WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.240 Good afternoon everyone and thank you so much for coming to this session, 2 00:00:03.340 --> 00:00:09.560 braving the cold and the wind this afternoon to come along and listen to this session about 3 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:14.960 a passion for science. First of all I'll start by telling you who I am because I'm not on the 4 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:20.560 program. My name is Susanna Elliott and I'm the Director of the Australian Science Media Centre 5 00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:27.700 in Adelaide and some of you might know this centre as the baby of Baroness Professor Susan 6 00:00:27.700 --> 00:00:31.920 Greenfield, the neuroscientist who was out here as an Adelaide thinker in residence 7 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:39.480 a couple of years ago and this is one of her offspring. So this topic today, a passion for 8 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:44.320 science, is one that's actually particularly close to my heart because in a former life I 9 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:49.180 was a research scientist and I worked for seven years on an adorable little creature called a 10 00:00:49.180 --> 00:00:56.820 slime mould. Now I'm not going to go into any details about slime moulds but if anyone wants 11 00:00:56.820 --> 00:00:57.680 to know how to make a slime mould, I'm going to go into a little bit more detail about how to 12 00:00:57.680 --> 00:00:58.360 make a slime mould. So I'm going to go into a little bit more detail about how to make a 13 00:00:58.360 --> 00:01:02.340 Now something that sounds like it's escaped from your bathroom or has been coughed up by your cat 14 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:07.340 after eating something horrible is actually a very beautiful thing. You can meet me outside 15 00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:13.660 after the session. I'll tell you all about it. But science isn't just interesting, it's essential. 16 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:18.940 It's essential to our well-being and to our future. We have been continuously monitoring 17 00:01:18.940 --> 00:01:22.420 the coverage of science in the centre over the last 18 months and one of the things that we 18 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:27.420 found really interesting is that just over the last 18 months there's been close to a 300% 19 00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:27.660 increase in the number of people who have been in the centre. So we've been able to 20 00:01:27.660 --> 00:01:33.260 increase in the coverage of science and scientists in the media. So it shows that there is interest 21 00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:39.040 out there and yet ironically enrolments in sciences in many of the different fields of 22 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:44.680 science are actually going down and apart from a few notable exceptions including China and India, 23 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:50.140 there seems to be a global phenomenon. So what's going on? Have we lost the passion for science 24 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:57.400 or are we just not communicating well? So to explore this issue with us today we have four 25 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:02.500 really fantastic speakers. They're each going to talk for 10 minutes and I'm going to introduce 26 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:08.120 each of them before they talk and then we're going to have some discussion. Our first speaker today 27 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:13.120 is Dr John Campbell who's a physicist and a communicator extraordinaire from New Zealand 28 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:21.180 and not to be confused with Dr John Campbell who does Campbell Live, the sort of tabloid 29 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:27.140 current affairs program in New Zealand. John Campbell has spent the past 40 years 30 00:02:27.140 --> 00:02:33.960 exploring this issue of science and the communication of science and overcoming 31 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:40.060 disinterest in it. He's the kind of lecturer that I wish that I'd had when I was studying physics. 32 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:45.600 I might have done a lot better in the subject. You might also have heard that he's a firewalker 33 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:50.360 which is not actually a little side industry that he does in order to make money. 34 00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:55.240 It is in fact one of his antics in teaching physics 35 00:02:55.980 --> 00:02:57.120 and I think that's what he's doing. 36 00:02:57.140 --> 00:02:59.400 I think it's an extremely interesting way to do that. 37 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:06.640 He's also known for a biography that he's written of the famous physicist 38 00:03:06.640 --> 00:03:12.500 Ernest Rutherford and he's produced a DVD that helps high school teachers entertain their way 39 00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:18.060 into the hearts of students. He's also created a program for science teachers 40 00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:21.860 called Ask a Scientist. So take it away John. 41 00:03:33.740 --> 00:03:39.240 A lot of science is rather advanced and it's very difficult to communicate with the public. 42 00:03:39.620 --> 00:03:44.300 But so much of it can be communicated and should be and isn't. 43 00:03:45.320 --> 00:03:51.380 How many people here could measure the size of a human cell with really nothing? 44 00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:53.320 Anyone do that? 45 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.120 Next time you've got a blast. 46 00:03:57.140 --> 00:04:03.920 A blue sky is just perfect and you're just looking up at that with relaxed eyes. 47 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:07.520 What you'll see are floaters. 48 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:12.440 Now these are the dead cells in the liquid in the eye 49 00:04:12.440 --> 00:04:15.960 and some of these things are smaller and quite sharp 50 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:19.280 and other things are bigger and quite diffuse. 51 00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:24.800 These are just shadow graphs on the eyeball, on the retina 52 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:26.820 and the sharp ones, 53 00:04:27.140 --> 00:04:29.220 are the ones that are close up to the retina. 54 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:33.660 So all you need to do is look at the sky 55 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:40.160 and get a feel for roughly the size of one of these little floaters 56 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.440 and then look at something, say that painting over there, 57 00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:49.000 and compare the size of the floater with some feature on there. 58 00:04:49.960 --> 00:04:54.200 So now all we have to do is measure that distance and that distance there. 59 00:04:55.400 --> 00:04:57.120 Our eyeball is about 25mm. 60 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.980 25mm deep. 61 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:04.100 And so those sharp ones are the size of the floater back at the eyeball. 62 00:05:04.580 --> 00:05:08.480 And so we just have this long ratio from here to here, 63 00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:14.900 25mm, invert that and multiply by the distance on the painting 64 00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:20.320 and you've got the size of a human cell, about 50 micrometres. 65 00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:24.100 So there's a lot of simple things that can be done 66 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:25.080 and we should be doing them. 67 00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:27.060 The Ask a Scientist program, 68 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.100 I've been running since 1993, 69 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:33.900 and it's really for primary and country teachers 70 00:05:34.880 --> 00:05:39.760 and lower secondary school teachers where if a kid asks a great question 71 00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:42.760 and it's beyond the teacher's knowledge, they pass it to me. 72 00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:48.800 And I get a practicing scientist to write a letterhead letter 73 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.260 to the child in the classroom. 74 00:05:52.660 --> 00:05:54.480 And that's the first stage of magnification. 75 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:55.740 The whole class sees it 76 00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:57.100 and they're like, oh, that's a good idea. 77 00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:58.880 And the teacher has it for the rest of their teaching. 78 00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:02.380 The second stage of magnification is a newspaper column 79 00:06:02.380 --> 00:06:06.840 where it has the child's name, the school and the question 80 00:06:06.840 --> 00:06:09.440 and then the scientist's name, their profession 81 00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:12.620 and their organisation they work for. 82 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.240 And then about 300 words. 83 00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:17.280 With not an equation, it has to be all done in words. 84 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:25.880 And the great questions come from these children under age 12, 85 00:06:26.080 --> 00:06:26.660 maybe 14. 86 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:28.660 But from five and six year olds, 87 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:30.320 and they're really profound questions 88 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:34.140 that I suddenly rock back on my shoes sometimes and think, 89 00:06:34.220 --> 00:06:36.040 holy cow, I've never thought of that. 90 00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:38.100 And they're entirely uninhibited. 91 00:06:38.980 --> 00:06:40.500 Why do we have pubic hair? 92 00:06:41.180 --> 00:06:43.100 All sorts of funny things 93 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:45.100 that one has never actually ever thought about. 94 00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:47.060 And there's some anthropologists 95 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:48.380 that can give a reasonable explanation. 96 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:52.700 So it's an interesting program. 97 00:06:54.760 --> 00:06:57.040 The, I had a primary school teacher, 98 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:57.100 who was a very good teacher, and he was a very good teacher. 99 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:58.500 He was a bit involved with this, 100 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.300 had a Royal Society Fellowship for a while. 101 00:07:01.380 --> 00:07:03.500 And her job was to go back in the classroom and find 102 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:05.500 out what the children got from these responses. 103 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:10.680 And the final question was, if the scientist was here now, 104 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:12.940 what would you say to them? 105 00:07:13.760 --> 00:07:16.100 And this one kid's response was fantastic. 106 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.940 It was, how come someone as intelligent as you, 107 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:22.320 use such big words on us little kids? 108 00:07:25.020 --> 00:07:26.980 And the medics were bad at that. 109 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.760 Because they would always use a long word to cover themselves 110 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:33.700 in their colleague's eye, rather than talk about a belly button. 111 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:40.300 Although the top question that the kids liked, 112 00:07:40.460 --> 00:07:43.300 or rather the response, was about asthma. 113 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:45.720 And it was a medical doctor who responded first. 114 00:07:55.140 --> 00:07:57.100 One of the ways of getting a good response, 115 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:01.660 that's what I would say, that's what I would say, 116 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:02.760 that's what I would say, that's what I would say, 117 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:05.800 that's what I would say, that's what I would say. 118 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:08.200 And that's what I would say. 119 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:08.340 And that's what I would say. 120 00:08:08.340 --> 00:08:08.840 And that's what I would say. 121 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:11.700 And that's what I would say. 122 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:14.120 And that's what I would say. 123 00:08:14.320 --> 00:08:14.820 And that's what I would say. 124 00:08:14.860 --> 00:08:15.460 And that's what I would say. 125 00:08:25.220 --> 00:08:25.240 Yeah. 126 00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:31.900 we need to use the world around us, 127 00:08:32.420 --> 00:08:34.080 and rainbows are great things, 128 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.840 and cartoonists always get rainbows wrong. 129 00:08:38.160 --> 00:08:41.440 If it's not that, it's a pot of gold there, 130 00:08:41.540 --> 00:08:43.400 or some robbers coming to get the pot of gold. 131 00:08:44.980 --> 00:08:48.740 But a real rainbow is like that. 132 00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:50.780 And the real important thing about a rainbow 133 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:56.060 is that the light coming back to us from the raindrops, 134 00:08:56.060 --> 00:08:57.640 in this case a waterfall, 135 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:01.800 are all coming from below that bow, 136 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:06.060 and above it there isn't light being returned to us from those raindrops. 137 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.480 The fact that we have colour 138 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:17.940 is just that blue light travels a little slower than red light in water, 139 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:20.780 and so we get this change in angle. 140 00:09:21.860 --> 00:09:25.200 Rainbows are not perfect colours. 141 00:09:26.060 --> 00:09:28.140 The only good colour in there is the red. 142 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:31.440 The rest are just where various colours can reach, 143 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:34.620 so inside there we've got green, but the red is also there. 144 00:09:43.260 --> 00:09:46.600 The human eye is a great one to use. 145 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:49.620 And if anyone knows a little about optics, 146 00:09:53.420 --> 00:09:55.200 this is a fat lens. 147 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.740 And a fat lens, different colours come to different focal lengths, 148 00:10:01.780 --> 00:10:02.720 focal positions, 149 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:07.400 because of this change in speed between red and blue light. 150 00:10:08.780 --> 00:10:11.640 You can see in the back of the eye there is the lens. 151 00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:14.020 That's only a fine adjuster. 152 00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:18.200 Most of the change in direction, the focusing, 153 00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:19.920 takes place on that front surface, 154 00:10:20.680 --> 00:10:24.060 which is why people have laser surgery to alter the shape of that 155 00:10:24.060 --> 00:10:25.260 so they don't have to wear glasses. 156 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:33.460 But if that's a fat lens, why do we see colours, images quite okay? 157 00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:36.200 They all seem to be at the right distance. 158 00:10:38.540 --> 00:10:39.700 Well, try this one. 159 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:42.620 Now, I'll just do this quickly because it takes a little while, 160 00:10:42.660 --> 00:10:43.300 but have a go at home. 161 00:10:43.400 --> 00:10:47.780 You want some really bright red dots and some really bright blue dots, 162 00:10:48.540 --> 00:10:50.880 and somehow that red has almost come brown, 163 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:51.780 so this is going to be great. 164 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:53.960 Now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to stare at that, 165 00:10:54.020 --> 00:10:56.000 but I want to use the... 166 00:10:56.060 --> 00:11:00.160 imaging of my eyes only using half of each eye. 167 00:11:00.820 --> 00:11:02.360 So I'm going to close my... 168 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.120 Now, if you have a go at doing this, close your left eye, 169 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.460 take your right index finger, 170 00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:09.780 bring it up to the outside of your right eye 171 00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:15.860 until it runs along the right-hand edge of that picture. 172 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:20.060 Now, hold it there, close that eye, do the same with the left. 173 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:21.140 Bring it in from the outside. 174 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:30.020 And can anyone see any difference there? 175 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.620 I'm afraid I haven't got a good read on here. 176 00:11:33.700 --> 00:11:37.500 I should have made a new one instead of copying a slide 177 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:42.080 which uses different dyes to the scanning slide. 178 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:51.420 What you'll see is that the blue image stands forward 179 00:11:51.420 --> 00:11:53.020 and the red image behind. 180 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:56.040 And if you... 181 00:11:56.060 --> 00:11:59.260 If you cover up the inside half of the front part of each eye, 182 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:00.960 you'll get the opposite. 183 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:05.940 And so it's a great example of we do have a fat lens, 184 00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:08.740 we do have terrible chromatic aberration. 185 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.980 The eye-brain system over evolution has taken this out 186 00:12:14.900 --> 00:12:19.020 by having the images on each half of the eye treated differently 187 00:12:19.020 --> 00:12:20.100 and then putting them back together. 188 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.040 How many people are going to be flying home... 189 00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:26.620 home after this? 190 00:12:28.460 --> 00:12:28.940 Right. 191 00:12:29.900 --> 00:12:33.800 Just get a PET bottle, a soft drink bottle. 192 00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:37.000 Actually, the Australian Airlines use a little wee square one 193 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.100 and that would do, but it's not as spectacular. 194 00:12:39.680 --> 00:12:41.000 Preferably one with smooth sides. 195 00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:45.500 Just before the door closes the aircraft, when you've got on, 196 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.860 just open the top of the empty bottle and then nip it up again. 197 00:12:51.420 --> 00:12:55.860 Now, when you're the highest altitude, and that's about, 198 00:12:56.040 --> 00:12:57.960 maybe two-thirds of the way into the flight 199 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:01.080 because the plane usually climbs as they use up fuel, 200 00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:05.840 just put this by your ear and crack it and you'll hear air come out. 201 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.500 The other giveaway, of course, is that when you feel it, 202 00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:11.940 it feels tighter than it was at Wollong. 203 00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:16.400 The air pressure inside there is higher than the cabin pressure. 204 00:13:17.640 --> 00:13:25.040 They reduce the cabin pressure as we go up for two reasons. 205 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:33.140 When you're at the highest altitude, just nip the thing up again and bring it down. 206 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:35.560 And you'll find when you get back to ground, it'll have collapsed. 207 00:13:36.260 --> 00:13:38.440 So what was the pressure inside that cabin? 208 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.040 Well, there are various ways you can do it. 209 00:13:42.060 --> 00:13:47.520 The easiest way is just get some water, put this underneath, open this up, 210 00:13:47.640 --> 00:13:50.760 and the water will rise inside here and now just lower this 211 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.360 so the water levels are the same inside and out. 212 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:56.020 And that means the air pressure inside will now be the same. 213 00:13:56.020 --> 00:13:56.880 It's the same as the air pressure out. 214 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:02.120 And all you have to do is weigh that on your kitchen scales, 215 00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:05.640 then fill the whole thing, weigh it again, and that's close enough. 216 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:08.980 That'll give you the fraction of the water, what you're after is the air. 217 00:14:09.020 --> 00:14:15.600 You'll find it's about two-thirds the atmospheric pressure on the ground. 218 00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:19.420 I once had a doctor say, no, no, no, there's no pressure change, it's fine. 219 00:14:19.640 --> 00:14:21.320 Well, we all know there's a pressure change. 220 00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:24.300 That's why they hand out the boiled lollies on Air New Zealand. 221 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:25.940 So when you suck... 222 00:14:26.020 --> 00:14:28.640 suck them, you're opening up your oestation tubes. 223 00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:37.820 And I will make just one plug for, I think, a very remarkable little gem you have here in Adelaide. 224 00:14:38.180 --> 00:14:40.160 I've just shifted to Port Adelaide. 225 00:14:40.220 --> 00:14:41.240 I had a look at it the other day. 226 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:47.800 It's a lady who was breeding seahorses for the aquarium trade 227 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.700 to save all the seahorses being taken out of the environment. 228 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.000 And so there's an amazing ray of... 229 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.340 of seahorses that they're breeding and have on display. 230 00:14:58.900 --> 00:15:00.640 So I recommend that to people. 231 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:03.140 So that's just... 232 00:15:03.140 --> 00:15:04.860 Anyone can have a passion for science. 233 00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:06.520 I mean, gardeners already have it 234 00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:08.860 because they're growing things 235 00:15:08.860 --> 00:15:11.000 and they know all the little tricks of the trade 236 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.280 and are always learning bits about biology and so on. 237 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:16.460 So it's great fun. 238 00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:18.680 Get around the world. 239 00:15:18.760 --> 00:15:20.680 You get to all sorts of interesting places 240 00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:22.400 and even get to stay at the Hilton. 241 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:23.920 Thank you. 242 00:15:24.140 --> 00:15:24.860 Thank you. 243 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:25.760 Thank you. 244 00:15:30.900 --> 00:15:32.020 Thank you. 245 00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:34.060 I think we'll hold off on questions 246 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:36.600 until all of the speakers have spoken. 247 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.220 So I'm now going to introduce our second speaker today 248 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:41.500 who is Manny Noakes. 249 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:43.580 She's an expert on diet 250 00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:46.980 and a senior researcher at CSIRO Human Nutrition. 251 00:15:47.180 --> 00:15:49.020 But many of you will know Manny 252 00:15:49.020 --> 00:15:50.860 as the co-author of the best-selling book 253 00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:52.520 The CSIRO Well-Being Diet, 254 00:15:52.760 --> 00:15:54.780 which is also known as the book 255 00:15:54.780 --> 00:15:55.980 that managed to bump... 256 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.620 Harry Potter and the Da Vinci Code 257 00:15:57.620 --> 00:15:58.720 off the best-seller list. 258 00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:02.660 It's possibly the only science book 259 00:16:02.660 --> 00:16:03.920 in this country, at least, 260 00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:04.940 that's managed to do that. 261 00:16:05.420 --> 00:16:07.340 So it was quite a feat. 262 00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:09.620 As you'll see from her biography, 263 00:16:10.060 --> 00:16:12.160 Manny also wears many other hats, 264 00:16:12.300 --> 00:16:13.900 including senior lecturer 265 00:16:13.900 --> 00:16:15.680 at Flinders University School of Medicine 266 00:16:15.680 --> 00:16:20.020 and associate professor of medicine 267 00:16:20.020 --> 00:16:22.220 at the University of Adelaide. 268 00:16:22.380 --> 00:16:23.600 Thank you very much, Manny. 269 00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:24.200 Thank you. 270 00:16:29.300 --> 00:16:30.160 Thank you. 271 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.660 I must say, I think I'm a black sheep 272 00:16:32.660 --> 00:16:34.040 amongst the group here tonight. 273 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:36.220 Sometimes you pinch yourself 274 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.660 wondering how you got to the place that you're at. 275 00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:40.920 And talking to a group of people 276 00:16:41.660 --> 00:16:45.020 who I'm sure are highly intelligent, 277 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.140 clearly you must be since you're here 278 00:16:47.140 --> 00:16:48.040 at this time of night 279 00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:49.800 to listen to these presentations. 280 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:53.440 And talking to you about a passion for science 281 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.780 is something that I certainly hadn't anticipated doing. 282 00:16:57.300 --> 00:17:00.420 My education was from an all-girls school. 283 00:17:00.580 --> 00:17:02.240 And I must say that I have to thank 284 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:06.620 one of the nuns at the school 285 00:17:06.620 --> 00:17:08.420 that I went to many, many years ago 286 00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:11.340 who, when I particularly had an interest 287 00:17:11.340 --> 00:17:13.140 in going into a commercial class, 288 00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:15.060 said, no, your grades are way too good. 289 00:17:15.100 --> 00:17:16.620 You need to go into the general class 290 00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:19.580 where physics, chemistry, maths, and so on 291 00:17:19.580 --> 00:17:21.580 were the de rigueur. 292 00:17:22.320 --> 00:17:24.640 And it really is a consequence of that 293 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:25.920 that I'm really here today. 294 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.880 The school was Mary MacKillop College. 295 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:31.200 And of course, Mary MacKillop, I think, is now a saint. 296 00:17:31.280 --> 00:17:34.260 And I think she must be since I'm here today. 297 00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:36.660 And I suspect that she may have had something to do with it. 298 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:40.000 But if I had to say that I was passionate for science, 299 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.460 I'd actually be misleading you 300 00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:44.720 because I'm not really passionate about science. 301 00:17:44.780 --> 00:17:46.720 I'm passionate about what science can do. 302 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:52.040 And so really, I think that when it comes to science, 303 00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:55.420 I'm always somewhat intrigued 304 00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:59.620 by the fact that at times science is referred to 305 00:17:59.620 --> 00:18:02.320 in some ways rather like a demigod 306 00:18:02.320 --> 00:18:04.480 that one should bow before. 307 00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:07.660 Whereas I tend to think of science 308 00:18:07.660 --> 00:18:09.600 as a really useful tool 309 00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:13.340 to work out how to understand things 310 00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:15.080 and how to make things better. 311 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:17.300 And from my particular perspective, 312 00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:20.620 my passion really was related to food 313 00:18:20.620 --> 00:18:24.460 and understanding food from a whole lot of different ways. 314 00:18:24.600 --> 00:18:25.400 And so I think that's a really good question. 315 00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:27.200 Understanding food from its cultural perspective, 316 00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:31.280 understanding what food does from a biological perspective, 317 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:36.200 and understanding the implications of that on human health 318 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:37.920 has really led me to where I am now. 319 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:40.740 And I guess nutrition is one of those areas 320 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:44.000 that's not considered necessarily to be a hard science. 321 00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:47.740 But in fact, we still use the tools of observation 322 00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:50.820 and assessment and testing 323 00:18:50.820 --> 00:18:55.260 to see whether our null hypothesis 324 00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:55.960 is correct. 325 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.180 And the scientific area that I was eventually drawn into 326 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:02.320 was the area of weight management 327 00:19:02.320 --> 00:19:03.840 and trying to understand 328 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:08.340 to what extent we can change dietary patterns 329 00:19:08.340 --> 00:19:11.740 to a point where it can improve human health. 330 00:19:12.520 --> 00:19:14.720 And clearly, in that particular area, 331 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:17.600 one requires not only an understanding of biology, 332 00:19:17.820 --> 00:19:21.100 but an understanding of psychology and human behavior. 333 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.960 And in lots of ways, 334 00:19:23.020 --> 00:19:24.960 I think I know a little bit about it, 335 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:25.240 but I think it's a lot of work. 336 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:25.500 It's a lot of things, 337 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:27.420 but certainly a master of none. 338 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.300 And sometimes that's the way things work best. 339 00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:35.340 Because if I were, in fact, 340 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.720 absolutely entrenched in understanding 341 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.360 the details of nutritional science 342 00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:45.300 without having a broader understanding 343 00:19:45.300 --> 00:19:48.520 of the context in which those details are applied, 344 00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:50.720 the context in which people eat, 345 00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:53.280 again, I don't think I would be here, 346 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:55.220 I don't think I would have been involved 347 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.980 in a publication that became quite so successful. 348 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.960 And so, in some ways, science is great, 349 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:06.860 but we need to also be aware of when, 350 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.400 or the so what element of science 351 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.720 and where we take it from there. 352 00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:15.640 So, for example, in the obesity area, 353 00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:18.920 I can't tell you how many documents there are, 354 00:20:19.040 --> 00:20:23.040 how many reports, how many summit reports, 355 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:24.460 how many inquiries, 356 00:20:24.460 --> 00:20:28.200 and I suspect that probably the number of reports 357 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.700 has increased over time. 358 00:20:29.900 --> 00:20:31.740 And I don't know that any of those 359 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.220 have really enlightened us as far as a community 360 00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:38.460 when it comes to how we tackle the problem. 361 00:20:38.660 --> 00:20:42.100 And I think the reason is that although those reports, 362 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.320 and I contribute to many of them, 363 00:20:44.580 --> 00:20:47.400 although all those reports contain good science, 364 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.160 what is really good about science 365 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.820 is where we take it and how we can apply it. 366 00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:54.420 Absolutely. 367 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.740 Perhaps my real passion is for the application of science 368 00:20:57.740 --> 00:21:01.600 or the science of application rather than the science itself. 369 00:21:02.420 --> 00:21:07.860 From the mid-'90s when we embarked on some of the clinical studies 370 00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:13.720 that led to the development of what then became the CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet, 371 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.520 we certainly didn't have that vision in mind, 372 00:21:16.580 --> 00:21:19.660 but there were some things that I think back now 373 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:23.260 made a big difference to the ultimate outcome. 374 00:21:23.260 --> 00:21:26.640 And what really made a big difference 375 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.800 was the fact that we had that contact with the general public, 376 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.660 that insight into what it was that was being asked, 377 00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:37.200 what were the questions that people were wanting to know 378 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.720 that we could try and resolve through scientific investigation. 379 00:21:42.020 --> 00:21:45.860 And those questions related to the kinds of things that were 380 00:21:45.860 --> 00:21:49.920 and still are a point of popular discussion now 381 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.120 in relation to popular diets, 382 00:21:52.300 --> 00:21:53.240 different approaches, 383 00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:54.300 to weight management, 384 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.180 different approaches to losing weight. 385 00:21:56.560 --> 00:21:58.300 And although we could have just said, 386 00:21:58.360 --> 00:22:01.340 look, you know, you just eat less and move more 387 00:22:01.340 --> 00:22:04.280 and really a high-protein diet is dangerous 388 00:22:04.280 --> 00:22:05.420 and you shouldn't do that, 389 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.900 when we actually looked at the scientific literature thoroughly, 390 00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:12.600 we could not really see that there was enough there 391 00:22:12.600 --> 00:22:14.160 to be able to answer the questions 392 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.800 in a way that we would feel comfortable 393 00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:18.860 that we had the background in. 394 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:23.240 And so we did decide to do some research in that activity, 395 00:22:23.260 --> 00:22:26.560 it was probably something that our peers 396 00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:31.960 would have perhaps not been entirely comfortable with, 397 00:22:32.120 --> 00:22:34.900 but certainly from our perspective, 398 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.380 we were answering questions that people wanted to know. 399 00:22:37.560 --> 00:22:41.380 And it did provide some useful scientific background 400 00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:45.300 and certainly led to a number of scientific publications. 401 00:22:46.040 --> 00:22:48.100