
01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:07.190
you have a lot of investment that you've made in parking spaces,

1000
01:00:07.191 --> 01:00:08.270
in parking structures,

1001
01:00:08.271 --> 01:00:11.630
and I'm thinking in the CBD cause that's what I care about that you want to put

1002
01:00:11.631 --> 01:00:14.300
to use. And I'll talk about that. On the other hand,

1003
01:00:14.301 --> 01:00:15.740
the more you put that parking to use,

1004
01:00:15.741 --> 01:00:18.050
the more there's going to be people driving on your streets.

1005
01:00:18.680 --> 01:00:21.710
So the more parking you provide and you utilize,

1006
01:00:21.950 --> 01:00:24.890
unless people are just stowing the car for that trip to the Hills on the

1007
01:00:24.891 --> 01:00:25.724
weekend,

1008
01:00:25.940 --> 01:00:29.420
the more parking you provide and utilize the more pressure you're putting on

1009
01:00:29.450 --> 01:00:32.300
traffic within the streets themselves. So with the,

1010
01:00:32.330 --> 01:00:33.800
with the fear of that traffic,

1011
01:00:33.830 --> 01:00:38.750
I would say what we've had great success doing in a few American cities

1012
01:00:38.990 --> 01:00:42.080
is actually pooling the parking emptiness,

1013
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:45.410
pooling the void as an asset,

1014
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:47.930
which is then given to developers.

1015
01:00:47.990 --> 01:00:52.340
If they build a significant amount of housing nearby that parking lot,

1016
01:00:52.341 --> 01:00:56.060
thereby allowing them to meet their financing requirements while providing

1017
01:00:56.061 --> 01:00:59.390
parking, by providing parking that they don't have to pay for.

1018
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:02.210
And that can lower the cost of new housing by 20-30%,

1019
01:01:02.841 --> 01:01:06.290
which then allows it to be attainable to people who would come without cars.

1020
01:01:07.940 --> 01:01:09.800
<v John Hanlon>Ladies and gentlemen, I have to wind up again.</v>

1021
01:01:09.830 --> 01:01:11.630
Thank you all for coming along a heartbeat.

1022
01:01:18.070 --> 01:01:18.903
<v 2>[Inaudible] I highly.</v>

1023
01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:23.350
<v John Hanlon>Say and realise that Adelaide is actually going through a pretty exciting time.</v>

1024
01:01:23.530 --> 01:01:26.800
There is lots of things happening. You can see the new face,

1025
01:01:27.220 --> 01:01:29.890
be careful of the gorilla artists, the Pako,

1026
01:01:29.891 --> 01:01:33.670
a person who could jump past you somewhere in the street in Adelaide and a

1027
01:01:33.671 --> 01:01:36.490
person who's going to activate all those spaces again.

1028
01:01:36.491 --> 01:01:38.290
Can you thank them all very much for their time?

1029
01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:50.920
<v Intro>This session of the 2013 Adelaide Festival of Ideas was recorded by</v>

1030
01:01:50.921 --> 01:01:54.220
Radio Adelaide, through the support of the Vast mid library,

1031
01:01:54.340 --> 01:01:55.540
University of Adelaide,

1032
01:01:55.690 --> 01:01:59.800
The University of South Australia library and Flinders University library.