WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.900 Welcome to this year's Mitchell Oration, which is, of course, an oration given each year in honour 2 00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:13.860 of Dame Roma Mitchell, lawyer, first chair, I believe, of the Human Rights Commission, 3 00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:24.240 and governor of this state. Giving the oration this year is Larissa Berendt, who is the professor 4 00:00:24.240 --> 00:00:30.640 of law and director of research at the Jumbana Indigenous House of Learning at the University 5 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:37.140 of Technology, Sydney. The list of things she is and does is as long as your arm, and it's all in 6 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:43.880 the program there. But she is also chair of the Bangarra Dance Theatre, and she's a novelist, 7 00:00:44.580 --> 00:00:48.840 with at least a couple of novels to her credit, a couple of prize-winning novels to her credit. 8 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:54.020 She's also, of course, a fighter for human rights. Ladies and gentlemen, Larissa Berendt. 9 00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:08.220 Thank you, David. I'd like to start by acknowledging the Kaurna people on whose land we're meeting today. 10 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:13.860 On behalf of David and myself, I'd like to acknowledge their elders, past and present, 11 00:01:14.020 --> 00:01:19.300 and their responsibility for keeping culture strong on this land. I was lucky to have been 12 00:01:19.300 --> 00:01:23.980 in Adelaide for most of this week, and have enjoyed my visit with members of the 13 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:24.220 Kaurna people. I'd like to acknowledge the Kaurna people, and their responsibility for keeping 14 00:01:24.220 --> 00:01:24.320 culture strong on this land. I'd like to acknowledge the Kaurna people, and their responsibility for keeping 15 00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:25.040 Kaurna people, and their responsibility for keeping culture strong on this land. I'm a Kaurna community, 16 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:31.260 and would really like to thank them for making me feel so welcome here. I'd also like to thank 17 00:01:31.260 --> 00:01:36.780 the Equal Opportunity Commission and the festival for inviting me to give this lecture. It's, of 18 00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:43.800 course, a huge honour to give a lecture like this that commemorates the life and work and the 19 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:50.660 contribution made by Dame Roma Mitchell. Such a trailblazer for women, human rights activists, 20 00:01:51.260 --> 00:01:54.200 people like myself, and in particular, for the Kaurna people. I'd like to thank the Kaurna people, 21 00:01:54.200 --> 00:02:01.820 And in particular, I'd like to focus my discussion today on the importance that she saw in her role as 22 00:02:01.820 --> 00:02:06.120 the head of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission, which was always 23 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:11.560 as she wrote, you probably appreciate one of the things that she was very excited about 24 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:17.640 and believed in as part of her campaign for human rights, and talk about the importance 25 00:02:17.640 --> 00:02:24.080 of human rights activism and human rights education. And I'm sure she wouldn't mind if I just take 26 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:24.180 And I'm sure she wouldn't mind if I just take 27 00:02:24.180 --> 00:02:29.440 moment to acknowledge another great human rights advocate and a great champion of Indigenous rights, 28 00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:37.560 Elliot Johnson, whose passing recently was a huge loss to the country, and I'd like to acknowledge 29 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:45.040 the legacy that he leaves as well. I think with the emergence of the modern human rights framework 30 00:02:45.040 --> 00:02:52.920 after World War II, we've seen, I think, the evolution of an internationally recognised human 31 00:02:52.920 --> 00:02:58.180 rights framework that recognises the concept that individuals are rights-holding entities. 32 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:05.080 Human rights and recognition of human rights have symbolic importance and also practical 33 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:11.120 aspects to them, and I want to start from the proposition that both aspects are equally important, 34 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:16.740 but I want to explore what I think are important lines in the sand to draw about how much tolerance 35 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:21.900 we have for each. I was reminded when I was putting my thoughts for this lecture together 36 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:22.900 about the time and the importance of human rights, and I think that's a very important 37 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:30.960 point. I think there's a lot of Ihron inside of me when I think about what I think about 38 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:30.980 the inside of me when I think about what I think about the inside of me when I think about 39 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:36.560 what I think about the inside of me when I think about what I think about the inside 40 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:45.480 of me when I think about what I think about the inside of me when I think about what 41 00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:48.100 I think about what I think about the inside of me when I think about what I think about 42 00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:48.140 what I think about what I think about what I think about what I think about what I think 43 00:03:48.140 --> 00:03:52.800 about what I think about what I think about what I think about what I think about what I think 44 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:57.260 inherent right to self-government. So they'd come into the room to talk to the members of the 45 00:03:57.260 --> 00:04:01.200 community and say, you know, what would you like your self-government to look like? Would you like 46 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:05.520 to talk about education or would you like to talk about health? And they'd say, well, we want both. 47 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:12.780 Would you like to, well, we say, would you like to look at issues of economic development or should 48 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:19.380 we start with issues around cultural protection? We want to do both. And even when it came to 49 00:04:19.380 --> 00:04:25.580 anything else, the creed didn't seem to have this concept of either or or both, which I took away 50 00:04:25.580 --> 00:04:31.900 as a wonderful example of the problematic with a dichotomy of either or and this concept of where 51 00:04:31.900 --> 00:04:36.940 you find the balance. I still use that a little bit when I go shopping and can't decide. But it 52 00:04:36.940 --> 00:04:42.300 was a wonderful way of trying to get me to see the world differently. And I was thinking of that in 53 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:47.380 relation to the balance between the symbolic and the practical in relation to human rights. 54 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.360 The acknowledgement of cultural protection is a very important part of the creed. 55 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:54.780 Country, of course, becomes a wonderful act of symbolism that really permeates Australian society 56 00:04:54.780 --> 00:05:03.200 now. I think it's a powerful example of how symbolism can be very powerful. It wasn't long 57 00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:11.520 ago before it became such an accepted and almost an important protocol to do the welcome to country. 58 00:05:11.640 --> 00:05:17.140 But especially in places like Adelaide or Sydney, where my community is, that it was often assumed 59 00:05:17.140 --> 00:05:18.940 that our cultures were dead there. 60 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:24.380 And that we had no communities. And this constant acknowledgement now at the beginning of important 61 00:05:24.380 --> 00:05:29.340 formal events is a wonderful symbolic reminder of that sharing of country and the history. 62 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:35.480 We can also look to something like the apology to the stolen generations as an important act 63 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:41.800 of symbolism. Now, I call it an act of symbolism partly because there was a clear understanding 64 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:47.860 when the apology was given that there'd be no reparation process around that. So it becomes 65 00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:48.760 just a symbolic. 66 00:06:07.620 --> 00:06:15.920 And there's a symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol 67 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.920 inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol 68 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:19.020 inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol inside of symbol 69 00:06:19.020 --> 00:06:23.740 Australians see Aboriginal history and culture as a key part of the national story. 70 00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:30.100 And of course there's plenty of evidence of ways in which aspects of Aboriginal culture 71 00:06:30.100 --> 00:06:36.020 is seen as a key way of expressing the national identity, the love of Aboriginal art for example 72 00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:41.440 or the use of our culture at showcase events like the opening of the Olympic Games at Sydney. 73 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:47.540 When I'm often asked about what my vision for a reconciled Australia would be or for 74 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:53.600 the future, I like to think of it as an Australia where Aboriginal people and our culture and 75 00:06:53.600 --> 00:07:00.300 our history are seen as central to Australia's civil, cultural and political life. 76 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:05.080 But I want to talk about how we get to that point and while there are several aspects 77 00:07:05.080 --> 00:07:09.740 to that agenda, I think there's a key role to be played by human rights frameworks. 78 00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:17.080 The vision that I spoke about requires a success in closing the gap and closing the gap has 79 00:07:17.080 --> 00:07:17.520 been around. 80 00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:23.620 And I think that's a really effective way of highlighting the need to ensure that Aboriginal 81 00:07:23.620 --> 00:07:27.160 and Torres Strait Islander people are given the same opportunities around health, housing, 82 00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:28.160 education and employment. 83 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:31.120 And that becomes a central ambition. 84 00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:33.960 It's a correct ambition, a right ambition. 85 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:40.620 But I think getting to the vision that I described requires something more than that. 86 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:46.420 And I think it's important to point that out, that we need closing the gap plus two other 87 00:07:46.420 --> 00:07:46.820 things. 88 00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:51.780 One is a vibrant Indigenous culture and the other is vibrant Indigenous communities. 89 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:57.180 And often the focus on closing the gap, which as I said is an absolutely important and central 90 00:07:57.180 --> 00:08:00.200 agenda, doesn't look at those other two broader aspects. 91 00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:05.100 And I think it's important that we need to appreciate that those are equally part of 92 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:05.540 the challenge. 93 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:12.220 In relation to the challenge of ensuring there are vibrant Indigenous cultures, I think that 94 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:14.260 has become an increasing challenge. 95 00:08:14.500 --> 00:08:17.520 And although, as I said, we see plenty of examples of where Indigenous people are not 96 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:22.600 represented and where the aspects of Indigenous culture are embraced, particularly around 97 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:30.920 art and dance, we see other narratives that paint Aboriginal culture as part of the problem 98 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:32.000 and not part of the solution. 99 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:39.060 I think this became especially the case in light of the issues around the Northern Territory 100 00:08:39.060 --> 00:08:45.280 intervention and that there was a whole line of narrative that said that a lot of the issues 101 00:08:45.280 --> 00:08:47.500 facing Indigenous communities are not represented. 102 00:08:47.500 --> 00:08:54.640 around social dysfunction were a result of Aboriginal cultural values and a tolerance 103 00:08:54.640 --> 00:08:59.360 within Aboriginal community of antisocial behaviour. That assumption was wrong or that 104 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:05.720 assertion was wrong and it's been very damaging. I think first of all many Aboriginal people would 105 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:11.640 say that issues of violence against women and children are not things that are sanctioned by 106 00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:16.100 our own community and in fact many Aboriginal men say that too. The Little Children, a sacred 107 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:22.220 report which identified or highlighted the issue and the extent of child sexual abuse in the 108 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:27.880 Northern Territory, importantly highlighted the fact that a lot of sexual exploitation was 109 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:35.500 perpetrated by non-Indigenous people, wasn't so much a community issue and then also the claims 110 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:40.500 that were made by the then Minister of Pedophile Rings operating and supported through Aboriginal 111 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:45.780 communities were withdrawn and later to be proven to be unfounded by the Australian Federal Police 112 00:09:45.780 --> 00:09:46.080 and that's a very important issue. I think it's important to think about that. 113 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:51.160 After lengthy and expensive investigations. Now I'm not arguing that these aren't problems within 114 00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:56.100 Aboriginal communities but I'm just saying it's not helpful to have a starting point that wrongly 115 00:09:56.100 --> 00:10:02.960 demonises Aboriginal culture. In fact I'd like to argue that I think strong Aboriginal culture is 116 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:08.760 actually part of the solution to some of these problems. Our centre has been involved with a 117 00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:13.740 study across New South Wales communities, many of them quite remote, that looks at, 118 00:10:13.820 --> 00:10:15.920 tries to explain why some of these 119 00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:22.640 communities have high crime rates and some have low crime rates. We can look at pairs of communities 120 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:28.460 that are fairly close together in terms of geographical location and they have completely 121 00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:34.940 different social dynamics. Just to use one example of the cases that we looked at, the town of 122 00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:42.500 Menindee has a very low crime rate and the town of Wilcannia has a very high crime rate and one of 123 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:45.900 the things that is, when you look at all of the factors that explain why these communities have 124 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:49.820 high crime rates and why there's difference there is that within Menindee there's a very strong 125 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:56.980 social fabric. You still have a lot of authority that is exerted by older people in the community. 126 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:02.820 They're able to influence the behaviour of other people in a positive way within their community 127 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:09.740 whereas in Wilcannia that social fabric has really deteriorated and that is what has led to 128 00:11:09.740 --> 00:11:15.320 a lot of the anti-social behaviour there. Another example where we see the strength of Indigenous 129 00:11:15.900 --> 00:11:21.720 culture as part of the solution is through bilingual education programs. These programs which 130 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:27.840 sometimes get demonised because they're said to not focus on English actually use Aboriginal 131 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:33.060 culture and Aboriginal language as a starting point, understanding that when children often 132 00:11:33.060 --> 00:11:38.720 come into the classroom in those particular areas, English is a second language but they can learn 133 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:44.380 the letters of English by reading their own language which gets them familiar and then it 134 00:11:44.380 --> 00:11:45.880 allows them to better understand the language. So I think that's a really good example of a 135 00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:50.260 way in which people can understand English when they speak it. So the demonising of those 136 00:11:50.260 --> 00:11:56.180 bilingual education programs and the mandatory English requirements that are being introduced 137 00:11:56.880 --> 00:12:04.880 work against what we know works in relation to that. And I think another example of the role 138 00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:10.540 that culture can play where we've seen it as a positive influence and part of the solution to 139 00:12:10.540 --> 00:12:15.780 problems is in the educational models that have been designed by people like Chris Saar, 140 00:12:15.900 --> 00:12:23.300 an educationalist from Queensland who's developed models of education for Indigenous people, 141 00:12:24.040 --> 00:12:29.440 Indigenous children that have a stream that focus on expectation of academic excellence. So it's 142 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:35.320 quite rigorous about literacy and numeracy standards but marries that with programs that 143 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:40.640 look at issues around building self-esteem and often those are things that focus on culture 144 00:12:40.640 --> 00:12:43.960 that give kids a sense of self-esteem and confidence. 145 00:12:48.260 --> 00:12:59.340 And I think when we look at the рол 많이 146 00:13:11.420 --> 00:13:16.100 these narratives of the demonising of Aboriginal culture 147 00:13:16.100 --> 00:13:18.020 and a close-the-gap agenda 148 00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:20.640 that doesn't recognise the importance of that culture, 149 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:24.400 but on the other hand, we see many Australians embrace 150 00:13:24.400 --> 00:13:27.680 and feel very comfortable about Aboriginal art and culture. 151 00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:33.000 I think it's almost a subversive thing, too, about that. 152 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.160 A lot of Aboriginal art is an expression of relationship to country. 153 00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:40.080 It's an expression of ownership. 154 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.880 In fact, a lot of the stories are derived from stories 155 00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:45.000 that tell about connection to country. 156 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:47.280 So the fact that they sit in the walls 157 00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:51.600 of many of Australia's biggest institutions is a nice irony. 158 00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:56.980 But I think that the tension becomes even more pronounced 159 00:13:56.980 --> 00:14:02.800 when the discussions around how to improve Indigenous... 160 00:14:02.800 --> 00:14:05.640 ..the lives of Indigenous Australians 161 00:14:05.640 --> 00:14:10.060 won't extend to the protection of human rights 162 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:10.640 and the protection of human rights. 163 00:14:11.020 --> 00:14:13.520 It's impossible to keep cultures strong 164 00:14:13.520 --> 00:14:14.880 unless they're somehow protected. 165 00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:19.140 And it seems to me very problematic 166 00:14:19.140 --> 00:14:22.500 that we can say that we like these aspects of Aboriginal culture, 167 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.920 that they're parts of Aboriginal life that we're comfortable with, 168 00:14:27.060 --> 00:14:29.960 but we won't extend to protect them 169 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:31.500 through heritage protection legislation, 170 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:33.260 cultural protection legislation. 171 00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:35.640 In New South Wales, where I'm from, 172 00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:38.540 there's no list kept of Aboriginal sites when they're destroyed. 173 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:40.000 It's been... 174 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.480 There's been ineffective national heritage protection. 175 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.640 I think it's one way where we see the fact that we say 176 00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:48.740 this is something that's really important to the country 177 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:52.380 isn't backed up with legislative frameworks that protect it. 178 00:14:52.560 --> 00:14:56.280 And in discussions around human rights 179 00:14:56.280 --> 00:14:59.220 and protecting Indigenous culture in those ways, 180 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.920 there's a great antagonism towards it 181 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:05.760 and there's a sense that things are becoming too political and uncomfortable. 182 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:07.820 And I was thinking about that 183 00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:09.460 and it always reminds me of... 184 00:15:09.460 --> 00:15:14.740 the way in which when Cathy Freeman won the gold medal at the Olympics 185 00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:17.740 and everyone was so proud, rightly, and excited, 186 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.440 both black and white, it was such a unifying moment. 187 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.300 There was an interview with Cathy talking about her family 188 00:15:24.300 --> 00:15:28.200 and she mentioned that her grandmother was a member of the Stolen Generations 189 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:29.800 as part of her family history. 190 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:32.760 She wasn't labouring the point. 191 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:35.540 She was just giving an explanation of where she'd come from 192 00:15:35.540 --> 00:15:36.740 or what her family was like. 193 00:15:36.900 --> 00:15:39.360 And there were a couple of letters to the... 194 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:41.780 paper the next day saying, you know, 195 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.560 Cathy Freeman could be a really great role model 196 00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.300 but she should stay away from politics. 197 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:49.740 And it was such an example of how politicised 198 00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:53.060 many of these issues around Indigenous culture are. 199 00:15:53.480 --> 00:15:56.160 But I do think that that's one way in which 200 00:15:56.160 --> 00:15:59.260 our human rights frameworks need to be improved, 201 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.660 especially if we think that Indigenous culture and art 202 00:16:02.660 --> 00:16:04.600 is an important part of our national story 203 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.080 and when we think about the role that it plays 204 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:08.700 in terms of Indigenous communities. 205 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:12.240 I also, as I said at the beginning, 206 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:15.160 think that the other aspect of the Closing the Gap campaign 207 00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:16.940 is the fact that there's not enough focus 208 00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:19.100 on the resilience of Aboriginal communities 209 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:21.960 and how that's a really important thing to be investing in. 210 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.220 And I think there is a human rights aspect to this. 211 00:16:28.020 --> 00:16:30.360 The human right of self-determination 212 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:32.100 is such an inherent human right 213 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:34.120 that it sits at Article 1 of both 214 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.320 the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights 215 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.440 and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. 216 00:16:39.460 --> 00:16:44.520 And this rhetoric that's crept into the dialogue 217 00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:47.000 around Indigenous rights over the last decade 218 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.780 that self-determination has failed 219 00:16:48.780 --> 00:16:50.160 I think has been really dangerous. 220 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:54.020 And it undermines that particular human right. 221 00:16:54.140 --> 00:16:57.000 And as a principle, I think that that's problematic. 222 00:16:57.160 --> 00:16:59.240 But I think there are practical reasons why. 223 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.760 And often the argument that self-determination has failed 224 00:17:02.760 --> 00:17:03.780 is something like this. 225 00:17:04.060 --> 00:17:07.080 The federal government had a policy called self-determination. 226 00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:08.460 As a result of that, 227 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:09.680 they established a thing called 228 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.920 the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, ADCIC. 229 00:17:13.180 --> 00:17:14.380 ADCIC was a failure. 230 00:17:14.860 --> 00:17:17.220 Therefore, self-determination has failed. 231 00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:21.860 I don't know why that ground was given up so quickly 232 00:17:21.860 --> 00:17:24.100 in terms of debates around Indigenous rights 233 00:17:24.100 --> 00:17:26.560 that self-determination has failed. 234 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:28.560 I think it's even debatable 235 00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:31.520 that ADCIC in itself was a complete failure. 236 00:17:31.580 --> 00:17:34.320 It certainly had a lot of things that it did very well, 237 00:17:34.420 --> 00:17:36.200 although it had a lot of other problems. 238 00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:38.440 But the practical problem 239 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:41.740 with the easy dismissal of the right to self-determination 240 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:43.760 and this assumption that it's failed 241 00:17:43.760 --> 00:17:46.560 is that all of the evidence that we look at 242 00:17:46.560 --> 00:17:51.320 when we analyse why socioeconomic conditions improve 243 00:17:51.320 --> 00:17:54.160 in Aboriginal communities here in Australia 244 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.040 and in similar jurisdictions like the United States, 245 00:17:57.260 --> 00:17:58.320 New Zealand and Canada 246 00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:02.000 is that when you have Aboriginal people 247 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.040 more centrally involved in the decision-making processes 248 00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:07.040 that affect them, 249 00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:08.200 when they're involved 250 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.300 in setting the priorities within their community, 251 00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:13.260 they're involved in the policies that affect them 252 00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:17.380 and in varying degrees involved in the service delivery 253 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:19.300 or at least the design of service delivery 254 00:18:19.300 --> 00:18:20.160 into their communities, 255 00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:21.940 you get much better results. 256 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:24.460 And you can just see as an assertion 257 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:26.660 why there would be common sense reasons 258 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:27.940 that that would be the case. 259 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.180 You're closely working with the people 260 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:31.380 who are supposed to be benefiting. 261 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.600 You're able to get a better view of what the dynamics are. 262 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:37.460 You can use the informal networks within the community 263 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:38.180 to get groundwork. 264 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.300 You can integrate a buy-in to policies and programs. 265 00:18:41.140 --> 00:18:44.100 And you get a sense of ownership within the community 266 00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:45.840 which of course improves the take-up. 267 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:48.680 And this was sort of borne out a little bit, 268 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.320 this idea about the sense of involvement 269 00:18:52.320 --> 00:18:53.860 and empowerment in decision-making 270 00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:57.520 in that study that we've done of Wilcannia and Menindee. 271 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.820 When we looked at issues within Menindee 272 00:19:01.820 --> 00:19:04.680 that were similar to ones in Wilcannia, 273 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:07.340 a very interesting dynamic occurred. 274 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:09.580 In Menindee there'd been a problem 275 00:19:09.580 --> 00:19:11.840 with the sniffing of paint. 276 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.360 And we'd asked how the community resolved that. 277 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:19.380 They said, well, we just went up to the school. 278 00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:21.720 We said to the principal, this is a problem. 279 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:23.940 We went through all the kids' bags. 280 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:25.480 We found who had the paint. 281 00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:26.620 And then we dealt with it. 282 00:19:27.020 --> 00:19:28.600 When the kids weren't coming to school, 283 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:30.140 Aunty Beryl got in a bus. 284 00:19:30.260 --> 00:19:31.460 She went down to the riverbank. 285 00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:33.420 She put them in the bus and she took them to school. 286 00:19:35.380 --> 00:19:38.180 In Wilcannia, when we asked about antisocial problems, 287 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:39.740 and how the community dealt with them, 288 00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:41.160 we'd get responses like this. 289 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:44.580 Well, we didn't bother going to the school 290 00:19:44.580 --> 00:19:47.940 because the PNC doesn't like the Aboriginal community here. 291 00:19:48.300 --> 00:19:50.320 There's no point in applying for a job 292 00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:52.060 because no one's ever had a job in town, 293 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:53.020 so what's the point? 294 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:54.860 You can't go to the council 295 00:19:54.860 --> 00:19:56.260 because they're not interested in us. 296 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.200 And what you can see between the two sets of answers 297 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:01.720 in these two parallel communities 298 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.720 is a group of people who see a problem 299 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.200 and realise they have the capacity and the agency 300 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.180 to solve it. 301 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:09.920 To make change and to fix things. 302 00:20:10.580 --> 00:20:12.620 And a group of people who live in a community 303 00:20:12.620 --> 00:20:14.400 where they feel completely disempowered 304 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:15.200 and something happens 305 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.620 and they don't think they have the power to change it. 306 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:19.220 And at the heart of it, 307 00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.240 that's the sort of re-empowerment 308 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.500 that we need to create in communities that are failing. 309 00:20:23.620 --> 00:20:25.380 And we need to support and celebrate 310 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.880 in the communities that actually do work. 311 00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:30.800 And we never hear much about those communities that do work, 312 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.480 but they're such a goldmine for seeing 313 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.560 about the blueprints that we should be using 314 00:20:34.560 --> 00:20:37.100 to think about how we can find solutions 315 00:20:37.100 --> 00:20:38.300 to complex problems. 316 00:20:38.520 --> 00:20:40.280 And they're often really simple things. 317 00:20:40.460 --> 00:20:43.280 And when you look at the issues that work 318 00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:47.320 in indigenous communities around things like education, etc. 319 00:20:47.780 --> 00:20:49.960 It's not surprising that things like 320 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:51.500 bilingual education programs 321 00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:54.320 aren't things that have been designed in Canberra 322 00:20:54.320 --> 00:20:56.360 in the capital cities and imposed into communities. 323 00:20:56.760 --> 00:20:58.780 They're actually very simple things 324 00:20:58.780 --> 00:21:03.380 that have been designed by communities themselves 325 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.700 who identify a problem, want their kids to go to school, 326 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:08.260 want their kids to learn English, 327 00:21:08.340 --> 00:21:10.220 want their kids to have great opportunities, 328 00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:13.900 and find ways in which they can actually come up with solutions. 329 00:21:14.520 --> 00:21:17.460 Which is the other problem I have with the message that gets sent 330 00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.180 when we don't support things like bilingual education. 331 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:23.780 It sends a message that people aren't capable 332 00:21:23.780 --> 00:21:26.060 of finding these sorts of solutions. 333 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:29.440 So I want to talk a bit about human rights legislation 334 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:30.880 and the role that it can play. 335 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:36.020 There are many arguments around why human rights models, 336 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:36.540 particularly, 337 00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:39.480 a national bill of rights aren't a good idea 338 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:41.140 within the Australian context. 339 00:21:42.260 --> 00:21:46.740 When I worked on the ACT consultations 340 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.720 for Human Rights Act there, 341 00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:51.000 the community consultations that eventually led 342 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.800 to the ACT's Human Rights Act, 343 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:57.320 I was interested and a little dismayed 344 00:21:57.320 --> 00:22:01.140 to hear such strong community views, 345 00:22:01.620 --> 00:22:02.960 or views within the community, 346 00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:06.520 about human rights being a kind of deficit model. 347 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:08.960 And what I mean when I say that is you'd hear comments like, 348 00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:11.540 well, if we protect the rights of minorities, 349 00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:13.940 then it won't be fair on the rest of us. 350 00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:19.800 Or if we extend legislation just to cover Aboriginal people 351 00:22:19.800 --> 00:22:21.500 and Muslims and people like that, 352 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.120 then it'll be unfair to us. 353 00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:28.460 And what was clear in this conception 354 00:22:28.460 --> 00:22:31.480 around a human rights framework that was expressed in those views 355 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:35.020 was this idea that somehow if you strengthen human rights, 356 00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:36.640 someone wins and someone loses. 357 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.580 Rather than seeing it as an enhancement model 358 00:22:39.580 --> 00:22:42.380 where when you set benchmarks in human rights legislation, 359 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.200 it's actually something that makes everyone better off. 360 00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:47.660 It might disproportionately help those 361 00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:50.480 who would be otherwise disenfranchised 362 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:51.520 or discriminated against, 363 00:22:51.780 --> 00:22:54.060 but overall those are benchmarks that are set 364 00:22:54.060 --> 00:22:56.560 for every single member of the ACT community. 365 00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:59.140 They just might have more relevance 366 00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:00.660 in some people's lives than others. 367 00:23:00.740 --> 00:23:03.140 So that concept of the deficit model, I think, 368 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:04.160 has been really destructive. 369 00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:06.540 The other thing that has come 370 00:23:06.540 --> 00:23:07.380 from the complicated debates 371 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:10.220 about why we should strengthen human rights legislation 372 00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:14.120 is the argument that says that the current laws we have are enough. 373 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:15.820 You know, after all, we're not China, 374 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.200 we don't have terrible human rights abuses here, 375 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.940 we've got a really great democracy 376 00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:21.240 and we've got plenty of legislation. 377 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:25.740 But I think that those arguments become complicated 378 00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:29.540 if you look at this perspective from the Indigenous community. 379 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.600 And I want to use the Northern Territory Intervention 380 00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:36.040 as an example of why I think 381 00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:39.100 our current laws aren't efficient 382 00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:42.140 and why I think that argument is dangerous in our context. 383 00:23:44.080 --> 00:23:46.680 When the Northern Territory Intervention was first rolled out, 384 00:23:46.820 --> 00:23:49.560 it identified 73 Aboriginal communities 385 00:23:50.120 --> 00:23:55.320 that were going to be subject to very, very extreme laws 386 00:23:55.320 --> 00:23:58.520 that included income management and compulsory leasing 387 00:23:58.520 --> 00:24:03.460 and the power to take over assets that the community owned. 388 00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:04.980 So very, very extreme laws. 389 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:08.720 When the legislation was passed, 390 00:24:09.620 --> 00:24:15.700 in order to make it compliant with other human rights legislation, 391 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.520 the federal government had to repeal or suspend 392 00:24:19.520 --> 00:24:23.140 the Racial Discrimination Act from applying in those particular areas. 393 00:24:23.540 --> 00:24:27.140 It also suspended the right to appeal 394 00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:30.360 to Northern Territory anti-discrimination mechanisms, 395 00:24:30.540 --> 00:24:33.580 so it suspended that piece of legislation. 396 00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:35.320 And it suspended... 397 00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:39.600 It suspended the right to appeal to the Social Security Appeals Tribunal. 398 00:24:41.040 --> 00:24:43.840 So if you were living in one of these 73 communities 399 00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:47.300 and you thought that somehow any of these provisions 400 00:24:47.300 --> 00:24:50.020 were unfair, discriminatory, 401 00:24:50.280 --> 00:24:52.540