WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.600 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this morning's session of Gender Agenda in the 21st Century. 2 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:11.000 Before we begin, there's been a slight change to the program this afternoon, which I've been asked to announce. 3 00:00:11.380 --> 00:00:24.680 As you know, Robert Fisk isn't here, and as a result, the session that Philippe Van Parijs was to have in the Brookman is now in the Bonython. 4 00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:31.700 So, Philippe Van Parijs is in here, and John Braithwaite is in the Brookman. 5 00:00:32.180 --> 00:00:41.280 So, this morning, we are joined by a distinguished group of panellists who have opted not to speak in alphabetical order. 6 00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:47.160 And the order of the speakers will be Lois Bryson. 7 00:00:49.480 --> 00:00:50.500 No, is that right? 8 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:51.660 No, Susan. 9 00:00:51.900 --> 00:00:52.420 Susan. 10 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:53.860 Susan Malsart. 11 00:00:54.040 --> 00:00:54.660 Lois Bryson. 12 00:00:54.680 --> 00:01:04.760 Lois Bryson, followed by Elizabeth Schussler-Fiorenza, then Moira Rayner, and for some obscure reason, claiming the privilege of speaking last, Dennis Altman. 13 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:16.280 So, can I first introduce and bring to the microphone, we'll get straight underway, we'll be speaking, the panellists will be speaking relatively briefly, 14 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:22.040 because we all want this session to open up and be as much as possible a conversation between us. 15 00:01:22.220 --> 00:01:24.460 So, can I first call to the microphone? 16 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:25.540 Lois Bryson. 17 00:01:26.360 --> 00:01:27.520 Oh, no, I'm sorry. 18 00:01:29.860 --> 00:01:34.800 Ladies and gentlemen, this is the result of just having got off an international flight from Sydney, 19 00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:44.880 and rushing to this hall with an elderly, elderly taxi driver who said, North Terrace? 20 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:53.680 And therefore, I'm a little bit confused, and I would therefore like to call to the microphones first, Susan Malsart. 21 00:02:00.860 --> 00:02:01.460 Thank you. 22 00:02:01.460 --> 00:02:02.740 Thank you, Robert. 23 00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:07.680 I mean, David, for that unusual introduction. 24 00:02:08.440 --> 00:02:12.940 One of the scarier bits of data that came to my attention recently was a study published 25 00:02:12.940 --> 00:02:18.500 in the Review of Economics and Statistics that found the fathers of sons work longer 26 00:02:18.500 --> 00:02:22.220 hours and earn more money than the fathers of daughters. 27 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.040 The baby premium, as it is called, is, of course, well documented in the literature. 28 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:33.300 In the first year after the birth of a child of any sex, the average dad will increase 29 00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:35.900 his paid workload by 82 hours. 30 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:41.640 What we haven't realised before is how extraordinary an inequity that average conceals. 31 00:02:41.760 --> 00:02:49.160 In fact, the baby premium is twice as large for a son as it is for a daughter, 118 hours 32 00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:52.200 for a boy, and 54 hours for a girl. 33 00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:58.020 The study authors were completely astonished by these results, so much so that they went 34 00:02:58.020 --> 00:03:05.280 back over their data, that's 2,243 individuals over a period of 24 years, with a fine-toothed 35 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:05.560 comb. 36 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:06.820 No deal. 37 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:08.360 The findings stood. 38 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:13.120 Do men consciously favour their sons over their daughters? 39 00:03:13.420 --> 00:03:18.400 Do they, for that matter, consciously commit themselves to devoting more time to paid work 40 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:20.160 once they become fathers? 41 00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:21.400 No. 42 00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:24.120 In 2003, I doubted very much. 43 00:03:24.660 --> 00:03:29.880 But consciousness, like choice itself, may be less relevant than we thought. 44 00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:34.120 Conscious are not actively chosen or simply defaulted to. 45 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.380 These are the realities we live with. 46 00:03:36.720 --> 00:03:41.700 The idea is not to apportion blame or argue for resignation or capitulation. 47 00:03:41.980 --> 00:03:44.600 The idea is to develop some insight. 48 00:03:44.820 --> 00:03:51.600 The idea is to understand what is before we attempt to imagine what might be. 49 00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:52.180 The idea is to understand what is before we attempt to imagine what might be. 50 00:03:52.200 --> 00:03:57.080 The idea is to understand what is before we attempt to imagine what might be. 51 00:03:57.760 --> 00:03:59.980 The idea is to understand and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel 52 00:03:59.980 --> 00:04:06.200 and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and 53 00:04:06.200 --> 00:04:06.880 and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and 54 00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:09.120 and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and 55 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.320 and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to 56 00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:21.400 feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel and to feel 57 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:28.460 it is in some horrible sense natural for females to be more heavily invested in nurture and males 58 00:04:28.460 --> 00:04:33.240 to be more heavily invested in protecting and provisioning the nest, well, what of it? 59 00:04:34.140 --> 00:04:39.060 Would that be the end of the conversation or just the start? 60 00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:44.980 Evolution actually teaches us that there is no such thing as human nature. 61 00:04:45.100 --> 00:04:49.880 If what we mean by that is some static biological or behavioral matrix, 62 00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:54.460 we are simply stuck with, like bad ankles or bad in-laws. 63 00:04:55.420 --> 00:04:57.180 There is no human nature. 64 00:04:57.280 --> 00:05:02.480 There are only adaptations that work in a particular environment and adaptations that don't. 65 00:05:02.940 --> 00:05:09.380 There was a time, as Dorothy Dinnerstein reminds us, when it was our nature to walk on all fours. 66 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:11.160 Then somebody stood up. 67 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.220 I'd love to have been there to hear all the apes debating about what God intended. 68 00:05:18.860 --> 00:05:19.860 As Catherine... 69 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:24.040 Catherine Hepburn reminds Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen, 70 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:30.480 human nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we were put on this earth to rise above. 71 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:35.320 Darwin couldn't have said it better. 72 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:41.780 Some of us as mothers and fathers are doing the moral equivalent of standing on our hind legs right now. 73 00:05:42.280 --> 00:05:45.160 No wonder we feel a bit wobbly from time to time. 74 00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:46.460 Thank you. 75 00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:53.400 Thank you. 76 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:56.840 Susan, thank you. 77 00:05:56.900 --> 00:06:03.840 I know that you will all take for granted that no one is on this stage unless they have written a large number of books. 78 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:06.920 I will not go through the titles of the books. 79 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:08.320 They're, of course, all in the programs. 80 00:06:08.820 --> 00:06:10.060 Susan is, of course, an author. 81 00:06:10.140 --> 00:06:14.400 I should also have said before she began that she now teaches at Curtin University. 82 00:06:14.940 --> 00:06:15.260 No. 83 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:15.700 No? 84 00:06:16.780 --> 00:06:17.740 It's all right, David. 85 00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:18.880 Just go on to Lois. 86 00:06:21.140 --> 00:06:22.540 I think I'll take that. 87 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:24.360 That taxi driver is still waiting outside. 88 00:06:24.460 --> 00:06:25.860 I'll go straight back to the airport. 89 00:06:27.380 --> 00:06:35.880 Lois, I can confidently say, was at Newcastle University, is perhaps still resident in Newcastle. 90 00:06:36.140 --> 00:06:36.700 No. 91 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:37.340 No. 92 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:40.800 Is a sociologist. 93 00:06:41.180 --> 00:06:41.680 Yes. 94 00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:45.560 Is also interested in child protection. 95 00:06:46.220 --> 00:06:47.260 How am I going? 96 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:49.440 I've got to check at the end of this. 97 00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:58.420 And is currently part of a team which is undertaking a massive survey of women's health, which is to go forever. 98 00:06:58.680 --> 00:06:59.320 For 20 years. 99 00:06:59.320 --> 00:07:00.340 For 20 years. 100 00:07:00.900 --> 00:07:03.360 Our second speaker, Lois Bryson. 101 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:09.340 Thanks very much, David. 102 00:07:09.460 --> 00:07:17.600 The agenda for women, the gender agenda in relation to women for the 21st century, 103 00:07:17.700 --> 00:07:19.840 I see as being... 104 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:24.360 I see as being much the same agenda that we've had for the past 30 or so years. 105 00:07:25.780 --> 00:07:28.760 Hard and all to achieve the changes... 106 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:33.620 Hard and all as it was to achieve the changes that we've made. 107 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:40.600 It seems to me when I look forward to the 21st century that we might finish up thinking 108 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.240 that achieving those changes have been the easy thing. 109 00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:48.000 Certainly that's how I've been feeling for the last 30 years. 110 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:49.760 What... 111 00:07:50.660 --> 00:08:01.600 Feminist sort of mapped out in the 70s and 80s was the idea that it was terrific what 112 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.500 women were achieving. 113 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:06.680 We were getting formal equal citizenship. 114 00:08:07.140 --> 00:08:08.640 It came gradually. 115 00:08:08.640 --> 00:08:19.040 First the vote, the capacity to get custody of children, the equal pay, the capacity to 116 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:19.840 care. 117 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:20.000 It was a very difficult time. 118 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.440 It was a very difficult time for women to keep your job after maternity leave, at least 119 00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:23.840 for some, and so on. 120 00:08:24.500 --> 00:08:33.780 And these are the formal things, but it's the informal relationship between those formal 121 00:08:33.780 --> 00:08:40.160 citizenship rights and real equality that women have been fighting for. 122 00:08:40.740 --> 00:08:49.380 We've pointed out time and again that the trouble with the independent citizen, the 123 00:08:49.380 --> 00:08:49.840 fully independent citizen, is that the woman is not the only one who is struggling. 124 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.020 The other thing I want to emphasise and I think I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise 125 00:08:54.020 --> 00:08:59.960 and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll 126 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:07.840 emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise 127 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:08.140 and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and 128 00:09:08.140 --> 00:09:09.820 and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll 129 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:10.860 emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and 130 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:11.600 and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll 131 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:12.920 emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and 132 00:09:12.920 --> 00:09:19.680 and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll emphasise and I'll 133 00:09:19.680 --> 00:09:28.260 So what we have is this disjuncture between families which still have this huge hangover 134 00:09:28.260 --> 00:09:40.240 from the days when citizenship was divided by gender as well as other factors, and women 135 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:45.080 had certain roles they were expected to play, men had certain roles they were expected to 136 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:56.260 play, and we haven't really got over the combining of those sorts of roles into a form of equal 137 00:09:56.260 --> 00:10:04.080 citizenship that takes into account individuals' adult's rights and children's rights. 138 00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:15.060 We've really got a society that has no sort of place for even discussing the issues of 139 00:10:15.060 --> 00:10:16.300 gender, and I think that's what we've done in the past. 140 00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:23.580 I think we've moved towards a situation where it's assumed that people can make all these 141 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:29.780 individual decisions about their lives, what the sociologists are now calling, we've moved 142 00:10:29.780 --> 00:10:37.320 away from a sort of traditional ascribed status society to one of individualised citizenship 143 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:43.880 where people have to make their own decisions, yet we're labouring under this hangover from 144 00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:44.520 the past. 145 00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:51.380 So the agenda for the 21st century, what do I want to see? 146 00:10:51.540 --> 00:10:59.380 It seems to me that this individualised citizenship has enormous potential for us achieving what 147 00:10:59.380 --> 00:11:02.100 you might call a true democratic society. 148 00:11:02.680 --> 00:11:10.500 If we treat citizens as individuals with rights, of course, and responsibilities, despite the 149 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:14.500 fact that it's a favourite saying of the Prime Minister's. 150 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:17.880 And it's sometimes loaded in a way I don't like. 151 00:11:17.980 --> 00:11:20.040 I don't really believe in responsibilities. 152 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:26.800 So we've got rights and responsibilities, and it means that all the old prejudices, 153 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:30.700 stereotypes and so on should have no place in that. 154 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:39.340 We should be interacting with all around us in terms of their particular desires and choices 155 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:42.360 in life, providing they don't infringe the rights of others. 156 00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:44.500 And not in terms of the individual's rights. 157 00:11:44.500 --> 00:11:55.220 I mean I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and 158 00:11:55.220 --> 00:11:57.660 I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and 159 00:11:57.660 --> 00:12:02.640 I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and 160 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:03.040 I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and 161 00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:14.480 I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and I feel and 162 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:22.320 A dialogue to go on about family roles that is much more creative, much more expansive, 163 00:12:23.180 --> 00:12:29.180 takes individuals as the starting point who have their own rights to choose, 164 00:12:30.020 --> 00:12:37.980 and we need to hammer out a much better way of dealing with individual relationships between men and women, 165 00:12:38.020 --> 00:12:42.140 particularly in families, with the rights of children right up there. 166 00:12:42.140 --> 00:12:49.200 So, in fact, Ken Dempsey did a study of interaction between husbands and wives, 167 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:55.860 and he made the point that women need to learn how to negotiate more effectively, 168 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:03.720 and it seems to me that's another way of saying that we need to be able to assert individual rights 169 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.980 rather than being seen as locked into gender roles. 170 00:13:08.280 --> 00:13:12.120 So, finally, I want to say... 171 00:13:12.140 --> 00:13:20.660 I want to suggest that the new inquiry that the Prime Minister's just announced into custody issues, 172 00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:28.560 I fear may have been forced onto the political agenda for some really conservative reasons, 173 00:13:28.900 --> 00:13:34.120 but I think that it's a real opportunity, if we can grasp it, 174 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:41.320 to get out into the open all these tough questions that have been put on the agenda for many decades, 175 00:13:42.140 --> 00:13:43.180 and I think that's a really important thing. 176 00:13:43.180 --> 00:13:47.200 But finally, we're getting a situation where men are demanding to be heard, 177 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:56.120 and the interesting thing about the custody issue is that it is possible for fathers to demand their rights as fathers, 178 00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.860 when, in fact, in an individualised society, 179 00:14:00.660 --> 00:14:10.160 a father should be able to negotiate about his rights in terms of his performance as a father, 180 00:14:10.300 --> 00:14:12.120 and those discussions are starting... 181 00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:12.920 are starting to come out. 182 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.100 The judges are saying, if a father hasn't been a father before divorce, 183 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:20.440 why should I be able to see he should be afterwards? 184 00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:28.360 So I think we can suggest that this is a good point in time to actually, perhaps, get on with that agenda 185 00:14:29.140 --> 00:14:37.720 that feminists have been very frustrated about our success in dealing with in the 20th century. 186 00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:38.320 Thanks. 187 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:45.700 Monica Robinson 188 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:45.740 Monica Robinson 189 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:46.040 Monica Robinson 190 00:14:47.180 --> 00:14:48.300 Monica Robinson 191 00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:51.040 Monica Robinson 192 00:14:52.460 --> 00:14:53.580 Monica Robinson 193 00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:57.400 Monica Robinson 194 00:14:57.400 --> 00:14:57.480 Monica Robinson 195 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:57.500 Monica Robinson 196 00:14:57.500 --> 00:14:58.620 Monica Robinson 197 00:15:00.400 --> 00:15:01.440 Monica Robinson 198 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:01.940 Monica Robinson 199 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:02.140 Monica Robinson 200 00:15:02.140 --> 00:15:02.180 Monica Robinson 201 00:15:02.180 --> 00:15:02.480 Monica Robinson 202 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:02.520 Monica Robinson 203 00:15:02.520 --> 00:15:02.580 Monica Robinson 204 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:02.760 Monica Robinson 205 00:15:02.760 --> 00:15:02.780 Monica Robinson 206 00:15:02.780 --> 00:15:02.920 Monica Robinson 207 00:15:02.920 --> 00:15:03.040 Monica Robinson 208 00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:04.380 Monica Robinson 209 00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:05.000 Monica Robinson 210 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:06.180 Monica Robinson 211 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:12.100 Monica Robinson 212 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:16.460 Thank you for your welcome. 213 00:15:17.780 --> 00:15:22.760 In preparation for this panel, I received the following statement. 214 00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:27.040 The panel starts with the assumption, I quote, 215 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:31.000 that in some significant ways and in some parts of the world, 216 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:39.000 the gender agenda of the late 20th century has been highly successful. 217 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:44.380 It cannot merely be more of the same for the 21st century. 218 00:15:45.760 --> 00:15:49.580 At the time when I received these discussion pointers, 219 00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:54.440 I listened in the U.S. to public radio where a debate was raging 220 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.860 on whether the new girl power in high school and colleges 221 00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:06.300 was discriminating against boys who are developing, so was said, more slowly than girls. 222 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:08.640 No mention was made. 223 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.400 The fact is that such high percentage of girls in schools is not matched 224 00:16:13.400 --> 00:16:18.640 by high numbers of women professors or executives in the top echelons 225 00:16:18.640 --> 00:16:21.600 of major corporations or in the medium. 226 00:16:22.060 --> 00:16:26.620 Moreover, this gender discussion showed no awareness that race, class, 227 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:33.600 immigrant status, heterosexuality, and culture may diminish the much-touted gender success. 228 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.820 For instance, an article by Kim Bulmore, which appeared in ISIS, 229 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:43.680 International, points out that Aboriginal women in Australia 230 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:47.240 are often doubly affected by racist politics. 231 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.180 According to a report by the Aboriginal Social Justice Commissioner, Dr. Bill Jonas, 232 00:16:53.480 --> 00:17:01.840 to the UN Human Rights Commission, there was a 233% increase in the number of indigenous women 233 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:06.960 jailed in the first year after the mandatory sentencing law in the Northern Territory 234 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:08.980 was introduced in 1936. 235 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:09.460 The law was passed in 1999. 236 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:16.300 Since this law punishes offenses such as drunkenness, offensive language, and vagrancy, 237 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:22.360 offenses which are disproportionately committed by people caught in the poverty cycle. 238 00:17:23.100 --> 00:17:30.140 In an article entitled, The Excess of Globalization and the Feminization of Survival, 239 00:17:30.580 --> 00:17:37.980 Saskia Sassen furthermore confirms this diagnosis on an international level. 240 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:38.980 She wrote, 241 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:46.120 She shows that the economics of excess linked to global capital market developments is constituted 242 00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:53.800 on the backs of the poor and the powerless, the majority of whom are women and children dependent on women. 243 00:17:54.500 --> 00:18:03.860 It seems that the gender agenda of the 20th century is far from being finished for the majority of women in the world. 244 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.000 In many respects, women are those who have suffered most, 245 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.880 and still do so, from exploitative capitalist globalization. 246 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:22.800 Women's poverty, sexual trafficking, widespread illiteracy, and the loss of basic human rights are the result of global capitalism. 247 00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:27.960 Hence, I would argue that simply to study gender does not suffice. 248 00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:36.980 Rather, such a study needs to remain embedded in a critical feminist analysis of domination and exploitation, for two reasons. 249 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:44.900 First, feminist theories of the two-third world have insisted on the multiplicative intersectionality 250 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:50.360 and top-down structuring of gender, race, class, culture, nation, and religion, 251 00:18:50.620 --> 00:19:00.280 and they have done so at a time when academic feminism has wholeheartedly dedicated itself to a pure gender analysis. 252 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:06.080 Second, the women's liberation movements of the last thirty years or so 253 00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:07.980 did not set out to be the only ones to be 254 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:15.780 able to re-inscribe gender, to study sexual difference and what it means to be a woman in the modern world, 255 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.640 or to redefine femininity. 256 00:19:19.180 --> 00:19:27.980 Rather, we wanted to abolish, reduce, eliminate, or at the very least weaken the sex-gender system. 257 00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:35.400 Moreover, the socio-political context of globalization and its attendant exploitation 258 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:42.120 has engendered a resurgence of the religious right and of global cultural and religious fundamentalisms, 259 00:19:42.340 --> 00:19:50.260 claiming the power of naming and of defining the true nature and essence of religion as well as of women. 260 00:19:51.080 --> 00:19:56.900 Right-wing, well-financed think tanks are supported by reactionary political and financial institutions 261 00:19:56.900 --> 00:20:03.300 that seek to defend Kyriakha capitalism in the name of religion. 262 00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:05.380 The interconnection between the two is a key factor in the development of the world's modern world. 263 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:11.120 The debate between religious anti-democratic arguments and the debate with regard to women's place and role 264 00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:16.860 is not accidental or of merely intra-religious significance. 265 00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:27.840 Yet, the societal white women's movement and women's studies has continued to neglect or to reject religion 266 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:32.040 as totally oppressive and self-alienating to women. 267 00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:40.940 Feminist theories have consistently overlooked feminist struggles to transform religion in all the religions of the world. 268 00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:47.080 All the fundamentalist right-wing movements have made religion again central to public discourse. 269 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:56.500 Since many white feminist scholars still tend to be convinced that religion is the enemy that keeps women in oppressive situations, 270 00:20:57.060 --> 00:21:01.380 they have tended to neglect feminist theologies and studies in religion. 271 00:21:02.040 --> 00:21:08.400 Religion has been seen solely as patriarchal and repressive, but not as an area of struggle. 272 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:16.800 In contrast, the law, education, and politics have not been abandoned as sites of feminist struggles, 273 00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:21.480 although their oppressive character also has been recognized. 274 00:21:22.600 --> 00:21:31.100 However, this recognition has spurred feminists not only to criticize, but also to reform and transform these cultural discourses. 275 00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:37.300 Since feminist theoretical work in religion has had very little impact on feminist theories and strategies, 276 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:45.400 we have not been able to articulate bodies of knowledge and strategies of solidarity for successfully counteracting 277 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.840 the impact of religious fundamentalism on society, politics, and the law. 278 00:21:50.340 --> 00:21:58.020 Hence, feminists are not able to cause a ripple effect of change and to strengthen the powers of resistance and renewal. 279 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:02.020 Nor are we able to support feminist struggles with the law. 280 00:22:02.040 --> 00:22:08.180 We have to support the use of religious resources that have inspired and shaped visions of justice and hope throughout the centuries. 281 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:19.460 One of the main feminist tasks in the 21st century, I suggest, will therefore be to forge an alliance between feminists working with grassroots women, 282 00:22:20.020 --> 00:22:23.380 feminists in the academy, and feminists in religion. 283 00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:24.240 I thank you. 284 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.180 Elizabeth, please don't go home. 285 00:22:34.420 --> 00:22:37.320 There is an awful lot of work to do here. 286 00:22:38.020 --> 00:22:39.900 And it's all in your territory. 287 00:22:40.860 --> 00:22:47.500 Moira Rayner is on leave this weekend from her position in Western Australia as the Anti-Corruption Commissioner. 288 00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:51.940 She's also, of course, familiar from television, from books, from newspapers. 289 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.480 And Moira Rayner. 290 00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:57.060 I just want to thank you. 291 00:22:57.060 --> 00:22:57.820 Thank you. 292 00:22:57.900 --> 00:22:58.980 Thank you. 293 00:22:58.980 --> 00:22:59.380 Thank you. 294 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:00.380 Thank you. 295 00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:01.400 Thank you. 296 00:23:02.040 --> 00:23:02.680 Excuse me. 297 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:03.600 Excuse me. 298 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:04.480 Excuse me. 299 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:05.680 Excuse me. 300 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:09.040 Excuse me. 301 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:10.780 Excuse me. 302 00:23:13.760 --> 00:23:15.120 Excuse me. 303 00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:18.020 Excuse me. 304 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:19.300 Excuse me. 305 00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:19.600 Excuse me. 306 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:20.200 Excuse me. 307 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:20.240 Excuse me. 308 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:20.660 Excuse me. 309 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:21.380 Excuse me. 310 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:21.840 Excuse me. 311 00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:21.980 Excuse me. 312 00:23:25.360 --> 00:23:26.580 Excuse me. 313 00:23:32.040 --> 00:23:37.700 like to say that I haven't written a speech on Mayor Culper, but I have got some notes 314 00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:44.260 from some work I'm doing principally as an author of the first biography of Joan Kerner, 315 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:50.420 who's one of the first women, along with Carmen Lawrence of Western Australia, to be the Premier 316 00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:56.780 of a state, and a woman politician who explicitly said she was going to do politics differently 317 00:23:56.780 --> 00:24:02.880 as a woman. My efforts are to see whether, in fact, that makes any difference, positive 318 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.060 or negative. 319 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:11.220 The third thing I want to say is that the gender issue is not just about women. I'm 320 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:18.060 the daughter of a feminist father. I chose to do law because he said it was a tremendously 321 00:24:18.060 --> 00:24:23.280 important thing for women to do to help to structure society and, importantly from his 322 00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:26.300 point of view, to look after themselves. 323 00:24:26.780 --> 00:24:38.100 He thought that because of the wretched suffering of his widowed mother, which left him as a 324 00:24:38.100 --> 00:24:42.980 young man orphaned and having to help raise his brothers and sisters. 325 00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:51.000 What I want to say is something about my real field of expertise, not anti-corruption, though 326 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.680 I'm the first woman to be an anti-corruption commissioner in Western Australia, which may 327 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.760 be one of the reasons we're about to be abolished. I've been a member of the Commission for the 328 00:24:56.420 --> 00:24:56.580 ! 329 00:25:04.020 --> 00:25:06.780 Anti-Corruption and Human Rights Law. 330 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.180 I was an equal opportunity commissioner in Victoria and the acting equal opportunity 331 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.260 commissioner in Western Australia. 332 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:19.760 The thing that I've found about anti-discrimination law is maybe it ought to be ditched. 333 00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:23.520 You like that one? 334 00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:26.760 We need to do something about the gender issue. 335 00:25:26.760 --> 00:25:30.900 The ease with which we use the language of equal opportunity and the facility with which 336 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:31.680 we undermine it. 337 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:38.520 We've had anti-discrimination laws really since the 1960s South Australia led the way. 338 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:44.660 And we're very comfortable with equal opportunity, the language of sexual harassment, the saying 339 00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:49.800 we shouldn't discriminate on the grounds particularly of gender, but more recently of sexuality, 340 00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:54.620 transgender and other issues about gender identity. 341 00:25:54.620 --> 00:25:59.840 But two things have happened and I think we should be talking about it honestly. 342 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.320 One is that we have slipped into oppositionalism. 343 00:26:04.780 --> 00:26:10.040 That is whenever you set up a special program for women there is a knee-jerk response that 344 00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:13.460 there ought to be an equal and an absolutely identical program for men. 345 00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:19.300 Just to put that in context as the equal opportunity commissioner last year, public knowledge, 346 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.060 I'm not breaking any confidence, I received a complaint from a group of, or several groups, 347 00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:29.180 of men demanding that they should have access to women's domestic violence programs. 348 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:35.960 Now the argument they put about men being subjects of violence in the home was a perfectly 349 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:36.900 legitimate argument. 350 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:42.340 But the way in which it was put that it should be access on equal terms to the same programs 351 00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:43.420 was nuts. 352 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:52.580 We actually have to address the issue of meeting the needs of people without assuming that 353 00:26:52.580 --> 00:26:54.040 giving rights or recognising them. 354 00:26:54.060 --> 00:26:59.000 Recognising the rights of one particular group means that you are cutting out a slice 355 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:04.100 of a finite cake and that there will be less rights for those others. 356 00:27:06.060 --> 00:27:12.120 I rather irreverently called it, that particular demand was not tit for tat but tat for tit. 357 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:18.460 They were actually asking, what they were demanding was inappropriate in the way it 358 00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:23.400 was put, not that there shouldn't be programs for men and boys who are the subject of violence. 359 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:24.040 So I think that's a good point. 360 00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:25.880 We have to make sure that we have a fair and fair debate in intimate relationships because 361 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:26.860 they undoubtedly exist. 362 00:27:28.260 --> 00:27:32.860 The other thing that I have already mentioned is the lip service issue. 363 00:27:33.060 --> 00:27:33.880 It's a huge one. 364 00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:40.740 And just to give a couple of examples, I will refer to what courts and lawyers do because 365 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:46.020 I'm a lawyer and say it just shows how infinite is our appetite for hypocrisy. 366 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:52.320 In 1998, the Victorian Bar issued a report on discrimination against women barristers. 367 00:27:53.040 --> 00:27:56.580 Everyone beat their breasts, promised to do a great deal more. 368 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.100 Programs were set up, committees indeed were set up, 369 00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:05.240 and promises were made that change would be dramatic. 370 00:28:05.780 --> 00:28:08.680 Well, the dramatic change that occurred 371 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:14.480 was that the new Attorney-General of Victoria, Mr Hulls, 372 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.200 has made a point of advertising on the basis of equality 373 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.380 plus the encouraging excluded groups, 374 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.100 made many judicial and other senior legal appointments of women, 375 00:28:26.280 --> 00:28:30.580 in other words, not relying on the nods, winks and here's a good chap networks, 376 00:28:31.540 --> 00:28:33.980 but that, as it was reported just two days ago, 377 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.380 women barristers are less often seen in superior courts. 378 00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:43.480 In other words, the profession still doesn't brief women in those jobs 379 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.440 because, well, I can tell you why, 380 00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:48.180 because the people doing... 381 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.120 doing the briefing decisions don't feel comfortable with women. 382 00:28:51.320 --> 00:28:54.160 They do feel comfortable with people just like them. 383 00:28:54.520 --> 00:28:57.520 And I'm not even saying that judgmentally, that's how things are. 384 00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:59.960 We're always comfortable with people like us. 385 00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:04.900 My point is that we haven't achieved the cultural change 386 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.960 that we all thought we would 387 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.980 when human rights laws first made their appearance in Australia 388 00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:16.080 in the form of equal opportunity laws in the 1970s. 389 00:29:16.100 --> 00:29:17.700 What we've done is learned 390 00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:19.540 not to use the language, 391 00:29:19.860 --> 00:29:23.100 but to mask the outcome in optimism 392 00:29:23.100 --> 00:29:25.880 that it'll all work out in the end. 393 00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:31.080 My final point is this. 394 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:37.040 Laws about equal opportunity are a very important thing. 395 00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:38.820 It's the only way in which, in Australia, 396 00:29:39.020 --> 00:29:43.660 we actually implement any part of our international human rights obligations. 397 00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:47.680 And it makes the whole structure... 398 00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:50.400 the structure of society at least talk about rights, responsibilities 399 00:29:51.020 --> 00:29:55.440 and the effect of decisions on disadvantaged and excluded groups, 400 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.000 historically or presently at the moment. 401 00:29:58.360 --> 00:30:00.240