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<v Lynda Burns>Welcome to Philosophy in the Antipodes. I'm Linda Burns and I work in the History of Philosophy

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<v Lynda Burns>Project at Monash University in Melbourne. Our speakers in this session are Professor Karen

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<v Lynda Burns>Green from Monash who will tell us about women in philosophy in Australia and Professor Chris

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<v Lynda Burns>Mortenson from Adelaide University who's going to tell us about the history of philosophy

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<v Lynda Burns>in this city. Both have made very large contributions to the topics which they will discuss in just

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<v Lynda Burns>20 minutes each so I'm not going to take out too much of their time by saying anything

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<v Lynda Burns>very much about those contributions except to say Karen has authored a book on women

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<v Lynda Burns>and reason which identifies cultural constraints on women as thinkers and she's going to tell

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<v Lynda Burns>us how women in Australia have pushed beyond those limits.

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<v Lynda Burns>Chris has pioneered work in new areas of logic and he's one of the reasons why Adelaide

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<v Lynda Burns>has the place it does in the international world of ideas. So I'll now hand you over

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<v Lynda Burns>to the speakers. First Chris Mortenson.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I'll have this one, thanks.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Thank you Linda. Okay, let's start with a little question and answer session. Hands

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<v Chris Mortensen>up. Which of you think of yourself as a philosopher? Hands up. Bit of a philosopher, maybe a

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<v Chris Mortensen>lot of a philosopher. Okay. Which of you are interested in philosophy? Keep your hands

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<v Chris Mortensen>up. Which of you are interested in philosophy? That's as I thought. Philosophy is pretty

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<v Chris Mortensen>much universal. Philosophy is natural. Everyone thinks about it. Well of course I can't talk

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<v Chris Mortensen>about everyone here so I'll restrict myself to talking only about people who are interested.

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<v Chris Mortensen>People who have held down jobs as professional philosophers in philosophy departments in

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<v Chris Mortensen>South Australian universities. Not even all of them really can I talk about. I'll restrict

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<v Chris Mortensen>myself to the highlights only. So I'm here to tell you of the brilliant contributions

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<v Chris Mortensen>that Adelaide has made to world philosophy and here we go.

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<v Chris Mortensen>So in the book, I'm going to talk about the first two things that Adelaide has done. The

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<v Chris Mortensen>first thing that Adelaide has done is to set up a chair for the University of Adelaide.

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<v Chris Mortensen>And the chair that he set up in the beginning was Walter Watson Hughes, Copper Baron. He

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<v Chris Mortensen>was instrumental in setting up the University of Adelaide which began in 1874, the third

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<v Chris Mortensen>university in Australia. He donated 20,000 pounds to set up a chair in English language

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<v Chris Mortensen>and literature and mental and moral philosophy. Just in passing in the late 1990s, I discovered

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<v Chris Mortensen>a university budget line called the Hughes Chair in Philosophy. And it was a very good

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<v Chris Mortensen>university. Containing $40,000, apparently forgotten. One wonders whether if the money

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<v Chris Mortensen>had been invested properly in the 1870s, the Adelaide philosophy department would now be

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<v Chris Mortensen>the owner of a substantial fraction of the Adelaide CBD. The first person to hold down

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<v Chris Mortensen>that chair was the Reverend John Davidson of the Church of Scotland. It seems he taught

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<v Chris Mortensen>Aristotelian logic.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The second was a classicist, Edward Vaughan Bulger. He was dismissed for drunkenness.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The third was the first real philosopher, William Mitchell, who arrived in 1894. Mitchell

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<v Chris Mortensen>was Hughes Professor of Philosophy from 1894 to 1922, Vice-Chancellor, unpaid, from 1916

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<v Chris Mortensen>to 1944.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He turned the early institution into a university. He was a professor of philosophy, and he was

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<v Chris Mortensen>an eminent Buddhist

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<v Chris Mortensen>you what philosophy has contributed to the world, then among the many things that spring

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<v Chris Mortensen>to your mind, you could say philosophers started the world's first universities, Plato's Academy

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<v Chris Mortensen>and Aristotle's Lyceum.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Mitchell built one.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Now as a philosopher, Mitchell's main work is The Structure and Growth of the Mind, 1907.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This was well received in Britain.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It is, however, virtually unreadable.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It's a model to young philosophers of how not to write.

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<v Chris Mortensen>His writing contains a forbidding technical vocabulary and is almost entirely innocent

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<v Chris Mortensen>of logical signposting.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Still, when unpacked, it's interesting enough.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In a recent book, Marty Davies makes out a good case for Mitchell as an early philosophical

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<v Chris Mortensen>psychologist.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He was an early psychologist, interested in mental categories and particularly from a

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<v Chris Mortensen>developmental point of view.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In this respect, he was anticipating the flowering in South Australia of the scientific side

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<v Chris Mortensen>of philosophy, which flourished spectacularly later under Jack Smart.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Mitchell was succeeded by the first Australian, MacKellar Stewart, Hughes Professor from 1924

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<v Chris Mortensen>to 1950 and Vice-Chancellor from 1945 to 1925.

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<v Chris Mortensen>His philosophical interests were continental.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He wrote a critical exposition of Bergson's philosophy, 1913, and then later he wrote

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<v Chris Mortensen>on Nietzsche.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In 1950, a youthful 30-year-old Scott, Jack Smart, arrived to take up the Hughes chair.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Jack represents Australia's biggest contribution to world philosophy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He was substantially responsible for teaching the students of the New York Times, the New

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<v Chris Mortensen>York Times, and

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<v Chris Mortensen>London.

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<v Chris Mortensen>There was no study

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<v Chris Mortensen>the physical body. If this should seem initially absurd to you, reflect that most people have been

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<v Chris Mortensen>dualists, certainly all those who believe that the personality transcends the physical death

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<v Chris Mortensen>of the body. Moreover, dualism is independently supported by solid arguments. I'm not going to

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<v Chris Mortensen>go into them, don't have time. On the face of it, but look at it this way, your mind, particularly

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<v Chris Mortensen>your conscious mind, seems to be of an entirely different character to your body or your brain.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The other going theory of mind in the 1950s was behaviourism. That was inspired by the

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<v Chris Mortensen>positivist psychology of Watson and Skinner and the philosophy of Wittgenstein and Ryle.

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<v Chris Mortensen>And the idea was that it was unscientific to speculate, indeed worse, meaningless to talk about,

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<v Chris Mortensen>in a private state, private to a single individual, such as pains, thoughts and wishes are generally

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<v Chris Mortensen>held to be. We do attribute mental states to other people, said the behaviourists, but in so doing,

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<v Chris Mortensen>we are simply describing their propensities to various behaviours. Language is inevitably social,

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<v Chris Mortensen>Wittgenstein said, and thus its subject matter is also public.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Now Smart and his co-worker Olin Place from the new psychology department could accept neither

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<v Chris Mortensen>dualism nor behaviourism. They replaced them with the identity theory of mind. This agreed with

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<v Chris Mortensen>dualism that the mind has significantly inner aspects, your pain is yours alone, but disagreed

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<v Chris Mortensen>with the dualists that these states were non-physical.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Their view agreed with behaviourism that the mind is material like the body,

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<v Chris Mortensen>but disagreed with the idea that the mind is nothing but outer behaviour.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Finally, Smart and Place defended their view with a new set of arguments that represented a sea

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<v Chris Mortensen>change in philosophical methodology. The going conception of methodology was that philosophy

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<v Chris Mortensen>is conducted by conceptualism.

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<v Chris Mortensen>So for example, questions like what is the mind or what is a belief or a desire or a pain

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<v Chris Mortensen>are to be answered according to the going paradigm at the time by an investigation of the concept of

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<v Chris Mortensen>mind, or more exactly, of the meaning of mental words in ordinary contexts, so-called ordinary

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<v Chris Mortensen>language philosophy. Philosophy was seen as a second-order activity arising from a

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<v Chris Mortensen>confusion over ordinary common sense language that we all use. When we get our ordinary language

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<v Chris Mortensen>straight by philosophical analysis, then philosophical puzzlement will drop away.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Wittgenstein was prominent in this conception of philosophy as therapy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Now both dualists and behaviourists relied on variants of this method to further their various

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<v Chris Mortensen>conclusions.

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<v Chris Mortensen>But Smart repudiated the idea that philosophy is a therapy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He refuted this understanding of philosophical method.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Instead, he proposed that it might be a scientific discovery that mental states are states of the brain.

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<v Chris Mortensen>His favourite analogies of how the proposed reduction of the mind was to take place were

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<v Chris Mortensen>such things as the morning star is the evening star, clouds are collections of water droplets,

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<v Chris Mortensen>genes are DNA.

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<v Chris Mortensen>None of these were discovered by conceptual analysis alone.

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<v Chris Mortensen>But by serious scientific work.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This position on the language of philosophical theory was typical of Smart's other revolution, scientific realism.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Here, Smart's view was similar to that of the American W. V. Quine.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Philosophy is seen as strongly continuous with science, and language is not restricted to common discourse,

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<v Chris Mortensen>but is dynamic and driven by scientific discovery.

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<v Chris Mortensen>So, what is the scientific theory?

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<v Chris Mortensen>For example, 105 years ago, the meaningfulness of beliefs about what is happening now in another place

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<v Chris Mortensen>was enshrined in ordinary language and belief.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Indeed, we even still talk like that today.

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<v Chris Mortensen>We say, even as we speak, referring to something over there.

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<v Chris Mortensen>But the success of Einstein's theories made it clear that there's no absolute now except for right here.

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<v Chris Mortensen>There's no absolute now over there.

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<v Chris Mortensen>There's no absolute now over there.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It depends on the observer.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Language must change with science.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Furthermore, what there is, that is what exists, is to be discovered by science,

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<v Chris Mortensen>or better, really by scientifically minded philosophers,

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<v Chris Mortensen>who are alert to refined ways of simplifying scientific theories and the commitments that these bring with them.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Or at least, indeed, more alert than the specialist scientists who originated these theories.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Philosophy does have a job to do, in other words.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In short, philosophy and science are hand in glove with one another,

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<v Chris Mortensen>as indeed they have been since Aristotle, at least.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Ordinary language conceptual analysis is at best a first step, useful for purposes of clarification,

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<v Chris Mortensen>but hardly a straitjacket to constrain philosophical inquiry.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Needless to say, scientific realism also strongly favours the natural.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The supernatural.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Smart's book Philosophy and Scientific Realism, 1962, became a classic.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Both the identity theory and scientific realism swept the world.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The identity theory of mine in particular spawned a thousand variants

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<v Chris Mortensen>as the world's philosophers worked through some of the more tricky and less believable consequences of his position.

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<v Chris Mortensen>But it must be said that these days,

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<v Chris Mortensen>textbooks on the philosophy of mind all contain an early section explaining Smart's and Place's views.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The legacy of scientific realism is everywhere too,

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<v Chris Mortensen>in the strong emphasis on the continuity of science that characterised much late 20th century philosophy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The relationship has not always been smooth, of course.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Smart also wrote a well-received monograph defending act-utility,

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<v Chris Mortensen>and the

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<v Chris Mortensen>The

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<v Chris Mortensen>!

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<v Chris Mortensen>fundamentally

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<v Chris Mortensen>!

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<v Chris Mortensen>!

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<v Chris Mortensen>fundamentally

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<v Chris Mortensen>is very much a

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<v Chris Mortensen>is very much a

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<v Chris Mortensen>Peter Singer and Garrett Cullity will agree. Smart's little book, like all his writings,

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<v Chris Mortensen>is brilliantly clear and deceptively simple. You might not agree, but you have to respect

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<v Chris Mortensen>the force of the position. Smart had a small department in the 1950s, but a brilliant one.

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<v Chris Mortensen>As Charlie Martin, a fearsome critic of Smart, was also present. Together they produced a

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<v Chris Mortensen>shower of superb students, who all went off to Oxford and then came back to chairs in

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<v Chris Mortensen>Australia. Ellis, Nirlik, Medlin, Deutscher. Influential were also Bradley and Hinkfess.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Other staff present from the 1960s to the 1990s included Hughes, Chandler and Gill.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Smart left in 1972, to be succeeded in 1974 by his former student, Graeme Nirlik,

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<v Chris Mortensen>who came from...

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<v Chris Mortensen>a chair at Sydney.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Nerlich was much influenced by

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<v Chris Mortensen>scientific realism. His

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<v Chris Mortensen>main contribution has been to work

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<v Chris Mortensen>through the various confusions about

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<v Chris Mortensen>the theory of relativity made by

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<v Chris Mortensen>famous scientists and others.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Developing an argument

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<v Chris Mortensen>of currency, he argued in his book

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<v Chris Mortensen>The Shape of Space, 1976

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<v Chris Mortensen>that space is a real

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<v Chris Mortensen>material thing, just as real

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<v Chris Mortensen>as the objects in it.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This has been a contentious

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<v Chris Mortensen>issue ever since the 17th

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<v Chris Mortensen>century when Leibniz

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<v Chris Mortensen>and Newton disagreed

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<v Chris Mortensen>over it, Leibniz holding

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<v Chris Mortensen>against Newton that space

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<v Chris Mortensen>is not an independent entity

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<v Chris Mortensen>but no more than an order

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<v Chris Mortensen>of relations between bodies.

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<v Chris Mortensen>To give you the

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<v Chris Mortensen>flavour of this dispute, consider the following

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<v Chris Mortensen>question. What's between my hands

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<v Chris Mortensen>now?

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well, you might think that there's air between my

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<v Chris Mortensen>hands now, so put my

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<v Chris Mortensen>hands in a vacuum and ask the same question

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<v Chris Mortensen>again. What's between my hands now?

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well, if you say

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<v Chris Mortensen>there's nothing between my hands

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<v Chris Mortensen>now, then what's the

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<v Chris Mortensen>difference between that and this?

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<v Chris Mortensen>That's

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<v Chris Mortensen>nothing between my

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<v Chris Mortensen>hands now. This

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<v Chris Mortensen>is something between

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<v Chris Mortensen>my hands now. Empty space.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Empty space, therefore

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<v Speaker 3>being real.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Now, that's a very quick

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<v Chris Mortensen>and dirty argument and

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<v Chris Mortensen>it's the beginning of a huge amount of

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<v Chris Mortensen>argumentation. I don't pretend that it's any

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<v Chris Mortensen>more than a first step.

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<v Chris Mortensen>But if you want a model

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<v Chris Mortensen>of how to write the philosophy

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<v Chris Mortensen>of physics in such a way

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<v Chris Mortensen>as to make its conclusions

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<v Chris Mortensen>belief-worthy, read

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<v Chris Mortensen>Nerlick's book and

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<v Chris Mortensen>don't bother with those books

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<v Chris Mortensen>on pop physics written

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<v Chris Mortensen>by famous overseas

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<v Chris Mortensen>physicists who shall remain

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<v Chris Mortensen>nameless here.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Nerlick

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<v Chris Mortensen>also wrote a book on ethics.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Arguing in characteristic scientific

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<v Chris Mortensen>realist fashion that it should be naturalised

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<v Chris Mortensen>by grounding it

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<v Chris Mortensen>in the beliefs and desires of

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<v Chris Mortensen>natural and social creatures such as

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<v Chris Mortensen>ourselves.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Now, one thing not mentioned

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<v Chris Mortensen>so far is logic.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Philosophy has

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<v Chris Mortensen>been hand-in-glove with logic

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<v Chris Mortensen>since Aristotle also.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Scientific realism did not

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<v Chris Mortensen>shirk from using modern symbolic

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<v Chris Mortensen>logic deriving from

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<v Chris Mortensen>Frege, 1879.

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<v Chris Mortensen>At this point

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<v Chris Mortensen>I want to briefly mention my own work.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Australia is also

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<v Chris Mortensen>well known internationally for

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<v Chris Mortensen>its contributions to logic, particularly

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<v Chris Mortensen>the theory of

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<v Chris Mortensen>inconsistency.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Humans show a

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<v Chris Mortensen>capacity to tolerate

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<v Chris Mortensen>contradictions in their beliefs

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<v Chris Mortensen>without having their reasoning

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<v Chris Mortensen>collapse. This is

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<v Chris Mortensen>not something that Aristotle or

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<v Chris Mortensen>Frege took into account

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<v Chris Mortensen>but it is important.

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<v Chris Mortensen>For example, there are logical

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<v Chris Mortensen>puzzles such as the liar paradox.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The liar paradox is this sentence

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<v Chris Mortensen>is false.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Think about that. If it's true

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<v Chris Mortensen>then it's false and if it's false

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<v Chris Mortensen>then it's true. So it's both

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<v Chris Mortensen>true and false, a real

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<v Chris Mortensen>live true contradiction.

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<v Chris Mortensen>If this

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<v Chris Mortensen>sounds like trivial logic chopping to

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<v Chris Mortensen>you, reflect that it isn't easy

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<v Chris Mortensen>to say how to fix it

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<v Chris Mortensen>up. And it turns

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<v Chris Mortensen>out to have

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<v Chris Mortensen>profound consequences for our theories

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<v Chris Mortensen>of language and logic.

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<v Chris Mortensen>A few years ago I wrote a book called

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<v Chris Mortensen>Inconsistent Mathematics, 1995,

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<v Chris Mortensen>which proposed to start a new mathematics

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<v Chris Mortensen>which tolerates contradictions

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<v Chris Mortensen>and demonstrates that rigorous

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<v Chris Mortensen>rational structure does not collapse

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<v Chris Mortensen>in their presence.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I've lately been interested in the visual paradoxes

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<v Chris Mortensen>such as those to be found in

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<v Chris Mortensen>M.C. Escher,

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<v Chris Mortensen>endeavoring to find mathematical representations

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<v Chris Mortensen>for these using the tools of

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<v Chris Mortensen>inconsistent mathematics.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I remain a scientific realist

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<v Chris Mortensen>and an identity theorist, but it seems

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<v Chris Mortensen>to me that these can be reconciled with Buddhism

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<v Chris Mortensen>properly understood. Analytical Buddhism

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<v Chris Mortensen>is on the rise in this country too.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well, Nalik left in 1994.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Over the next five years, there were two

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<v Chris Mortensen>concerted attempts to destroy the philosophy department.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I should say, that the

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<v Chris Mortensen>Buddhist

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<v Chris Mortensen>had recommended that the philosophy department be merged with the anthropology department

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<v Chris Mortensen>and, quote, as philosophers retire, they shall be replaced by social theorists, unquote.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I pointed out that the faculty had social theorists coming out of its ears and what

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<v Chris Mortensen>they really needed was a bit of metaphysics as a balance, but this, I'm afraid, fell on

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<v Chris Mortensen>ears that were very deaf indeed.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This led to a very stressful six months.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Several senior Australian philosophers wrote in support of the department to the vice-chancellor.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In the end, the tactic that worked was a simple refusal to collaborate.

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<v Chris Mortensen>That's an underused tactic, by the way.

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<v Chris Mortensen>You could all think about it instead of just going along with the pressures.

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<v Chris Mortensen>You could simply refuse sometimes.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It's at least to be recommended a bit.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Okay, well, the Hughes Chair was vacant until 1998 when I was promoted.

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<v Chris Mortensen>In 2000, another cadre of senior arts academics recommended a drastic cut in philosophy's

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<v Chris Mortensen>undergraduate offerings.

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<v Chris Mortensen>You can see how this leads to a downward spiral of students and therefore staff.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Yes, very threatening indeed.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Another stressful year.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This time, the problem was resolved by means of an agreement.

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<v Chris Mortensen>A new agreement for several senior staff near retirement to retire and be replaced by

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<v Chris Mortensen>tenured young philosophers.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Memo to administrators.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Academics are typically motivated by a love of their discipline and not typically motivated

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<v Chris Mortensen>by fear and threats.

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<v Chris Mortensen>This generational renewal was made possible by the generosity of spirit of the senior

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<v Chris Mortensen>staff present at the time and they are to be thanked for it.

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<v Chris Mortensen>All in place died in England in the year 2000.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Remember him from Place and Smart.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He bequeathed his brain to the Adelaide Philosophy Department to be displayed with the caption,

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<v Chris Mortensen>did this brain contain the consciousness of UT Place?

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<v Chris Mortensen>This is reminiscent of Jeremy Bentham's gift to the University of London.

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<v Chris Mortensen>You'll all know that Jeremy Bentham had himself, when he died in the United States, he had

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<v Chris Mortensen>himself stuffed and mounted at the University of London to aid their council in its deliberations.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It's true.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Only recently moved.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well I think that Place's brain is as good as Bentham's.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It's an instructive piece of philosophy and a fine piece of dark humour.

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<v Chris Mortensen>A worthy afterthought on his importance to Adelaide and Australian philosophy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It's a good thing.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It resides in the anatomy museum right over there and you can see it on the department's

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<v Chris Mortensen>website.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Have a look at the website and while you're at it, look at the impossible pictures that

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<v Chris Mortensen>people working on my own project have been drawing.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I hope you find that entertaining.

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<v Chris Mortensen>What's the new generation department like now?

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<v Chris Mortensen>The short answer, mostly philosophy of mind and ethics.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Mortenson retired in 2005.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Garrett Cullity had published his book The Moral Demands of Affluence in 2004.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The book sets up the extreme demand on the relatively affluent, roughly that one should

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<v Chris Mortensen>give away everything to the poor and suffering until the sacrifice outweighs the good that

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<v Chris Mortensen>it does.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well while acknowledging the strength of the case for the extreme demand and the weakness

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<v Chris Mortensen>of arguments against it, Cullity nevertheless concludes that it ultimately does.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Cullity was promoted to Hughes Professor in 2006.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Gerard O'Brien was also made Professor in 2007.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The current strengths of the renewed department are cognitive science and the philosophy of

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<v Chris Mortensen>mind, that's O'Brien, Gerens, Opie, Fernandez.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Ethics, Cullity, Gamble and Louise and aesthetics, McMahon.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Adelaide has been strong on the philosophy of mind.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The philosophy of mind ever since SMART and the major presence of cognitive science can

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<v Chris Mortensen>be regarded as the triumph of the naturalising program started by SMART and PLACE so many

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<v Chris Mortensen>years before.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The strength in ethics also represents the continuation of an Adelaide tradition in which

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<v Chris Mortensen>SMART and Nerlich made notable contributions.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well, finally, a word about philosophers at other universities.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Flinders started in 1966 and Brian Medlin was its foundation professor of philosophy.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Brian was one of my first teachers at the University of Queensland.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I had two inspiring philosophy teachers, Brian and Don Madison, as different as chalk and cheese.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Medlin, tall, dark and Mephistophelian.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Madison, short, bald, feisty, American West Coast.

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<v Chris Mortensen>They were good mates but in the seminars the sparks flew.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It was a wonderful experience for an undergraduate.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Medlin got the identity theory and scientific realism from SMART and I got them from Medlin.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Madison made me read Wittgenstein, forwards, backwards and sideways.

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<v Chris Mortensen>It is a shame, I think, that students are not made to read Wittgenstein much anymore.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Medlin published several important books.

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<v Chris Mortensen>He wrote important papers defending the identity theory from various objections.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Both Medlin and Madison took their students seriously, listening to what we had to say before stomping on us.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I'm grateful for the experience.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Other prominent people at Flinders have been O'Hare, Hunt, Allen and Burns.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Sadly, Flinders' administration has let the numbers of philosophy teachers drop.

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<v Chris Mortensen>A great shame for a department that has contained several first-rate thinkers and produced some fine students.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Finally, there's the University of South Australia.

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<v Chris Mortensen>There was a period in the early 1990s when there were enough good philosophers there to form a critical mass.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Unfortunately, the administration at the time was not well disposed towards philosophy and numbers have dropped off.

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<v Chris Mortensen>The main people have been Peter Woolcock, Sue Knight and Peter Laskis.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Well, so much for my story.

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<v Chris Mortensen>I hope you found it entertaining and instructive.

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<v Chris Mortensen>South Australia's contributions to world philosophy have been very significant indeed and widely recognised as such.

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<v Chris Mortensen>South Australian philosophers have been major players on the world stage.

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<v Chris Mortensen>Thank you.

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<v Karen Green>So, you will have noticed that there weren't very many women in that story.

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<v Karen Green>And alas, philosophy is a very male-dominated discipline.

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<v Karen Green>If I asked you to name any philosophers you might come up with,

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<v Karen Green>people such as Socrates, Plato, Aristotle,

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<v Karen Green>Aquinas, Augustine,

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<v Karen Green>perhaps you know about Descartes, Locke, Hume.

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<v Karen Green>And maybe, if you get to the 20th century,

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<v Karen Green>you could name people like Anscombe, Philippa Foot, Mary Warnock, Simone de Beauvoir, perhaps Hannah Arendt.

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<v Karen Green>In Australia, the situation is almost worse.

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<v Karen Green>Well, at least historically, it was almost worse than in other places.

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<v Karen Green>When I started to do the research for this little sketch, if you like, of a history of women in Australian philosophy,

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<v Karen Green>I asked Jack Smart about women in the profession.

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<v Karen Green>And he said, oh, women.

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<v Karen Green>Well, there weren't any who were really any good.

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<v Karen Green>LAUGHTER

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<v Karen Green>And then he said, oh, no, of course, Dorothy Mitchell.

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<v Karen Green>She taught Greek at La Trobe.

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<v Karen Green>You know, when the cleaning ladies were on strike,

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<v Karen Green>they were so impressed that she had Greek books that they kept on cleaning her room.

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<v Karen Green>LAUGHTER

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<v Karen Green>So, for Jack, who is a delight, I must say,

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<v Karen Green>um,

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<v Karen Green>his memory of Dorothy is really as somebody who reminds him of a Greek cleaning lady.

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<v Karen Green>LAUGHTER

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<v Karen Green>So, I think, or I have divided up the history of women in philosophy in Australia

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<v Karen Green>into three periods.

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<v Karen Green>Distant shadows of women

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<v Karen Green>about whom we know very little.

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<v Karen Green>Then a period from the 50s until the 70s

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<v Karen Green>where there were a few women,

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<v Karen Green>but it was basically a male-dominated profession.

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<v Karen Green>And the period from the 70s of a feminist upsurge,

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<v Karen Green>which has led to most of the people

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<v Karen Green>who are known as important female Australian philosophers.

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<v Karen Green>I'm not going to talk at all in this talk

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<v Karen Green>about other women who you might think of

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<v Karen Green>as very important in philosophy in Australia.

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<v Karen Green>People like Germaine Greer or Carol Pateman

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<v Karen Green>who don't quite belong to philosophy.

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<v Karen Green>This is, although they're important in many ways,

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<v Karen Green>this is about women in academic philosophy in Australia.

422
00:30:30.520 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Karen Green>So,

423
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.040
<v Karen Green>the distant shadows.

424
00:30:34.780 --> 00:30:39.500
<v Karen Green>And Chris didn't point out,

425
00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:41.420
<v Karen Green>and I don't think he knew,

426
00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:46.820
<v Karen Green>that the very first woman to have a position

427
00:30:46.820 --> 00:30:50.680
<v Karen Green>in a philosophy department in Australia

428
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.260
<v Karen Green>was Sarah Jackson,

429
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.860
<v Karen Green>who taught philosophy, she was a tutor,

430
00:30:58.460 --> 00:31:00.160
<v Karen Green>between 1919 and,

431
00:31:01.180 --> 00:31:01.800
<v Karen Green>1922.

432
00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:06.580
<v Karen Green>She had won the Lorenzo Prize for Philosophy.

433
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.740
<v Karen Green>Unfortunately, she was suffering from a lingering illness

434
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:12.620
<v Karen Green>and she died.

435
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.040
<v Karen Green>She left to the Women's College

436
00:31:16.040 --> 00:31:18.200
<v Karen Green>a subscription to Punch.

437
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.280
<v Karen Green>Other than that, it's rather hard to find out a lot about her,

438
00:31:23.380 --> 00:31:25.900
<v Karen Green>though there is an archive in the archives

439
00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:27.800
<v Karen Green>which tells you a little bit more.

440
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Karen Green>So,

441
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.840
<v Karen Green>these are some other women

442
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.560
<v Karen Green>who had positions in Australian philosophy early on.

443
00:31:39.300 --> 00:31:43.140
<v Karen Green>James Franklin, who's written a book about the history of philosophy,

444
00:31:43.380 --> 00:31:46.660
<v Karen Green>claims that the first woman to have a lectureship

445
00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:47.880
<v Karen Green>in Australian philosophy

446
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:49.980
<v Karen Green>was Alice Ruth Walker,

447
00:31:50.180 --> 00:31:51.880
<v Karen Green>who was at the University of Sydney.

448
00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:53.520
<v Karen Green>But actually, he's wrong.

449
00:31:55.300 --> 00:32:00.160
<v Karen Green>The first woman to have a lectureship in philosophy was, in fact,

450
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:00.940
<v Karen Green>Isabel Flynn,

451
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.660
<v Karen Green>who got her MA from University of Melbourne in 1918

452
00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:09.580
<v Karen Green>and who taught for a very short time at the University of Queensland.

453
00:32:10.020 --> 00:32:13.960
<v Karen Green>The war period seems in some ways to have been

454
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:18.020
<v Karen Green>a heyday for women in academia in general.

455
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:20.880
<v Karen Green>In 1918,

456
00:32:22.100 --> 00:32:26.020
<v Karen Green>the year that both Olga Parker,

457
00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:27.080
<v Karen Green>who's on my list here,

458
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.320
<v Karen Green>and Isabel Flynn got their MAs,

459
00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:33.040
<v Karen Green>there were 17 MAs at Melbourne,

460
00:32:33.820 --> 00:32:35.340
<v Karen Green>and of those 17,

461
00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:36.460
<v Karen Green>nine were women.

462
00:32:37.100 --> 00:32:39.240
<v Karen Green>Whereas when you get to the 50s,

463
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:40.380
<v Karen Green>when they're 1950,

464
00:32:40.660 --> 00:32:41.960
<v Karen Green>there's also 17 MAs,

465
00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:43.380
<v Karen Green>but only two of them are women.

466
00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:46.860
<v Karen Green>Maybe that had something to do with the fact that the men were away at war.

467
00:32:50.740 --> 00:32:55.200
<v Karen Green>Vera Rosenblum didn't have a very long career.

468
00:32:55.520 --> 00:32:56.860
<v Karen Green>Olga Parker, however,

469
00:32:57.620 --> 00:32:59.300
<v Karen Green>was a tutor at Melbourne University

470
00:32:59.320 --> 00:33:00.240
<v Karen Green>for a very long time.

471
00:33:01.080 --> 00:33:06.300
<v Karen Green>Was employed first in 1920

472
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.800
<v Karen Green>and didn't retire until 1955.

473
00:33:13.320 --> 00:33:15.660
<v Karen Green>So these are people about whom we know very little

474
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:17.580
<v Karen Green>and very few of them published very much,

475
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:19.120
<v Karen Green>except for Ruth Walker,

476
00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:21.780
<v Karen Green>who can be found in some places,

477
00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:22.780
<v Karen Green>and Mary McCloskey,

478
00:33:24.800 --> 00:33:27.680
<v Karen Green>who worked at the University of Melbourne for a very long time.

479
00:33:30.320 --> 00:33:34.720
<v Karen Green>There are a couple of photos that I think capture

480
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.600
<v Karen Green>the situation in philosophy departments

481
00:33:38.860 --> 00:33:42.560
<v Karen Green>in the 50s and 60s in Australia.

482
00:33:43.360 --> 00:33:44.580
<v Karen Green>The Melbourne department,

483
00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:47.920
<v Karen Green>you see you have 11 men and two women.

484
00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:49.940
<v Karen Green>One of them is,

485
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:50.520
<v Karen Green>sorry,

486
00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:54.220
<v Karen Green>one of them is Olga Warren,

487
00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:57.620
<v Karen Green>and the other one is probably,

488
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.120
<v Karen Green>Mary McCloskey.

489
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.380
<v Karen Green>Actually, Franklin says it's somebody else,

490
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.080
<v Karen Green>Barbara Coates,

491
00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:05.900
<v Karen Green>but Mary McCloskey did actually have a tutorship

492
00:34:05.900 --> 00:34:09.160
<v Karen Green>in the Melbourne department for a short time in the 50s.

493
00:34:10.060 --> 00:34:11.020
<v Karen Green>At Sydney,

494
00:34:11.160 --> 00:34:14.560
<v Karen Green>you have Anderson and a lot of other people,

495
00:34:14.680 --> 00:34:16.460
<v Karen Green>and Ruth Walker,

496
00:34:16.640 --> 00:34:19.040
<v Karen Green>who taught for a long time at Sydney,

497
00:34:19.220 --> 00:34:20.620
<v Karen Green>and Barbara Roxon,

498
00:34:20.700 --> 00:34:24.600
<v Karen Green>who became a lecturer at New South Wales.

499
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:26.500
<v Karen Green>Ruth Walker,

500
00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:29.040
<v Karen Green>was actually Anderson's mistress.

501
00:34:29.580 --> 00:34:32.720
<v Karen Green>And Franklin says of this,

502
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Karen Green>this was a case of positive discrimination,

503
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:36.720
<v Karen Green>that she actually got a job.

504
00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:37.500
<v Karen Green>In fact,

505
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:40.240
<v Karen Green>I think this is one of the problems that has faced women

506
00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:42.580
<v Karen Green>within the philosophical profession.

507
00:34:43.660 --> 00:34:46.700
<v Karen Green>Philosophy often goes by patronage.

508
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:51.000
<v Karen Green>You have to make friends in some sense

509
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.660
<v Karen Green>with the reigning philosopher.

510
00:34:54.220 --> 00:34:55.500
<v Karen Green>If you're a woman,

511
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:57.180
<v Karen Green>and that becomes sexual,

512
00:34:57.380 --> 00:34:59.000
<v Karen Green>and you do get a position,

513
00:34:59.260 --> 00:35:01.040
<v Karen Green>then of course you didn't get the position

514
00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:02.920
<v Karen Green>because of your cleverness,

515
00:35:03.020 --> 00:35:04.400
<v Karen Green>you got it because of your sexuality.

516
00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:07.260
<v Karen Green>So if you don't become friends with a man,

517
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:08.440
<v Karen Green>then he doesn't notice you,

518
00:35:08.540 --> 00:35:09.740
<v Karen Green>and you don't get a job anyway.

519
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:11.240
<v Karen Green>It's a bit of a double bind.

520
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.640
<v Karen Green>Things went on more or less

521
00:35:21.540 --> 00:35:24.120
<v Karen Green>as you see at Sydney,

522
00:35:24.120 --> 00:35:26.800
<v Karen Green>as was evident in the last photo,

523
00:35:26.980 --> 00:35:28.620
<v Karen Green>at Sydney and Melbourne,

524
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:33.100
<v Karen Green>until the 70s when in Sydney,

525
00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:37.860
<v Karen Green>some of the women had had enough.

526
00:35:38.180 --> 00:35:39.120
<v Karen Green>In fact,

527
00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:43.140
<v Karen Green>even during the 60s in Sydney,

528
00:35:43.220 --> 00:35:46.620
<v Karen Green>a couple of women in the Anderson department

529
00:35:46.620 --> 00:35:48.160
<v Karen Green>who would become very important

530
00:35:48.160 --> 00:35:49.180
<v Karen Green>were being trained.

531
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:50.980
<v Karen Green>Genevieve Lloyd,

532
00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:53.820
<v Karen Green>who joined that department,

533
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:57.900
<v Karen Green>back in the 60s as a student,

534
00:35:58.040 --> 00:35:59.300
<v Karen Green>and Val Plumwood

535
00:36:02.060 --> 00:36:06.160
<v Karen Green>were perhaps starting to feel

536
00:36:06.160 --> 00:36:08.280
<v Karen Green>that something was not right in the profession.

537
00:36:10.120 --> 00:36:13.660
<v Karen Green>In the early 70s,

538
00:36:13.660 --> 00:36:15.480
<v Karen Green>that came to a head

539
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.200
<v Karen Green>with the proposal by a couple of young women,

540
00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:21.880
<v Karen Green>Liz Jacker and Jean Courtois,

541
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.480
<v Karen Green>that they should teach feminism.

542
00:36:25.540 --> 00:36:30.100
<v Karen Green>This was initially rejected by the University Council,

543
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.380
<v Karen Green>and this led to a strike,

544
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.240
<v Karen Green>which you can see here.

545
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.000
<v Karen Green>And ultimately the Council accepted

546
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.360
<v Karen Green>the teaching of a subject in feminism.

547
00:36:41.860 --> 00:36:46.440
<v Karen Green>This was a period of the Vietnam War,

548
00:36:46.660 --> 00:36:51.860
<v Karen Green>and a great deal of political dissatisfaction

549
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.320
<v Karen Green>or political arguments

550
00:36:57.880 --> 00:36:58.700
<v Karen Green>within the Sydney department.

551
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:04.020
<v Karen Green>The men wanted to put on Marxism,

552
00:37:04.020 --> 00:37:05.240
<v Karen Green>the women, feminism,

553
00:37:05.380 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Karen Green>and the Sydney department split.

554
00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:10.800
<v Karen Green>One half,

555
00:37:11.020 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Karen Green>which started to teach feminism and Marxism

556
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.100
<v Karen Green>and other kinds of radical theory,

557
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.300
<v Karen Green>became the general philosophy department.

558
00:37:18.600 --> 00:37:21.860
<v Karen Green>The other half became the department of traditionalism.

559
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:22.460
<v Karen Green>The other half became the department of traditionalism.

560
00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:27.100
<v Karen Green>Around about this time,

561
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.440
<v Karen Green>the women in the general department

562
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:36.060
<v Karen Green>became very influenced by continental philosophy.

563
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.740
<v Karen Green>And you got the rise of

564
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.560
<v Karen Green>a radical European-influenced feminism,

565
00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.760
<v Karen Green>which has really been one of the,

566
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.380
<v Karen Green>if you like, most successful strands

567
00:37:53.380 --> 00:37:58.100
<v Karen Green>for women within Australian philosophy.

568
00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Karen Green>At the time,

569
00:38:02.900 --> 00:38:06.040
<v Karen Green>I was a student in traditional and modern,

570
00:38:06.140 --> 00:38:07.280
<v Karen Green>or at least in the late 70s,

571
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:09.740
<v Karen Green>I was a student in traditional and modern.

572
00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:13.200
<v Karen Green>And in traditional and modern,

573
00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:18.480
<v Karen Green>one of the senior academics,

574
00:38:18.740 --> 00:38:19.780
<v Karen Green>David Stove,

575
00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:22.460
<v Karen Green>was refreshingly honest

576
00:38:22.460 --> 00:38:25.960
<v Karen Green>about the attitude that he took to women

577
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:28.900
<v Karen Green>and his conception of women's capacity

578
00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:31.380
<v Karen Green>for doing philosophy.

579
00:38:31.600 --> 00:38:32.860
<v Karen Green>In fact, in the 90s,

580
00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:35.680
<v Karen Green>he published a paper in the journal Philosophy,

581
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.480
<v Karen Green>arguing there is quite clear on empirical grounds

582
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.940
<v Karen Green>that women must be intellectually inferior

583
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:44.980
<v Karen Green>because you had such a long history

584
00:38:44.980 --> 00:38:46.820
<v Karen Green>of their not having done,

585
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.120
<v Karen Green>made any contributions to culture.

586
00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:57.200
<v Karen Green>In the wash-up,

587
00:38:57.220 --> 00:38:59.680
<v Karen Green>or the wash-up of the division

588
00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:02.720
<v Karen Green>between general philosophy and traditional and modern,

589
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:05.500
<v Karen Green>two young women were appointed

590
00:39:06.120 --> 00:39:10.580
<v Karen Green>to positions in general philosophy,

591
00:39:11.100 --> 00:39:15.040
<v Karen Green>Liz Gross and Denise Russell.

592
00:39:16.120 --> 00:39:17.600
<v Karen Green>And Stove,

593
00:39:19.120 --> 00:39:20.860
<v Karen Green>published an article in Quadrant,

594
00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:25.980
<v Karen Green>claiming that this had been extreme positive discrimination

595
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:29.200
<v Karen Green>and that there had never been any discrimination

596
00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:33.720
<v Karen Green>against women in any philosophy department in Australia

597
00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:39.700
<v Karen Green>because philosophers were too interested in the argument

598
00:39:39.700 --> 00:39:44.560
<v Karen Green>to bother about what the sex of the candidate was.

599
00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:46.500
<v Karen Green>They would be happy with a broomstick

600
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:48.220
<v Karen Green>if the broomstick was able to argue.

601
00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:54.480
<v Karen Green>He went on in a later article

602
00:39:56.180 --> 00:39:58.340
<v Karen Green>in which he lamented the fact

603
00:39:58.340 --> 00:40:01.620
<v Karen Green>that arts had been taken over

604
00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:05.580
<v Karen Green>by deconstruction, irrationalism,

605
00:40:05.580 --> 00:40:07.520
<v Karen Green>and all sorts of wicked things,

606
00:40:07.660 --> 00:40:11.120
<v Karen Green>that if one looked at the women's movement itself,

607
00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:13.740
<v Karen Green>who could resist the conclusion

608
00:40:13.740 --> 00:40:16.480
<v Karen Green>that women are intellectually inferior to us?

609
00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:19.180
<v Karen Green>The feminists have yet to produce

610
00:40:19.180 --> 00:40:22.100
<v Karen Green>a single piece of writing devoted to their cause

611
00:40:22.100 --> 00:40:26.520
<v Karen Green>which any rational creature could attach importance to.

612
00:40:27.940 --> 00:40:29.060
<v Karen Green>As I said,

613
00:40:29.120 --> 00:40:31.380
<v Karen Green>I was a student in that department,

614
00:40:31.620 --> 00:40:34.600
<v Karen Green>and in the traditional and modern department,

615
00:40:34.600 --> 00:40:35.440
<v Karen Green>not the general one.

616
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.460
<v Karen Green>Stove used to sometimes come into the common room

617
00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:41.900
<v Karen Green>and make comments about the stupidities

618
00:40:41.900 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Karen Green>that he'd heard, X or Y,

619
00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:45.500
<v Karen Green>from general philosophy making.

620
00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:49.300
<v Karen Green>And it really was something of an uncomfortable atmosphere.

621
00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:54.640
<v Karen Green>Nevertheless, soon after that,

622
00:40:54.700 --> 00:40:57.500
<v Karen Green>in traditional and modern philosophy,

623
00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:01.300
<v Karen Green>they had a group of bright young women

624
00:41:01.300 --> 00:41:05.640
<v Karen Green>who might have been expected to be put off by the atmosphere.

625
00:41:08.100 --> 00:41:12.080
<v Karen Green>In fact, my supervisor, Michael Devitt,

626
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:15.480
<v Karen Green>used to say,

627
00:41:15.500 --> 00:41:16.440
<v Karen Green>or does say,

628
00:41:16.460 --> 00:41:18.120
<v Karen Green>when you talk to him about this period,

629
00:41:18.340 --> 00:41:20.980
<v Karen Green>oh, look, Stove was really a pussycat.

630
00:41:21.240 --> 00:41:23.460
<v Karen Green>Even though he said these things,

631
00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:24.900
<v Karen Green>he was actually quite supportive

632
00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:26.500
<v Karen Green>of the actual women who came past.

633
00:41:27.020 --> 00:41:29.620
<v Karen Green>David Armstrong was the one who always said

634
00:41:29.620 --> 00:41:32.520
<v Karen Green>that women simply don't have the philosophical gene.

635
00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:35.680
<v Karen Green>And indeed, despite the fact

636
00:41:35.680 --> 00:41:39.120
<v Karen Green>that David Armstrong used to often say this,

637
00:41:39.180 --> 00:41:40.700
<v Karen Green>that women don't have the philosophical gene,

638
00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:43.960
<v Karen Green>at this period, a number of young, bright women,

639
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:48.400
<v Karen Green>Ray Langton, Fiona Cowie, and Natalie Stolger,

640
00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:51.040
<v Karen Green>went to Princeton, were encouraged to go to Princeton,

641
00:41:51.180 --> 00:41:53.500
<v Karen Green>and they have since, all three,

642
00:41:53.620 --> 00:41:57.820
<v Karen Green>had very successful careers in the United States.

643
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:01.300
<v Karen Green>Although they have been back in Australia.

644
00:42:05.500 --> 00:42:11.060
<v Karen Green>So, despite, or perhaps because of this explicit sexism,

645
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:12.520
<v Karen Green>women,

646
00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:16.580
<v Karen Green>were encouraged to

647
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:22.040
<v Karen Green>fight, well,

648
00:42:23.020 --> 00:42:25.200
<v Karen Green>attempt in some ways to analyze

649
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.680
<v Karen Green>why the profession had been so anti-woman.

650
00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:33.180
<v Karen Green>And one of the most important and influential books

651
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:35.220
<v Karen Green>that came out of the period

652
00:42:35.220 --> 00:42:37.640
<v Karen Green>is Genevieve Lloyd's The Man of Reason.

653
00:42:38.860 --> 00:42:41.380
<v Karen Green>This is a book in which she argues that

654
00:42:41.380 --> 00:42:44.400
<v Karen Green>the history of philosophy has been dominated

655
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.760
<v Karen Green>by a masculine metaphor,

656
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:48.800
<v Karen Green>a set of metaphors according to which

657
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:51.300
<v Karen Green>what is rational is male,

658
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.860
<v Karen Green>what is irrational is female,

659
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.700
<v Karen Green>the mind is conceived of as masculine,

660
00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.360
<v Karen Green>the body feminine.

661
00:42:58.640 --> 00:43:02.940
<v Karen Green>And she argued that this makes it extremely difficult

662
00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:08.120
<v Karen Green>for women to enter into a profession

663
00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:11.360
<v Karen Green>which, if you like, represents women,

664
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:16.120
<v Karen Green>but also represents itself as so deeply masculine.

665
00:43:18.180 --> 00:43:22.000
<v Karen Green>Lloyd felt that dualism,

666
00:43:22.140 --> 00:43:24.040
<v Karen Green>the Cartesian dualism,

667
00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:27.060
<v Karen Green>the idea that there are minds,

668
00:43:27.380 --> 00:43:30.020
<v Karen Green>non-material minds and physical bodies,

669
00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:34.380
<v Karen Green>which has been very popular within traditional philosophy,

670
00:43:34.540 --> 00:43:37.920
<v Karen Green>was part of the problem.

671
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:43.420
<v Karen Green>And she was also, I think, influenced by Derrida's arguments

672
00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:46.400
<v Karen Green>that philosophy can't escape metaphor.

673
00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:50.940
<v Karen Green>That in itself led to a movement

674
00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:54.080
<v Karen Green>amongst other women,

675
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:56.920
<v Karen Green>Elizabeth Grose,

676
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:02.360
<v Karen Green>who was also extremely, perhaps more influenced by Irigaray,

677
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:04.360
<v Karen Green>and Moira Gatins,

678
00:44:04.460 --> 00:44:06.200
<v Karen Green>who wrote this book Feminism and Philosophy.

679
00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:07.900
<v Karen Green>And she was also, I think, influenced by

680
00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:08.760
<v Karen Green>the work of the feminist,

681
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:10.440
<v Karen Green>to develop something which they called

682
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.580
<v Karen Green>philosophy of the body,

683
00:44:11.740 --> 00:44:15.820
<v Karen Green>where they tried to get away from such dualistic ways of thinking.

684
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:23.520
<v Karen Green>And Lise in particular has been very influential

685
00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:27.160
<v Karen Green>in terms of analysing and using the work

686
00:44:27.160 --> 00:44:32.980
<v Karen Green>of such deconstructionist feminists as Irigaray and Kristeva,

687
00:44:33.120 --> 00:44:36.000
<v Karen Green>particularly in her early book Sexual Subversions,

688
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.000
<v Karen Green>and in later works like Volatile Bodies.

689
00:44:42.560 --> 00:44:46.380
<v Karen Green>But these are not the only areas of publication

690
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:53.980
<v Karen Green>which since that period women have been quite successful in.

691
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.980
<v Karen Green>In Australia they have traditionally worked often

692
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:02.080
<v Karen Green>in ethics and moral psychology and applied ethics.

693
00:45:02.520 --> 00:45:05.820
<v Karen Green>And ecofeminism is an area

694
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.540
<v Karen Green>where I think Australian women have made quite an impact,

695
00:45:10.720 --> 00:45:14.160
<v Karen Green>particularly Val Plumwood,

696
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:18.600
<v Karen Green>whose book Women and the Mastery of Nature

697
00:45:18.600 --> 00:45:20.140
<v Karen Green>has been influential,

698
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:23.240
<v Karen Green>and Freya Mathews, The Ecological Self.

699
00:45:23.540 --> 00:45:25.460
<v Karen Green>Also at La Trobe,

700
00:45:25.600 --> 00:45:29.940
<v Karen Green>Janet Thompson has done important work on global justice.

701
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.200
<v Karen Green>Some of us, Linda and myself,

702
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:39.340
<v Karen Green>have worked sometimes in more traditional areas of philosophy,

703
00:45:40.180 --> 00:45:43.480
<v Karen Green>such as Dummett, who is a philosopher of language,

704
00:45:43.560 --> 00:45:44.620
<v Karen Green>on whom I wrote a book,

705
00:45:44.720 --> 00:45:47.280
<v Karen Green>and Linda published on vagueness.

706
00:45:47.420 --> 00:45:50.360
<v Karen Green>But there isn't really enough time to talk about all the things

707
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:55.440
<v Karen Green>that women have been doing more recently in Australian philosophy.

708
00:45:56.740 --> 00:46:02.180
<v Karen Green>I thought I'd simply end with some statistics.

709
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:03.740
<v Karen Green>Where are we going?

710
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.240
<v Karen Green>Are things getting better?

711
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:13.620
<v Karen Green>And this, which is from a recent survey

712
00:46:13.620 --> 00:46:16.440
<v Karen Green>of the situation of women in philosophy in Australia,

713
00:46:16.700 --> 00:46:21.620
<v Karen Green>shows that things look as though they might be getting a bit better.

714
00:46:21.700 --> 00:46:24.380
<v Karen Green>Still incredibly difficult for women

715
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:30.020
<v Karen Green>in philosophy to get up to professor level,

716
00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:33.920
<v Karen Green>but levels of philosophers at the lower level

717
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:35.840
<v Karen Green>are looking quite good.

718
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:41.060
<v Karen Green>But one shouldn't perhaps take too much optimism from that,

719
00:46:41.220 --> 00:46:43.160
<v Karen Green>because it seems that what's happening

720
00:46:43.160 --> 00:46:46.580
<v Karen Green>is the proportion of women might be going up,

721
00:46:46.640 --> 00:46:51.780
<v Karen Green>but that's partly because the numbers of men are going down.

722
00:46:52.680 --> 00:46:56.920
<v Karen Green>And it may be that as philosophy is getting less status,

723
00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:03.220
<v Karen Green>women are being welcomed more readily into it.

724
00:47:03.540 --> 00:47:04.680
<v Karen Green>I'll stop there.

725
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:08.680
<v Lynda Burns>Thank you.

726
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:17.040
<v Lynda Burns>I open the meeting for discussion now.

727
00:47:17.260 --> 00:47:23.340
<v Lynda Burns>Could you put your hands up, and I will take questions.

728
00:47:23.420 --> 00:47:25.320
<v Lynda Burns>And there's a roving microphone,

729
00:47:25.780 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Lynda Burns>and could you please use that microphone,

730
00:47:28.680 --> 00:47:29.800
<v Lynda Burns>which will be handed around.

731
00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Lynda Burns>Could you put your hand up if you have a question

732
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.360
<v Lynda Burns>for either of the speakers?

733
00:47:34.820 --> 00:47:35.380
<v Lynda Burns>Ian.

734
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.080
<v Speaker 3>This is a question for Chris.

735
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.420
<v Speaker 3>I was wondering if I understood correctly.

736
00:47:42.700 --> 00:47:44.820
<v Speaker 3>He suggested that a possible connection

737
00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:49.800
<v Speaker 3>between inconsequential and inconsequence

738
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.460
<v Speaker 3>in mathematics and Buddhism.

739
00:47:52.940 --> 00:47:55.780
<v Speaker 3>Could you elaborate on that, or did I misunderstand?

740
00:47:57.060 --> 00:47:57.700
<v Chris Mortensen>Yeah.

741
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:00.880
<v Chris Mortensen>Slightly misunderstanding.

742
00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:03.080
<v Chris Mortensen>The connection...

743
00:48:04.100 --> 00:48:05.360
<v Chris Mortensen>What I wanted to say is that

744
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:09.880
<v Chris Mortensen>Buddhism is compatible with scientific realism

745
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:11.840
<v Chris Mortensen>and the identity theory of mind,

746
00:48:11.960 --> 00:48:16.380
<v Chris Mortensen>contrary to what many people might think.

747
00:48:16.460 --> 00:48:19.880
<v Chris Mortensen>I didn't actually specifically want to bring in

748
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.940
<v Chris Mortensen>the theory of inconsistency.

749
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:26.420
<v Chris Mortensen>And in particular,

750
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:32.360
<v Chris Mortensen>I think it's sometimes incorrectly held

751
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.360
<v Chris Mortensen>that Buddhists are, after all, mystics,

752
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:39.740
<v Chris Mortensen>who are constantly speaking ineffably and in paradox.

753
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:44.360
<v Chris Mortensen>I think that's a travesty of Buddhism,

754
00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:48.840
<v Chris Mortensen>particularly for the second millennium

755
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:50.520
<v Chris Mortensen>of Buddhist thinking,

756
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:57.160
<v Chris Mortensen>let's say from 100 AD to 1000 AD.

757
00:48:58.040 --> 00:49:02.160
<v Chris Mortensen>There's a lot of very careful, rigorous work

758
00:49:02.160 --> 00:49:04.240
<v Chris Mortensen>that was done in North India and also in Tibet.

759
00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:10.160
<v Chris Mortensen>So the connections...

760
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:13.380
<v Chris Mortensen>I mean, I think everybody's got to come to terms

761
00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:14.740
<v Chris Mortensen>with the theory of inconsistency,

762
00:49:14.780 --> 00:49:17.700
<v Chris Mortensen>but I don't think that it's specific to the Buddhist issue.

763
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:19.520
<v Chris Mortensen>I merely wanted to suggest that Buddhism,

764
00:49:19.620 --> 00:49:20.840
<v Chris Mortensen>properly understood,

765
00:49:22.560 --> 00:49:25.460
<v Chris Mortensen>is not something that thinks of itself

766
00:49:25.460 --> 00:49:28.560
<v Chris Mortensen>as floating off and airy-fairy and transcendental.

767
00:49:28.700 --> 00:49:31.200
<v Speaker 3>On the contrary,

768
00:49:31.520 --> 00:49:33.660
<v Chris Mortensen>it's a good hard-headed religion,

769
00:49:33.660 --> 00:49:35.040
<v Chris Mortensen>if religion it be.

770
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:41.240
<v Lynda Burns>Questions for the speakers?

771
00:49:42.540 --> 00:49:42.960
<v Lynda Burns>Yeah.

772
00:49:50.900 --> 00:49:53.840
<v Lynda Burns>I mean, it doesn't matter who answers this,

773
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:57.840
<v Audience>but I just wanted to continue on the subject of Buddhism.

774
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:01.660
<v Audience>Moola Panti...

775
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:05.480
<v Audience>It's a safe pain.

776
00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:06.420
<v Audience>You can answer it,

777
00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:07.500
<v Audience>and that's a very Buddhist thing to do.

778
00:50:08.120 --> 00:50:10.580
<v Audience>You can answer this yes, no, or I don't know.

779
00:50:11.520 --> 00:50:14.140
<v Audience>Is Moola Panti saying anything more

780
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:18.400
<v Audience>than the subjective idealism of the Yogacaras?

781
00:50:20.260 --> 00:50:24.460
<v Chris Mortensen>I don't know about Moola Panti.

782
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.020
<v Chris Mortensen>I do know that subjective idealism

783
00:50:28.020 --> 00:50:31.120
<v Chris Mortensen>is one strand in Buddhism,

784
00:50:31.260 --> 00:50:32.740
<v Chris Mortensen>also a strand in Hinduism,

785
00:50:32.740 --> 00:50:35.700
<v Chris Mortensen>particularly, as you say, Yogacara.

786
00:50:37.540 --> 00:50:40.220
<v Chris Mortensen>But there's a lot of Buddhists out there

787
00:50:40.220 --> 00:50:42.520
<v Chris Mortensen>that are not absolute idealists.

788
00:50:42.980 --> 00:50:46.180
<v Chris Mortensen>And it's a contested issue

789
00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:49.580
<v Chris Mortensen>within the tradition of Buddhist philosophy,

790
00:50:49.680 --> 00:50:50.520
<v Chris Mortensen>and isn't that interesting?

791
00:50:54.060 --> 00:50:55.700
<v Audience>Can I follow up on...

792
00:50:55.700 --> 00:51:01.940
<v Chris Mortensen>Can you encapsulate what Moola Panti is saying?

793
00:51:01.940 --> 00:51:02.860
<v Chris Mortensen>Oh, no, no, no.

794
00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:04.320
<v Chris Mortensen>I don't know enough about Moola Panti.

795
00:51:04.420 --> 00:51:05.940
<v Chris Mortensen>How do you feel about that, Karen?

796
00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:09.580
<v Karen Green>I'm not really an expert on Moola Panti either.

797
00:51:09.740 --> 00:51:10.240
<v Karen Green>I'm sorry.

798
00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:12.080
<v Lynda Burns>Can we have somebody down the front here?

799
00:51:21.080 --> 00:51:23.820
<v Audience>Would either of the speakers like to comment

800
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:26.540
<v Audience>on the article about the University of Melbourne

801
00:51:26.540 --> 00:51:28.760
<v Audience>philosophy department in this morning's Australian?

802
00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:29.860
<v Chris Mortensen>Yes.

803
00:51:30.520 --> 00:51:31.560
<v Chris Mortensen>I haven't read it.

804
00:51:31.560 --> 00:51:32.060
<v Chris Mortensen>Have you read it?

805
00:51:32.140 --> 00:51:32.960
<v Lynda Burns>I haven't read it either.

806
00:51:33.120 --> 00:51:33.880
<v Lynda Burns>You can.

807
00:51:35.380 --> 00:51:37.140
<v Karen Green>I'm afraid I haven't read that.

808
00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:38.180
<v Karen Green>I read the age,

809
00:51:38.380 --> 00:51:41.060
<v Karen Green>so that shows my Melbourne prejudices.

810
00:51:41.340 --> 00:51:43.880
<v Karen Green>But, yes, the philosophy department at Melbourne

811
00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:46.540
<v Karen Green>has been severely cut

812
00:51:46.540 --> 00:51:48.940
<v Karen Green>because of the financial crisis

813
00:51:49.560 --> 00:51:51.900
<v Karen Green>at Melbourne University.

814
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:56.980
<v Karen Green>And there were promises

815
00:51:57.560 --> 00:51:59.200
<v Karen Green>that positions would be replaced,

816
00:51:59.260 --> 00:52:01.540
<v Karen Green>but those seem not to be fair.

817
00:52:01.560 --> 00:52:01.760
<v Karen Green>I think it's a good thing that we're not

818
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:02.880
<v Karen Green>being filled.

819
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:10.440
<v Karen Green>So, yes, they are now down to only six and a half members.

820
00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:12.960
<v Karen Green>There are two women.

821
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:20.920
<v Karen Green>So this perhaps makes this graph look even more appropriate,

822
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:22.580
<v Karen Green>that as the number of men go down,

823
00:52:22.660 --> 00:52:25.560
<v Karen Green>the proportion of women goes up.

824
00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:30.120
<v Chris Mortensen>If I may just say, I think it's disgraceful

825
00:52:30.120 --> 00:52:30.940
<v Chris Mortensen>what's been done to Melbourne.

826
00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:33.060
<v Chris Mortensen>I haven't read the thing in the paper this morning,

827
00:52:33.080 --> 00:52:34.080
<v Chris Mortensen>but I think it's disgraceful.

828
00:52:35.100 --> 00:52:38.540
<v Chris Mortensen>In my opinion, Melbourne was the best philosophy department

829
00:52:38.540 --> 00:52:40.980
<v Chris Mortensen>in the country, and it's just been lacerated.

830
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:41.900
<v Chris Mortensen>I think that's shocking.

831
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:45.040
<v Lynda Burns>Yes, certainly true.

832
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:48.840
<v Lynda Burns>Other questions?

833
00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:50.900
<v Lynda Burns>Yes.

834
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.760
<v Lynda Burns>The lady just there, sorry.

835
00:52:55.220 --> 00:52:55.700
<v Speaker 7>Yes.

836
00:52:58.040 --> 00:52:59.060
<v Speaker 7>I'm going to have it now.

837
00:53:01.700 --> 00:53:02.300
<v Speaker 7>Okay.

838
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:02.700
<v Lynda Burns>Okay.

839
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:03.180
<v Lynda Burns>Yes.

840
00:53:04.980 --> 00:53:05.960
<v Lynda Burns>Yes, please.

841
00:53:06.220 --> 00:53:06.680
<v Lynda Burns>All right.

842
00:53:06.700 --> 00:53:06.920
<v Lynda Burns>Go ahead.

843
00:53:08.220 --> 00:53:11.020
<v Speaker 8>Given these sort of cuts to philosophy departments

844
00:53:11.020 --> 00:53:12.840
<v Speaker 8>and attacks on them and whatnot,

845
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:20.520
<v Speaker 8>it seems that, yes, it's a consequence

846
00:53:20.520 --> 00:53:23.560
<v Speaker 8>of what's going on economically,

847
00:53:23.860 --> 00:53:28.280
<v Speaker 8>but it seems perhaps it's also a consequence

848
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:30.100
<v Speaker 8>of the fact that philosophy departments

849
00:53:30.120 --> 00:53:37.180
<v Speaker 8>don't have much of a public image,

850
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.260
<v Speaker 8>not necessarily a negative public image,

851
00:53:40.340 --> 00:53:41.580
<v Speaker 8>but no public image at all.

852
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.920
<v Speaker 8>And I'm wondering if the panellists have anything to say

853
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:48.340
<v Speaker 8>about how we might go about changing that.

854
00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:57.120
<v Karen Green>I actually think that the history of what happened

855
00:53:57.660 --> 00:54:00.100
<v Karen Green>with women in the 70s was rather unfortunate.

856
00:54:00.120 --> 00:54:04.720
<v Karen Green>Because it's meant that, at least from the point of view of women,

857
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:09.880
<v Karen Green>philosophy has seemed rather unwelcoming.

858
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:13.260
<v Karen Green>And a lot of, I didn't actually say in my talk,

859
00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:16.120
<v Karen Green>and perhaps I should have, people like Liz Gross

860
00:54:16.120 --> 00:54:18.440
<v Karen Green>and quite a lot of other women who've worked

861
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:21.760
<v Karen Green>in continental philosophy have ended up leaving Australia.

862
00:54:22.040 --> 00:54:24.720
<v Karen Green>And also even leaving philosophy, that's to say,

863
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:27.100
<v Karen Green>they've found women's studies or literary,

864
00:54:28.340 --> 00:54:30.100
<v Karen Green>literature departments more, you know,

865
00:54:30.100 --> 00:54:31.000
<v Karen Green>more embracing.

866
00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:38.580
<v Karen Green>And there are many, many women who came through philosophy

867
00:54:39.100 --> 00:54:43.740
<v Karen Green>but have ended up elsewhere because they,

868
00:54:45.720 --> 00:54:50.940
<v Karen Green>because I think the, maybe philosophy has just got itself

869
00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:55.620
<v Karen Green>a bit stuck on a few rather technical problems

870
00:54:55.620 --> 00:54:59.680
<v Karen Green>which don't necessarily talk to the wider,

871
00:55:00.940 --> 00:55:01.460
<v Karen Green>public.

872
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:08.680
<v Karen Green>And this is my analysis which probably Chris won't agree with.

873
00:55:09.720 --> 00:55:10.240
<v Chris Mortensen>Yeah.

874
00:55:13.140 --> 00:55:19.480
<v Chris Mortensen>Look, I, if you want some way of priming the intuitions

875
00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.560
<v Chris Mortensen>of the general public, I mean, I offered you one.

876
00:55:22.660 --> 00:55:24.540
<v Chris Mortensen>You could point out to them that it was philosophers

877
00:55:24.540 --> 00:55:27.480
<v Chris Mortensen>that started the world's first universities, for example.

878
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:29.840
<v Chris Mortensen>And I mean, I think that the influence of philosophy

879
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:30.880
<v Chris Mortensen>has certainly been there.

880
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:34.480
<v Chris Mortensen>It's just that it's been subtle and not easy to see,

881
00:55:34.580 --> 00:55:38.300
<v Chris Mortensen>but you can talk about the widespread influence

882
00:55:38.300 --> 00:55:41.960
<v Chris Mortensen>of logical positivism in the early part of the 20th century

883
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:46.060
<v Chris Mortensen>on many, many different academic disciplines, for example.

884
00:55:48.520 --> 00:55:50.260
<v Chris Mortensen>So, nil desperandum.

885
00:55:50.260 --> 00:55:55.340
<v Chris Mortensen>I mean, I think you can educate people by pointing

886
00:55:55.340 --> 00:55:57.240
<v Chris Mortensen>all these facts out to them.

887
00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.140
<v Chris Mortensen>You can begin to point out the effects of non,

888
00:55:59.140 --> 00:56:03.220
<v Chris Mortensen>of utilitarianism on the 19th century and so on.

889
00:56:03.640 --> 00:56:05.240
<v Chris Mortensen>I'm not so hopeless.

890
00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:08.280
<v Chris Mortensen>As for technical issues, I'm not going to apologise

891
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:13.800
<v Chris Mortensen>for being interested in trying to create a new sort

892
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.300
<v Chris Mortensen>of mathematics.

893
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:19.900
<v Chris Mortensen>That's obviously going to be difficult for most people

894
00:56:19.900 --> 00:56:20.560
<v Chris Mortensen>to follow.

895
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:24.900
<v Chris Mortensen>But on the other hand, the motivation that human beings

896
00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:28.760
<v Chris Mortensen>are ubiquitously contradictory, it seems to me,

897
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:30.680
<v Chris Mortensen>ought to be something that grabs your imagination.

898
00:56:31.260 --> 00:56:34.160
<v Chris Mortensen>Now, this is something that's not unique to myself.

899
00:56:34.680 --> 00:56:37.760
<v Chris Mortensen>Significant numbers of Australian logicians have been working

900
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:41.700
<v Chris Mortensen>within such a paradigm, and I think it's one of the reasons

901
00:56:41.700 --> 00:56:43.740
<v Chris Mortensen>why Australia is well known in world logic.

902
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:55.940
<v Speaker 7>Karen, I'm attempting a Masters of Philosophy.

903
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:03.960
<v Speaker 7>And I think that there's quite a few problems and pressures

904
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:06.440
<v Speaker 7>for women, or I've certainly felt them.

905
00:57:07.520 --> 00:57:10.500
<v Speaker 7>Do you... you've thought about this...

906
00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:13.760
<v Speaker 7>Have you any... I don't know if I want to say solutions,

907
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.620
<v Speaker 7>but anything that you think can improve the situation for women?

908
00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:21.660
<v Karen Green>So, I am actually a little bit critical

909
00:57:21.660 --> 00:57:26.740
<v Karen Green>of the line that's been taken by feminists,

910
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:28.420
<v Karen Green>that philosophy is masculine.

911
00:57:29.620 --> 00:57:35.680
<v Karen Green>In fact, it seems to me that there is a huge forgotten history of women philosophers.

912
00:57:36.700 --> 00:57:44.420
<v Karen Green>And my own strategy, I suppose, for trying to, I guess, make women feel that philosophy

913
00:57:44.420 --> 00:57:50.580
<v Karen Green>is something that women can do, is to work in the history of women's ideas. So I've just

914
00:57:50.580 --> 00:57:55.540
<v Karen Green>published a book called The History of Women. The History of Women's Political Thought in

915
00:57:55.540 --> 00:58:05.280
<v Karen Green>Europe, 1400 to 1700, is a terrible 18th century title, I'm sorry. But that's a way of trying

916
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:14.680
<v Karen Green>to rediscover actually what is an incredible contribution that women have made to European

917
00:58:14.680 --> 00:58:21.020
<v Karen Green>culture in terms of their development of ideas, sometimes in texts which the tradition of

918
00:58:21.020 --> 00:58:24.100
<v Karen Green>philosophy doesn't recognise as being philosophical texts.

919
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:25.080
<v Karen Green>But

920
00:58:25.080 --> 00:58:25.520
<v Karen Green>often

921
00:58:25.520 --> 00:58:28.880
<v Karen Green>often in texts that are quite clearly straight philosophy.

922
00:58:30.680 --> 00:58:34.340
<v Karen Green>So I guess that's the only way...

923
00:58:34.340 --> 00:58:36.040
<v Karen Green>I mean, partly,

924
00:58:37.700 --> 00:58:40.960
<v Karen Green>I think women have been very badly served

925
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:43.740
<v Karen Green>by the institution of philosophy

926
00:58:43.740 --> 00:58:47.900
<v Karen Green>where texts written by women have not been taught,

927
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.780
<v Karen Green>haven't been edited,

928
00:58:49.020 --> 00:58:51.880
<v Karen Green>haven't been put into the history of ideas,

929
00:58:52.140 --> 00:58:55.080
<v Karen Green>and that's the way that I think we need to move,

930
00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:58.080
<v Karen Green>but it's a very slow, slow process.

931
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:01.540
<v Karen Green>If I may just add...

932
00:59:03.120 --> 00:59:03.720
<v Chris Mortensen>Sure.

933
00:59:05.020 --> 00:59:05.940
<v Chris Mortensen>Well, I just...

934
00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:08.860
<v Chris Mortensen>OK, I just wanted to add a single sentence.

935
00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:10.480
<v Chris Mortensen>Yes, of course.

936
00:59:10.580 --> 00:59:14.540
<v Chris Mortensen>I've just been to a large logic conference in Prague,

937
00:59:14.680 --> 00:59:17.340
<v Chris Mortensen>the main European logic conference,

938
00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:19.340
<v Chris Mortensen>annual European logic conference.

939
00:59:19.420 --> 00:59:23.040
<v Chris Mortensen>About 25% of the papers were given by women.

940
00:59:23.100 --> 00:59:24.680
<v Chris Mortensen>They were very fine papers indeed.

941
00:59:25.080 --> 00:59:27.920
<v Chris Mortensen>We must not give way to essentialism

942
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.200
<v Chris Mortensen>about what women are capable of.

943
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:33.140
<v Chris Mortensen>I heard brilliant performances, right,

944
00:59:33.240 --> 00:59:34.060
<v Chris Mortensen>throughout that conference.

945
00:59:36.520 --> 00:59:39.120
<v Lynda Burns>Just got to get some women logicians going in Australia.

946
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:40.040
<v Lynda Burns>Oh, there are.

947
00:59:40.100 --> 00:59:42.940
<v Lynda Burns>Actually, in Australia, logic is not...

948
00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:45.160
<v Karen Green>There's actually an issue...

949
00:59:45.160 --> 00:59:46.540
<v Karen Green>This is not just an Australian issue,

950
00:59:46.600 --> 00:59:48.040
<v Karen Green>the problem of women in philosophy.

951
00:59:49.520 --> 00:59:53.820
<v Karen Green>There has been some stuff on the web

952
00:59:53.820 --> 00:59:54.920
<v Karen Green>about the fact that women,

953
00:59:55.080 --> 00:59:58.380
<v Karen Green>who haven't been very visible within logic,

954
00:59:58.580 --> 00:59:59.420
<v Karen Green>at least in the journals,

955
01:00:00.100 --> 01:00:02.680
<v Karen Green>but in fact, within the Journal of Philosophical Logic,

956
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:04.340
<v Karen Green>which was one of the places which was discussed,

957
01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:09.240
<v Karen Green>17% of the Australians were women,

958
01:00:09.340 --> 01:00:13.140
<v Karen Green>which was much better than the 2% from the rest of the world.

959
01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.280
<v Karen Green>So at least we're doing relatively well

960
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:16.440
<v Karen Green>in terms of female logicians.

961
01:00:19.660 --> 01:00:24.920
<v Speaker 9>I was going to raise the problem of the discipline of philosophy.

962
01:00:25.080 --> 01:00:27.040
<v Speaker 9>I've been very lucky.

963
01:00:27.060 --> 01:00:28.400
<v Speaker 9>I'm a neuroscientist at Flinders,

964
01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:31.060
<v Speaker 9>and I was very lucky to meet Brian Medland,

965
01:00:31.140 --> 01:00:33.920
<v Speaker 9>who really introduced me to Jeff Maher's work

966
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:36.540
<v Speaker 9>in between us playing table tennis.

967
01:00:37.660 --> 01:00:41.360
<v Speaker 9>And, of course, I immediately realised

968
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:43.320
<v Speaker 9>that the philosophy of Maher was central

969
01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:44.780
<v Speaker 9>to some of the modern neuroscience,

970
01:00:45.060 --> 01:00:47.800
<v Speaker 9>and I was lucky enough to be part of the beginning of neuroscience,

971
01:00:48.040 --> 01:00:49.720
<v Speaker 9>which is not really a professional discipline.

972
01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:54.580
<v Speaker 9>And yet I hear that philosophy, it is a discipline.

973
01:00:55.080 --> 01:00:57.740
<v Speaker 9>And I like to think that neuroscience is becoming a discipline.

974
01:00:58.060 --> 01:01:00.800
<v Speaker 9>And I understand that there's a continuity,

975
01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:02.540
<v Speaker 9>and I accept that entirely.

976
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:06.460
<v Speaker 9>I was part of setting up a cognitive science course at Flinders,

977
01:01:06.520 --> 01:01:07.960
<v Speaker 9>which included the philosophers.

978
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.760
<v Speaker 9>Since then, there was a demise of the entire course,

979
01:01:11.820 --> 01:01:14.720
<v Speaker 9>mostly because the high echelons of academia

980
01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:17.220
<v Speaker 9>did not like this multidisciplinary approach.

981
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:19.120
<v Speaker 9>And my question really is,

982
01:01:19.940 --> 01:01:21.640
<v Speaker 9>while there is indeed a continuity,

983
01:01:21.700 --> 01:01:24.400
<v Speaker 9>and I take advantage of that myself as a neuroscientist,

984
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:26.200
<v Speaker 9>between philosophy and science,

985
01:01:27.100 --> 01:01:30.200
<v Speaker 9>there is a complete discontinuity in their professions

986
01:01:30.200 --> 01:01:33.980
<v Speaker 9>in the way that I can confirm to you

987
01:01:33.980 --> 01:01:36.940
<v Speaker 9>that most of my colleagues, scientists, including myself,

988
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:42.040
<v Speaker 9>are very poor in understanding the philosophical basis of what they do.

989
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:46.080
<v Speaker 9>And I fear that many philosophers are lagging behind

990
01:01:46.080 --> 01:01:48.340
<v Speaker 9>in what they ought to know about science

991
01:01:48.340 --> 01:01:52.140
<v Speaker 9>in order to make their philosophy modern and relevant.

992
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:53.180
<v Speaker 9>And my question is,

993
01:01:53.180 --> 01:01:56.780
<v Speaker 9>what do you think needs to happen in academia

994
01:01:56.780 --> 01:02:00.140
<v Speaker 9>to avoid this huge discrepancy

995
01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:01.480
<v Speaker 9>between what is there physically

996
01:02:02.520 --> 01:02:04.200
<v Speaker 9>versus what is there mentally?

997
01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:11.120
<v Karen Green>I must say, I think that's a very, very good point.

998
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:15.120
<v Karen Green>And I think that some of the best philosophers,

999
01:02:15.140 --> 01:02:17.580
<v Karen Green>some of the best young philosophers in particular,

1000
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:19.860
<v Karen Green>are those who've just taken the opportunity

1001
01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:22.420
<v Karen Green>of doing both science and philosophy

1002
01:02:22.420 --> 01:02:23.160
<v Karen Green>so that they can do it.

1003
01:02:23.180 --> 01:02:31.820
<v Karen Green>So that they can really, well, do both sides of the coin.

1004
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:35.880
<v Karen Green>And I think you'll find in, particularly at Macquarie,

1005
01:02:37.020 --> 01:02:39.020
<v Karen Green>there in the Centre for Cognitive Science,

1006
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:42.060
<v Karen Green>there are philosophers and neuroscientists

1007
01:02:42.060 --> 01:02:43.640
<v Karen Green>working quite closely together.

1008
01:02:44.060 --> 01:02:46.540
<v Karen Green>And I think that's actually the way things need to go.

1009
01:02:46.900 --> 01:02:47.420
<v Chris Mortensen>Sure.

1010
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:51.520
<v Chris Mortensen>I think a responsible philosopher who's going to work

1011
01:02:51.520 --> 01:02:52.880
<v Chris Mortensen>on these sorts of areas really,

1012
01:02:53.180 --> 01:02:55.640
<v Chris Mortensen>has to take the opportunity

1013
01:02:55.640 --> 01:02:57.400
<v Chris Mortensen>to educate themselves properly about it.

1014
01:02:58.060 --> 01:02:59.100
<v Chris Mortensen>Not just neuroscience.

1015
01:02:59.120 --> 01:03:01.400
<v Chris Mortensen>I think of the philosophy of physics, for example,

1016
01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:03.960
<v Chris Mortensen>which is well-practiced at the University of Adelaide

1017
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:05.980
<v Chris Mortensen>through Graham Nerlich, who's still very active.

1018
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.800
<v Chris Mortensen>The philosophy of physics is well-known throughout the world.

1019
01:03:11.320 --> 01:03:13.060
<v Chris Mortensen>There are philosophers who work in it.

1020
01:03:13.140 --> 01:03:18.660
<v Chris Mortensen>They're almost invariably well-informed about the area.

1021
01:03:19.060 --> 01:03:20.880
<v Chris Mortensen>I mean, I know it takes time, you know,

1022
01:03:20.900 --> 01:03:22.360
<v Chris Mortensen>if you want to be an expert in two things.

1023
01:03:23.180 --> 01:03:24.380
<v Chris Mortensen>And it's going to take a long time.

1024
01:03:27.040 --> 01:03:29.380
<v Chris Mortensen>So, well, the responsibility is there

1025
01:03:29.380 --> 01:03:32.720
<v Chris Mortensen>to inform yourself properly and to talk to people like yourself,

1026
01:03:32.920 --> 01:03:38.260
<v Chris Mortensen>you know, who can assist in the understanding of these matters.

1027
01:03:39.900 --> 01:03:41.860
<v Audience>We need to do things to a close.

1028
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.260
<v Audience>I'm sorry.

1029
01:03:42.660 --> 01:03:44.300
<v Audience>Could you please thank the audience?

