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<v Phillip Adams>Morning all, how are you? On this damp morning.

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<v Phillip Adams>Decades of broadcasting have taught me an interesting lesson,

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<v Phillip Adams>that sometimes the great brains of the age are lousy conversationalists.

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<v Phillip Adams>I won't mention names, but a couple come to mind who write brilliantly,

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<v Phillip Adams>but when they get to a microphone, become so deadeningly dull

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<v Phillip Adams>that you feel yourself losing consciousness.

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<v Phillip Adams>Conversely, often people who are quite ordinary in intellect

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<v Phillip Adams>can present their ideas such as they are brilliantly.

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<v Phillip Adams>So you can imagine the joy of this ageing broadcaster.

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<v Phillip Adams>When I came upon someone who not only thinks brilliantly,

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<v Phillip Adams>writes wonderfully, but is a dazzling broadcaster,

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<v Phillip Adams>such as he does, he's really, I think, presented himself as a canary

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<v Phillip Adams>in the coal mine of capitalism.

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<v Phillip Adams>And as he lost his feathers, no one took the slightest notice.

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<v Phillip Adams>He warned us what was happening in a book called

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<v Phillip Adams>Traders, Guns and Money, Knowns and Unknowns in the Dazzling World of Derivatives.

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<v Phillip Adams>That drew our attention to him, and on Late Night Live,

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<v Phillip Adams>he's now our resident risk assessor.

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<v Phillip Adams>I think you'll find him a very, very entertaining speaker.

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<v Phillip Adams>I always do.

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<v Phillip Adams>Ladies and gentlemen, DAS.

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<v Phillip Adams>APPLAUSE

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<v Satyajit Das>Built to fail, the age of Ponzi prosperity.

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<v Satyajit Das>We are the hollow men.

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<v Satyajit Das>We are the stuffed men.

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<v Satyajit Das>Our wallets filled with straw.

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<v Satyajit Das>Leaning.

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<v Satyajit Das>Into the storm.

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<v Satyajit Das>We now live at the end of the age of Ponzi prosperity.

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<v Satyajit Das>The wealth we thought we had, the wealth that we have become entitled to,

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<v Satyajit Das>was built on economic and social models,

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<v Satyajit Das>which are fundamentally and totally flawed,

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<v Satyajit Das>and are now failing.

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<v Satyajit Das>So what was this Ponzi prosperity based on?

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<v Satyajit Das>The world's entire wealth,

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<v Satyajit Das>has been driven by two factors.

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<v Satyajit Das>One is abundant and cheap debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>The second is free carbon emissions,

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<v Satyajit Das>and other forms of uncosted environmental degradation.

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<v Satyajit Das>Interestingly enough, despite the ideological debate,

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<v Satyajit Das>all political parties throughout the world have shared a reliance on growth.

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<v Satyajit Das>Harry Johnson, a rather famous economist, once wrote,

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<v Satyajit Das>when he was writing about Keynes,

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<v Satyajit Das>faster economic growth,

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<v Satyajit Das>is a panacea for all economic and political problems,

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<v Satyajit Das>and that faster growth can be easily achieved by a combination

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<v Satyajit Das>of inflationary demand management policies

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<v Satyajit Das>and politically appealing fiscal gimmickry.

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<v Satyajit Das>But Harry Johnson was a little late,

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<v Satyajit Das>because Scott Fitzgerald had anticipated that in the great Gatsby.

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<v Satyajit Das>Gatsby believed in the green light,

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<v Satyajit Das>the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us.

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<v Satyajit Das>It is not a future that we can imagine, but a future that we can imagine.

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<v Satyajit Das>It deluded us then.

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<v Satyajit Das>But that's no matter.

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<v Satyajit Das>Tomorrow we will run faster,

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<v Satyajit Das>stretch our arms out further.

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<v Satyajit Das>We lived in the Goldilocks economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>and it was driven by a curious combination of certain things.

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<v Satyajit Das>Low interest rates,

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<v Satyajit Das>low oil prices,

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<v Satyajit Das>low product costs driven by the emergence of China, India, Asia and Eastern Europe.

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<v Satyajit Das>Deregulation of the financial system, which fed our insatiable appetite for debt,

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<v Satyajit Das>and that cheap and abundant debt funded both consumption and trade.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you look at the graph, which is going to appear,

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<v Satyajit Das>you look at the oil price, which is the red line.

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<v Satyajit Das>In the period of the 80s and 90s, we enjoyed oil prices,

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<v Satyajit Das>which we have not seen since the 1950s and 1960s,

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<v Satyajit Das>if you adjust for inflation.

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<v Satyajit Das>But at the same time, the fall of the Berlin Wall

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<v Satyajit Das>and the entry into the economy

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<v Satyajit Das>of the old communist economies of Eastern Europe and Asia

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<v Satyajit Das>had some interesting effects in terms of costs.

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<v Satyajit Das>But there were some interesting aspects to that as well.

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<v Satyajit Das>For instance, occupational health standards changed somewhat.

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<v Satyajit Das>This is the new dust and particle free breathing mask that was being used.

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<v Satyajit Das>This was the approved scaffolding used in Eastern Europe and Asia

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<v Satyajit Das>to actually build things.

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<v Satyajit Das>And this was the approved construction side hard hat.

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<v Satyajit Das>And during this period, our consumption was built on a pyramid of debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>That graph behind me shows the uniform rise of debt, consumer debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>This is people borrowing to consume, to buy plasma televisions

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<v Satyajit Das>and everything else and their hammers.

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<v Satyajit Das>It grew across the whole Western world.

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<v Satyajit Das>It roughly doubled.

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<v Satyajit Das>And in the end, when you look at where the US stands today,

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<v Satyajit Das>it stands in hock.

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<v Satyajit Das>Debt, if you look at the total production of the economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>US debt peaked at 3.5 times the total annual production,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is about $15 trillion.

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<v Satyajit Das>That is a level that has not been approached since the Great Depression.

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<v Satyajit Das>But it wasn't only consumption.

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<v Satyajit Das>The entire trading system that we've relied on

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<v Satyajit Das>was built on a gigantic Ponzi scheme.

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<v Satyajit Das>We, of course, have China.

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<v Satyajit Das>And on the other side, we have the United States.

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<v Satyajit Das>What we thought was trade was actually a very interesting process.

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<v Satyajit Das>So what was happening was China was exporting goods and services

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<v Satyajit Das>to the United States.

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<v Satyajit Das>And in return, of course, the United States was stripping out dollars

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<v Satyajit Das>to the Chinese.

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<v Satyajit Das>Except there was a cycle which went the other way,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is the financial aspects of trade,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is the Chinese were taking the excess dollars they got

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<v Satyajit Das>and were actually lending it

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<v Satyajit Das>back to the United States by buying US government bonds.

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<v Satyajit Das>So it eventually flowed through into the US domestic economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>And what was happening was the actual consumption,

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<v Satyajit Das>the process of buying these goods from China,

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<v Satyajit Das>was purely actually being funded by the Chinese themselves

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<v Satyajit Das>through this circulatory mechanism.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, there are some in the world, in the US Congress,

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<v Satyajit Das>which think this was all right.

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<v Satyajit Das>One particular politician remarked to me,

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<v Satyajit Das>that he thought this was an extremely fair exchange.

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<v Satyajit Das>He said, the Chinese send us toxic toys,

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<v Satyajit Das>we send them back toxic debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>The point I'm making is fundamentally

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<v Satyajit Das>the entire system of trade on which we built the world

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<v Satyajit Das>is actually a fiction.

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<v Satyajit Das>The fiction was driven purely and simply by the fact

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<v Satyajit Das>the Chinese never got paid.

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<v Satyajit Das>We actually paid, if I'm a Chinese individual,

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<v Satyajit Das>the Americans to buy our goods,

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<v Satyajit Das>and never collected on the debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, for a moment, think about the world

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<v Satyajit Das>as two separate boxes.

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<v Satyajit Das>The first box, which is the left-hand side,

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<v Satyajit Das>is, let's call that, the real economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>Contrary to popular appeal, money is actually nothing.

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<v Satyajit Das>We have to actually make goods, we have to make services,

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<v Satyajit Das>and we have to sell them.

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<v Satyajit Das>The left-hand side, which is what we call the real economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>is Q times P.

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<v Satyajit Das>Quantity of goods and services produced multiplied by the price.

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<v Satyajit Das>That's the real value of production,

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<v Satyajit Das>old-fashioned stuff, making things.

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<v Satyajit Das>On the right-hand side is the financial economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>M times V.

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<v Satyajit Das>This is the amount of money that's in the economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>and then there is the speed with which it goes round.

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<v Satyajit Das>Because money goes to somebody else,

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<v Satyajit Das>and then it goes to somebody else and keeps circulating.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, the two have to equate to each other,

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<v Satyajit Das>because the financial part isn't real.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's only a claim on the real economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>What actually happened in the last 25 to 30 years,

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<v Satyajit Das>was we saw an absolutely explosive growth in that right-hand side.

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<v Satyajit Das>What actually was happening was M was going up through a whole process,

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<v Satyajit Das>which was two elements.

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<v Satyajit Das>Once in a lifetime expansion of liquidity,

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<v Satyajit Das>essentially as governments pumped out more money,

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<v Satyajit Das>and at the same time, bankers,

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<v Satyajit Das>and I used to be a banker in my previous life,

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<v Satyajit Das>effectively increased the velocity with which that money was going around.

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<v Satyajit Das>That kept going up.

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<v Satyajit Das>So the right-hand side expanded.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, the right-hand side is simply a fiction.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's a claim on the left-hand side, the real economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>So what now has to happen is the left-hand side has to adjust.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, quantity of goods and services cannot expand very quickly.

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<v Satyajit Das>So what actually happened was this process set off

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<v Satyajit Das>a once-in-a-lifetime cycle of increasing asset prices.

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<v Satyajit Das>So simple things like your houses, commercial property,

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<v Satyajit Das>share prices, commodity prices,

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<v Satyajit Das>everything went up on the tsunami of money that was being created.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, the problem with that is this is a very funny type of money.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's actually trapped in the asset world

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<v Satyajit Das>because essentially as prices go up, as your house goes up,

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<v Satyajit Das>you can borrow more against your house

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<v Satyajit Das>because you have more collateral, more security to borrow against.

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<v Satyajit Das>And that process means that essentially this money,

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<v Satyajit Das>this money can never really be released easily

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<v Satyajit Das>when it gets trapped in this world.

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<v Satyajit Das>So all you do is take money out of one asset and buy another asset with it,

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<v Satyajit Das>keep pushing it up.

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<v Satyajit Das>And this was the Ponzi growth that actually drove the entire global economy

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<v Satyajit Das>for the last 20, 25 years.

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<v Satyajit Das>And if you look at that figuratively, it's like a seesaw.

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<v Satyajit Das>What happened is the amount of money increased exponentially,

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<v Satyajit Das>forcing the seesaw to correct up,

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<v Satyajit Das>and on the right-hand side, obviously the price of every asset went up.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, there were other signs the market was peaking.

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<v Satyajit Das>Not only were asset prices going up,

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<v Satyajit Das>Ferrari launched a car, the Otto Volante.

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<v Satyajit Das>This was the car for the time-challenged,

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<v Satyajit Das>traffic-impeded business executive for 2 million pounds.

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<v Satyajit Das>This would fly at 5,000 feet over traffic, not through it.

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<v Satyajit Das>If ever there was a sign that the excesses in the world had reached their limit,

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<v Satyajit Das>this was it.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, we have a habit of confusing diseases and cures.

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<v Satyajit Das>The disease to me is very clear.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's the excessive debt in the system.

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<v Satyajit Das>And we all know what we have to do.

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<v Satyajit Das>We have to take the cure,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is this very ugly word called deleveraging,

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<v Satyajit Das>which, by the way, I looked up the Oxford dictionary.

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<v Satyajit Das>It doesn't exist.

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<v Satyajit Das>But it will.

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<v Satyajit Das>When they come to the new edition, you will see the word deleveraging.

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<v Satyajit Das>What it basically means, once you strip the jargon away,

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<v Satyajit Das>is this is basically the process

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<v Satyajit Das>by which the amount of debt in the global economy

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<v Satyajit Das>will have to be reduced to a sustainable level.

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<v Satyajit Das>Effectively, if you look at this, this is almost Freudian.

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<v Satyajit Das>Illusions commend themselves to us

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<v Satyajit Das>because they allow us to save pain

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<v Satyajit Das>and allow us to enjoy pleasure instead.

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<v Satyajit Das>We must therefore accept it without complaint

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<v Satyajit Das>when they sometimes collide with a bit of reality

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<v Satyajit Das>against which they are dashed to pieces.

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<v Satyajit Das>The global financial crisis was essentially

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<v Satyajit Das>the rock, the reality,

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<v Satyajit Das>on which the Ponzi prosperity of the last 30 years

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<v Satyajit Das>was dashed to pieces.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, this is a crash course in banking.

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<v Satyajit Das>This is how a bank operates.

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<v Satyajit Das>A bank is actually an exceedingly simple creature.

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<v Satyajit Das>Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to be a banker.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you look at the bank, it makes loans.

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<v Satyajit Das>So the assets on the bank

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<v Satyajit Das>are basically loans and securities it holds.

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<v Satyajit Das>Let's say that's $95.

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<v Satyajit Das>It might have some cash

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<v Satyajit Das>because you might want to take some money out,

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<v Satyajit Das>take out a deposit, so it has to have some cash there,

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<v Satyajit Das>so it's 5%, so $5.

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<v Satyajit Das>On the other side, it borrows the money, of course,

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<v Satyajit Das>from us in terms of deposits.

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<v Satyajit Das>And by statutory rules,

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<v Satyajit Das>they can roughly borrow 92 out of every $100.

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<v Satyajit Das>That's the maximum.

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<v Satyajit Das>And of course, the rest, the $8,

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<v Satyajit Das>is the share capital that the bank has.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, one way to think about this,

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<v Satyajit Das>this strange entity called a bank

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<v Satyajit Das>effectively is geared, or at least,

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<v Satyajit Das>levered roughly 12 1⁄2 times.

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<v Satyajit Das>Let me show you what happens

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<v Satyajit Das>in terms of what we call leverage.

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<v Satyajit Das>Let's assume you take losses,

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<v Satyajit Das>and in the global financial crisis, as you know,

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<v Satyajit Das>everybody has taken some degree of losses.

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<v Satyajit Das>So let's say the loans and securities that you own,

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<v Satyajit Das>the loans you've made to people,

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<v Satyajit Das>like people in the United States in subprime

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<v Satyajit Das>or other places who are not going to pay you back,

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<v Satyajit Das>let's say that's gone down by 10.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's gone to 85.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now, effectively, the asset side has come down to 90.

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<v Satyajit Das>Unfortunately, assets must equal liabilities,

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<v Satyajit Das>so your liability side has to adjust.

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<v Satyajit Das>And essentially, you've wiped out

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<v Satyajit Das>all the share capital you have.

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<v Satyajit Das>And unfortunately, the share capital

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<v Satyajit Das>can't take the value of minus 2.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's constrained at zero.

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<v Satyajit Das>So under those circumstances, what that means

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<v Satyajit Das>is essentially the banking system

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<v Satyajit Das>is actually insolvent.

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<v Satyajit Das>In aggregate, the global banking system

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<v Satyajit Das>is close to insolvency.

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<v Satyajit Das>That doesn't mean every bank is insolvent.

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<v Satyajit Das>The Australian banking system,

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<v Satyajit Das>the Canadian banking system,

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<v Satyajit Das>the Chinese banking system are quite solvent.

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<v Satyajit Das>But in aggregate, if I take the whole entire banking system,

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<v Satyajit Das>essentially it's insolvent,

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<v Satyajit Das>which means that's not very good news for American banks

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<v Satyajit Das>and British banks and European banks.

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<v Satyajit Das>To give you some idea of the perspective

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<v Satyajit Das>on European banks,

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<v Satyajit Das>is if you look at the European banks,

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<v Satyajit Das>the country of Austria has lent 80%

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<v Satyajit Das>of Austria's total gross domestic product,

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<v Satyajit Das>its total production,

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<v Satyajit Das>to Central and Eastern Europe,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is a remarkable achievement by any standards.

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<v Satyajit Das>It certainly doesn't approach the Icelandic level,

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<v Satyajit Das>which was 5.5 times GDP.

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<v Satyajit Das>Their debt was 5.5 times that lent to other people.

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<v Satyajit Das>But the problem for us is,

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<v Satyajit Das>initially when the global financial crisis,

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<v Satyajit Das>there was a lovely sense of that lovely German word,

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<v Satyajit Das>schadenfreude.

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<v Satyajit Das>Bankers were finally getting their comeuppance,

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<v Satyajit Das>except we very quickly realized

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<v Satyajit Das>when bankers get their comeuppance, so do we,

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<v Satyajit Das>because they do everything with other people's money.

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<v Satyajit Das>And so what is now the problem?

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<v Satyajit Das>What is now happening is essentially

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<v Satyajit Das>the global economy is being starved

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<v Satyajit Das>of its lifeblood,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is debt, credit.

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<v Satyajit Das>Credit is one of those wonderful things in life

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<v Satyajit Das>you don't notice unless it's absent.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's like a motor car.

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<v Satyajit Das>You might have a 2 million pound Ferrari.

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<v Satyajit Das>The problem with the Ferrari is,

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<v Satyajit Das>if you don't put $50 of oil in it,

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<v Satyajit Das>it doesn't go anywhere very quickly.

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<v Satyajit Das>And the oil in the global economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is the debt,

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<v Satyajit Das>is basically drained out.

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<v Satyajit Das>And what that sets off

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<v Satyajit Das>is the wretched deleveraging process,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is the banks now have to reduce

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<v Satyajit Das>the amount of debt that they have,

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<v Satyajit Das>the amount of, because they don't have any capital,

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<v Satyajit Das>so they basically can't make loans,

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<v Satyajit Das>so they reduce their balance sheets

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<v Satyajit Das>and stop lending to people.

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<v Satyajit Das>The only person in Australia who thinks

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<v Satyajit Das>the banks are lending is Wayne Swan and Kevin Rudd.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you actually look at the aggregate figures,

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<v Satyajit Das>it actually doesn't show that at all.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's actually shrinking.

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<v Satyajit Das>And that sets off the second phase

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<v Satyajit Das>of this ugly word deleveraging,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is the,

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<v Satyajit Das>the companies and individuals

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<v Satyajit Das>who have borrowed money have to repay that.

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<v Satyajit Das>So as they try to do that,

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<v Satyajit Das>it sets off what we call a negative feedback loop.

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<v Satyajit Das>What you were seeing before was a positive feedback loop.

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<v Satyajit Das>The level of debt coming into the economy

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<v Satyajit Das>was driving up all the asset prices,

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<v Satyajit Das>enabling us to borrow more,

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<v Satyajit Das>which drove up the prices even further.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now what's happening is it's gone into reverse.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's basically the law of financial gravity.

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<v Satyajit Das>It's very Newtonian.

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<v Satyajit Das>What goes up must come down.

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<v Satyajit Das>And as that occurs, what happens,

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<v Satyajit Das>is Wall Street,

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<v Satyajit Das>the financial institutions on the one side,

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<v Satyajit Das>restrict credit to Main Street.

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<v Satyajit Das>But as Main Street starts to take losses,

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<v Satyajit Das>what actually happens is it triggers more losses in the banks,

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<v Satyajit Das>leads to further compression in credit.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now I don't know whether you have the good news or the bad news.

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<v Satyajit Das>The good news is the process has started.

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<v Satyajit Das>The bad news, it's about a third of the way through.

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<v Satyajit Das>Now if you actually have debt now,

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<v Satyajit Das>perhaps if you like karaoke,

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<v Satyajit Das>this is the song of the day

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<v Satyajit Das>from the late Michael Jackson in Thriller.

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<v Satyajit Das>You hear the door slam

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<v Satyajit Das>and realize there's no way left to run.

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<v Satyajit Das>You feel the cold hold

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<v Satyajit Das>and wonder if you'll ever see the sun.

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<v Satyajit Das>And what we're going to see over the next couple of years

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<v Satyajit Das>is a Van Morrison journey

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<v Satyajit Das>into not the mystic, but the real.

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<v Satyajit Das>The financial economy will continue to take losses.

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<v Satyajit Das>There's going to be a scarcity of banks being able to lend

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<v Satyajit Das>because they don't have share capital.

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<v Satyajit Das>They will shrink their balance sheet.

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<v Satyajit Das>And then what that will set off is on the right-hand side,

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<v Satyajit Das>the shrinkage in the economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>There'll be higher credit costs, tighter credit conditions,

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<v Satyajit Das>reduced availability of debt.

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<v Satyajit Das>It'll lead to lower growth, higher unemployment,

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<v Satyajit Das>which we're starting to see.

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<v Satyajit Das>And I just want to make one comment about the higher unemployment.

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<v Satyajit Das>Looking at the headline unemployment now is meaningless.

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<v Satyajit Das>You have to look at not the headline unemployment

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<v Satyajit Das>because of the nature of part-time work

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<v Satyajit Das>and contracting work in the economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>What you need to look at is the hours worked

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<v Satyajit Das>and the actual income.

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<v Satyajit Das>What the government will not tell you is those numbers

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<v Satyajit Das>that are falling off the edge of a cliff.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you went back to 1920s and 1930s and 1940s and 50s

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<v Satyajit Das>and restated current employment numbers to those standards,

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<v Satyajit Das>it would be significantly higher.

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<v Satyajit Das>It would probably be like three times as an economist

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<v Satyajit Das>in the United States who's done work.

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<v Satyajit Das>Unemployment in the US is now about 9.5%.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you did it the old-fashioned way with an old-fashioned economy,

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<v Satyajit Das>it would be close to 20%.

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<v Satyajit Das>And that basically sets off the second part of the deleveraging,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is in the global economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>The US consumption has driven

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<v Satyajit Das>the global economy and the US consumer has borrowed

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<v Satyajit Das>to fund the consumption.

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<v Satyajit Das>And as they cannot now borrow to fund the consumption,

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<v Satyajit Das>what happens is our trading partners,

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<v Satyajit Das>which is in East Asia,

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<v Satyajit Das>basically suffer a great contraction of their exports.

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<v Satyajit Das>And so what that happens is they no longer buy commodities from us.

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<v Satyajit Das>And this sets off the massive, massive process of reduction

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<v Satyajit Das>in prices across the economies of the world.

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<v Satyajit Das>And there are obviously feedback loops.

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<v Satyajit Das>What happens in the financial sector affects the real economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>What happens in the real economy then affects the financial sector.

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<v Satyajit Das>Then it affects the real economy.

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<v Satyajit Das>And essentially, it's like a person who's visually impaired in a room.

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<v Satyajit Das>You feel your way through the walls to find where you have to sit down.

400
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<v Satyajit Das>We have some way to go.

401
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:07.740
<v Satyajit Das>So how big is the loss going to be?

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00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.000
<v Satyajit Das>To give you some idea of how little we understand about this process,

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<v Satyajit Das>in October last year, which isn't that long ago,

404
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<v Satyajit Das>less than 12 months ago,

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<v Satyajit Das>the IMF said the losses would be between 1 and 1.4 trillion.

406
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<v Satyajit Das>Come February, the IMF updated the forecast to 2.2 trillion.

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<v Satyajit Das>Nouriel Roubini, who has now taken the name Dr. Doom,

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<v Satyajit Das>which I'm very pleased about.

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<v Satyajit Das>I'm Dr. Gloom, he's Dr. Doom.

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<v Satyajit Das>Basically, and I'm not even a doctor, which is the worrying part about it.

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<v Satyajit Das>If you actually look at that,

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<v Satyajit Das>Nouriel Roubini said the losses would be 3.6 trillion.

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<v Satyajit Das>Not to be outdone, in April this year,

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<v Satyajit Das>the actual IMF estimate went up to 4.1 trillion,

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<v Satyajit Das>of which 2.7 would fall on banks.

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<v Satyajit Das>The other 1.4 would basically fall on other institutions

417
00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:56.720
<v Satyajit Das>like pension funds, insurance companies, and other investors.

418
00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:00.940
<v Satyajit Das>The problem is only about a third of those losses have been recognized to date.

419
00:20:01.300 --> 00:20:02.720
<v Satyajit Das>Two-thirds are still to come.

420
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:04.320
<v Satyajit Das>And looking at the banking systems,

421
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.160
<v Satyajit Das>the US ironically has recognized more of the losses.

422
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.620
<v Satyajit Das>The UK and the Eurozone proportionately have more losses to come.

423
00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:14.100
<v Satyajit Das>And this is the process, to give you some idea of this,

424
00:20:14.120 --> 00:20:18.300
<v Satyajit Das>the Australian economy overall is less than a trillion dollars.

425
00:20:18.840 --> 00:20:23.100
<v Satyajit Das>So it's like the Australian economy goes backwards by a fraction of four.

426
00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.100
<v Satyajit Das>You just wipe out Australia.

427
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:25.100
<v Satyajit Das>The best way to think about it,

428
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.940
<v Satyajit Das>a nuclear bomb goes up on Australia,

429
00:20:27.260 --> 00:20:28.900
<v Satyajit Das>and basically it no longer exists.

430
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:29.920
<v Satyajit Das>Four times over.

431
00:20:32.340 --> 00:20:34.020
<v Satyajit Das>Now, when I first came to Australia,

432
00:20:34.120 --> 00:20:36.720
<v Satyajit Das>my parents emigrated when I was 12 in 1970.

433
00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:39.200
<v Satyajit Das>And in India, home ownership is very unusual.

434
00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:43.240
<v Satyajit Das>So when I came to Australia, the idea of home ownership was kind of a novelty.

435
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.740
<v Satyajit Das>And then I discovered there were several sports in Australia,

436
00:20:47.020 --> 00:20:50.360
<v Satyajit Das>but home ownership and house prices and avoiding taxes

437
00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:54.660
<v Satyajit Das>seemed to be the two predominant personal sports that people played.

438
00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.920
<v Satyajit Das>I've never been to a dinner party.

439
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.380
<v Satyajit Das>I avoid going to dinner parties these days because it's particularly...

440
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:02.300
<v Satyajit Das>Actually, it's not too bad now,

441
00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:04.020
<v Satyajit Das>but it used to be really bad during the housing boom

442
00:21:04.020 --> 00:21:07.700
<v Satyajit Das>because the conversations between housing prices going up,

443
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:09.680
<v Satyajit Das>the size of the mortgage, and the renovations

444
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.760
<v Satyajit Das>meant that unless I had interest in either of the three topics,

445
00:21:12.760 --> 00:21:14.120
<v Satyajit Das>which I don't, effectively,

446
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.820
<v Satyajit Das>it was the most dreary occasions I can imagine.

447
00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:19.360
<v Satyajit Das>So I always gave excuses like,

448
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:20.780
<v Satyajit Das>I'm dead already.

449
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:26.000
<v Satyajit Das>This is a graph, which is actually a very long-run graph.

450
00:21:26.060 --> 00:21:28.800
<v Satyajit Das>It's the longest-run graph of any credibility that exists

451
00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:30.240
<v Satyajit Das>in terms of housing prices.

452
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.740
<v Satyajit Das>This was constructed by Robert Shiller,

453
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.720
<v Satyajit Das>a very famous economist.

454
00:21:34.260 --> 00:21:37.480
<v Satyajit Das>And basically, it starts off with the assumption

455
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.820
<v Satyajit Das>that in 1890, if a house cost $100,

456
00:21:40.900 --> 00:21:42.480
<v Satyajit Das>after adjusting for inflation,

457
00:21:42.760 --> 00:21:44.740
<v Satyajit Das>what would a house cost today?

458
00:21:45.580 --> 00:21:47.880
<v Satyajit Das>Now, as you can see, it oscillates over time.

459
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:51.440
<v Satyajit Das>But have a look right at the right-hand side of the graph.

460
00:21:53.140 --> 00:21:56.300
<v Satyajit Das>This is like having two Saturn V rockets trapped to your back

461
00:21:56.300 --> 00:21:58.160
<v Satyajit Das>and firing them up simultaneously.

462
00:21:59.860 --> 00:22:02.900
<v Satyajit Das>And this is the absolutely extraordinary rise

463
00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:04.880
<v Satyajit Das>in real estate values that we experienced.

464
00:22:05.340 --> 00:22:08.760
<v Satyajit Das>And by the way, Australia was no slouch at this either.

465
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.640
<v Satyajit Das>We, I think, came in fourth in the global rise

466
00:22:12.760 --> 00:22:14.660
<v Satyajit Das>which is very unfortunate for Australia.

467
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.400
<v Satyajit Das>We were just out of the middle winning positions.

468
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:19.720
<v Satyajit Das>Interestingly enough, our arch competitors, New Zealand, won.

469
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:24.760
<v Satyajit Das>Now, what we are seeing is that was clearly unsustainable.

470
00:22:25.540 --> 00:22:28.500
<v Satyajit Das>Robert Shiller says that house prices can only go up

471
00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:31.320
<v Satyajit Das>by roughly 1% adjusted for inflation

472
00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:33.040
<v Satyajit Das>for the very simple reason,

473
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.360
<v Satyajit Das>otherwise nobody would be able to afford a house.

474
00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.200
<v Satyajit Das>And so what we are now seeing is those housing prices come off.

475
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.680
<v Satyajit Das>In the United States, prices have come off,

476
00:22:42.760 --> 00:22:44.180
<v Satyajit Das>but not by about 30%, 35%.

477
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:47.180
<v Satyajit Das>And just so that you don't think I'm talking about aggregates,

478
00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:50.940
<v Satyajit Das>this is a bunch of houses in a place called Fort Myers in the United States.

479
00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:54.540
<v Satyajit Das>House prices peaked in December at $322,300.

480
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.060
<v Satyajit Das>In December last year, those houses were worth roughly a third

481
00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:01.700
<v Satyajit Das>of what they actually were worth at the peak,

482
00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:03.860
<v Satyajit Das>which is quite an extraordinary figure.

483
00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:07.320
<v Satyajit Das>In Australia, there is a belief that housing prices never go down.

484
00:23:07.800 --> 00:23:10.380
<v Satyajit Das>If you actually go back in history to places like Japan,

485
00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:12.740
<v Satyajit Das>and Japan is very, very relevant to our experience,

486
00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:15.020
<v Satyajit Das>because we are all in danger of turning Japanese.

487
00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:19.220
<v Satyajit Das>Effectively, in this particular environment in Japan,

488
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:23.080
<v Satyajit Das>housing prices have never ever regained the levels pre-1989.

489
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.760
<v Satyajit Das>So what is happening now is global growth is coming down

490
00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:31.080
<v Satyajit Das>in response to the lower availability of finance.

491
00:23:31.580 --> 00:23:33.240
<v Satyajit Das>And if you actually look at world GDP,

492
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.420
<v Satyajit Das>it's actually peeling off at an absolutely astonishing rate.

493
00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:39.000
<v Satyajit Das>If you look at the rate of change,

494
00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:42.740
<v Satyajit Das>I've gone back and constructed figures until about the 1910s,

495
00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:46.240
<v Satyajit Das>the rate of change has never been seen before.

496
00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:50.900
<v Satyajit Das>And what we're seeing is now a stabilization in the rate of change,

497
00:23:51.020 --> 00:23:54.960
<v Satyajit Das>which has given rise to this horticultural analogy of the green shoots.

498
00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:58.920
<v Satyajit Das>Effectively, if you look at the data dough between the end of last year

499
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.480
<v Satyajit Das>and the first quarter of this year,

500
00:24:00.600 --> 00:24:03.100
<v Satyajit Das>if you look at Japan, you look at the Eurozone,

501
00:24:03.120 --> 00:24:05.760
<v Satyajit Das>you look at the United States, which is the three major parts of the economy,

502
00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:07.860
<v Satyajit Das>they're actually still falling,

503
00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:11.260
<v Satyajit Das>but they've flattened off the rate of decline.

504
00:24:11.260 --> 00:24:16.260
<v Satyajit Das>And this year, we will actually fall by roughly globally about 3%,

505
00:24:16.840 --> 00:24:18.700
<v Satyajit Das>though nobody can agree with the figures.

506
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.440
<v Satyajit Das>And particularly in places like Europe and Japan,

507
00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:22.980
<v Satyajit Das>it will be a devastating fall.

508
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.520
<v Satyajit Das>The economy will roughly lose 5% to 10%.

509
00:24:25.520 --> 00:24:27.060
<v Satyajit Das>The US will be a little better.

510
00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:30.120
<v Satyajit Das>The only economies which will grow in any meaningful way

511
00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:31.220
<v Satyajit Das>will be China and India.

512
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Satyajit Das>That's if you believe the numbers.

513
00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:36.060
<v Satyajit Das>The most miraculous thing is this is almost like the resurrection.

514
00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:40.420
<v Satyajit Das>If you look at 2010, somehow miraculously there will be a turnaround.

515
00:24:40.420 --> 00:24:45.660
<v Satyajit Das>Of almost, best way to put it, miraculous proportions

516
00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:48.700
<v Satyajit Das>which will need beautification of many, many economists.

517
00:24:50.500 --> 00:24:54.300
<v Satyajit Das>At the same time, what's happening is global trade and capital flows,

518
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.960
<v Satyajit Das>which have driven the global economy in the last 20 years, is slowing down.

519
00:24:58.320 --> 00:25:00.540
<v Satyajit Das>We're now moving to an era of protectionism.

520
00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:02.720
<v Satyajit Das>Global trade has definitely declined.

521
00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:05.200
<v Satyajit Das>Global capital flowing around has declined.

522
00:25:05.580 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Satyajit Das>And we're seeing implicit trade barriers.

523
00:25:07.780 --> 00:25:10.100
<v Satyajit Das>We're seeing economic and financial nationalism.

524
00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:14.520
<v Satyajit Das>For instance, one of the interesting debates in Australia is the foreign banks.

525
00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:19.260
<v Satyajit Das>If I was in England and I now owned the Royal Bank of Scotland

526
00:25:19.260 --> 00:25:22.440
<v Satyajit Das>or Lloyd's HBOS, which is the other major bank,

527
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:24.580
<v Satyajit Das>as the shareholders are actually the taxpayers,

528
00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:28.720
<v Satyajit Das>why does it matter to me whether that bank lends money to an Australian company?

529
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.800
<v Satyajit Das>After all, the Australian voters don't vote in the UK election next year.

530
00:25:33.520 --> 00:25:35.900
<v Satyajit Das>So there will be huge amounts of nationalism

531
00:25:35.900 --> 00:25:38.020
<v Satyajit Das>reversing some of the benefits of globalization.

532
00:25:38.600 --> 00:25:40.220
<v Satyajit Das>And we're seeing people like the Chinese,

533
00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:41.360
<v Satyajit Das>who sometimes manipulate their currency.

534
00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:44.000
<v Satyajit Das>And we're also seeing the other great element,

535
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.060
<v Satyajit Das>which is immigration, slow down.

536
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.880
<v Satyajit Das>People underestimate the power of immigration.

537
00:25:49.340 --> 00:25:52.340
<v Satyajit Das>If you go to Dubai, it's actually an astonishing place

538
00:25:52.340 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Satyajit Das>because the actual population is one and a half million.

539
00:25:55.660 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Satyajit Das>Only about 100,000 to 150,000 are indigenous.

540
00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:02.940
<v Satyajit Das>The other almost 90% of the population comes from various places.

541
00:26:03.340 --> 00:26:09.620
<v Satyajit Das>In the United Arab Emirates, the EMI, R-A-T-S, stands for English Managed.

542
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.600
<v Satyajit Das>Indian-run, Arabs taking excessive salaries.

543
00:26:15.800 --> 00:26:18.480
<v Satyajit Das>But as these economies actually slow down,

544
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.260
<v Satyajit Das>what actually happens is these people from India,

545
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.480
<v Satyajit Das>from the Philippines and Thailand not working,

546
00:26:24.500 --> 00:26:25.540
<v Satyajit Das>do not send home money.

547
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.440
<v Satyajit Das>So those economies are also affected in an invidious cycle.

548
00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:33.980
<v Satyajit Das>If you actually go to London, I've always said to people that these days,

549
00:26:34.020 --> 00:26:37.340
<v Satyajit Das>if you speak Polish, it's much more useful in hotels than speaking English.

550
00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:41.400
<v Satyajit Das>And this graph just shows effectively what is happening to trade.

551
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.260
<v Satyajit Das>And interestingly enough, if you look on the left-hand side,

552
00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:48.940
<v Satyajit Das>our great hope, which our central bank governor and treasurer keeps saying,

553
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.480
<v Satyajit Das>is China.

554
00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:54.640
<v Satyajit Das>In China, the export part of the economy is about 40% of their economy.

555
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.960
<v Satyajit Das>And that's falling at the rate of about 40%, which is extraordinary.

556
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:00.680
<v Satyajit Das>Australia has come out of this very well,

557
00:27:00.780 --> 00:27:02.880
<v Satyajit Das>simply because our currency collapsed

558
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.000
<v Satyajit Das>and there is an element of currency adjustment in that which is missing.

559
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:07.320
<v Satyajit Das>But this is the other issue.

560
00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:08.200
<v Satyajit Das>This is a very astonishing statistic.

561
00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:11.760
<v Satyajit Das>These emerging countries need money to grow.

562
00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:15.640
<v Satyajit Das>And this cross-border capital flow by loans and investment

563
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:19.620
<v Satyajit Das>peaked, as you can see, at $1 trillion in 2007.

564
00:27:20.180 --> 00:27:22.640
<v Satyajit Das>Last year, it fell to under $500 billion.

565
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:27.460
<v Satyajit Das>This year, it's going to be under $200 billion.

566
00:27:27.540 --> 00:27:29.120
<v Satyajit Das>It's fallen by 80%.

567
00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:33.300
<v Satyajit Das>So many of these countries will struggle to get the money

568
00:27:33.300 --> 00:27:35.920
<v Satyajit Das>which is necessary to fund growth.

569
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:39.360
<v Satyajit Das>And as trade goes, so does global growth.

570
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:43.120
<v Satyajit Das>Now, as you know, we are very integrated

571
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:48.960
<v Satyajit Das>since the Keating days, really, and the Bob Hawke days.

572
00:27:49.340 --> 00:27:52.820
<v Satyajit Das>We've become more and more Asian-centric rather than Eurocentric.

573
00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:56.920
<v Satyajit Das>But the problem is the Asian economies are now seeing a very, very sharp downturn.

574
00:27:57.860 --> 00:27:59.300
<v Satyajit Das>And the reason is pretty simple.

575
00:27:59.360 --> 00:28:01.440
<v Satyajit Das>If you look at the right-hand side of the graph,

576
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.140
<v Satyajit Das>they also built a built-to-fail economic model.

577
00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:07.340
<v Satyajit Das>It was built entirely on exports.

578
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.260
<v Satyajit Das>If you look at the right-hand side, you can see that in the last 20 years,

579
00:28:11.560 --> 00:28:14.000
<v Satyajit Das>their economies have been entirely built on exports,

580
00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:16.460
<v Satyajit Das>primarily to the United States and to Europe.

581
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.980
<v Satyajit Das>And in fact, domestic consumption has actually fallen substantially

582
00:28:21.620 --> 00:28:22.700
<v Satyajit Das>over that period.

583
00:28:23.060 --> 00:28:26.000
<v Satyajit Das>And by the way, these are the people who we are relying on

584
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.940
<v Satyajit Das>as Australia to pull us out effectively of the global recession.

585
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:33.480
<v Satyajit Das>So as this process happens,

586
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.500
<v Satyajit Das>the process we saw before goes into reversal.

587
00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:38.860
<v Satyajit Das>The amount of money in the world dries up.

588
00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:40.800
<v Satyajit Das>Seesaw corrects.

589
00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:42.900
<v Satyajit Das>And what actually happens, as you can see,

590
00:28:42.940 --> 00:28:46.160
<v Satyajit Das>is as liquidity decreases, asset prices start to fall.

591
00:28:46.580 --> 00:28:49.380
<v Satyajit Das>And that is the process which we are now encountering.

592
00:28:50.620 --> 00:28:52.480
<v Satyajit Das>As you can see, certain people...

593
00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:56.480
<v Satyajit Das>Nobody has been immune from this.

594
00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:02.980
<v Satyajit Das>Some of you will remember a film.

595
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:05.640
<v Satyajit Das>Ferris Bueller's Day Out.

596
00:29:07.340 --> 00:29:07.820
<v Satyajit Das>Sloan.

597
00:29:09.300 --> 00:29:10.860
<v Satyajit Das>Ferris, what are we going to do?

598
00:29:12.460 --> 00:29:12.940
<v Satyajit Das>Ferris.

599
00:29:14.020 --> 00:29:16.240
<v Satyajit Das>It's not what we are going to do.

600
00:29:17.260 --> 00:29:20.120
<v Satyajit Das>It's what aren't we going to do.

601
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.340
<v Satyajit Das>That is the mantra of every Treasury Secretary,

602
00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:25.660
<v Satyajit Das>every Chancellor of the Exchequer.

603
00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:28.500
<v Satyajit Das>And this plan is called different things.

604
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:31.220
<v Satyajit Das>Gordon Brown calls it wit, whatever it takes.

605
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:32.680
<v Satyajit Das>Wit is not a characteristic.

606
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.460
<v Satyajit Das>I normally associate with Gordon Brown.

607
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.560
<v Satyajit Das>Obama calls this win, whatever is necessary.

608
00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:44.720
<v Satyajit Das>Our own Wayne Swan calls it wane.

609
00:29:45.800 --> 00:29:47.760
<v Satyajit Das>Whatever action is necessary.

610
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:53.600
<v Satyajit Das>So what we are now seeing is basically a two-pronged action set.

611
00:29:53.820 --> 00:29:56.000
<v Satyajit Das>The first bit is we've got to save the banks.

612
00:29:56.180 --> 00:29:56.740
<v Satyajit Das>Why?

613
00:29:56.980 --> 00:29:59.220
<v Satyajit Das>Because without the banks, we'll all be ruined.

614
00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:01.980
<v Satyajit Das>So essentially, the bankers have convinced them of that.

615
00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.160
<v Satyajit Das>And so what they are doing is putting money into banks.

616
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:06.660
<v Satyajit Das>They are basically guaranteeing their funding as in Australia.

617
00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:09.860
<v Satyajit Das>And they are trying to get all these toxic loans off their balance sheet.

618
00:30:10.020 --> 00:30:11.840
<v Satyajit Das>And at the same time, they are trying to prevent further losses

619
00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:14.500
<v Satyajit Das>by reflating the economy through rate cuts,

620
00:30:15.040 --> 00:30:18.760
<v Satyajit Das>the massive fiscal stimulus, and the housing packages.

621
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.840
<v Satyajit Das>Now, just to show you how this process works is central banks

622
00:30:22.840 --> 00:30:25.700
<v Satyajit Das>actually have very limited tools, and governments have very limited tools.

623
00:30:25.940 --> 00:30:28.780
<v Satyajit Das>They've got two balance sheets, the central bank and the government balance sheet.

624
00:30:28.820 --> 00:30:31.880
<v Satyajit Das>So what they are doing, as you can see, is they are buying all these toxic debts.

625
00:30:32.780 --> 00:30:33.780
<v Satyajit Das>Off the banks.

626
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:36.040
<v Satyajit Das>By the way, that means you now own them.

627
00:30:36.120 --> 00:30:37.180
<v Satyajit Das>I now own them.

628
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.240
<v Satyajit Das>And in return, what they are doing is putting money into the banks

629
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:42.580
<v Satyajit Das>to help finance the banks.

630
00:30:42.760 --> 00:30:45.260
<v Satyajit Das>And the governments in some cases, like in the United States,

631
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.480
<v Satyajit Das>are directly taking equity stakes or putting share capital into the banks.

632
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:54.220
<v Satyajit Das>They are also actually selling them government debt on the other side to finance them.

633
00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:56.680
<v Satyajit Das>And they are also obviously guaranteeing some of this debt.

634
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:59.740
<v Satyajit Das>This is the process that's going on with your money.

635
00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:01.900
<v Satyajit Das>The question is,

636
00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:03.200
<v Satyajit Das>is it going to work?

637
00:31:04.940 --> 00:31:06.520
<v Satyajit Das>But just before we do that,

638
00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:08.160
<v Satyajit Das>what's it going to cost?

639
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:12.940
<v Satyajit Das>The US bailout commitments to date, they haven't spent it all,

640
00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:15.220
<v Satyajit Das>is about 12.1 trillion.

641
00:31:16.320 --> 00:31:19.200
<v Satyajit Das>That's 80% of the gross domestic product in the United States.

642
00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:23.860
<v Satyajit Das>That's $42,105 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.

643
00:31:24.120 --> 00:31:26.160
<v Satyajit Das>It's 14 times the currency in circulation.

644
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:30.460
<v Satyajit Das>I have no idea how much a trillion dollars is.

645
00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:31.660
<v Satyajit Das>I just can't even imagine it.

646
00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:33.320
<v Satyajit Das>So I thought I'd help you visualize it.

647
00:31:33.820 --> 00:31:34.480
<v Satyajit Das>That's $100.

648
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.480
<v Satyajit Das>That's actually $10,000.

649
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Satyajit Das>That's actually a million dollars in $100 notes.

650
00:31:45.540 --> 00:31:46.940
<v Satyajit Das>That's actually a billion dollars.

651
00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:52.080
<v Satyajit Das>That's a trillion dollars.

652
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:53.600
<v Satyajit Das>And if you're wondering where you are,

653
00:31:59.020 --> 00:32:02.060
<v Satyajit Das>I don't believe governments can prevail.

654
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Satyajit Das>Let's go back to our little diagram,

655
00:32:04.860 --> 00:32:06.540
<v Satyajit Das>a diagrammatic way of thinking about that.

656
00:32:06.620 --> 00:32:07.840
<v Satyajit Das>QP times MV.

657
00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:11.800
<v Satyajit Das>What we're seeing now is governments are trying to push more money into the economy.

658
00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:16.220
<v Satyajit Das>Fundamentally, that's going to fail for the simple reason

659
00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:21.400
<v Satyajit Das>government cannot be the economy unless we want to go to a socialist, communist system.

660
00:32:22.600 --> 00:32:25.300
<v Satyajit Das>Governments basically take money from one sector and give it to another.

661
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:27.240
<v Satyajit Das>They cannot be the entire economy.

662
00:32:27.540 --> 00:32:29.420
<v Satyajit Das>There's a limit to what the governments can do.

663
00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:32.660
<v Satyajit Das>And the second thing is as long as the banking system is broken,

664
00:32:33.300 --> 00:32:38.160
<v Satyajit Das>the velocity of money, the circulation of money goes very close to zero.

665
00:32:38.280 --> 00:32:39.400
<v Satyajit Das>And that's what's actually happened.

666
00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:45.920
<v Satyajit Das>And last time I did my mathematics, anything multiplied by zero is still zero.

667
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.560
<v Satyajit Das>What that means is that right-hand side cannot expand rapidly enough.

668
00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:54.220
<v Satyajit Das>So what happens is the left-hand side, quantity and price,

669
00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:56.220
<v Satyajit Das>have got to continue to adjust.

670
00:32:56.600 --> 00:32:58.620
<v Satyajit Das>What we're now seeing is the Q part.

671
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.180
<v Satyajit Das>What we saw over the last couple of years was the P part.

672
00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:02.220
<v Satyajit Das>Prices come down.

673
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:04.540
<v Satyajit Das>What is now happening is the quantity of production.

674
00:33:04.940 --> 00:33:06.360
<v Satyajit Das>And this is why you're seeing unemployment,

675
00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:08.180
<v Satyajit Das>why you're seeing growth slow down,

676
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:09.600
<v Satyajit Das>is the Q is coming down.

677
00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:13.640
<v Satyajit Das>Interestingly enough, are we treating the right problem?

678
00:33:13.820 --> 00:33:15.880
<v Satyajit Das>Elizabeth Warren is a rather remarkable woman.

679
00:33:16.280 --> 00:33:19.780
<v Satyajit Das>She's a professor of Harvard who I think the administration,

680
00:33:19.780 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Satyajit Das>the Paulson administration, without knowing very much about her,

681
00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:25.200
<v Satyajit Das>appointed her to head the oversight committee,

682
00:33:25.540 --> 00:33:28.880
<v Satyajit Das>which they're all now going to live to regret because she speaks her mind.

683
00:33:29.140 --> 00:33:30.260
<v Satyajit Das>This is what she has to say.

684
00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:34.360
<v Satyajit Das>One key assumption that underlies Treasury's approach,

685
00:33:34.660 --> 00:33:35.900
<v Satyajit Das>this is the US Treasury's approach,

686
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.460
<v Satyajit Das>is its belief that the system-wide deleveraging, the reduction in debt,

687
00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:42.900
<v Satyajit Das>is in large part the product of temporary liquidity constraints

688
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.740
<v Satyajit Das>resulting from the non-functioning markets for troubled assets.

689
00:33:47.840 --> 00:33:49.160
<v Satyajit Das>On the other hand,

690
00:33:49.780 --> 00:33:52.660
<v Satyajit Das>it is possible that Treasury's approach fails to acknowledge

691
00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Satyajit Das>the depth of the current downturn

692
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:58.000
<v Satyajit Das>and the degree to which the low valuation of troubled assets

693
00:33:59.580 --> 00:34:02.360
<v Satyajit Das>accurately reflects their worth.

694
00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:05.580
<v Satyajit Das>And of course we also know something about government.

695
00:34:06.060 --> 00:34:09.460
<v Satyajit Das>Never in the history of the world has there been a situation so bad

696
00:34:09.460 --> 00:34:10.840
<v Satyajit Das>that government can't make it worse.

697
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.760
<v Satyajit Das>Ironically, this is like the hair of the dog cure for rabies.

698
00:34:18.160 --> 00:34:19.540
<v Satyajit Das>That graph shows you,

699
00:34:19.540 --> 00:34:22.760
<v Satyajit Das>the red is actually the amount of debt in the system

700
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.880
<v Satyajit Das>held by private enterprises.

701
00:34:25.180 --> 00:34:27.140
<v Satyajit Das>So you, me, companies.

702
00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:29.480
<v Satyajit Das>As you can see, that's going down

703
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:31.620
<v Satyajit Das>because those people are actually reducing debt.

704
00:34:31.820 --> 00:34:36.220
<v Satyajit Das>On the other side, have a look at the lighter-colored, yellowish line.

705
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:37.360
<v Satyajit Das>That's government debt.

706
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.940
<v Satyajit Das>The point I'm making is we haven't even started the cure

707
00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:43.140
<v Satyajit Das>because the cure has to be a reduction in debt.

708
00:34:43.340 --> 00:34:46.700
<v Satyajit Das>We are now trying to hold back the tide.

709
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:49.460
<v Satyajit Das>So the Treasurers of the world and the Prime Minister,

710
00:34:49.540 --> 00:34:52.080
<v Satyajit Das>are doing a King Canute.

711
00:34:53.240 --> 00:34:55.220
<v Satyajit Das>They're trying to hold back the tide.

712
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:56.280
<v Satyajit Das>And if you read the legend,

713
00:34:56.620 --> 00:34:58.940
<v Satyajit Das>he only tried to hold back the tide

714
00:34:59.540 --> 00:35:02.700
<v Satyajit Das>to fail to demonstrate the fallibility of man.

715
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.580
<v Satyajit Das>And this is the rickety fiscal position we now find ourselves.

716
00:35:08.220 --> 00:35:10.760
<v Satyajit Das>This is how much debt the government will run out.

717
00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:12.200
<v Satyajit Das>As you can see on the right-hand side,

718
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:15.240
<v Satyajit Das>all the economies basically in the West will run out more debt.

719
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:16.940
<v Satyajit Das>By the way, you're responsible for that.

720
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.460
<v Satyajit Das>Remember, the government doesn't really exist.

721
00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:20.060
<v Satyajit Das>It's you who are running up the debt.

722
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.920
<v Satyajit Das>If you actually look at this, this is the percentage increases.

723
00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:24.780
<v Satyajit Das>They're extraordinary.

724
00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:27.180
<v Satyajit Das>The US will have to borrow $3 trillion this year.

725
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:31.460
<v Satyajit Das>That's an increase which is relatively modest by UK standards

726
00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.840
<v Satyajit Das>where the growths will go up by almost four times.

727
00:35:35.700 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Satyajit Das>Now, if you actually look at how much money in aggregate

728
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.220
<v Satyajit Das>the governments of the economies listed on the left are borrowing,

729
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.300
<v Satyajit Das>they're going to borrow about $10 trillion over this cycle.

730
00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:46.800
<v Satyajit Das>Now, that's actually not correct.

731
00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:48.380
<v Satyajit Das>It's Kenneth Rogers.

732
00:35:48.380 --> 00:35:51.240
<v Satyajit Das>A well-respected economist at Harvard University,

733
00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:54.980
<v Satyajit Das>looking at previous crisis, said that $10 trillion is not going to be enough.

734
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.380
<v Satyajit Das>He said the best case is $15 trillion.

735
00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:01.700
<v Satyajit Das>The worst case is about $33 trillion based on previous crisis.

736
00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:04.320
<v Satyajit Das>Now, I have trouble with the trillion dollars.

737
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:06.360
<v Satyajit Das>$33 trillion just doesn't register anymore.

738
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:11.280
<v Satyajit Das>So my question was, okay, how much savings are there in the world?

739
00:36:11.860 --> 00:36:15.140
<v Satyajit Das>So basically, if you look at the global savings pool,

740
00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:18.180
<v Satyajit Das>which is managed by banks and fund managers and so forth,

741
00:36:18.380 --> 00:36:19.440
<v Satyajit Das>that's about $130 trillion.

742
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.420
<v Satyajit Das>So roughly a quarter of that will have to be absorbed

743
00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:26.180
<v Satyajit Das>just to basically stabilize the situation.

744
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:30.740
<v Satyajit Das>This problem is not new.

745
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.680
<v Satyajit Das>James Callaghan, who Gordon Brown will resemble after next year's election,

746
00:36:35.980 --> 00:36:37.600
<v Satyajit Das>said this in 1976.

747
00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:40.840
<v Satyajit Das>We have been living on borrowed time.

748
00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:43.100
<v Satyajit Das>We used to think you could spend your way out of a recession

749
00:36:43.100 --> 00:36:47.500
<v Satyajit Das>and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending.

750
00:36:48.380 --> 00:36:53.140
<v Satyajit Das>I tell you, in all candor, that option no longer exists.

751
00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:59.220
<v Satyajit Das>As you know, Timothy Geithner went to China.

752
00:37:01.140 --> 00:37:03.780
<v Satyajit Das>And he went to China for a very specific reason.

753
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:04.640
<v Satyajit Das>He went to beg.

754
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.700
<v Satyajit Das>He went to beg that the Chinese continue to buy U.S. government debt

755
00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:15.960
<v Satyajit Das>because the Japanese, the Germans, and the Chinese buy 80% of U.S. government debt.

756
00:37:17.060 --> 00:37:18.360
<v Satyajit Das>The problem is, the Chinese are not going to buy U.S. government debt.

757
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.580
<v Satyajit Das>The Chinese will continue to buy because they have no choice.

758
00:37:21.140 --> 00:37:24.120
<v Satyajit Das>There's a type of mine used in warfare which is very insidious.

759
00:37:25.120 --> 00:37:26.800
<v Satyajit Das>It doesn't explode when you step on it.

760
00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:29.820
<v Satyajit Das>When you step on it, nothing happens.

761
00:37:30.740 --> 00:37:33.420
<v Satyajit Das>It's when you step off it, it comes out of the ground and explodes.

762
00:37:35.260 --> 00:37:36.980
<v Satyajit Das>The Chinese have stepped on that mine.

763
00:37:37.220 --> 00:37:38.560
<v Satyajit Das>It's called U.S. government debt.

764
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:43.240
<v Satyajit Das>Because if they now want to buy no more government debt,

765
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.980
<v Satyajit Das>then the value of their holdings falls and the U.S. dollar plunges,

766
00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:48.280
<v Satyajit Das>causing them to lose their entire $2 trillion.

767
00:37:49.080 --> 00:37:52.560
<v Satyajit Das>Or they keep buying, throwing more good money after bad.

768
00:37:53.240 --> 00:37:54.700
<v Satyajit Das>And they have kept buying,

769
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:59.000
<v Satyajit Das>but because of the increase in the amount of financing requirement in the United States,

770
00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:00.180
<v Satyajit Das>they can't keep pace.

771
00:38:01.580 --> 00:38:06.600
<v Satyajit Das>And Wen Jiabao struck a very strident, but in fact, panicked note when he said,

772
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.700
<v Satyajit Das>whether China will continue to buy and how much to buy

773
00:38:09.700 --> 00:38:11.980
<v Satyajit Das>should be in accordance with China's needs

774
00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:15.660
<v Satyajit Das>and depends on the safety and protection of the value of foreign exchange.

775
00:38:15.980 --> 00:38:18.460
<v Satyajit Das>He forgot Keynes' dictum.

776
00:38:19.680 --> 00:38:23.900
<v Satyajit Das>If somebody owes you a pound, he has a problem.

777
00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:27.920
<v Satyajit Das>If he owes you a million pounds, you have a problem.

778
00:38:28.740 --> 00:38:30.620
<v Satyajit Das>So I believe that very rapidly,

779
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:36.520
<v Satyajit Das>the United States dollar notes will be converted into the number one wallpaper in Asia.

780
00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:39.400
<v Satyajit Das>So how much is all this going to cost?

781
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:41.680
<v Satyajit Das>Well, I think the U.S. is going to print one of these.

782
00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:42.700
<v Satyajit Das>It's a trillion dollar note.

783
00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:44.820
<v Satyajit Das>It'll be worth exactly zero.

784
00:38:46.080 --> 00:38:48.500
<v Satyajit Das>George Washington will look alarmed on the note.

785
00:38:48.540 --> 00:38:50.180
<v Satyajit Das>His expression will have to change somewhat.

786
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:53.120
<v Satyajit Das>And this is a check.

787
00:38:53.180 --> 00:38:53.960
<v Satyajit Das>I love this check.

788
00:38:54.040 --> 00:38:55.040
<v Satyajit Das>This is one quadrillion.

789
00:38:57.640 --> 00:39:00.840
<v Satyajit Das>72 trillion, 418 million.

790
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:02.180
<v Satyajit Das>I just think I'll leave the rest out.

791
00:39:02.300 --> 00:39:03.000
<v Satyajit Das>It just doesn't matter.

792
00:39:03.120 --> 00:39:06.820
<v Satyajit Das>But I love the way it says only at the end of the words.

793
00:39:06.940 --> 00:39:09.020
<v Satyajit Das>And it's got .00 at the end.

794
00:39:09.100 --> 00:39:12.760
<v Satyajit Das>This was a check withdrawn from the banking system in Zimbabwe.

795
00:39:13.520 --> 00:39:14.760
<v Satyajit Das>It was the price of a car.

796
00:39:15.980 --> 00:39:18.500
<v Satyajit Das>The gentleman who sent it to me, I said, thank you very much.

797
00:39:18.700 --> 00:39:20.440
<v Satyajit Das>Have dinner at my expense.

798
00:39:20.520 --> 00:39:21.540
<v Satyajit Das>So he sent me this bill.

799
00:39:24.860 --> 00:39:26.420
<v Satyajit Das>I discovered it was about a dollar.

800
00:39:27.740 --> 00:39:31.820
<v Satyajit Das>But he also sent back at the same time this photo of the toilet of the Victoria Falls Hotel.

801
00:39:38.540 --> 00:39:41.240
<v Satyajit Das>Now this has become an ideological battleground.

802
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:43.600
<v Satyajit Das>Nicholas Sarkozy.

803
00:39:43.680 --> 00:39:43.960
<v Satyajit Das>I'm sorry.

804
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:44.040
<v Satyajit Das>Sorry.

805
00:39:44.040 --> 00:39:45.180
<v Satyajit Das>That's not Nicholas Sarkozy.

806
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:45.840
<v Satyajit Das>That's .

807
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:46.780
<v Satyajit Das>.

808
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:54.400
<v Satyajit Das>Kevin Rudd.

809
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Satyajit Das>.

810
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.120
<v Satyajit Das>It's those blasted neoliberals.

811
00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:03.460
<v Satyajit Das>Both sides of politics miss an essential point.

812
00:40:03.700 --> 00:40:06.120
<v Satyajit Das>The global financial crisis message is far subtler.

813
00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:08.860
<v Satyajit Das>It's about our built to fail economic models.

814
00:40:09.820 --> 00:40:11.200
<v Satyajit Das>This is the nature of the problem.

815
00:40:11.520 --> 00:40:13.120
<v Satyajit Das>After two years touring the United States,

816
00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:15.180
<v Satyajit Das>Michelangelo's David is returning to Italy.

817
00:40:16.620 --> 00:40:17.100
<v Satyajit Das>.

818
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:22.840
<v Satyajit Das>As you know,

819
00:40:23.580 --> 00:40:24.060
<v Satyajit Das>.

820
00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:30.100
<v Satyajit Das>the global economy actually is very personal.

821
00:40:30.540 --> 00:40:32.520
<v Satyajit Das>Some of us have a little bit too much weight.

822
00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:34.660
<v Satyajit Das>But we know how to lose it.

823
00:40:35.180 --> 00:40:36.880
<v Satyajit Das>You have to reduce your food intake.

824
00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:40.380
<v Satyajit Das>You basically have to show some discipline.

825
00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:42.480
<v Satyajit Das>You have to exercise.

826
00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:47.140
<v Satyajit Das>And most of all, it takes time.

827
00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:54.040
<v Satyajit Das>We are now doing the Weight Watchers program for the global economy.

828
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:56.000
<v Satyajit Das>And there is no Jenny Craig here.

829
00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:58.360
<v Satyajit Das>There is no packaged meals.

830
00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:00.800
<v Satyajit Das>There's only one way to do it.

831
00:41:00.860 --> 00:41:01.580
<v Satyajit Das>It's the hard way.

832
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.620
<v Satyajit Das>There's going to be three stages of this.

833
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Satyajit Das>The first stage is avoiding financial Armageddon.

834
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:10.360
<v Satyajit Das>Second is reducing the amount of debt in the global economy.

835
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:12.620
<v Satyajit Das>And the last one is slower growth.

836
00:41:14.180 --> 00:41:17.420
<v Satyajit Das>First stage, I think the central banks have managed to avoid that.

837
00:41:17.460 --> 00:41:18.520
<v Satyajit Das>The second one is ongoing.

838
00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:20.840
<v Satyajit Das>Third one is still to come.

839
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.580
<v Satyajit Das>Everybody is factoring in a return to the conditions that existed pre-2007.

840
00:41:25.780 --> 00:41:26.800
<v Satyajit Das>I don't think that's possible.

841
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:28.820
<v Satyajit Das>I want to just show you this.

842
00:41:29.100 --> 00:41:31.140
<v Satyajit Das>This is a guy called John Malden,

843
00:41:31.180 --> 00:41:33.280
<v Satyajit Das>who is one of the most brilliant analysts in the United States.

844
00:41:33.540 --> 00:41:36.040
<v Satyajit Das>He did a very simple piece of analysis of the US economy.

845
00:41:36.160 --> 00:41:39.720
<v Satyajit Das>The blue lines is how much the US economy grew from 2000 onwards.

846
00:41:40.120 --> 00:41:41.820
<v Satyajit Das>It's roughly between 2 and 4%.

847
00:41:42.500 --> 00:41:44.740
<v Satyajit Das>The red line is if you take out the effect of debt.

848
00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:46.720
<v Satyajit Das>MEW stands for mortgage equity withdrawals.

849
00:41:47.240 --> 00:41:50.700
<v Satyajit Das>This is the amount that people borrowed against the rise in the value of their houses

850
00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.920
<v Satyajit Das>for the purpose of consumption.

851
00:41:52.100 --> 00:41:52.700
<v Satyajit Das>That's all it is.

852
00:41:53.160 --> 00:41:56.220
<v Satyajit Das>If you take out the effect of debt, notice what actually happens.

853
00:41:56.820 --> 00:41:59.080
<v Satyajit Das>The growth level falls to 0 to 1%.

854
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.000
<v Satyajit Das>Today in the global economy, it takes $4 to $5 to create $1 of growth.

855
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Satyajit Das>And that level of debt has now gone into reverse.

856
00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:09.520
<v Satyajit Das>And you can see this very clearly.

857
00:42:09.520 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Satyajit Das>Have a look at consumption as the blue line.

858
00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:16.060
<v Satyajit Das>And the purple line is actually the amount of borrowing out of houses

859
00:42:16.060 --> 00:42:17.200
<v Satyajit Das>which was being used for consumption.

860
00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:20.280
<v Satyajit Das>The correspondence between the two lines is staggering.

861
00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:24.140
<v Satyajit Das>And also, the other unfortunate thing is if you look at the lines,

862
00:42:24.200 --> 00:42:27.060
<v Satyajit Das>the red line here is actually the debt contribution.

863
00:42:27.380 --> 00:42:28.800
<v Satyajit Das>And the blue line is employment.

864
00:42:29.040 --> 00:42:32.360
<v Satyajit Das>Because the US economy and the global economy is largely dependent on consumption,

865
00:42:32.660 --> 00:42:34.800
<v Satyajit Das>that shapes employment as well.

866
00:42:36.140 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Satyajit Das>So what's my prescription for recovery?

867
00:42:39.660 --> 00:42:42.420
<v Satyajit Das>Take some anxiety drugs, they're up about 15%.

868
00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:45.560
<v Satyajit Das>Take some depression drugs, they're up about 14%.

869
00:42:45.560 --> 00:42:47.640
<v Satyajit Das>And I think most of us are suffering from insomnia.

870
00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:50.120
<v Satyajit Das>So that's up a staggering 37%.

871
00:42:51.660 --> 00:42:54.480
<v Satyajit Das>More seriously, there's three things that have to happen.

872
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:58.700
<v Satyajit Das>Financial system has to stabilize, reducing the level of overall debt to sustainable levels.

873
00:42:59.140 --> 00:43:01.240
<v Satyajit Das>Getting credit flowing in a normal way.

874
00:43:01.660 --> 00:43:06.040
<v Satyajit Das>The real economy, we have to stabilize the price of things like housing prices in the United States.

875
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:09.500
<v Satyajit Das>And we have to arrest falls in demand, unemployment, construction.

876
00:43:09.500 --> 00:43:13.840
<v Satyajit Das>And we have to address the Ponsse trade,

877
00:43:14.120 --> 00:43:16.940
<v Satyajit Das>which is the imbalance between China and the United States.

878
00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:21.140
<v Satyajit Das>By the way, the Chinese had a little bit of a hissy fit at the G8.

879
00:43:21.700 --> 00:43:23.440
<v Satyajit Das>They do that from time to time.

880
00:43:23.660 --> 00:43:26.220
<v Satyajit Das>And I think the pressures of the Uighurs,

881
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:28.620
<v Satyajit Das>I thought they were called Uighurs until recently,

882
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:30.020
<v Satyajit Das>but apparently they're Uighurs now.

883
00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:35.160
<v Satyajit Das>But basically, the problems in Xinjiang was essentially led to a little outburst

884
00:43:35.160 --> 00:43:39.140
<v Satyajit Das>where they said basically that the US dollar was being just devalued

885
00:43:39.140 --> 00:43:39.480
<v Satyajit Das>and they were going to be devalued.

886
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:40.320
<v Satyajit Das>They were going to lose a lot of money.

887
00:43:40.740 --> 00:43:44.240
<v Satyajit Das>Whereupon, Gordon Brown said that it really was just sort of

888
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.760
<v Satyajit Das>unwelcome comments about trying to address these sorts of issues.

889
00:43:49.060 --> 00:43:50.680
<v Satyajit Das>Because they were quite happy in their ignorance

890
00:43:50.680 --> 00:43:53.800
<v Satyajit Das>and would like to stay in that state for a prolonged period of time.

891
00:43:55.100 --> 00:43:58.680
<v Satyajit Das>And of course, there are the chance of all of those occurring simultaneously

892
00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:01.500
<v Satyajit Das>is the same as swine flu, really.

893
00:44:05.240 --> 00:44:07.800
<v Satyajit Das>My friend Wolfgang Muncher writes for the FT,

894
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.900
<v Satyajit Das>and he summed this up very elegantly.

895
00:44:10.180 --> 00:44:12.720
<v Satyajit Das>Instead of solving the problems to generate a recovery,

896
00:44:13.020 --> 00:44:16.600
<v Satyajit Das>the political strategies have consisted of waiting for a recovery to solve the problem.

897
00:44:17.520 --> 00:44:20.320
<v Satyajit Das>The Europeans are relying on the Americans to generate growth.

898
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.120
<v Satyajit Das>The Americans are relying on the Chinese,

899
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.120
<v Satyajit Das>who in turn are waiting for the rest of the world.

900
00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:29.180
<v Satyajit Das>I'm not allowed to say recession.

901
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:30.680
<v Satyajit Das>I'm not allowed to say depression.

902
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:35.880
<v Satyajit Das>But if you look at those graphs in terms of output, volume,

903
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.780
<v Satyajit Das>growth in money supply, the position of government budgets,

904
00:44:40.040 --> 00:44:44.480
<v Satyajit Das>they remarkably show the same tracking as the Great Recession.

905
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:48.660
<v Satyajit Das>However, I'm not suggesting for a second we'll have that,

906
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:52.240
<v Satyajit Das>but it is salutary to see that things are perhaps not as rosy as we think.

907
00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:59.540
<v Satyajit Das>We built the modern age on economic models which are deeply flawed,

908
00:45:00.220 --> 00:45:01.500
<v Satyajit Das>built on debt and emissions,

909
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:04.660
<v Satyajit Das>and also fundamentally on the ability and our belief

910
00:45:04.660 --> 00:45:07.560
<v Satyajit Das>that we can control our physical and economic environment.

911
00:45:08.160 --> 00:45:12.660
<v Satyajit Das>We built up debt, and those are the statistics on carbon emissions,

912
00:45:13.080 --> 00:45:16.580
<v Satyajit Das>which actually follow remarkably the same upward trajectory as debt.

913
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.740
<v Satyajit Das>In other words, what I'm saying, there are limits to growth.

914
00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:27.760
<v Satyajit Das>In fact, we now have the communists telling us how to run our economy.

915
00:45:29.040 --> 00:45:32.660
<v Satyajit Das>Overconsumption and high reliance on credit is the cause of the US financial crisis,

916
00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:34.640
<v Satyajit Das>as the largest and most important reason for the economic crisis in the world.

917
00:45:34.660 --> 00:45:36.120
<v Satyajit Das>In the case of the US,

918
00:45:36.120 --> 00:45:38.920
<v Satyajit Das>the US should take the initiative to adjust its policies,

919
00:45:39.240 --> 00:45:41.060
<v Satyajit Das>raise its savings ratio appropriately,

920
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:43.360
<v Satyajit Das>and reduce its trade and fiscal deficits.

921
00:45:44.140 --> 00:45:45.040
<v Satyajit Das>Hu Jintao said,

922
00:45:45.260 --> 00:45:46.100
<v Satyajit Das>from a long-term perspective,

923
00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:49.120
<v Satyajit Das>it's necessary to change those models of economic growth

924
00:45:49.660 --> 00:45:50.720
<v Satyajit Das>that are not sustainable,

925
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.320
<v Satyajit Das>and to address the underlying problems in member economies.

926
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:55.600
<v Satyajit Das>Interestingly enough,

927
00:45:55.640 --> 00:45:57.000
<v Satyajit Das>Keynes said that in 1930.

928
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.840
<v Satyajit Das>We have involved ourselves in a colossal muddle,

929
00:46:00.940 --> 00:46:04.400
<v Satyajit Das>having blundered in the control of a delicate machine,

930
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:06.900
<v Satyajit Das>the working of which we do not understand.

931
00:46:08.980 --> 00:46:10.180
<v Satyajit Das>So what is the future?

932
00:46:10.940 --> 00:46:11.940
<v Satyajit Das>Lower growth,

933
00:46:12.660 --> 00:46:13.920
<v Satyajit Das>lower living standard,

934
00:46:14.940 --> 00:46:15.820
<v Satyajit Das>higher unemployment,

935
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.480
<v Satyajit Das>and with that, greater social unrest.

936
00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:23.180
<v Satyajit Das>Leonard Cohen saw the future.

937
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:25.720
<v Satyajit Das>Give me back the Berlin Wall.

938
00:46:26.660 --> 00:46:29.520
<v Satyajit Das>Give me Stalin and St. Paul.

939
00:46:30.160 --> 00:46:31.360
<v Satyajit Das>Give me Christ,

940
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:33.340
<v Satyajit Das>or give me Hiroshima.

941
00:46:34.540 --> 00:46:35.760
<v Satyajit Das>I've seen the future.

942
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:37.940
<v Satyajit Das>It is murder.

943
00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:41.340
<v Satyajit Das>So we face an interesting choice.

944
00:46:42.100 --> 00:46:43.740
<v Satyajit Das>The choice was posed beautifully

945
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:46.160
<v Satyajit Das>by, of all people, Woody Allen.

946
00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.100
<v Satyajit Das>More than any other time in history,

947
00:46:50.220 --> 00:46:51.860
<v Satyajit Das>mankind faces a crossroads.

948
00:46:52.420 --> 00:46:55.220
<v Satyajit Das>One part leads to despair and utter hopelessness,

949
00:46:55.300 --> 00:46:57.040
<v Satyajit Das>the other to total extinction.

950
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.020
<v Satyajit Das>Let us pray we have the wisdom

951
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.060
<v Satyajit Das>to choose correctly.

952
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:04.640
<v Satyajit Das>Thank you.

953
00:47:16.620 --> 00:47:19.280
<v Satyajit Das>I'm happy to take questions, answer abuse...

954
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:21.460
<v Satyajit Das>..violence I'm not so sure about...

955
00:47:23.180 --> 00:47:24.000
<v Satyajit Das>..any questions?

956
00:47:25.460 --> 00:47:26.020
<v Satyajit Das>Yeah...

957
00:47:26.020 --> 00:47:27.060
<v Speaker 3>Does...

958
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:28.900
<v Speaker 3>..correct me if...

959
00:47:28.900 --> 00:47:29.280
<v Speaker 3>..you address...

960
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:30.440
<v Satyajit Das>Oh, yes...

961
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:31.480
<v Satyajit Das>..I get letters to...

962
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:32.060
<v Satyajit Das>..dass...dass...

963
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:34.020
<v Satyajit Das>please use that

964
00:47:46.180 --> 00:47:49.320
<v Satyajit Das>the barbaric relic as Keynes called it

965
00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:54.200
<v Satyajit Das>look the gold standard has huge problems

966
00:47:54.200 --> 00:47:56.060
<v Satyajit Das>firstly there's not enough gold in the world

967
00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:59.940
<v Satyajit Das>and any standard which has an artificial link is flawed

968
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:05.060
<v Satyajit Das>so I'm not particularly in favour of essentially a gold standard

969
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:08.600
<v Satyajit Das>fundamentally I think the best way to think about money

970
00:48:08.600 --> 00:48:10.860
<v Satyajit Das>is it's a Faustian bargain

971
00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:12.160
<v Satyajit Das>it's a Frankenstein monster

972
00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:16.800
<v Satyajit Das>once money got stripped away from purely a mechanism for exchange

973
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.620
<v Satyajit Das>and essentially a mechanism for denominating values

974
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.740
<v Satyajit Das>this is the process we end up with

975
00:48:23.740 --> 00:48:26.200
<v Satyajit Das>and I'm not a great believer that you know

976
00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Satyajit Das>I'm a great fan of T.S. Eliot

977
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:29.440
<v Satyajit Das>and he was the one who said

978
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.920
<v Satyajit Das>the world ends

979
00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:31.560
<v Satyajit Das>with a whimper not a bang

980
00:48:31.560 --> 00:48:33.020
<v Satyajit Das>so we're going to muddle through

981
00:48:33.020 --> 00:48:35.060
<v Satyajit Das>I don't think we're going to go back to a gold standard

982
00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:37.980
<v Satyajit Das>because that would artificially create different problems

983
00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:40.360
<v Satyajit Das>as it did during the 1920s and 1930s

984
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:42.760
<v Satyajit Das>so I don't think going back to that is a problem

985
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:44.940
<v Satyajit Das>but we are going to muddle along

986
00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:47.060
<v Satyajit Das>and I think one of the things that will happen

987
00:48:47.060 --> 00:48:49.460
<v Satyajit Das>is the idea of the US dollar as a unipolar

988
00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:52.260
<v Satyajit Das>sort of reserve currency in the world will go away

989
00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:54.600
<v Satyajit Das>and that was a very very unwise idea

990
00:48:55.080 --> 00:48:57.080
<v Satyajit Das>but I don't know what will replace it to be honest

991
00:48:57.080 --> 00:48:58.360
<v Satyajit Das>but I can't see it being gold

992
00:48:58.360 --> 00:48:58.740
<v Satyajit Das>so

993
00:48:59.140 --> 00:48:59.920
<v Satyajit Das>it has a lot of value

994
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:00.840
<v Satyajit Das>it has a lot of intuitive appeal

995
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:02.700
<v Satyajit Das>and you know I noticed with interest

996
00:49:02.700 --> 00:49:04.100
<v Satyajit Das>the gold bugs think I'm one of them

997
00:49:04.100 --> 00:49:05.300
<v Satyajit Das>but I'm actually not one of them

998
00:49:05.300 --> 00:49:06.600
<v Satyajit Das>it's kind of interesting

999
00:49:06.600 --> 00:49:09.700
<v Satyajit Das>people embrace you and reject you for all sorts of odd reasons

1000
00:49:09.700 --> 00:49:11.700
<v Satyajit Das>but I think under those circumstances

1001
00:49:11.700 --> 00:49:14.200
<v Satyajit Das>I think it has more problems than solutions

1002
00:49:14.780 --> 00:49:16.340
<v Satyajit Das>that would be very good for Australia though

1003
00:49:16.340 --> 00:49:17.800
<v Satyajit Das>if the gold standard was to come

1004
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:20.840
<v Satyajit Das>because we hold large gold reserves in the ground

1005
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:22.560
<v Satyajit Das>but no I don't think it'll happen

1006
00:49:23.340 --> 00:49:27.560
<v Speaker 4>I wonder whether a big part of the problem

1007
00:49:27.560 --> 00:49:29.140
<v Speaker 4>if not the central problem is that

1008
00:49:29.140 --> 00:49:33.580
<v Speaker 4>we speaking of Western tradition anyway

1009
00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:37.560
<v Speaker 4>allowed people to be able to charge interest

1010
00:49:38.520 --> 00:49:41.180
<v Speaker 4>do you think that usury interest

1011
00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:44.100
<v Speaker 4>once it was allowed hundreds of years ago

1012
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:48.580
<v Speaker 4>to be charged by people banks especially

1013
00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:51.920
<v Speaker 4>do you think that that should be abolished

1014
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:55.540
<v Speaker 4>or if we are going to have the ability to charge interest at all

1015
00:49:55.540 --> 00:49:57.240
<v Speaker 4>that it can only be by governments

1016
00:49:57.240 --> 00:49:58.660
<v Speaker 4>that governments are in control

1017
00:49:58.660 --> 00:49:59.120
<v Speaker 4>and so on

1018
00:49:59.140 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Speaker 4>and so forth at all times

1019
00:49:59.960 --> 00:50:02.200
<v Speaker 4>maybe the maximum rate should be 1%

1020
00:50:02.200 --> 00:50:06.440
<v Speaker 4>and never should governments have to borrow from private institutions

1021
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:11.200
<v Satyajit Das>look I think that poses profound issues

1022
00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:13.460
<v Satyajit Das>about how we structure the economic system

1023
00:50:13.460 --> 00:50:17.420
<v Satyajit Das>and to be very blunt I think debt is not all bad

1024
00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:20.960
<v Satyajit Das>because that enables you to do certain things now

1025
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:23.640
<v Satyajit Das>which otherwise you couldn't be able to do later on

1026
00:50:23.640 --> 00:50:26.920
<v Satyajit Das>most of the world's development over the last 200-300 years

1027
00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:28.860
<v Satyajit Das>has debt somewhere in that equation

1028
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:29.980
<v Satyajit Das>so I don't think it's all bad

1029
00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:32.660
<v Satyajit Das>I think also what we have to have

1030
00:50:32.660 --> 00:50:34.920
<v Satyajit Das>I don't think is a control over interest rates

1031
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:41.040
<v Satyajit Das>I think the financial system cannot be seen as the driver of the global economy

1032
00:50:41.040 --> 00:50:42.880
<v Satyajit Das>it has to be the real economy

1033
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:47.200
<v Satyajit Das>and I think what I would welcome is much greater controls on banks

1034
00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:49.740
<v Satyajit Das>and much greater control on credit creation

1035
00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:52.260
<v Satyajit Das>which goes to the other question that was asked on gold

1036
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:53.960
<v Satyajit Das>that would solve a lot of our problems

1037
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:58.380
<v Satyajit Das>rather than going down the road of absolute regulation of interest rates

1038
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:00.160
<v Satyajit Das>because frankly if you look at the world

1039
00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:01.600
<v Satyajit Das>particularly in places like Australia

1040
00:51:02.380 --> 00:51:03.780
<v Satyajit Das>there's a whole bunch of people who are retiring

1041
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:07.500
<v Satyajit Das>who are dependent on their interest checks to effectively actually survive

1042
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:10.160
<v Satyajit Das>so you know it's a question of who do you disadvantage

1043
00:51:10.160 --> 00:51:11.760
<v Satyajit Das>it's a very delicate balancing act

1044
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:15.160
<v Satyajit Das>so I would prefer to see the financial drivers of the economy

1045
00:51:15.160 --> 00:51:16.680
<v Satyajit Das>controlled a little more tightly

1046
00:51:17.380 --> 00:51:19.220
<v Satyajit Das>rather than an absolute ban on interest

1047
00:51:19.220 --> 00:51:20.860
<v Satyajit Das>but there should be certain types

1048
00:51:20.860 --> 00:51:23.820
<v Satyajit Das>and there are to be very fair controls on usury

1049
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:27.220
<v Satyajit Das>usury laws still exist in different forms in different places of that

1050
00:51:27.220 --> 00:51:28.360
<v Satyajit Das>and there is this whole

1051
00:51:28.380 --> 00:51:31.940
<v Satyajit Das>thing which is kind of a war of civilisations if you like

1052
00:51:31.940 --> 00:51:34.480
<v Satyajit Das>about the Islamic banking tradition and so forth

1053
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.080
<v Satyajit Das>I have to tell you there's two things about the Islamic banking tradition

1054
00:51:37.080 --> 00:51:38.380
<v Satyajit Das>which I always find very funny

1055
00:51:38.380 --> 00:51:42.380
<v Satyajit Das>one is almost every Islamic banking expert I've met is English

1056
00:51:42.380 --> 00:51:43.800
<v Satyajit Das>and not a Muslim

1057
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:45.900
<v Satyajit Das>which is the other strange part about it

1058
00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:47.900
<v Satyajit Das>and the other thing that I actually find

1059
00:51:47.900 --> 00:51:51.200
<v Satyajit Das>is every transaction that I've seen in Islamic banking

1060
00:51:51.200 --> 00:51:52.480
<v Satyajit Das>is just disguised interest

1061
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:54.160
<v Satyajit Das>it's just packaged up in different ways

1062
00:51:54.160 --> 00:51:55.420
<v Satyajit Das>so I've sort of scratched my head going

1063
00:51:55.420 --> 00:51:56.840
<v Satyajit Das>exactly how is this better?

1064
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:58.360
<v Satyajit Das>you know it just comes out of my head

1065
00:51:58.360 --> 00:51:58.960
<v Satyajit Das>out of a different jar

1066
00:51:58.960 --> 00:51:59.900
<v Satyajit Das>it's the same thing

1067
00:51:59.900 --> 00:52:03.520
<v Satyajit Das>so I think it's more about controlling the primacy of finance

1068
00:52:04.120 --> 00:52:05.600
<v Satyajit Das>relative to the rest of the economy

1069
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:07.440
<v Speaker 5>we should make real things

1070
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:08.840
<v Satyajit Das>we should have a real economy

1071
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:13.880
<v Satyajit Das>I mean why do we every day have to listen to what the stock market measures?

1072
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.400
<v Satyajit Das>I've never understood what the stock market measures

1073
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:17.420
<v Satyajit Das>I don't think the stock market understands what it measures either

1074
00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:21.380
<v Satyajit Das>so I think having a real economy and more control on the financial sector would be welcome

1075
00:52:21.380 --> 00:52:22.540
<v Speaker 4>just on that

1076
00:52:23.740 --> 00:52:25.460
<v Speaker 4>we call it the real economy

1077
00:52:26.060 --> 00:52:28.340
<v Speaker 4>my understanding of the opposite of real economy

1078
00:52:28.340 --> 00:52:28.980
<v Speaker 4>is that the real is imaginary

1079
00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:30.940
<v Speaker 4>maybe we should call a spade a spade

1080
00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:33.660
<v Speaker 4>and instead of calling the financial markets the financial markets

1081
00:52:33.660 --> 00:52:35.300
<v Speaker 4>we should call them the imaginary markets

1082
00:52:35.300 --> 00:52:39.200
<v Speaker 4>it might just help us understand the real reality of the situation better

1083
00:52:39.200 --> 00:52:39.260
<v Speaker 4>oh yes

1084
00:52:39.260 --> 00:52:43.520
<v Satyajit Das>I didn't call the book Dazzling World of Derivatives

1085
00:52:43.520 --> 00:52:45.040
<v Satyajit Das>it's a world of mirrors and reflections

1086
00:52:45.640 --> 00:52:47.920
<v Satyajit Das>and it took me only 30 years to figure out

1087
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:49.780
<v Satyajit Das>that I really didn't belong in those reflections

1088
00:52:49.780 --> 00:52:52.420
<v Satyajit Das>I wanted to ground myself in something a little more real

1089
00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:53.320
<v Satyajit Das>at the end of that

1090
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:53.820
<v Satyajit Das>so you're right

1091
00:52:55.140 --> 00:52:57.520
<v Satyajit Das>three quick questions if you'll indulge me

1092
00:52:57.520 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Speaker 6>the first one is

1093
00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:03.000
<v Speaker 6>you said that you understand we're about a third of the way through

1094
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:08.340
<v Speaker 6>so do you mean that you expect to bottom out in about six to seven years maybe

1095
00:53:08.340 --> 00:53:09.980
<v Speaker 6>the second one is

1096
00:53:09.980 --> 00:53:13.720
<v Speaker 6>if you had any wealth left after this financial tsunami

1097
00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:15.400
<v Speaker 6>where would you park it

1098
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:18.380
<v Speaker 6>because interest rates are falling to zero

1099
00:53:18.380 --> 00:53:20.780
<v Speaker 6>stock exchanges and house prices are crashing

1100
00:53:20.780 --> 00:53:23.360
<v Speaker 6>where the hell do we go now to try to maintain our living

1101
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.060
<v Speaker 6>and the third question is

1102
00:53:25.060 --> 00:53:28.160
<v Speaker 6>economists in Australia have called for people's banks

1103
00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:29.660
<v Speaker 6>similar to the one in New Zealand

1104
00:53:30.080 --> 00:53:31.820
<v Speaker 6>doesn't seem to have any political will

1105
00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:33.760
<v Speaker 6>can you comment on that please thank you

1106
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:35.480
<v Satyajit Das>first question when I was talking about third

1107
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.720
<v Satyajit Das>it's a reduction in debt that I'm talking about

1108
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.280
<v Satyajit Das>and I think we're about a third of the way through

1109
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:44.000
<v Satyajit Das>because debt in my view in the economy has to come down by 20 to 30 percent at least

1110
00:53:44.520 --> 00:53:45.700
<v Satyajit Das>and so it's going to take a while

1111
00:53:45.700 --> 00:53:47.220
<v Satyajit Das>so we're a third of the way into it

1112
00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:49.640
<v Satyajit Das>the other thing I would say is if you look at Japan

1113
00:53:50.200 --> 00:53:51.780
<v Satyajit Das>we can't talk about Japan either

1114
00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:52.760
<v Satyajit Das>we can't say the Great Recession

1115
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:54.400
<v Satyajit Das>we can't talk about it's similar to Japan

1116
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:55.520
<v Satyajit Das>this is identical to Japan

1117
00:53:55.520 --> 00:53:58.060
<v Satyajit Das>I lived through Japan from 1989 to about 1999

1118
00:53:58.160 --> 00:53:59.260
<v Satyajit Das>this is Japan

1119
00:53:59.260 --> 00:54:00.760
<v Satyajit Das>you can call it whatever you like

1120
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:01.280
<v Satyajit Das>it is Japan

1121
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:03.480
<v Satyajit Das>and the point there is

1122
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:04.400
<v Satyajit Das>that it took a long time

1123
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.960
<v Satyajit Das>now the Japanese as a society have disadvantages

1124
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:07.720
<v Satyajit Das>they're slow

1125
00:54:07.720 --> 00:54:09.060
<v Satyajit Das>they want to be consensus driven

1126
00:54:09.060 --> 00:54:10.180
<v Satyajit Das>and all those sorts of things

1127
00:54:10.180 --> 00:54:12.560
<v Satyajit Das>and they have the most shambolic political system

1128
00:54:12.560 --> 00:54:13.900
<v Satyajit Das>other than the Italians

1129
00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:16.740
<v Satyajit Das>but the Italians are more entertaining than the Japanese

1130
00:54:16.740 --> 00:54:18.100
<v Satyajit Das>that's the only thing I would say

1131
00:54:18.100 --> 00:54:19.040
<v Satyajit Das>but basically

1132
00:54:19.600 --> 00:54:22.100
<v Satyajit Das>if you abstract away those types of things

1133
00:54:22.100 --> 00:54:23.240
<v Satyajit Das>they also have some huge advantages

1134
00:54:23.240 --> 00:54:24.800
<v Satyajit Das>they have very large savings in Japan

1135
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:26.920
<v Satyajit Das>which could be mobilized to save the system

1136
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:27.660
<v Satyajit Das>so

1137
00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:29.940
<v Satyajit Das>I think this process takes a number of years

1138
00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:32.680
<v Satyajit Das>it's not going to be over in a matter of months

1139
00:54:32.680 --> 00:54:34.840
<v Satyajit Das>I have no idea how long it's going to take

1140
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:36.660
<v Satyajit Das>second question

1141
00:54:36.660 --> 00:54:38.840
<v Satyajit Das>I think the second question was on

1142
00:54:39.340 --> 00:54:41.940
<v Satyajit Das>I answered the third question because I've forgotten your second question

1143
00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:43.020
<v Satyajit Das>the people's bank

1144
00:54:43.020 --> 00:54:44.640
<v Satyajit Das>again goes back to my idea

1145
00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:46.200
<v Satyajit Das>I don't think we need more banks

1146
00:54:46.200 --> 00:54:48.980
<v Satyajit Das>but I think we need to understand that there are two types of banks

1147
00:54:48.980 --> 00:54:51.700
<v Satyajit Das>a bank which looks more like an electricity company or utility

1148
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.720
<v Satyajit Das>and essentially it just functions taking deposits

1149
00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:56.780
<v Satyajit Das>which is a safe haven for your savings

1150
00:54:56.780 --> 00:54:57.980
<v Satyajit Das>and then lends it out

1151
00:54:57.980 --> 00:55:00.000
<v Satyajit Das>and there is another which is casino banking

1152
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:00.780
<v Satyajit Das>which is fine

1153
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:02.120
<v Satyajit Das>they're completely separate things

1154
00:55:02.120 --> 00:55:03.540
<v Satyajit Das>and we need to separate the two out

1155
00:55:03.540 --> 00:55:06.320
<v Satyajit Das>and as a bank you can select into one and out of the other

1156
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:07.240
<v Satyajit Das>or vice versa

1157
00:55:07.240 --> 00:55:08.080
<v Satyajit Das>you have to do that

1158
00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:09.700
<v Satyajit Das>and I think that would be a better way of solving

1159
00:55:09.700 --> 00:55:11.260
<v Satyajit Das>than just creating another infrastructure

1160
00:55:11.780 --> 00:55:12.740
<v Satyajit Das>Australia is a small country

1161
00:55:12.740 --> 00:55:15.240
<v Satyajit Das>four banks is by far too many banks in Australia

1162
00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:16.760
<v Satyajit Das>if you look at the economies of scale

1163
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:18.480
<v Satyajit Das>so I'm not greatly in favor

1164
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:19.360
<v Satyajit Das>besides which

1165
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:21.940
<v Satyajit Das>one thing I know is adding another bank

1166
00:55:21.940 --> 00:55:23.280
<v Satyajit Das>will add another infrastructure

1167
00:55:23.980 --> 00:55:25.520
<v Satyajit Das>you know a massive amount of infrastructure

1168
00:55:25.520 --> 00:55:26.600
<v Satyajit Das>and duplication

1169
00:55:26.600 --> 00:55:29.040
<v Satyajit Das>and we'll get another government department looking after it

1170
00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:30.260
<v Satyajit Das>which I don't think is a good idea

1171
00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:32.200
<v Satyajit Das>and the second question

1172
00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:34.600
<v Satyajit Das>I'm starting to suffer from my senior status here

1173
00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:35.700
<v Satyajit Das>what was the second question

1174
00:55:35.700 --> 00:55:36.940
<v Satyajit Das>if you just remind me with a keyword

1175
00:55:36.940 --> 00:55:37.820
<v Phillip Adams>we're going to wind it up

1176
00:55:37.820 --> 00:55:38.320
<v Phillip Adams>sorry

1177
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:39.500
<v Phillip Adams>we're going to wind it up

1178
00:55:39.500 --> 00:55:40.840
<v Satyajit Das>what was the second question

1179
00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:43.380
<v Satyajit Das>oh I just think

1180
00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:45.720
<v Satyajit Das>I have a very simple idea in life

1181
00:55:45.720 --> 00:55:47.120
<v Satyajit Das>I think there's three things in investment

1182
00:55:47.120 --> 00:55:48.500
<v Satyajit Das>one is capital security

1183
00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:49.300
<v Satyajit Das>two is income

1184
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:50.260
<v Satyajit Das>third is capital gain

1185
00:55:50.260 --> 00:55:51.880
<v Satyajit Das>most people do it in the other order

1186
00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:52.880
<v Satyajit Das>I do it in that way

1187
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:54.900
<v Satyajit Das>so anything where my money is still there tomorrow

1188
00:55:54.900 --> 00:55:55.500
<v Satyajit Das>is a good idea

1189
00:55:55.520 --> 00:55:56.500
<v Satyajit Das>going forward

1190
00:55:56.500 --> 00:55:58.080
<v Satyajit Das>and particularly if we get deflation

1191
00:55:58.080 --> 00:55:59.320
<v Satyajit Das>your money will buy more anyway

1192
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:01.020
<v Satyajit Das>so I don't think I'd worry about that

1193
00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:01.700
<v Satyajit Das>just for the moment

1194
00:56:01.700 --> 00:56:03.780
<v Satyajit Das>one last question then we'll have to go

1195
00:56:04.460 --> 00:56:06.380
<v Speaker 5>in your closing slide

1196
00:56:06.380 --> 00:56:09.660
<v Speaker 5>you included reduced growth

1197
00:56:09.660 --> 00:56:12.100
<v Speaker 5>as one of the prescriptions

1198
00:56:12.720 --> 00:56:14.020
<v Speaker 5>my question is

1199
00:56:15.120 --> 00:56:18.240
<v Speaker 5>given that in the real world

1200
00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:20.960
<v Speaker 5>we are consuming more than

1201
00:56:22.460 --> 00:56:23.840
<v Speaker 5>is actually possible

1202
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.640
<v Speaker 5>why would one look to continued growth

1203
00:56:27.640 --> 00:56:29.800
<v Speaker 5>at however low a level

1204
00:56:30.660 --> 00:56:31.880
<v Satyajit Das>that's a possible scenario

1205
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:34.060
<v Satyajit Das>Japan hasn't grown for 20 years pretty much

1206
00:56:34.060 --> 00:56:35.140
<v Satyajit Das>and that's also possible

1207
00:56:35.140 --> 00:56:36.700
<v Satyajit Das>I was just being gentle

1208
00:56:36.700 --> 00:56:38.880
<v Satyajit Das>I was just being gentle

1209
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:40.840
<v Satyajit Das>last question

1210
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:41.820
<v Phillip Adams>no no no sorry

1211
00:56:41.820 --> 00:56:42.900
<v Phillip Adams>we have to wind it up

1212
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:43.720
<v Phillip Adams>ladies and gentlemen

1213
00:56:43.720 --> 00:56:44.320
<v Phillip Adams>DAS

1214
00:56:47.380 --> 00:56:47.940
<v Phillip Adams>done

1215
00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:57.320
<v Phillip Adams>another

1216
00:56:57.840 --> 00:56:59.480
<v Phillip Adams>another rarely endowed

1217
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.360
<v Phillip Adams>10 out of 10 and a koala stamp

1218
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:04.420
<v Phillip Adams>our next session is on the origins of life

1219
00:57:04.420 --> 00:57:05.820
<v Phillip Adams>and the evolution of intelligence

1220
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:09.200
<v Phillip Adams>we're going to flood Elders Hall with primal ooze

1221
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:11.860
<v Phillip Adams>so we need you to leave I'm afraid

1222
00:57:11.860 --> 00:57:13.960
<v Phillip Adams>and to come back in 15 minutes

1223
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:14.840
<v Phillip Adams>thank you very much

