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<v Chair>Welcome to this session of the Festival of Ideas, where Margot Kingston's going to talk.

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<v Chair>My name's Robert Fideon. I teach English at Flinders and am on the Advisory Committee.

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<v Chair>And just very quickly, housekeeping things initially.

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<v Chair>Margot's going to talk at the lectern for about 30 minutes,

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<v Chair>and then we're going to have time for discussion, question and answer for about half an hour.

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<v Chair>We do have to finish on time, so in the likely event that the discussion will really be rolling at one o'clock,

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<v Chair>I'm still going to stop you.

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<v Chair>And when it comes to the discussion, we'll have a microphone, yes, my beautiful assistant,

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<v Chair>that you'll need to speak to so that everybody else can hear.

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<v Chair>It's nearly big enough, this room is nearly small enough to just talk in,

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<v Chair>but it's much better if we use a microphone, and people will have to hand it up to people in their seats.

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<v Chair>So, Margot Kingston.

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<v Chair>I'm quietly confident that she knows...

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<v Chair>She needs no introduction in this audience.

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<v Chair>She's a journalist with the Sydney Morning Herald,

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<v Chair>and particularly runs their web diary,

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<v Chair>is interested in new media and what they can do to multiply voices

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<v Chair>rather than reduce the number of voices.

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<v Chair>Big business seems to treat new media as a way of concentrating our information,

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<v Chair>and Margot is trying desperately and willingly

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<v Chair>to do that.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Chair>And we are now going to spend a little bit of time wondering

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<v Chair>about her response to that response.

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<v Margo Kingston>G'day

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<v Margo Kingston>The title of my talk is Redrawing Maps of Home

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<v Margo Kingston>and that phrase is from a web diarist called Christine Evans

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<v Margo Kingston>who's an Australian living in Canada

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<v Margo Kingston>and she responded to a question I asked on Web Diary

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<v Margo Kingston>after the 2001 election which is

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<v Margo Kingston>What will you do?

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<v Margo Kingston>And she wrote this

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<v Margo Kingston>Edward Bond, a playwright, says that the child maps the world

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<v Margo Kingston>in a process which also creates the child

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<v Margo Kingston>The map and the mapmaker are one

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<v Margo Kingston>He writes, if the map is torn, the mapmaker is torn

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<v Margo Kingston>My map of Australia has just been torn

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<v Margo Kingston>but are long folds that have been worn thin for a long time

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<v Margo Kingston>Since 2001

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<v Margo Kingston>I've been a political writer and journalist for 15 years now

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<v Margo Kingston>and I keep getting shocked at things that are happening

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<v Margo Kingston>And it's been happening for so long that I'm not shocked that I'm shocked anymore

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<v Margo Kingston>Something's happening

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<v Margo Kingston>Something's breaking down from what used to be a consensus

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<v Margo Kingston>In Web Diary

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<v Margo Kingston>Australian's all over the country

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<v Margo Kingston>country, city and country, and Australians abroad, all the continents. We've been sort

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<v Margo Kingston>of talking about it and trying to work out what's happening, why our society is being

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<v Margo Kingston>dismantled and our values are being trashed even when we haven't been asked. And this

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<v Margo Kingston>speech is what I've worked out. And it's in two parts. The first part is the fear and

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<v Margo Kingston>the second part is the hope. Imagine you are John Howard sitting at your political chessboard.

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<v Margo Kingston>Your dominance is almost complete. Your back benches don't speak out on anything anymore.

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<v Margo Kingston>Your popularity and political control is such that dissenters feel they have no control

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<v Margo Kingston>and no choice but to fall in behind you and enjoy the spoils. Your opposition is punch

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<v Margo Kingston>drunk. It is divided over what to do, where to go and how to play to match you. The media

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<v Margo Kingston>is largely compliant. Being so popular and now in your third term, no one is going to

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<v Margo Kingston>take you on or push you to answer questions. You get away with dissembling even lies. Your

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<v Margo Kingston>hand-picked elite has now fully replaced that of the other lot and the losers are dispirited

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<v Margo Kingston>and exhausted from constantly fighting to save some of what they have lost.

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<v Margo Kingston>Most Australians seem to trust that whatever you do it will be okay and they don't need

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<v Margo Kingston>to know much about why. What next? I got an inkling of what might be next in Canberra

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<v Margo Kingston>in the last sitting week before the winter break. Wave after wave of new policy spat

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<v Margo Kingston>forth. Intervention in the Solomons, selling Telstra, getting ASIO through, pushing for

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<v Margo Kingston>cross-media abolition, passing another detention law through the lower house which would keep

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<v Margo Kingston>some people in detention forever. I've been in the same situation for a long time. I've

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<v Margo Kingston>been in the same situation for a long time. I've been in the same situation for a long

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<v Margo Kingston>Labor people tended to get drunk early and party frenetically all night. I even saw tears

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<v Margo Kingston>in the eyes of one of them. They have no time to get their balance, or to regroup,

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<v Margo Kingston>or to plan strategy. John Howard is rolling all over them.

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<v Margo Kingston>When Howard decided to stay on June 3, many people thought he'd missed his Menzies moment,

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<v Margo Kingston>that magic phenomenon of leaving while you're on top, handing your organisation to the next

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<v Margo Kingston>generation in good shape, untouched by leadership. The

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<v Margo Kingston>blood. Peter Costello certainly thought so and told Howard to his face when

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard deigned to kill his hopes the day before the announcement. It can't get

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<v Margo Kingston>better for you than this, Costello told him. You've won the war without a

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<v Margo Kingston>casualty, you're loved by the people, your luck will run out, people will tire of

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<v Margo Kingston>you. Now is the time to hand me the prize. But Howard is no Hawke, the old bloke

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<v Margo Kingston>addicted to the glamour but with nothing much more to contribute. Hawke got to the

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<v Margo Kingston>top the easy way. Howard did it very hard and got very bruised and battered

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<v Margo Kingston>along the way. In a position as good as his he wants more. Howard has a big

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<v Margo Kingston>agenda, a very big one. Howard wants to go out on a high all right but he wants

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<v Margo Kingston>the high to be higher than the one he's already on. He wants to transform

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<v Margo Kingston>Australia so completely that the old Australia can never be revived. His

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<v Margo Kingston>vision is so radical that only a man in complete charge of the political agenda

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<v Margo Kingston>could even dream of it.

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<v Margo Kingston>you

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>And the cross media legislation is central to his plans. Just days after he announced

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<v Margo Kingston>he'd stay leader for as long as the party wanted him, Howard dropped a bombshell. He

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<v Margo Kingston>wanted a referendum to strip the Senate of its power to reject legislation. It had to

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<v Margo Kingston>be a joke, surely. Labor, the party of reform, had always wanted just such a thing. It was

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<v Margo Kingston>conservatives, protectors of the status quo, who wanted the Senate. Now the roles are reversed.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard is the radical.

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<v Margo Kingston>Labor are the conservatives. It is conventional wisdom that such a referendum would never

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<v Margo Kingston>succeed. You only have to look at the nightmare legislation Howard has tried to get through

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<v Margo Kingston>this term, including defining political protests as terrorist acts and imposing a virtual police

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<v Margo Kingston>state with his original ASIO laws to know that the Senate has acted as a bulwark of

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<v Margo Kingston>our human and civil rights. It is a place for genuine debate on the merits and real

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<v Margo Kingston>community input because the government does not have the numbers to force everything through.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard, leading a party traditionally suspicious of Big Brother government has become the

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<v Margo Kingston>champion of it. It is now Labor — not the liberals — who champion privacy laws. It

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<v Margo Kingston>is now Labor — which defends civil rights — since Howard and his

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<v Margo Kingston>followers successfully swept small-l liberalism from the federal party over the last two decades.

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<v Margo Kingston>It's worth noting that the big media has — almost without exception — embraced

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard's idea — arguing that — in a fast-moving world of global economics — a

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<v Margo Kingston>a government must move swiftly.

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<v Margo Kingston>In other words, democracy must be subservient to economic growth

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<v Margo Kingston>and unchecked government power is good for us.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard will decide later whether to put the proposal

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<v Margo Kingston>to a referendum at the next election.

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<v Margo Kingston>It's a card in his hand,

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<v Margo Kingston>one of many he's playing to put almost intolerable pressure

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<v Margo Kingston>on vulnerable senators.

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<v Margo Kingston>The next card is the escalating threat of a double dissolution.

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<v Margo Kingston>In a DD, the Democrats would be all but wiped out.

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<v Margo Kingston>As it is, Andrew Murray, Natasha, Lynette Allison

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<v Margo Kingston>and Andrew Bartlett are in for another five years,

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<v Margo Kingston>while only John Cherry and Aidan Ridgeway would be

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<v Margo Kingston>up for reelection, along with ex-Democrat Meg Lees.

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<v Margo Kingston>So you can see why the party is in crisis and very vulnerable.

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<v Margo Kingston>The Democrats are in a no man's land.

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<v Margo Kingston>At a time when values are imperative, they drift

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<v Margo Kingston>between the Greens on the left and the centrist Labor Party

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<v Margo Kingston>with no articulated difference from either except

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<v Margo Kingston>that they're prepared to do deals sometimes.

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<v Margo Kingston>How can the Democrats hang on?

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<v Margo Kingston>I think Howard means to split them off as soon as possible,

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<v Margo Kingston>setting up a group of three, Lees, Murray and Ridgeway,

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<v Margo Kingston>which will be amenable to deals on his legislative agenda.

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<v Margo Kingston>With them on board, he'd need only one of Shane Murphy,

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<v Margo Kingston>Brian Harradine and Len Harris to win through,

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<v Margo Kingston>and that sounds pretty easy to me.

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<v Margo Kingston>But would he really go to a DD if the Senate stood firm?

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<v Margo Kingston>It doesn't make sense to on the numbers.

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<v Margo Kingston>Politicalical analyst Malcolm McEris wrote recently,

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<v Margo Kingston>in the Financial Review, that the coalition,

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<v Margo Kingston>with a Senate vote of about 42%, would get 33 of the 76 seats in a DD.

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<v Margo Kingston>But it could conceivably win half the seats up for grabs

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<v Margo Kingston>at a normal half-Senate election,

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<v Margo Kingston>which would give the Liberals half of the 76 Senate seats.

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<v Margo Kingston>He'd then need only one Senator to get his agenda through.

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<v Margo Kingston>This is how close we are.

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<v Margo Kingston>And what is his agenda?

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<v Margo Kingston>In my view, he wants to smash the social contract

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<v Margo Kingston>in Australia.

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<v Margo Kingston>He wants to establish Australia as a US-style democracy

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<v Margo Kingston>where people fend for themselves and save for their needs,

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<v Margo Kingston>including health and education.

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<v Margo Kingston>He also wants the US model of a corporate estate run

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<v Margo Kingston>by government in partnership with big business,

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<v Margo Kingston>where politicians and business people swap roles routinely

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<v Margo Kingston>and big business finances his party.

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<v Margo Kingston>And he wants Australia to divorce itself

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<v Margo Kingston>from the multilateral system of international relations

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<v Margo Kingston>and become part of the American world.

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<v Margo Kingston>But Australia would be a different place

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<v Margo Kingston>from America.

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<v Margo Kingston>We do not have a Bill of Rights,

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<v Margo Kingston>which in the United States keeps the government

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<v Margo Kingston>and its powers in check.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard would be much freer than the American president

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<v Margo Kingston>to trample our human and civil rights.

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<v Margo Kingston>He's already walked away from our multilateral human rights obligations

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<v Margo Kingston>and stacked the High Court with judges antagonistic

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<v Margo Kingston>to implying civil rights in our constitution.

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<v Margo Kingston>What he also has that President Bush doesn't

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<v Margo Kingston>is a concentrated media,

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<v Margo Kingston>the most concentrated in the Western world.

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<v Margo Kingston>If he gets his cross-media bill through in three months,

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<v Margo Kingston>as planned, Australia's media will be under the effective control

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<v Margo Kingston>of Rupert Murdoch, who will own most of our newspapers,

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<v Margo Kingston>a TV network, our pay TV network,

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<v Margo Kingston>and in cities where he cannot own both a newspaper

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<v Margo Kingston>and a TV station due to his already great share

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<v Margo Kingston>of the advertising market, the key news talk radio station.

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<v Margo Kingston>Kerry Packer could take Fairfax and keep the Nine network,

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<v Margo Kingston>his stake in Foxtel and his large stable of magazines,

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<v Margo Kingston>and very significantly, the New York Times.

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<v Margo Kingston>He could also take the New York Times,

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<v Margo Kingston>and very significantly, Australia's only business daily,

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<v Margo Kingston>The Financial Review.

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<v Margo Kingston>Just an example of what this means, to your right to know.

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<v Margo Kingston>Both men already effectively controlled three of our major sports,

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<v Margo Kingston>AFL, rugby league, and cricket,

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<v Margo Kingston>and would now control the reporting of those sports,

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<v Margo Kingston>including news coverage only in their commercial interest.

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<v Margo Kingston>No more reporting of Mark Warren, Shane War and bribery.

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<v Margo Kingston>Thus, two immensely wealthy, powerful businessmen

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<v Margo Kingston>would set the news agenda

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<v Margo Kingston>in this country and control much of Australia's mass entertainment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Unlike the United States president,

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<v Margo Kingston>who faces a vast and diverse independent media,

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard could, in large measure,

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<v Margo Kingston>rule effectively free from media scrutiny

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<v Margo Kingston>or dissenting analysis on crucial issues.

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<v Margo Kingston>The big two and Howard want Australia run by big business

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<v Margo Kingston>to compete in a globalised world,

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<v Margo Kingston>with favoured treatment for them, of course,

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<v Margo Kingston>and of course, completely unreported,

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<v Margo Kingston>because they own the media.

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<v Margo Kingston>Murdoch, reaching a position of immense media power,

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<v Margo Kingston>even in the US, wants a free trade agreement with the US

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<v Margo Kingston>to enmesh the two countries militarily and economically.

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<v Margo Kingston>Fairfax, the only remaining sceptical commercial media voice,

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<v Margo Kingston>one without commercial conflicts of interest, would be gone.

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<v Margo Kingston>The ABC, bruised and battered by concerted government attack,

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<v Margo Kingston>enthusiastically backed by the Murdoch press,

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<v Margo Kingston>would be cowed into acquiescence.

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<v Margo Kingston>It is no accident that the Australian recently called

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<v Margo Kingston>for the abolition of Radio National,

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<v Margo Kingston>the only mainstream avenue for big ideas and intelligent dissent in Australia.

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<v Margo Kingston>These ambitions would be controversial,

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<v Margo Kingston>perhaps too controversial,

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<v Margo Kingston>if we had a free independent media

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<v Margo Kingston>and if voices of dissent could be heard.

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<v Margo Kingston>In Howard's ideal world, they would be heard hardly at all.

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<v Margo Kingston>It would be government by big business for big business,

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<v Margo Kingston>with a powerful state apparatus to watch the public

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<v Margo Kingston>and crush radical dissent.

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<v Margo Kingston>I wouldn't put it past Howard to achieve these goals.

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<v Margo Kingston>When Labor reigned supreme after many years of power,

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<v Margo Kingston>with its elites firmly in place,

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<v Margo Kingston>it ran out of puff.

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<v Margo Kingston>Why?

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<v Margo Kingston>Because it disconnected from the needs and aspirations of the Australian people

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<v Margo Kingston>and became arrogant and complacent.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard will not make the same mistake.

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<v Margo Kingston>As he screws the battlers economically,

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<v Margo Kingston>he caters to their nationalistic desires for an Australia safe from boat people

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<v Margo Kingston>and other undesirable immigrants.

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<v Margo Kingston>He gets them on stride at nationalism in this way,

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<v Margo Kingston>while making us a client state to the US in other, much more important ways.

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<v Margo Kingston>He runs a strong anti-drugs line and socially conservative,

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<v Margo Kingston>and he's a leader in the conservative social policy

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<v Margo Kingston>to ease people's fears of a society too complex to comprehend.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard's new media elite is also different from Keating's.

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<v Margo Kingston>For all its faults, the Keating media elite remain critical of Labor,

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<v Margo Kingston>its double standards and its various betrayals of principle.

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<v Margo Kingston>It kept Labor accountable.

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<v Margo Kingston>In contrast, most of Howard's most powerful media elite act as unabashed propagandists.

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<v Margo Kingston>So Howard has all the cards.

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<v Margo Kingston>The Democrats are fighting for their survival and Labor is a headless chook.

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<v Margo Kingston>He can now sit back and decide, when the time is right,

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<v Margo Kingston>which of his many roads to Australia's transformation and his absolute power,

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<v Margo Kingston>in partnership with big business, is most likely to succeed.

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<v Margo Kingston>So that's the fear.

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<v Margo Kingston>The Hon.

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<v Margo Kingston>Mr.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>Here's my response to my comment.

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<v Margo Kingston>the public service and much of the mass media, and in suppressing dissent by

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<v Margo Kingston>defunding public interest groups, stifling free speech in universities and

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<v Margo Kingston>terrorising the ABC, makes his neoliberal, neoconservative dream plausible. When I

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<v Margo Kingston>wrote it, put up a variation of this diatribe, I suppose you could call it, on

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<v Margo Kingston>Web Diary, a guy wrote in for the first time, brilliant piece, his name's Charlie

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<v Margo Kingston>Armstrong, and this is how he put it, now that the West's cult of the individual

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<v Margo Kingston>is so entrenched, it's easier to move from capitalism to authoritarianism as

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<v Margo Kingston>there are no idealistic hurdles. I now realise how difficult it is to write

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<v Margo Kingston>about politics without using terms that can sound alarmist and paranoid, but just

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<v Margo Kingston>like justice, there is a soft edge between what is acceptable and what is

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<v Margo Kingston>not. As a result, authoritarianism doesn't necessarily mean baton-wielding brown

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<v Margo Kingston>shirts.

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<v Margo Kingston>It's just a degree of non-representation that is unacceptable in a democracy.

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<v Margo Kingston>Okay, there are several fault lines that I can think of in Howard's Roads to

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<v Margo Kingston>Absolute Power, apart from the unpredictable outcomes in Iraq and the

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<v Margo Kingston>possibility of a world recession. They are a backlash from traditional liberal

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<v Margo Kingston>leaders.

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<v Margo Kingston>Please.

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<v Margo Kingston>The politics of Telstra, the risks of Howard's idea to gut the Senate blowing up in his face,

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<v Margo Kingston>and the chance that non-coalition parties, independents and our public interest groups

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<v Margo Kingston>will band together to defend Australian values and Australian democracy against the

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard onslaught.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard has many things going for him. The world is now so complicated and frightening

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<v Margo Kingston>that many people want to trust Howard as almost a father figure with their fate and get on

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<v Margo Kingston>with their lives to meet the increasing obligations he imposes on them, including funding their

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<v Margo Kingston>basic health care and education for their kids. They're working longer, harder and less

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<v Margo Kingston>securely. Their lives are tightly managed and they want to relax for sport, entertainment

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<v Margo Kingston>and home renovation.

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<v Margo Kingston>Many have been forced to leave the country, but they have not been forced to leave the

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<v Margo Kingston>They have disconnected from their society as communities disintegrate, partly because

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<v Margo Kingston>few have the time to contribute to their local community and build local support systems.

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<v Margo Kingston>Many people, perhaps most, have lost faith in their democratic institutions, the law,

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<v Margo Kingston>media, public service and business. Many sell their alienations and insecurities through

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<v Margo Kingston>downward envy and prejudice, a tendency happily exploited by Howard.

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<v Margo Kingston>Fault Line 1. Will true liberals revolt?

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<v Margo Kingston>.

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<v Margo Kingston>Some of Howard's traditional constituency, particularly small-L liberals, are uncomfortable

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<v Margo Kingston>with Howard's agenda. As natural opponents of big government, they didn't like his

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<v Margo Kingston>grab for state power and control with his original ASIO and anti-terrorism bills.

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<v Margo Kingston>They prefer a more independent foreign policy and they're growing increasingly concerned

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<v Margo Kingston>at the excesses of Howard's refugee policy. They understand that his cross-media proposals

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<v Margo Kingston>threaten our democratic right to know what's going on.

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<v Margo Kingston>Fault Line 2. Will true liberals revolt?

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<v Margo Kingston>.

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<v Margo Kingston>Some of Howard's traditional constituency, particularly small-L liberals, are uncomfortable

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<v Margo Kingston>combination of small government in the economic sphere and extra-large, highly intrusive government

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<v Margo Kingston>in the private and social spheres is untenable. It's also grating because at the international

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<v Margo Kingston>level where big business makes the big money and wheels the real power, Howard is a fan

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<v Margo Kingston>of international agreements to grease big business wheels. Yet on human and civil rights

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<v Margo Kingston>and environmental protection he walks away from our international obligations and slams

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<v Margo Kingston>them as a breach of national sovereignty. In other words, the place of the citizen in

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<v Margo Kingston>the state and the world is downgraded, even ignored, as we are told we exist to serve

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<v Margo Kingston>the economy and Howard busily dismantles our civil society.

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<v Margo Kingston>I believe that some in the business world will also grow increasingly concerned at Howard's

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<v Margo Kingston>agenda. After all, if Packer and Murdoch control the mainstream media, we're talking about

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<v Margo Kingston>an effective duopoly. This means the pair could set advertising rates at high levels,

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<v Margo Kingston>hurting big and small business alike. The pair could also, and already do, veto advertising

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<v Margo Kingston>which is not in their interests. Already in Sydney professionals like lawyers and accountants

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<v Margo Kingston>have to decide whether they're Packer or Murdoch people. An increase in their power compromises

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<v Margo Kingston>citizens further.

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<v Margo Kingston>An interesting piece in The Australian's Media Supplement two weeks ago now revealed that

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<v Margo Kingston>stockbroker Roger Coleman of CZZ Equities had advised independent Senator Shane Murphy

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<v Margo Kingston>and One Nation's Len Harris on Howard's cross-media campaign.

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<v Margo Kingston>I'm quoting.

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<v Margo Kingston>In his role as a broker, Coleman had previously advised financial institutions which media

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<v Margo Kingston>share prices would benefit from media reform.

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<v Margo Kingston>I was arguing against the research I put out and I was arguing in my capacity as a private

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<v Margo Kingston>citizen, he says. I did not want to be swamped by Kerry Packer. Brave man. We've all got

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<v Margo Kingston>to be brave. I'm sorry. I know it's hard. There's now a gaping hole in our political

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<v Margo Kingston>marketplace.

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<v Margo Kingston>Small-L Liberals and middle-class Labor voters with similar values have nowhere to go. Last

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<v Margo Kingston>year the Democrats imploded after Meg Lees and her supporters sought to move the Democrats

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<v Margo Kingston>into the centre with the policy of cooperating with the Coalition agenda in exchange for

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<v Margo Kingston>side deals on things like the environment and the ABC, while standing firm on core Small-L

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<v Margo Kingston>principles of a non-intrusive state and human and civil rights. That cause was lost, but

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<v Margo Kingston>Lees now has a new party, the Australian Progressive Alliance. It's a new party that's been

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<v Margo Kingston>working for a long time. It's a hope-less cause, one would think, without the attraction

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<v Margo Kingston>of a big name to get momentum and perhaps even a few breakaway Liberals from what's

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<v Margo Kingston>left of the moderate strand of the Liberal Party.

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<v Margo Kingston>There was a wild interview recently in the Bulletin with former opposition leader John

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<v Margo Kingston>Hewson in which he strongly criticised John Howard's agenda. Hewson is an economic dry

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<v Margo Kingston>with progressive views on foreign policy, the environment and human rights. He supports

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<v Margo Kingston>us signing the Kyoto Protocol.

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<v Margo Kingston>He opposed us invading Iraq with that UN sanction and is a critic of our refugee policy.

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<v Margo Kingston>Maxine McHugh, after hearing his rave over lunch, wrote,

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<v Margo Kingston>Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Is this the sound of a resurgent political ambition?

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<v Margo Kingston>Is John Hewson making another run? He doesn't back away from the question. I've had dozens

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<v Margo Kingston>of offers to go back, wealthy people offering to fund me, either to go back or set up a

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<v Margo Kingston>new party. Every time there's a pre-selection in Wentworth, Hewson's old Sydney seat, there

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<v Margo Kingston>are people who want to know if I'll run. But my view in life is you never go back,

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<v Margo Kingston>Maxine writes. But to paraphrase what Al Gore's mate Bill Clinton would say, it may depend

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<v Margo Kingston>on what going back means.

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<v Margo Kingston>I've had quite a few conversations with Liberal moderate staffers and polys over the years

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<v Margo Kingston>where the question of a new, true Liberal Party came up. It's probably not possible,

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<v Margo Kingston>for now at least, but Hewson's musings indicate some alternatives.

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<v Margo Kingston>1.

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<v Margo Kingston>Liberal-aligned independence

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<v Margo Kingston>2.

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>!

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<v Margo Kingston>! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

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<v Margo Kingston>publish his discussion paper on dumping the Senate's veto power over the winter break.

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<v Margo Kingston>Howard's ploy is to trap Labor into supporting the idea because he's nicked one of their

410
00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Margo Kingston>traditional cornerstone issues. Labor won't do it, can't do it though, because now Labor is the

411
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.540
<v Margo Kingston>party trying to preserve the status quo and the social contract, while Howard is the radical

412
00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:19.200
<v Margo Kingston>reformer. The concerns of some Liberal voters about Howard's direction could help mobilise

413
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.780
<v Margo Kingston>a centre-right team in Senate races and an unprecedented focus on the Senate campaign

414
00:24:24.780 --> 00:24:31.220
<v Margo Kingston>at the next election on the theme of keeping John Howard accountable. A prominent person to head the

415
00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:38.100
<v Margo Kingston>ticket in each state and a well-funded campaign could spell danger for Howard. Telstra danger.

416
00:24:39.280 --> 00:24:46.820
<v Margo Kingston>Then there's the Nationals. Web diarist Dennis Burrell is sanguine about my doomsday Howard

417
00:24:46.820 --> 00:24:48.640
<v Margo Kingston>scenario. He wrote to me,

418
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.040
<v Margo Kingston>How is John Howard going to manage a majority in the House of Representatives after the National

419
00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:57.280
<v Margo Kingston>Party get wiped out at the next election after supporting the sale of Telstra? He asks.

420
00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:03.640
<v Margo Kingston>Let me tell you, some cynical political observers in Canberra think Howard's Telstra play is actually

421
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:10.820
<v Margo Kingston>designed to destroy the Nationals. More than one too, thus freeing him from the economic and

422
00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:16.300
<v Margo Kingston>cultural constraints they place on his agenda. The Nationals are on our side, believe me.

423
00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:18.260
<v Margo Kingston>Love your Nationals.

424
00:25:22.520 --> 00:25:27.860
<v Margo Kingston>I reckon the Nationals are in appalling trouble over this issue. There are already two country

425
00:25:27.860 --> 00:25:32.140
<v Margo Kingston>independents in the Parliament, Bob Catter in North Queensland and Tony Windsor in country

426
00:25:32.140 --> 00:25:37.400
<v Margo Kingston>New South Wales, both of whom are strong opponents of Howard's cross-media laws and the sale of

427
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:42.220
<v Margo Kingston>Telstra. Both have threatened to start a new country party or country alliance to capitalise

428
00:25:42.220 --> 00:25:47.660
<v Margo Kingston>on the Nationals' trouble. Like the smaller Liberal apprehension, country Australia is very

429
00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:49.180
<v Margo Kingston>suspicious of Howard's big business. I reckon the Nationals are in appalling trouble over this issue.

430
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:49.380
<v Margo Kingston>There are already two people in the Parliament who are very suspicious of Howard's cross-media laws and the

431
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:54.100
<v Margo Kingston>business agenda. There is no guarantee One Nation leaners will stick with him because of his hardline

432
00:25:54.100 --> 00:25:59.780
<v Margo Kingston>refugee policy. A new country party or country alliance would be well placed to tap into

433
00:25:59.780 --> 00:26:04.700
<v Margo Kingston>disaffection. Again, they could promise to back the Coalition on supply but keep them honest

434
00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:11.960
<v Margo Kingston>on other matters. More broadly, the public's attitude to selling Telstra could be a referendum

435
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Margo Kingston>on how it judges the success of privatisations and deregulations so far, particularly in areas where every

436
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:19.180
<v Margo Kingston>Australian has a right to a free trade. I reckon the Nationals are in appalling trouble over this issue.

437
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:23.680
<v Margo Kingston>The Government has been very cautious about the way the Australian believes he or she has a basic right to services, called fairness.

438
00:26:25.020 --> 00:26:34.840
<v Margo Kingston>Tony Windsor's line is potent, that government ownership means our elected representatives are truly accountable for performance, and that once Telstra is off the leash, anything goes.

439
00:26:35.320 --> 00:26:41.240
<v Margo Kingston>Little people, as always, will suffer, as they have post the Commonwealth Bank and electricity privatisations.

440
00:26:41.860 --> 00:26:47.140
<v Margo Kingston>Why has the Bush got a good deal on telecommunications for the past few years? Because the Government wants to sell.

441
00:26:47.340 --> 00:26:49.180
<v Margo Kingston>Why would ordinary citizens vote for the government? Why would ordinary citizens vote for the government?

442
00:26:49.200 --> 00:27:02.400
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

443
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:03.280
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

444
00:27:04.060 --> 00:27:05.160
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

445
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:06.860
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

446
00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:11.920
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

447
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.880
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

448
00:27:15.820 --> 00:27:16.820
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

449
00:27:17.560 --> 00:27:19.040
<v Margo Kingston>What's been my response to that comment?

450
00:27:19.040 --> 00:27:24.580
<v Margo Kingston>Council in northern New South Wales is a classic micro view of the big picture and of the emerging

451
00:27:24.580 --> 00:27:30.260
<v Margo Kingston>formation of unlikely alliances against the new values of money talks and only making money

452
00:27:30.260 --> 00:27:35.740
<v Margo Kingston>for big business matters. Big developers effectively bought the last council election

453
00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:41.400
<v Margo Kingston>and it's been let a rip ever since which with processes subverted transparency in retreat

454
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:46.360
<v Margo Kingston>and a pristine coastline raised to the ground to prepare for million dollar views for the wealthy.

455
00:27:46.360 --> 00:27:56.180
<v Margo Kingston>The opposition comprises Liberal, Green, Labor and National Party councillors. A new newspaper

456
00:27:56.180 --> 00:28:01.080
<v Margo Kingston>detailing the dirty tricks and developer misdeeds has just started in the Tweed and the four

457
00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Margo Kingston>opposition councillors proudly appear in the same full-page advertisement as representatives of the

458
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:12.800
<v Margo Kingston>local community insisting on having a say in determining what happens to their community.

459
00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:16.180
<v Margo Kingston>What

460
00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:16.340
<v Margo Kingston>does the opposition have to say about the development of the new government?

461
00:28:16.340 --> 00:28:23.600
<v Margo Kingston>What do you want to preserve your way of life? Do you have the right to help decide what your children will enjoy or lose the enjoyment of?

462
00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:33.360
<v Margo Kingston>Local unholy alliances are made up of local people normally at loggerheads who realise that only they care about the public interest

463
00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:40.840
<v Margo Kingston>and that the public interest requires them to work together to keep the playing field fair and the community in the game.

464
00:28:41.900 --> 00:28:45.060
<v Margo Kingston>Could this local trend move up to the federal sphere?

465
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:54.660
<v Margo Kingston>Mobilisation of disaffection across the political spectrum would upset Howard's presently unassailable constituency mix.

466
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:03.760
<v Margo Kingston>Medicare, education, Telstra, the Senate and foreign policy all have the potential to splinter the mix by creating unlikely partners in opposition.

467
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:12.540
<v Margo Kingston>Just one example. Who would have thought that small-L Liberal and Labor internationalism could align with one nation nationalism against Howard?

468
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:15.040
<v Margo Kingston>Yet they do when it comes to Howard's political position.

469
00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:20.120
<v Margo Kingston>The US has a plan-free trade agreement with the US and his subservience to US foreign policy demands.

470
00:29:20.780 --> 00:29:27.620
<v Margo Kingston>Neither constituency is at all happy that Howard is happy to see a secretive US military tribunal try David Hicks,

471
00:29:27.820 --> 00:29:35.960
<v Margo Kingston>while US citizens captured in Afghanistan in the same circumstances enjoy the full protection of US law and the Constitutional Bill of Rights.

472
00:29:36.260 --> 00:29:42.820
<v Margo Kingston>This is straight-out double standards, an Australian acquiescence to Australian citizens being second-class world citizens.

473
00:29:44.140 --> 00:29:45.020
<v Margo Kingston>Many Liberals are also concerned that the US will not be able to keep up with the US and the US will not be able to keep up with the US.

474
00:29:52.220 --> 00:30:15.000
<v Margo Kingston>There's been an unfair response from Australian senators to bah

475
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:20.020
<v Margo Kingston>there which threatens to swamp them all and that their only chance to protect their right

476
00:30:20.020 --> 00:30:23.280
<v Margo Kingston>to have a say is to band together against the common enemy.

477
00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:29.280
<v Margo Kingston>For instance, the far right, the left and smaller Liberals were as one on the evils

478
00:30:29.280 --> 00:30:31.300
<v Margo Kingston>of Howard's ASIO and anti-terrorism bills.

479
00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:36.600
<v Margo Kingston>Imagine the power of that coalition if they worked together rather than separately on

480
00:30:36.600 --> 00:30:37.360
<v Margo Kingston>such campaigns.

481
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:43.320
<v Margo Kingston>Similarly, all parties except the coalition opposed Howard's cross-media bill and his

482
00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:46.360
<v Margo Kingston>decision to follow the US into Iraq with that UN sanction.

483
00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:53.460
<v Margo Kingston>These sorts of issue or value specific alliances on particular issues would require a major

484
00:30:53.460 --> 00:31:02.100
<v Margo Kingston>mind shift from the players based on the recognition that fighting amongst each other while a Howard

485
00:31:02.100 --> 00:31:04.600
<v Margo Kingston>machine rolls over all of them is counterproductive.

486
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Margo Kingston>They might even need to agree to disagree on some fundamental issues while agreeing

487
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.300
<v Margo Kingston>that the big political picture required the election of a Labor government.

488
00:31:13.300 --> 00:31:24.620
<v Margo Kingston>This would be provided, of course, that Labor listened and learned, articulated the values

489
00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Margo Kingston>which united opponents of Howard's agenda, guaranteed to raise ethical standards in the

490
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:35.360
<v Margo Kingston>public service, politics and business and to improve the accountability of all three.

491
00:31:36.060 --> 00:31:38.480
<v Margo Kingston>Labor would also have to defend the Senate.

492
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:43.280
<v Margo Kingston>If it did, an anti-Howard coalition might even work together on the issue of the US

493
00:31:43.280 --> 00:31:43.560
<v Margo Kingston>election.

494
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.140
<v Margo Kingston>The US would have to be the first to decide on the election and decide preferences with

495
00:31:47.140 --> 00:31:50.480
<v Margo Kingston>a view to getting anyone but coalition candidates up.

496
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Margo Kingston>A disparate group of political parties and interest groups would need to focus the public's

497
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:05.620
<v Margo Kingston>mind on the dangers of Howard dominance and convince Australians that they need to curb

498
00:32:05.620 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Margo Kingston>Howard's excesses with their Senate vote.

499
00:32:08.100 --> 00:32:12.840
<v Margo Kingston>All this, of course, would require enormous effort and commitment from many Australians

500
00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:17.240
<v Margo Kingston>on the ground who would have to be willing to dedicate some of their precious spare time

501
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.200
<v Margo Kingston>to establishing local networks and action groups.

502
00:32:20.660 --> 00:32:25.120
<v Margo Kingston>All the non-coalition parties and movements would need to bulk up their grassroots membership

503
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.520
<v Margo Kingston>and bypass the mainstream media in favour of traditional and direct information and

504
00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:32.140
<v Margo Kingston>grassroots political campaigns.

505
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.720
<v Margo Kingston>The return of the town meeting, perhaps.

506
00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:36.720
<v Margo Kingston>Letterbox drops routinely.

507
00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:38.460
<v Margo Kingston>Local fundraising events.

508
00:32:38.660 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Margo Kingston>Guest speakers.

509
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:40.020
<v Margo Kingston>Social events.

510
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:40.760
<v Margo Kingston>All of it.

511
00:32:41.080 --> 00:32:43.180
<v Margo Kingston>The internet is the building block for such a

512
00:32:43.280 --> 00:32:44.160
<v Margo Kingston>ambitious undertaking.

513
00:32:44.620 --> 00:32:48.660
<v Margo Kingston>Websites would aim to attract activists across Australia who would then do the grassroots

514
00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:49.160
<v Margo Kingston>work.

515
00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:51.720
<v Margo Kingston>These things can work, you know.

516
00:32:52.120 --> 00:32:56.840
<v Margo Kingston>There's a bloke called Howard Dean who is considered a rank outsider in the US Democrats'

517
00:32:57.060 --> 00:32:57.860
<v Margo Kingston>presidential race.

518
00:32:59.280 --> 00:33:03.040
<v Margo Kingston>He's the only leading Democrats contender who's been against the Iraq war from the

519
00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:07.880
<v Margo Kingston>beginning and through the internet he's garnered more money for his campaign than any other

520
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:08.280
<v Margo Kingston>candidate.

521
00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:10.000
<v Margo Kingston>He's now a front runner.

522
00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.260
<v Margo Kingston>During Hanson's 1990s, he was a member of the New York Times.

523
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.260
<v Margo Kingston>He's now a member of World's

524
00:33:43.260 --> 00:33:47.700
<v Margo Kingston>to realise that whatever their differences, they had one thing in common, the determination

525
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Margo Kingston>to save and enhance our democracy against the forces which seek to diminish it and to

526
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:54.280
<v Margo Kingston>disempower the people.

527
00:33:55.340 --> 00:34:00.300
<v Margo Kingston>In the late Labor government years, when the media was at its beck and call and many issues

528
00:34:00.300 --> 00:34:06.700
<v Margo Kingston>affecting ordinary Australians were not discussed or were discussed in dehumanised terms, a

529
00:34:06.700 --> 00:34:11.080
<v Margo Kingston>redhead from Ipswich broke through and a grassroots movement exploded into the public arena.

530
00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:15.700
<v Margo Kingston>Hansonites didn't trust anything they read in the newspapers and began an internet site

531
00:34:15.700 --> 00:34:19.960
<v Margo Kingston>to spread their own form of information and reinforce their own beliefs.

532
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:26.000
<v Margo Kingston>In a strange way, most of us who fear Howard's agenda are now outsiders too.

533
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:32.600
<v Margo Kingston>We fear losing our voice and our say in what our society is to be and what values it is

534
00:34:32.600 --> 00:34:33.180
<v Margo Kingston>to live by.

535
00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:37.880
<v Margo Kingston>Howard's media is even more dominant than were the Keating media elite.

536
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.060
<v Margo Kingston>If the One Nation experience is anything to go by, it is the one that is most important.

537
00:34:41.080 --> 00:35:07.380
<v Margo Kingston>There are now bah

538
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.680
<v Margo Kingston>Politics today is an exercise in feeling the earth move under your feet.

539
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.440
<v Margo Kingston>Go back to the image had at the beginning.

540
00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:21.420
<v Margo Kingston>Imagine the chessboard.

541
00:35:22.700 --> 00:35:25.120
<v Margo Kingston>We're the pawns and we're being knocked over.

542
00:35:26.560 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Margo Kingston>But we are still on the board.

543
00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:34.640
<v Margo Kingston>And under the rules of chess, pawns can take the king and win the game.

544
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.000
<v Margo Kingston>Thank you.

545
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:03.500
<v Margo Kingston>I really need this.

546
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:06.100
<v Margo Kingston>It's a rescue remedy to comfort.

547
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.360
<v Margo Kingston>To comfort.

548
00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:16.860
<v Margo Kingston>couldn't reassure so I'm so nervous. She just goes, oh. Don't swallow the bottle. No. Okay,

549
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:23.260
<v Chair>I apologise for standing up here to field questions. I'd rather sit down there but

550
00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:30.720
<v Chair>we're a mic short so I have to do stuff from here. So do we have, let's just go straight

551
00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:38.480
<v Chair>to questions. There's someone up there? We have to use the microphones to make sure that

552
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.000
<v Chair>this records properly. I mean, I imagine we could actually talk to each other in this

553
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:48.320
<v Chair>room satisfactorily but because we're recording. It doesn't sound to be on to me.

554
00:36:50.680 --> 00:36:58.360
<v Speaker 3>Turn it up. Turn what up? I have to turn it up. How are you?

555
00:37:01.580 --> 00:37:07.360
<v Speaker 4>I have technicians. I've just recently had occasion to work in the far west of New South

556
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:13.320
<v Speaker 4>Wales and I understand what you were saying about the Nationals and I think that you're

557
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:20.540
<v Speaker 4>right about the National Party members, party elected. The members though of the Nationals

558
00:37:20.540 --> 00:37:25.940
<v Speaker 4>have a real problem with their elected members at the moment because these are the people

559
00:37:25.940 --> 00:37:30.700
<v Speaker 4>who, and I had reason to do a big ring around and talk to people about the Nationals. I

560
00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:34.480
<v Speaker 4>had a conversation with a guy about have your services improved? Have your telecommunication

561
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:39.800
<v Speaker 4>services improved? And every single one of them said, gee, if you'd run me six weeks

562
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:45.860
<v Speaker 4>ago I would have had something to say. But seeing the CDMAs being rolled out and the

563
00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:51.180
<v Speaker 4>satellites up working now and something else and something else, everything's fine. I even

564
00:37:51.180 --> 00:37:59.800
<v Speaker 4>spoke to a guy who ran a phone in help line who said that he really couldn't talk to me

565
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:00.700
<v Speaker 4>publicly about it.

566
00:38:00.700 --> 00:38:05.260
<v Speaker 4>He said, I can't talk to you about it because Telstra was one of their major sponsors. These

567
00:38:05.260 --> 00:38:09.480
<v Speaker 4>are the same people that are facing drought. They're worried about free trade agreements.

568
00:38:09.720 --> 00:38:14.260
<v Speaker 4>They're worried about single desk barley boards or whatever. They're worried about midwives

569
00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:18.660
<v Speaker 4>going to deliver their babies because people won't come to the doctors. I mean the doctors

570
00:38:18.660 --> 00:38:25.280
<v Speaker 4>won't come. So will the elected members of the National Party, who may be very willing,

571
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:29.300
<v Speaker 4>actually get re-elected by their constituents?

572
00:38:31.040 --> 00:38:37.240
<v Speaker 5>Well, that's what I was suggesting, that I think that there are real opportunities,

573
00:38:39.620 --> 00:38:41.620
<v Speaker 5>real opportunities in the bush.

574
00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:54.520
<v Speaker 5>Take the, I'm just trying to, there is a, I'll just give you an anecdote when I was

575
00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:59.280
<v Speaker 5>following Pauline around. I often say, you know, she's the best. She's the best. She's

576
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:02.360
<v Speaker 5>been my friend for my life. And my response to her response to my response to my response

577
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.780
<v Speaker 5>to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response

578
00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:10.440
<v Speaker 5>to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response

579
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:11.260
<v Speaker 5>to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response

580
00:39:11.260 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 5>to my response to my response to my response to my response to my response

581
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:13.180
<v Speaker 5>to my response to my response to my response to my response

582
00:39:13.180 --> 00:39:13.360
<v Margo Kingston>to my response to my response to my response to my response

583
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.580
<v Margo Kingston>to my response to my response to my response

584
00:39:14.580 --> 00:39:15.220
<v Margo Kingston>to my response to my response

585
00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:16.100
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

586
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:17.860
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

587
00:39:17.860 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

588
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:18.820
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

589
00:39:18.820 --> 00:39:19.260
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

590
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:19.520
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

591
00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:20.820
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

592
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:21.060
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

593
00:39:21.060 --> 00:39:23.720
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

594
00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:26.960
<v Margo Kingston>to my response

595
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:32.480
<v Margo Kingston>and the Greens candidate got up and talked about, you know,

596
00:39:32.500 --> 00:39:35.200
<v Margo Kingston>the evils of globalisation and this and that

597
00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:37.680
<v Margo Kingston>and there's a guy sitting next to me turned to his wife and said,

598
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.600
<v Speaker 5>God, you know, she sounds like One Nation.

599
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:47.200
<v Speaker 5>And there's this amazing, amazing potential alliances

600
00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:49.420
<v Speaker 5>between Greens and Nats in the bush.

601
00:39:49.540 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 5>It's just extraordinary.

602
00:39:51.180 --> 00:39:54.400
<v Speaker 5>The biggest example I've seen so far is on GM food

603
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:58.460
<v Speaker 5>where you've got the farmers in the bush that they're saying,

604
00:39:58.520 --> 00:40:04.360
<v Speaker 5>hang on, market forces, we're not GM, there's a huge market for non-GM,

605
00:40:05.120 --> 00:40:07.380
<v Speaker 5>we want to go this way and the Greens are of course going,

606
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:09.320
<v Speaker 5>oh really, we're quite interested in that agenda.

607
00:40:12.120 --> 00:40:18.300
<v Speaker 5>And even things like the Country Women's Association radicalising

608
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:23.820
<v Speaker 5>and wanting, realising that they've always had enormous energy, those women.

609
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.620
<v Speaker 5>Kept the community together, that they're dying off and no one's coming in

610
00:40:27.620 --> 00:40:32.180
<v Speaker 5>and they're actually starting to say to young Green women,

611
00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:35.300
<v Speaker 5>would you like, I know you're a Green, but would you like to join?

612
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:40.460
<v Speaker 5>Because you live in the country too, you care about our issues.

613
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.420
<v Speaker 5>These things have enormous potential.

614
00:40:44.660 --> 00:40:46.860
<v Speaker 5>Now of course, then you get to your bottom line

615
00:40:47.860 --> 00:40:50.280
<v Margo Kingston>and the bottom line at the moment is refugees.

616
00:40:51.980 --> 00:40:54.380
<v Margo Kingston>It's why people like me, deserted labourers,

617
00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:56.180
<v Margo Kingston>and went to the Greens at the last election

618
00:40:56.180 --> 00:40:59.420
<v Margo Kingston>and you have your National Party people,

619
00:41:01.060 --> 00:41:03.100
<v Margo Kingston>well, it's an homogenous society out there

620
00:41:03.100 --> 00:41:05.840
<v Margo Kingston>and they do all the fear and loathing stuff, they always have.

621
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:07.940
<v Margo Kingston>And the Greens, and you say,

622
00:41:08.020 --> 00:41:10.680
<v Margo Kingston>well, this is the really radical part of my proposal,

623
00:41:10.700 --> 00:41:11.360
<v Margo Kingston>which I didn't complete.

624
00:41:13.100 --> 00:41:17.160
<v Margo Kingston>Can you two support each other and agree to disagree on refugees

625
00:41:17.160 --> 00:41:21.160
<v Margo Kingston>and maybe set up a discussion group and da-da-da.

626
00:41:21.220 --> 00:41:23.920
<v Margo Kingston>Now this is where it gets super hard.

627
00:41:24.600 --> 00:41:25.520
<v Speaker 5>Super hard.

628
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.820
<v Speaker 5>And these are the decisions we've all got to start to make

629
00:41:30.580 --> 00:41:35.480
<v Speaker 5>if we believe that it is absolutely essential to the Australia

630
00:41:36.100 --> 00:41:40.520
<v Speaker 5>that we believe in that Howard not get a fourth term.

631
00:41:42.060 --> 00:41:46.000
<v Speaker 5>Because what I'm concerned about now is irreparable damage.

632
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:50.140
<v Speaker 5>That it'll be, you know how people never know what they've lost till it's gone?

633
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:53.320
<v Speaker 5>That we're going to wake up and go,

634
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:54.380
<v Speaker 5>it's gone.

635
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:58.300
<v Speaker 5>And we didn't realise what we lost and we can't get it back.

636
00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:07.640
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, there's so many interesting, what would you call it, trends.

637
00:42:08.120 --> 00:42:13.440
<v Speaker 5>I read this thing on the back of a friend's loo door.

638
00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.520
<v Speaker 5>She's got this lunar cycle for planting.

639
00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:20.820
<v Speaker 5>L-O-O-O-I-T.

640
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.860
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, lunar cycle for planting.

641
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:25.260
<v Margo Kingston>You know, there's all the plants.

642
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:28.160
<v Margo Kingston>And this guy's done a rave and he said that, you know,

643
00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:34.160
<v Speaker 5>we're living in a world where all the old certainties have fallen away

644
00:42:34.160 --> 00:42:36.900
<v Speaker 5>and we just don't know what it's about anymore.

645
00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:40.560
<v Speaker 5>And naturally we're having all these ethnic type problems

646
00:42:40.560 --> 00:42:42.140
<v Speaker 5>and nationalistic type problems.

647
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:48.180
<v Speaker 5>And he said, you know, think of it like the old growth forest finally falls over

648
00:42:48.180 --> 00:42:51.700
<v Speaker 5>and you've got, you don't know which seedlings are going to blossom

649
00:42:51.700 --> 00:42:52.880
<v Speaker 5>and come to take over.

650
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:54.140
<v Speaker 5>And there's all sorts of different.

651
00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:58.420
<v Speaker 5>Different ideas around and we don't know which one is going

652
00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:00.800
<v Speaker 5>to form the basis of the new consensus.

653
00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:06.540
<v Speaker 5>And we've got to just relax and understand that there's a lot

654
00:43:06.540 --> 00:43:07.900
<v Speaker 5>of different stuff out there.

655
00:43:08.160 --> 00:43:12.880
<v Speaker 5>Now, don't get upset and implode or, you know, hide under your duna

656
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:19.760
<v Speaker 5>or migrate to New Zealand or just, just relax and let your mind be free

657
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.240
<v Speaker 5>and think creatively and laterally.

658
00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:24.120
<v Speaker 5>One thing.

659
00:43:24.120 --> 00:43:27.720
<v Speaker 5>We've got all the people in Australia and there are many,

660
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.800
<v Speaker 5>many Liberals who feel this way too.

661
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:33.240
<v Speaker 5>It's not a matter of whether you're Labor or Liberal or whatever

662
00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:38.120
<v Speaker 5>who are deeply uncomfortable about what's happening now.

663
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:43.160
<v Speaker 5>And there are, there are common values that we can all work for.

664
00:43:43.580 --> 00:43:47.880
<v Speaker 5>Open your mind, open your heart, change your language,

665
00:43:48.240 --> 00:43:49.820
<v Speaker 5>genuine efforts to communicate.

666
00:43:51.600 --> 00:43:53.740
<v Speaker 5>One of the things I think I said yesterday,

667
00:43:54.640 --> 00:44:00.100
<v Speaker 5>one of the great building blocks I think for some

668
00:44:00.100 --> 00:44:03.060
<v Speaker 5>of these unholy alliances is that Save Our Suburbs movement.

669
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:05.620
<v Speaker 5>I don't know if it's big in Adelaide.

670
00:44:05.680 --> 00:44:08.300
<v Speaker 5>It's big in Melbourne and it's just become big in Sydney.

671
00:44:08.560 --> 00:44:11.580
<v Speaker 5>And it's where local communities are saying, well,

672
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.820
<v Speaker 5>actually we don't want that park sold to developers.

673
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.480
<v Speaker 5>That's actually public space.

674
00:44:16.820 --> 00:44:21.320
<v Speaker 5>And the power of those alliances, you know, because they're there.

675
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:22.880
<v Speaker 5>It didn't matter.

676
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:24.100
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't matter what your politics are.

677
00:44:24.100 --> 00:44:27.220
<v Speaker 5>As a community, you want to protect that space.

678
00:44:29.340 --> 00:44:32.100
<v Speaker 5>And tell you what, you get a few rich Liberals on board,

679
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:34.120
<v Speaker 5>they know how the game's played, they've got the money,

680
00:44:34.180 --> 00:44:34.700
<v Speaker 5>they've got the brains.

681
00:44:36.500 --> 00:44:37.260
<v Chair>Thanks, Margot.

682
00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:38.380
<v Speaker 5>They're very useful.

683
00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:44.240
<v Chair>I think there was a question down here and then one up there.

684
00:44:50.600 --> 00:44:52.160
<v Chair>How do we convince them?

685
00:44:54.560 --> 00:45:01.440
<v Speaker 6>How do we convince people at large in the community that somebody who looks

686
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.880
<v Speaker 6>and sounds like John Howard has such imperial ambitions?

687
00:45:06.580 --> 00:45:08.440
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I know we can look at historical comparisons.

688
00:45:08.600 --> 00:45:16.160
<v Speaker 6>I read recently a review of a biography of Louis Napoleon who in 1848 got 74%

689
00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:20.080
<v Speaker 6>of the vote in France and who Alexis de Tocqueville described

690
00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:22.660
<v Speaker 6>as a dwarf riding a gigantic wave.

691
00:45:23.680 --> 00:45:26.720
<v Speaker 6>Isn't there just a possibility that the wave will just crash

692
00:45:26.720 --> 00:45:29.180
<v Speaker 6>and he'll be yet just another pebble on the beach?

693
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:35.900
<v Speaker 6>Or is there really this imperial ambition in the man?

694
00:45:36.120 --> 00:45:43.000
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I saw the Australian story on the Howard family and all I felt after that was

695
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.580
<v Speaker 6>that the whole family may die of a constipation-related disease.

696
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:51.020
<v Chair>Can I just come in?

697
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:51.800
<v Chair>.

698
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:52.600
<v Chair>.

699
00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:52.640
<v Chair>.

700
00:45:52.660 --> 00:45:52.760
<v Chair>.

701
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:58.020
<v Chair>What interested me about that is the question of whether in fact it is a revolution

702
00:45:58.020 --> 00:46:00.940
<v Chair>or whether it will fall away with Howard goes.

703
00:46:01.220 --> 00:46:08.500
<v Chair>I was reading an article by the editor of the Canberra Times, Jack Waterford, recently,

704
00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:15.160
<v Chair>and he was asserting much to my consolation that the moment Howard goes it will all fall away

705
00:46:15.160 --> 00:46:17.160
<v Chair>and he knows it and that's why he's hanging on.

706
00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:20.940
<v Chair>Now, I don't know whether that's true, but I reckon if we say it often enough it might work.

707
00:46:21.100 --> 00:46:21.600
<v Chair>.

708
00:46:22.140 --> 00:46:22.640
<v Chair>.

709
00:46:22.660 --> 00:46:23.600
<v Chair>.

710
00:46:23.600 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Chair>.

711
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:24.240
<v Chair>.

712
00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:24.860
<v Chair>.

713
00:46:24.860 --> 00:46:25.760
<v Speaker 5>.

714
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:26.120
<v Speaker 5>.

715
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:31.520
<v Speaker 5>.

716
00:46:31.520 --> 00:46:32.280
<v Speaker 5>.

717
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:32.340
<v Speaker 5>.

718
00:46:36.060 --> 00:46:36.780
<v Speaker 7>.

719
00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:36.880
<v Speaker 5>.

720
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:36.960
<v Speaker 5>.

721
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:37.120
<v Speaker 5>.

722
00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:37.160
<v Speaker 5>.

723
00:46:37.160 --> 00:46:37.240
<v Speaker 5>.

724
00:46:37.240 --> 00:46:37.280
<v Speaker 5>.

725
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:37.500
<v Speaker 5>.

726
00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:37.520
<v Speaker 5>.

727
00:46:37.520 --> 00:46:37.960
<v Speaker 5>.

728
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:37.980
<v Speaker 5>.

729
00:46:43.720 --> 00:46:44.440
<v Speaker 5>.

730
00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:45.020
<v Speaker 5>.

731
00:46:45.020 --> 00:46:45.460
<v Speaker 5>.

732
00:46:45.460 --> 00:46:47.200
<v Speaker 5>but he's got a little bit of something.

733
00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:49.500
<v Speaker 5>I mean, he does have a Baptist conscience.

734
00:46:52.340 --> 00:46:56.440
<v Speaker 5>And I see Howard staying on

735
00:46:57.680 --> 00:47:01.200
<v Speaker 5>as signifying that Costello will not be the next leader.

736
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:05.980
<v Speaker 5>And Costello knows he's in a lot of trouble

737
00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:09.380
<v Speaker 5>keeping that position as the heir apparent.

738
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:11.540
<v Speaker 5>And I see...

739
00:47:11.540 --> 00:47:14.100
<v Speaker 5>I'm not saying Howard's agenda will come off.

740
00:47:14.100 --> 00:47:15.620
<v Speaker 5>There are many reasons why it won't.

741
00:47:15.660 --> 00:47:16.540
<v Speaker 5>But that's the agenda.

742
00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:20.520
<v Speaker 5>And I think we all need to marshal our defences.

743
00:47:20.780 --> 00:47:24.920
<v Speaker 5>And part of that agenda is to hand over power to Tony Abbott.

744
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:27.480
<v Speaker 5>That's the real...

745
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:29.760
<v Speaker 5>You know, we're talking long-term here.

746
00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:34.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean, he wants his vision to last longer than Menzies.

747
00:47:34.820 --> 00:47:36.080
<v Speaker 5>If he can't do it himself,

748
00:47:36.220 --> 00:47:43.800
<v Speaker 5>he wants his long-term fellow traveller to do it with him.

749
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:44.000
<v Speaker 5>And...

750
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.460
<v Speaker 5>As our institutions become under more and more pressure,

751
00:47:48.160 --> 00:47:49.880
<v Speaker 5>it becomes easier and easier.

752
00:47:54.100 --> 00:47:57.020
<v Speaker 8>Margot, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to give us some insight

753
00:47:57.020 --> 00:47:58.420
<v Speaker 8>into the psyche of the man.

754
00:47:59.460 --> 00:47:59.980
<v Speaker 5>Oh.

755
00:48:02.540 --> 00:48:04.040
<v Chair>That's a very cruel question.

756
00:48:07.540 --> 00:48:08.620
<v Speaker 8>Just a hint.

757
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:11.700
<v Speaker 5>Well, you know,

758
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:13.980
<v Speaker 5>Howard and I have never...

759
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:14.900
<v Speaker 5>We never really got along.

760
00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:29.700
<v Speaker 5>The thing about Howard is...

761
00:48:29.700 --> 00:48:31.880
<v Speaker 5>I don't know if you ever saw that BBC documentary.

762
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:32.500
<v Speaker 5>What's it called?

763
00:48:32.580 --> 00:48:33.200
<v Speaker 5>House of Cards?

764
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.640
<v Speaker 5>You know, the husband and wife team?

765
00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:37.200
<v Speaker 5>And he actually...

766
00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:38.940
<v Speaker 5>He killed his opponents, you know?

767
00:48:39.200 --> 00:48:40.080
<v Speaker 5>And what...

768
00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:42.900
<v Speaker 5>I'm certainly not suggesting Howard would do that, you know?

769
00:48:43.180 --> 00:48:43.600
<v Speaker 5>LAUGHTER

770
00:48:43.600 --> 00:48:43.980
<v Speaker 5>LAUGHTER

771
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:44.740
<v Speaker 5>In a direct way.

772
00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:46.380
<v Speaker 5>LAUGHTER

773
00:48:48.820 --> 00:48:52.320
<v Speaker 5>That whole ambience of the two of them,

774
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:53.140
<v Speaker 5>the husband and wife,

775
00:48:54.560 --> 00:48:56.980
<v Speaker 5>completely consumed by politics.

776
00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:58.560
<v Speaker 5>And that's how it is.

777
00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:02.500
<v Speaker 5>His whole life, all his thinking is about politics.

778
00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:05.560
<v Speaker 5>Whether he was in or out of power as the opposition leader.

779
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.420
<v Speaker 5>You know, he sits every weekend,

780
00:49:08.600 --> 00:49:11.100
<v Speaker 5>he sits at his desk and he reads all the papers

781
00:49:11.100 --> 00:49:13.420
<v Speaker 5>and reads all the transcripts and plots and makes calls.

782
00:49:13.980 --> 00:49:15.320
<v Speaker 5>You know, it's a...

783
00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:17.860
<v Speaker 5>And I think we've probably all felt this.

784
00:49:17.900 --> 00:49:18.360
<v Speaker 5>It's...

785
00:49:19.160 --> 00:49:25.500
<v Speaker 5>There's something very limited in his outlook.

786
00:49:25.640 --> 00:49:27.480
<v Speaker 5>And this comes through in his...

787
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.280
<v Speaker 5>The way he deals with his overseas trips.

788
00:49:30.340 --> 00:49:30.960
<v Speaker 5>So many...

789
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.380
<v Speaker 5>I've never travelled with him overseas,

790
00:49:32.520 --> 00:49:34.280
<v Speaker 5>but a number of my colleagues have.

791
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:36.660
<v Speaker 5>Particularly Asia and the Pacific.

792
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:40.860
<v Speaker 5>Profoundly uncomfortable about putting on those Laurel shirts.

793
00:49:41.860 --> 00:49:42.420
<v Speaker 5>LAUGHTER

794
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:43.900
<v Speaker 5>And things like that.

795
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:44.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, he's not interested.

796
00:49:45.020 --> 00:49:45.900
<v Speaker 5>That's blocked.

797
00:49:46.100 --> 00:49:48.420
<v Speaker 5>And you'll find at receptions,

798
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:50.780
<v Speaker 5>where here he's got these leaders and staffers

799
00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:51.780
<v Speaker 5>from all these different countries,

800
00:49:51.980 --> 00:49:54.280
<v Speaker 5>he'll be in the corner talking to the Australian journos.

801
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:59.260
<v Speaker 5>I think Robert Mann made a point last night at a session...

802
00:49:59.260 --> 00:50:02.020
<v Speaker 5>Yesterday, at a session,

803
00:50:02.100 --> 00:50:04.160
<v Speaker 5>that when he travels in Europe and America,

804
00:50:04.340 --> 00:50:06.720
<v Speaker 5>he never goes to an art gallery, a museum,

805
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:09.540
<v Speaker 5>a site of historic interest.

806
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:12.760
<v Speaker 5>The one exception to that has been his obsession

807
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:17.400
<v Speaker 5>with tracking where his father fought in World War I,

808
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:20.400
<v Speaker 5>and his grandfather and his father fought in World War II.

809
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.580
<v Speaker 5>That sort of thing.

810
00:50:24.520 --> 00:50:28.400
<v Speaker 5>So he's proudly anti-intellectual.

811
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:31.400
<v Speaker 5>Proudly anti-intellectual.

812
00:50:32.600 --> 00:50:34.640
<v Speaker 5>And the other part of his psyche,

813
00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:37.760
<v Speaker 5>which I think is crucial to understand,

814
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:40.120
<v Speaker 5>is I don't know if you heard,

815
00:50:40.160 --> 00:50:42.480
<v Speaker 5>someone got a hold of this...

816
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.660
<v Speaker 5>when he was doing some radio show when he was 16 or 17.

817
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:48.960
<v Speaker 5>And the guy's such a dag.

818
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.840
<v Speaker 5>And if you have a look,

819
00:50:51.860 --> 00:50:53.660
<v Speaker 5>I'm not trying to be rude or cruel here.

820
00:50:54.100 --> 00:50:58.800
<v Speaker 5>Just hear him and then look at his wedding photo.

821
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:01.040
<v Speaker 5>I mean, his wife is, you know,

822
00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:03.940
<v Speaker 5>your beautiful standard North Shore, you know, beautiful.

823
00:51:04.620 --> 00:51:07.340
<v Speaker 5>And he is, like, he's still...

824
00:51:07.340 --> 00:51:09.280
<v Speaker 5>He was losing his hair back then.

825
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:12.640
<v Speaker 5>He's got these huge black glasses and split teeth and bushy.

826
00:51:12.640 --> 00:51:12.920
<v Speaker 5>He's got these bushy eyebrows.

827
00:51:13.180 --> 00:51:15.560
<v Speaker 5>I mean, he lived with his mother till he was 34.

828
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.560
<v Speaker 5>I mean, now, I'm not trying to make cheap tricks here.

829
00:51:19.640 --> 00:51:23.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm talking about a man who has felt deeply to be an outsider

830
00:51:23.680 --> 00:51:28.520
<v Speaker 5>and not in the in-club for a very long time, his entire life.

831
00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:33.720
<v Speaker 5>Now, to me, psychologically, he's finally got it.

832
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:35.800
<v Speaker 5>And boy, oh, boy, has he been stabbed in the back

833
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:37.400
<v Speaker 5>and done some stabbing in the front himself.

834
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.760
<v Speaker 5>That his sense of destiny,

835
00:51:42.640 --> 00:51:47.800
<v Speaker 5>combined with his sense of paying back

836
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:49.780
<v Speaker 5>those who've made him feel bad

837
00:51:49.780 --> 00:51:51.380
<v Speaker 5>and have said he was yesterday's man,

838
00:51:51.620 --> 00:51:57.200
<v Speaker 5>of the triumphal nature of his transforming

839
00:51:57.200 --> 00:51:59.700
<v Speaker 5>of our cultural norms, et cetera.

840
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:05.700
<v Speaker 5>These are profoundly important things to him.

841
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.720
<v Speaker 5>I mean, this is a very strong man, a very committed man,

842
00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:12.260
<v Speaker 5>a very obsessed man, as all...

843
00:52:12.640 --> 00:52:14.920
<v Speaker 5>people who get to be prime minister are.

844
00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:19.660
<v Speaker 5>But he has too many chips on his shoulder,

845
00:52:19.740 --> 00:52:23.000
<v Speaker 5>and that is hurting this country very, very badly.

846
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:32.780
<v Speaker 5>I can sort of relate to the outsider chip on shoulder thing.

847
00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:36.340
<v Speaker 5>Because I'm a Queenslander.

848
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:39.920
<v Speaker 6>No, that's a banana.

849
00:52:41.660 --> 00:52:42.180
<v Chair>Okay.

850
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:42.620
<v Chair>I'm sorry.

851
00:52:42.640 --> 00:52:44.120
<v Chair>We've got about ten minutes,

852
00:52:44.220 --> 00:52:45.800
<v Chair>and we have, I think, three questions.

853
00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:48.480
<v Chair>One, two, you were still there,

854
00:52:48.560 --> 00:52:51.360
<v Chair>and three, and just four if we get there, I'm afraid.

855
00:52:53.160 --> 00:52:56.540
<v Chair>So the first one's here, please.

856
00:52:58.100 --> 00:53:00.380
<v Chair>And that will, I'm afraid, have...

857
00:53:00.940 --> 00:53:02.360
<v Chair>Well, that will certainly have to be here.

858
00:53:02.420 --> 00:53:04.280
<v Chair>We'll run out of time doing that much, I'm sure.

859
00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:12.240
<v Speaker 7>Thank you.

860
00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:15.360
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

861
00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:17.100
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

862
00:53:17.640 --> 00:53:18.180
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

863
00:53:18.180 --> 00:53:18.640
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

864
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:26.040
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

865
00:53:26.740 --> 00:53:27.380
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

866
00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:28.900
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

867
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:30.600
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

868
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:31.360
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

869
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:31.700
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

870
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:31.820
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

871
00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:32.100
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

872
00:53:32.100 --> 00:53:32.280
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

873
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:32.680
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

874
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:33.020
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

875
00:53:33.040 --> 00:53:33.280
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

876
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:33.620
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

877
00:53:33.620 --> 00:53:33.720
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

878
00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:34.540
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

879
00:53:34.780 --> 00:53:36.320
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

880
00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:36.440
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

881
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:37.040
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

882
00:53:37.140 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

883
00:53:38.040 --> 00:53:39.540
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

884
00:53:39.660 --> 00:53:41.200
<v Speaker 9>Thank you.

885
00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:43.360
<v Speaker 9>over many years as to why he behaves the way he behaves.

886
00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:46.260
<v Speaker 9>And one can forgive a bit, maybe.

887
00:53:46.600 --> 00:53:48.660
<v Speaker 9>But I wanted to talk about fearlessness

888
00:53:48.660 --> 00:53:51.520
<v Speaker 9>because, Margot, you said we have to be brave.

889
00:53:52.040 --> 00:53:54.440
<v Speaker 9>And we do. We actually have to be fearless.

890
00:53:54.520 --> 00:53:56.340
<v Speaker 9>And all of us have been here this weekend.

891
00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:59.580
<v Speaker 9>It's been some pretty useful themes, hope and fear.

892
00:54:00.220 --> 00:54:02.340
<v Speaker 9>Well, I want to concentrate on the hope,

893
00:54:02.380 --> 00:54:04.280
<v Speaker 9>and you're helping to give us that hope.

894
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:08.200
<v Speaker 9>I think there's enormous opportunities that you've suggested to us.

895
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:10.940
<v Speaker 9>And like other people are saying, how do we do this?

896
00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:13.220
<v Speaker 9>You've given us some suggestions how to do this.

897
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:17.280
<v Speaker 9>During the night, I worked out that even if I could offer 25 cents a week,

898
00:54:17.420 --> 00:54:23.340
<v Speaker 9>that's $13 a year, that'll buy 27 stamps for 27 envelopes,

899
00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:26.320
<v Speaker 9>or maybe a ream of ronio paper,

900
00:54:26.680 --> 00:54:28.340
<v Speaker 9>or, you know, sorry, you know, photocopy or whatever,

901
00:54:28.820 --> 00:54:30.080
<v Speaker 9>of circulars and so on.

902
00:54:30.120 --> 00:54:32.220
<v Speaker 9>So we can all... We can actually all do something.

903
00:54:33.040 --> 00:54:35.460
<v Speaker 9>And we've also all been listening to,

904
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:37.860
<v Speaker 9>don't let gender get in the way, OK?

905
00:54:38.240 --> 00:54:40.620
<v Speaker 9>Let's not just be termed those silly women

906
00:54:40.620 --> 00:54:41.060
<v Speaker 9>or those...

907
00:54:41.060 --> 00:54:44.620
<v Speaker 9>That woman or, you know, that lunatic fringe

908
00:54:44.620 --> 00:54:45.740
<v Speaker 9>or whatever the hell it is.

909
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:48.560
<v Speaker 9>We can all gather 10 people around us

910
00:54:49.060 --> 00:54:52.400
<v Speaker 9>from every different and diverse walk of wherever,

911
00:54:52.900 --> 00:54:55.660
<v Speaker 9>and we can help you, and we can be helping each other.

912
00:54:55.740 --> 00:54:58.780
<v Speaker 9>So, Margot, I'm hoping at the end of this weekend

913
00:54:58.780 --> 00:55:00.380
<v Speaker 9>that we will take things forward.

914
00:55:00.940 --> 00:55:03.460
<v Speaker 9>I know Greg Mackie would be keen to help us.

915
00:55:03.500 --> 00:55:05.440
<v Speaker 9>You said town meetings and things like that.

916
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:09.600
<v Speaker 9>Let's not leave the weekend without doing something like that.

917
00:55:09.860 --> 00:55:10.860
<v Speaker 9>I'm standing up.

918
00:55:11.060 --> 00:55:11.880
<v Speaker 9>I'm saying I will be fearless.

919
00:55:12.520 --> 00:55:14.840
<v Speaker 9>I'm hoping a lot of other people will feel this as well.

920
00:55:15.020 --> 00:55:15.340
<v Speaker 9>Thanks.

921
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:16.140
<v Speaker 5>Well, um...

922
00:55:16.900 --> 00:55:17.380
<v Speaker 5>APPLAUSE

923
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.780
<v Speaker 5>Just one of the things I said,

924
00:55:25.380 --> 00:55:28.500
<v Speaker 5>one of yesterday's sessions,

925
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:31.500
<v Speaker 5>this power of the vote business,

926
00:55:32.080 --> 00:55:35.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, particularly if you're in a safe seat.

927
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:39.380
<v Speaker 5>You know, I guess we're focusing on the Liberals now,

928
00:55:39.460 --> 00:55:40.380
<v Speaker 5>but, um...

929
00:55:41.060 --> 00:55:42.820
<v Speaker 5>Part of, you know, what I'm looking for

930
00:55:42.820 --> 00:55:44.780
<v Speaker 5>in this grassroots people's movement

931
00:55:44.780 --> 00:55:47.340
<v Speaker 5>is to put some spine in the old Labor Party as well.

932
00:55:48.080 --> 00:55:51.580
<v Speaker 5>So just say you're in a safe Liberal seat

933
00:55:51.580 --> 00:55:53.820
<v Speaker 5>or a safe Labor seat.

934
00:55:55.240 --> 00:55:57.380
<v Speaker 5>One possibility might be...

935
00:55:57.380 --> 00:55:59.240
<v Speaker 5>You know, part of this is re-empowering community.

936
00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:01.100
<v Speaker 5>Like, you look around your community and you say,

937
00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:03.660
<v Speaker 5>you know, have a chat at the supermarket or whatever.

938
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:05.220
<v Speaker 5>Now, are you interested in this or whatever?

939
00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:08.100
<v Speaker 5>Would you like to get a little group about, you know,

940
00:56:09.020 --> 00:56:10.500
<v Speaker 5>accountability to our community?

941
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:14.600
<v Speaker 5>And look around and you might find someone

942
00:56:15.660 --> 00:56:16.100
<v Speaker 5>who...

943
00:56:19.100 --> 00:56:20.540
<v Speaker 5>..across the political spectrum,

944
00:56:20.680 --> 00:56:23.200
<v Speaker 5>you think they've got the interests of the community at heart,

945
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:24.420
<v Speaker 5>you think they've got a strong conscience,

946
00:56:24.620 --> 00:56:26.240
<v Speaker 5>you think they're trustworthy, strong,

947
00:56:27.660 --> 00:56:28.980
<v Speaker 5>and approach them and say,

948
00:56:29.560 --> 00:56:33.200
<v Speaker 5>would you like to stand as community independent?

949
00:56:35.100 --> 00:56:37.320
<v Speaker 5>And they'll say, no, you've got to be joking.

950
00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:39.900
<v Speaker 5>And you'd say, well,

951
00:56:41.060 --> 00:56:43.420
<v Speaker 5>you wouldn't be on your own, you'd have a support group around you.

952
00:56:44.040 --> 00:56:46.100
<v Speaker 5>Now, if there could be enough momentum in that

953
00:56:46.100 --> 00:56:51.000
<v Speaker 5>to get even 4%, 5% of the vote,

954
00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:54.460
<v Speaker 5>that deals you in on preference negotiations.

955
00:56:56.540 --> 00:56:58.340
<v Speaker 5>So you're sort of looking for...

956
00:56:58.340 --> 00:57:00.420
<v Speaker 5>You've got to always remember the One Nation precedent.

957
00:57:00.740 --> 00:57:05.260
<v Speaker 5>What One Nation did is made it very clear to Australians

958
00:57:05.260 --> 00:57:07.800
<v Speaker 5>that when you've got no power left,

959
00:57:08.420 --> 00:57:10.520
<v Speaker 5>you slap your vote on the table.

960
00:57:11.220 --> 00:57:12.240
<v Speaker 5>And you get power.

961
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:17.940
<v Speaker 5>And there have been so much service delivery to the bush

962
00:57:17.940 --> 00:57:20.600
<v Margo Kingston>since the 1998 election, it's frightening.

963
00:57:22.600 --> 00:57:25.100
<v Margo Kingston>And the Nats voted to sell Telstra years ago.

964
00:57:25.820 --> 00:57:27.920
<v Margo Kingston>Now they've got more and more money piled up,

965
00:57:27.940 --> 00:57:30.240
<v Speaker 5>and now they want the proceeds to go up and, you know...

966
00:57:30.940 --> 00:57:35.020
<v Speaker 5>There is power in that vote if the people get together on it.

967
00:57:36.460 --> 00:57:38.140
<v Margo Kingston>The other thing I'd like to say is...

968
00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:39.560
<v Margo Kingston>..is...

969
00:57:39.560 --> 00:57:40.540
<v Margo Kingston>..I was...

970
00:57:41.060 --> 00:57:42.720
<v Margo Kingston>..out of this during the Hanson phenomenon myself,

971
00:57:42.860 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Margo Kingston>and I do have regrets about it.

972
00:57:45.060 --> 00:57:45.860
<v Margo Kingston>I think in retrospect,

973
00:57:46.660 --> 00:57:48.760
<v Margo Kingston>if the left and the centre-left had have said,

974
00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:50.260
<v Margo Kingston>oh, well, that's a particular view,

975
00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:52.380
<v Margo Kingston>let it have its one or two representations

976
00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:54.580
<v Margo Kingston>rather than search and destroy,

977
00:57:55.220 --> 00:57:57.320
<v Margo Kingston>you know, we wouldn't be in this position.

978
00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.720
<v Margo Kingston>John Howard has ended up being the big winner out of this.

979
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.400
<v Margo Kingston>He's ended up being the very big winner.

980
00:58:04.700 --> 00:58:09.600
<v Speaker 5>And is the political correctness that's now gone,

981
00:58:10.160 --> 00:58:11.040
<v Speaker 5>we did...

982
00:58:11.060 --> 00:58:14.040
<v Speaker 5>..tend to jump on the language and say,

983
00:58:14.160 --> 00:58:17.060
<v Speaker 5>well, you're racist and you're this and you're that,

984
00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:17.980
<v Speaker 5>rather than saying,

985
00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:19.760
<v Speaker 5>now, this is a person of completely different education

986
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:20.820
<v Speaker 5>and life experience to me.

987
00:58:22.020 --> 00:58:24.320
<v Speaker 5>And they are trying to say something

988
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:25.860
<v Speaker 5>and they are using the wrong formulation.

989
00:58:27.540 --> 00:58:29.520
<v Speaker 5>And so what...

990
00:58:30.220 --> 00:58:33.000
<v Speaker 5>And there are all sorts of different people in life

991
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.940
<v Speaker 5>and in politics in Australia,

992
00:58:35.140 --> 00:58:36.700
<v Speaker 5>some of whom drive you mad,

993
00:58:36.780 --> 00:58:38.980
<v Speaker 5>like they're fanatics on this or fanatics on that,

994
00:58:39.040 --> 00:58:40.720
<v Speaker 5>some of whom you don't like how they look.

995
00:58:41.060 --> 00:58:41.980
<v Speaker 5>Some of them, they don't...

996
00:58:42.560 --> 00:58:43.960
<v Speaker 5>They swear and use the wrong...

997
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:44.980
<v Speaker 5>Unfashionable swear words.

998
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:51.280
<v Margo Kingston>But it really is a process of...

999
00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:53.660
<v Margo Kingston>I don't know if I'm very hippie here,

1000
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:56.860
<v Margo Kingston>but, you know, joining hands metaphorically

1001
00:58:56.860 --> 00:59:01.260
<v Margo Kingston>and opening yourself to see what there might be in common

1002
00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:03.880
<v Speaker 5>and to see the different talents.

1003
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:05.920
<v Speaker 5>To have a successful political movement,

1004
00:59:06.060 --> 00:59:09.680
<v Speaker 5>you've got to harness an enormous number of different talents.

1005
00:59:11.060 --> 00:59:13.500
<v Speaker 5>A public movement is always bound to fail

1006
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:15.340
<v Speaker 5>because there'll be petty jealousies and da-da-da

1007
00:59:15.340 --> 00:59:16.720
<v Speaker 5>and that's where you need your leader.

1008
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:20.940
<v Speaker 5>And the great leader is the leader that facilitates

1009
00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:24.020
<v Speaker 5>the community to do the work and to lead itself.

1010
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:25.280
<v Speaker 5>There aren't many around.

1011
00:59:25.680 --> 00:59:26.740
<v Margo Kingston>There are a few.

1012
00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:28.380
<v Margo Kingston>And those who have that capacity

1013
00:59:28.380 --> 00:59:30.680
<v Margo Kingston>would do anything not to be put in that role.

1014
00:59:32.620 --> 00:59:34.720
<v Speaker 5>Because it is frightening.

1015
00:59:36.240 --> 00:59:40.120
<v Speaker 5>And that's where the people who find that leader say,

1016
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:40.940
<v Speaker 5>you...

1017
00:59:40.940 --> 00:59:41.040
<v Speaker 5>You...

1018
00:59:41.040 --> 00:59:41.360
<v Speaker 5>!

1019
00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:42.300
<v Speaker 5>You have our support.

1020
00:59:42.500 --> 00:59:44.560
<v Speaker 5>We will make your dinner when you're in crisis.

1021
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:47.660
<v Speaker 5>We will, you know, do your shopping at times.

1022
00:59:47.900 --> 00:59:50.840
<v Speaker 5>You know, we will be there when you need to download and freak out.

1023
00:59:51.580 --> 00:59:56.000
<v Speaker 5>The support is really important too.

1024
00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:58.880
<v Chair>Another question here.

1025
00:59:59.260 --> 01:00:01.740
<v Chair>And while we're going there, just my observation,

1026
01:00:02.020 --> 01:00:04.360
<v Chair>people who care do seem to have a lot more in common

1027
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:05.540
<v Chair>than people who don't.

1028
01:00:05.680 --> 01:00:07.720
<v Chair>I've, just in handing out how to vote cards

1029
01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:08.820
<v Chair>the last couple of elections,

1030
01:00:08.940 --> 01:00:10.880
<v Chair>I've discovered how much I have in common

1031
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:12.280
<v Chair>with the people from the other parties

1032
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:13.680
<v Chair>also handing out how to vote cards.

1033
01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:16.800
<v Chair>More in common with the people who are presumably

1034
01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:19.100
<v Chair>going to pick up a card and work out how to vote

1035
01:00:19.640 --> 01:00:22.700
<v Chair>on the strength of a piece of paper we've just handed them.

1036
01:00:23.260 --> 01:00:23.660
<v Chair>Anyways.

1037
01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:25.760
<v Speaker 10>This one?

1038
01:00:25.900 --> 01:00:26.080
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1039
01:00:26.200 --> 01:00:26.300
<v Speaker 10>Yeah.

1040
01:00:26.560 --> 01:00:26.960
<v Speaker 10>Okay.

1041
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:29.200
<v Speaker 10>This is a naive question, I think.

1042
01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:31.920
<v Speaker 10>But it's a question that comes from my fear.

1043
01:00:32.700 --> 01:00:36.200
<v Speaker 10>And that is, if we bring in Labor at the next election,

1044
01:00:36.940 --> 01:00:40.320
<v Speaker 10>while the image is that they are muddled and disorganized

1045
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:40.860
<v Speaker 10>and blah blah blah.

1046
01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:44.500
<v Speaker 10>blah. My fear is does that not serve to strengthen

1047
01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:48.620
<v Speaker 10>not only the might but the sense of right of the current liberal way

1048
01:00:48.620 --> 01:00:50.280
<v Speaker 10>for the following term?

1049
01:00:51.860 --> 01:00:56.560
<v Speaker 5>Well this, what I actually don't think, this is a naive

1050
01:00:56.560 --> 01:01:00.580
<v Margo Kingston>question. I think this is a very, very good question.

1051
01:01:02.420 --> 01:01:04.640
<v Margo Kingston>And when I've run my ideas

1052
01:01:04.640 --> 01:01:07.120
<v Margo Kingston>about we all should get together to get Labour up, I mean

1053
01:01:07.120 --> 01:01:12.420
<v Margo Kingston>political observers I trust have said you're actually

1054
01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:14.660
<v Speaker 5>giving the game away when you do that.

1055
01:01:15.420 --> 01:01:18.300
<v Speaker 5>And that's why I've got in my speech

1056
01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:22.360
<v Speaker 5>that only if Labour

1057
01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:25.940
<v Speaker 5>listens and learns, only if.

1058
01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:30.520
<v Speaker 5>But these things aren't binary. Labour

1059
01:01:30.520 --> 01:01:34.000
<v Speaker 5>needs energy from us

1060
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:35.400
<v Speaker 5>to do that.

1061
01:01:37.120 --> 01:01:39.240
<v Speaker 5>And if they don't do it, well they don't do it.

1062
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:43.180
<v Speaker 5>And my theory about Labour, you know,

1063
01:01:43.820 --> 01:01:46.060
<v Speaker 5>I'm hopelessly hopeful.

1064
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:51.400
<v Speaker 5>Because as soon as the hope dies you give up and there is no hope.

1065
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:55.020
<v Speaker 5>So the Beazley challenge,

1066
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:59.280
<v Speaker 5>my analysis of that is that when Labour lost

1067
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:03.080
<v Margo Kingston>government, they didn't believe they'd lost government, they believed they were the natural party of government

1068
01:02:03.080 --> 01:02:06.960
<v Margo Kingston>and they sit there and they get straight back in. They never did any soul search,

1069
01:02:07.120 --> 01:02:09.600
<v Margo Kingston>they never looked at what went wrong, they never looked at re-envisaging,

1070
01:02:09.720 --> 01:02:11.660
<v Margo Kingston>they never looked at structural reform of their party.

1071
01:02:12.200 --> 01:02:16.940
<v Speaker 5>And so on the night of November, whatever it was, 2001,

1072
01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:21.140
<v Speaker 5>that's when they realised that they had lost government.

1073
01:02:22.520 --> 01:02:24.180
<v Speaker 5>And that's when they started grieving.

1074
01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:26.200
<v Speaker 5>And that's when they started falling apart.

1075
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:36.840
<v Speaker 5>And to me, the Beazley's fail challenge represents,

1076
01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:37.100
<v Speaker 5>and I think it's a very important thing,

1077
01:02:37.100 --> 01:02:39.040
<v Speaker 5>that they've entered the end of that grieving process.

1078
01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:41.500
<v Speaker 5>That they, naturally when you grieve you go,

1079
01:02:41.580 --> 01:02:47.460
<v Speaker 5>oh please God, bring my mother or my lover back and I'll be nice for them all.

1080
01:02:47.860 --> 01:02:53.120
<v Speaker 5>And so Beazley was like, oh yeah, let's go back to that with the natural party.

1081
01:02:53.260 --> 01:02:55.180
<v Speaker 5>And the party said no.

1082
01:02:55.540 --> 01:02:57.140
<v Speaker 5>And you just think about it.

1083
01:02:57.280 --> 01:02:59.840
<v Speaker 5>The public said do it, the polls said do it.

1084
01:03:00.120 --> 01:03:03.120
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know, how it is like, you know,

1085
01:03:03.700 --> 01:03:04.600
<v Speaker 5>please keep cream.

1086
01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:06.800
<v Speaker 5>And the party said no.

1087
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:07.740
<v Speaker 5>We need to move on.

1088
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:10.080
<v Speaker 5>So the party's now in a very fragile stage.

1089
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:14.500
<v Speaker 5>Management theorist I really like, William Bridges, calls it the neutral zone.

1090
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:18.920
<v Speaker 5>The zone where the grieving is over but the new beginning hasn't begun.

1091
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:22.220
<v Speaker 5>And it's the most frightening phase because it can mean disintegration

1092
01:03:22.220 --> 01:03:23.880
<v Speaker 5>but it can also mean renewal.

1093
01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:26.320
<v Speaker 5>Now is Cream the man to do that?

1094
01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:27.760
<v Margo Kingston>Well, I mean, many of us would say no.

1095
01:03:29.700 --> 01:03:35.400
<v Speaker 5>But I say that he is a consensus man.

1096
01:03:35.660 --> 01:03:36.780
<v Speaker 5>He is not a big eater.

1097
01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:37.240
<v Speaker 5>He is not a big ego man.

1098
01:03:37.560 --> 01:03:40.420
<v Margo Kingston>He is very positive towards female politicians.

1099
01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:43.500
<v Margo Kingston>I think the feminisation thing is potentially a vote winner.

1100
01:03:44.500 --> 01:03:46.180
<v Margo Kingston>You know, the new way.

1101
01:03:48.520 --> 01:03:50.440
<v Speaker 5>He's an honest man.

1102
01:03:52.120 --> 01:03:55.400
<v Speaker 5>I think he could be the person.

1103
01:03:55.540 --> 01:03:58.420
<v Speaker 5>And what convinced me that this could actually be sensational

1104
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:02.140
<v Speaker 5>is putting Mark Latham in that position.

1105
01:04:02.300 --> 01:04:02.760
<v Margo Kingston>I mean, God.

1106
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:05.720
<v Speaker 5>We are desperate, aren't we?

1107
01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:10.140
<v Speaker 5>We've gone for a crash or crash through man.

1108
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:11.880
<v Speaker 5>And we could lose everything.

1109
01:04:13.240 --> 01:04:18.920
<v Speaker 5>But if we lose everything, there will be pieces to pick up.

1110
01:04:19.540 --> 01:04:21.920
<v Margo Kingston>Because Mark is a man of energy and ideas.

1111
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:23.840
<v Margo Kingston>And I disagree with many of his ideas.

1112
01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:26.760
<v Speaker 5>But he is a man who cares about the public interest.

1113
01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:28.080
<v Speaker 5>And he is fearless.

1114
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:35.480
<v Speaker 5>Now, if Labor doesn't come up to the mark, then we've got to...

1115
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:36.640
<v Speaker 5>There's lots of other things.

1116
01:04:36.640 --> 01:04:38.040
<v Speaker 5>There's lots of other things we need to do.

1117
01:04:39.220 --> 01:04:43.960
<v Speaker 5>But we need to help Labor come up to the mark.

1118
01:04:44.020 --> 01:04:46.880
<v Speaker 5>I mean, Labor is the centre party in Australia.

1119
01:04:47.180 --> 01:04:49.140
<v Margo Kingston>If you've moved like I have...

1120
01:04:49.140 --> 01:04:53.800
<v Speaker 5>You know, I've gone from small to liberal to left in eight years.

1121
01:04:54.520 --> 01:04:55.040
<v Speaker 5>Extraordinary.

1122
01:04:55.180 --> 01:04:56.220
<v Speaker 5>And I haven't shifted.

1123
01:04:56.960 --> 01:04:58.240
<v Speaker 5>I've stayed the same.

1124
01:04:59.620 --> 01:05:00.380
<v Speaker 5>They've gone.

1125
01:05:01.040 --> 01:05:02.120
<v Speaker 5>I've watched them go.

1126
01:05:09.020 --> 01:05:12.500
<v Margo Kingston>And, to me, the rise in the power of the Greens,

1127
01:05:13.600 --> 01:05:15.140
<v Margo Kingston>this strange voice that said,

1128
01:05:15.220 --> 01:05:16.260
<v Margo Kingston>well, we're going to do what's right,

1129
01:05:19.680 --> 01:05:21.020
<v Margo Kingston>very strange, the party of the Greens,

1130
01:05:23.440 --> 01:05:26.000
<v Speaker 5>a combination of, you know, they're completely inspirational

1131
01:05:26.640 --> 01:05:27.940
<v Speaker 5>and yet, there you go, oh, God!

1132
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:29.160
<v Speaker 5>LAUGHTER

1133
01:05:32.120 --> 01:05:36.300
<v Speaker 5>That, you know, this, this, this Green thing,

1134
01:05:36.300 --> 01:05:38.060
<v Speaker 5>is about keeping

1135
01:05:38.060 --> 01:05:40.100
<v Speaker 5>Labor. You know, Labor in

1136
01:05:40.100 --> 01:05:42.380
<v Speaker 5>2001 went, oh dear, this is

1137
01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:44.260
<v Speaker 5>how we win our margins. We'll just go way off

1138
01:05:44.260 --> 01:05:45.280
<v Speaker 5>to the right with Howard and

1139
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:48.200
<v Speaker 5>One Nation. And enough

1140
01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:50.280
<v Speaker 5>people, thank God, doubled their vote

1141
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:52.180
<v Speaker 5>to four and that started the momentum. Two

1142
01:05:52.180 --> 01:05:54.260
<v Speaker 5>to four. Two important things about

1143
01:05:54.260 --> 01:05:55.940
<v Speaker 5>that started the momentum. People went, hmm,

1144
01:05:56.180 --> 01:05:58.080
<v Speaker 5>interesting. Two,

1145
01:05:58.160 --> 01:05:59.580
<v Speaker 5>four percent is public funding.

1146
01:06:00.500 --> 01:06:02.100
<v Speaker 5>So they got some real money behind them.

1147
01:06:03.080 --> 01:06:04.280
<v Speaker 5>So those of us who

1148
01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:06.180
<v Speaker 5>are not happy with Labor, stick

1149
01:06:06.180 --> 01:06:08.160
<v Speaker 5>with, but on the basis that

1150
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:10.060
<v Speaker 5>strict

1151
01:06:10.060 --> 01:06:11.140
<v Speaker 5>preference flow.

1152
01:06:14.260 --> 01:06:16.240
<v Speaker 5>And a very interesting

1153
01:06:16.240 --> 01:06:18.160
<v Speaker 5>phenomenon that's happening now

1154
01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:19.520
<v Speaker 5>on the

1155
01:06:19.520 --> 01:06:22.300
<v Speaker 5>small liberal brand started

1156
01:06:22.300 --> 01:06:23.480
<v Speaker 5>in Western Australia

1157
01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:25.500
<v Speaker 5>with Liberals of Forests.

1158
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:28.440
<v Speaker 5>They just left over environment.

1159
01:06:28.580 --> 01:06:29.980
<v Speaker 5>Remember that the first

1160
01:06:29.980 --> 01:06:32.060
<v Speaker 5>conservationists were Liberals.

1161
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:34.100
<v Speaker 5>Very strong.

1162
01:06:35.540 --> 01:06:36.340
<v Speaker 5>That in

1163
01:06:36.340 --> 01:06:37.940
<v Speaker 5>our, oh God, I thought it was

1164
01:06:37.940 --> 01:06:40.080
<v Speaker 5>Vaucluse, you know, those North Shore things.

1165
01:06:40.260 --> 01:06:42.320
<v Speaker 5>I mean, they got a vote in the last

1166
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 5>state election. They got 14% of the vote.

1167
01:06:45.160 --> 01:06:45.760
<v Speaker 5>You know?

1168
01:06:46.540 --> 01:06:48.280
<v Speaker 5>So there are, and we saw

1169
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:50.180
<v Speaker 5>it in Tasmania as well. The Liberal vote

1170
01:06:50.180 --> 01:06:52.220
<v Speaker 5>collapsed. Labor fell a little bit and the Greens.

1171
01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:53.580
<v Speaker 5>Liberals voted Green.

1172
01:06:54.780 --> 01:06:56.200
<v Speaker 5>So don't, forget thinking

1173
01:06:56.200 --> 01:06:57.900
<v Speaker 5>left and right. Think flux.

1174
01:07:00.600 --> 01:07:02.140
<v Speaker 5>And work with the flux.

1175
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:05.640
<v Speaker 5>But just to

1176
01:07:06.120 --> 01:07:07.400
<v Speaker 5>summarize, I want to be really clear.

1177
01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:09.460
<v Speaker 5>We can't afford to say anymore

1178
01:07:10.100 --> 01:07:10.700
<v Speaker 5>Labor's fucked.

1179
01:07:12.060 --> 01:07:14.140
<v Speaker 5>We say Labor's

1180
01:07:14.140 --> 01:07:14.860
<v Speaker 5>fucked and

1181
01:07:16.080 --> 01:07:18.020
<v Speaker 5>I'm going to put a lot of energy in to make it

1182
01:07:18.020 --> 01:07:20.000
<v Speaker 5>unfucked. And one of the things, someone told me this

1183
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.100
<v Speaker 5>in Sydney. There's

1184
01:07:22.100 --> 01:07:24.000
<v Speaker 5>this crazy thing that Kareem got

1185
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.100
<v Speaker 5>through of direct election for the

1186
01:07:26.660 --> 01:07:27.380
<v Speaker 5>party president.

1187
01:07:28.860 --> 01:07:29.980
<v Speaker 5>And there's all these old

1188
01:07:29.980 --> 01:07:32.360
<v Speaker 5>Labor members, you know, left in disgust.

1189
01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:33.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean, how many of them are there?

1190
01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:36.660
<v Speaker 5>Who are all thinking of getting back in?

1191
01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:38.600
<v Speaker 5>And the reason is, they're

1192
01:07:38.600 --> 01:07:40.300
<v Margo Kingston>convinced that Kareem's going to stand it.

1193
01:07:42.140 --> 01:07:42.820
<v Margo Kingston>If you're

1194
01:07:42.820 --> 01:07:43.800
<v Margo Kingston>an old Labor person,

1195
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:46.320
<v Margo Kingston>get back in there.

1196
01:07:47.220 --> 01:07:48.340
<v Margo Kingston>Fight the good fight.

1197
01:07:49.680 --> 01:07:51.080
<v Margo Kingston>Give the stayers

1198
01:07:51.080 --> 01:07:52.820
<v Margo Kingston>who have stayed in on the basis that

1199
01:07:52.820 --> 01:07:54.760
<v Margo Kingston>we've got to be on the inside to fix it. Give them

1200
01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:56.760
<v Margo Kingston>some more energy. Give them some more hope.

1201
01:07:57.380 --> 01:07:58.420
<v Margo Kingston>Big, big fight

1202
01:07:58.420 --> 01:08:00.200
<v Margo Kingston>over Labor Party's direction now.

1203
01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:02.820
<v Margo Kingston>And whether we like it or not, it's either Labor

1204
01:08:02.820 --> 01:08:03.180
<v Margo Kingston>or Liberal.

1205
01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:05.800
<v Margo Kingston>Thank you.

1206
01:08:06.700 --> 01:08:07.660
<v Margo Kingston>Thank you.

1207
01:08:15.020 --> 01:08:15.980
<v Speaker 3>Something which

1208
01:08:16.480 --> 01:08:18.740
<v Speaker 3>came up when I listened to Robert Mann

1209
01:08:18.740 --> 01:08:20.820
<v Speaker 3>and Philip Adams the other day, and yourself,

1210
01:08:21.740 --> 01:08:22.900
<v Speaker 3>was that we can't seem to

1211
01:08:22.900 --> 01:08:24.960
<v Speaker 3>figure out why it is that so many

1212
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:26.920
<v Speaker 3>Australian people just go along with the lies

1213
01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:28.060
<v Speaker 3>they're told and don't

1214
01:08:28.740 --> 01:08:29.220
<v Speaker 3>really

1215
01:08:32.440 --> 01:08:34.020
<v Speaker 3>buck anything against it.

1216
01:08:34.280 --> 01:08:36.200
<v Speaker 3>And I'd like to put something to you

1217
01:08:36.200 --> 01:08:36.580
<v Speaker 3>that maybe

1218
01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:40.180
<v Speaker 3>there's something nobody seems to have thought

1219
01:08:40.180 --> 01:08:42.020
<v Speaker 3>about very much, and that's the fact that

1220
01:08:42.020 --> 01:08:44.180
<v Speaker 3>Charlie Armstrong, I think you said it was Charlie Armstrong,

1221
01:08:44.400 --> 01:08:45.720
<v Speaker 3>he seems to be on a really

1222
01:08:47.480 --> 01:08:47.920
<v Speaker 3>promising

1223
01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:50.060
<v Speaker 3>lead when he mentions individualism.

1224
01:08:50.460 --> 01:08:52.180
<v Speaker 3>Because you know, one thing that Howard has

1225
01:08:52.180 --> 01:08:54.220
<v Speaker 3>done absolutely brilliantly since he's been

1226
01:08:54.220 --> 01:08:55.980
<v Speaker 3>in, is to divide and rule.

1227
01:08:56.920 --> 01:08:58.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean, the way the

1228
01:08:58.200 --> 01:08:59.960
<v Speaker 3>contract Labor system

1229
01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:02.040
<v Speaker 3>has grown in Australia in

1230
01:09:02.040 --> 01:09:04.040
<v Speaker 3>recent years makes so many

1231
01:09:04.040 --> 01:09:05.220
<v Speaker 3>people so insecure.

1232
01:09:06.420 --> 01:09:07.800
<v Speaker 3>The way he manipulated,

1233
01:09:08.120 --> 01:09:09.800
<v Speaker 3>very cleverly manipulated, the

1234
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:12.080
<v Speaker 3>Republic debate,

1235
01:09:13.120 --> 01:09:13.860
<v Speaker 3>it's all

1236
01:09:13.860 --> 01:09:15.600
<v Speaker 3>designed to divide

1237
01:09:16.220 --> 01:09:17.980
<v Speaker 3>and rule. Whatever else he does, he divides

1238
01:09:17.980 --> 01:09:19.520
<v Speaker 3>and rules, but at the same time,

1239
01:09:19.580 --> 01:09:21.620
<v Speaker 3>and I think you made this point yourself,

1240
01:09:22.660 --> 01:09:24.260
<v Speaker 3>there's a kind of a collection

1241
01:09:24.260 --> 01:09:26.060
<v Speaker 3>of not the Liberal Party, but

1242
01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:27.820
<v Speaker 3>a collection of like-minded individuals.

1243
01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:28.820
<v Speaker 3>There's Howard,

1244
01:09:30.060 --> 01:09:31.140
<v Speaker 3>Ruddock, Alston,

1245
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:33.800
<v Speaker 3>and Packer,

1246
01:09:34.040 --> 01:09:34.800
<v Speaker 3>and Murdoch.

1247
01:09:36.040 --> 01:09:38.260
<v Speaker 3>And they form a kind of a party

1248
01:09:38.260 --> 01:09:40.160
<v Speaker 3>or an elite.

1249
01:09:41.040 --> 01:09:42.140
<v Speaker 3>They unite

1250
01:09:42.140 --> 01:09:43.600
<v Speaker 3>while they spend,

1251
01:09:43.860 --> 01:09:46.100
<v Speaker 3>their whole idea is to divide everyone

1252
01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:47.580
<v Speaker 3>else. Well they

1253
01:09:48.340 --> 01:09:49.000
<v Speaker 5>unite

1254
01:09:50.320 --> 01:09:51.480
<v Speaker 5>the battlers,

1255
01:09:52.340 --> 01:09:53.340
<v Speaker 5>the true elite,

1256
01:09:53.660 --> 01:09:55.300
<v Speaker 5>calling us losers of the elite.

1257
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:58.000
<v Speaker 5>And they have won the language

1258
01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:59.880
<v Speaker 5>wars, haven't they?

1259
01:10:01.380 --> 01:10:02.260
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, look,

1260
01:10:02.360 --> 01:10:03.920
<v Speaker 5>a lot of it,

1261
01:10:04.040 --> 01:10:04.520
<v Speaker 5>but the two is,

1262
01:10:06.980 --> 01:10:09.640
<v Margo Kingston>I'd really recommend if you're interested in all this stuff,

1263
01:10:10.060 --> 01:10:11.440
<v Margo Kingston>having a read of Web Diary,

1264
01:10:11.540 --> 01:10:12.920
<v Margo Kingston>because the basis of what I said today,

1265
01:10:13.060 --> 01:10:14.680
<v Margo Kingston>I've published it over the last couple of weeks,

1266
01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:17.700
<v Margo Kingston>and just amazing responses from people,

1267
01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:19.760
<v Speaker 5>including most interestingly,

1268
01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:21.420
<v Speaker 5>the Liberal voters who,

1269
01:10:22.940 --> 01:10:27.280
<v Margo Kingston>this whole series of emails I'm getting now

1270
01:10:27.280 --> 01:10:28.360
<v Margo Kingston>from this guy, Daniel Moy,

1271
01:10:28.480 --> 01:10:30.160
<v Margo Kingston>who lives in Roseville on the North Shore.

1272
01:10:31.520 --> 01:10:33.040
<v Margo Kingston>You might be interested to know that,

1273
01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:33.900
<v Speaker 5>you know,

1274
01:10:34.040 --> 01:10:36.180
<v Speaker 5>I'm a bit uncomfortable with Howard on certain matters.

1275
01:10:37.820 --> 01:10:39.580
<v Speaker 5>And then he just gave me,

1276
01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:42.380
<v Speaker 5>he gave me the most amazing pen portraits

1277
01:10:42.380 --> 01:10:45.220
<v Speaker 5>of the typical Australian male's life

1278
01:10:45.220 --> 01:10:47.060
<v Speaker 5>and the typical Australian female's life.

1279
01:10:47.260 --> 01:10:49.320
<v Speaker 5>And it's basically that they have no time for anything

1280
01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:51.020
<v Speaker 5>but the die.

1281
01:10:51.160 --> 01:10:55.400
<v Speaker 5>And he said that the thing that is keeping Howard in power

1282
01:10:55.400 --> 01:10:56.280
<v Speaker 5>and what is,

1283
01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:00.600
<v Speaker 5>he will do anything to maintain for the next election

1284
01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:01.240
<v Speaker 5>is the property boom,

1285
01:11:01.940 --> 01:11:03.720
<v Speaker 5>because they feel so insecure.

1286
01:11:03.780 --> 01:11:04.020
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1287
01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:06.220
<v Speaker 5>And they're so aware that it's the property rises

1288
01:11:06.220 --> 01:11:08.680
<v Speaker 5>that are, oh, it's okay, I'm all right.

1289
01:11:08.860 --> 01:11:14.680
<v Speaker 5>I can, and, which of course is meaning

1290
01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:16.500
<v Speaker 5>that poor people can never buy a home.

1291
01:11:16.580 --> 01:11:17.800
<v Speaker 5>So they're condemned to be all renters.

1292
01:11:17.860 --> 01:11:20.680
<v Speaker 5>Meanwhile, we have this sort of growing property class.

1293
01:11:21.080 --> 01:11:23.460
<v Margo Kingston>The other thing he's done to win his marginal seats,

1294
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:26.320
<v Margo Kingston>this aspirational stuff, is just poured money

1295
01:11:26.320 --> 01:11:27.340
<v Speaker 5>into middle class welfare.

1296
01:11:28.320 --> 01:11:29.120
<v Speaker 5>Poured it in.

1297
01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:33.380
<v Speaker 5>And again, that's, you know, dividing the,

1298
01:11:33.380 --> 01:11:33.540
<v Speaker 5>you know, the

1299
01:11:33.540 --> 01:11:33.620
<v Speaker 5>and the, you know, the, you know,

1300
01:11:33.620 --> 01:11:34.300
<v Speaker 5>the society.

1301
01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:35.620
<v Speaker 5>So you have this enormous underclass.

1302
01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:37.940
<v Speaker 5>I think I read yesterday that a third of Australians are

1303
01:11:37.940 --> 01:11:38.300
<v Speaker 5>on welfare.

1304
01:11:38.860 --> 01:11:39.220
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1305
01:11:40.260 --> 01:11:42.480
<v Speaker 5>Now, you know, no one's representing them anymore.

1306
01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:44.940
<v Speaker 5>What Howard will do if he gets Senate reform through?

1307
01:11:45.620 --> 01:11:48.480
<v Speaker 5>Or if he gets the numbers, like if he wins half the seats

1308
01:11:48.480 --> 01:11:49.400
<v Speaker 5>and only needs another number.

1309
01:11:49.440 --> 01:11:51.780
<v Speaker 5>All he needs is Mel Colston and they just buy someone off.

1310
01:11:52.240 --> 01:11:53.940
<v Speaker 5>He'll put through voluntary voting, you know.

1311
01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:54.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1312
01:11:55.160 --> 01:11:57.460
<v Speaker 5>And we'll be like America where the underclass will go,

1313
01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.440
<v Speaker 5>no one cares about me and then we'll go for the, you know.

1314
01:12:00.580 --> 01:12:02.840
<v Speaker 7>The insecurity factor makes it so easy.

1315
01:12:12.380 --> 01:12:14.360
<v Speaker 5>Well, that's the big con.

1316
01:12:14.620 --> 01:12:17.840
<v Speaker 5>I tried to sort of say in my speech that, you know,

1317
01:12:17.860 --> 01:12:21.320
<v Speaker 5>working people as a social contract gets ripped up

1318
01:12:21.320 --> 01:12:22.840
<v Speaker 5>and professional people.

1319
01:12:23.320 --> 01:12:25.500
<v Speaker 5>They're really stuff.

1320
01:12:25.660 --> 01:12:27.000
<v Speaker 5>They've got no power anymore.

1321
01:12:27.380 --> 01:12:30.200
<v Speaker 5>So you do the downward envy thing and the fear thing.

1322
01:12:30.420 --> 01:12:32.480
<v Speaker 5>You go, oh, you know.

1323
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:32.820
<v Speaker 5>He's angry.

1324
01:12:32.820 --> 01:12:32.940
<v Speaker 5>And, you know, the thing is,

1325
01:12:32.940 --> 01:12:38.080
<v Speaker 5>he's actually creating the fear economically and putting ointment

1326
01:12:38.080 --> 01:12:41.020
<v Speaker 5>on the fear with his, we will decide, and, and, and,

1327
01:12:41.020 --> 01:12:43.040
<v Speaker 5>we'll, we'll be under America's trench coat,

1328
01:12:43.140 --> 01:12:47.860
<v Speaker 5>and all the, the things he's, he's doing, and, and, what,

1329
01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:52.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, the left is doing is, oh, we're ashamed to be Australian,

1330
01:12:53.020 --> 01:12:54.900
<v Speaker 5>which brings all those people just immediately

1331
01:12:54.900 --> 01:12:55.800
<v Speaker 5>over to our cause.

1332
01:12:59.820 --> 01:13:02.560
<v Speaker 5>And, what smaller Liberals do, is they speak

1333
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:06.640
<v Speaker 5>about civil liberties and democratic institutions and checks and balances on

1334
01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:09.960
<v Margo Kingston>power and Australians say I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

1335
01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:15.580
<v Margo Kingston>We really have to do some hard work on getting our message across because you

1336
01:13:15.580 --> 01:13:18.800
<v Speaker 5>know of course the final I mean the irony of all this is I don't have to say this

1337
01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:29.600
<v Speaker 5>but I probably do now is that types like us really care about a baby is born and

1338
01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:35.140
<v Speaker 5>that baby's got a fair show. We really care about powerless people and you know

1339
01:13:35.140 --> 01:13:39.220
<v Speaker 5>we might make a lot of mistakes in the policies we come up with but we're the

1340
01:13:39.220 --> 01:13:43.880
<v Speaker 5>ones with working in ordinary people and underprivileged people's interests at

1341
01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:48.800
<v Speaker 5>heart and and we're the ones that have been successfully tagged as the people

1342
01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:53.900
<v Speaker 5>that don't give a shit about them. Sort of a lot of work to do and I mean what we've got

1343
01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:58.160
<v Speaker 5>in our favour is we've got brains.

1344
01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:07.500
<v Speaker 5>And is there any use to all our big picture analysis? Are we going to put it to use?

1345
01:14:09.060 --> 01:14:12.160
<v Speaker 5>Are we going to get off our asses and turn this fucking thing around?

1346
01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:20.780
<v Chair>I think I think we have to fight for the word we. Because the way John Howard uses it

1347
01:14:20.780 --> 01:14:27.080
<v Chair>we're all the way back to the preamble. The we is not an inclusive term. It's a wedge.

1348
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:29.080
<v Chair>And you say you know.

1349
01:14:29.080 --> 01:14:29.580
<v Chair>We are.

1350
01:14:29.580 --> 01:14:32.220
<v Chair>We are ashamed to be Australian. We can't afford to be that way.

1351
01:14:32.220 --> 01:14:40.760
<v Speaker 5>Can I give one practical example which excited me at the time after 1998. Chris Sidoti was

1352
01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:46.940
<v Speaker 5>head of the, was human rights commissioner with the Human Rights Commission and he set

1353
01:14:46.940 --> 01:14:53.540
<v Speaker 5>up this thing called Bush Talks and he went out to all the One Nation outposts, deliverance

1354
01:14:53.540 --> 01:14:57.860
<v Speaker 5>country and he set up town meetings.

1355
01:14:57.860 --> 01:15:02.880
<v Speaker 5>And he said you people you you have rights.

1356
01:15:03.100 --> 01:15:04.880
<v Speaker 5>You have right to medical care.

1357
01:15:05.040 --> 01:15:07.200
<v Speaker 5>You have right to have education where you are.

1358
01:15:07.240 --> 01:15:12.820
<v Speaker 5>You have the right to these services and these international instruments give you rights

1359
01:15:12.820 --> 01:15:19.220
<v Speaker 5>and the Human Rights Commission is about improving your quality of life by helping you to exercise

1360
01:15:19.220 --> 01:15:21.060
<v Speaker 5>your rights and insist on them.

1361
01:15:22.440 --> 01:15:23.480
<v Speaker 5>Extraordinary thing to do.

1362
01:15:25.400 --> 01:15:27.940
<v Speaker 5>and John Anderson's response after 98

1363
01:15:27.940 --> 01:15:31.760
<v Speaker 5>fantastic response is he decided he wanted to have a rural summit

1364
01:15:31.760 --> 01:15:35.820
<v Speaker 5>so he got a combination of experts and really grassroots activists in the bush

1365
01:15:35.820 --> 01:15:38.540
<v Speaker 5>to come to Canberra, the site of power for the rural summit

1366
01:15:39.400 --> 01:15:42.720
<v Speaker 5>and naturally enough he didn't include the Human Rights Commission on that list

1367
01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:47.800
<v Speaker 5>and enough country people rang up

1368
01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:52.080
<v Speaker 5>and said I want Chris Sidoti there, I heard him and he's got something to say to us

1369
01:15:52.080 --> 01:15:54.720
<v Speaker 5>and Chris Sidoti was there, now this is something

1370
01:15:55.600 --> 01:15:57.960
<v Speaker 5>this is a very interesting thing to think about

1371
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:03.820
<v Speaker 5>that was an outreach project which overcame that thing

1372
01:16:03.820 --> 01:16:07.780
<v Speaker 5>about country people, Christ their culture's dying, their community's dying

1373
01:16:07.780 --> 01:16:10.120
<v Speaker 5>all the things that make their community are falling apart

1374
01:16:10.120 --> 01:16:16.040
<v Speaker 5>all those city people care about is the blacks and the refos and the Asians

1375
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:20.260
<v Speaker 5>and then he came up and said no no, human rights are about your rights too

1376
01:16:22.280 --> 01:16:25.360
<v Chair>I think on that note we'll thank Margot for a wonderful talk

1377
01:16:25.360 --> 01:16:26.180
<v Chair>applause

1378
01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:38.040
<v Margo Kingston>could I just say one other thing

1379
01:16:40.180 --> 01:16:45.100
<v Margo Kingston>the, can't be overestimated the importance of Adelaide in the fight back

1380
01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:49.880
<v Speaker 5>it's Adelaide's festival of ideas, it's unique in Australia

1381
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:51.800
<v Speaker 5>and have thousands of people

1382
01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:55.880
<v Speaker 5>coming here on a weekend to get worried about the state of the world is unbelievable

1383
01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:03.360
<v Speaker 5>you guys, the Adelaide culture, the Adelaide side of being Australian

1384
01:17:03.360 --> 01:17:06.060
<v Speaker 5>you guys have got a huge responsibility

1385
01:17:06.660 --> 01:17:09.900
<v Speaker 5>and you're so lucky to live here in this culture

1386
01:17:09.900 --> 01:17:13.760
<v Speaker 5>and I'm very inspired and grateful that I was invited, thank you

1387
01:17:15.380 --> 01:17:15.940
<v Speaker 5>applause

1388
01:17:22.420 --> 01:17:23.660
<v Speaker 5>music

1389
01:17:23.660 --> 01:17:24.280
<v Speaker 5>music

1390
01:17:24.280 --> 01:17:24.360
<v Speaker 5>music

