WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.380 Hello everyone, welcome to RIOs here at the Science Exchange for the Adelaide Festival of Ideas. 2 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:10.220 Just a couple of housekeeping matters to start with. We'd ask that if you have a mobile phone 3 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:13.760 could you please switch it off or put it on silent for the duration of the session. 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:19.860 The bar isn't open today but there is water up on the bar that you can help yourself to if you 5 00:00:19.860 --> 00:00:26.540 need a drink and at the end of this session we will ask you even if you would like to stay for 6 00:00:26.540 --> 00:00:31.280 the next session we are clearing the auditorium in between sessions so if you'd like to come back 7 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.340 for the next session we'd love to see you again but we'll just have to ask you to go back out and 8 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:40.700 join the line and come back in again. And with that we'll hand over to Marianne who is our host 9 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:47.320 for this afternoon's session. Hello and welcome everyone to the 2011 Adelaide Festival of Ideas. 10 00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:53.060 I'm so pleased to see so many of you here today. We're turning people away so well done. I mean 11 00:00:53.060 --> 00:00:56.520 you're obviously intelligent, curious individuals because you're... 12 00:00:56.540 --> 00:01:02.480 you're here to talk and ask questions and express concerns about three main areas of technology 13 00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:07.880 that will affect your future and your children's future. Now for those of you who don't know I'm 14 00:01:07.880 --> 00:01:14.720 Marianne DeMacy the science reporter or one of the science reporters on ABC's science program 15 00:01:14.720 --> 00:01:19.840 called Catalyst and I'll be facilitating the session for the next couple of... well the next 16 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:25.420 hour or so. So I just want to gauge does everybody know who they're sitting with on their tables? I'll 17 00:01:25.420 --> 00:01:26.340 just give you 10 seconds. 18 00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:31.060 To turn around and introduce yourselves to the people you're with. Up there on the top. Turn to 19 00:01:31.060 --> 00:01:36.440 your left, turn to your right, introduce yourselves. Is everybody on the top level? Can they hear me 20 00:01:36.440 --> 00:01:46.480 now? Yeah? That's better? All right. This is a really great venue to exchange ideas. We're at 21 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:54.460 the Science Exchange of course and RIOs has been most gracious in hosting us. This is a really 22 00:01:54.460 --> 00:01:56.520 rare opportunity for the general public to be able to have a conversation with you. So I'm going to 23 00:01:56.540 --> 00:02:01.720 ask the general public to come face to face with scientists to ask the tough questions and to 24 00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:08.380 express concerns because these will be technologies that may or may not affect you in the future. They 25 00:02:08.380 --> 00:02:14.860 could be in a good way or it could be in a bad way. It's up to you to decide today and as I said 26 00:02:14.860 --> 00:02:20.720 really take advantage of this opportunity to ask the experts all the questions you can. I want to 27 00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:26.320 kick off today by introducing Dr. Stefan Hickovich. Is that how you pronounce it? 28 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:33.480 He wouldn't tell me how to pronounce his surname. He wanted me to embarrass myself. Give me a score 29 00:02:33.480 --> 00:02:45.480 out of ten. He's a two? Hickovich. Is that better? Stefan is the principal scientist at CSIRO who 30 00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:50.580 likes to think about how people make choices and plan for an uncertain future. So could you please 31 00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:56.520 welcome him to the stage? So thank you very much. It's really good for me to be back here. I'm 32 00:02:56.540 --> 00:03:04.620 actually spent the early part of my CSIRO career working at the CSIRO offices near Unley in a suburb 33 00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:09.620 called Glen Osmond I think it was which was a fantastic spot and I lived near the Hague's 34 00:03:09.620 --> 00:03:14.140 chocolate factory for quite a while which has mostly come off and I love being at the Ideas 35 00:03:14.140 --> 00:03:18.740 Festival. We had a Brisbane Ideas Festival recently as well and I had to do a talk there and my 36 00:03:18.740 --> 00:03:22.140 elder brother who lives down south found out about it and came here calling me and he said so 37 00:03:22.140 --> 00:03:25.480 someone up in Brisbane had an idea so you had a festival about it. 38 00:03:26.540 --> 00:03:33.560 Which is I'm sure you know that was pretty cruel but I'm sure the Adelaide Ideas Festival is not 39 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.460 about that. I'm sure there's lots of ideas down here already and there's no need to celebrate them 40 00:03:38.040 --> 00:03:41.640 but it is great to see such a big audience here to talk about science. 41 00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:48.500 So I'm on this ministerial advisory panel called NETS National Enabling Technology Strategy and 42 00:03:48.500 --> 00:03:52.780 it's a fantastic job. My colleagues are here today and we have this fantastic job to sit 43 00:03:52.780 --> 00:03:56.520 around and think and talk and write about the future of technology, how it's going to change 44 00:03:56.540 --> 00:04:01.600 the way Australians live and also what we can do about it to maximise the upside and avoid any 45 00:04:01.600 --> 00:04:06.860 risks. So it's a fantastic opportunity I've got on there. And we went for a walk down Gooja Street 46 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:10.480 yesterday to see many of the great restaurants that are in Adelaide. Is it true that Adelaide 47 00:04:10.480 --> 00:04:14.880 has more restaurants per capita than any other Australian city? I think it is and better ones 48 00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:21.340 too. I really do love eating here. Just not talk about barrels. That's what I've been told to do, 49 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:26.460 not talk about barrels. So seriously though, we were walking down, 50 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:30.400 we were walking down the Gooja Street and we found a tapas bar which was a really good one. 51 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:36.980 And we got this discussion going and it lasted most of the night. It was a debate and a fairly 52 00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:42.620 one-sided one. I had five versus one. I was the one. And we were talking about whether or not a 53 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:49.040 surfboard could be considered a form of technology. And I was sure it wasn't. And I would wonder 54 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:53.920 who in the audience here would call a surfboard technology? If you would, put your hand up. 55 00:04:54.780 --> 00:04:56.520 Who would not call a surfboard technology? 56 00:04:58.940 --> 00:05:05.800 Bugger. Well, why? So I'm going to have to have a rethink. But now I feel a lot more technologically 57 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:11.420 savvy when I get down there and go out for a surf because that's good. But to me, a surfboard wasn't 58 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:16.240 technology, nor was a fork, nor was a brick, nor was a piano that we walked past, Max. None of that 59 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:22.740 stuff was technology to me. Technology to me is my Blackberry, iPods, planes and fancy sorts of 60 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:25.640 stuff. So I'll have to have a bit of a think about what technology is. 61 00:05:26.540 --> 00:05:33.320 I'm too young. I'm older than I look. So I think my view of technology might have been a 62 00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:40.660 popularist one, informed by my mum. So a while back at Christmas, we bought mum an iPod. She's not 63 00:05:40.660 --> 00:05:45.800 really into technology. She opened up the packet and started to see what was in there. And she took 64 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.980 up here and she looked and said, oh, is it technology you've got me? And we kind of said, it 65 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:55.900 probably is. And the iPod now sits between the Russian doll and the portrait of the pope in the 66 00:05:56.540 --> 00:06:02.820 house. And both the pope and the doll get more use than the iPod. But it was interesting to see the 67 00:06:02.820 --> 00:06:07.220 effect of technology on her. And as you might have seen, I work at CSIRO. I've had a fantastic 68 00:06:07.220 --> 00:06:11.880 career over the last ten years in CSIRO. But I'm a little bit of an oddball in the organisation in 69 00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:17.640 that I'm a social scientist with severe Luddite tendencies. It's interesting about where I ended 70 00:06:17.640 --> 00:06:23.400 up. But I work amongst thousands of incredibly brainy people who build, live and breathe technology. 71 00:06:24.380 --> 00:06:26.520 We have flying robots that can go out and fix things. We have robots that can go out and fix things. 72 00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:32.040 Power poles without anyone knowing about it. We've had another team build invisible fences on farms 73 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:37.180 where the cows know where to walk and they all stay in the right bit. I think a bit secretly they get one or 74 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:40.680 two electric shocks if they wander on the wrong part. But we don't really talk about that part of the 75 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:47.400 technology. It's fantastic stuff about what it can do. So I've had this great journey in CSIRO. And in 76 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:53.400 CSIRO, one of my favourite holidays, I mean work projects, was in the Cook Islands. And this photo 77 00:06:53.400 --> 00:06:56.520 behind is showing us Rarotonga in the Cook Islands, which is a really beautiful place. And it's a 78 00:06:56.520 --> 00:07:02.400 beautiful place where I was put for a month. The only downside of being here was while I was there we 79 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:10.200 had these massive cyclones, four really big cyclones come across in the space of one month. And the 80 00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:15.360 I was there to work out the economic costs of water pollution, which wasn't related to the cyclones. 81 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:21.220 But on the arrival of the first night when we had the first cyclone, I was staying in a little hotel by the 82 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:26.500 side of the water. And my hotel manager was an old guy, a weather-beaten sailor from way back in the 83 00:07:26.520 --> 00:07:30.940 1980s. And he took it all very seriously. He bought himself a whole lot of bottles of whiskey and got 84 00:07:30.940 --> 00:07:38.340 completely hammered and left me to my own devices. So I bought a lot of tinned corned beef instead, which I 85 00:07:38.340 --> 00:07:44.820 think did a lot more damage, and some water. And we got through the first cyclone. Then there was another 86 00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:50.200 one which was category three, Cyclone Nancy, which was pretty awful. And Air New Zealand sent in an 87 00:07:50.200 --> 00:07:55.520 evacuation flight to get us all out before the next one came, which was Cyclone Olaf, which was a category 88 00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:56.280 five monster. 89 00:07:56.520 --> 00:08:01.120 And we were on the map of the whole Pacific. Everything was clouded with a dot in the middle. And this was 90 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:02.720 going to be a huge, huge cyclone. 91 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:11.620 So this huge plane came through the air, a Boeing 747, an incredible piece of technology. Came in and landed 92 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:16.760 on the runway. And it really moved us a lot, the thought that they had come and found us out there in the 93 00:08:16.760 --> 00:08:22.520 Pacific on this tiny little country. It barely stopped before it came off the edge of the runway. Everyone 94 00:08:22.520 --> 00:08:25.380 got on, turned around, took off. And I kind of missed it. 95 00:08:25.380 --> 00:08:31.480 And that's me photographing it going and wondering where I can buy some whiskey that night because I'm in a lot of 96 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:38.800 trouble. But it was an incredible piece. Why I love the photo, though, and what it does for me is the juxtaposition 97 00:08:38.800 --> 00:08:44.960 of this incredible piece of technology, which is worth more than the GDP of the whole Cook Islands, with the simple 98 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:50.920 mud huts behind it and basic ways of living, simple cooking instruments, basic lifestyles. And it is amazing how 99 00:08:50.920 --> 00:08:55.360 humans have progressed. I think a Boeing 747 and flight, jet travel, it's a great way to live. And I think it's a 100 00:08:55.360 --> 00:09:05.300 great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. 101 00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:12.900 It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. 102 00:09:13.060 --> 00:09:16.140 It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. 103 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:17.960 It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. 104 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:25.340 It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. It's a great way to live. 105 00:09:25.340 --> 00:09:30.280 in the sky watching movies and sipping tea. I find it fascinating. What I'd love to do 106 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:34.800 for an experiment would be to get this technology and bring it back 200 years and show it to 107 00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:39.280 the first fleet who arrived in Australia. After their year-long, something like year-long 108 00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:44.940 voyage losing a third or a quarter of their crew to disease and accidents, they arrived 109 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:48.660 after a perilous journey. Well, imagine if you could show them the inside of the Qantas 110 00:09:48.660 --> 00:09:58.080 A380, taking that trip with a stop in Singapore, a 24-hour trip to get to Brisbane. So I think 111 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.480 that is an incredible change we've seen in 200 years. What about the next 200 years, 112 00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:06.660 though? The rate of technological progress has not slowed. It's advanced, and it's moving 113 00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:11.220 us into new areas. The one that's caught my attention lately and was the one at the Brisbane 114 00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:17.120 Ideas Festival was about telomerase. This was discovered by Elizabeth Blackburn, who 115 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:18.640 won the Nobel Prize for it. She's a Tasmanian. 116 00:10:18.660 --> 00:10:22.160 She's a Tasmanian-based scientist, which is a great thing, and she's got the Nobel 117 00:10:22.160 --> 00:10:27.800 Prize for finding out the enzymes that control the ageing process in our cells called telomeres. 118 00:10:27.980 --> 00:10:31.860 Now they manipulated them in mice, and they've got some old mice and made them young again, 119 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.520 and they can do it in humans potentially, maybe. This sort of goes outside my expertise, 120 00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:40.900 so you need to Google this and look it up on Wikipedia to be sure, but I think it means 121 00:10:40.900 --> 00:10:46.680 we can all be young and beautiful again, is what I read anyway, via the manipulation of 122 00:10:46.680 --> 00:10:48.520 telomeres. But I understand there's a downside. 123 00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:52.620 There's a downside to the technology, and it gives us cancer instead. So don't rush 124 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:57.500 off and get it done straight away. There might be a workaround, though. So technology is 125 00:10:57.500 --> 00:11:01.880 great, but I don't think we ever escape being human. Steve Jobs was a brilliant human who 126 00:11:01.880 --> 00:11:06.040 changed the world we live in and will always be remembered throughout history. His journey 127 00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:13.840 was the iPod, iPhone, iPad, then I died. Technology can't stop that, even for someone like him. 128 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:17.460 But there is a flip side. Technology can sometimes hold it off. 129 00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:23.120 Many here in the audience today, I was a cesarean section birth, and my kids were as 130 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:27.940 well. And I think the technology that surrounds C-section birth is incredible. What that medical 131 00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:33.240 team did in the Wesley Hospital in only 10 minutes is something we'll remember for the 132 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.560 rest of our lives, and it's really humbling to think of how technology and those skills 133 00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:43.300 came together to give us our children. And everyone has a lot of moments with their children. 134 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:47.100 Pushing Madeline on the swing, playing soccer with the kids, the sorts of things everyone 135 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:47.540 does. 136 00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:52.200 The kids don't have anything to do with the technology, but had that technology not existed, 137 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:58.620 they wouldn't be there, nor would I. So technology can make things possible that are intangible 138 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:00.040 and beautiful and not technological. 139 00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:05.040 So now I want to hand over to my colleagues to explore where some technologies will take 140 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:11.680 us. The question I have is, are we using these technologies to take us where we want to go, 141 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.260 or are they taking us somewhere, or is it a bit of both? So maybe reflect on that as 142 00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:18.500 we see some of the fascinating presentations about new technologies. 143 00:12:18.520 --> 00:12:21.020 Thank you very much and have a great day. 144 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:30.560 Thank you, Stefan, for that thought-provoking talk. You made a point about how the rate 145 00:12:30.560 --> 00:12:35.340 of technology advancements is increasing, and if we look at technology 50 years ago 146 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:39.500 and think about how technology will change in the next 50 years, the sky's the limit. 147 00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:45.640 It'll be interesting to see how everybody feels about science and technology. You've 148 00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:48.500 got clicker pads in front of you. So let's take a look at the first one. This is a little 149 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:53.740 bit of a quick survey now, and we'll compare this survey to how you feel about science 150 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:57.960 and technology at the end of this session and see whether or not you feel more passionate 151 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:02.600 about it, whether you feel more anxious about it, or whether or not it's just confirmed 152 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:03.200 your thoughts. 153 00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:11.760 So with your clicker pads at the ready, the first question is, which of the following 154 00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:17.940 three statements best sums up your attitude? Let's get this going. 155 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.700 Which of the following three statements best sums up your attitude towards the developments 156 00:13:24.700 --> 00:13:31.960 in science and technology? You've got 10 seconds to answer. You can register that on your clicker 157 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:32.080 pad. 158 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:33.960 It's the one with one small... 159 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:40.180 Yep. Is it? You want me to read through them? Number one, science makes a very positive 160 00:13:40.180 --> 00:13:45.240 contribution. Science has both positive and negative impacts on society, while science 161 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.480 largely has a negative impact on society. How do you see that? 162 00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:48.900 How do you feel? 163 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.900 Everyone happy with their answer? Go to the next one. 164 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:04.960 Oh, we'll look at the result. Okay, so 60% of you believe that it has both positive and 165 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:10.800 negative impact on society. Many of you believe it has a positive contribution. There's some 166 00:14:10.800 --> 00:14:13.780 of you that think it has a negative impact on society. 167 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:16.340 Oh. 168 00:14:17.540 --> 00:14:18.480 I believe it has a positive contribution. 169 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:23.380 I believe that if you want to change your mind, you can just press another number and 170 00:14:23.380 --> 00:14:29.020 it will take the last number as your answer. Yeah? All right. Next question. 171 00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:36.980 Which best describes your general attitudes towards the potential implications of enabling 172 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:45.900 technologies like biotechnology and nanotechnology? Do you feel excited, hopeful, neutral, concerned, 173 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:46.680 or alarmed? 174 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:48.460 Okay. 175 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:51.020 Let's have a look at the results. 176 00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:56.460 Work. 177 00:14:56.820 --> 00:14:57.300 Ah. 178 00:14:58.840 --> 00:14:59.460 Hang on. 179 00:15:03.260 --> 00:15:04.380 Technology's not great, is it? 180 00:15:06.300 --> 00:15:15.160 All right. So about half of us feel hopeful. Many of us are excited. No one's alarmed about 181 00:15:15.160 --> 00:15:18.460 it. There's a few that are concerned. Does anyone want to express some concern? 182 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:20.820 Who pressed concerned? 183 00:15:21.040 --> 00:15:21.380 Yep. 184 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:24.060 Yep. 185 00:15:24.140 --> 00:15:29.640 We've got an expert in nanotechnology coming up on the panel next. So you can address some 186 00:15:29.640 --> 00:15:30.340 of those concerns. 187 00:15:31.020 --> 00:15:31.540 Okay. 188 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:32.460 Let's go to the next question. 189 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.740 Who should be the primary decision makers about permitting the use of enabling technologies? 190 00:15:37.660 --> 00:15:45.660 Should it be the scientists? Should it be regulated by the industry? Non-elected government 191 00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:46.060 regulators? 192 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:48.440 Should it be the scientists? Should it be the industrial companies? 193 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:49.640 Elected government regulators? 194 00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:53.120 Oops. 195 00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:56.120 Did we even vote? 196 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.460 Can we go back and start again? 197 00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:06.920 They're elected. 198 00:16:07.180 --> 00:16:08.320 In the unsure category. 199 00:16:10.900 --> 00:16:14.940 Now, if I press forward, who's... 200 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.040 So have you cleared the data? 201 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:20.800 OK. 202 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:22.620 We'll go to the next one. 203 00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:24.520 This technology really is failing us. 204 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:29.900 All right, so that was the last of our questions, I believe. 205 00:16:30.300 --> 00:16:31.500 Yeah? All right. 206 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:36.640 Let's get to the first scenario here. 207 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:38.440 This is about regenerative medicine. 208 00:16:38.760 --> 00:16:41.940 What we'll have is a two-and-a-half-minute video. 209 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:43.880 It will explain what it's about. 210 00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:47.160 And then we'll get an expert panel up on the stage 211 00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:48.040 to answer all your questions. 212 00:16:48.160 --> 00:16:49.180 So if we could cue the video. 213 00:16:50.900 --> 00:16:52.060 We're all getting old. 214 00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:54.040 Yes, even you. 215 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.120 More and more of our population are over 60, 216 00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:59.420 some living well into their 90s. 217 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:01.340 And as we live longer, 218 00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:04.800 our joints, organs and tissues begin to fail, 219 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.100 thereby diminishing the quality of our old age, 220 00:17:08.620 --> 00:17:11.860 not to mention the societal cost of lost productivity 221 00:17:11.860 --> 00:17:13.660 and long-term care. 222 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.680 Our current medical technologies allow for extraordinary feats 223 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.440 of augmentation and replacement, 224 00:17:21.860 --> 00:17:25.260 transplantation, pacemakers and artificial joints. 225 00:17:27.040 --> 00:17:29.360 Regenerative medicine goes further, 226 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:32.320 promising the repair of dysfunctional body parts 227 00:17:32.320 --> 00:17:34.600 with our own living tissue. 228 00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:37.340 Many species can regenerate. 229 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:42.040 A salamander can regrow its limbs, tail and even its eye. 230 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.600 But sadly, only a few bits of us, like a healthy liver, 231 00:17:47.760 --> 00:17:49.120 can perform that trick. 232 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:53.140 Coaxing the rest of our body to do it requires more effort. 233 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.340 3D-printed biomaterial scaffolds, 234 00:17:58.080 --> 00:17:59.860 coated with layers of the patient's cells 235 00:17:59.860 --> 00:18:02.320 and cooked up in a body-mimicking oven, 236 00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:06.340 can produce viable veins, bladders and bone. 237 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:10.720 And more complex organs like kidneys aren't far away. 238 00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:13.460 Adult stem cells, 239 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:15.400 while proving difficult to tame, 240 00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:19.660 promise injectable repairs for conditions like multiple sclerosis, 241 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:24.320 type 1 diabetes, heart disease and rheumatoid arthritis. 242 00:18:26.300 --> 00:18:28.440 Techniques incorporating nanotechnology 243 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.120 are also targeting spinal injuries, 244 00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:34.400 joint degeneration and failing organs. 245 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:39.000 But in a world already burdened with overpopulation, 246 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.940 is it even ethical to invest and encourage extended longevity? 247 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:49.120 Will our culture slow or stagnate without retirement or death of the old guard? 248 00:18:53.300 --> 00:18:56.480 Whilst our expert panel assembles on the stage, 249 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:01.100 we'll do a quick survey on how people feel about the video that they've watched. 250 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.740 So if you get your clicker pads ready, 251 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:08.460 there's a response to whether or not you think that regenerative medicine 252 00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:11.800 would likely change the way you live by 2020 253 00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:13.860 or would not likely change the way you live by 2020. 254 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.200 OK, so the response. 255 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.720 OK, so many of you will believe that it would change the way you live by 2020. 256 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.480 47% wouldn't. 257 00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:30.680 Keith, would you like to comment? 258 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:35.400 Well, I think those numbers are probably what I'd have expected. 259 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:36.520 I think there is... 260 00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:38.200 I mean, as I look at it, 261 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.960 I think this is one of the most exciting areas in science at the moment. 262 00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:43.680 It's about bringing together... 263 00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:47.100 people from a whole range of disciplines 264 00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:50.800 to tackle clinically relevant and important issues. 265 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:52.280 And it's not just about ageing. 266 00:19:52.300 --> 00:19:55.460 I think that a lot of what regenerative medicine is about, 267 00:19:55.540 --> 00:19:57.900 and regenerative medicine comes in many forms, 268 00:19:58.120 --> 00:20:00.600 whether it's stem cell biology or tissue engineering, 269 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:07.320 even bringing together biological and pharmaceuticals with devices and things. 270 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:11.700 It's a very large area, but I think it's a very exciting one, 271 00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:13.400 and it can actually start to tackle... 272 00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:17.140 diseases that we really don't have a clinical answer for at the moment. 273 00:20:17.300 --> 00:20:20.940 And that's what I think is more exciting than the fact that, you know, 274 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.760 I might get hip replacement and can still play golf when I'm 90. 275 00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:26.580 I think it's much more exciting to me, 276 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:31.780 and people in my team are working on things like methods to help, you know, 277 00:20:31.780 --> 00:20:33.100 kids with type 1 diabetes. 278 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.200 Can we bring cells together with materials, for instance, 279 00:20:36.460 --> 00:20:37.900 implant those in the body, 280 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.920 and restore the ability to treat things like type 1 diabetes? 281 00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:43.440 So, to me, that's where the... 282 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.140 the real excitement is, meeting unmet clinical need. 283 00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:46.660 Mm-hmm. 284 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.680 So, an introduction to you. 285 00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:50.540 Keith... 286 00:20:50.540 --> 00:20:52.280 Dr Keith McLean is the leader, 287 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:55.880 theme leader in biomaterials and regenerative medicine 288 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.580 at Syros Materials Science and Engineering. 289 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.600 We've also, on the panel, got Professor Max Liu, 290 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:08.820 who has a technical expertise and insight into nanotechnology and biotechnologies, 291 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.720 and also Professor Sue Dodds. 292 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:13.420 She will provide some... 293 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.560 some legal and ethical issues about this type of technology. 294 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:22.000 So, let's open the floor now to a discussion about regenerative medicine. 295 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.420 Does anybody have any questions to start the discussion off? 296 00:21:26.520 --> 00:21:27.040 No? 297 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:27.720 Nobody wants to? 298 00:21:27.820 --> 00:21:28.640 Up at the front here? 299 00:21:28.820 --> 00:21:30.180 We'll just wait for the microphone. 300 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:31.240 We've got a roving microphone. 301 00:21:31.660 --> 00:21:32.340 The timing. 302 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:36.260 Every time you see an announcement about regenerative medicine, 303 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:38.920 it is at least 10 years in the future. 304 00:21:39.060 --> 00:21:40.740 This is 2011. 305 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:43.420 So, 2011. 306 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:44.180 So, we're in 2020. 307 00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:48.880 Where will we be then that makes it so different? 308 00:21:49.820 --> 00:21:50.880 Keith, would you like to answer that? 309 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:51.780 Well, that's a very good question. 310 00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:53.780 And I mean, you know, there's always a bit of... 311 00:21:53.780 --> 00:21:57.580 There's always a lot of hope and hype in a lot of this stuff. 312 00:21:57.620 --> 00:22:01.320 But I think we are now starting to see, for instance, in the area of cell therapies, 313 00:22:01.540 --> 00:22:07.840 we're now actually starting to see cells being applied in a number of early clinical trials. 314 00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:13.160 Recently, there's been, you know, reports of embryonic stem cells being implanted, 315 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:13.420 and so on. 316 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.880 And in the phase one clinical trial by Geron in the US, 317 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:21.280 people are using stem cells in areas like treating macular degeneration, 318 00:22:21.620 --> 00:22:22.780 again, very early stage. 319 00:22:23.060 --> 00:22:28.220 I think within Australia, we should be exceptionally proud that we have in Musa Blast, 320 00:22:28.300 --> 00:22:30.780 the largest stem cell company in the world, 321 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:36.840 using adult stem cells in a number of conditions in phase two and phase three clinical trials. 322 00:22:36.940 --> 00:22:42.000 So, I think there is great hope in that sort of cellular therapy area. 323 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:48.200 But I think also in other parts of regenerative medicine, in tissue engineering, 324 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:54.440 there are already examples of people who are having materials implanted in the body 325 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.500 that carry their own cells, for instance. 326 00:22:56.800 --> 00:23:02.900 There's a recent case of implantation of material developed in King's College in London 327 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:07.820 where the patient's own stem cells being used in a tracheal replacement. 328 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:11.220 So, there are things coming into the clinic. 329 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:16.240 And at the same time, some of the traditional approaches to regenerative medicine 330 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:21.280 around implantable materials for things like hips and things, 331 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:26.020 there's a lot of work going on at the moment to make those materials much more responsive. 332 00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:31.000 So, 50 years ago, when materials first were implanted in the body, 333 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:35.020 you basically wanted something that was inert and that the body didn't respond to. 334 00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:38.580 It didn't want to sort of wall it off. 335 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.020 And it basically was there as a... 336 00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:41.940 It was a mechanical support. 337 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:46.280 Now we're starting to work on materials that actually incorporate biological signals 338 00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:49.040 so that if you put that material into the body, 339 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:51.800 you may actually help to recruit cells that will repair. 340 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:55.200 You may use it to deliver growth factors, for instance. 341 00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:58.480 You may use it to deliver small molecules. 342 00:23:58.840 --> 00:24:03.860 So, I think there is, you know, there's always a great expectation 343 00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:07.560 and often there is a lot of hype associated with these things. 344 00:24:07.620 --> 00:24:08.960 But I think there are definitely... 345 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.000 There is definitely progress being made 346 00:24:11.020 --> 00:24:14.540 and that things will change in the next few years, I'm pretty sure. 347 00:24:14.860 --> 00:24:17.060 So, just picking up on that, Max, 348 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:23.260 can you describe how sophisticated these scaffoldings they use in regenerative medicine are? 349 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:24.200 Okay. 350 00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.640 My background is from nanotechnology. 351 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.480 I'm not an expert in regenerative medicine per se, 352 00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:35.140 but I think what is exciting to me is the emergence of nanotechnology 353 00:24:35.140 --> 00:24:37.880 and also genetic, you know, human genome and genetic engineering 354 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.000 will catalyse or accelerate the development of nanotechnology. 355 00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:42.080 So, I think that's a very important part of tissue engineering. 356 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:46.320 The promise of tissue engineering to replace the whole body organs 357 00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:48.900 has not been realised so far, 358 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.900 but the tissue scaffolds built by nanotechnology 359 00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:56.180 will enhance the growth of the cells 360 00:24:56.180 --> 00:25:01.700 and therefore also will give you the ability to deliver proteins, 361 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:06.600 other nutrients without any infection 362 00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:09.880 and also inhibiting or reducing 363 00:25:11.020 --> 00:25:11.180 the bacterial response. 364 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:14.680 So, that's where the nanotechnology's promise is. 365 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.660 I think, you know, it always takes time 366 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:21.200 when you want to deliver a new drug or a new therapy. 367 00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:23.120 Because of the regulatory framework, 368 00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:25.900 I think we have experts and diaries in the audience. 369 00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:31.120 So, I think a 10-year timeframe in medicine is very short. 370 00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:34.120 I think a lot of the blockbuster drugs came out 371 00:25:34.120 --> 00:25:37.620 probably after 20 years of continuous discovery and development. 372 00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:40.340 So, but nanotechnology has promised 373 00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:43.220 to catalyse or to accelerate that development. 374 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:45.640 Sue, do you think we'll see changes in regulation 375 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.480 of the use of these stem cells in these types of technologies? 376 00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:51.780 Well, Diana would be the expert on the regulatory frameworks, 377 00:25:52.020 --> 00:25:55.580 but I certainly think that we'll have to ask some questions 378 00:25:55.580 --> 00:25:57.920 about whether our existing regulatory frameworks 379 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.560 stretch very well into the areas 380 00:26:00.560 --> 00:26:04.380 where we've got new ways of integrating devices 381 00:26:05.020 --> 00:26:09.520 like the nanostructured scaffolds with our own cells. 382 00:26:09.520 --> 00:26:13.260 Because we don't, at the moment, have much difficulty 383 00:26:13.260 --> 00:26:15.400 with recognising if you take some cells out of me 384 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:16.460 and you put them back into me, 385 00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:18.040 that that doesn't require specific regulation. 386 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.900 But the question about how we bring these things together 387 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:24.720 would certainly be an issue which might require further regulation. 388 00:26:25.100 --> 00:26:27.640 But Diana may have anything she wants to add to that. 389 00:26:28.360 --> 00:26:29.400 Would you like to add something? 390 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.540 I think, from my perspective... 391 00:26:32.540 --> 00:26:35.360 Just wait for the microphone so that people up the back can hear. 392 00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:39.280 From my perspective, what Sue was saying is absolutely correct. 393 00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:41.960 At the moment, these type of applications 394 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.360 are regulated by the Therapeutic Goods Administration, 395 00:26:44.660 --> 00:26:46.400 which has very distinct classes 396 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:49.520 between what is a therapeutic good and what is a medical device. 397 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.060 So when we start to see a blurring between these two categories, 398 00:26:53.280 --> 00:26:54.940 that's when we're going to have issues 399 00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:57.320 over the effectiveness of such a regulatory framework. 400 00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:00.600 So these things are regulated and they will continue to be regulated, 401 00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:03.940