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<v Robyn McDermott>I'd like to introduce my old friend, Nairi Brown,

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<v Robyn McDermott>who was one of the first Indigenous medical graduates in Australia

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<v Robyn McDermott>from the University of Newcastle.

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<v Robyn McDermott>And I've known her over the years.

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<v Robyn McDermott>She's had more jobs than me, many more jobs than me,

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<v Robyn McDermott>even though she's a bit younger,

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<v Robyn McDermott>including working for the Australian Medical Association

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<v Robyn McDermott>as president of the Australian Indigenous Doctors Association.

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<v Robyn McDermott>And she was also assistant director

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<v Robyn McDermott>of the Menzies School of Health Research in Darwin for many years.

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<v Robyn McDermott>So she's moved around the country a little bit.

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<v Robyn McDermott>At the moment, she is the co-director of the Posh Centre

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<v Robyn McDermott>for Indigenous Health at the University of Sydney.

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<v Robyn McDermott>And as well as combining all of those with a family

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<v Robyn McDermott>and cultural ties up into the Yolngu area in Northern Territory,

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<v Robyn McDermott>she's nearly finished a PhD.

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<v Robyn McDermott>So Nairi's got a lot on the plate,

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<v Robyn McDermott>as do nearly all of the Indigenous leaders here.

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<v Robyn McDermott>We started out last night with a fairly robust exchange,

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<v Robyn McDermott>and I hope we continue in that spirit today.

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<v Robyn McDermott>After all, we are trying to push the limits a little bit here.

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<v Robyn McDermott>Nairi, take it away.

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<v Robyn McDermott>I'm not going to try and pronounce...

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<v Robyn McDermott>Nairi, take it away.

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<v Robyn McDermott>I'm not going to try and pronounce the Yolngu word

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<v Robyn McDermott>for the title of today's talk.

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<v Robyn McDermott>But it's really about working together in partnership,

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<v Robyn McDermott>and I think there's been too little of that,

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<v Robyn McDermott>and we've got to start doing things differently now.

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<v Robyn McDermott>So thanks, Nairi.

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<v Robyn McDermott>APPLAUSE

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<v Ngiare Brown>Thank you for...

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<v Ngiare Brown>I don't know about old friend, but certainly a long-time friend.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Good afternoon.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'd like to begin by acknowledging the traditional owners

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<v Ngiare Brown>of the land on which we gather.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Without who...

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<v Ngiare Brown>Who's sacrifice and generosity,

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<v Ngiare Brown>we wouldn't be able to be here, live here, love here,

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<v Ngiare Brown>raise our families or conduct our work.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I bring respects from my father and my grandmother's country

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<v Ngiare Brown>on the south coast of New South Wales,

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<v Ngiare Brown>from the Dharawal and the Yuin peoples,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and I bring those respects to the elders,

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<v Ngiare Brown>to the communities here, to families and to each of you.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And thanks for your interest this afternoon.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I thought it might just be Robert and myself,

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<v Ngiare Brown>because I had no title on the paper.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So I love that you don't mind a surprise.

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<v Ngiare Brown>My name's Nairi Brown.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm an Aboriginal woman from the south coast of New South Wales.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm a doctor by trade.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I have a clinical background in acute care.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But as Robert mentioned, I've also managed to goof off

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<v Ngiare Brown>in a number of roles in policy, research and medical education.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm currently director at Boolana,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the Poach Centre for Indigenous Health,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which is a newly established entity at the University of Sydney

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<v Ngiare Brown>looking at Aboriginal health and access to services.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Now, I've chosen a particular Yolngu phrase

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<v Ngiare Brown>for the presentation this afternoon,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and roughly translated, and for a number of reasons.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And that is,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which basically means working together with respect.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And Robin's title for this afternoon was

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<v Ngiare Brown>Doing It The Aboriginal Way,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but we can think about that perhaps this afternoon,

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<v Ngiare Brown>perhaps another time.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The thematic approach to this year's festival

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<v Ngiare Brown>is pushing the limits,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and we were asked to consider where do big ideas come from,

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<v Ngiare Brown>how do we drive change,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and what is enough.

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<v Ngiare Brown>In Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>drip feeding incremental advancement

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<v Ngiare Brown>will not overcome widening disparities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which have basically been two centuries in the making.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So we need to think big, we need to think differently,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and importantly, we need to act.

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<v Ngiare Brown>As individuals, as professionals,

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<v Ngiare Brown>in our family groups and in our communities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and I want everyone to contemplate

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<v Ngiare Brown>what an Indigenous perspective or an Indigenous way

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<v Ngiare Brown>or approach to this year's festival will be.

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<v Ngiare Brown>What an Indigenous perspective or approach might be

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<v Ngiare Brown>to driving change and creating reform.

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<v Ngiare Brown>On a personal note, I have the pleasure,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the honour and the privilege

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<v Ngiare Brown>of working with Yolngu women in Arnhem Land,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they have embraced my family and I.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They share their homes and their wisdom.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They love my children,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they educate us to the notion

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<v Ngiare Brown>as to what it truly is

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<v Ngiare Brown>to be part of an extended family and a community.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So today I'll just touch on a few issues,

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<v Ngiare Brown>just to prompt your thought processes

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<v Ngiare Brown>and maybe get some of the people involved.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'll have some of the discussion going later in the afternoon.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And I'll ask you to take into account

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<v Ngiare Brown>Indigenous perspectives and world views,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the core relevance and importance of Indigenous leadership,

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<v Ngiare Brown>ownership, acknowledgement and respect.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'll talk a little about human rights,

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<v Ngiare Brown>social justice and social inclusion.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And perhaps my opinion on how we might better enshrine

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<v Ngiare Brown>protections for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples

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<v Ngiare Brown>and their families.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'll also talk a little about the role

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<v Ngiare Brown>and other vulnerable groups

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<v Ngiare Brown>into the very fabric of our social order

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<v Ngiare Brown>and our social systems.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm sure we're all well aware of the current status

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<v Ngiare Brown>of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health outcomes.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And I don't wish to dwell on issues of dysfunction

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<v Ngiare Brown>or stereotypes, but rather more positive approaches

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<v Ngiare Brown>to Aboriginal self-determination, identity and survival.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But I do want to remind us

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<v Ngiare Brown>why many of these disparities actually persist

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<v Ngiare Brown>despite numerous successful and effective efforts

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<v Ngiare Brown>to enable the DEFRA

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<v Ngiare Brown>I just want to provide a few examples of that.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And I'm not referring to individuals or schools or non-Indigenous families

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<v Ngiare Brown>who truly were acting in what they thought were the best interests of Aboriginal people,

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<v Ngiare Brown>rightly or wrongly,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but to state policy and legislation that determined the action of governments and departments

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<v Ngiare Brown>through the documented phases of protection, segregation and assimilation.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So the Aborigines Protection Act of 1869, or the long title,

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<v Ngiare Brown>was the Act for the Protection and Management of the Aboriginal Natives of Victoria.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So Victoria was actually the first colony to enact comprehensive controls of Aboriginal people.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And the Board for the Protection of Aborigines was responsible for where Aboriginal people lived,

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<v Ngiare Brown>what they did, how they worked, who they married and the language that they spoke.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Aboriginal Protection and Restoration,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the restriction of the sale of Opium Act 1897 in Queensland,

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<v Ngiare Brown>had similar extensive powers over the lives and control of Aboriginal people.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Constitution Amendment Act, Western Australia 1893,

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<v Ngiare Brown>dictated that no Aboriginal was entitled to register for legislative council or legislative assembly.

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<v Ngiare Brown>In contrast, the Constitution Female Suffrage Act of 1895 in South Australia

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<v Ngiare Brown>actually gave all women, including Aboriginal women, the right to vote.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But the Australian Constitution Amendment Act of 1895,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which was the only constitution, was drafted without contribution from women or minorities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and the power to legislate for Aboriginal people remained with the states.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Aborigines Act 1905 for Western Australia actually gave the chief protector

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<v Ngiare Brown>legal guardianship over all Aboriginal children and half-castes under 16 years of age, not their families.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Aboriginal Ordinance 1911 in the Northern Territory

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<v Ngiare Brown>meant that all Aboriginal people had to wear identification discs.

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<v Ngiare Brown>An amendment to that delightfully named

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<v Ngiare Brown>Aboriginals Protection and Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act

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<v Ngiare Brown>made sexual intercourse between an Aboriginal woman and a non-Aboriginal man illegal,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but also allowed for indefinite detention of Aborigines considered to be uncontrollable.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And so for me, thank goodness that was repealed prior to 1969.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The assimilationist policies began around 1940,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and many of these are actually responsible for the removal of Aboriginal children from their families and communities.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Now these policies were not about abuse or neglect,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but they were designed to facilitate the removal of children based on race alone.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Aborigines Protection Act 1940 in New South Wales gave powers to an Aborigines Welfare Board,

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<v Ngiare Brown>whose stated duty it was to facilitate assimilation into the general population.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The Native Administration Act 1954 in WA

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<v Ngiare Brown>said that natives having served in the armed forces for six months and been given,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and honourable discharge, were no longer natives for the purpose of the Act.

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<v Ngiare Brown>How generous.

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<v Ngiare Brown>In the landmark 1967 referendum, the power to legislate for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples

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<v Ngiare Brown>moved to the Commonwealth, and we were then to be counted in the census.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And soon after, in the early 1970s, we saw a shift to principles of self-determination.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We are signatories to various international human rights instruments,

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<v Ngiare Brown>except of course the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But even with these monumental shifts in social awareness and action,

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<v Ngiare Brown>political lip service has never been matched by political commitment, resourcing,

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<v Ngiare Brown>or the vision to actually invest now in order to create change over the coming decades,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and not just in terms of political cycles,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which are usually essentially short-term and driven by the power of kudos

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<v Ngiare Brown>versus the power of long-sightedness.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And in fact, poor decision-making regarding social policy and infrastructure

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<v Ngiare Brown>has actually managed to unravel the power of long-sightedness, and in fact, poor decision-making regarding social policy and infrastructure, has actually managed to unravel the power of long-sightedness.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And in fact, poor decision-making regarding social policy and infrastructure, has actually managed to unravel the power of long-sightedness,

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<v Ngiare Brown>many of the gains made in the last 30 years.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Now I won't go into detail, but I'm happy to discuss it during our conversations.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But the Northern Territory Emergency Response

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<v Ngiare Brown>is an appallingly

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<v Ngiare Brown>good example, if that makes sense at all,

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<v Ngiare Brown>of how the right-stated intentions, and that is to protect Aboriginal children

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<v Ngiare Brown>from sexual abuse and to create safer communities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>ended up so very, very wrong in terms of process and implementation.

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<v Ngiare Brown>ended up so very, very wrong in terms of process and implementation.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The process did not utilise evidence to inform decision-making

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<v Ngiare Brown>and determine the components of the intervention.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The NTAR completely undermined the basic rights of Indigenous peoples, and in fact all citizens,

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<v Ngiare Brown>to participate in decision-making.

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<v Ngiare Brown>It relies upon arbitrary and blanket application

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<v Ngiare Brown>of controls on daily life, rather than a case-by-case consideration,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which is of course a more effective approach to changing behaviours.

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<v Ngiare Brown>There was no consideration of the root cause

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<v Ngiare Brown>of said social dysfunction,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and early reports indicate additional harms currently outweigh any short-term gains.

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<v Ngiare Brown>On the upside, there have been some very positive Indigenous health stories,

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<v Ngiare Brown>including local initiatives that have impacted on antenatal care and perinatal outcomes for

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<v Ngiare Brown>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander mums and bubs in far north Queensland and the Northern

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<v Ngiare Brown>Territory,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the establishment and evolution of community-controlled services that provide benchmark comprehensive

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<v Ngiare Brown>primary health care to Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal kids, and the development of a system of care

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<v Ngiare Brown>for communities across the country.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have professional organisations such as the Australian Indigenous Doctors' Association,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the Aboriginal Dentists' Association, the Congress of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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<v Ngiare Brown>Nurses and a new group, the Australian Indigenous Psychologists' Association, who are the peak

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<v Ngiare Brown>representative bodies for Indigenous health professionals, providing high-level advice

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<v Ngiare Brown>on health policy, medical education and practice.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have senior Aboriginal advisors, academic advisors, and other senior Aboriginal health

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<v Ngiare Brown>advocates.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have national acknowledgement of the racist mistakes that have been made in the past,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and an apology that was not based on a sense of personal guilt but on the understanding

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<v Ngiare Brown>that we cannot heal without it.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have a national health equality campaign that's spearheaded by the Social Justice Commissioner,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the lovely Tom Kalma, and his office, which is a collaboration of leading Aboriginal and

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<v Ngiare Brown>Torres Strait Islander human rights and health advocates from across the country.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have government commitments to Indigenous reform.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We are eliminating disparities in overcoming Indigenous disadvantage.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I want to introduce or reacquaint us with some of the constructs of human rights, a

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<v Ngiare Brown>rights-based approach to health, social justice, and social inclusion.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Human rights are our basic entitlements by way of our humanity.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They protect individuals and communities against actions that interfere with fundamental freedoms

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<v Ngiare Brown>and human dignity, and are principally concerned with the relationship between the state, that

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<v Ngiare Brown>that is our governments and individuals.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And broadly, we have civil and political rights

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<v Ngiare Brown>and social, economic and cultural rights.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They are inalienable, meaning that no one has the right to take them away.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They are interdependent, so the realisation of one right

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<v Ngiare Brown>requires the realisation of a number of others,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they are indivisible.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They are guaranteed and protected under international human rights law.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But in order for them to be effective

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<v Ngiare Brown>and for us to meet our international human rights obligations,

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<v Ngiare Brown>we must actually translate these principles and practices

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<v Ngiare Brown>into domestic policy and legislation.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The rights of Indigenous peoples are no different

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<v Ngiare Brown>than the rights of others, any group or any individual,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but in fact take on different prioritisation

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<v Ngiare Brown>dependent upon cultural as well as social and political imperatives.

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<v Ngiare Brown>A human rights-based approach to health equality, then.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The right to health is not the same as the right to be healthy,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but...

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<v Ngiare Brown>..but the right to the components to be healthy.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So the entitlement to social and systems components

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<v Ngiare Brown>that facilitate and support appropriate health choices and behaviours

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<v Ngiare Brown>and provide healthy environments for growth and development.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They include health education, environmental infrastructure

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<v Ngiare Brown>like housing and sanitation, acute and primary medical care.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They're inclusive of needs across the life cycle.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They promote the human rights principles of self-determination,

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<v Ngiare Brown>participation, non-discrimination and accountability.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And health services must meet the three AQ criteria.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So they must be accessible, acceptable, appropriate and of good quality.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Social justice perspectives and definitions are reflective of political,

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<v Ngiare Brown>civil, economic, philosophical and legal practices.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So fair and proper legislative administration must conform to the natural law

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<v Ngiare Brown>that all persons, irrespective of ethnicity, gender, age, race, must be treated equally,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and without prejudice.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Social justice refers to the distribution of advantages and disadvantages across and within societies

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<v Ngiare Brown>and the impartial, fair and equitable distribution of advantages and benefits.

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<v Ngiare Brown>But my favourite, and that's because it's the simplest,

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<v Ngiare Brown>is equality of opportunity and equality of outcomes.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Social inclusion is broadly concerned with participation in social life

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<v Ngiare Brown>and how systems, policies and services should be developed to facilitate engagement of,

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<v Ngiare Brown>particularly the most vulnerable,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the most disadvantaged and socially excluded.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And social inclusion approaches are designed to reduce disparities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>increase social, civil and economic participation,

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<v Ngiare Brown>give greater voice and promote greater responsibility,

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<v Ngiare Brown>build on individual and community strengths,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they rely heavily upon partnerships,

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<v Ngiare Brown>the creation of tailored services to specific needs.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They give high priority to early intervention and prevention,

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<v Ngiare Brown>use a whole of government approach,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and evidence,

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<v Ngiare Brown>base and integrated data to inform policy and practice.

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<v Ngiare Brown>They focus on locational approaches and plans for sustainability.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So reducing disparities and improving outcomes won't be achieved through health action alone.

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<v Ngiare Brown>In medicine, we tend to underestimate the real importance of relationships

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<v Ngiare Brown>and how essential they are to a successful engagement with individuals and their families

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<v Ngiare Brown>and the community more broadly,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and how we then facilitate successful health outcomes.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Aboriginal business is all about relationships,

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<v Ngiare Brown>communication and partnerships,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and how we interact, understand one another,

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<v Ngiare Brown>acknowledge and celebrate our differences,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but also our commonalities.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We share wisdom, we are inclusive,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and our basic unit is the extended family.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have very clear relationship structures

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<v Ngiare Brown>which determine our interactions,

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<v Ngiare Brown>our cultural responsibilities,

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<v Ngiare Brown>discipline issues, child raising and social networks,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and respect has always been a central tenet of Aboriginal business.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We have been a part of the existing

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<v Ngiare Brown>they've seen more than any of us will ever know,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they know more than 2,000 generations' worth of Aboriginal people.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And I just want to paraphrase some important sort of comments and lessons

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<v Ngiare Brown>that have been shared with me from Arnhem Land, from Central Australia,

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<v Ngiare Brown>and Indigenous peoples from other nations.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And one of my favourites is that children are the soul of the earth,

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<v Ngiare Brown>but our systems are driving the spirit from them.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Young men shall see visions and old men shall dream dreams.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So, in other words, it's up to the young mob to take up the challenges,

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<v Ngiare Brown>fight the battles and drive change.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And it's for the old men to sit back, be the brains of the outfit,

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<v Ngiare Brown>share their expertise and to be our mentors.

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<v Ngiare Brown>An elder told me that the world is in chaos

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<v Ngiare Brown>because Indigenous peoples have been dispossessed and disrespected.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We are the keepers of thousands of generations of knowledge

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<v Ngiare Brown>and cherish Mother Earth as our home.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We are our creator as well as the resting place for our bones

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<v Ngiare Brown>when our spirits go to the ancestors.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We cannot return the balance and the order of Mother Earth

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<v Ngiare Brown>until non-Indigenous communities realise our true worth

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<v Ngiare Brown>and they will come to us seeking to overturn the harm.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So, does this explain an Aboriginal way?

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<v Ngiare Brown>I mean, I think I'm just trying to illustrate a number of components

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<v Ngiare Brown>that are important to an appropriate and inclusive approach

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<v Ngiare Brown>to Indigenous peoples' health and wellbeing

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<v Ngiare Brown>using the very same principles that we use in our work.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The very principles that we have known and nurtured for 2,000 generations.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Our relationships are central and they're central to our culture,

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<v Ngiare Brown>to understanding and to our progress.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And that despite oppression, discrimination and control, we survive.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So there must be something in it,

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<v Ngiare Brown>a resilience that we're only just now beginning to define.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm hoping to sow the seed, facilitate discussion and motivate change

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<v Ngiare Brown>and also hoping to raise awareness

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<v Ngiare Brown>of how Indigenous people are being treated and treated.

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<v Ngiare Brown>I'm hoping to sow the seed, facilitate discussion and motivate change

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<v Ngiare Brown>and also hope that Indigenous perspectives can enrich

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<v Ngiare Brown>and inform the way we think as professionals and as advocates.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Social reform is driven by social action.

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<v Ngiare Brown>It's an active, not a passive phenomenon.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So get out there, be change agents, agitate, aggravate,

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<v Ngiare Brown>which is my specialty, and consider the following

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<v Ngiare Brown>and sow the seed amongst your personal and professional circles.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So one, rather than applying a mainstream perspective

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<v Ngiare Brown>and inflexible systems to Aboriginal health,

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<v Ngiare Brown>invert the approach and invest in Indigenous people.

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<v Ngiare Brown>That's a tool that I'm using now to enable the DEFRA

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<v Ngiare Brown>strengths of our culture because Australia will stand diminished until we do. It's my favourite.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Promote constitutional reform and not a preamble, not just a Human Rights Act, but a constitutional

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<v Ngiare Brown>recognition of the contributions, rights and freedoms of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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<v Ngiare Brown>peoples and all Australian citizens. Constitutional protection for our most vulnerable populations

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<v Ngiare Brown>and constitutional recognition of the right to health might be a very nice start.

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<v Ngiare Brown>We must enshrine human rights, their entitlements and protections in a national document that

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<v Ngiare Brown>reflects contemporary Australia and commits to our responsibilities under international

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<v Ngiare Brown>human rights law.

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<v Ngiare Brown>So now that I've dropped that little bomb, I'd just like to end with a short piece from

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<v Ngiare Brown>Keeping Company, an intercultural conversation. It's a beautiful book and this little piece

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<v Ngiare Brown>describes or is the story that accompanies a very beautiful painting that's on the cover

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<v Ngiare Brown>here and I'm happy for you to come.

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<v Ngiare Brown>And share that and to look at that. And in case I forget, happy NAIDOC week. But the

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<v Ngiare Brown>painting is Reconciliation by Pingari Kwenentyeri Rabantja from Alice Springs. And this is the

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<v Ngiare Brown>story as it goes. This is the story of reconciliation, of how all people in Australia can coexist

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<v Ngiare Brown>in harmony and peace for the future of the nation. Until we reconcile our differences,

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<v Ngiare Brown>we cannot hope to keep company in a constructive, integrated manner. It is when

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<v Ngiare Brown>people can accept each other unconditionally that intercultural conversation can begin.

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<v Ngiare Brown>When we can sit together and talk about the ordinary things of life, the things of importance

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<v Ngiare Brown>for us and one another, we will begin to be a nation of harmony and tolerance. It is a

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<v Ngiare Brown>story of reconciliation with the earth and humankind. By caring and nurturing, the land

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<v Ngiare Brown>can be healed the same way as the people can be. It is a story of reconciliation between

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<v Ngiare Brown>the original inhabitants and the rest of the population.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The story is one of both healing and sickness, of the need to maintain balance in life by

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<v Ngiare Brown>adopting right attitudes and behaviour. According to the Atyere, this story tells of how the

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<v Ngiare Brown>country in and surrounding Alice Springs is a human bodily structure, which in turn is

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<v Ngiare Brown>a symbol of wholeness for all of Australia. Each part of the landscape represents a specific

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<v Ngiare Brown>part of the body. Head, shoulders, trunk, legs and feet, all in balance. The spinal

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<v Ngiare Brown>column is the Todd River, which is the

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<v Ngiare Brown>large, usually dry river which runs north-south through Alice Springs. Overlaying this symbolism

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<v Ngiare Brown>is the Atyere Ayyepi Aranya, which wends its way from all directions of the compass north,

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<v Ngiare Brown>south, east and west, entering the body through its different parts. This Atyere Ayyepi Aranya

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<v Ngiare Brown>reaches out for hundreds of kilometres from its central area. Depending on how balanced

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<v Ngiare Brown>the country and people are, the Ayyepi Aranya has its specific effect either for wellbeing

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<v Ngiare Brown>or sickness. If the land is not nurtured, the people are not able to live in peace.

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<v Ngiare Brown>The people who are failing in their responsibilities will become sick themselves. The small Ayyepi

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<v Ngiare Brown>Aranya are the ones who act as agents for either the sickness or wellbeing. The story

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<v Ngiare Brown>is of special significance for both men and women, neither dominates the other. There

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<v Ngiare Brown>are both men's and women's sacred sites throughout the area. The ceremonial links between the

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<v Ngiare Brown>Ayyepi Aranya and the people are significant wherever the Ayyepi Aranya travels. The colours

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<v Ngiare Brown>of the painting are of particular significance. The background dots on the painting are of

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<v Ngiare Brown>the same importance. The dots represent the multicultural dimension of Australian society,

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<v Ngiare Brown>all living together, intermingling in their many different traditions.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Thank you for your time. I'd love to take questions and I hope you all travel safe.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Manmak.

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<v Speaker 3>Do we have a microphone or can we just...

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's small.

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<v Robyn McDermott>Yeah, it's small.

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<v Robyn McDermott>It's small enough here, so just feel free to enter into some discussion about it. Thanks,

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<v Robyn McDermott>Naira. Do you want to hold up the... It's a great picture and it's great colours too.

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<v Robyn McDermott>And I do commend that book. There's a few copies floating around, but I'm pretty sure

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<v Robyn McDermott>you can get it at Imprints. Any questions?

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<v Speaker 4>My personal philosophy since I was three years old, I've been a philosopher since I was three

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<v Speaker 4>years old. I'm a liberal

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<v Speaker 4>The words that you chose were so meaningful and so tied together that I want to make a formal request to get hold of the transcript

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<v Speaker 4>and also find out when it will be broadcast because I'd like to take some time to work my way through it and eventually think about what action I want to take.

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<v Speaker 4>I already have some actions I want to take for Aboriginal reconciliation, and I'm a white person actually.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm not going to do that.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm sure that your talk will inspire me to some others.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's my request.

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<v Ngiare Brown>Thank you very much for that.

402
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:57.780
<v Ngiare Brown>I really do appreciate it.

403
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Ngiare Brown>And if you don't mind dot points, because that's what it is, and some pencil scribbles, but I might be able to put something together for you.

404
00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:06.020
<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

405
00:26:06.340 --> 00:26:12.660
<v Ngiare Brown>I think in terms of what we can do as individuals, I think we underestimate the importance

406
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:13.420
<v Ngiare Brown>and the impact that it has on the people of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities.

407
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:38.120
<v Ngiare Brown>It's a sin

408
00:26:38.120 --> 00:26:44.900
<v Ngiare Brown>you don't tolerate prejudice and racism, if you are wanting to better understand Aboriginal

409
00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:49.560
<v Ngiare Brown>and Torres Strait Islander peoples or anybody else, in fact, I mean, that is by far one

410
00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Ngiare Brown>of the most powerful and important things that you can actually do.

411
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:53.960
<v Speaker 4>Dial.

412
00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:01.860
<v Robyn McDermott>Cool, this will be a quick session.

413
00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:03.420
<v Robyn McDermott>No, it won't be.

414
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:04.080
<v Robyn McDermott>Okay, cool.

415
00:27:04.840 --> 00:27:12.640
<v Speaker 4>Since the advocacy was dismantled by the previous government, could you comment on governance

416
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:19.540
<v Speaker 4>and leadership, both formal and informal, down in the future?

417
00:27:23.260 --> 00:27:28.640
<v Ngiare Brown>I think that it is very important, in fact, it is essential that we have a national representative

418
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:33.460
<v Ngiare Brown>body and that we have a political voice and that we have political power and influence.

419
00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:38.440
<v Ngiare Brown>I'm not saying that ATSIC was perfect, it was not, but I think it was more an issue

420
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:42.880
<v Ngiare Brown>of governance, support and control than it was of the need for us to be represented,

421
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:43.700
<v Ngiare Brown>for example.

422
00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:52.800
<v Ngiare Brown>There is great Aboriginal leadership, but most of that currently is disjointed or it's

423
00:27:52.800 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Ngiare Brown>local or it's regional.

424
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.620
<v Ngiare Brown>And so if you know where to find people who are influencing activities and initiatives

425
00:27:59.620 --> 00:28:03.300
<v Ngiare Brown>and progress in their communities, it's normally...

426
00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:04.100
<v Ngiare Brown>I'm not saying that they're not going to be the leaders of the communities, but I'm

427
00:28:04.100 --> 00:28:06.920
<v Ngiare Brown>saying that they're going to be our elders, our mothers, our grandmothers, for example.

428
00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:12.940
<v Ngiare Brown>I also count that as leadership and them as being leaders because they are teachers and

429
00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:15.040
<v Ngiare Brown>educators, they are holders of knowledge.

430
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.680
<v Ngiare Brown>They may not necessarily be recognised as such more broadly than that and they certainly

431
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.240
<v Ngiare Brown>don't have the political clout that we would need.

432
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:30.560
<v Ngiare Brown>That's the role of people my age, older, and then my responsibility to bring up the ones

433
00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Ngiare Brown>that come after me to be in the positions to lead.

434
00:28:34.080 --> 00:28:38.300
<v Ngiare Brown>I think that's the role that we need to advise to progress Indigenous issues.

435
00:28:38.660 --> 00:28:44.060
<v Ngiare Brown>So I think currently our leadership is a bit at sixes and sevens.

436
00:28:44.060 --> 00:28:49.380
<v Ngiare Brown>However, Tom Calmer and the Social Justice Commissioners, well, in his last couple of

437
00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:53.940
<v Ngiare Brown>weeks, I think, in that particular position, but they were auspiced with some of the facilitation

438
00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:59.560
<v Ngiare Brown>and coordination of national consultation around what a national representative body

439
00:28:59.560 --> 00:29:00.240
<v Ngiare Brown>might look like.

440
00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:01.540
<v Ngiare Brown>So that's already underway.

441
00:29:01.860 --> 00:29:04.060
<v Ngiare Brown>The reports of those particular processes...

442
00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:05.240
<v Ngiare Brown>The reports of those particular processes should be available soon.

443
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.900
<v Ngiare Brown>And then how we go from there.

444
00:29:07.020 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Ngiare Brown>I mean, there are issues around, well, you know, do we use our land councils?

445
00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:12.880
<v Ngiare Brown>Do we use the previous ATSIC regions?

446
00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:16.660
<v Ngiare Brown>You know, elected processes in terms of who represents whom.

447
00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:20.960
<v Ngiare Brown>There's all of those internal political issues as well as the broader national political

448
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.500
<v Ngiare Brown>issues that we need to deal with.

449
00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:28.040
<v Ngiare Brown>But we need to have a united front about that, have our conversations ourselves, and then

450
00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:32.820
<v Ngiare Brown>let Australian people know that, in fact, we are competent, we are capable, and we are

451
00:29:32.820 --> 00:29:33.660
<v Ngiare Brown>magnificent leaders.

452
00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:34.640
<v Ngiare Brown>And that's given the opportunity.

453
00:29:40.360 --> 00:29:41.280
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

454
00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:42.880
<v Speaker 5>I wonder whether...

455
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.940
<v Speaker 5>I think it was Einstein who said that the problems we face can't be solved with the

456
00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.260
<v Speaker 5>same level of thinking that created them.

457
00:29:50.800 --> 00:29:54.840
<v Speaker 5>And I just wonder whether our level of thinking has transcended far enough yet to be able

458
00:29:54.840 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 5>to solve the problems that we're still dealing with, and whether...

459
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:01.220
<v Speaker 5>In the same way as the white people...

460
00:30:01.220 --> 00:30:03.400
<v Speaker 5>White society needs to get back with the...

461
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:04.060
<v Speaker 5>You know...

462
00:30:04.560 --> 00:30:09.560
<v Speaker 5>Some of the traditional tribal roots that Aboriginal people still appreciate, and we're

463
00:30:09.560 --> 00:30:16.080
<v Speaker 5>so dislocated from the real world by living in cities as we do, that we really, to a great

464
00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:17.160
<v Speaker 5>extent, speak different languages.

465
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:18.420
<v Speaker 5>It's not just a matter of racism.

466
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:20.900
<v Speaker 5>It's a great dislocation.

467
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:25.140
<v Speaker 5>And so the dominance of society needs to transcend along the way.

468
00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:28.660
<v Speaker 5>It's thinking to better accommodate what you're speaking of.

469
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:32.740
<v Speaker 5>And also, I think, I wonder whether indigenous people around the world also need to continue

470
00:30:33.340 --> 00:30:33.960
<v Speaker 5>to transcend.

471
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:36.520
<v Speaker 5>It all comes together at one point.

472
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:38.840
<v Speaker 5>Does that make sense?

473
00:30:39.100 --> 00:30:40.980
<v Ngiare Brown>It does, and I don't disagree at all.

474
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Ngiare Brown>I think, yeah, to paraphrase, it was madness is defined as, you know, trying to get different

475
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.460
<v Ngiare Brown>results from doing exactly the same thing over and over again.

476
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.360
<v Ngiare Brown>Australia is...

477
00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:53.260
<v Ngiare Brown>It's a magnificent country.

478
00:30:53.340 --> 00:30:58.820
<v Ngiare Brown>We are rich in intellectual and financial capacity, and yet we keep making the same

479
00:30:58.820 --> 00:31:00.140
<v Ngiare Brown>mistakes over and over again.

480
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.640
<v Ngiare Brown>So, you know, Aboriginal people aren't passive recipients.

481
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.020
<v Ngiare Brown>We're actually actively engaged in progressing change.

482
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:12.320
<v Ngiare Brown>So, you know, there's an issue of opportunity, for example, or, you know, do we just barge

483
00:31:12.320 --> 00:31:14.600
<v Ngiare Brown>in through the door, which I like as an approach.

484
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:24.220
<v Ngiare Brown>And I think that there are many things that we do in health, in education, in social infrastructure,

485
00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:29.260
<v Ngiare Brown>for example, that would benefit the Australian community more broadly, black, white, green,

486
00:31:29.340 --> 00:31:31.120
<v Ngiare Brown>purple, irrespective.

487
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.340
<v Ngiare Brown>And so, you know, by turning the tables.

488
00:31:33.340 --> 00:31:35.380
<v Ngiare Brown>And you bring some of your margins to the centre.

489
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:39.720
<v Ngiare Brown>And you focus on approaches and principles that are actually inclusive.

490
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.700
<v Ngiare Brown>And, you know, by, I suppose, in one instance, if you focus on your most vulnerable, there's

491
00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:48.940
<v Ngiare Brown>a reason that we have specific programs for children and the aged.

492
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:54.320
<v Ngiare Brown>If you focus on their needs and requirements, then by definition, everybody else who could

493
00:31:54.320 --> 00:31:57.880
<v Ngiare Brown>normally fend for themselves are captured within those particular approaches.

494
00:31:58.060 --> 00:32:02.400
<v Ngiare Brown>But I think also approaches to respect for extended family.

495
00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:07.880
<v Ngiare Brown>You know, inclusive communities where you get to know your neighbours rather than live

496
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:11.380
<v Ngiare Brown>in the same building for a decade and perhaps not even know who's next door.

497
00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:17.660
<v Ngiare Brown>I mean, we tend to, it's interesting that we exist now in big cities and apartment blocks

498
00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Ngiare Brown>and we work in, you know, high rise.

499
00:32:20.380 --> 00:32:26.260
<v Ngiare Brown>But the more technologically advanced we become and we can send texts and faxes and not meet

500
00:32:26.260 --> 00:32:31.420
<v Ngiare Brown>anyone but speak on the mobile, but the more advanced and connected we become, the more

501
00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:32.600
<v Ngiare Brown>isolated we behave.

502
00:32:32.600 --> 00:32:33.600
<v Ngiare Brown>Does that kind of make sense?

503
00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:38.920
<v Ngiare Brown>So rather than sort of looking out and wanting to promote the concept of community, and community

504
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:40.100
<v Ngiare Brown>can be whatever you want it to be.

505
00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:43.700
<v Ngiare Brown>It's not just Aboriginal people, but it's how we engage with one another.

506
00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:48.780
<v Ngiare Brown>Then I think they're the sorts of lessons that Indigenous cultures the world over actually

507
00:32:48.780 --> 00:32:50.960
<v Ngiare Brown>bring to non-Indigenous peoples.

508
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:51.600
<v Ngiare Brown>Does that make sense?

509
00:32:53.320 --> 00:32:54.480
<v Speaker 3>I think there was one more.

510
00:32:57.820 --> 00:32:59.180
<v Speaker 3>I'm very privileged.

511
00:32:59.300 --> 00:33:01.860
<v Speaker 3>You know, I've considered a number of topics.

512
00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:03.780
<v Speaker 3>I've considered the value of communities.

513
00:33:04.860 --> 00:33:06.260
<v Speaker 3>It's part of my work.

514
00:33:06.780 --> 00:33:09.620
<v Speaker 3>But I still wonder whether we need a treaty.

515
00:33:09.780 --> 00:33:14.040
<v Speaker 3>Whether Aboriginal Australia needs a treaty.

516
00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.620
<v Speaker 3>And I'd be really interested to hear your comments.

517
00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:22.680
<v Ngiare Brown>Treaty nice, constitution better.

518
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:29.540
<v Ngiare Brown>Because they don't have to abide by a treaty, whereas every function of government and legislation

519
00:33:29.540 --> 00:33:31.620
<v Ngiare Brown>does have to abide by the constitution.

520
00:33:32.600 --> 00:33:37.000
<v Ngiare Brown>The reason that they could actually enforce the Northern Territory Emergency Response was

521
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.260
<v Ngiare Brown>because constitutionally it was valid.

522
00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:42.620
<v Ngiare Brown>And so we were not otherwise protected, for example.

523
00:33:42.860 --> 00:33:49.140
<v Ngiare Brown>So I would take any step towards recognising our sovereignty and self-determination as

524
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:49.820
<v Ngiare Brown>a positive step.

525
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:57.360
<v Ngiare Brown>And if people wanted to start with an instrument like a treaty, for example, as long as there

526
00:33:57.360 --> 00:34:02.540
<v Ngiare Brown>were enforceable protections and responsibilities and mechanisms for

527
00:34:02.540 --> 00:34:04.360
<v Ngiare Brown>accountability, then yes.

528
00:34:04.620 --> 00:34:07.140
<v Ngiare Brown>But I thought, if I'm going to go, I'm going to go big.

529
00:34:12.500 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 6>Thank you so, so much.

530
00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:16.520
<v Speaker 3>I have two questions.

531
00:34:16.780 --> 00:34:23.860
<v Speaker 6>Firstly, one, I feel in our communities there are so many people concerned, and rightly

532
00:34:23.860 --> 00:34:25.620
<v Speaker 6>so, about the state of the environment.

533
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:26.400
<v Speaker 6>What is happening?

534
00:34:27.540 --> 00:34:29.300
<v Speaker 6>You know, what is happening to the land?

535
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:30.740
<v Speaker 6>And I'm interested in insights.

536
00:34:31.600 --> 00:34:32.120
<v Speaker 6>.

537
00:34:34.680 --> 00:34:39.300
<v Speaker 6>And I'm interested in the Indigenous connection to country and from the Indigenous perspective

538
00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:45.620
<v Speaker 6>how, you know, where the land is there from our experience about what's happening in the

539
00:34:45.620 --> 00:34:52.660
<v Speaker 6>environment, how it gets the observation as to how that comes from an Indigenous perspective

540
00:34:52.660 --> 00:34:53.220
<v Speaker 6>as well.

541
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:53.980
<v Speaker 6>That would be great.

542
00:34:54.080 --> 00:34:59.940
<v Speaker 6>And the second question I have is our personal community is made up of people from so many

543
00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:00.520
<v Speaker 6>different backgrounds.

544
00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 6>Migrants, refugees.

545
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:02.900
<v Speaker 6>Everything like that.

546
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:11.320
<v Speaker 6>The relationship that people from other cultures have to the Indigenous story and the Indigenous

547
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:17.960
<v Speaker 6>experience, how do you observe that in comparison to people that are, you know, Australian born,

548
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.700
<v Speaker 6>red, and, you know, have been here all their life?

549
00:35:22.460 --> 00:35:26.620
<v Speaker 6>You know, compared to someone that's actually migrated here from somewhere else in their

550
00:35:26.620 --> 00:35:28.240
<v Speaker 6>relationship to Indigenous people?

551
00:35:28.600 --> 00:35:29.160
<v Ngiare Brown>Okay.

552
00:35:30.060 --> 00:35:31.520
<v Ngiare Brown>I should write things down.

553
00:35:31.620 --> 00:35:31.860
<v Ngiare Brown>Okay.

554
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.840
<v Ngiare Brown>Well, the first one, I mean, the beauty of, and this is universal, this is an international

555
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:39.560
<v Ngiare Brown>phenomena for Indigenous peoples.

556
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:43.900
<v Ngiare Brown>And, you know, there's around 500 million of us the world over.

557
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:45.920
<v Ngiare Brown>I like that number, 500 million.

558
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.700
<v Ngiare Brown>It's a universal construct that in fact we don't own the earth, we are but custodians.

559
00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:59.020
<v Ngiare Brown>So, in fact, it is our cultural responsibility to care for and nurture because the earth

560
00:35:59.020 --> 00:36:00.520
<v Ngiare Brown>is our mother and our creator.

561
00:36:00.520 --> 00:36:06.440
<v Ngiare Brown>It will be our grave when our spirits move on towards another existence, for example.

562
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:13.640
<v Ngiare Brown>And also, it is our responsibility to make sure that it is nurtured for our children

563
00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:17.140
<v Ngiare Brown>and their children and for generations in perpetuity.

564
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.700
<v Ngiare Brown>There's a lovely saying from an elder in Western Australia, and what was it?

565
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Ngiare Brown>It is our responsibility that we continue our culture for as many years into the future

566
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:30.500
<v Ngiare Brown>as we can.

567
00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:31.820
<v Ngiare Brown>And that's because we have years in our past.

568
00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:36.300
<v Ngiare Brown>So, you know, that real connectedness, so as you move forward, you know, you're creating

569
00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:37.840
<v Ngiare Brown>history, but you're taking it with you.

570
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.100
<v Ngiare Brown>And so, for every year more, there's another one onto that.

571
00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:48.660
<v Ngiare Brown>We don't have the sense of ownership or entitlement then that, well, if we bought our patch of

572
00:36:48.660 --> 00:36:50.660
<v Ngiare Brown>earth, then we can do whatever the hell we want to it.

573
00:36:50.860 --> 00:36:53.360
<v Ngiare Brown>Because it actually, it doesn't belong to us.

574
00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:58.340
<v Ngiare Brown>And so, I think some of the confusion around, say, native title, coexistence with Indigenous

575
00:36:58.340 --> 00:36:58.940
<v Ngiare Brown>peoples.

576
00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:02.720
<v Ngiare Brown>And that, in fact, it's a battle about, you know, either or, it's not.

577
00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:06.200
<v Ngiare Brown>It's about coexistence and about nurturing and about care.

578
00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:11.820
<v Ngiare Brown>And I think there are a number of programs for Indigenous rangers in Northern Australia,

579
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:17.260
<v Ngiare Brown>but all over the country, for example, that recognise the special cultural significance

580
00:37:17.260 --> 00:37:19.860
<v Ngiare Brown>of people's ability to care for country.

581
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:21.260
<v Ngiare Brown>And so, they're employed in those positions.

582
00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:27.240
<v Ngiare Brown>And we can learn a lot from that in terms of environmental care.

583
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:27.680
<v Ngiare Brown>Yeah.

584
00:37:29.140 --> 00:37:47.220
<v Ngiare Brown>DEB DE

585
00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:51.600
<v Ngiare Brown>they actually have their little huts and they fling out their fishing line but then we have

586
00:37:51.600 --> 00:37:57.080
<v Ngiare Brown>cultural refugees where do they go and if they're dispersed how does that culture then survive

587
00:37:57.080 --> 00:38:03.860
<v Ngiare Brown>in its entirety if people are dispersed the world over so who then is going to take responsibility

588
00:38:03.860 --> 00:38:09.760
<v Ngiare Brown>for or support them to then continue does that sort of make sense so I mean I think broadly

589
00:38:10.620 --> 00:38:14.040
<v Ngiare Brown>we can learn a lot from how indigenous peoples actually manage and care for

590
00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:18.460
<v Ngiare Brown>country now you know there are then the complexities on top of that around well

591
00:38:18.460 --> 00:38:22.860
<v Ngiare Brown>they need to live and there are the economic issues and you know well we don't really want

592
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:27.560
<v Ngiare Brown>to grow coca or you know cut down all our palm trees but we can't live and we can't eat if we

593
00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:32.940
<v Ngiare Brown>don't so you know there's all of those issues as well so it's it's how we understand that and

594
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:40.040
<v Ngiare Brown>and you know how we facilitate that balance which is really hard and the second part and I'm sorry

595
00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:43.300
<v Ngiare Brown>you might need to explain it a bit further but are you saying how do indigenous peoples

596
00:38:43.300 --> 00:38:44.020
<v Ngiare Brown>engage in that kind of work and how do you think that's going to help us in that kind of way

597
00:38:44.020 --> 00:38:47.860
<v Ngiare Brown>engage with other mob other sort of other cultural groups

598
00:38:47.860 --> 00:38:52.800
<v Speaker 6>yeah other cultural groups especially people that may not spend their entire life here who may

599
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:59.740
<v Speaker 6>come from you know from overseas other cultures coming to Australia and their understanding of

600
00:38:59.740 --> 00:39:06.280
<v Speaker 6>indigenous history given that a lot of what is presented in our schools is in that sense very

601
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:12.700
<v Speaker 6>shortcoming so I'm kind of I'm interested in and it's probably something I should discuss

602
00:39:12.700 --> 00:39:13.600
<v Speaker 6>also

603
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:41.540
<v Ngiare Brown>I've got two minutes two minutes you um oh look I mean there are some issues and I think that

604
00:39:42.260 --> 00:39:44.000
<v Ngiare Brown>they are in the minority for a reason and I think that's a good point I think that's a good point

605
00:39:44.020 --> 00:39:44.340
<v Ngiare Brown>I think that's a good point I think that's a good point I think that's a good point

606
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:48.400
<v Ngiare Brown>for example by and large I think you know the relationships with people from other cultures

607
00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:55.380
<v Ngiare Brown>um is very positive it's part of what actually makes this country so fascinating uh and you know

608
00:39:55.380 --> 00:40:01.260
<v Ngiare Brown>what are the foundations upon which we then engage I mean obviously your attitude being open-minded

609
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:05.840
<v Ngiare Brown>and respecting where people are coming from whether they've just gotten off a boat last week

610
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.400
<v Ngiare Brown>or you know they're from Europe but have lived here for 30 years or if they've been born and

611
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.000
<v Ngiare Brown>bred here and they've had you know five or six generations that have grown up in Australia and

612
00:40:14.020 --> 00:40:20.060
<v Ngiare Brown>I think the issues are around understanding and reciprocity and you know much of what you get for

613
00:40:20.060 --> 00:40:25.240
<v Ngiare Brown>from a relationship is what you actually put into it I think more broadly all Australians need to

614
00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:30.220
<v Ngiare Brown>know more about the history of this country and the truth it's not the black armband view it's

615
00:40:30.220 --> 00:40:35.940
<v Ngiare Brown>actually what has happened how we live how we have come to be here so just present the facts

616
00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:43.500
<v Ngiare Brown>and then move on but I think much of the problem for a lot of Aboriginal families has been that

617
00:40:44.020 --> 00:40:49.600
<v Ngiare Brown>it's been obfuscated or people deny it and that's very painful and hurtful to people that have

618
00:40:49.600 --> 00:40:54.140
<v Ngiare Brown>actually lived that experience how do you tell someone well you know you've obviously recollected

619
00:40:54.140 --> 00:41:00.680
<v Ngiare Brown>being removed from your family incorrectly because that never happened so you know I mean there are a

620
00:41:00.680 --> 00:41:04.240
<v Ngiare Brown>number you know there's a lot of issues in that and I'm happy to chat about them because my two

621
00:41:04.240 --> 00:41:09.840
<v Ngiare Brown>minutes are probably up um but again you know about relationships and how we engage and interact

622
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.040
<v Ngiare Brown>and how we respect one another

623
00:41:14.020 --> 00:41:16.020
<v Robyn McDermott>we've literally got two moments

624
00:41:16.020 --> 00:41:18.220
<v Robyn McDermott>oh you liar

625
00:41:21.140 --> 00:41:25.420
<v Speaker 7>as you know if you've seen the film Samson and the Lion

626
00:41:26.120 --> 00:41:33.360
<v Speaker 7>it was supposed to be a love story that didn't that didn't seem to be to me at all a love story

627
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:43.800
<v Speaker 7>what it portrayed to me was this unremitting boredom total omni nothing to do if you live in

628
00:41:44.020 --> 00:41:50.840
<v Speaker 7>an isolated settlement what hope is there for all the people in those settlements to have

629
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:58.660
<v Speaker 7>any kind of satisfying life with nothing to do caught between a very ancient culture

630
00:41:59.620 --> 00:42:06.920
<v Speaker 7>and having tasted the rubbish on television uh being addicted to that you know what is the answer

631
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:13.380
<v Speaker 7>I know I lived in Canada for many years and it was generally recognized the minute

632
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:14.000
<v Speaker 7>a minor

633
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:19.160
<v Speaker 7>White health nurse blew into an Indian community up in the Arctic.

634
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:21.460
<v Speaker 7>That culture was changed forever.

635
00:42:22.020 --> 00:42:27.600
<v Speaker 7>I also knew the chief of an Indian tribe in Ontario.

636
00:42:28.100 --> 00:42:33.180
<v Speaker 7>But he and his brother had both received top-notch educations

637
00:42:33.180 --> 00:42:36.780
<v Speaker 7>around a huge worldwide engineering group.

638
00:42:38.060 --> 00:42:41.360
<v Speaker 7>Somewhere in between, there must be some answer.

639
00:42:42.140 --> 00:42:45.700
<v Speaker 7>And education, of course, is of more importance.

640
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:51.300
<v Speaker 7>And if you live in a tribe that comes from the nearest town,

641
00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:54.240
<v Robyn McDermott>what happens?

642
00:42:54.520 --> 00:42:57.800
<v Robyn McDermott>I think if this is going to be a question, it will have to be a very good one.

643
00:43:03.500 --> 00:43:06.900
<v Ngiare Brown>Culture is changed forever at a number of different points.

644
00:43:07.240 --> 00:43:09.120
<v Ngiare Brown>But it's still cultural survival.

645
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:10.080
<v Ngiare Brown>We just evolve.

646
00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:13.620
<v Ngiare Brown>We are, in fact, the oldest living culture on the face of the earth.

647
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.700
<v Ngiare Brown>But there are the traditional expectations, for example,

648
00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:22.580
<v Ngiare Brown>and what most Australians might see as the noble savage,

649
00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:25.320
<v Ngiare Brown>naked, standing on one leg out in the desert.

650
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.660
<v Ngiare Brown>But there's also contemporary Australian Indigenous culture,

651
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:30.900
<v Ngiare Brown>which is just as valid, for example.

652
00:43:31.260 --> 00:43:35.460
<v Ngiare Brown>How do we strike the balance then in terms of opportunity for Aboriginal kids,

653
00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:38.220
<v Ngiare Brown>no matter where they are geographically or socially?

654
00:43:38.500 --> 00:43:39.820
<v Ngiare Brown>Therein lies the challenge.

655
00:43:40.080 --> 00:43:41.440
<v Ngiare Brown>And yes, education is important,

656
00:43:41.940 --> 00:43:46.300
<v Ngiare Brown>because it's about creating opportunities so people then have choice.

657
00:43:46.540 --> 00:43:48.640
<v Ngiare Brown>If they then choose to stay in community,

658
00:43:48.860 --> 00:43:51.140
<v Ngiare Brown>it should be because they choose to stay in community,

659
00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:53.860
<v Ngiare Brown>not because they have no other choice or opportunity.

660
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:57.940
<v Ngiare Brown>If they want to go and be the head of a multinational corporation,

661
00:43:58.420 --> 00:44:00.280
<v Ngiare Brown>then they should be able to do so,

662
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:04.600
<v Ngiare Brown>because the opportunity exists for them to be educated and mentored

663
00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:06.280
<v Ngiare Brown>and to progress in that particular direction.

664
00:44:06.740 --> 00:44:08.780
<v Ngiare Brown>For me, I always wanted to be a doctor.

665
00:44:08.900 --> 00:44:10.060
<v Ngiare Brown>So, I am excited.

666
00:44:10.060 --> 00:44:11.540
<v Ngiare Brown>I am extraordinarily fortunate in that.

667
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.440
<v Ngiare Brown>My parents worked hard.

668
00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Ngiare Brown>I had the opportunity.

669
00:44:15.060 --> 00:44:21.720
<v Ngiare Brown>No, well, I come from a rural community on the south coast of New South Wales.

670
00:44:21.900 --> 00:44:25.320
<v Ngiare Brown>It is different geographically for a variety of other reasons,

671
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:26.800
<v Ngiare Brown>most of it being geography.

672
00:44:27.120 --> 00:44:28.320
<v Ngiare Brown>Can we change that?

673
00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:29.380
<v Ngiare Brown>Not necessarily.

674
00:44:29.700 --> 00:44:33.440
<v Ngiare Brown>We cannot change what services are going to be provided there in the long term,

675
00:44:33.500 --> 00:44:38.380
<v Ngiare Brown>because we can't get people to go and stay and provide sustainable services

676
00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:40.040
<v Ngiare Brown>in a region.

677
00:44:40.060 --> 00:44:40.520
<v Ngiare Brown>We can't do that in a resident manner.

678
00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:42.100
<v Ngiare Brown>But we can work around that.

679
00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:43.500
<v Ngiare Brown>We have done it for non-Aboriginal kids,

680
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.320
<v Ngiare Brown>so there must be some way that we can actually approach that.

681
00:44:46.540 --> 00:44:49.920
<v Ngiare Brown>And in pockets, there are specific initiatives that are working really well.

682
00:44:50.040 --> 00:44:53.440
<v Ngiare Brown>But they are intensive, they are locally led and locally driven.

683
00:44:54.380 --> 00:45:00.760
<v Ngiare Brown>The problem then is having them supported, sustained, financed, for example,

684
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.840
<v Ngiare Brown>and then perhaps rolled out in other areas.

685
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:05.820
<v Ngiare Brown>But that never happens.

686
00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:07.180
<v Ngiare Brown>There are always pilot programs.

687
00:45:07.540 --> 00:45:10.040
<v Ngiare Brown>You know, there is nothing in the way that we, you know,

688
00:45:11.180 --> 00:45:13.820
<v Ngiare Brown>construct policy, practice and resourcing in this country

689
00:45:13.820 --> 00:45:15.620
<v Ngiare Brown>that allows for that kind of sustainability.

690
00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:18.120
<v Ngiare Brown>It is always chop and change and it is always ad hoc.

691
00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:20.840
<v Ngiare Brown>But the bottom line, it is about opportunity and it is about choice.

692
00:45:23.340 --> 00:45:25.020
<v Robyn McDermott>And there is the challenge now.

693
00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:30.840
<v Robyn McDermott>I just want to say all of the sessions are being recorded by Radio Adelaide.

694
00:45:31.900 --> 00:45:33.960
<v Robyn McDermott>And they will be broadcast through the week.

695
00:45:34.160 --> 00:45:38.580
<v Robyn McDermott>You can call them on 83035000.

696
00:45:39.020 --> 00:45:39.460
<v Robyn McDermott>.

697
00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:39.640
<v Robyn McDermott>.

698
00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:40.020
<v Robyn McDermott>.

699
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:40.440
<v Robyn McDermott>.

700
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:45.180
<v Robyn McDermott>.

701
00:45:45.180 --> 00:45:45.400
<v Robyn McDermott>.

702
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:45.560
<v Robyn McDermott>.

703
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:46.500
<v Robyn McDermott>.

704
00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:46.680
<v Robyn McDermott>.

705
00:45:46.680 --> 00:45:46.700
<v Robyn McDermott>.

706
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:49.620
<v Robyn McDermott>.

707
00:45:49.620 --> 00:45:49.660
<v Robyn McDermott>.

708
00:45:49.660 --> 00:45:49.760
<v Robyn McDermott>.

709
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:49.780
<v Robyn McDermott>.

710
00:45:49.780 --> 00:45:49.820
<v Robyn McDermott>.

711
00:45:49.820 --> 00:45:49.840
<v Robyn McDermott>.

712
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:49.860
<v Robyn McDermott>.

713
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:49.880
<v Robyn McDermott>.

714
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:49.900
<v Robyn McDermott>.

715
00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:49.920
<v Robyn McDermott>.

716
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:49.960
<v Robyn McDermott>.

717
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:49.980
<v Robyn McDermott>.

718
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:50.120
<v Robyn McDermott>.

719
00:45:50.120 --> 00:45:50.200
<v Robyn McDermott>.

720
00:45:50.200 --> 00:45:50.260
<v Robyn McDermott>.

721
00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:50.340
<v Robyn McDermott>.

722
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:50.660
<v Robyn McDermott>.

723
00:45:51.260 --> 00:45:51.440
<v Robyn McDermott>.

724
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:52.500
<v Robyn McDermott>.

725
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:54.540
<v Robyn McDermott>.

726
00:45:55.240 --> 00:45:55.420
<v Robyn McDermott>.

