WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.580 I'm Faith Liddle, and welcome to the Festival of Ideas. 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:09.060 This session is on marriage and sex. 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:14.300 Not sex at dawn, as in the title of Chris Ryan's fabulous book, 4 00:00:14.380 --> 00:00:15.920 but sex at 10.30am, 5 00:00:16.220 --> 00:00:21.800 which may seem still a little early to be talking about such intimate matters. 6 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:24.080 But these are not just intimate matters, 7 00:00:24.180 --> 00:00:26.960 they are also essential ones in our lives. 8 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.460 And the powerful evidence and arguments you're about to hear 9 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:33.680 may well change the way you think about your own sexuality, 10 00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:38.020 your relationships and your attitudes about received wisdom. 11 00:00:38.740 --> 00:00:44.400 Chris Ryan is literally qualified to write about the science of human sexuality, 12 00:00:45.260 --> 00:00:47.640 with a BA in English and American Literature, 13 00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:53.180 and then an MA and a PhD in Psychology from Seabrook University in San Francisco. 14 00:00:53.380 --> 00:00:56.720 He's an international consultant in hospitals, 15 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.380 and a lecturer at the University of Barcelona Medical School. 16 00:01:00.620 --> 00:01:06.940 But he's also lived and worked in a variety of cultures and social settings, 17 00:01:07.220 --> 00:01:09.900 from teaching English to prostitutes in Bangkok, 18 00:01:10.220 --> 00:01:13.660 and self-defense to land reform activists in Mexico, 19 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:17.240 to managing commercial real estate in New York, 20 00:01:17.260 --> 00:01:20.480 and working with the Women in Community Service in San Francisco. 21 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:25.500 He's a well-rounded man, a well-rounded man with a mission. 22 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:29.740 Drawing from these and other multicultural experiences, 23 00:01:30.160 --> 00:01:35.860 his research has focused on trying to distinguish the human from the cultural, 24 00:01:35.960 --> 00:01:39.040 exploring the prehistoric roots of human sexuality. 25 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.540 This is a festival about planning in uncertainty, 26 00:01:43.860 --> 00:01:48.860 and Chris Ryan is a man with a richly researched and compelling new narrative 27 00:01:48.860 --> 00:01:53.220 about us as sexual beings, that through a certain enduring, 28 00:01:53.620 --> 00:01:55.060 and he would say damaging, 29 00:01:55.060 --> 00:01:55.440 assumptions. 30 00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:59.400 Some of them in some cases into the air, 31 00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:01.480 in some cases out of the window. 32 00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:05.140 He throws up new questions for us, 33 00:02:05.260 --> 00:02:08.580 he basically casts us all into new uncertainties, 34 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:10.700 but I think also, as you'll discover, 35 00:02:10.980 --> 00:02:14.920 also provides us with new kinds of freedom too. 36 00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:16.320 Chris Ryan. 37 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:17.280 Thank you. 38 00:02:19.580 --> 00:02:23.000 Thank you. Good morning. Am I on? Good. 39 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:27.560 I wasn't sure how to begin this morning's presentation 40 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.780 until about 4.30 this morning, 41 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:35.400 when the couple in the room next door started going at it, 42 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:39.680 and I was awakened to the sound of a woman in ecstasy, 43 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:42.400 and I thought, isn't that ironic? So interesting. 44 00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:47.480 So let's begin with a discussion of what scientists call female copulatory vocalization. 45 00:02:49.880 --> 00:02:53.400 It's a very dry phrase for something that 46 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:55.800 we all know and love. 47 00:02:56.340 --> 00:02:58.160 A show of hands, if you dare. 48 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:01.560 How many of you have heard a heterosexual couple having sex? 49 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.680 In the hotel room, the neighbors, God help us, our parents. 50 00:03:06.140 --> 00:03:08.280 Just about everyone, it seems. Okay. 51 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:12.080 In how many of those cases was the man making more noise than the woman? 52 00:03:15.760 --> 00:03:18.940 Not a one. Very interesting, isn't that? 53 00:03:19.140 --> 00:03:22.420 Now, this is just one of many different pieces of data 54 00:03:22.420 --> 00:03:26.640 that we recount in our book that point to the notion 55 00:03:26.640 --> 00:03:31.380 that human females are every bit as libidinous and sexual as the male, 56 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:33.740 despite what we've been told for thousands of years. 57 00:03:34.540 --> 00:03:37.400 You know, what we call the standard narrative in the book 58 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.260 posits that women are the discerning, passive, 59 00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:43.680 uninterested part of the equation, 60 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:47.120 and what they're doing is sitting back and choosing the best provider 61 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:51.260 from among their potential suitors, whereas the men are running around 62 00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:55.520 trying to, you know, hump every leg they can find, like little dogs. 63 00:03:56.920 --> 00:04:01.520 In fact, what you find if you look at the animal kingdom 64 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.420 is that the human female is one of a very few number of species 65 00:04:06.420 --> 00:04:11.340 in which she is willing and able to have sex 66 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:14.360 throughout her menstrual cycle and throughout her life cycle, 67 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.260 whether or not that sex could possibly lead to pregnancy. 68 00:04:17.700 --> 00:04:21.180 In fact, if you think of the number of times 69 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:24.260 you've had sex and divide it by the number of children you have, 70 00:04:24.420 --> 00:04:27.040 if you're the least bit lucky, you're going to find a ratio 71 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:28.320 of a thousand to one or more. 72 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.840 Most animals, the gorilla for example, a closely related primate, 73 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.240 the females have sex 10 to 15 times per birth, no more than that. 74 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:43.220 Most animals only have sex when the female is ovulating. 75 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:49.840 So we can begin with this insight into the nearly unique nature 76 00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:55.440 of human sexuality, particularly as it pertains to female ability 77 00:04:55.440 --> 00:04:58.420 and readiness to engage in sexual acts. 78 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:03.640 There's only a handful of other animals that share this quality with humans, 79 00:05:03.860 --> 00:05:08.020 chimps, bonobos and dolphins, all of which are highly intelligent, 80 00:05:08.320 --> 00:05:12.320 highly social beings, which further reinforces the thesis in our book, 81 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:15.300 which is that for human beings and these other species, 82 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:18.400 sex is not primarily about reproduction. 83 00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:22.240 You ask most people why we have sex, they say to have babies. 84 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:27.340 But only 1% or less of our sex acts result in babies. 85 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.540 And I'm sure all of us can think of some types of sex acts 86 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:33.580 that can't possibly result in babies, right? 87 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.900 And we engage in them with great enthusiasm. 88 00:05:37.640 --> 00:05:43.400 Okay, so this is the US hardcover and paperback version. 89 00:05:44.140 --> 00:05:46.240 We've got the Australian version outside. 90 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:47.100 Okay. 91 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:52.180 Let's talk about the standard model. 92 00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:57.600 All right, the standard model, which is a story we've all heard, 93 00:05:57.660 --> 00:05:59.760 the standard narrative of human sexual evolution, 94 00:05:59.900 --> 00:06:04.700 posits that at the heart of male-female interaction is an economic exchange. 95 00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:11.540 Men are trading something, meat, shelter, protection, status, 96 00:06:11.900 --> 00:06:18.380 to a woman in exchange for her fidelity, her sexual exclusive access to her, 97 00:06:18.380 --> 00:06:22.780 sexuality, and that's how men can assure their paternity 98 00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:24.200 of any children that result. 99 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:26.400 Now, according to the standard narrative, 100 00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:29.700 this is something that's always been at the heart of human nature, 101 00:06:30.380 --> 00:06:33.320 this male obsession with female sexual behavior 102 00:06:33.320 --> 00:06:37.000 as a way of controlling paternity, assuring paternity. 103 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:41.400 What Casilda and I argue in our book is that this obsession 104 00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:44.100 with female sexual behavior that we still see today, 105 00:06:44.180 --> 00:06:46.340 where women are being stoned to death in the desert 106 00:06:46.340 --> 00:06:48.140 for the crime of having been raped, 107 00:06:48.380 --> 00:06:49.820 right, it's still with us, 108 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:54.680 or slut-shamed in high school because she wore a skirt that's a little too high 109 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:57.640 or because she had a boyfriend that somebody didn't approve of, 110 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:58.760 we still see this happening. 111 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.780 But what we argue in the book is that this isn't human nature, 112 00:07:01.820 --> 00:07:04.420 this is a response to a particular economic situation 113 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:06.500 that our species found itself in 114 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:09.680 no more than 10,000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. 115 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:13.020 It's very difficult for us to understand how radically 116 00:07:13.020 --> 00:07:16.480 our societies changed with the advent of agriculture. 117 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:18.360 Pre-agriculture, we're talking about 118 00:07:18.380 --> 00:07:20.120 the times when people were living in hunter-gatherer bands, 119 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:23.900 no more than 150 people, everyone knew each other quite well, 120 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.640 and the central organizing principle of the hunter-gatherer band, 121 00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:32.560 whether we're talking about Aboriginal Australia or the Amazon 122 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.320 or the Inuits in Alaska, is sharing. 123 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.960 There's an African expression that Casilda told me, 124 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:43.140 the best place to store extra food is in your friend's stomach. 125 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:44.580 Right? 126 00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:48.260 This is a common, nearly universal trait, 127 00:07:48.380 --> 00:07:49.420 of hunter-gatherer societies. 128 00:07:50.060 --> 00:07:52.140 Now, you might think that I'm making the argument 129 00:07:52.140 --> 00:07:54.780 that our ancestors were noble savages, 130 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:56.660 this old tired argument. 131 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:57.940 I'm not. 132 00:07:58.140 --> 00:07:59.840 I'm not saying that they shared things 133 00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:03.120 because they were inherently more generous than you and I. 134 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:06.520 I'm saying that they shared things because it simply made more sense. 135 00:08:06.700 --> 00:08:09.760 It's a more efficient, effective way of organizing societies 136 00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:11.540 in a pre-agricultural world. 137 00:08:11.940 --> 00:08:15.460 In the post-agricultural world, where you have accumulated resources, 138 00:08:15.780 --> 00:08:17.720 you have a harvest that has to be stored 139 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:19.140 and protected and distributed. 140 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.320 You have a house that you've spent years building. 141 00:08:22.460 --> 00:08:26.020 You have livestock that you've spent your life cultivating 142 00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:27.140 and growing the herd. 143 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:31.160 You want to make sure that those things pass on to your children. 144 00:08:31.400 --> 00:08:36.060 So that's when it becomes important to control your wife's sexual behavior. 145 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:37.900 It's not human nature. 146 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:40.300 It's an economic response to agriculture. 147 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.620 That's why if you look in the Old Testament, 148 00:08:43.180 --> 00:08:44.460 the line we all know, 149 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:46.600 thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, right? 150 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:49.120 Seems like it's saying respect your neighbor's marriage. 151 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:51.820 But if you read it in context, it says, 152 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.560 nor his house, nor his servants, 153 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:59.860 nor his she-ass, I think is the actual word in the King James Version. 154 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:01.160 Nor his livestock. 155 00:09:01.400 --> 00:09:04.320 So it's about not coveting thy neighbor's stuff. 156 00:09:04.820 --> 00:09:06.760 It's not about respecting his marriage. 157 00:09:07.020 --> 00:09:10.280 So that's the standard narrative that we argue against in the book. 158 00:09:12.020 --> 00:09:14.540 People often say, well, how can you possibly know 159 00:09:14.540 --> 00:09:17.680 how our ancestors' sex lives functioned? 160 00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:19.200 There are no fossils of sexuality. 161 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.440 So we look at four different areas. 162 00:09:21.640 --> 00:09:25.400 We look at primatology, particularly chimpanzees and bonobos, 163 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:27.480 which are equally related to humans. 164 00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:29.980 They're by far the closest related to us. 165 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.280 In fact, they're more closely related to humans 166 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:35.780 than the Indian elephant is to the African elephant. 167 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:41.520 Okay, very, in terms of DNA and genetic drift, 168 00:09:41.620 --> 00:09:43.160 we're very closely related to them. 169 00:09:43.160 --> 00:09:45.440 Now, you'll often hear about chimpanzees, 170 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.220 particularly in a discussion of the primate origins of violence 171 00:09:49.220 --> 00:09:50.300 and things like this, 172 00:09:50.380 --> 00:09:53.400 and whether or not warfare goes back into prehistory. 173 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:58.800 But it's intellectually illegitimate to discuss these issues 174 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:01.020 only mentioning the chimpanzee, 175 00:10:01.020 --> 00:10:04.040 often termed our closest primate relative. 176 00:10:04.420 --> 00:10:05.160 It's not. 177 00:10:05.260 --> 00:10:08.540 As I was saying a few minutes ago in the green room, 178 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:12.160 it's like if you have a brother who's in prison for murder 179 00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:16.780 and another brother who's working in Sudan helping refugees 180 00:10:16.780 --> 00:10:18.960 and a completely selfless, wonderful guy, 181 00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:22.360 and when people talk about you, they only mention your brother in prison. 182 00:10:22.900 --> 00:10:23.460 Right? 183 00:10:23.540 --> 00:10:27.460 Chimpanzees are violent, there's warfare, there's rape, there's infanticide, 184 00:10:27.580 --> 00:10:29.940 there's all sorts of nastiness in chimpanzee societies. 185 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:35.020 But bonobos, in over 40 years of observation in the wild and in captivity, 186 00:10:35.380 --> 00:10:40.600 not a single case of infanticide, rape, murder, or lethal combat 187 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.140 between groups has ever been found. 188 00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:42.500 It's been witnessed. 189 00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:44.500 Now, I think that's relevant. 190 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:47.720 But when you read about these things, 191 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.780 you'll often hear chimpanzees, our closest relative. 192 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.140 There's a very political element to these discussions. 193 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:56.100 So I hope all of you will remember that. 194 00:10:56.280 --> 00:10:57.700 Bonobos are equally relevant. 195 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.480 Anthropology, we look particularly at societies that live, 196 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.800 presumably, more or less the way our ancestors did 197 00:11:05.800 --> 00:11:07.440 because they're pre-agricultural. 198 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:09.600 There aren't many of them left, 199 00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:12.140 but we access as much of them as we can. 200 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:14.380 We look at as much of the information about those societies as we can, 201 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:18.780 and we also look at first accounts from travelers and Jesuit missionaries 202 00:11:18.780 --> 00:11:20.980 and whatever sources of information we have. 203 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:24.020 What you find is that they tend to be pretty relaxed sexually. 204 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:27.180 And we can talk about that a little bit later in the Q&A 205 00:11:27.180 --> 00:11:29.040 if you want some examples of those societies. 206 00:11:29.860 --> 00:11:33.880 We look at comparative primate anatomy, physiological response, 207 00:11:34.460 --> 00:11:36.400 which we'll talk about in a few moments. 208 00:11:37.040 --> 00:11:40.120 Particularly, if there's anyone here who's easily embarrassed, 209 00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:41.740 I won't be. 210 00:11:42.160 --> 00:11:44.000 I'm not bothered if you get up and leave 211 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.600 because this could be pretty embarrassing 212 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:49.060 if discussion of testicles and things like that bothers you. 213 00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:52.640 And then, psychosexuality, what turns us on? 214 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.320 What sort of pornography are we interested in? 215 00:11:55.420 --> 00:11:58.240 What sort of issues do people come to 216 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:03.020 when they go to relationship counselors and things like that? 217 00:12:04.700 --> 00:12:06.960 Okay, so here, as I was saying, 218 00:12:07.060 --> 00:12:12.140 the line leading to chimps and bonobos 219 00:12:12.160 --> 00:12:16.540 split off from the human line about five to seven million years ago. 220 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:17.840 These things are very approximate. 221 00:12:18.100 --> 00:12:22.560 And then, the chimp and bonobo split one to three million years ago. 222 00:12:23.640 --> 00:12:26.120 So, you can see any other sort of... 223 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.240 We have the gorilla down here, 224 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:31.720 which is a harem-based alpha male system, 225 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:34.760 and the orangutan, which is dispersed, 226 00:12:35.140 --> 00:12:37.940 and the gibbon, which is the only monogamous ape. 227 00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:42.140 Now, a little bit more about the human line. 228 00:12:42.140 --> 00:12:43.580 We know about bonobo social life. 229 00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:45.220 We know about the chimp life. 230 00:12:45.380 --> 00:12:50.900 We've all read Jane Goodall and seen the documentaries on television. 231 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.660 The bonobo social life is very different. 232 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:54.720 It's female-centered. 233 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.100 You could even say female-dominated. 234 00:12:57.400 --> 00:13:00.940 But interestingly, the way females wield power 235 00:13:00.940 --> 00:13:03.660 is different from the way males wield power, 236 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:07.140 which leads to confusion in anthropological studies 237 00:13:07.140 --> 00:13:11.540 when anthropologists claim that there are no matriarchal societies in the world 238 00:13:11.540 --> 00:13:13.760 and there never could be and it's absolutely impossible. 239 00:13:15.060 --> 00:13:18.240 A lot of that is because they're expecting a matriarchy 240 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.420 to be a mirror image of a patriarchy. 241 00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:24.380 They're expecting to find women dominating men 242 00:13:24.380 --> 00:13:27.700 with their feet on their necks, the way men tend to dominate women. 243 00:13:27.920 --> 00:13:32.020 But what you find is that in societies where women have a lot of status, 244 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:35.420 equal or even greater than male status, as in bonobos, 245 00:13:35.520 --> 00:13:39.840 the society isn't organized around dominance. 246 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.720 It's much more collaborative and collective 247 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:48.520 and the males are, in general, far better off in such societies, 248 00:13:48.640 --> 00:13:50.600 both human and animal. 249 00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.300 Yes, do I have some applause there? 250 00:13:55.260 --> 00:13:58.420 I did an interview the other day for Men's Health magazine 251 00:13:58.420 --> 00:14:01.420 and at the very beginning, I don't know if you're familiar with the magazine, 252 00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:04.820 but it sort of centers on how to get laid, I think is the main... 253 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:07.820 And at the beginning of the interview, the journalist said, 254 00:14:07.880 --> 00:14:09.240 look, I'm really sorry. 255 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.060 I have to tell you from the get-go, 256 00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:15.560 this is going to be about how to use your book to get laid. 257 00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:17.860 I said, all right, we can work with that. 258 00:14:18.020 --> 00:14:21.600 So the whole article, I kept hammering the same nail, 259 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.600 which is, guys, if you want to get laid, 260 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.700 make women feel safe, comfortable, relaxed. 261 00:14:29.020 --> 00:14:32.940 Just because she's dancing provocatively doesn't mean she wants to be with you. 262 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:36.220 Just the way she dresses, she's not sending you any messages. 263 00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:39.220 Just chill out and things will work out fine. 264 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:44.140 I don't know if they'll hear the message, but I sent it. 265 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:50.040 Okay, so bonobo society is very low stress, very high sex. 266 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:55.060 The great primatologist, Frans de Waal, put it succinctly. 267 00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:57.880 He said that chimpanzees use violence to get sex. 268 00:14:58.340 --> 00:15:00.420 Bonobos use sex to avoid violence. 269 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:07.240 So there are two paths that our close relatives have taken very differently. 270 00:15:07.260 --> 00:15:09.220 No infanticide and murder, as I said. 271 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.820 And no sexually exclusive pair bonding. 272 00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:15.620 Now, you do find that among bonobos, 273 00:15:15.700 --> 00:15:17.800 we use the word promiscuous in our book. 274 00:15:17.880 --> 00:15:21.980 But we don't mean promiscuous in an uncaring, casual sort of sense. 275 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:25.180 What we mean is the original sense of the word, which is mixing. 276 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:27.480 It doesn't mean unfeeling. 277 00:15:27.540 --> 00:15:33.780 And bonobos are extremely emotional, extremely soulful animals. 278 00:15:34.700 --> 00:15:39.180 So in no way do we mean to say that bonobos or the anthropologists, 279 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.700 the anthropological studies that we discuss, 280 00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.480 we're not saying there's unfeeling sex. 281 00:15:44.620 --> 00:15:46.720 Remember, these people have known each other their whole lives. 282 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.140 So they've got multiple sexual partners, 283 00:15:49.700 --> 00:15:52.260 but they're very deeply connected to all of them. 284 00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:56.380 And there can be unique relationships, pair bonding. 285 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.260 We're not arguing that pair bonding doesn't happen in our species, 286 00:15:59.380 --> 00:16:01.280 or that there's anything wrong with it when it does. 287 00:16:01.800 --> 00:16:04.520 But we're saying it's not necessarily sexually exclusive 288 00:16:04.520 --> 00:16:06.560 in societies that don't demand that. 289 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:09.220 Now, bonobo sexuality features a lot of different types of sexual relationships. 290 00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:14.460 There's face-to-face sex, one of the only other species that do this, 291 00:16:14.520 --> 00:16:17.300 certainly one of the only primate species other than us. 292 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:18.840 Often female-induced. 293 00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:20.440 Females are quite libidinous. 294 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.520 All possible combinations except mother-son. 295 00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:25.720 That's the only combination you won't see. 296 00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:28.160 But interestingly, the mother-son relationship 297 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:32.360 is the most enduring, profound relationship among bonobos. 298 00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:35.800 In fact, a male's status in the male ranking 299 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.200 isn't determined by how big he is. 300 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:40.380 How strong he is. 301 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.240 How dominant he is over the other males. 302 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:44.660 It's determined by where his mother's rank was. 303 00:16:45.180 --> 00:16:45.860 Or is. 304 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:50.400 And his mother's rank is determined by how much the other females like her. 305 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:52.620 It's very interesting. 306 00:16:54.620 --> 00:16:58.180 So sex is used as an antidote to stress and conflict, as I said. 307 00:16:58.300 --> 00:17:04.020 And the ratio of sex acts to birth is 500 to 1 or more. 308 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:06.060 All right. 309 00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:08.800 Now, this is where easily embarrassed people need to leave. 310 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:10.480 Or cover your eyes at least. 311 00:17:10.540 --> 00:17:11.660 Because we're going to see 312 00:17:14.620 --> 00:17:19.440 what happens when you throw some food into a group of bonobos. 313 00:17:19.520 --> 00:17:21.660 Particularly apples, which they very much love. 314 00:17:22.020 --> 00:17:23.720 When you throw, as a comparison, 315 00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.620 if you throw some food into an enclosure of chimpanzees, 316 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:30.080 what happens is the dominant male, or the males, 317 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.040 will take control of the food 318 00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:34.480 and share it with their henchmen. 319 00:17:34.800 --> 00:17:38.040 And maybe if there's an ovulating female around, 320 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:40.380 she might get some because she's smelling pretty good. 321 00:17:40.580 --> 00:17:43.260 And depending how much there is, it might, a little bit, 322 00:17:43.300 --> 00:17:45.580 might filter down to the babies and the other females. 323 00:17:46.760 --> 00:17:50.060 That's what happens when you throw some food into an enclosure of chimps. 324 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.660 We're going to see now what happens when you throw some food 325 00:17:52.660 --> 00:17:54.400 into an enclosure of bonobos. 326 00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:24.860 We're going to look at these animals in the� 327 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:33.840 � 328 00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:34.020 � 329 00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:35.040 ! 330 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:38.040 It's a� 331 00:18:38.040 --> 00:18:38.760 Ah, bullshit. 332 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:42.820 Ah, bullshit. 333 00:18:44.060 --> 00:18:45.260 Ah, bullshit. 334 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:46.480 Ah, bullshit. 335 00:18:47.060 --> 00:18:47.280 Ah, bullshit. 336 00:18:47.560 --> 00:18:49.120 Ah, bullshit. 337 00:18:49.340 --> 00:18:50.540 Ah, bullshit. 338 00:18:50.580 --> 00:18:52.460 Ah, bullshit. 339 00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:54.540 Ah, bullshit. 340 00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:56.700 Ah, bullshit. 341 00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:56.960 Ah, bullshit. 342 00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:03.120 Ah, bullshit. 343 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:37.980 Ah, bullshit. 344 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:49.480 Ah, bullshit. 345 00:19:53.420 --> 00:19:53.820 Ah, bullshit. 346 00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:54.140 Ah, bullshit. 347 00:19:54.360 --> 00:19:54.540 Ah, bullshit. 348 00:19:54.540 --> 00:19:54.980 Ah, bullshit. 349 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:55.740 Ah, bullshit. 350 00:19:55.820 --> 00:19:55.980 Ah, bullshit. 351 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:56.460 Ah, bullshit. 352 00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:56.720 Ah, bullshit. 353 00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:57.520 Ah, bullshit. 354 00:19:57.860 --> 00:19:58.260 Ah, bullshit. 355 00:19:58.260 --> 00:19:58.660 Ah, bullshit. 356 00:19:58.660 --> 00:19:58.720 Ah, bullshit. 357 00:19:58.720 --> 00:19:59.060 Ah, bullshit. 358 00:19:59.100 --> 00:19:59.580 Ah, bullshit. 359 00:19:59.580 --> 00:20:00.960 Ah, bullshit. 360 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.100 Ah, bullshit. 361 00:20:02.120 --> 00:20:02.980 Ah, bullshit. 362 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:05.900 Ah, bullshit. 363 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:29.360 Ah, look at these dumb 364 00:20:29.360 --> 00:20:35.860 whatever, he stayed on the boat and wrote his notes. But he was very interested by sexual 365 00:20:35.860 --> 00:20:41.180 swellings in chimpanzees and bonobos. At the time Darwin was writing, no one knew a difference 366 00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:49.940 between the two because it made him question the central assumption that females are not 367 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:53.840 interested in sex and would never provoke sex, that they're just sitting back waiting for the 368 00:20:53.840 --> 00:20:58.480 men to fight it out and then maybe making some sort of decision. Because the sexual swelling 369 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:05.620 is obviously an invitation to sex. It provokes the males. And that didn't fit into his understanding. 370 00:21:08.620 --> 00:21:15.280 Our book is not at all trashing of Darwin or arguing against him or insulting him in any way. 371 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:21.160 In fact, I'm pretty sure that if he were alive today, he'd be the first to reassess his theories 372 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:28.180 in light of all the information that's come to light since he wrote in the 1860s. He was always 373 00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:28.460 very... 374 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:35.020 very dependent on data and very interested and very willing to throw over his theories if new 375 00:21:35.020 --> 00:21:41.460 information presented itself. And he knew about some of the alternative theories at the time from 376 00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:47.420 Lewis Henry Morgan and others, which you'll see if you read our book. Now, sexual swellings, 377 00:21:49.020 --> 00:21:55.900 you know, if you're like me, which I hope you're not for your sake, you look around and you just 378 00:21:55.900 --> 00:22:00.860 see horny primates everywhere. And I'm looking at you, I see a room full of horny primates. You 379 00:22:00.860 --> 00:22:07.500 know, some of you are in denial, some less so. But, you know, I look at something like this, 380 00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:15.420 I see chimpanzee sexual swellings. And it's not just in Victorian society. This still exists 381 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:22.720 today. Beyonce, does anyone know who Beyonce is? Or who's the other one who's famous for her butt? 382 00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:23.180 Sorry? 383 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:24.660 J-Lo. 384 00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:32.900 J-Lo. J-Lo. Casilda's daughter was visiting us. She's an adult. She's 23 now. She was 21, 385 00:22:33.060 --> 00:22:40.100 I think, a couple of years ago. I was working on the book. And she's very curvy. And of course, 386 00:22:40.100 --> 00:22:44.780 as her stepfather, I'm not supposed to notice that. But at one point she said, 387 00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:50.140 something, she lives in Africa with her father in Mozambique. And she said something about how 388 00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:55.580 she was dancing. And people said, she looked like J-Lo. And I thought she said, 389 00:22:55.900 --> 00:23:02.540 yellow. I said, you look like J-Lo when you dance? Is that an African thing? I don't know. 390 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:11.400 No, J-Lo, not J-Lo. Anyway, neither here nor there. But here we have the butt bra. 391 00:23:12.580 --> 00:23:18.560 Now, this is available online or in any fine lingerie distributor. What is the point of this? 392 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:25.880 Why would a woman wear a butt bra? You know, or get, what are they, you know, butt implants. I don't even know what they're called. 393 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:31.520 But they exist, right? Now, what is that appealing to, if not this primitive 394 00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:38.220 sexual swelling? You know, we can say, oh, it's just fashion. 395 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:43.060 But what is fashion? You know, dig, dig, dig, and you find chimpanzees and bonobos. 396 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:50.780 You know, why do women have what scientists insist on calling pendulous breasts? 397 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:55.120 Pendulous. There's no, 398 00:23:55.900 --> 00:24:00.700 there's no reason that we have, women have to have the fat cells in the breasts. 399 00:24:01.360 --> 00:24:05.940 Lactation does not depend on the presence of those fat cells. It's completely separate. 400 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:12.980 So there's really no convincing explanation for the presence of the female breasts other than 401 00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:19.120