WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.680 Good morning Adelaide. I hope you can all hear me, especially at the back. It's wonderful 2 00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:11.220 to see you out where there is not turned you off in your hundreds and it's wonderful to 3 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:19.140 be here for a session on ideas. Many years ago Bob Hawke said, you're a rotten boss if 4 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:23.240 your doctor workers pay for taking a sickie on the day that Australia won some sailing 5 00:00:23.240 --> 00:00:30.740 race. The America's Cup I think. Today we say to any Skybers in the audience, welcome. 6 00:00:32.620 --> 00:00:37.640 We say to your bosses, any boss who docs the workers pay while they come to a festival 7 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:45.480 about ideas is a rotten boss. So very welcome anyone who would otherwise be in their paid 8 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:52.380 employment today. Special welcome to those who have snuck away to come and think. Welcome 9 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:53.080 to travellers. 10 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:56.360 People who have come a long way. Isn't it wonderful that we haven't had to go to the 11 00:00:56.360 --> 00:01:00.120 Northern Hemisphere to have a big think. It's wonderful to have our friends from the Northern 12 00:01:00.120 --> 00:01:05.920 Hemisphere come to us at the Festival of Ideas. Special welcome to the thinking farmers in 13 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:10.360 the audience. I know some of those have travelled a long way. And a special welcome to those 14 00:01:10.360 --> 00:01:16.300 of you who don't work on a Friday for money. Congratulations for taking time in your lives 15 00:01:16.300 --> 00:01:20.380 away from working for the man. And special welcome if you don't work for money at all. 16 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:22.880 Congratulations and there should be more of it. 17 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:29.900 My name is Barbara Pocock. I lead the Centre for Work and Life at the Hawke Institute at 18 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:34.120 the University of South Australia. And a number of my colleagues from my centre I know are 19 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:39.300 Skyding off amongst you this morning. They're under instructions to Sky. There's nothing 20 00:01:39.300 --> 00:01:44.560 better than living in a city like Adelaide where hundreds of people come together at 21 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:50.960 least every two years for a good think and to celebrate ideas. We are so lucky to live 22 00:01:50.960 --> 00:01:53.020 in a city that values thinking. 23 00:01:53.240 --> 00:02:00.840 And today we have no shortage of people to stimulate us in every thinking way. John Buchanan, 24 00:02:01.740 --> 00:02:07.100 Elizabeth Winehausen and Charles Firth. And we have an hour and a half to indulge ourselves 25 00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:14.460 in our tragic obsessions about work. We're going to go until 12.45 when you're allowed 26 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:20.760 to take your meal break. Unless you're on an AWA in which case you're required to stay 27 00:02:20.760 --> 00:02:23.220 and be very serious. Keep that in mind. 28 00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:51.420 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 29 00:02:51.420 --> 00:02:55.360 Now there are some very famous people in Adelaide who ask very long questions. 30 00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:57.380 You know who you are. 31 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:03.520 And I've got written authority to shut you up after a few minutes. 32 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:07.380 So I'm asking you to be a little aware about sharing the airspace. 33 00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:09.440 This is a very democratic space of thinking. 34 00:03:10.980 --> 00:03:14.800 Oscar Weil once said that work is for those who have nothing better to do. 35 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:18.460 Most Australians don't agree with Oscar Weil. 36 00:03:18.460 --> 00:03:25.500 Most of us, the survey information tells us, 60% of us would go to work even if we 37 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:26.340 didn't need the money. 38 00:03:26.980 --> 00:03:31.860 I repeat this statistic all the time because I find it deeply shocking that if you didn't 39 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:35.060 need to go to work, six out of ten people still would. 40 00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:41.640 However we don't work in the same way in 2007 as we did 20 or 30 years ago. 41 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:46.500 A quarter of us in Australia are now casually employed, essentially on an hourly contract. 42 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:48.440 One in five of us are now employed on a daily basis. 43 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:53.480 Most of us men work more than 50 hours a week on average in Australia every day. 44 00:03:54.160 --> 00:03:59.980 More and more women are joining men in their fetish for paid work in the current sort of 45 00:03:59.980 --> 00:04:02.500 century and that's likely to continue to increase into the future. 46 00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:07.580 And more and more of us have kids and caring responsibilities as we're at work. 47 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:10.440 Further, we have to work harder. 48 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:14.760 The intensification of work in Australia and in many other places around the planet is 49 00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:15.220 increasing. 50 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.420 It doesn't matter whether you're looking after kids in a childcare centre or looking after 51 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:22.820 a child in a nursing centre, training students in a university setting or putting bolts 52 00:04:22.820 --> 00:04:24.720 on cars on a Holden production line. 53 00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:26.380 Work is getting more intensive. 54 00:04:27.960 --> 00:04:33.280 Technology is also reaching into our homes and plugs us in even when we sleep. 55 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:38.900 I recently heard a politician describe how her partner was leaning over the side of the 56 00:04:38.900 --> 00:04:41.160 bed one night and in the middle of the night she said, what are you doing? 57 00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:42.660 And he said, nothing, nothing dear. 58 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:47.400 And he was folding away his laptop very surreptitiously under the bed. 59 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:48.400 He was checking his email. 60 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:49.360 He was looking at his email in the middle of the night. 61 00:04:50.140 --> 00:04:51.300 She was the politician. 62 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:58.700 So there's a lot of talk out there about work-life balance but the metaphor is all wrong. 63 00:04:59.500 --> 00:05:04.840 It's a juggle and there's a lot of messy spillage from work into the rest of life and in the 64 00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:08.380 middle of all that juggle there are a lot of variations in equality. 65 00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:13.240 Let me give you one example from the sphere of work and life which I and my friends at 66 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:14.440 the Centre for Work and Life study. 67 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:18.400 I was recently asked by Wendy Morrison, who's director of the Australian Institute for Work 68 00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:20.700 and Human Resources at a public forum. 69 00:05:21.280 --> 00:05:26.640 In fact it was the Happiness Conference in Sydney with Dala Lama, the star speaker. 70 00:05:27.300 --> 00:05:31.500 And the question was, isn't it possible to find a work-life balance even in very demanding 71 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:31.960 jobs? 72 00:05:32.280 --> 00:05:36.620 Look at St George's CEO, Gail Kelly, who seems to have managed it. 73 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:39.240 Now Gail Kelly frequently is in our national newspapers. 74 00:05:39.400 --> 00:05:43.900 She heads up a very large company with a residential loan book of over $62 billion. 75 00:05:44.220 --> 00:05:46.220 You're probably in debt to her, some of you at least. 76 00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:48.380 The company is implementing a new policy called the 77 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:48.600 Work Life Balance. 78 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:49.920 It's a very important work life initiative. 79 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:54.180 Most recently it gave its grandparents the possibility of a year off to look after grandchildren 80 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:55.580 and has paid maternity leave. 81 00:05:55.660 --> 00:05:56.480 Lots of terrific things. 82 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:01.380 Gail Kelly has held up as an icon of work life balance for many women. 83 00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.280 Most recently in Charter which is the magazine for accountants in Australia. 84 00:06:05.820 --> 00:06:11.020 They said, and I'm going to quote them, since she has been at the helm St George has experienced 85 00:06:11.020 --> 00:06:12.040 incredible growth. 86 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.980 At the same time Kelly has managed to raise four children. 87 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:17.600 Three of them are triplets. 88 00:06:17.900 --> 00:06:18.380 The second child is now 15. 89 00:06:18.380 --> 00:06:21.860 Keeping herself, the article said, in tremendous shape. 90 00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:30.400 She keeps herself in tremendous shape and she ensures she's personally accessible to 91 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:30.900 her staff. 92 00:06:31.340 --> 00:06:35.720 Not surprisingly, the article said, she is reported to sleep just four hours a night. 93 00:06:36.320 --> 00:06:38.020 So that's the bit you're getting wrong. 94 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:39.140 Too much sleep. 95 00:06:41.340 --> 00:06:45.660 Needless to say they included an absolutely gorgeous picture of the very gorgeous Gail 96 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:46.480 Kelly in the article. 97 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:48.360 Something to aspire to if you are an artist. 98 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:48.560 You're an accountant. 99 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:53.740 Now, Gail Kelly's income is reported this year to be $4.4 million. 100 00:06:54.840 --> 00:06:59.380 It's a very poor second of course to Mr Moss who heads up the Macquarie Bank and his income 101 00:06:59.380 --> 00:07:01.560 I think is reported at $33 million this year. 102 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:04.860 That's about $16,000 an hour. 103 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:10.360 Compare these situations with that of someone that was recently interviewed by Jude Earlton 104 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.960 in a project she's doing with Helen Masterman Smith at our centre. 105 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.060 Rosa, a sole parent who lives in Sydney. 106 00:07:17.340 --> 00:07:18.340 She provides for her children. 107 00:07:18.340 --> 00:07:22.020 She provides for herself and five dependent children by working two days a week as a room 108 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:23.300 attendant at a luxury hotel. 109 00:07:23.840 --> 00:07:28.960 She's paid around $14 an hour until yesterday's very generous increase, $10 a week. 110 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:33.580 And she also works a further 16 hours in a shop for nearly $11 an hour. 111 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:39.020 So up including government allowances on $30,000 a year trying to get work-life balance with 112 00:07:39.020 --> 00:07:44.820 her five kids with very long commutes and extended unpaid work of course at home. 113 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.520 She is both time and income poor. 114 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:48.320 So both of these things are reported. 115 00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:51.340 Both Rosa and Gail, personal strategies matter. 116 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:54.840 How they organise themselves, what they train their kids to do and so on. 117 00:07:55.020 --> 00:07:58.860 But it's the minor part of the story about the way working life is affecting them. 118 00:07:59.080 --> 00:08:03.520 It's their commute, it's their hours at work and it's their insecurity and income which 119 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:03.960 is overwhelming. 120 00:08:04.620 --> 00:08:09.220 The very well off like Gail and Mr Moss are more than likely working very long hours and 121 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:12.800 they're joined by a large number of others who are paid much less who are also working 122 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:16.340 very intensively and the rich depend on the poor. 123 00:08:16.580 --> 00:08:18.300 Gail depends on Rosa or Gail depends on Gail. 124 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:47.740 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 125 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:49.340 They're not going to, of course, but you know. 126 00:08:50.540 --> 00:08:54.220 John is a very lively and well-known figure 127 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:57.140 to anyone who has taken a serious interest in work in Australia 128 00:08:57.140 --> 00:08:58.280 in the last 20 years. 129 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:02.080 He's the head of Australia's most significant research centre 130 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:03.140 around work questions. 131 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:05.640 He's the director of the Workplace Research Centre 132 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:06.620 at the University of Sydney. 133 00:09:06.800 --> 00:09:08.960 He's always 15 minutes ahead of the game 134 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.120 and these days he is a boss. 135 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.620 So he has walked both sides of the street, 136 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:15.020 having also been a union activist. 137 00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:19.320 I'm then going to ask Elizabeth to speak and, of course, 138 00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:20.640 Elizabeth will be well known to you 139 00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:21.900 through the pages of The Australian. 140 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:26.920 Elizabeth is one of the few progressive analysts left 141 00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:28.200 standing in the Murdoch Press 142 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.820 and I wonder what her day-to-day life is like. 143 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:33.640 How does she do it? 144 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:36.320 Whatever she does, she does it in a very riveting 145 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.840 and exciting way through the stories and narratives 146 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:39.800 of people's lives. 147 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:43.920 Our third panellist is Charles Firth who will be well known 148 00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:45.000 to you from the beginning. 149 00:09:45.020 --> 00:09:45.280 Charles Firth is a very well known man 150 00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:45.900 He's very well known for his various endeavours. 151 00:09:46.520 --> 00:09:49.560 Unlike his normal presentation, he's giving us a very earnest 152 00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:49.960 speech. 153 00:09:50.140 --> 00:09:51.880 He's promised us in the back green room. 154 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.160 He's planning to be very serious today. 155 00:09:54.400 --> 00:09:56.580 But you will know him as a fine satirist. 156 00:09:56.660 --> 00:09:58.200 I'd like to introduce him through the women 157 00:09:58.200 --> 00:09:59.060 in his life however. 158 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.740 He is the partner of Amanda Tattersall. 159 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:02.720 I've always wanted to do this, 160 00:10:02.740 --> 00:10:03.960 introduce a man through his women. 161 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:06.980 He's the partner of Amanda Tattersall 162 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:11.600 who is a long term activist in New South Wales and an analyst 163 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.420 about activism in the union movement. 164 00:10:14.540 --> 00:10:15.000 And he's never been a man. 165 00:10:15.020 --> 00:10:16.300 He's the nephew of Meredith Bergman 166 00:10:16.300 --> 00:10:18.540 who is a well known Australian figure and politician 167 00:10:18.540 --> 00:10:19.820 in the New South Wales environment. 168 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:21.540 So Charles, there you go. 169 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:23.840 Related to fine women, we expect a lot 170 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:25.420 of serious contributions from you. 171 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:27.100 Please welcome John Buchanan. 172 00:10:34.560 --> 00:10:37.980 Well thank you Barbara and thank you people from Adelaide 173 00:10:37.980 --> 00:10:39.040 for that warm welcome. 174 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:41.580 I've been, I was absolutely delighted 175 00:10:41.580 --> 00:10:43.160 when I got the invitation to come here 176 00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:44.740 because I've always been envious. 177 00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.000 That's what I've always been. 178 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:45.140 I've always been a fan of the idea 179 00:10:45.140 --> 00:10:46.660 that Adelaide can sustain an institution 180 00:10:46.660 --> 00:10:47.780 like the Festival of Ideas. 181 00:10:47.900 --> 00:10:49.440 And I think you should be very proud of yourselves 182 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:50.260 to be part of it. 183 00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:54.680 And so I'd like to say I'm bringing a message of hope 184 00:10:54.680 --> 00:10:55.980 from brain dead Sydney. 185 00:10:57.660 --> 00:10:59.820 That it might be the capital of Australia 186 00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:02.700 but there are a few people over there who think 187 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:03.940 but unfortunately they're a minority. 188 00:11:04.300 --> 00:11:05.640 And brain dead is probably a little harsh. 189 00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:07.900 It's probably more just complacent philistines. 190 00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:11.220 And so what I'm trying to do is show you 191 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:13.900 that there are some currents within the Sydney scene 192 00:11:13.900 --> 00:11:14.900 that are thinking about it. 193 00:11:14.900 --> 00:11:14.980 And I'm going to talk about that. 194 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.520 And hopefully the model you set here 195 00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:20.360 or the festival ideas will be taken up in Sydney. 196 00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:23.780 The topic today is decent work, nice if you can get it. 197 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.620 And I want to address this by addressing four questions. 198 00:11:27.780 --> 00:11:29.700 First of all, what is decent work? 199 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:32.380 Then I want to ask the question who's getting it. 200 00:11:32.900 --> 00:11:35.380 Then I'm going to ask which way to the future, 201 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:36.680 given the sub theme of this conference. 202 00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:38.800 And then finally, how do we get there. 203 00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:40.760 And I'm going to do all that in ten minutes. 204 00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:43.700 So first of all, what is it? 205 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.860 Decent work is a concept that has started to take 206 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.260 on a real force around the world. 207 00:11:49.460 --> 00:11:51.980 The International Labour Organisation, the ILO, 208 00:11:52.180 --> 00:11:54.620 has made it the touchstone of all its work. 209 00:11:54.760 --> 00:11:57.960 And that's very important for actually opening up a new line 210 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:00.000 of debate in the world of policy about work. 211 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:04.160 Essentially what it's about is having jobs that allow people 212 00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:07.400 to live well, to give them the capacity to live a decent life. 213 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:10.620 And there are two key dimensions to it. 214 00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:12.320 There are, if you want to get the full details, 215 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:13.240 there's a lot of them. 216 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:13.680 But essentially, there's a lot of them. 217 00:12:13.700 --> 00:12:14.560 And actually, it boils down to two. 218 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.260 First of all, there's the question 219 00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:17.640 of material living standards. 220 00:12:17.920 --> 00:12:21.060 And this goes to wages and basic conditions of employment 221 00:12:21.760 --> 00:12:24.140 that allow people to keep the wolf from the door. 222 00:12:24.660 --> 00:12:26.620 But I'm not going to talk about that so much today. 223 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.020 I think that's something that Elizabeth will be talking about. 224 00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:31.060 There's another dimension to decent work. 225 00:12:31.300 --> 00:12:35.220 And that goes to the more subjective experience of work. 226 00:12:35.660 --> 00:12:39.220 And here, I'm very inspired by the work of an ILO researcher, 227 00:12:39.380 --> 00:12:42.780 a bloke called Guy Standing, who said if we really want to think 228 00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:43.680 about ILO, we need to think about the work of the people 229 00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:44.040 ... 230 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:44.620 ... 231 00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:48.740 ... 232 00:12:57.180 --> 00:12:57.820 ... 233 00:12:58.580 --> 00:12:59.220 ... 234 00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.720 ... 235 00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:03.540 ... 236 00:13:03.540 --> 00:13:04.020 ... 237 00:13:04.020 --> 00:13:04.320 ... 238 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:04.380 ... 239 00:13:04.380 --> 00:13:04.600 ... 240 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:04.620 ... 241 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:04.640 ... 242 00:13:04.640 --> 00:13:05.720 ... 243 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:05.800 ... 244 00:13:05.800 --> 00:13:05.860 ... 245 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:06.180 ... 246 00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:06.220 ... 247 00:13:06.220 --> 00:13:06.320 ... 248 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:06.480 ... 249 00:13:13.020 --> 00:13:13.660 ... 250 00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:19.340 any job that's put in front of you. It's about actually carrying your load and justifying 251 00:13:19.340 --> 00:13:24.520 your existence through hard activity. But there's another side to work, and Standing 252 00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:29.120 takes this all the way back to Aristotle, and actually says that work is the essence 253 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:35.740 of a human's existence. It's contemplative activity, building yourself as an individual 254 00:13:36.300 --> 00:13:41.260 through contemplative activity. So a key part, I think, of any notion of decent work is this 255 00:13:41.260 --> 00:13:47.960 idea of self-realisation through thoughtful activity. Interestingly enough, this is corroborated 256 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:52.300 in the modern psychological literature and in data that comes out of workers themselves. 257 00:13:53.640 --> 00:13:58.280 We've been doing surveys for Unions New South Wales for a number of years, and one of the 258 00:13:58.280 --> 00:14:03.720 questions we ask is, what makes a good job for you? And overwhelmingly, two responses 259 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:08.800 come back from people. They say, first of all, they want challenging activity, so that 260 00:14:08.800 --> 00:14:11.240 they are extended, and they want a workplace that's more inclusive, and they want a workplace 261 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:17.760 where there can be friendliness and companionship. So this idea of challenging activity and companionship 262 00:14:17.760 --> 00:14:20.380 really goes, I think, to the essence of what is decent work. 263 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:27.040 So who's getting it? This is my second question. Who is getting decent work? Well, I think 264 00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:31.560 we've got to be pretty clear that on the material side of things, most Australian workers are 265 00:14:31.560 --> 00:14:36.040 getting it. Whilst the Howard government has put in a pretty concerted effort to try and 266 00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:40.500 destroy our minimum wage structure, Australian wages are still amongst the best in the English-speaking 267 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:40.940 world. 268 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:44.900 That probably won't be the case if the Howard government wins the next election, but as 269 00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:51.020 we stand as a legacy of many decades of struggle, on a material side of things, wages are pretty 270 00:14:51.020 --> 00:14:54.460 good. Now, there is the problem of the low paid, which Elizabeth will be going into, 271 00:14:54.640 --> 00:14:58.440 but remember the low paid only constitute between 15 and 20 per cent of the workforce. 272 00:14:58.900 --> 00:15:04.280 There is still between 7 and 8 million people who are living on an ILO basis at a fairly 273 00:15:04.280 --> 00:15:05.700 decent material living standard. 274 00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:10.920 But there's more to the issue of decent work than that. There's a whole issue of the 275 00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:16.300 quality of work, as I've mentioned. And here the story is quite difficult and quite different. 276 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:23.000 What Barbara didn't explain to you is that our centre is a neoliberal research centre 277 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:27.480 which is self-financing, where academics who aren't tenured, we've actually got to go out 278 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:29.260 there and do commissioned work. 279 00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:33.420 And the beauty of this is that it means you have people walk through the door and come 280 00:15:33.420 --> 00:15:37.860 up with problems you would never have thought of. And so we've studied issues as diverse 281 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:40.900 as changing wage structures, changing hours of work, changing the amount of work that 282 00:15:40.900 --> 00:15:45.480 people do, problems in the skill formation system, issues around safety and health at 283 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.640 work and matters concerned with equal opportunity. We basically cover the full gamut. If people 284 00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:53.260 have got money to study it, we'll do it for them, basically. 285 00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:57.700 Now, the interesting thing we've found over the years as we've looked at all these issues, 286 00:15:57.780 --> 00:16:02.660 it doesn't matter what topic we are asked to study, whenever you sit down with a group 287 00:16:02.660 --> 00:16:08.740 of workers and you ask what's the key thing that's of concern to you at the moment, overwhelmingly 288 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:10.880 the thing that comes screaming out of focus is the work that you're doing. And that's 289 00:16:10.900 --> 00:16:11.000 because the thing that's of concern to me, especially in the work that's going on in 290 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.880 the workplace, especially in the focus groups or life histories, is the concern with work 291 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:21.280 intensification and chronic understaffing. And this has really been an underlying concern 292 00:16:21.280 --> 00:16:23.980 to us because that's the key story going on in the workplace. 293 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:30.100 And what we've found, this is across the board, across all sectors, sectors as diverse as 294 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:35.100 dairy, farming, coal mining, retail and health, and it goes from the top of the occupational 295 00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:40.880 hierarchy to the bottom. So I used to think the nurses had it bad until I started studying 296 00:16:40.880 --> 00:16:45.660 studying doctors. Now I'm no doctor lover, but if you actually do go out and study the 297 00:16:45.660 --> 00:16:51.320 conditions under which specialists in the public sector are operating, you'll find that 298 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:56.860 their satisfaction in work has been profoundly compromised because of chronic understaffing 299 00:16:56.860 --> 00:17:01.480 and chronic underfunding, particularly in the public health system. So what this means 300 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:07.600 is that very few people are in fact getting decent work. Understaffing and work intensification 301 00:17:07.600 --> 00:17:12.700 is basically sucking the marrow of life out of many people in the work. And this is having 302 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:17.560 quite adverse effects, not just in a kind of psychological sense of wellbeing at work, 303 00:17:18.220 --> 00:17:21.720 it's now playing its way out through the skills system, the safety system, community life 304 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:27.260 and people feeling compromised in their friendships. The example I'm working through for you though 305 00:17:27.260 --> 00:17:32.040 is the question of skill. We've all heard that there are chronic skill shortages. We've 306 00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:36.780 been studying this issue quite closely for the last 10 years and the thing that comes 307 00:17:36.780 --> 00:17:37.580 out of all of the work that we do is that we're not really doing it in a way that's 308 00:17:37.580 --> 00:17:40.840 really good. All the work we've done is that the thing that absolutely kills the coherent 309 00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:45.700 transmission of skill is the squeezing of quiet time out of workplaces. If there isn't 310 00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:49.580 quiet time then people can't share ideas, they can't share innovations, they can't take 311 00:17:49.580 --> 00:17:54.300 a cadet or a apprentice aside and give them that little bit of extra insight that can 312 00:17:54.300 --> 00:17:58.340 help them become a better person. And this is what's really stripping out the capacity 313 00:17:58.340 --> 00:18:02.040 of many workplaces to pass on the skills that they need to to get the stock of people they 314 00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:07.080 require to move into the future. So which way do we go for the future? 315 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:11.140 Well I'm pretty clear on this and I'll be talking about it at greater length on Sunday 316 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:15.560 but essentially we're at a fork in the road. Australia is on a trajectory which is pretty 317 00:18:15.560 --> 00:18:19.240 much similar to that in the English speaking world at large and is most advanced in the 318 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:23.600 US. The dynamics of work intensification are so pronounced there that they've triggered 319 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:28.960 such profound skill shortages that the US military aircraft industry is basically running 320 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:35.740 out of engineers. As the Machine Tool Association in the US said a couple of years ago, we're 321 00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:37.560 basically running out of the workers who can build the equipment that they need to be able 322 00:18:37.560 --> 00:18:41.500 to repair the planes that are going to fight the war on terrorism. So this kind of dynamic 323 00:18:41.500 --> 00:18:47.140 is actually having effects in all sorts of places. But that's not the only route. There 324 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:51.100 is another way and I can talk about this more in questions if you like and the most inspiring 325 00:18:51.100 --> 00:18:55.780 examples I've come across are in the Victorian Public Health System. The nurses there suffered 326 00:18:55.780 --> 00:19:00.480 very badly at the hands of Geoff Kennett, he sacked 1,800 of them in the early 90's which 327 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:05.680 meant by the late 90's they were working in literally intolerable conditions. They moved 328 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.540 you into a profound dispute in which they started to quietly 329 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:11.260 shut down one bed in four until the government would listen to them and 330 00:19:11.260 --> 00:19:15.140 their claim wasn't just for pay they wanted to link staffing levels to 331 00:19:15.140 --> 00:19:19.420 patient flow so that they wanted to say management's lost the right to make 332 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.920 staffing decisions that should be tied to the flow of patients coming through 333 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.280 the door remarkably they won that dispute and I can explain any questions 334 00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:29.320 if you like now they haven't solved the problems in the Victorian public health 335 00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:32.800 system but the Victorians have a lot easier time recruiting and retaining 336 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:36.180 nurses than anywhere else in the country because they have a basic standard on 337 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:42.000 staffing levels so final question is how do we get there well my main 338 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:46.740 suggestion here is that we must break with intellectual rigidities we've heard 339 00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:50.240 a lot about labor market rigidities we've heard a lot about the inflexible 340 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.080 laws but the main thing that's holding us back at the moment is the 341 00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:56.900 intellectual rigidity of neoliberalism and his blood brother neoconservatism 342 00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:00.320 it's only by breaking with these intellectual rigidities that will 343 00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:04.100 develop the space needed to move forward and being part of the festival ideas I 344 00:20:04.100 --> 00:20:06.080 think is a big part of that process thank you 345 00:20:20.560 --> 00:20:26.580 of course decent work is working for a comfortable sitting in a comfortable 346 00:20:26.580 --> 00:20:30.680 desk in a comfortable chair at a newspaper where you get reasonably good 347 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.000 money as a senior feature writer I happen to take a year off doing that to 348 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:36.160 write a book and I'm not sure if I can do that in the future but I think it's 349 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:36.440 a good thing to do and I think it's a good thing to do and I think it's a good 350 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:40.700 book it called dirt cheap about low wage work and when I got back to the 351 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:44.880 newspaper I said to one of my friends I'm not used to being paid for sitting 352 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:51.320 with my ass in the chair and he goes you soon will be however what it made me 353 00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:56.000 think is that I had just worked for in a series of jobs where however busy or 354 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.000 however slow it was you couldn't sit down I once was working in an egg 355 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:06.140 factory in the bush and I sat down because the machinery had stopped 356 00:21:06.140 --> 00:21:10.080 and the supervisor came rushing out and said someone from management might see 357 00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:15.200 you and what's significant about this I think is all this preceded work choices 358 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:21.160 and the further transfer of power from employers to him from employees to 359 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.580 employers I mean to the from the most powerful the most powerful were given 360 00:21:26.580 --> 00:21:31.020 more power the least powerful had more taken from them of course with the 361 00:21:31.020 --> 00:21:35.580 stripping out of unions however it seems to me if we're thinking about the future 362 00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:36.120 you know I think it's a good thing that we're working on a new system and we're 363 00:21:36.120 --> 00:21:36.160 ... 364 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:36.500 ... 365 00:21:39.100 --> 00:21:39.620 ... 366 00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:42.420 ... 367 00:21:46.800 --> 00:21:47.320 ... 368 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:49.800 ... 369 00:21:50.620 --> 00:21:51.140 ... 370 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:51.220 ... 371 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:51.800 ... 372 00:21:51.800 --> 00:21:51.840 ... 373 00:21:51.840 --> 00:21:52.140 ... 374 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:52.200 ... 375 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:52.920 ... 376 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:52.980 ... 377 00:21:57.620 --> 00:21:58.140 ... 378 00:21:58.140 --> 00:21:58.400 ... 379 00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.420 ... 380 00:21:58.420 --> 00:21:58.440 ... 381 00:21:58.440 --> 00:21:58.460 ... 382 00:21:58.460 --> 00:21:58.480 ... 383 00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:58.500 ... 384 00:21:58.500 --> 00:21:58.520 ... 385 00:21:58.520 --> 00:21:58.540 ... 386 00:21:58.540 --> 00:21:59.520 ... 387 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:00.700 ... 388 00:22:06.120 --> 00:22:12.620 the future we have to get to the core of is this notion that if you belong to a 389 00:22:12.620 --> 00:22:18.400 union somehow you are identifying yourself as weaker or not needing 390 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.980 assistance because the further we go down that road the more we'll see what's 391 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:29.300 happening now the weakest people young people at work you know young school 392 00:22:29.300 --> 00:22:32.720 children working now for no penalty rates no shift loadings therefore 393 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:38.180 working longer hours or women who are immensely disadvantaged as the award 394 00:22:38.180 --> 00:22:43.760 system is attacked will will become more and more and more disadvantage I think 395 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:48.800 is already showing up in the figures from the first six months to a year of 396 00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:53.840 work choices I'd rather take questions about what it was like working in an egg 397 00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:59.300 factory in a club or in the Australian if you don't mind thank you very much 398 00:23:04.300 --> 00:23:04.460 ... 399 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:05.540 ... 400 00:23:06.080 --> 00:23:06.240 ... 401 00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:14.260