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<v Derek Abbott>Good afternoon. Greetings to this session on extraterrestrial life in the Festival of Ideas.

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<v Derek Abbott>My name's Derek Abbott. I'm based here at Adelaide Uni in the Electrical Engineering Department just here.

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<v Derek Abbott>I'm also Director of the Centre for Biomedical Engineering, and it's my pleasure to chair today's session.

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<v Derek Abbott>So I'd like to begin by introducing our speaker, Seth Shostak.

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<v Derek Abbott>A little bit about Seth. He's got his BA in Physics from Princeton University in the USA.

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<v Derek Abbott>He then went on and did a PhD in Astronomy at Caltech in California, and he now works at the SETI Institute in California.

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<v Derek Abbott>SETI, for those of you who don't know what that stands for, stands for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

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<v Derek Abbott>Did I get that right?

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<v Derek Abbott>So there's...

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<v Derek Abbott>He's searching for intelligent life forms out in the universe.

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<v Derek Abbott>SETI is based in Mountain View in California, and Seth tells me that's right next door to Google, the people that do the search engines.

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<v Derek Abbott>So Seth's little joke is that there are now two search engines in Mountain View, California.

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<v Derek Abbott>Seth was also... It's not Seth's first time to Adelaide. He's been here before.

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<v Derek Abbott>In fact, he was here...

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<v Derek Abbott>Just this last December.

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<v Derek Abbott>And he went through Adelaide to Roxby Downs to watch the solar eclipse that was this December.

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<v Derek Abbott>And the photograph he took of the solar eclipse at Roxby Downs was actually ran in the New York Times.

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<v Derek Abbott>So the photographer that did the most...

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<v Derek Abbott>Got the photograph with the best coverage of Roxby Downs.

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<v Derek Abbott>In the world was this guy here.

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<v Derek Abbott>So that's one of his claims to fame.

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<v Derek Abbott>Also, another interesting connection he has with Australia is that...

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<v Derek Abbott>I don't know how many of you have watched the movie The Dish.

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<v Derek Abbott>For those of you who haven't seen the Australian movie The Dish, I recommend you go out and get the video today.

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<v Derek Abbott>It's about...

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<v Derek Abbott>It's a short...

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<v Derek Abbott>It's a film about the Australian radio astronomy dish that is in the park.

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<v Derek Abbott>It's called the Park's Observatory.

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<v Derek Abbott>And so it's a very famous movie.

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<v Derek Abbott>And Seth actually worked there in 1995 for a couple of months.

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<v Derek Abbott>So that's another connection he has with Australia.

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<v Derek Abbott>But I think I want to...

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<v Derek Abbott>I'm dying to hear his talk about extraterrestrials.

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<v Derek Abbott>So without further to do, can we put our hands together for him?

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<v Seth Shostak>You might want to tell him about the baby phone down here.

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<v Seth Shostak>There are all sorts of baby sounds coming out.

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<v Seth Shostak>Thank you very much, Derek, for a very flattering introduction.

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<v Seth Shostak>In fact, it reminds me of a comment made by Einstein.

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<v Seth Shostak>Not that I should compare myself to Einstein.

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<v Seth Shostak>At some point, which he said,

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<v Seth Shostak>Would it be a shame if the packaging were better than the meat?

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<v Seth Shostak>Anyhow, I'm told that you all have to be out of here by 5.30.

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<v Seth Shostak>So what I thought I would do is talk to you a little bit about why we think the aliens may be out there.

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<v Seth Shostak>How we're looking for them.

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<v Seth Shostak>What they might be like.

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<v Seth Shostak>In case you run across any in downtown Adelaide.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the title of the talk, of course,

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<v Seth Shostak>What it would mean to you, the car buyer, if we were to find them.

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<v Seth Shostak>And then I hope to open this up for questions so you can grill me like a cheese sandwich at the end.

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<v Seth Shostak>And ask all those questions you know that I am deliberately not dealing with.

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<v Seth Shostak>Dave's working on the AV here.

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<v Speaker 3>There you go.

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<v Speaker 3>Alright.

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<v Seth Shostak>Not too bad.

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<v Seth Shostak>I might say, by the way, that although Derek mentioned some of my connection to Australia,

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<v Seth Shostak>I should say that in some sense there's a far deeper connection to Australia.

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<v Seth Shostak>Because I don't know how many of you realize this,

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<v Seth Shostak>but Australia is one of the three or four countries in the forefront of the development of science,

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<v Seth Shostak>the science of radio astronomy.

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<v Seth Shostak>When I was a grad student at Caltech, in fact,

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<v Seth Shostak>the director of the Owens Valley Radio Observatory was an Australian, Gordon Stanley.

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<v Seth Shostak>But that observatory was actually built by the fellow who built the dish at Parkes, John Bolton.

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<v Seth Shostak>Another Australian.

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<v Seth Shostak>The Australians were, as I say, in the forefront of both building new equipment for this science

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<v Seth Shostak>and making the earliest and important scientific discoveries.

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<v Seth Shostak>So you have well reason to be proud of that.

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<v Seth Shostak>In any case, what happens when we find the aliens?

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<v Seth Shostak>Alright.

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<v Seth Shostak>The first question I would ask is, why do we think they're out there?

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<v Seth Shostak>Here you see them waiting for the bus.

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<v Seth Shostak>How many of you think that there are aliens out there?

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<v Seth Shostak>I'm just sort of curious.

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<v Seth Shostak>Because I know what the answer would be in the States, but I don't know here.

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<v Seth Shostak>And how many of you think, well, probably not?

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<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, that's interesting.

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<v Seth Shostak>That's maybe a fifth of the audience.

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<v Seth Shostak>You're the people I want to talk to later, of course.

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<v Seth Shostak>If you were to grab the next ten astronomers off the street of Adelaide,

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<v Seth Shostak>not a good idea, but if you were to do that and ask them,

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<v Seth Shostak>do you think that there might be aliens out there?

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<v Seth Shostak>I suspect nine out of ten would say yes.

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<v Seth Shostak>And they would say that not on the basis of personal experience,

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<v Seth Shostak>because there are no personal experiences.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, there are plenty of personal experiences, but I'm not sure.

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<v Seth Shostak>They have anything to do with aliens.

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<v Seth Shostak>We'll get back to that.

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<v Seth Shostak>But they would say that on the basis of the fact, fundamentally,

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<v Seth Shostak>that the universe is quite vast.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a picture of the night sky seen from downtown here during a rolling power blackout.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you can see the pointers and so on.

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<v Seth Shostak>I mean, obviously, with your eye, you can see several hundreds of nearby stars on a clear night.

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<v Seth Shostak>With a pair of binoculars, you can see thousands more.

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<v Seth Shostak>All of these stars, of course, are in our galaxy.

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<v Seth Shostak>I think enough of you know some elementary astronomy to be aware that,

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<v Seth Shostak>our galaxy is replete with stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>We have on the order of three or four hundred billion stars in our galaxy.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it turns out that roughly one in ten of those is very much like the sun,

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<v Seth Shostak>in terms of brightness and size and any other property you care to name.

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<v Seth Shostak>So, you know, we're one of forty or fifty billion stars like the sun in our galaxy.

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<v Seth Shostak>That's a big number, and that's not the end of the story, although you may wish that.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a photo made by the Hubble Space Telescope about four or five years ago.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it's an unremarkable part of the sky.

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<v Seth Shostak>It's just a bit of the sky near the Big Dipper in the Northern Hemisphere.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it's actually a very small part of the sky.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a bit of sky that you could cover up with a pinhead held at arm's length.

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<v Seth Shostak>All they did was expose the camera for about a hundred hours or something like that,

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<v Seth Shostak>and record very faint stuff.

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<v Seth Shostak>And there's some nearby stars here.

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<v Seth Shostak>You can see that spiky thing on the right and the left.

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<v Seth Shostak>Those are nearby stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>But those are the only stars, individual stars, in this picture.

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<v Seth Shostak>Everything else in this photo,

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<v Seth Shostak>is a galaxy.

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<v Seth Shostak>Those blobby things are all galaxies, each with several hundred billion stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>And of course there are a bunch of big blobs there,

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<v Seth Shostak>but there are also lots of small things here.

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<v Seth Shostak>These little guys, they're galaxies too.

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<v Seth Shostak>They're just farther away.

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<v Seth Shostak>Now, if you were to take photos like this across the entire sky,

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<v Seth Shostak>something for which the federal budget for NASA is not adequate,

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<v Seth Shostak>but if you were to do that,

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<v Seth Shostak>you would count approximately a hundred billion galaxies.

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<v Seth Shostak>Each with several hundred billion stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>So, you all being clever people,

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<v Seth Shostak>I'm sure you've multiplied those two numbers together in your head,

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<v Seth Shostak>perhaps on the back of the shirt of the guy in front of you.

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<v Seth Shostak>And that turns out to be a number that's 10,000 billion billion stars in the visible universe.

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<v Seth Shostak>And that may be a number that you don't use too often, except at tax time,

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<v Seth Shostak>but in fact, that is more stars visible to our telescopes

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<v Seth Shostak>than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of Australia.

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<v Seth Shostak>So, for the one out of five of you,

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<v Seth Shostak>in here who think, well, this is the only grain of sand

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<v Seth Shostak>where something interesting is happening,

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<v Seth Shostak>you have to say that's an audacious point of view, right?

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<v Seth Shostak>That would make you very special.

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<v Seth Shostak>And I know you think you're special, but you know.

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<v Seth Shostak>All right, well, let's look at this a little bit more carefully.

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<v Seth Shostak>Just because there are literally 10,000 billion billion stars in the universe,

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<v Seth Shostak>in the visible universe,

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<v Seth Shostak>there's much more to the universe than what we can see, of course.

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<v Seth Shostak>How many of those stars actually have planets?

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<v Seth Shostak>Because it's not good enough just to have a lot of stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>Life won't cook up on stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>Entirely too toasty.

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<v Seth Shostak>Now, it was thought for many years,

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<v Seth Shostak>at least for the last, oh, 30 or 40 years,

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<v Seth Shostak>that every time you made a star,

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<v Seth Shostak>you would have leftover crud,

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<v Seth Shostak>that's the technical term,

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<v Seth Shostak>that you would turn into planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>Okay, as you see in this simulation here.

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<v Seth Shostak>But that's theory.

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<v Seth Shostak>And in astronomy, theory doesn't count for very much,

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<v Seth Shostak>because astronomy has a very long history of being an observational science.

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<v Seth Shostak>So, you know, the theoreticians are generally ignored.

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<v Seth Shostak>They say, tell me something that I can prove by looking through the telescope.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, the theoreticians are saying,

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<v Seth Shostak>well, there ought to be a lot of planets out there.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you might think, well, okay, we could easily prove that.

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<v Seth Shostak>We'll just take the Hubble telescope

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<v Seth Shostak>and aim it at some nearby stars

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<v Seth Shostak>and see if there are any planets around them.

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<v Seth Shostak>Good idea, but it doesn't work.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the reason it doesn't work is that planets are dim,

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<v Seth Shostak>kind of like my neighbors,

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<v Seth Shostak>and they're rather close to the stars that they orbit,

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<v Seth Shostak>so they're very difficult to find.

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<v Seth Shostak>They're like trying to find a moth

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<v Seth Shostak>circling a Hollywood searchlight from 10,000 miles away.

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<v Seth Shostak>Very difficult to do.

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<v Seth Shostak>And in fact, no planets had been found as recently as 1995.

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<v Seth Shostak>And then the story changed.

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<v Seth Shostak>It changed because astronomers figured out a way to find the planets

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<v Seth Shostak>without actually seeing them.

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<v Seth Shostak>You see there in the little animation a big planet going around a star.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the important thing is that the star doesn't just sit there

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<v Seth Shostak>while the planet nicely orbits it in some sort of elliptical orbit.

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<v Seth Shostak>The star dances too because of the motion of the planet.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it turns out that dance of the star is actually rather easier to find

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<v Seth Shostak>than the planet itself.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you see behind here some data.

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<v Seth Shostak>They say every time you show a plot like this you lose 10% of the audience.

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<v Seth Shostak>I have 12.

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<v Seth Shostak>So, in any case...

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<v Seth Shostak>But what you see here is just plotted the dance of a star

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<v Seth Shostak>by the name of 51 Pegasi,

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<v Seth Shostak>just a nearby star 40 or 50 light years away.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you see it comes at you at about what?

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<v Seth Shostak>50 meters a second.

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<v Seth Shostak>That's the speed at which you might drive your BMW down the Hume Highway

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<v Seth Shostak>on your way to Sydney or something for two days.

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<v Seth Shostak>And then it moves away from you at 50 meters per second.

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<v Seth Shostak>Then it comes toward you and moves away from you.

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<v Seth Shostak>It's dancing.

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<v Derek Abbott>It's dancing.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it's dancing because there's a planet going around it.

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<v Seth Shostak>So this was the first case in which they found a dancing star implying planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>We now know of something like 110 of these.

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<v Seth Shostak>And every couple of weeks there are a few more.

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<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>In fact, the bottom line is that at least one in the world

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<v Seth Shostak>12% of the stars that we look at seem to have planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>One in eight.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the real percentage could be three in eight or seven in eight

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<v Seth Shostak>or maybe even eight in eight.

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<v Seth Shostak>We don't know because our instruments aren't adequate to find the smaller planets,

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<v Seth Shostak>the ones that are farther out.

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<v Seth Shostak>About a third of these are big guys.

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<v Seth Shostak>They're very big planets as you see here.

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<v Seth Shostak>A planet maybe the size of Jupiter very close into its star.

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<v Seth Shostak>Those are the so-called hot Jupiter planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>As I say, they constitute about a third of all that have been found.

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<v Seth Shostak>But it turns out that the instruments used

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<v Seth Shostak>to find these are better at finding those kinds of things.

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<v Seth Shostak>Those aren't the kind of planets E.T. would like to hang out on, by the way.

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<v Seth Shostak>Those of you who remember any high school physics can work out

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<v Seth Shostak>that the daytime temperatures on a planet like that are around 1,000 degrees.

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<v Seth Shostak>I don't remember whether that's centigrade or Fahrenheit,

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<v Seth Shostak>but when it's 1,000 degrees, what do you care?

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<v Seth Shostak>So that's, you know, obviously nothing's going to be living there.

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<v Seth Shostak>But where there are big planets, there might be small planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you might keep this mission in mind, the Kepler mission.

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<v Seth Shostak>This will be flown by NASA in the year 2000.

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<v Seth Shostak>And then in 2007, which lamentably isn't very far off,

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<v Seth Shostak>and that telescope will be able to find small planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>Planets the size of the Earth, the size of Mars,

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<v Seth Shostak>maybe even smaller, around other stars.

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<v Seth Shostak>This will be the first and only time in human history

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<v Seth Shostak>where we will do an inventory of the planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>When we will finally find what is the population of planets in the universe.

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<v Seth Shostak>This will all happen within your lifetime, of course.

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<v Seth Shostak>So this is kind of interesting stuff.

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<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, the bottom line of all that is that,

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<v Seth Shostak>it seems that planets are not particularly rare.

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<v Seth Shostak>So that's good news.

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<v Seth Shostak>But of course you need more than planets.

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<v Seth Shostak>You need life, if you're going to look for ET.

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<v Seth Shostak>And here you have life made out of ping pong balls and sticks.

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<v Seth Shostak>The question is, just because you have a lot of planets,

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<v Seth Shostak>a lot of planets cooking up primordial soup,

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<v Seth Shostak>which, by the way, was not a winner for Campbell's.

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<v Seth Shostak>They withdrew this thing.

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<v Seth Shostak>But in any case, you know, how many of them are going to cook up life, right?

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<v Seth Shostak>I mean, Fred Hoyle in Britain said,

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<v Seth Shostak>well, the chances that you'll cook up DNA

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<v Seth Shostak>just because you got a planet boiling away on its primordial soup

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<v Seth Shostak>is about the same as the chances that a tornado

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<v Seth Shostak>roaring through a junkyard would assemble a 747.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it turns out that that doesn't happen often.

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<v Seth Shostak>So what he was saying was that, you know, this isn't very likely.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, not so clear.

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<v Seth Shostak>We could answer that question in one of two ways.

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<v Seth Shostak>Either we could finally try and understand,

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<v Seth Shostak>or we finally could understand how life got started,

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<v Seth Shostak>on Earth, something we still don't understand, by the way,

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<v Seth Shostak>but there's a lot of research done into that.

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<v Seth Shostak>If we could finally figure out how life got started on Earth,

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<v Seth Shostak>and if it were to turn out that that's a process that looks fairly commonplace,

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<v Seth Shostak>then we would expect that life would appear on similar planets elsewhere.

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<v Seth Shostak>The other way to find out whether life is common or not is to look for it.

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<v Seth Shostak>If we could find any kind of life anywhere else,

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<v Seth Shostak>not necessarily intelligent life, but some sort of pond scum, right,

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<v Seth Shostak>then perhaps that would tell you right away that,

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<v Seth Shostak>you know, that biology is fairly common.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, the obvious place to look is Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>People have been looking at Mars for a long time.

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<v Seth Shostak>In fact, this fellow, this is William Herschel,

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<v Seth Shostak>who was the organist at the Octagon Cathedral in Bath a couple of centuries ago.

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<v Seth Shostak>But he turned out to be King George Mad,

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<v Seth Shostak>King George's astronomer, after he gave up playing the organ there.

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<v Seth Shostak>He studied Mars, and he could see that Mars had these polar caps

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<v Seth Shostak>and these dark markings and so forth.

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<v Seth Shostak>He thought that Mars looked a lot like Earth,

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<v Seth Shostak>and he figured there might be Martians.

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<v Seth Shostak>That idea got a lot of credence in the 19th century,

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<v Seth Shostak>particularly thanks to this fellow.

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<v Seth Shostak>And he's probably not so well known here, but this is Percival Lowell.

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<v Seth Shostak>And he was born into a very wealthy Boston family in the 19th century.

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<v Seth Shostak>He didn't really have to worry about what he was going to do when he grew up,

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<v Seth Shostak>because he didn't have to do anything.

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<v Seth Shostak>But he was interested in astronomy,

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<v Seth Shostak>and he went to Harvard, got a degree in mathematics.

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<v Seth Shostak>He was a very clever guy, actually. He was a very smart guy.

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<v Seth Shostak>And rather than taking a degree in astronomy,

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<v Seth Shostak>he took a job in a fourth-rate university, hoping to get tenure after that.

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<v Seth Shostak>He said, to heck with that. I'll just build my own observatory.

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<v Seth Shostak>We've got the money. So he did.

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<v Seth Shostak>He built it in Flagstaff, Arizona,

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<v Seth Shostak>where people told him the atmosphere was nice and stable,

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<v Seth Shostak>so he would have good seeing.

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<v Seth Shostak>And he modestly named this edifice the Lowell Observatory.

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<v Seth Shostak>And spent many years using a telescope there to study Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>And in particular, he claimed that he could see thin, straight lines

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<v Seth Shostak>crisscrossing the Martian surface.

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<v Seth Shostak>The canals of Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>Now, he believed in these canals till his death in 1916.

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<v Seth Shostak>He mapped about 400 of them.

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<v Seth Shostak>You might wonder, by the way, why the Martians were engaged in all this civil engineering.

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<v Seth Shostak>Why they didn't invent railroads.

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<v Seth Shostak>But it turns out that Lowell had an answer to that.

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<v Seth Shostak>He said, look, Mars is a dying, drying planet.

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<v Seth Shostak>It's going bad.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the Martians, and he had no doubt there were Martians,

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<v Seth Shostak>the Martians are compelled to dig these canals.

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<v Seth Shostak>To bring water from the polar caps down to the equatorial regions

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<v Seth Shostak>where they would grow their Brussels sprouts or whatever else it was that they chowed down on.

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<v Seth Shostak>He wrote this up in a series of books.

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<v Seth Shostak>He was a good writer in addition to everything else.

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<v Seth Shostak>And the public believed it.

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<v Seth Shostak>And so here, the baby phone still works.

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<v Seth Shostak>I'm not quite sure what the deal is.

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<v Seth Shostak>Of course, in 1900, where was I? It doesn't matter.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>In 1900, of course, you would put on a suit and a tie to sit alone all night in a dark dome,

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<v Seth Shostak>you know, looking at Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>I say that because of what I've done here.

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<v Seth Shostak>But in fact, and he married rather late in life.

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<v Seth Shostak>He married at the age of 53 some woman, Constance.

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<v Seth Shostak>She was 14 or something.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>And she apparently didn't find this all that interesting, so she remained back in Boston.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>We don't have any photos of what she was doing in the evening, but presumably not this.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>This would have been astounding if it were true, but it's not true.

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<v Seth Shostak>These were all optical illusions.

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<v Seth Shostak>In fact, this is what Mars really looks like.

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<v Seth Shostak>And when photos like this were shown to Lyndon Johnson, U.S. President, in the 1960s,

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<v Seth Shostak>when NASA first had good photos of Mars, his first reaction was,

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<v Seth Shostak>but where are the canals?

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>Which is kind of a tribute to American science education.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>There are no canals on Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>But the interesting and almost ironic fact is that there once was water on the surface of Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>There's no doubt about it.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a recent photo made of Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>You see some old craters here, but you see that they have been streamlined, made tear-shaped,

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<v Seth Shostak>by the motion of some sort of liquid coming from the upper left to the lower right in this photo here.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a photo made in the last month or two.

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<v Seth Shostak>Here's another one.

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<v Seth Shostak>You can see sort of a ridge of mountains there, again running from upper left to lower right,

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<v Seth Shostak>and places where what looks like a lake or an ocean on the right-hand side broke through,

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<v Seth Shostak>and eroded these gullies through there.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>Clearly, there was a time when Mars was a kinder, gentler world, and perhaps, indeed, supported life.

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<v Seth Shostak>Well, that idea, of course, gained a lot of notoriety in 1996 when this rock,

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<v Seth Shostak>which has the sexy name ALH84001, was found in Antarctica.

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<v Seth Shostak>It's a rock about this size, and it comes from Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>There's no doubt about that. That's not controversial.

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<v Seth Shostak>In fact, there's a little plate on the bottom that says, Made in Mars.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>You know, this comes from Mars, on the basis of the composition, for those who really care.

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<v Seth Shostak>So this is a piece of Mars that was kicked off the red planet, you know, 13 million years ago,

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<v Seth Shostak>came to Earth, and we can analyze it.

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<v Seth Shostak>And it has been analyzed, and as you may recall from that big science news story of 1996,

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<v Seth Shostak>it was the biggest science news story of 1996,

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<v Seth Shostak>the claim of some NASA scientists and a guy at Stanford was that inside this rock were Martians.

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<v Seth Shostak>Like little Rodney here.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>The claim is that little Rodney is a Martian, or was a Martian, three and a half billion years ago.

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<v Seth Shostak>He's kind of fossilized now.

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<v Seth Shostak>Now, this would be astoundingly interesting and important.

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<v Seth Shostak>And you might wonder why that would be, because little Rodney, clearly, even if he were alive,

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<v Seth Shostak>would probably not hold up his side of the conversation very well.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>Look, if this is the best Mars can do, I don't need to have any feelings with it.

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<v Seth Shostak>But that's, in fact, rather myopic, because, in fact, if Mars had life,

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<v Seth Shostak>even very simple single-celled life, like you would see in this microscope photo here,

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<v Seth Shostak>that would tell you in an instant that life is not a miracle.

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<v Seth Shostak>Life is just a statistic.

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<v Seth Shostak>Life, biology, is as common as phone poles, right?

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<v Seth Shostak>Because if the next planet out had life, then there's going to be life everywhere.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>So this is an important thing to know.

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<v Seth Shostak>Unfortunately, this is very contentious evidence,

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<v Seth Shostak>and most people don't believe that little Rodney here is alive, ever was alive, is a fossil of any sort.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>So the jury's still out on this.

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<v Seth Shostak>But here's another argument that might suggest that life is very common.

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<v Seth Shostak>This is a picture of Adelaide made four billion years ago,

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<v Seth Shostak>when it was more of a happening place.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>I want to say that the crew here said be sure to insult the audience.

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<v Seth Shostak>They like that.

393
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<v Seth Shostak>.

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<v Seth Shostak>I don't know why you would like it, but okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>All right.

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<v Seth Shostak>So this is the way the Earth looked four billion years ago,

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<v Seth Shostak>when all these leftover rocks were still present.

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<v Seth Shostak>They were still pummeling all the planets of the solar system.

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<v Seth Shostak>But this stopped about three...

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<v Seth Shostak>Those of you who remember the papers,

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<v Seth Shostak>this stopped about 3.8 billion years ago.

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<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

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<v Seth Shostak>All the rocks were used up.

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<v Seth Shostak>Now the interesting thing is that the oldest fossils that we found,

405
00:20:13.180 --> 00:20:14.520
<v Seth Shostak>mostly here in Australia, by the way,

406
00:20:15.360 --> 00:20:17.140
<v Seth Shostak>up in the northwest corner,

407
00:20:17.300 --> 00:20:19.920
<v Seth Shostak>are about 3.6 billion years old.

408
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.160
<v Seth Shostak>This bombardment stopped about 3.8 billion years ago.

409
00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:25.340
<v Seth Shostak>So the point is this.

410
00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:28.940
<v Seth Shostak>As soon as the Earth became habitable, there was life.

411
00:20:29.860 --> 00:20:30.220
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

412
00:20:30.340 --> 00:20:32.320
<v Seth Shostak>So it didn't take nature very long to produce life.

413
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.720
<v Seth Shostak>And that suggests that it must be very easy to get started

414
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:36.500
<v Seth Shostak>because this experiment didn't take very long.

415
00:20:37.520 --> 00:20:37.880
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

416
00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:40.320
<v Seth Shostak>It's kind of an indirect argument, but I think it's a fairly strong one.

417
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.720
<v Seth Shostak>So that suggests that biology may not be so hard to find either.

418
00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:47.060
<v Seth Shostak>So on the basis of, admittedly, incomplete knowledge,

419
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:48.320
<v Seth Shostak>it sounds like, okay, there are a lot of stars,

420
00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:49.100
<v Seth Shostak>there are a lot of planets.

421
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.080
<v Seth Shostak>Some of those planets will be like Earth with some liquid water.

422
00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:53.460
<v Seth Shostak>And biology may not be very difficult to get going.

423
00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:58.820
<v Seth Shostak>Still not good enough for ET because for ET we require intelligent life.

424
00:20:59.840 --> 00:21:02.740
<v Seth Shostak>And you may, particularly after this conference, wonder what that is.

425
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.840
<v Seth Shostak>But for those of us in the SETI biz,

426
00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:09.000
<v Seth Shostak>there's a very simple definition of what's meant by intelligence.

427
00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:12.520
<v Seth Shostak>If you can build a radio transmitter, you're intelligent.

428
00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:14.220
<v Seth Shostak>Because then we can detect you, you see.

429
00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:16.620
<v Seth Shostak>So you should ask the person sitting next to you,

430
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.820
<v Seth Shostak>hey, can you build a radio transmitter?

431
00:21:18.860 --> 00:21:21.200
<v Seth Shostak>You can judge them accordingly the rest of the weekend.

432
00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:21.780
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

433
00:21:22.580 --> 00:21:26.640
<v Seth Shostak>So now the question becomes, okay, just because I give you a few million planets with biology

434
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:28.800
<v Seth Shostak>and let them sit there for a few million years,

435
00:21:28.820 --> 00:21:32.480
<v Seth Shostak>how many of them are ever going to produce a guy like this, right,

436
00:21:32.580 --> 00:21:35.760
<v Seth Shostak>who 30,000 years after this photo was taken was building a radio transmitter?

437
00:21:37.580 --> 00:21:41.220
<v Seth Shostak>And you can tell he's intelligent because he's about to add some RAM to his computer there, I guess.

438
00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:41.940
<v Seth Shostak>All right.

439
00:21:44.360 --> 00:21:46.880
<v Seth Shostak>Now, it turns out that of all the things I say here,

440
00:21:47.020 --> 00:21:49.400
<v Seth Shostak>this is probably the most contentious issue.

441
00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:54.060
<v Seth Shostak>Just because you have a lot of biology doesn't mean that you have a lot of intelligence, right?

442
00:21:54.800 --> 00:21:56.560
<v Seth Shostak>Nature's not interested in intelligence,

443
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.800
<v Seth Shostak>something you can prove to yourself again by talking to the next person.

444
00:21:58.820 --> 00:21:58.900
<v Seth Shostak>You can't prove to yourself that you're one of the neighbors.

445
00:21:59.800 --> 00:22:02.000
<v Seth Shostak>Nature is interested only in survival.

446
00:22:02.260 --> 00:22:04.620
<v Seth Shostak>And intelligence is one mechanism for survival,

447
00:22:04.840 --> 00:22:07.780
<v Seth Shostak>but there are lots of other cheaper mechanisms for survival,

448
00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:10.260
<v Seth Shostak>like better eyes and faster legs and stuff like that.

449
00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:11.680
<v Seth Shostak>So it's unclear that this will happen,

450
00:22:11.780 --> 00:22:15.220
<v Seth Shostak>but there's a reason to think, we don't have really time to go into it,

451
00:22:15.300 --> 00:22:19.240
<v Seth Shostak>but there's a reason to think that intelligence actually might not be uncommon either.

452
00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:20.420
<v Seth Shostak>We don't know that.

453
00:22:20.540 --> 00:22:22.840
<v Seth Shostak>Maybe the fastest way to prove it is to find it somewhere else.

454
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.280
<v Seth Shostak>So let's discuss that.

455
00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:26.260
<v Seth Shostak>How could we find the aliens?

456
00:22:26.360 --> 00:22:28.460
<v Seth Shostak>Here you have a bunch of aliens all looking alike,

457
00:22:28.820 --> 00:22:30.480
<v Seth Shostak>as they always do, never a sense of humor, no hair.

458
00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:35.960
<v Seth Shostak>These are kind of your ASA standard or ISO standard aliens these days.

459
00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:37.480
<v Seth Shostak>You little gray guys.

460
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.280
<v Seth Shostak>But all these are predictions of what we think we are going to become, right?

461
00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:43.560
<v Seth Shostak>We're losing our hair, these guys, way ahead of us.

462
00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Seth Shostak>We're losing our olfactory sense, our dentition.

463
00:22:46.220 --> 00:22:47.800
<v Seth Shostak>These guys have small noses, small mouths,

464
00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:50.760
<v Seth Shostak>and big eyes because they sit around designing websites.

465
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:56.240
<v Seth Shostak>Well, we could try and find them by simply blasting off and going to look.

466
00:22:56.340 --> 00:22:57.640
<v Seth Shostak>This is what they do every night on television.

467
00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:58.320
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

468
00:22:58.820 --> 00:23:00.820
<v Seth Shostak>They call up Scotty down in the engine room,

469
00:23:00.860 --> 00:23:02.060
<v Seth Shostak>put the pedal to the metal, and away they go.

470
00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:03.520
<v Seth Shostak>But this doesn't work, as you know,

471
00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:05.720
<v Seth Shostak>because our rockets are too slow.

472
00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:08.500
<v Seth Shostak>Our rockets go to like 10 kilometers a second,

473
00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:10.600
<v Seth Shostak>which is great if you're going to Cooper Petey.

474
00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:13.320
<v Seth Shostak>Unclear why you'd want to, but okay.

475
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:16.840
<v Seth Shostak>But it's okay if you're going to the moon.

476
00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:18.160
<v Seth Shostak>It's okay if you're going to Mars.

477
00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:18.940
<v Seth Shostak>All of that's fine.

478
00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:21.120
<v Seth Shostak>But if you want to go to the next star, Alpha Centauri,

479
00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.200
<v Seth Shostak>which you can see here in the night sky,

480
00:23:22.780 --> 00:23:24.940
<v Seth Shostak>it will take you 70,000 years one way.

481
00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:27.800
<v Seth Shostak>And that's longer than you're going to want to sit there

482
00:23:27.800 --> 00:23:30.380
<v Seth Shostak>with your tray table and seat back in their fully upright position.

483
00:23:30.580 --> 00:23:32.320
<v Seth Shostak>You don't want to do that for 70,000 years.

484
00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:36.040
<v Seth Shostak>You should keep that in mind when you consider the efficacy

485
00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:39.440
<v Seth Shostak>of attempts to get in touch by gluing greeting cards

486
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.860
<v Seth Shostak>on the sides of our spacecraft, something we've done.

487
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:44.080
<v Seth Shostak>I won't belabor this because I think you're all familiar with this.

488
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:47.940
<v Seth Shostak>This is a plaque that was put on the Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft

489
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:49.820
<v Seth Shostak>back in the 1970s.

490
00:23:50.280 --> 00:23:51.980
<v Seth Shostak>What had happened was that somebody realized,

491
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.900
<v Seth Shostak>somebody at NASA, Eric Burgess was his name,

492
00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:57.340
<v Seth Shostak>realized that these spacecraft were going to leave the solar system

493
00:23:57.340 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Seth Shostak>and never come back.

494
00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.300
<v Seth Shostak>So he said, well, let's put a builder's plate on it.

495
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.120
<v Seth Shostak>And they got Carl Sagan to design this thing.

496
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.020
<v Seth Shostak>It's about the size of a number board on a car.

497
00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:08.640
<v Seth Shostak>It was engraved in a bowling trophy shop near where I live in,

498
00:24:09.080 --> 00:24:09.900
<v Seth Shostak>Mountain View, actually.

499
00:24:10.540 --> 00:24:11.380
<v Seth Shostak>But it's fairly clever.

500
00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.660
<v Seth Shostak>The thing on the left is a map of the nearby pulsars up here.

501
00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:16.820
<v Seth Shostak>That shows where we are in the galaxy.

502
00:24:17.040 --> 00:24:19.060
<v Seth Shostak>At the bottom, you see a map of the solar system,

503
00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:22.040
<v Seth Shostak>Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, spacecraft coming off the Earth.

504
00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:24.000
<v Seth Shostak>There you see the couple in front of the spacecraft

505
00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:26.900
<v Seth Shostak>having just stepped out of the shower, I suppose.

506
00:24:26.900 --> 00:24:32.060
<v Seth Shostak>A friend of mine at Monash tells me that that upraised hand

507
00:24:32.060 --> 00:24:33.480
<v Seth Shostak>is the universal symbol of war.

508
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.680
<v Seth Shostak>It's a little unclear how he knows that, but all right.

509
00:24:39.060 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Seth Shostak>Now, the point, however, this is a nice little greeting card,

510
00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:44.220
<v Seth Shostak>but it's never going to be read,

511
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:47.940
<v Seth Shostak>because it'll take 70,000 years for this thing to get to the nearest star.

512
00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:49.560
<v Seth Shostak>It's not aimed at the nearest star.

513
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:51.460
<v Seth Shostak>JPL has figured this out.

514
00:24:51.520 --> 00:24:54.280
<v Seth Shostak>It'll get within a light year of, I think it's Aldebaran,

515
00:24:54.340 --> 00:24:56.880
<v Seth Shostak>in a million years, it'll all be sanded away by micrometeorites,

516
00:24:56.900 --> 00:24:57.940
<v Seth Shostak>then it's ridiculous.

517
00:24:58.180 --> 00:24:59.580
<v Seth Shostak>And it's also ambiguous.

518
00:25:00.360 --> 00:25:02.820
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, the aliens may pick this up and look at that spiky thing on the left

519
00:25:02.820 --> 00:25:04.980
<v Seth Shostak>and figure, ah, they look like sea urchins.

520
00:25:06.540 --> 00:25:08.340
<v Seth Shostak>And the thing on the right must be the map.

521
00:25:11.100 --> 00:25:13.280
<v Seth Shostak>That's good fun, but this is like trying to discover America

522
00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:14.820
<v Seth Shostak>by throwing bottles in the ocean in Spain.

523
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:15.500
<v Seth Shostak>It doesn't work.

524
00:25:15.580 --> 00:25:16.820
<v Seth Shostak>This is another way to do it.

525
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.360
<v Seth Shostak>You stand around like these Rockwell engineers

526
00:25:19.820 --> 00:25:20.980
<v Seth Shostak>and wait for them to land.

527
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.980
<v Seth Shostak>Now, I have to be careful.

528
00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:26.840
<v Seth Shostak>I have to be careful.

529
00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:29.400
<v Seth Shostak>Actually, I don't have to be careful here because my plane's this afternoon.

530
00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:32.700
<v Seth Shostak>But I should be a little bit careful

531
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:35.700
<v Seth Shostak>because surveys in the United States show that 50% of the population,

532
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.880
<v Seth Shostak>and this has been true for at least 30 or 40 years now,

533
00:25:38.060 --> 00:25:42.560
<v Seth Shostak>50% of the population believes that the aliens are not only out there

534
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.680
<v Seth Shostak>but that they're here occasionally, you know,

535
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.740
<v Seth Shostak>buzzing the countryside in their saucers or abducting you for salacious experiments.

536
00:25:50.580 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Seth Shostak>And I think that the percentage in Europe and Australia is rather similar.

537
00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Seth Shostak>So presumably half of you believe that this is happening.

538
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:56.800
<v Seth Shostak>I don't...

539
00:25:57.940 --> 00:25:59.480
<v Seth Shostak>I'm happy to talk to you about it, but I don't think so.

540
00:25:59.540 --> 00:26:01.220
<v Seth Shostak>This is probably the best of the UFO photos.

541
00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.800
<v Seth Shostak>And I say that somewhat immodestly because I made this photo in my garage.

542
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:05.740
<v Seth Shostak>This is...

543
00:26:08.300 --> 00:26:10.920
<v Seth Shostak>This is a lampshade I found in an abandoned shopping cart.

544
00:26:11.020 --> 00:26:13.880
<v Seth Shostak>But I made this for a woman's magazine, actually.

545
00:26:14.080 --> 00:26:16.560
<v Seth Shostak>The photo editor of the woman's magazine called me up and they said,

546
00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:18.940
<v Seth Shostak>Look, we'd like to buy a UFO photo from you.

547
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.480
<v Seth Shostak>And I said, Well, we don't actually deal with UFOs, but I'll make you a picture.

548
00:26:22.780 --> 00:26:24.880
<v Seth Shostak>And she said, No, no, no, we want a real one.

549
00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Seth Shostak>I said, Well, mine will be as real as any.

550
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:28.320
<v Seth Shostak>So...

551
00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Seth Shostak>I made this one.

552
00:26:31.260 --> 00:26:34.260
<v Seth Shostak>And it's appeared in a lot of magazines, actually.

553
00:26:35.300 --> 00:26:36.000
<v Seth Shostak>It has.

554
00:26:36.260 --> 00:26:39.220
<v Seth Shostak>Anyhow, this is what's purported to be a real UFO.

555
00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:44.080
<v Seth Shostak>Now, I don't know if this convinces you that aliens are, you know, sailing through our skies.

556
00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:48.280
<v Seth Shostak>Or whether it convinces you that perhaps hubcaps are sailing through our skies.

557
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:50.420
<v Seth Shostak>Which would be, you know, somewhat less profound.

558
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:52.500
<v Seth Shostak>So this is not good enough.

559
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:53.600
<v Seth Shostak>This kind of evidence.

560
00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:54.760
<v Seth Shostak>Clearly, it's not good enough.

561
00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:58.060
<v Seth Shostak>If you're going to make the claim that, you know, aliens are here, then you need some decent evidence.

562
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:58.780
<v Seth Shostak>This is not it.

563
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.000
<v Seth Shostak>Nobody ever comes into my office with an ashtray or a radio knob from a UFO.

564
00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:03.820
<v Seth Shostak>Hey, look at this.

565
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:05.200
<v Seth Shostak>You know, that'd be great.

566
00:27:05.280 --> 00:27:06.560
<v Seth Shostak>It'd be job security for me.

567
00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:07.860
<v Seth Shostak>But it doesn't happen.

568
00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:08.600
<v Seth Shostak>Doesn't happen.

569
00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:14.900
<v Seth Shostak>This is another bit of evidence often touted as indicating that the aliens are afoot in the land.

570
00:27:15.020 --> 00:27:20.780
<v Seth Shostak>Namely, they're trying to communicate to the residents of Wiltshire in Hampshire by these crop circles.

571
00:27:21.540 --> 00:27:26.500
<v Seth Shostak>Aside from the fact that humans can make these things overnight with some boards and ropes.

572
00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.320
<v Seth Shostak>And routinely do, by the way.

573
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:31.420
<v Seth Shostak>You have to ask, I mean, I always wonder about the motivation here.

574
00:27:31.460 --> 00:27:32.280
<v Seth Shostak>I'm trying to figure this out.

575
00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:36.260
<v Seth Shostak>I'm trying to imagine myself, I'm in an alien parliament a hundred light years away.

576
00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:41.300
<v Seth Shostak>Like, okay, Senator Zork, let me understand this bill you have here on the floor.

577
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:46.280
<v Seth Shostak>You want us to spend a hundred trillion galactic cruceros to build this giant spacecraft.

578
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.580
<v Seth Shostak>Go a hundred light years to that little yellow star over there.

579
00:27:49.580 --> 00:27:51.020
<v Seth Shostak>Find the blue planet.

580
00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.800
<v Seth Shostak>Go down onto that blue planet and carve graffiti in their wheat.

581
00:27:55.020 --> 00:27:55.620
<v Seth Shostak>Is that it?

582
00:28:00.280 --> 00:28:01.960
<v Seth Shostak>I don't think you'd vote for it.

583
00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:04.820
<v Seth Shostak>I don't think they'd vote for it.

584
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:05.940
<v Seth Shostak>Now, this doesn't make sense to me.

585
00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:10.460
<v Seth Shostak>So, bottom line is, we're not going there.

586
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:13.140
<v Seth Shostak>Certainly not in the foreseeable future.

587
00:28:13.300 --> 00:28:14.100
<v Seth Shostak>Possibly ever.

588
00:28:14.260 --> 00:28:15.740
<v Seth Shostak>It's very difficult to travel to the stars.

589
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:17.200
<v Seth Shostak>That's a really difficult thing.

590
00:28:17.260 --> 00:28:18.780
<v Seth Shostak>The physics mitigate against that.

591
00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:19.560
<v Seth Shostak>But, I'm not going there.

592
00:28:19.580 --> 00:28:21.640
<v Seth Shostak>But, and I don't think they've come here.

593
00:28:21.860 --> 00:28:22.700
<v Seth Shostak>So, any hope?

594
00:28:22.860 --> 00:28:24.120
<v Seth Shostak>Well, of course, there's hope.

595
00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:25.380
<v Seth Shostak>We could find them at home.

596
00:28:25.620 --> 00:28:29.960
<v Seth Shostak>We could do what Jodie Foster did here with sometime help of Matthew McConaughey.

597
00:28:30.760 --> 00:28:32.940
<v Seth Shostak>Although, every time I say that, the women all say it doesn't matter.

598
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.360
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, it was kind of useless, but all right.

599
00:28:37.560 --> 00:28:40.520
<v Seth Shostak>By eavesdropping on signals they might be broadcasting into space.

600
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:41.120
<v Seth Shostak>Okay?

601
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:42.520
<v Seth Shostak>And that's indeed what we do.

602
00:28:42.620 --> 00:28:44.840
<v Seth Shostak>That movie was based on the work of the SETI Institute.

603
00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:46.940
<v Seth Shostak>Our current listening program is called Project Phoenix.

604
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.320
<v Seth Shostak>Just a little bit about it.

605
00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:49.560
<v Seth Shostak>Here's the antennae.

606
00:28:49.560 --> 00:28:53.960
<v Seth Shostak>This is the antennae that we use to point at nearby stars hoping to pick up signals

607
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:55.160
<v Seth Shostak>that may be broadcasting our way.

608
00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:57.580
<v Seth Shostak>This is the same one Jodie Foster used in that movie, by the way.

609
00:28:57.940 --> 00:28:59.500
<v Seth Shostak>It's down in Puerto Rico, Arecibo.

610
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:01.560
<v Seth Shostak>I guess it's up in Puerto Rico from your point of view.

611
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.080
<v Seth Shostak>It's a thousand feet across.

612
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.520
<v Seth Shostak>It's the world's largest antenna.

613
00:29:04.820 --> 00:29:05.500
<v Seth Shostak>It's a very big thing.

614
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.320
<v Seth Shostak>And any of you who go to Puerto Rico, make sure you, you know, spend the hour and 20 minutes it takes to drive up to it.

615
00:29:10.360 --> 00:29:11.300
<v Seth Shostak>Go check it out.

616
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:12.880
<v Seth Shostak>They have a very nice visitor's center.

617
00:29:12.980 --> 00:29:15.320
<v Seth Shostak>And if you go to the observing room, tell them you know Seth.

618
00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:16.740
<v Seth Shostak>You know, they'll kick you in the shins or something.

619
00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:18.800
<v Seth Shostak>This is what it looks like underneath.

620
00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:19.760
<v Seth Shostak>It's a big dish.

621
00:29:19.900 --> 00:29:26.880
<v Seth Shostak>And by being big, see, it's just one more human endeavor where bigger really is better because it's more sensitive.

622
00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:29.000
<v Seth Shostak>It can pick up weaker signals.

623
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.440
<v Seth Shostak>This is a picture I made in April actually underneath the dish showing some of the stars there.

624
00:29:32.560 --> 00:29:36.800
<v Seth Shostak>But we point this thing at nearby stars one after another.

625
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:38.560
<v Seth Shostak>And we just check them out seeing if there are any signals.

626
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:44.180
<v Seth Shostak>We listen over a very wide range of the radio dial for those of you who are propeller heads in the audience.

627
00:29:44.420 --> 00:29:45.720
<v Seth Shostak>It's the microwave region.

628
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.540
<v Seth Shostak>We choose the microwave region of the spectrum.

629
00:29:48.800 --> 00:29:51.020
<v Seth Shostak>Because that's where the universe is quietest.

630
00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:52.220
<v Seth Shostak>We know that.

631
00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:53.620
<v Seth Shostak>ET will know that.

632
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:56.260
<v Seth Shostak>It only makes sense that if you're trying to get in touch, you'll broadcast there.

633
00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.960
<v Seth Shostak>That's part of our receiver there behind these, you know, happy-go-lucky engineers that work with us.

634
00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:05.660
<v Seth Shostak>And we monitor tens of millions of channels at once.

635
00:30:06.220 --> 00:30:10.820
<v Seth Shostak>And for each star we look at, we actually check out 2,000 million channels.

636
00:30:11.980 --> 00:30:13.480
<v Seth Shostak>Now how do we know if we've heard something?

637
00:30:14.860 --> 00:30:16.080
<v Seth Shostak>Easy enough for Jody.

638
00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:18.580
<v Seth Shostak>She just put on some earphones.

639
00:30:18.580 --> 00:30:19.740
<v Seth Shostak>You know, sat on the hood of her car.

640
00:30:19.860 --> 00:30:21.200
<v Seth Shostak>Waited about 20 seconds.

641
00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:26.600
<v Seth Shostak>And heard something that to me sounded like a pile driver hitting a pod of whales.

642
00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:29.380
<v Seth Shostak>Not that I've ever heard that, but, you know.

643
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:29.860
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

644
00:30:30.040 --> 00:30:31.940
<v Seth Shostak>Well, we told Warner Brothers.

645
00:30:32.020 --> 00:30:32.960
<v Seth Shostak>We were consultants for the film.

646
00:30:33.060 --> 00:30:34.040
<v Seth Shostak>I remember telling Warner Brothers.

647
00:30:34.100 --> 00:30:34.980
<v Seth Shostak>I said, this is wrong.

648
00:30:35.760 --> 00:30:37.480
<v Seth Shostak>We're monitoring tens of millions of channels.

649
00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:40.920
<v Seth Shostak>She should be wearing 10 million pairs of earphones.

650
00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:43.280
<v Seth Shostak>And Warner Brothers demurred.

651
00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:44.420
<v Seth Shostak>They said, we're not going to do that.

652
00:30:44.560 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Seth Shostak>It'll crowd the shot.

653
00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:47.120
<v Seth Shostak>.

654
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:49.740
<v Seth Shostak>Mess up her coiffure or something.

655
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:50.120
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

656
00:30:50.180 --> 00:30:51.560
<v Derek Abbott>So this is what it really looks like.

657
00:30:52.540 --> 00:30:53.760
<v Seth Shostak>And I apologize.

658
00:30:54.120 --> 00:30:55.840
<v Seth Shostak>Again, this is a self-portrait.

659
00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:57.440
<v Seth Shostak>But you get really bored sitting there.

660
00:30:57.540 --> 00:30:59.080
<v Seth Shostak>So start taking pictures of yourself.

661
00:30:59.320 --> 00:30:59.580
<v Seth Shostak>.

662
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:02.760
<v Seth Shostak>But this is one of the control rooms.

663
00:31:02.760 --> 00:31:04.680
<v Seth Shostak>This is the control room that we use at Arecibo.

664
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.080
<v Seth Shostak>And there you see me pretending to pay attention to the monitors.

665
00:31:07.220 --> 00:31:11.860
<v Seth Shostak>But you don't actually have to do that because the monitors are paying attention to all these tens of millions of channels.

666
00:31:12.020 --> 00:31:13.120
<v Seth Shostak>The computers are listening.

667
00:31:13.280 --> 00:31:14.280
<v Seth Shostak>The computers are listening.

668
00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:17.000
<v Seth Shostak>And if they find something, they make very simple checks.

669
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.460
<v Seth Shostak>To determine whether the signal is truly extraterrestrial or not.

670
00:31:20.660 --> 00:31:22.000
<v Seth Shostak>We get signals all the time.

671
00:31:23.120 --> 00:31:27.220
<v Seth Shostak>But that's because we've got this huge antenna monitoring millions of channels, of course.

672
00:31:27.320 --> 00:31:30.220
<v Seth Shostak>We pick up the radar sets down at the airport in San Juan.

673
00:31:30.460 --> 00:31:33.480
<v Seth Shostak>We pick up telecommunication satellites that are wheeling overhead.

674
00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:35.860
<v Seth Shostak>You all want your cell phones, particularly in conferences like this.

675
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.100
<v Seth Shostak>And that means that we have to put up more and more satellites, all of which cause interference.

676
00:31:40.340 --> 00:31:41.880
<v Seth Shostak>So we have to sort all that out.

677
00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:44.500
<v Seth Shostak>It's rather difficult, in fact, and becoming more difficult all the time.

678
00:31:44.740 --> 00:31:46.180
<v Seth Shostak>But that's the name of the game.

679
00:31:46.180 --> 00:31:48.840
<v Seth Shostak>So this is what it looks like, and that's what we do twice a year.

680
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:50.060
<v Seth Shostak>We go to Arecibo and we listen.

681
00:31:50.600 --> 00:31:54.100
<v Seth Shostak>The kind of signal we're looking for, by the way, people often wonder, what are you listening for?

682
00:31:54.260 --> 00:31:55.040
<v Seth Shostak>What language?

683
00:31:55.780 --> 00:31:56.960
<v Seth Shostak>We don't care about language.

684
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.280
<v Seth Shostak>We're only looking for a signal that's clearly made by a transmitter.

685
00:32:01.660 --> 00:32:03.040
<v Seth Shostak>That's called a narrowband signal.

686
00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:04.380
<v Seth Shostak>You can see these spiky things.

687
00:32:04.600 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Seth Shostak>Those are narrowband signals.

688
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:09.320
<v Seth Shostak>And in fact, I made this picture right off the screen there at Arecibo.

689
00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:13.300
<v Seth Shostak>It looks pretty good because it looks like, well, by gosh, there are Klingons there in the top pane.

690
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.120
<v Seth Shostak>And some Phrygians down below, whatever.

691
00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:17.340
<v Seth Shostak>But all of that is terrestrial interference.

692
00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:19.020
<v Seth Shostak>All that had to be sorted out.

693
00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:20.260
<v Seth Shostak>So that's what we do.

694
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.520
<v Seth Shostak>The bottom line is, people ask, how sensitive is this experiment?

695
00:32:24.540 --> 00:32:25.780
<v Seth Shostak>Well, put it this way.

696
00:32:25.860 --> 00:32:29.400
<v Seth Shostak>If ET is broadcasting with an antenna as large as the one we're listening with,

697
00:32:30.220 --> 00:32:35.140
<v Seth Shostak>then we'd be able to hear them from 100 light years if their transmitter power were 10 kilowatts or more.

698
00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:36.760
<v Seth Shostak>And that's not much.

699
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.360
<v Seth Shostak>All the lights in this room are probably close to 10 kilowatts.

700
00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:43.860
<v Seth Shostak>So if you get nothing else out of this talk, which is, of course, eminently possible,

701
00:32:43.860 --> 00:32:45.640
<v Seth Shostak>maybe you'll get this.

702
00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:50.500
<v Seth Shostak>It's very easy to send signals between the stars.

703
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.140
<v Seth Shostak>It's very hard to send yourself.

704
00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:53.440
<v Seth Shostak>That's difficult.

705
00:32:53.580 --> 00:32:55.380
<v Seth Shostak>Time consuming takes a lot of energy.

706
00:32:55.540 --> 00:32:57.040
<v Seth Shostak>It's easy to send information, though.

707
00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:59.560
<v Seth Shostak>It's like having a friend in California for you.

708
00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:02.760
<v Seth Shostak>You might occasionally go there, but that's a long trip.

709
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:03.360
<v Seth Shostak>It's expensive.

710
00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:04.060
<v Seth Shostak>It's slow.

711
00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:08.560
<v Seth Shostak>Sending email is fast, inexpensive, and very energetically cheap.

712
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.740
<v Seth Shostak>So whatever else is going on in the galaxy, we assume there's a lot of signaling.

713
00:33:11.860 --> 00:33:12.500
<v Seth Shostak>Now, have we heard anything?

714
00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Seth Shostak>No, not yet.

715
00:33:15.040 --> 00:33:15.860
<v Seth Shostak>Well, when are we?

716
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:19.680
<v Seth Shostak>People often ask, so, Seth, when are you going to find the signal here?

717
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:20.980
<v Seth Shostak>You guys have been doing this for a while now.

718
00:33:21.520 --> 00:33:23.040
<v Seth Shostak>Your mom thinks you ought to get a real job.

719
00:33:23.180 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Seth Shostak>What about it?

720
00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:30.060
<v Seth Shostak>Well, if you ask people who do SETI for a living, hey, Frank Drake here, he's my boss.

721
00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:31.560
<v Seth Shostak>I always have him in the slides.

722
00:33:34.120 --> 00:33:36.340
<v Seth Shostak>Frank, when are we going to find the signal?

723
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:39.400
<v Seth Shostak>He'll always give you an answer that's the number of years until he retires.

724
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.840
<v Seth Shostak>Frank was in Campbell, California.

725
00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:44.080
<v Seth Shostak>He was in Campbelltown.

726
00:33:44.780 --> 00:33:45.820
<v Seth Shostak>What, 10 years ago?

727
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:47.100
<v Seth Shostak>He said, we'll find the signal within 10 years.

728
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:49.460
<v Seth Shostak>He was telling all the ABC reporters, we'll find it within 10 years.

729
00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Seth Shostak>It's been 10 years.

730
00:33:50.540 --> 00:33:51.840
<v Seth Shostak>Now if you ask him, no, it's still 10 years.

731
00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:52.700
<v Seth Shostak>It's always 10 years.

732
00:33:53.280 --> 00:33:54.160
<v Seth Shostak>That's not a very good answer.

733
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.320
<v Seth Shostak>Here's what I think is a better one.

734
00:33:56.580 --> 00:34:00.820
<v Seth Shostak>How long it's going to take us to find the aliens depends on how many of the aliens there

735
00:34:00.820 --> 00:34:01.260
<v Seth Shostak>are to find.

736
00:34:01.620 --> 00:34:03.200
<v Seth Shostak>We're looking for a needle in a haystack.

737
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:04.960
<v Seth Shostak>We know how big the haystack is.

738
00:34:05.020 --> 00:34:05.920
<v Seth Shostak>That's the size of the galaxy.

739
00:34:06.080 --> 00:34:08.000
<v Seth Shostak>But how many needles are in there?

740
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:12.240
<v Seth Shostak>How many civilizations are out there that have their transmitters on that are producing

741
00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:13.820
<v Seth Shostak>signals that are going right through the galaxy?

742
00:34:13.820 --> 00:34:15.120
<v Seth Shostak>What's going through your bodies as you sit in here?

743
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.180
<v Seth Shostak>Now, we don't know the answer to that.

744
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:21.220
<v Seth Shostak>Carl Sagan thought that the answer was like a million.

745
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:22.760
<v Seth Shostak>There are a million civilizations in our galaxy.

746
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:23.640
<v Seth Shostak>That's the third row here.

747
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.140
<v Seth Shostak>If Carl were right, then the nearest aliens are on the order of 250 light years away,

748
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.020
<v Seth Shostak>and we have to sort through 40,000 sun-like stars to find one.

749
00:34:34.160 --> 00:34:38.520
<v Seth Shostak>Frank Drake, who's the guy that mentioned my boss, who came up with this whole idea

750
00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:42.940
<v Seth Shostak>in a way, he thinks it's more like 10,000 civilizations in the galaxy, in which case

751
00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:43.800
<v Seth Shostak>the nearest aliens are a third.

752
00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:49.400
<v Seth Shostak>So, we have to sort through, what, 4 million sun-like stars to find one.

753
00:34:49.600 --> 00:34:54.480
<v Seth Shostak>Now, how many sun-like stars have we actually checked out so far using the telescope in

754
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Seth Shostak>Puerto Rico and the one in parks and others in the United States?

755
00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:00.740
<v Seth Shostak>The answer is 4 or 500 stars, only 4 or 500 stars.

756
00:35:01.180 --> 00:35:07.880
<v Seth Shostak>So, clearly, we're a long, long way from having reconnoitered enough of this galactic haystack

757
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:09.740
<v Seth Shostak>to have any hope of finding a needle.

758
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:12.640
<v Seth Shostak>But, as it turns out,

759
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:15.580
<v Seth Shostak>the experiments keep getting better.

760
00:35:15.680 --> 00:35:22.640
<v Seth Shostak>This is another one of those 12 plots, but what you see here is the quality, if you will,

761
00:35:22.720 --> 00:35:27.380
<v Seth Shostak>the sensitivity, some measure of the goodness of SETI experiments since 1960,

762
00:35:27.700 --> 00:35:29.160
<v Seth Shostak>and you see they keep getting better.

763
00:35:29.220 --> 00:35:31.500
<v Seth Shostak>This is an exponential scale, so they're getting better exponentially.

764
00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:36.060
<v Seth Shostak>In fact, they get better following something called Moore's Law.

765
00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:36.940
<v Seth Shostak>That's Moore's Law.

766
00:35:37.080 --> 00:35:40.240
<v Seth Shostak>This applies to computers, and what it says is that

767
00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:46.140
<v Seth Shostak>the amount of computing power you can buy per dollar doubles every 18 months.

768
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:51.600
<v Seth Shostak>Now, you're well aware, where I live, in the Silicon Valley, this is a law of nature.

769
00:35:52.220 --> 00:35:56.020
<v Seth Shostak>It's actually an economics law, but it's been translated into a technology law.

770
00:35:56.220 --> 00:35:56.980
<v Seth Shostak>This is a fact.

771
00:35:57.020 --> 00:35:59.780
<v Seth Shostak>You know that you have to throw out your computer every 3 years, and this is the reason why.

772
00:36:00.020 --> 00:36:00.520
<v Seth Shostak>Moore's Law.

773
00:36:01.640 --> 00:36:03.900
<v Seth Shostak>Compute power doubles every 18 months per dollar.

774
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.260
<v Seth Shostak>And that's been true for 20 years, and it's going to be true for at least another 20 years.

775
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:08.900
<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

776
00:36:08.900 --> 00:36:11.420
<v Seth Shostak>Well, that means SETI doubles every 18 months, too.

777
00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:13.860
<v Seth Shostak>And we're building a new telescope.

778
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:18.580
<v Seth Shostak>It's called the Allen Telescope Array because some of the money to build it was given to us by Paul Allen,

779
00:36:18.780 --> 00:36:21.660
<v Seth Shostak>who was the co-founder, along with Bill Gates of the Microsoft Corporation.

780
00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:26.080
<v Seth Shostak>These are a couple of the antennas up there in Northern California in the Cascades.

781
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:27.620
<v Seth Shostak>I was there a couple of weeks ago.

782
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:28.980
<v Seth Shostak>These are big antennas.

783
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.580
<v Seth Shostak>They're 20 feet across, 6 meters.

784
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.660
<v Seth Shostak>And we're going to build, ultimately, 350 of them.

785
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.100
<v Seth Shostak>Here you see an artist's rendition of what it'll look like.

786
00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:38.580
<v Seth Shostak>It says, First Light 2004.

787
00:36:38.580 --> 00:36:40.000
<v Seth Shostak>That depends on the funding.

788
00:36:40.220 --> 00:36:42.540
<v Seth Shostak>All SETI in the United States is privately funded.

789
00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:46.300
<v Seth Shostak>And outside the United States, there's very little SETI at all.

790
00:36:46.560 --> 00:36:53.220
<v Seth Shostak>The only other country that does any substantive SETI experiment is Australia.

791
00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:57.560
<v Seth Shostak>And they use Parkes, and it's run out of the University of Western Sydney, Campbelltown.

792
00:36:58.800 --> 00:36:59.240
<v Seth Shostak>MacArthur.

793
00:36:59.620 --> 00:37:05.080
<v Seth Shostak>In any case, this is what it'll look like when it's completed, as I say, sometime in the next 10 years.

794
00:37:05.220 --> 00:37:08.560
<v Seth Shostak>And this thing will be a couple of hundred times faster than what we're doing now.

795
00:37:08.560 --> 00:37:11.680
<v Seth Shostak>And it'll get faster after that, thanks to Moore's Law.

796
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:19.540
<v Seth Shostak>The bottom line is, you can compute how many star systems this new telescope will be able to check out as a function of time.

797
00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:27.520
<v Seth Shostak>And those of you who can see this, see that on this basis, by the year 2015, we will hit ET if Carl Sagan is right.

798
00:37:27.860 --> 00:37:33.440
<v Seth Shostak>And by the year, what, 2025 or thereabouts, we will hit ET if Frank Drake is right.

799
00:37:33.660 --> 00:37:37.840
<v Seth Shostak>So, I think that the bottom line here is that, you know, okay, there are a lot of assumptions here.

800
00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.340
<v Seth Shostak>But this is better than the answer of how many years until I retire.

801
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:47.020
<v Seth Shostak>What this is saying is that finding the extraterrestrials is not a project that may take generations.

802
00:37:47.620 --> 00:37:49.240
<v Seth Shostak>This is not like building a medieval cathedral.

803
00:37:50.060 --> 00:37:56.860
<v Seth Shostak>This is something that, if the assumptions are even moderately correct, this will succeed in your lifetime.

804
00:37:57.820 --> 00:37:59.920
<v Seth Shostak>Alright, this is going to happen in the next two decades.

805
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:02.900
<v Seth Shostak>So, that's the claim here.

806
00:38:03.020 --> 00:38:05.560
<v Seth Shostak>And I will bet you all a flat white that it'll take place.

807
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.580
<v Seth Shostak>I won't bet you more than that, but I'll bet you that.

808
00:38:08.020 --> 00:38:09.920
<v Seth Shostak>Alright, well, let's just, here's a picture of parks.

809
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:14.900
<v Seth Shostak>Let me just briefly describe what would happen if we did hear them.

810
00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:20.260
<v Seth Shostak>What if we went down to the telescope and, well, we go back in November to Puerto Rico, and we actually picked up the signal.

811
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:20.980
<v Seth Shostak>What happens?

812
00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:28.320
<v Seth Shostak>This is the first thing. Supposedly, this is the first thing that happened.

813
00:38:28.340 --> 00:38:32.700
<v Seth Shostak>I had to remove a lot of rotten sandwiches and old fruit and stuff like that in order to make this picture.

814
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.040
<v Seth Shostak>But I have to say, this is the fridge there, the Arecibo control room.

815
00:38:36.080 --> 00:38:37.560
<v Seth Shostak>And that champagne is really there.

816
00:38:37.560 --> 00:38:38.220
<v Seth Shostak>It is there.

817
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.860
<v Seth Shostak>I have to say that every time we go to the telescope, it's a different bottle of champagne.

818
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.640
<v Seth Shostak>So, you know, the engineers have caught on to this.

819
00:38:46.700 --> 00:38:47.880
<v Seth Shostak>But in any case, yeah, alright.

820
00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:49.720
<v Seth Shostak>Then there would be a big news story.

821
00:38:50.260 --> 00:38:51.540
<v Seth Shostak>You would read about it.

822
00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:54.820
<v Seth Shostak>And many of you wonder about that, particularly in the United States.

823
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.500
<v Seth Shostak>The United States just loves to think that its government is keeping secrets from them, conspiracies and so forth and so on.

824
00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:01.400
<v Seth Shostak>The Americans love that.

825
00:39:01.520 --> 00:39:05.260
<v Seth Shostak>And for their part, the U.S. government likes to oblige by occasionally keeping secrets.

826
00:39:05.580 --> 00:39:06.420
<v Seth Shostak>So, it's a...

827
00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:09.240
<v Seth Shostak>It's a win-win situation.

828
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:10.120
<v Seth Shostak>But...

829
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:13.560
<v Seth Shostak>But you couldn't keep this secret.

830
00:39:13.660 --> 00:39:14.500
<v Seth Shostak>We've had false alarms.

831
00:39:14.620 --> 00:39:19.160
<v Seth Shostak>In 1997, we had a false alarm that had us convinced for about 16 hours we'd found the aliens.

832
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.060
<v Seth Shostak>And, you know, the New York Times was calling me up.

833
00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:23.280
<v Seth Shostak>And I said, well, what about it, Seth?

834
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:25.720
<v Seth Shostak>You know, you don't lie to the New York Times.

835
00:39:26.620 --> 00:39:28.120
<v Seth Shostak>As it turned out, it was a false alarm.

836
00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:30.360
<v Seth Shostak>But in any case, the media will be all over this right away.

837
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:31.920
<v Seth Shostak>So, you'll just read about it in the newspapers.

838
00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:32.960
<v Seth Shostak>But then what?

839
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:34.320
<v Seth Shostak>Then what?

840
00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:35.240
<v Seth Shostak>Well...

841
00:39:36.180 --> 00:39:37.540
<v Seth Shostak>You would get every telescope.

842
00:39:37.540 --> 00:39:39.160
<v Seth Shostak>And the world aimed at this thing, of course.

843
00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Seth Shostak>You would collect all the data you could.

844
00:39:40.560 --> 00:39:43.620
<v Seth Shostak>You would learn everything you could about whatever star system it's coming from.

845
00:39:43.720 --> 00:39:44.780
<v Seth Shostak>That would tell you a few things.

846
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:48.280
<v Seth Shostak>But what you really want to know is what the aliens are saying.

847
00:39:49.080 --> 00:39:50.020
<v Seth Shostak>What are they saying, Jim?

848
00:39:50.600 --> 00:39:51.000
<v Seth Shostak>Well...

849
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:52.180
<v Seth Shostak>Oh...

850
00:39:53.080 --> 00:39:55.380
<v Seth Shostak>And that would take a lot of time, probably.

851
00:39:55.560 --> 00:40:01.120
<v Seth Shostak>Because you'd have to build a much larger instrument in order to get the message, the modulation, as it's called.

852
00:40:01.180 --> 00:40:03.640
<v Seth Shostak>That would be much harder to find than finding the signal itself.

853
00:40:04.180 --> 00:40:06.860
<v Seth Shostak>And you won't have a Rosetta Stone to decode it either.

854
00:40:06.860 --> 00:40:12.420
<v Seth Shostak>And, unlike in the movies, the aliens are not going to be at our level.

855
00:40:13.060 --> 00:40:14.420
<v Seth Shostak>In the movies, they're always at our level.

856
00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:15.420
<v Seth Shostak>Remember Independence Day?

857
00:40:15.520 --> 00:40:17.300
<v Seth Shostak>You know, the president asks these aliens,

858
00:40:17.500 --> 00:40:19.180
<v Seth Shostak>So, what do you want us to do?

859
00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:20.600
<v Seth Shostak>And the alien says,

860
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.200
<v Seth Shostak>Die.

861
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:22.520
<v Derek Abbott>All right.

862
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.940
<v Seth Shostak>I am a bit of a downer, but, you know, you've got to say that at least it's comprehensible.

863
00:40:29.060 --> 00:40:29.540
<v Seth Shostak>You know what I mean?

864
00:40:29.540 --> 00:40:29.740
<v Seth Shostak>All right.

865
00:40:31.180 --> 00:40:32.100
<v Seth Shostak>It's not going to be like that.

866
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:33.800
<v Seth Shostak>Any aliens you find...

867
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:35.620
<v Seth Shostak>This isn't to say there aren't stupid aliens out there.

868
00:40:35.620 --> 00:40:38.480
<v Seth Shostak>But any aliens you find are going to be way ahead of you.

869
00:40:38.580 --> 00:40:39.500
<v Seth Shostak>That's a statistical argument.

870
00:40:39.600 --> 00:40:40.140
<v Seth Shostak>It's very solid.

871
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:41.820
<v Seth Shostak>Way ahead of you.

872
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Seth Shostak>Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, maybe more.

873
00:40:44.700 --> 00:40:49.040
<v Seth Shostak>So, if they've made their transmission easy for you to understand for some altruistic reason,

874
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:51.100
<v Seth Shostak>then what are they going to send you?

875
00:40:51.120 --> 00:40:51.840
<v Seth Shostak>Well, here's all of physics.

876
00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:52.520
<v Seth Shostak>Here's all of astronomy.

877
00:40:52.660 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Seth Shostak>Here's the cure for death.

878
00:40:53.580 --> 00:40:53.800
<v Seth Shostak>Whatever.

879
00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:54.580
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

880
00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:56.060
<v Seth Shostak>Kind of mess up your life in a way.

881
00:40:56.120 --> 00:40:59.660
<v Seth Shostak>You know, you've been working away on these research problems for 40 years.

882
00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:00.600
<v Seth Shostak>This stack of reprints.

883
00:41:00.740 --> 00:41:01.340
<v Seth Shostak>And the guy's going to say,

884
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:02.500
<v Seth Shostak>You know, really, that's pretty primitive.

885
00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:02.960
<v Seth Shostak>Look at this.

886
00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:03.600
<v Seth Shostak>You know?

887
00:41:03.600 --> 00:41:05.580
<v Seth Shostak>Kind of demoralizing.

888
00:41:05.580 --> 00:41:06.360
<v Seth Shostak>People have thought about that.

889
00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:09.060
<v Seth Shostak>But that's one thing that could happen.

890
00:41:09.640 --> 00:41:11.220
<v Seth Shostak>I think that's rather unlikely myself.

891
00:41:12.140 --> 00:41:18.000
<v Seth Shostak>I think it's much more likely that any message we pick up will be totally incomprehensible to us.

892
00:41:18.140 --> 00:41:21.540
<v Seth Shostak>It would be like giving the output of your computer modem to a Neanderthal.

893
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.600
<v Seth Shostak>They're never going to figure it out.

894
00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:25.080
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, the Neanderthals weren't all that stupid.

895
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:27.220
<v Seth Shostak>But they're not going to ever figure it out.

896
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:28.120
<v Seth Shostak>They don't have the context.

897
00:41:28.740 --> 00:41:30.100
<v Seth Shostak>So, I think that that's much more likely.

898
00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:32.260
<v Seth Shostak>We're going to get a signal and there'll be all these bits coming in.

899
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:33.580
<v Seth Shostak>And everybody will be putting them on the ground.

900
00:41:33.600 --> 00:41:35.220
<v Seth Shostak>And they're hard disked and trying to figure them out.

901
00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:38.180
<v Seth Shostak>Like, Champignon figured out the hieroglyphics.

902
00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:39.140
<v Seth Shostak>But they never will.

903
00:41:39.520 --> 00:41:41.840
<v Seth Shostak>And maybe after 100 years people will start worshipping these bits.

904
00:41:41.980 --> 00:41:42.660
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know what's going to happen.

905
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:43.060
<v Seth Shostak>But...

906
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.680
<v Seth Shostak>But it would still be important.

907
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.080
<v Seth Shostak>It's kind of analogous to having...

908
00:41:49.740 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know.

909
00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:51.020
<v Seth Shostak>You know, the Incas.

910
00:41:51.160 --> 00:41:53.760
<v Seth Shostak>They go down to the beach one day and there's this barrel rolled up.

911
00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:56.080
<v Seth Shostak>And there are all these books in the barrel.

912
00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:58.480
<v Seth Shostak>From some far away place.

913
00:41:58.520 --> 00:42:00.060
<v Seth Shostak>They don't understand anything about the books.

914
00:42:00.820 --> 00:42:03.580
<v Seth Shostak>But they know that there's something sophisticated on the other side.

915
00:42:03.600 --> 00:42:07.340
<v Seth Shostak>And that, I think, would be philosophically very, very important.

916
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:08.320
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

917
00:42:08.700 --> 00:42:10.240
<v Seth Shostak>Finally, what would they be like?

918
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:11.220
<v Seth Shostak>People always want to know.

919
00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Seth Shostak>What are the aliens going to look like?

920
00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:13.580
<v Seth Shostak>Are they going to be little gray guys?

921
00:42:14.060 --> 00:42:16.620
<v Seth Shostak>In the movies they're always little gray guys or little green guys.

922
00:42:16.660 --> 00:42:17.740
<v Seth Shostak>Or whatever the color du jour is.

923
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.400
<v Seth Shostak>But they're...

924
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.280
<v Seth Shostak>And they're almost invariably biological.

925
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.360
<v Seth Shostak>They're always kind of like us.

926
00:42:23.900 --> 00:42:26.660
<v Seth Shostak>Like these guys here from Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

927
00:42:26.780 --> 00:42:26.880
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

928
00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:32.780
<v Seth Shostak>These little friendly aliens they're about to offer Richard Dreyfuss a joyride in their spacecraft.

929
00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:33.580
<v Seth Shostak>And they've come hundreds of times.

930
00:42:33.600 --> 00:42:34.340
<v Seth Shostak>They've come hundreds of light years to do this.

931
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:35.760
<v Seth Shostak>And at the last minute forgot to get dressed.

932
00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:37.040
<v Seth Shostak>But it could be...

933
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.500
<v Seth Shostak>It could be that Dreyfuss didn't inform them of the dress code.

934
00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:41.320
<v Seth Shostak>And they were a little unsure.

935
00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:41.720
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know.

936
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:42.280
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

937
00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:44.140
<v Seth Shostak>Well, here's...

938
00:42:44.140 --> 00:42:46.100
<v Seth Shostak>We always assume that the aliens are like this.

939
00:42:46.140 --> 00:42:47.800
<v Seth Shostak>This is an arrival from the...

940
00:42:49.180 --> 00:42:49.680
<v Seth Shostak>I'm sorry.

941
00:42:49.780 --> 00:42:51.620
<v Seth Shostak>This is an alien from the movie The Arrival.

942
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.380
<v Seth Shostak>Which, again, you know, he looks pretty much like we do.

943
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:58.860
<v Seth Shostak>Obviously his plastic surgeon is the same one used by Michael Jackson.

944
00:43:00.560 --> 00:43:00.900
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

945
00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:01.400
<v Seth Shostak>Well.

946
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.380
<v Seth Shostak>We are, you know, soft squishy aliens.

947
00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:05.220
<v Seth Shostak>Spawn on a planet.

948
00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:06.440
<v Seth Shostak>Still hanging around on the planet.

949
00:43:06.600 --> 00:43:09.660
<v Seth Shostak>Lots of little identical little guys with no pets, no sense of humor.

950
00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:10.420
<v Seth Shostak>That kind of thing.

951
00:43:10.640 --> 00:43:10.960
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

952
00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:11.880
<v Seth Shostak>Because that's the way we are.

953
00:43:12.580 --> 00:43:17.340
<v Seth Shostak>But as a system for processing information, which is what we like to think we do.

954
00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:18.540
<v Seth Shostak>There's a festival of ideas.

955
00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:19.340
<v Seth Shostak>We're going to process information.

956
00:43:19.720 --> 00:43:20.260
<v Seth Shostak>Think of this.

957
00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Seth Shostak>If you came up with this scheme.

958
00:43:21.460 --> 00:43:23.200
<v Seth Shostak>I said, okay, I've got this information processing idea.

959
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.720
<v Seth Shostak>What we'll do is we'll have 6 billion 150 pound units.

960
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.400
<v Seth Shostak>Each with little three pound processors.

961
00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:30.060
<v Seth Shostak>Called their brains.

962
00:43:30.060 --> 00:43:33.800
<v Seth Shostak>Not too much interaction, you know, among these three pound brains.

963
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.020
<v Seth Shostak>We'll have them all running around.

964
00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:36.120
<v Seth Shostak>They'll be born dumb.

965
00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:37.000
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

966
00:43:37.040 --> 00:43:39.880
<v Seth Shostak>They'll spend the first 20 years of their life getting what's called in the US an education.

967
00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:43.920
<v Seth Shostak>Then they'll spend the next 40 years doing what's called their day job.

968
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:48.280
<v Seth Shostak>And then we'll bury the hard disk, the CPU in the ground and erase it all.

969
00:43:49.120 --> 00:43:49.940
<v Seth Shostak>Great idea.

970
00:43:50.140 --> 00:43:50.940
<v Seth Shostak>That sounds good.

971
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:53.320
<v Seth Shostak>Kind of stupid, isn't it?

972
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:54.440
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, it's really stupid.

973
00:43:54.640 --> 00:43:56.800
<v Seth Shostak>Now the aliens might not stick with that very long.

974
00:43:58.240 --> 00:44:00.040
<v Seth Shostak>Because, again, well, here's more than that.

975
00:44:00.040 --> 00:44:00.820
<v Seth Shostak>There are a lot of things that we always assume.

976
00:44:01.380 --> 00:44:01.740
<v Seth Shostak>There we are.

977
00:44:02.180 --> 00:44:02.660
<v Seth Shostak>Anthropomorphic aliens.

978
00:44:02.900 --> 00:44:04.960
<v Seth Shostak>We assume that because we figure they look like us.

979
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:09.040
<v Seth Shostak>If the dinosaurs had thought about aliens, they probably would have figured that aliens

980
00:44:09.040 --> 00:44:09.960
<v Seth Shostak>look like dinosaurs.

981
00:44:12.140 --> 00:44:13.640
<v Seth Shostak>But this ignores what we're doing.

982
00:44:13.940 --> 00:44:15.140
<v Seth Shostak>Here's a picture of my family tree.

983
00:44:15.240 --> 00:44:15.840
<v Seth Shostak>Not terribly interesting.

984
00:44:16.060 --> 00:44:18.520
<v Seth Shostak>But the interesting thing is actually what's on the right.

985
00:44:18.640 --> 00:44:19.560
<v Seth Shostak>Where are we going?

986
00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:21.700
<v Seth Shostak>Not something you think about very much.

987
00:44:21.720 --> 00:44:22.880
<v Seth Shostak>You probably don't wake up in the middle of the night.

988
00:44:23.080 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Seth Shostak>Marge, who's going to be running the planet a million years from now?

989
00:44:25.540 --> 00:44:26.160
<v Seth Shostak>You know, you think about that.

990
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:27.820
<v Seth Shostak>I said that yesterday, I think.

991
00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:30.020
<v Seth Shostak>It could very well be that we're only here.

992
00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:32.420
<v Seth Shostak>To invent our successors.

993
00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:33.120
<v Seth Shostak>Namely, the machines.

994
00:44:33.660 --> 00:44:35.060
<v Seth Shostak>We don't have thinking machines now.

995
00:44:35.220 --> 00:44:36.060
<v Seth Shostak>Everybody knows that.

996
00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:40.080
<v Seth Shostak>But that may not stay so for very long.

997
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:46.120
<v Seth Shostak>It may be that we can, in fact, build a machine that not only can do spreadsheets and word processing and all that stuff.

998
00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:47.560
<v Seth Shostak>But that can actually think.

999
00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:50.080
<v Seth Shostak>That can get up and stand up and tell you jokes.

1000
00:44:50.200 --> 00:44:51.280
<v Seth Shostak>That can write poetry.

1001
00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:52.340
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

1002
00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:53.740
<v Seth Shostak>That can teach physics.

1003
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:56.060
<v Seth Shostak>That can do all the things that humans do.

1004
00:44:56.640 --> 00:44:59.460
<v Seth Shostak>And the point there is that if we ever invent that machine.

1005
00:45:00.180 --> 00:45:02.400
<v Seth Shostak>It will evolve very quickly.

1006
00:45:02.560 --> 00:45:05.540
<v Seth Shostak>Because it isn't stuck as you are with Darwinian evolution.

1007
00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:09.140
<v Seth Shostak>It doesn't have to wait a thousand generations if it wants more memory.

1008
00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.400
<v Seth Shostak>If you want more memory, there's not much you can do about it.

1009
00:45:12.540 --> 00:45:17.340
<v Seth Shostak>A machine, you just go down to the local electronics store and buy it.

1010
00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:17.880
<v Seth Shostak>And put it in.

1011
00:45:17.980 --> 00:45:19.380
<v Seth Shostak>You can improve yourself as an individual.

1012
00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:21.480
<v Seth Shostak>The machines are following Moore's Law.

1013
00:45:21.860 --> 00:45:24.100
<v Seth Shostak>Darwinian evolution is not doing that.

1014
00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:25.560
<v Seth Shostak>In fact, humans are probably not getting smarter.

1015
00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:26.940
<v Seth Shostak>You know, you got three pound brains.

1016
00:45:27.080 --> 00:45:28.300
<v Seth Shostak>It would be great if we had five pound brains.

1017
00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:30.520
<v Seth Shostak>But women have voted not to do this.

1018
00:45:30.580 --> 00:45:33.820
<v Seth Shostak>They have difficulty enough giving birth to kids that are going to have three pound brains.

1019
00:45:34.180 --> 00:45:36.800
<v Seth Shostak>So, they're fundamental bottlenecks, if you will.

1020
00:45:36.860 --> 00:45:37.660
<v Seth Shostak>It's not going to happen.

1021
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:39.820
<v Seth Shostak>Sorry I said that.

1022
00:45:40.040 --> 00:45:40.420
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

1023
00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:40.840
<v Seth Shostak>Well.

1024
00:45:42.680 --> 00:45:44.700
<v Seth Shostak>But my point here is actually a serious one.

1025
00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:45.560
<v Seth Shostak>This is a...

1026
00:45:46.080 --> 00:45:47.060
<v Seth Shostak>You probably don't believe that.

1027
00:45:47.180 --> 00:45:50.460
<v Seth Shostak>But this is a plot made by Hans Moravec at Carnegie Mellon Institution.

1028
00:45:50.660 --> 00:45:52.720
<v Seth Shostak>And again, this date on the bottom here.

1029
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:54.040
<v Seth Shostak>Going from 1900 up to the present.

1030
00:45:54.160 --> 00:45:56.420
<v Seth Shostak>And what's plotted vertically is the speed of our fastest computers.

1031
00:45:57.040 --> 00:45:58.280
<v Seth Shostak>This is again a logbook.

1032
00:45:58.280 --> 00:45:58.760
<v Seth Shostak>It's a logarithmic plot.

1033
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:02.080
<v Seth Shostak>And you can see that the fastest computers, when this plot was made in 1998,

1034
00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:06.060
<v Seth Shostak>had about the computational capability of a spider or a bug or something like that.

1035
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:08.940
<v Seth Shostak>But the point is that by the year 2020, this is for sure,

1036
00:46:09.060 --> 00:46:13.680
<v Seth Shostak>by the year 2020, your desktop machine, the one you just buy, you know, at the local consumer outlet,

1037
00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:19.540
<v Seth Shostak>will have more computational capability and more memory than the person sitting next to you in this room.

1038
00:46:20.080 --> 00:46:20.440
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

1039
00:46:21.160 --> 00:46:23.400
<v Seth Shostak>And after that, it just keeps getting bigger.

1040
00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:27.260
<v Seth Shostak>So, that isn't to say that they can think, but they might be able to think.

1041
00:46:27.260 --> 00:46:35.040
<v Seth Shostak>So, my bottom line here is that if we develop artificial intelligence,

1042
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.740
<v Seth Shostak>presumably some other civilization has already done that.

1043
00:46:38.240 --> 00:46:38.680
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

1044
00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:40.440
<v Seth Shostak>We're not the first kids on the block.

1045
00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:43.700
<v Seth Shostak>The Earth was formed four and a half billion years ago.

1046
00:46:43.740 --> 00:46:46.480
<v Seth Shostak>The galaxy was formed something like 12 billion years ago.

1047
00:46:46.940 --> 00:46:47.380
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

1048
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.680
<v Seth Shostak>So, there's been plenty of time for this whole scenario to have played out elsewhere.

1049
00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:53.500
<v Seth Shostak>So, I guess what I'm trying to say is this.

1050
00:46:54.980 --> 00:46:56.320
<v Seth Shostak>If we pick up a signal,

1051
00:46:56.980 --> 00:47:01.200
<v Seth Shostak>I don't think any of you will be surprised to learn that that signal comes from a machine, namely a transmitter.

1052
00:47:01.720 --> 00:47:05.220
<v Seth Shostak>But I'm suggesting to you that you should be prepared for the very real possibility

1053
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:08.800
<v Seth Shostak>that that machine is simply in the service of another machine.

1054
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:13.800
<v Seth Shostak>And that biological intelligence, the kind that we have and that we assume that they have,

1055
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:20.640
<v Seth Shostak>might only be a cheap motel on the way to the real intelligence of the universe, which is all artificial.

1056
00:47:21.740 --> 00:47:24.180
<v Seth Shostak>Robert Hughes wrote about, and you all know this,

1057
00:47:24.260 --> 00:47:26.260
<v Seth Shostak>wrote about these fatal shores.

1058
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:32.780
<v Seth Shostak>And he mentioned how in the late 18th century when Jim Cook sailed into Botany Bay,

1059
00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:37.820
<v Seth Shostak>he shattered a watch glass that had hung over this continent for 40,000 years.

1060
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:43.860
<v Seth Shostak>Well, I think in the next 20 years, it's very likely that we will do the same for the whole planet.

1061
00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:47.020
<v Seth Shostak>A watch glass has sat over Earth for four and a half billion years,

1062
00:47:47.140 --> 00:47:49.680
<v Seth Shostak>and I think you're going to be the generation that breaks it.

1063
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:50.580
<v Seth Shostak>Thank you very much.

1064
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:12.060
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1065
00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:15.540
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1066
00:48:15.600 --> 00:48:16.240
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1067
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:16.560
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1068
00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:17.000
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1069
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:17.160
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1070
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:18.760
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1071
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:19.120
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1072
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:19.520
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1073
00:48:19.520 --> 00:48:21.040
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1074
00:48:21.040 --> 00:48:22.120
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1075
00:48:22.300 --> 00:48:24.720
<v Derek Abbott>Copyright 2019 IFA Productions All rights reserved.

1076
00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:29.100
<v Derek Abbott>and say your question, please.

1077
00:48:30.040 --> 00:48:31.940
<v Derek Abbott>While we're waiting for people to do that,

1078
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.400
<v Derek Abbott>I might just throw out a quick question

1079
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.000
<v Derek Abbott>to get things warmed up.

1080
00:48:36.540 --> 00:48:40.040
<v Derek Abbott>So, Seth, it seems to me that

1081
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:44.100
<v Derek Abbott>it doesn't stretch my imagination too much

1082
00:48:44.100 --> 00:48:46.120
<v Derek Abbott>to believe there's probably some bacteria

1083
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.900
<v Derek Abbott>in other planets in the universe,

1084
00:48:49.640 --> 00:48:52.120
<v Derek Abbott>but to think that there might be intelligent life,

1085
00:48:52.120 --> 00:48:56.240
<v Derek Abbott>intelligent enough to generate a radio transmitter,

1086
00:48:56.540 --> 00:48:58.380
<v Derek Abbott>I find that very hard to believe.

1087
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.320
<v Derek Abbott>And my argument against it is simply that

1088
00:49:03.060 --> 00:49:06.980
<v Derek Abbott>to get to that level of organization and civilization,

1089
00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:10.800
<v Derek Abbott>to do that requires many coincidences all in a row.

1090
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:13.500
<v Derek Abbott>Just to give you one particular example,

1091
00:49:13.680 --> 00:49:18.220
<v Derek Abbott>on Earth we happen to have trees that give you rubber.

1092
00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:21.300
<v Derek Abbott>And from that rubber we make tires,

1093
00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:24.600
<v Derek Abbott>for cars, and that helps our civilization

1094
00:49:24.600 --> 00:49:27.160
<v Derek Abbott>because we can build trucks and get organized

1095
00:49:27.160 --> 00:49:28.380
<v Derek Abbott>and all that sort of thing.

1096
00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:32.600
<v Derek Abbott>So if one of these stars has potential intelligent life

1097
00:49:32.600 --> 00:49:34.380
<v Derek Abbott>but doesn't have a tree with rubber,

1098
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.620
<v Derek Abbott>you're stuffed.

1099
00:49:38.680 --> 00:49:40.840
<v Derek Abbott>And that's only rubber.

1100
00:49:41.020 --> 00:49:42.540
<v Derek Abbott>So what about all the other things?

1101
00:49:42.620 --> 00:49:43.900
<v Derek Abbott>So what would be your answer to that?

1102
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:46.020
<v Seth Shostak>Well, it's a very good question.

1103
00:49:46.640 --> 00:49:49.420
<v Seth Shostak>I think that the rubber argument is a bit of a stretch.

1104
00:49:49.540 --> 00:49:50.280
<v Seth Shostak>But I...

1105
00:49:53.560 --> 00:49:54.860
<v Seth Shostak>But it is a good question.

1106
00:49:54.980 --> 00:49:56.060
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, let me give you another example

1107
00:49:56.060 --> 00:49:57.260
<v Seth Shostak>to support your point of view.

1108
00:49:57.320 --> 00:49:59.120
<v Seth Shostak>You all remember that 65 million years ago

1109
00:49:59.120 --> 00:50:00.780
<v Seth Shostak>the dinos were wiped out by a rock

1110
00:50:00.780 --> 00:50:02.820
<v Seth Shostak>that wiped out something like three quarters of all species.

1111
00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:06.360
<v Seth Shostak>And had that rock arrived in the Yucatan 20 minutes earlier,

1112
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:07.940
<v Seth Shostak>it would have missed the Earth,

1113
00:50:08.080 --> 00:50:10.000
<v Seth Shostak>and you wouldn't be sitting through this, right?

1114
00:50:10.120 --> 00:50:11.640
<v Seth Shostak>There would be dinosaurs in Adelaide.

1115
00:50:13.560 --> 00:50:14.620
<v Seth Shostak>And now you might say,

1116
00:50:14.700 --> 00:50:15.720
<v Seth Shostak>oh, well, but the dinosaur...

1117
00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:17.280
<v Seth Shostak>The counter-argument to that would have been,

1118
00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:18.200
<v Seth Shostak>oh, yes, okay, sure,

1119
00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:20.500
<v Seth Shostak>but we would still be sitting through it.

1120
00:50:20.540 --> 00:50:21.120
<v Seth Shostak>We'd still be suffering.

1121
00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:23.540
<v Seth Shostak>It's because the dinosaurs would have gotten smart

1122
00:50:23.540 --> 00:50:25.140
<v Seth Shostak>and the chairs would have holes in the back

1123
00:50:25.140 --> 00:50:25.980
<v Seth Shostak>so we could get our tails through.

1124
00:50:26.060 --> 00:50:27.220
<v Seth Shostak>But otherwise, it would be the same.

1125
00:50:28.860 --> 00:50:30.100
<v Seth Shostak>But that's not at all clear.

1126
00:50:30.380 --> 00:50:31.220
<v Seth Shostak>It's not at all clear.

1127
00:50:31.300 --> 00:50:33.260
<v Seth Shostak>In fact, I asked an evolutionary biologist that very question.

1128
00:50:33.340 --> 00:50:34.760
<v Seth Shostak>I said, suppose the dinos hadn't been wiped out.

1129
00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:35.420
<v Seth Shostak>Would they have gotten smart?

1130
00:50:35.660 --> 00:50:37.040
<v Seth Shostak>And he said to me, well, look, Seth,

1131
00:50:37.080 --> 00:50:40.080
<v Seth Shostak>the dinos had 150 million years to get smart and didn't.

1132
00:50:40.600 --> 00:50:42.940
<v Seth Shostak>What would another 65 million years have done for them?

1133
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:44.040
<v Seth Shostak>So it's unclear.

1134
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:49.300
<v Seth Shostak>But it is true that there's a line of research, actually.

1135
00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:50.460
<v Seth Shostak>There's several people who are worried

1136
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.500
<v Seth Shostak>about this very question

1137
00:50:51.500 --> 00:50:53.720
<v Seth Shostak>who look at other species to find out,

1138
00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:57.740
<v Seth Shostak>have any other species increased in intelligence

1139
00:50:57.740 --> 00:50:59.280
<v Seth Shostak>in the last, say, 50 million years?

1140
00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:00.400
<v Seth Shostak>And it turns out quite a few have.

1141
00:51:00.680 --> 00:51:03.960
<v Seth Shostak>It seems that intelligence is worthwhile to nature

1142
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:06.320
<v Seth Shostak>for certain kinds of critters, social critters.

1143
00:51:07.020 --> 00:51:09.200
<v Seth Shostak>Think of dolphins and whales, of course,

1144
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.900
<v Seth Shostak>obviously chimps, other primates,

1145
00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:12.540
<v Seth Shostak>also certain kinds of birds and so forth.

1146
00:51:12.580 --> 00:51:14.600
<v Seth Shostak>All of these are relatively more,

1147
00:51:14.680 --> 00:51:17.040
<v Seth Shostak>a lot more intelligent than any of the dinos were.

1148
00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:19.000
<v Seth Shostak>So there's been a trend toward intelligence

1149
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:20.280
<v Seth Shostak>over a range of species.

1150
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:21.400
<v Seth Shostak>There's been a trend toward intelligence

1151
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:23.440
<v Seth Shostak>suggesting that intelligence is something

1152
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:24.560
<v Seth Shostak>that nature will stumble into

1153
00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:26.260
<v Seth Shostak>more frequently than you might expect.

1154
00:51:26.420 --> 00:51:27.560
<v Seth Shostak>The other thing, and I mentioned this yesterday

1155
00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:29.620
<v Seth Shostak>about how men were merely a genetic experiment

1156
00:51:29.620 --> 00:51:30.480
<v Seth Shostak>being run by women.

1157
00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:33.480
<v Seth Shostak>This is a theory that I heard, actually,

1158
00:51:33.520 --> 00:51:34.520
<v Seth Shostak>along with Paul Davies, actually,

1159
00:51:34.600 --> 00:51:36.140
<v Seth Shostak>in Windsor Castle last year.

1160
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:40.600
<v Seth Shostak>The facts are that there's a strong selection

1161
00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:42.560
<v Seth Shostak>that's made by females of any species

1162
00:51:42.560 --> 00:51:44.680
<v Seth Shostak>to pick males that don't have too many mutations.

1163
00:51:45.660 --> 00:51:47.120
<v Seth Shostak>And in the case of primates,

1164
00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:49.080
<v Seth Shostak>one thing that they can do that,

1165
00:51:49.180 --> 00:51:49.760
<v Seth Shostak>you know,

1166
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:50.940
<v Seth Shostak>you know peacocks,

1167
00:51:51.040 --> 00:51:53.000
<v Seth Shostak>the bee hens look for all these big feathers,

1168
00:51:53.120 --> 00:51:54.720
<v Seth Shostak>not because the feathers themselves are valuable,

1169
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:56.620
<v Seth Shostak>but the feathers indicate that that peacock

1170
00:51:56.620 --> 00:51:57.780
<v Seth Shostak>has pretty good genes.

1171
00:51:58.560 --> 00:51:59.280
<v Seth Shostak>And not only that,

1172
00:51:59.380 --> 00:52:00.580
<v Seth Shostak>he's, you know, attracted to predators

1173
00:52:00.580 --> 00:52:01.740
<v Seth Shostak>and he's still walking around.

1174
00:52:02.020 --> 00:52:02.820
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, if he's made it this far,

1175
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:03.640
<v Seth Shostak>he must be good, right?

1176
00:52:04.220 --> 00:52:06.940
<v Seth Shostak>It's like Clint Eastwood walks into some western town,

1177
00:52:07.100 --> 00:52:07.280
<v Seth Shostak>you know,

1178
00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:08.360
<v Seth Shostak>and women all turn out.

1179
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:08.580
<v Seth Shostak>Why?

1180
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.500
<v Seth Shostak>If he's made it this far,

1181
00:52:09.500 --> 00:52:10.340
<v Seth Shostak>he must be good genes.

1182
00:52:10.940 --> 00:52:11.280
<v Seth Shostak>So,

1183
00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:13.100
<v Seth Shostak>and what he was suggesting

1184
00:52:13.100 --> 00:52:14.000
<v Seth Shostak>that this guy from New Mexico,

1185
00:52:14.120 --> 00:52:14.480
<v Seth Shostak>Jeff Miller,

1186
00:52:14.560 --> 00:52:15.780
<v Seth Shostak>was suggesting that, indeed,

1187
00:52:16.420 --> 00:52:18.920
<v Seth Shostak>our brain is wired into about half the human genome.

1188
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.080
<v Seth Shostak>See, so if your genes

1189
00:52:21.080 --> 00:52:22.700
<v Seth Shostak>are a little bit messed up,

1190
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:25.060
<v Seth Shostak>then your brain is not wired up terribly well.

1191
00:52:25.420 --> 00:52:26.780
<v Seth Shostak>And so that what women are doing

1192
00:52:26.780 --> 00:52:28.520
<v Seth Shostak>is they're trying to evaluate your genes

1193
00:52:28.520 --> 00:52:29.640
<v Seth Shostak>by using an indicator,

1194
00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:30.740
<v Seth Shostak>in this case, the brain.

1195
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:32.900
<v Seth Shostak>And so how do the men display the indicator?

1196
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.220
<v Seth Shostak>Well, you could go around to cocktail parties

1197
00:52:34.220 --> 00:52:34.900
<v Seth Shostak>and take out your brain,

1198
00:52:34.940 --> 00:52:35.640
<v Seth Shostak>pass it around to the women.

1199
00:52:35.740 --> 00:52:36.340
<v Seth Shostak>It turns out,

1200
00:52:36.340 --> 00:52:37.580
<v Seth Shostak>that's a social blunder.

1201
00:52:37.740 --> 00:52:38.860
<v Seth Shostak>But, what you can do,

1202
00:52:39.660 --> 00:52:40.460
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, I tried it,

1203
00:52:40.540 --> 00:52:40.820
<v Seth Shostak>but,

1204
00:52:41.780 --> 00:52:43.180
<v Seth Shostak>but if, if, if, if,

1205
00:52:43.200 --> 00:52:44.340
<v Seth Shostak>if the men are, you know,

1206
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:46.460
<v Seth Shostak>can have a good line of patter,

1207
00:52:46.660 --> 00:52:47.180
<v Seth Shostak>or they're witty,

1208
00:52:47.260 --> 00:52:47.880
<v Seth Shostak>or they can sing,

1209
00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:48.500
<v Seth Shostak>or something like that,

1210
00:52:48.520 --> 00:52:49.720
<v Seth Shostak>that shows that their brains are wired

1211
00:52:49.720 --> 00:52:49.980
<v Seth Shostak>up right.

1212
00:52:50.080 --> 00:52:51.260
<v Seth Shostak>Not that the women care about that,

1213
00:52:51.340 --> 00:52:52.380
<v Seth Shostak>but they do care about the fact

1214
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:52.920
<v Seth Shostak>that the gene,

1215
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:54.260
<v Seth Shostak>the genome is good.

1216
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.360
<v Seth Shostak>So, this is a very common mechanism,

1217
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:57.100
<v Seth Shostak>this is a mechanism

1218
00:52:57.100 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Seth Shostak>that would apply over many species.

1219
00:52:58.460 --> 00:52:59.100
<v Seth Shostak>Very long answer.

1220
00:52:59.240 --> 00:53:00.500
<v Seth Shostak>It seems that intelligence

1221
00:53:00.500 --> 00:53:01.320
<v Seth Shostak>may not be rare,

1222
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:02.340
<v Seth Shostak>but we don't really know

1223
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:03.140
<v Seth Shostak>the answer to your question

1224
00:53:03.140 --> 00:53:04.540
<v Seth Shostak>until we find other intelligence.

1225
00:53:04.780 --> 00:53:05.800
<v Seth Shostak>Okay, we have some questions

1226
00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:06.320
<v Derek Abbott>from the audience.

1227
00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:07.260
<v Derek Abbott>This lady here, please.

1228
00:53:08.180 --> 00:53:09.740
<v Speaker 3>Seth, thank you so much

1229
00:53:09.740 --> 00:53:10.420
<v Speaker 3>for your talk,

1230
00:53:10.420 --> 00:53:11.860
<v Speaker 3>and particularly your humor.

1231
00:53:11.980 --> 00:53:13.480
<v Speaker 3>You realize that is one

1232
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:14.760
<v Speaker 3>of the alien characteristics,

1233
00:53:14.980 --> 00:53:15.500
<v Speaker 3>of course.

1234
00:53:16.100 --> 00:53:18.280
<v Speaker 3>They all have a wonderful sense of humor.

1235
00:53:18.340 --> 00:53:18.740
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, don't they?

1236
00:53:21.040 --> 00:53:22.820
<v Speaker 3>Have you done any research

1237
00:53:22.820 --> 00:53:24.560
<v Speaker 3>on the dog star Sirius?

1238
00:53:25.820 --> 00:53:26.620
<v Speaker 3>No, not,

1239
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:28.160
<v Speaker 3>no, personally I haven't.

1240
00:53:28.220 --> 00:53:28.940
<v Speaker 3>Sirius is a,

1241
00:53:30.140 --> 00:53:30.980
<v Seth Shostak>I mean, you know,

1242
00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:31.760
<v Seth Shostak>it's a well-studied star

1243
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:33.200
<v Seth Shostak>because it's nearby.

1244
00:53:33.340 --> 00:53:34.120
<v Seth Shostak>It's, you know,

1245
00:53:34.120 --> 00:53:35.200
<v Seth Shostak>apparently very bright,

1246
00:53:35.300 --> 00:53:35.720
<v Seth Shostak>and in fact,

1247
00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:36.500
<v Seth Shostak>intrinsically rather bright.

1248
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:37.700
<v Seth Shostak>It's what's called

1249
00:53:37.700 --> 00:53:38.440
<v Seth Shostak>an early type star,

1250
00:53:38.580 --> 00:53:39.060
<v Seth Shostak>which is to say

1251
00:53:39.060 --> 00:53:39.780
<v Seth Shostak>it's considerably hotter

1252
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:40.420
<v Seth Shostak>than the sun.

1253
00:53:40.660 --> 00:53:41.420
<v Seth Shostak>It's probably not

1254
00:53:41.420 --> 00:53:42.640
<v Seth Shostak>a very good one for life,

1255
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:43.600
<v Seth Shostak>I have to tell you,

1256
00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:45.260
<v Seth Shostak>because these bigger stars

1257
00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:46.600
<v Seth Shostak>don't last very long.

1258
00:53:47.260 --> 00:53:48.200
<v Seth Shostak>You want a star,

1259
00:53:48.260 --> 00:53:49.240
<v Seth Shostak>the brightest stars,

1260
00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:49.700
<v Seth Shostak>most of the stars,

1261
00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:50.700
<v Seth Shostak>you see with your naked eye,

1262
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.100
<v Seth Shostak>by the way,

1263
00:53:51.120 --> 00:53:52.500
<v Seth Shostak>I mentioned this to you,

1264
00:53:52.580 --> 00:53:54.040
<v Seth Shostak>most of the stars you know

1265
00:53:54.040 --> 00:53:54.980
<v Seth Shostak>by name,

1266
00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:55.500
<v Seth Shostak>Betelgeuse,

1267
00:53:55.640 --> 00:53:55.780
<v Seth Shostak>you know,

1268
00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:56.740
<v Seth Shostak>all these things that have names,

1269
00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:57.660
<v Seth Shostak>Arabic names,

1270
00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:57.940
<v Seth Shostak>nice,

1271
00:53:58.080 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Seth Shostak>very attractive Arabic names,

1272
00:53:59.520 --> 00:53:59.760
<v Seth Shostak>actually.

1273
00:54:00.060 --> 00:54:01.420
<v Seth Shostak>Those are all giant stars,

1274
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:01.900
<v Seth Shostak>most of them.

1275
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:02.700
<v Seth Shostak>They're giant stars.

1276
00:54:03.160 --> 00:54:04.620
<v Seth Shostak>And giant stars go through

1277
00:54:04.620 --> 00:54:05.640
<v Seth Shostak>their fuel very quickly,

1278
00:54:05.720 --> 00:54:06.740
<v Seth Shostak>and they burn out

1279
00:54:06.740 --> 00:54:08.040
<v Seth Shostak>in a few tens of millions of years,

1280
00:54:08.100 --> 00:54:08.720
<v Seth Shostak>and they blow up,

1281
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:09.260
<v Seth Shostak>which, you know,

1282
00:54:09.260 --> 00:54:10.020
<v Seth Shostak>can ruin your whole day

1283
00:54:10.020 --> 00:54:11.060
<v Seth Shostak>if you're on a planet around it.

1284
00:54:11.340 --> 00:54:13.000
<v Seth Shostak>The point is that these stars

1285
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:14.400
<v Seth Shostak>are usually not very suitable

1286
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:15.460
<v Seth Shostak>for any sort of biology,

1287
00:54:15.620 --> 00:54:16.440
<v Seth Shostak>let alone intelligence.

1288
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.020
<v Seth Shostak>But that wasn't the answer

1289
00:54:19.020 --> 00:54:19.400
<v Seth Shostak>you wanted.

1290
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:22.440
<v Speaker 3>No, I'll ask you to rethink it,

1291
00:54:22.560 --> 00:54:23.980
<v Speaker 3>and perhaps you'll have your answer

1292
00:54:23.980 --> 00:54:24.740
<v Speaker 3>in a couple of years.

1293
00:54:24.740 --> 00:54:26.300
<v Seth Shostak>We actually do look at all nearby stars

1294
00:54:26.300 --> 00:54:27.160
<v Seth Shostak>within 50 light years,

1295
00:54:27.220 --> 00:54:27.640
<v Seth Shostak>so serious,

1296
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:28.960
<v Seth Shostak>I'm not sure what the distance is.

1297
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:29.780
<v Derek Abbott>Okay, we'll move on

1298
00:54:29.780 --> 00:54:30.380
<v Derek Abbott>to the next question.

1299
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:31.560
<v Derek Abbott>The lights are a bit bright,

1300
00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:32.920
<v Derek Abbott>so I can't tell if there's anyone

1301
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:33.900
<v Derek Abbott>in the gallery there.

1302
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:35.140
<v Derek Abbott>Can you wave if you're there?

1303
00:54:35.540 --> 00:54:35.940
<v Derek Abbott>No?

1304
00:54:36.060 --> 00:54:37.040
<v Derek Abbott>Okay, we'll move down

1305
00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:38.700
<v Derek Abbott>to the next question

1306
00:54:38.700 --> 00:54:39.440
<v Derek Abbott>down here, then.

1307
00:54:39.700 --> 00:54:40.420
<v Speaker 5>Good afternoon.

1308
00:54:40.600 --> 00:54:42.560
<v Speaker 5>I'd just like your thoughts

1309
00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:45.660
<v Speaker 5>on the mounting number of pilots

1310
00:54:45.660 --> 00:54:47.000
<v Speaker 5>that have sightings

1311
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.400
<v Speaker 5>of anomalous flips on the radars.

1312
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:49.660
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1313
00:54:49.720 --> 00:54:50.480
<v Seth Shostak>Well, it's quite true

1314
00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:51.820
<v Seth Shostak>that there are roughly 10...

1315
00:54:51.820 --> 00:54:53.120
<v Seth Shostak>Everybody heard the question, I think.

1316
00:54:53.980 --> 00:54:55.380
<v Seth Shostak>There are on the order of 10,000

1317
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Seth Shostak>reported UFO sightings every year.

1318
00:54:56.980 --> 00:54:58.420
<v Seth Shostak>That number has not abated.

1319
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:01.260
<v Seth Shostak>And many of them are from pilots.

1320
00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:01.880
<v Seth Shostak>In fact, there's somebody

1321
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:03.160
<v Seth Shostak>at this conference who was a pilot

1322
00:55:03.160 --> 00:55:04.160
<v Seth Shostak>who was telling me about something

1323
00:55:04.160 --> 00:55:04.940
<v Seth Shostak>that they had seen.

1324
00:55:05.460 --> 00:55:06.700
<v Seth Shostak>All I can tell you is this.

1325
00:55:07.820 --> 00:55:09.280
<v Seth Shostak>It isn't that people question

1326
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:09.900
<v Seth Shostak>whether these people

1327
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:10.880
<v Seth Shostak>have seen something.

1328
00:55:11.160 --> 00:55:12.140
<v Seth Shostak>That isn't the issue.

1329
00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:13.140
<v Seth Shostak>The question, of course,

1330
00:55:13.160 --> 00:55:15.080
<v Seth Shostak>is what have they seen, right?

1331
00:55:15.180 --> 00:55:16.280
<v Seth Shostak>And pilots are, you know,

1332
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.220
<v Seth Shostak>they're familiar with the sorts

1333
00:55:18.220 --> 00:55:19.300
<v Seth Shostak>of things they see every day,

1334
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.700
<v Seth Shostak>right?

1335
00:55:19.700 --> 00:55:20.500
<v Seth Shostak>But unusual things

1336
00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:21.600
<v Seth Shostak>like incoming meteors

1337
00:55:21.600 --> 00:55:22.640
<v Seth Shostak>they're not so familiar with.

1338
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:24.760
<v Seth Shostak>So they could get confused.

1339
00:55:25.100 --> 00:55:25.900
<v Seth Shostak>What has happened

1340
00:55:25.900 --> 00:55:27.520
<v Seth Shostak>in terms of the UFO phenomenon,

1341
00:55:27.640 --> 00:55:28.700
<v Seth Shostak>just very, very briefly,

1342
00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:30.260
<v Seth Shostak>it began for real

1343
00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:31.900
<v Seth Shostak>in the late 1940s, as you know.

1344
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:32.780
<v Seth Shostak>Okay?

1345
00:55:32.900 --> 00:55:33.980
<v Seth Shostak>And keep in mind

1346
00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:34.780
<v Seth Shostak>that after the war,

1347
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:35.400
<v Seth Shostak>suddenly there were

1348
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:35.960
<v Seth Shostak>a lot more things

1349
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:37.600
<v Seth Shostak>in the sky to be seen.

1350
00:55:38.220 --> 00:55:39.680
<v Seth Shostak>Something to keep in mind.

1351
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:40.660
<v Seth Shostak>But in any case,

1352
00:55:40.660 --> 00:55:41.560
<v Seth Shostak>there were these reports

1353
00:55:41.560 --> 00:55:42.920
<v Seth Shostak>of UFOs.

1354
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:44.540
<v Seth Shostak>That term was coined very early.

1355
00:55:44.660 --> 00:55:46.040
<v Seth Shostak>And the U.S. Air Force

1356
00:55:46.040 --> 00:55:47.040
<v Seth Shostak>and other organizations,

1357
00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:47.860
<v Seth Shostak>but in particular,

1358
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:48.500
<v Seth Shostak>the U.S. Air Force

1359
00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:49.620
<v Seth Shostak>became interested in it.

1360
00:55:49.700 --> 00:55:50.520
<v Seth Shostak>And they were interested

1361
00:55:50.520 --> 00:55:51.160
<v Seth Shostak>in the phenomenon,

1362
00:55:51.240 --> 00:55:51.980
<v Seth Shostak>not, I don't think,

1363
00:55:52.020 --> 00:55:52.880
<v Seth Shostak>because they expected

1364
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:53.400
<v Seth Shostak>that these were

1365
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:54.460
<v Seth Shostak>little alien guys

1366
00:55:54.460 --> 00:55:55.640
<v Seth Shostak>sailing through the skies.

1367
00:55:55.780 --> 00:55:56.680
<v Seth Shostak>But they were concerned

1368
00:55:56.680 --> 00:55:57.180
<v Seth Shostak>that there were

1369
00:55:57.180 --> 00:55:58.080
<v Seth Shostak>Soviet aircraft

1370
00:55:58.080 --> 00:55:59.100
<v Seth Shostak>that they didn't know about.

1371
00:55:59.240 --> 00:55:59.860
<v Seth Shostak>And they wanted to know

1372
00:55:59.860 --> 00:56:00.480
<v Seth Shostak>what these things were.

1373
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:01.860
<v Seth Shostak>So what they would do

1374
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:03.420
<v Seth Shostak>is bring together, you know,

1375
00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:04.220
<v Seth Shostak>teams of academics

1376
00:56:04.220 --> 00:56:05.060
<v Seth Shostak>and they say, you know,

1377
00:56:05.060 --> 00:56:05.980
<v Seth Shostak>figure out what this stuff is.

1378
00:56:06.240 --> 00:56:07.380
<v Seth Shostak>And the academics would say,

1379
00:56:07.420 --> 00:56:08.760
<v Seth Shostak>bring us the 100 best cases,

1380
00:56:09.200 --> 00:56:10.000
<v Seth Shostak>which they did.

1381
00:56:10.180 --> 00:56:10.780
<v Seth Shostak>And this happened

1382
00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:11.780
<v Seth Shostak>three times at least.

1383
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:12.700
<v Seth Shostak>And it turned out

1384
00:56:12.700 --> 00:56:13.740
<v Seth Shostak>that they could explain

1385
00:56:13.740 --> 00:56:15.120
<v Seth Shostak>90% of those cases

1386
00:56:15.120 --> 00:56:16.980
<v Seth Shostak>as very prosaic phenomena.

1387
00:56:17.220 --> 00:56:18.020
<v Seth Shostak>You know, aircraft,

1388
00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:18.460
<v Seth Shostak>balloons,

1389
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:19.380
<v Seth Shostak>shrimp boats,

1390
00:56:20.140 --> 00:56:20.900
<v Seth Shostak>fishing boats

1391
00:56:20.900 --> 00:56:22.120
<v Seth Shostak>in the Sea of Japan,

1392
00:56:22.340 --> 00:56:23.660
<v Seth Shostak>and, you know, stars,

1393
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:24.680
<v Seth Shostak>bright stars, planets,

1394
00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:25.600
<v Seth Shostak>there's a whole laundry list

1395
00:56:25.600 --> 00:56:26.200
<v Seth Shostak>of stuff.

1396
00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:27.600
<v Seth Shostak>And there were about

1397
00:56:27.600 --> 00:56:28.340
<v Seth Shostak>10% of them

1398
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:29.120
<v Seth Shostak>that they couldn't explain.

1399
00:56:29.980 --> 00:56:30.780
<v Seth Shostak>And that's it.

1400
00:56:30.980 --> 00:56:32.020
<v Seth Shostak>That's the bottom line.

1401
00:56:32.180 --> 00:56:33.500
<v Seth Shostak>Now, you could say,

1402
00:56:33.540 --> 00:56:34.520
<v Seth Shostak>well, all right,

1403
00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:36.060
<v Seth Shostak>those 10% include

1404
00:56:36.060 --> 00:56:37.340
<v Seth Shostak>the alien craft,

1405
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:39.040
<v Seth Shostak>which are never seen

1406
00:56:39.040 --> 00:56:40.600
<v Seth Shostak>by satellites overhead, right?

1407
00:56:40.660 --> 00:56:42.240
<v Seth Shostak>Never seen by NORAD radar

1408
00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:42.880
<v Seth Shostak>looking up.

1409
00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:43.760
<v Seth Shostak>Never land.

1410
00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:45.980
<v Seth Shostak>It's as if the Spaniards

1411
00:56:45.980 --> 00:56:46.860
<v Seth Shostak>had come to the Americas

1412
00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:48.160
<v Seth Shostak>and sailed off the coast

1413
00:56:48.160 --> 00:56:48.960
<v Seth Shostak>for 50 years

1414
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.680
<v Seth Shostak>teasing the aliens

1415
00:56:49.680 --> 00:56:49.940
<v Seth Shostak>and the Indians.

1416
00:56:50.380 --> 00:56:50.780
<v Seth Shostak>Right?

1417
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:51.660
<v Seth Shostak>But never landing.

1418
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:52.880
<v Seth Shostak>It doesn't make any sense.

1419
00:56:53.080 --> 00:56:53.580
<v Seth Shostak>But, okay,

1420
00:56:53.640 --> 00:56:54.740
<v Seth Shostak>so you have that 10%.

1421
00:56:55.780 --> 00:56:57.080
<v Seth Shostak>10% are unexplained.

1422
00:56:57.240 --> 00:56:57.940
<v Seth Shostak>And what does that mean?

1423
00:56:58.080 --> 00:56:58.980
<v Seth Shostak>I would only suggest

1424
00:56:58.980 --> 00:56:59.980
<v Seth Shostak>you just consider this.

1425
00:57:00.100 --> 00:57:01.080
<v Seth Shostak>The Adelaide Police Department

1426
00:57:01.080 --> 00:57:02.040
<v Seth Shostak>may solve 80%

1427
00:57:02.040 --> 00:57:02.720
<v Seth Shostak>of the murders here.

1428
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:03.180
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know,

1429
00:57:03.260 --> 00:57:03.900
<v Seth Shostak>but probably.

1430
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:04.680
<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

1431
00:57:04.740 --> 00:57:06.160
<v Seth Shostak>And all 80% of those murders

1432
00:57:06.160 --> 00:57:07.580
<v Seth Shostak>are committed by humans

1433
00:57:07.580 --> 00:57:08.400
<v Seth Shostak>against other humans.

1434
00:57:08.640 --> 00:57:09.620
<v Seth Shostak>But what about the 20%

1435
00:57:09.620 --> 00:57:10.380
<v Seth Shostak>they didn't solve?

1436
00:57:11.860 --> 00:57:12.940
<v Seth Shostak>Could those be aliens

1437
00:57:12.940 --> 00:57:14.120
<v Seth Shostak>murdering Adelaideans?

1438
00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:14.940
<v Seth Shostak>Could be.

1439
00:57:15.740 --> 00:57:16.760
<v Seth Shostak>But you've got to say

1440
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:17.860
<v Seth Shostak>that's a bit of a stretch.

1441
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:19.660
<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

1442
00:57:19.680 --> 00:57:20.020
<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

1443
00:57:20.140 --> 00:57:21.540
<v Derek Abbott>We have three more

1444
00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:22.380
<v Derek Abbott>questioners here

1445
00:57:22.380 --> 00:57:23.800
<v Derek Abbott>and we have three minutes there.

1446
00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:24.300
<v Derek Abbott>Okay.

1447
00:57:24.500 --> 00:57:25.740
<v Derek Abbott>Be brief.

1448
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:26.760
<v Seth Shostak>I'm sure these guys

1449
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:27.780
<v Derek Abbott>will be good and be brief,

1450
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.880
<v Derek Abbott>but I'll ask you to be brief.

1451
00:57:30.140 --> 00:57:30.900
<v Derek Abbott>Next one, please.

1452
00:57:31.080 --> 00:57:31.560
<v Speaker 6>Quick question.

1453
00:57:32.160 --> 00:57:33.020
<v Speaker 6>I'm one of the people

1454
00:57:33.020 --> 00:57:34.500
<v Speaker 6>who runs the SETI screensaver.

1455
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:35.740
<v Speaker 6>How much difference

1456
00:57:35.740 --> 00:57:36.540
<v Speaker 6>do all these guys

1457
00:57:36.540 --> 00:57:37.140
<v Speaker 6>running the screens

1458
00:57:37.140 --> 00:57:38.320
<v Speaker 6>and girls running

1459
00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:39.320
<v Speaker 6>these screensavers make?

1460
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:40.480
<v Speaker 6>Is that a big contribution

1461
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:41.440
<v Speaker 6>to your computing power?

1462
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:42.240
<v Seth Shostak>Four and a half million people

1463
00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:43.360
<v Seth Shostak>have downloaded that screensaver.

1464
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:44.320
<v Seth Shostak>It's not our project.

1465
00:57:44.420 --> 00:57:45.060
<v Seth Shostak>It's a project

1466
00:57:45.060 --> 00:57:45.980
<v Seth Shostak>of the University of California

1467
00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:47.180
<v Seth Shostak>Berkeley SETI project.

1468
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:48.420
<v Seth Shostak>And those data

1469
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:49.140
<v Seth Shostak>that are being processed

1470
00:57:49.140 --> 00:57:49.660
<v Seth Shostak>by that screensaver

1471
00:57:49.680 --> 00:57:50.840
<v Seth Shostak>are the most intensely

1472
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:52.100
<v Seth Shostak>looked at SETI data

1473
00:57:52.100 --> 00:57:53.020
<v Seth Shostak>in the world for sure.

1474
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:54.200
<v Seth Shostak>It's unfortunately

1475
00:57:54.200 --> 00:57:54.980
<v Seth Shostak>not particularly

1476
00:57:54.980 --> 00:57:56.280
<v Seth Shostak>sensitive data

1477
00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:57.380
<v Seth Shostak>that you're working on.

1478
00:57:57.520 --> 00:57:58.880
<v Seth Shostak>But it could be

1479
00:57:58.880 --> 00:57:59.540
<v Seth Shostak>that you will be

1480
00:57:59.540 --> 00:58:00.060
<v Seth Shostak>the lucky one.

1481
00:58:00.180 --> 00:58:01.080
<v Seth Shostak>All I would say

1482
00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:02.420
<v Seth Shostak>is don't book your flight

1483
00:58:02.420 --> 00:58:04.080
<v Seth Shostak>to Stockholm just yet.

1484
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:07.260
<v Derek Abbott>Next question, please.

1485
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:08.380
<v Speaker 4>Yes.

1486
00:58:08.980 --> 00:58:10.020
<v Speaker 4>Arthur C. Clarke

1487
00:58:10.020 --> 00:58:11.820
<v Speaker 4>said once upon a time

1488
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:14.980
<v Speaker 4>that the more advanced

1489
00:58:14.980 --> 00:58:15.760
<v Speaker 4>a race becomes,

1490
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:17.360
<v Speaker 4>the more spiritually advanced

1491
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:18.480
<v Speaker 4>the race becomes

1492
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:19.660
<v Speaker 4>and the less war

1493
00:58:19.680 --> 00:58:19.820
<v Speaker 4>like.

1494
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:21.700
<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure

1495
00:58:21.700 --> 00:58:23.420
<v Speaker 4>that that really works

1496
00:58:24.340 --> 00:58:25.760
<v Speaker 4>because the law of nature

1497
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:27.900
<v Speaker 4>is you kill or be killed.

1498
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.000
<v Speaker 4>What's your opinion on that?

1499
00:58:30.640 --> 00:58:31.960
<v Seth Shostak>Well, you're asking

1500
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:32.700
<v Seth Shostak>alien sociology

1501
00:58:32.700 --> 00:58:35.420
<v Seth Shostak>and I have to tell you

1502
00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:36.860
<v Seth Shostak>the data on alien sociology

1503
00:58:36.860 --> 00:58:38.000
<v Seth Shostak>are rather sparse.

1504
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:40.620
<v Seth Shostak>So of course we don't know.

1505
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:41.960
<v Seth Shostak>I mean if this scenario

1506
00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:43.160
<v Seth Shostak>I just painted here

1507
00:58:43.160 --> 00:58:43.680
<v Seth Shostak>to be provocative

1508
00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:44.840
<v Seth Shostak>has any merit

1509
00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:46.780
<v Seth Shostak>that really the intelligence,

1510
00:58:47.020 --> 00:58:47.760
<v Seth Shostak>the dominant intelligence

1511
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:48.340
<v Seth Shostak>of the galaxy

1512
00:58:48.340 --> 00:58:49.460
<v Seth Shostak>is not biological intelligence

1513
00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:49.960
<v Seth Shostak>at all.

1514
00:58:50.020 --> 00:58:50.680
<v Seth Shostak>Then it has completely

1515
00:58:50.680 --> 00:58:51.300
<v Seth Shostak>different motives.

1516
00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:52.960
<v Seth Shostak>What's the interest

1517
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:54.040
<v Seth Shostak>of a big machine

1518
00:58:54.040 --> 00:58:54.960
<v Seth Shostak>that keeps getting smarter

1519
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:55.280
<v Seth Shostak>all the time?

1520
00:58:55.380 --> 00:58:56.000
<v Seth Shostak>What does it do

1521
00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:56.960
<v Seth Shostak>to keep itself interested

1522
00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:57.420
<v Seth Shostak>in things?

1523
00:58:57.820 --> 00:58:58.920
<v Seth Shostak>And that's, you know,

1524
00:58:58.920 --> 00:58:59.580
<v Seth Shostak>I have no idea.

1525
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:01.080
<v Seth Shostak>All I would say is this.

1526
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:02.560
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know

1527
00:59:02.560 --> 00:59:03.780
<v Seth Shostak>whether the advanced aliens

1528
00:59:03.780 --> 00:59:05.080
<v Seth Shostak>are Pacific or not.

1529
00:59:05.680 --> 00:59:06.860
<v Seth Shostak>If they were to come here,

1530
00:59:07.060 --> 00:59:08.220
<v Seth Shostak>I personally would

1531
00:59:08.220 --> 00:59:08.980
<v Seth Shostak>grab a woman

1532
00:59:08.980 --> 00:59:09.520
<v Seth Shostak>and head for the hills

1533
00:59:09.520 --> 00:59:09.960
<v Seth Shostak>because

1534
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:12.260
<v Seth Shostak>it's been the experience

1535
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:12.940
<v Seth Shostak>at least here on Earth

1536
00:59:12.940 --> 00:59:14.420
<v Seth Shostak>that the ones that travel

1537
00:59:14.420 --> 00:59:15.300
<v Seth Shostak>to where you are

1538
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:16.320
<v Seth Shostak>are not the nice ones.

1539
00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:24.180
<v Derek Abbott>Next one please.

1540
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:25.300
<v Speaker 7>Over about the last

1541
00:59:25.300 --> 00:59:27.220
<v Speaker 7>well probably 70, 80 years

1542
00:59:27.220 --> 00:59:28.960
<v Speaker 7>we've been spraying radio waves

1543
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:29.760
<v Speaker 7>throughout the universe.

1544
00:59:30.580 --> 00:59:32.820
<v Speaker 7>As we become more advanced

1545
00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:34.080
<v Speaker 7>we become more efficient.

1546
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:36.560
<v Speaker 7>It seems to me

1547
00:59:36.560 --> 00:59:37.540
<v Speaker 7>that by the time

1548
00:59:37.540 --> 00:59:39.740
<v Speaker 7>we are perhaps at the stage

1549
00:59:39.740 --> 00:59:41.180
<v Speaker 7>we're hoping the aliens would be

1550
00:59:41.180 --> 00:59:42.560
<v Speaker 7>that they would be

1551
00:59:42.560 --> 00:59:43.600
<v Speaker 7>very, very efficient

1552
00:59:43.600 --> 00:59:45.340
<v Speaker 7>with their radio communications

1553
00:59:45.340 --> 00:59:46.360
<v Speaker 7>or whatever communications

1554
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:47.220
<v Speaker 7>they have

1555
00:59:47.220 --> 00:59:48.720
<v Speaker 7>and not be spraying it

1556
00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:49.660
<v Speaker 7>around the universe.

1557
00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:51.840
<v Speaker 7>And therefore I'm asking you

1558
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:53.900
<v Speaker 7>is the radio waves

1559
00:59:53.900 --> 00:59:54.760
<v Speaker 7>that you're looking for

1560
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:55.760
<v Speaker 7>the ideal way to look?

1561
00:59:56.060 --> 00:59:56.420
<v Seth Shostak>Yeah.

1562
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:57.440
<v Seth Shostak>I don't know the answer to that.

1563
00:59:57.520 --> 00:59:58.480
<v Seth Shostak>And that's a very good point.

1564
00:59:58.580 --> 00:59:59.640
<v Seth Shostak>It is true that, you know,

1565
00:59:59.640 --> 01:00:00.540
<v Seth Shostak>in another 20 years

1566
01:00:00.540 --> 01:00:02.000
<v Seth Shostak>you won't get your television signals

1567
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:03.040
<v Seth Shostak>from, you know,

1568
01:00:03.040 --> 01:00:04.820
<v Seth Shostak>big red and white antennas

1569
01:00:04.820 --> 01:00:06.160
<v Seth Shostak>on the hills outside of town

1570
01:00:06.160 --> 01:00:07.800
<v Seth Shostak>spewing, as you say,

1571
01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:08.940
<v Seth Shostak>signals into space

1572
01:00:08.940 --> 01:00:10.200
<v Seth Shostak>in a very inefficient way.

1573
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:10.940
<v Seth Shostak>Everything will come

1574
01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:11.360
<v Seth Shostak>into your house

1575
01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:12.500
<v Seth Shostak>via a fiber optic cable

1576
01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:13.240
<v Seth Shostak>or something like that.

1577
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:14.640
<v Seth Shostak>And consequently

1578
01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:16.160
<v Seth Shostak>Earth will look very quiet

1579
01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:16.720
<v Seth Shostak>from space.

1580
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:18.000
<v Seth Shostak>And presumably

1581
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:18.960
<v Seth Shostak>the aliens have already done that.

1582
01:00:19.020 --> 01:00:19.400
<v Seth Shostak>But there's,

1583
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:20.240
<v Seth Shostak>there's always need

1584
01:00:20.240 --> 01:00:22.300
<v Seth Shostak>for some powerful transmitters.

1585
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:23.900
<v Seth Shostak>You need radars

1586
01:00:23.900 --> 01:00:24.560
<v Seth Shostak>to look for incoming

1587
01:00:24.560 --> 01:00:25.660
<v Seth Shostak>long period comets

1588
01:00:25.660 --> 01:00:26.540
<v Seth Shostak>which otherwise could,

1589
01:00:26.600 --> 01:00:27.140
<v Seth Shostak>you know,

1590
01:00:27.180 --> 01:00:28.240
<v Seth Shostak>wreak havoc and destruction.

1591
01:00:28.660 --> 01:00:30.060
<v Seth Shostak>You might have colonies nearby

1592
01:00:30.060 --> 01:00:30.900
<v Seth Shostak>that you have to have

1593
01:00:30.900 --> 01:00:31.820
<v Seth Shostak>telecommunications with.

1594
01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:32.360
<v Seth Shostak>It's very,

1595
01:00:32.420 --> 01:00:32.980
<v Seth Shostak>I would say,

1596
01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:34.000
<v Seth Shostak>let me just put it this way.

1597
01:00:35.180 --> 01:00:35.980
<v Seth Shostak>Speculation here is fun

1598
01:00:35.980 --> 01:00:36.740
<v Seth Shostak>but probably not

1599
01:00:36.740 --> 01:00:37.340
<v Seth Shostak>terribly profitable.

1600
01:00:37.560 --> 01:00:38.680
<v Seth Shostak>If you asked Marconi

1601
01:00:38.680 --> 01:00:39.360
<v Seth Shostak>a hundred years ago,

1602
01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:40.000
<v Seth Shostak>hey,

1603
01:00:40.420 --> 01:00:41.560
<v Seth Shostak>Gigliani or whatever his name was,

1604
01:00:41.640 --> 01:00:42.420
<v Seth Shostak>now what do you think

1605
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:43.360
<v Seth Shostak>your invention's going to be used

1606
01:00:43.360 --> 01:00:44.920
<v Seth Shostak>for in the year 2003?

1607
01:00:45.560 --> 01:00:46.400
<v Seth Shostak>He probably would have had

1608
01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:46.780
<v Seth Shostak>some ideas

1609
01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:47.780
<v Seth Shostak>all of which would have been wrong.

1610
01:00:48.060 --> 01:00:48.420
<v Seth Shostak>So,

1611
01:00:49.720 --> 01:00:51.420
<v Seth Shostak>the bottom line is that

1612
01:00:51.420 --> 01:00:52.700
<v Seth Shostak>radio turns out to be

1613
01:00:52.700 --> 01:00:53.580
<v Seth Shostak>the cheapest way

1614
01:00:53.580 --> 01:00:54.240
<v Seth Shostak>per bit

1615
01:00:54.240 --> 01:00:55.540
<v Seth Shostak>of sending information

1616
01:00:55.540 --> 01:00:56.740
<v Seth Shostak>from star to star

1617
01:00:56.740 --> 01:00:58.000
<v Seth Shostak>in terms of the energy cost.

1618
01:00:58.260 --> 01:00:59.560
<v Seth Shostak>And that will always be true.

1619
01:00:59.620 --> 01:01:00.140
<v Seth Shostak>That's physics.

1620
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:00.480
<v Seth Shostak>So,

1621
01:01:00.500 --> 01:01:01.780
<v Seth Shostak>the rest is technology.

1622
01:01:02.120 --> 01:01:03.020
<v Seth Shostak>Thank you very much.

1623
01:01:03.240 --> 01:01:04.640
<v Derek Abbott>we're going to have to wrap up

1624
01:01:04.640 --> 01:01:05.440
<v Derek Abbott>the questions there

1625
01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:06.740
<v Derek Abbott>but one last question

1626
01:01:06.740 --> 01:01:07.960
<v Derek Abbott>from the Premier

1627
01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:09.160
<v Derek Abbott>of South Australia,

1628
01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:09.820
<v Derek Abbott>Mike Rann.

1629
01:01:12.180 --> 01:01:13.720
<v Derek Abbott>I ought to explain this

1630
01:01:13.720 --> 01:01:14.260
<v Derek Abbott>to the audience.

1631
01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:16.360
<v Derek Abbott>Seth and I were at a function

1632
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:17.420
<v Derek Abbott>a couple of nights ago

1633
01:01:17.420 --> 01:01:18.320
<v Derek Abbott>where Mike Rann

1634
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:18.880
<v Derek Abbott>was present

1635
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:20.100
<v Derek Abbott>and Mike had a question

1636
01:01:20.100 --> 01:01:20.640
<v Derek Abbott>for Seth.

1637
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:22.420
<v Derek Abbott>So, let's hear what

1638
01:01:22.420 --> 01:01:23.780
<v Seth Shostak>your Premier had to say.

1639
01:01:24.080 --> 01:01:25.720
<v Seth Shostak>Could you repeat the question?

1640
01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:26.900
<v Seth Shostak>The question wanted to know

1641
01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:27.720
<v Seth Shostak>why they always came here

1642
01:01:27.720 --> 01:01:28.760
<v Seth Shostak>to do anal probes.

1643
01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:32.680
<v Seth Shostak>He's your Premier.

1644
01:01:39.100 --> 01:01:40.640
<v Seth Shostak>I tried in my answer

1645
01:01:40.640 --> 01:01:41.460
<v Seth Shostak>not to make any butts

1646
01:01:41.460 --> 01:01:42.400
<v Seth Shostak>about my response

1647
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:43.280
<v Seth Shostak>but what I said was

1648
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:45.520
<v Seth Shostak>what did I say?

1649
01:01:45.560 --> 01:01:46.540
<v Seth Shostak>I said,

1650
01:01:46.580 --> 01:01:46.720
<v Seth Shostak>well,

1651
01:01:46.820 --> 01:01:47.640
<v Seth Shostak>if you look at

1652
01:01:47.640 --> 01:01:48.800
<v Seth Shostak>the motives

1653
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:49.700
<v Seth Shostak>that are ascribed

1654
01:01:49.700 --> 01:01:51.260
<v Seth Shostak>to visiting aliens,

1655
01:01:51.460 --> 01:01:52.180
<v Seth Shostak>invading aliens,

1656
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.380
<v Seth Shostak>usually in fiction,

1657
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:54.700
<v Seth Shostak>particularly in the movies

1658
01:01:54.700 --> 01:01:55.120
<v Seth Shostak>and on TV,

1659
01:01:55.200 --> 01:01:56.120
<v Seth Shostak>what did they come to Earth for?

1660
01:01:56.240 --> 01:01:57.020
<v Seth Shostak>There are only a few things.

1661
01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:58.340
<v Seth Shostak>They come here

1662
01:01:58.340 --> 01:01:59.340
<v Seth Shostak>either to trash the planet

1663
01:01:59.340 --> 01:01:59.820
<v Seth Shostak>and take it over.

1664
01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:00.740
<v Seth Shostak>They're here for the real estate

1665
01:02:00.740 --> 01:02:01.760
<v Seth Shostak>or our resources.

1666
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:02.580
<v Seth Shostak>They want the water

1667
01:02:02.580 --> 01:02:03.140
<v Seth Shostak>or something.

1668
01:02:03.520 --> 01:02:04.320
<v Seth Shostak>Or they're here

1669
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:05.400
<v Seth Shostak>to abduct you

1670
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:05.880
<v Seth Shostak>for experiments

1671
01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:06.920
<v Seth Shostak>Mom wouldn't approve of.

1672
01:02:07.600 --> 01:02:09.040
<v Derek Abbott>And that wouldn't work anyhow.

1673
01:02:10.940 --> 01:02:11.700
<v Seth Shostak>I mean,

1674
01:02:11.700 --> 01:02:12.360
<v Seth Shostak>aside from matters

1675
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:13.000
<v Seth Shostak>of consent and fit,

1676
01:02:13.040 --> 01:02:13.560
<v Seth Shostak>they're not going to work.

1677
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:14.140
<v Seth Shostak>But,

1678
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:16.060
<v Seth Shostak>those are exactly

1679
01:02:16.060 --> 01:02:16.740
<v Seth Shostak>the motives

1680
01:02:16.740 --> 01:02:17.280
<v Seth Shostak>that we,

1681
01:02:17.640 --> 01:02:18.880
<v Seth Shostak>we would have ascribed

1682
01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:20.420
<v Seth Shostak>to some tribe

1683
01:02:20.420 --> 01:02:21.200
<v Seth Shostak>on the other side

1684
01:02:21.200 --> 01:02:21.620
<v Seth Shostak>of a hill

1685
01:02:21.620 --> 01:02:22.820
<v Seth Shostak>50,000 years ago.

1686
01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:24.020
<v Seth Shostak>Those are the sorts

1687
01:02:24.020 --> 01:02:25.080
<v Seth Shostak>of motives

1688
01:02:25.080 --> 01:02:25.660
<v Seth Shostak>we ascribe

1689
01:02:25.660 --> 01:02:26.400
<v Seth Shostak>to our competitors.

1690
01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:27.120
<v Seth Shostak>That they will take

1691
01:02:27.120 --> 01:02:27.580
<v Seth Shostak>our resources,

1692
01:02:27.780 --> 01:02:28.440
<v Seth Shostak>take our land,

1693
01:02:28.540 --> 01:02:28.720
<v Seth Shostak>whatever,

1694
01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:29.280
<v Seth Shostak>our crops.

1695
01:02:29.420 --> 01:02:30.500
<v Seth Shostak>Or they'll take our women.

1696
01:02:31.140 --> 01:02:31.600
<v Seth Shostak>Okay.

1697
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:32.280
<v Seth Shostak>And,

1698
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:33.880
<v Seth Shostak>so it doesn't surprise me

1699
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:34.900
<v Seth Shostak>that that's why

1700
01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:35.580
<v Seth Shostak>the premier

1701
01:02:35.580 --> 01:02:36.340
<v Seth Shostak>is worried about

1702
01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:36.880
<v Seth Shostak>anal probe.

1703
01:02:37.680 --> 01:02:38.160
<v Seth Shostak>Thank you.

1704
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.040
<v Derek Abbott>Just before you leave,

1705
01:02:53.100 --> 01:02:54.000
<v Derek Abbott>one quick announcement.

1706
01:02:54.240 --> 01:02:55.740
<v Derek Abbott>Seth is going to be available

1707
01:02:55.740 --> 01:02:57.240
<v Derek Abbott>in the tent just outside

1708
01:02:57.240 --> 01:02:58.060
<v Derek Abbott>to sign books.

1709
01:02:58.180 --> 01:02:58.480
<v Derek Abbott>So,

1710
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.060
<v Derek Abbott>if you'd like to meet him there,

1711
01:03:00.180 --> 01:03:00.860
<v Derek Abbott>he'll be there

1712
01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:01.780
<v Derek Abbott>in about five minutes.

1713
01:03:02.320 --> 01:03:03.180
<v Derek Abbott>Please give him

1714
01:03:03.180 --> 01:03:03.900
<v Derek Abbott>another big hand.

1715
01:03:04.060 --> 01:03:04.560
<v Derek Abbott>Thank you.

