WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.640
<v Robyn Williams>Hello, I'm Robin Williams. We're going to start even though people are still coming in.

2
00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:08.940
<v Robyn Williams>Seem to be interested in technology for some reason.

3
00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:20.360
<v Robyn Williams>I stole this microphone from Adelaide about 24 years ago. This is a microphone.

4
00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.680
<v Robyn Williams>And if people dispute it, it's big enough to hit them over the swede.

5
00:00:25.680 --> 00:00:33.060
<v Robyn Williams>And this is a tape recorder. It's a vast thing, which they also gave me in 1972.

6
00:00:33.680 --> 00:00:40.960
<v Robyn Williams>And when I take these things out to do interviews with modern professors from Silicon Valley, they often titter.

7
00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:47.420
<v Robyn Williams>And because I get so hurt when people laugh, after all, it's the best technology in the world, even though it's old.

8
00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:54.620
<v Robyn Williams>When I was in Oxford interviewing George Monbiot, who used to be there as a fellow in Rights for the Guardian,

9
00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:55.660
<v Robyn Williams>he put on it.

10
00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:57.140
<v Robyn Williams>And he put on it this little label. It says,

11
00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:03.120
<v Robyn Williams>Approved. This technology has the potential to be used for the common good. Sincerely, the New Luddites.

12
00:01:04.660 --> 00:01:07.500
<v Robyn Williams>Not against progress, merely redefining it.

13
00:01:08.620 --> 00:01:10.860
<v Robyn Williams>So be kind to my tape recorder, frankly.

14
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:18.000
<v Robyn Williams>I mentioned in my own session on gambling with speed, a gentleman whose name I've now remembered,

15
00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.400
<v Robyn Williams>who's also at the University of London, like one of our guests, John Gray,

16
00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:25.260
<v Robyn Williams>who said that technology combined with the unfettered free market,

17
00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:27.900
<v Robyn Williams>is the greatest force for change in human history.

18
00:01:28.300 --> 00:01:33.300
<v Robyn Williams>And it's affecting many of those aspects of life which we actually treasure.

19
00:01:34.520 --> 00:01:37.200
<v Robyn Williams>And which we take for granted as being there for good.

20
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:40.180
<v Robyn Williams>Well, maybe that's what we'll talk about.

21
00:01:40.340 --> 00:01:45.500
<v Robyn Williams>We'll talk about the technological revolution, and maybe ask, the revolution for what?

22
00:01:46.260 --> 00:01:54.660
<v Robyn Williams>Now, our first couple of speakers are in fact Australian, although they might not necessarily sound like it.

23
00:01:54.800 --> 00:01:55.660
<v Robyn Williams>The first couple of speakers are in fact Australian, although they might not necessarily sound like it.

24
00:01:55.660 --> 00:01:59.420
<v Robyn Williams>The first is Bob Bishop, who is in fact based in Silicon Valley,

25
00:01:59.580 --> 00:02:04.060
<v Robyn Williams>and he has for some time been head of his own IT organization.

26
00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:05.800
<v Robyn Williams>Would you please welcome Bob Bishop.

27
00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:15.880
<v Bob Bishop>Thank you, Robin. Good afternoon, everyone.

28
00:02:16.320 --> 00:02:25.460
<v Bob Bishop>Well, 1901, a hundred years ago, Federation time, can you imagine if you were around at that time,

29
00:02:25.660 --> 00:02:29.440
<v Bob Bishop>could you imagine the future a hundred years from then?

30
00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.120
<v Bob Bishop>Year 2001. That would have been a difficult, difficult thing to do.

31
00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:36.640
<v Bob Bishop>For example, the railroads.

32
00:02:36.940 --> 00:02:40.360
<v Bob Bishop>Would you have pictured how they built Australia and the cities?

33
00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:42.140
<v Bob Bishop>The automobile, the freeways.

34
00:02:43.640 --> 00:02:52.260
<v Bob Bishop>Boeing 747, could you imagine, could fly you from San Francisco to Sydney in less than 14 hours with 400 passengers?

35
00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.880
<v Bob Bishop>Now, I was on a flight like that yesterday.

36
00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:55.640
<v Bob Bishop>Now, I was on a flight like that yesterday.

37
00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:59.320
<v Bob Bishop>That's fine, but it took us 10 hours to change planes in Sydney.

38
00:02:59.980 --> 00:03:01.080
<v Bob Bishop>That wasn't fun.

39
00:03:01.700 --> 00:03:06.300
<v Bob Bishop>But could you imagine the electrification of the cities and our homes?

40
00:03:06.640 --> 00:03:10.960
<v Bob Bishop>Could you imagine refrigeration in your house, the telephone, the radio?

41
00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:20.660
<v Bob Bishop>As a matter of fact, December 12th, this year, 2001, is the 100th anniversary of the very first radio transmission

42
00:03:21.440 --> 00:03:25.620
<v Bob Bishop>by Marconi from Cornwall, England, to Newfoundland.

43
00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:26.480
<v Bob Bishop>In Canada.

44
00:03:26.980 --> 00:03:28.860
<v Bob Bishop>So there you have it, a hundred years.

45
00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:34.300
<v Bob Bishop>But in that hundred years, we also had, of course, the talking movie, the cinema.

46
00:03:34.420 --> 00:03:45.400
<v Bob Bishop>In fact, Al Jolson in 1927, he made the very first talkie movie, and his very first words on the very first talkie movie,

47
00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.780
<v Bob Bishop>You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet.

48
00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:50.900
<v Bob Bishop>And that's the title of this little program here this afternoon.

49
00:03:51.420 --> 00:03:55.600
<v Bob Bishop>But of course, along came World War II, radar, nuclear weapons, and the war.

50
00:03:55.600 --> 00:04:03.840
<v Bob Bishop>And then, shortly thereafter, television, computing, the fax machine, robotics, satellites, artificial intelligence.

51
00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:10.660
<v Bob Bishop>Now, each one of these technologies put a thousand new words into our dictionary.

52
00:04:11.100 --> 00:04:12.660
<v Bob Bishop>Each one of these technologies.

53
00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:18.800
<v Bob Bishop>And I would say this, we are swimming in technology like a fish swims in the sea.

54
00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.380
<v Bob Bishop>We fundamentally don't notice it.

55
00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:25.280
<v Bob Bishop>I would imagine, in fact, I would guarantee that every person in this room,

56
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:31.880
<v Bob Bishop>has either driven a car, made a phone call, watched television, been to the cinema, been in an aircraft,

57
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:34.240
<v Bob Bishop>and you just haven't thought anything of it.

58
00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:35.500
<v Bob Bishop>And it's all technology.

59
00:04:35.820 --> 00:04:42.660
<v Bob Bishop>Of course, technology is fundamentally what's been invented since you were born.

60
00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.740
<v Bob Bishop>That's roughly what the definition of technology is.

61
00:04:46.020 --> 00:04:49.220
<v Bob Bishop>So even a nail, a simple nail, was technology.

62
00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:54.000
<v Bob Bishop>The Flintstone head of a spear was technology.

63
00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:56.100
<v Bob Bishop>And technology was technology at one point in the past.

64
00:04:57.200 --> 00:04:59.520
<v Bob Bishop>Technology cannot be disinvented.

65
00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:01.820
<v Bob Bishop>Once it's invented, it's out there.

66
00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:03.720
<v Bob Bishop>And it's out there for everybody.

67
00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:10.480
<v Bob Bishop>But we know that technology can be harnessed either for good or for bad.

68
00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:12.660
<v Bob Bishop>That's really the key question.

69
00:05:14.020 --> 00:05:16.020
<v Bob Bishop>Today, technology is accelerating.

70
00:05:16.380 --> 00:05:17.620
<v Bob Bishop>It always has been.

71
00:05:17.820 --> 00:05:20.300
<v Bob Bishop>But it's in a compound acceleration.

72
00:05:20.900 --> 00:05:22.680
<v Bob Bishop>It kind of is additive.

73
00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.320
<v Bob Bishop>And if you add things together geometrically,

74
00:05:26.380 --> 00:05:30.800
<v Bob Bishop>you ultimately get an exponential increase in the strength of technology.

75
00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:37.760
<v Bob Bishop>Today, we're shipping per year over 100 million computers into the marketplace.

76
00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:45.380
<v Bob Bishop>Every year, a billion smart cards and over 10 billion embedded processor chips.

77
00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.820
<v Bob Bishop>That's what's going out there right now.

78
00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:50.640
<v Bob Bishop>That's an enormous amount of compute power.

79
00:05:50.640 --> 00:05:54.580
<v Bob Bishop>We're building an intelligent landscape, whether we like it or not.

80
00:05:54.820 --> 00:06:00.320
<v Bob Bishop>And obviously, over time, this is all going to be connected probably to the Internet.

81
00:06:00.900 --> 00:06:08.580
<v Bob Bishop>Now, one of the major driving forces behind this sweep in electronics communication gear

82
00:06:08.580 --> 00:06:10.580
<v Bob Bishop>is what we call Moore's Law.

83
00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:12.560
<v Bob Bishop>This is a driving force.

84
00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:14.500
<v Bob Bishop>And roughly, it goes like this.

85
00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:19.540
<v Bob Bishop>Every two years, we can generate twice the performance

86
00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:21.580
<v Bob Bishop>at one-half the price.

87
00:06:22.140 --> 00:06:26.180
<v Bob Bishop>Now, that's a price performance improvement of four to one every two years.

88
00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:28.480
<v Bob Bishop>If you do that for 10 years in a row,

89
00:06:29.060 --> 00:06:33.620
<v Bob Bishop>you actually get a price performance improvement of 1,000, a factor of 1,000.

90
00:06:33.940 --> 00:06:35.680
<v Bob Bishop>If you do it for 20 years in a row,

91
00:06:35.820 --> 00:06:40.940
<v Bob Bishop>you get a factor of one million, an improvement in price performance of one million.

92
00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:42.740
<v Bob Bishop>That's roughly what Moore's Law is.

93
00:06:43.060 --> 00:06:46.500
<v Bob Bishop>Now, what that means is over the last 20 years,

94
00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:48.020
<v Bob Bishop>we've been able to package

95
00:06:48.580 --> 00:06:53.840
<v Bob Bishop>what was a supercomputer, the Cray-1, into a laptop.

96
00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:55.360
<v Bob Bishop>That's what you have today.

97
00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.940
<v Bob Bishop>You're walking around with a laptop

98
00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:01.340
<v Bob Bishop>with the effectiveness of a supercomputer 20 years ago.

99
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:04.740
<v Bob Bishop>So the question is, does that continue for the next 20 years?

100
00:07:05.380 --> 00:07:07.600
<v Bob Bishop>Will that continue for the next 20 years?

101
00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:10.700
<v Bob Bishop>Would Moore's Law hold up for the next 20 years?

102
00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:14.300
<v Bob Bishop>And there's a lot of debate today on whether that will be the case.

103
00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:16.280
<v Bob Bishop>I suspect it will be,

104
00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.000
<v Bob Bishop>but it will take us down a notch.

105
00:07:18.020 --> 00:07:19.640
<v Bob Bishop>It will take us down to the atomic level,

106
00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:21.020
<v Bob Bishop>if not the subatomic level,

107
00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:23.600
<v Bob Bishop>where we will be building and dealing with

108
00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.560
<v Bob Bishop>what's called quantum computing and the laws of quantum physics.

109
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.260
<v Bob Bishop>But assume now that you have a million to one

110
00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:32.760
<v Bob Bishop>better price performance than today.

111
00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:34.420
<v Bob Bishop>What happens?

112
00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.920
<v Bob Bishop>Well, effectively, everything goes online.

113
00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:40.320
<v Bob Bishop>The world goes online.

114
00:07:40.780 --> 00:07:43.380
<v Bob Bishop>All of content becomes digital.

115
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.200
<v Bob Bishop>So we have a world of digital content online,

116
00:07:48.020 --> 00:07:51.820
<v Bob Bishop>and virtually all of intellectual property in the 21st century

117
00:07:51.820 --> 00:07:54.420
<v Bob Bishop>becomes digital intellectual property.

118
00:07:54.840 --> 00:07:56.860
<v Bob Bishop>My guess, under those circumstances,

119
00:07:57.020 --> 00:07:58.820
<v Bob Bishop>even 20 years from now,

120
00:07:58.980 --> 00:08:04.020
<v Bob Bishop>one half of all world trade will be digital intellectual property.

121
00:08:04.300 --> 00:08:07.200
<v Bob Bishop>Of course, to make it work, you need the software.

122
00:08:08.400 --> 00:08:09.900
<v Bob Bishop>The software is the key.

123
00:08:11.020 --> 00:08:13.980
<v Bob Bishop>If the software don't work, the systems don't work.

124
00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:16.760
<v Bob Bishop>If the software fails, the system fails.

125
00:08:16.760 --> 00:08:20.440
<v Bob Bishop>If the software has got bugs in it, the system has got bugs.

126
00:08:20.760 --> 00:08:24.260
<v Bob Bishop>So it's really a question of can we build the software

127
00:08:24.260 --> 00:08:25.560
<v Bob Bishop>that pulls all this together.

128
00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:28.380
<v Bob Bishop>That's a very intelligent software,

129
00:08:28.640 --> 00:08:32.620
<v Bob Bishop>and in fact, it needs to be idiot-proof, as we all know,

130
00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:34.940
<v Bob Bishop>and human-friendly, somewhat.

131
00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:36.840
<v Bob Bishop>And that's what it ain't today.

132
00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:38.920
<v Bob Bishop>So we've got a long way to go,

133
00:08:39.020 --> 00:08:40.400
<v Bob Bishop>but I suspect in 20 years,

134
00:08:40.900 --> 00:08:42.960
<v Bob Bishop>all the software will become very friendly.

135
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:45.940
<v Bob Bishop>But there's other forces driving,

136
00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:48.860
<v Bob Bishop>driving innovation and driving technology.

137
00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:50.740
<v Bob Bishop>And roughly, these other forces,

138
00:08:50.900 --> 00:08:53.520
<v Bob Bishop>when they compound together with Moore's law,

139
00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:55.660
<v Bob Bishop>they produce an explosive effect.

140
00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:58.900
<v Bob Bishop>The first one of which I mentioned is venture capital funding.

141
00:08:59.660 --> 00:09:01.980
<v Bob Bishop>VC funding around the world today

142
00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:03.780
<v Bob Bishop>is of the magnitude of $100 billion,

143
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.780
<v Bob Bishop>getting poured into new innovative ideas,

144
00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:09.160
<v Bob Bishop>largely in the area of technology.

145
00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.680
<v Bob Bishop>There's another force, and that's deregulation and privatization

146
00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:15.920
<v Bob Bishop>of industry, like Telstra, for example.

147
00:09:15.940 --> 00:09:16.760
<v Bob Bishop>Here in Australia.

148
00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:21.200
<v Bob Bishop>That puts Telstra in the game of having to compete

149
00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.080
<v Bob Bishop>with the world's best technologists.

150
00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:24.940
<v Bob Bishop>And they are pretty good,

151
00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:27.200
<v Bob Bishop>and they're going to use a lot of their revenues

152
00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:30.520
<v Bob Bishop>to be an effective innovator in technology.

153
00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:35.180
<v Bob Bishop>Governments, however, are still very important in technology

154
00:09:35.180 --> 00:09:38.660
<v Bob Bishop>because basic science, underneath it all, needs to be funded.

155
00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:40.320
<v Bob Bishop>It has a longer-term payback,

156
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.580
<v Bob Bishop>and eventually, basic science becomes technology.

157
00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:48.640
<v Bob Bishop>So what we're watching are all these forces

158
00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:52.000
<v Bob Bishop>driving what we call information communication technology.

159
00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:54.700
<v Bob Bishop>Secondly, material sciences,

160
00:09:55.260 --> 00:09:57.320
<v Bob Bishop>what we would call smart materials,

161
00:09:57.580 --> 00:09:58.780
<v Bob Bishop>bioresponsor materials,

162
00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.060
<v Bob Bishop>materials that actually can fix themselves,

163
00:10:02.860 --> 00:10:07.060
<v Bob Bishop>and probably are built at the micro level,

164
00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:08.160
<v Bob Bishop>at the atomic level,

165
00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:11.480
<v Bob Bishop>and exploding into what we call nanoscience,

166
00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:12.940
<v Bob Bishop>nanomaterial, nanotechnology.

167
00:10:12.940 --> 00:10:17.320
<v Bob Bishop>And then thirdly, the other big horizon,

168
00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:18.960
<v Bob Bishop>the big frontier is bioscience.

169
00:10:19.260 --> 00:10:21.620
<v Bob Bishop>And of course, everyone's been tuned in on genomics,

170
00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:24.660
<v Bob Bishop>but that's only a simple first step.

171
00:10:24.820 --> 00:10:28.140
<v Bob Bishop>Beyond genomics is proteomics and functionomics,

172
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.840
<v Bob Bishop>each of which adopts a thousand times more compute power

173
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.260
<v Bob Bishop>than the previous step.

174
00:10:33.400 --> 00:10:34.760
<v Bob Bishop>And this is racing forward.

175
00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:37.100
<v Bob Bishop>Of course, from a good point of view,

176
00:10:37.140 --> 00:10:39.980
<v Bob Bishop>we can say it's disease prediction and prevention,

177
00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.880
<v Bob Bishop>and the real scary part is,

178
00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:47.980
<v Bob Bishop>the ethical, moral issues associated with bioscience.

179
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.220
<v Bob Bishop>But finally, let me talk about what I call the main frontier,

180
00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.960
<v Bob Bishop>and that's the frontier of the brain in the 21st century.

181
00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:57.840
<v Bob Bishop>Now, we have six billion people worldwide,

182
00:10:58.780 --> 00:11:01.780
<v Bob Bishop>and I think we have about two or three hundred here in the room.

183
00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:04.140
<v Bob Bishop>You all have a supercomputer.

184
00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:07.440
<v Bob Bishop>You're all walking around with a very good supercomputer up here.

185
00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:09.340
<v Bob Bishop>It may or may not be switched on.

186
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:12.600
<v Bob Bishop>We know that,

187
00:11:12.920 --> 00:11:15.420
<v Bob Bishop>in the past, we've treated this machine up here

188
00:11:15.420 --> 00:11:17.040
<v Bob Bishop>something like a soup,

189
00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.200
<v Bob Bishop>and we've poured more chemicals into that soup.

190
00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.340
<v Bob Bishop>But the time has come where we can treat the brain

191
00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:26.100
<v Bob Bishop>much like a very complex electrical circuit.

192
00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:29.900
<v Bob Bishop>And in fact, the architecture of the brain,

193
00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:31.920
<v Bob Bishop>the electronic architecture of the brain,

194
00:11:32.020 --> 00:11:33.760
<v Bob Bishop>is starting to reveal itself,

195
00:11:34.040 --> 00:11:36.460
<v Bob Bishop>and we are starting to build now machines

196
00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:40.040
<v Bob Bishop>that somewhat emulate the way the brain is thinking

197
00:11:40.040 --> 00:11:42.340
<v Bob Bishop>in a very broad manner.

198
00:11:42.920 --> 00:11:46.760
<v Bob Bishop>So that brings us down the path of what we call thinking machines.

199
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:48.240
<v Bob Bishop>Can machines think?

200
00:11:48.420 --> 00:11:49.420
<v Bob Bishop>Can they be intelligent?

201
00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:51.120
<v Bob Bishop>Can they have consciousness?

202
00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:54.100
<v Bob Bishop>And this is really a major frontier

203
00:11:54.920 --> 00:11:57.240
<v Bob Bishop>that we're facing right now to understand this.

204
00:11:57.520 --> 00:12:01.060
<v Bob Bishop>I should say that there are three main tools

205
00:12:01.060 --> 00:12:03.740
<v Bob Bishop>that are emerging and converging

206
00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:07.020
<v Bob Bishop>that will break through in the 21st century

207
00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:10.240
<v Bob Bishop>to cause us not only a lot more controversy,

208
00:12:10.380 --> 00:12:12.900
<v Bob Bishop>but I think a lot more interesting questions.

209
00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:13.060
<v Bob Bishop>And I think we're going to have a very interesting debate

210
00:12:13.060 --> 00:12:14.580
<v Bob Bishop>on where it's all going.

211
00:12:14.680 --> 00:12:15.980
<v Bob Bishop>The first of which is the Internet.

212
00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:18.900
<v Bob Bishop>Now, I presume that half this audience

213
00:12:18.900 --> 00:12:20.660
<v Bob Bishop>is connected to the Internet.

214
00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:23.380
<v Bob Bishop>But today that Internet is fairly narrowband,

215
00:12:23.660 --> 00:12:25.740
<v Bob Bishop>page-oriented, alphanumeric.

216
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:26.840
<v Bob Bishop>It's very linear.

217
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.640
<v Bob Bishop>It's not so exciting.

218
00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:31.180
<v Bob Bishop>But add the million-to-one factor

219
00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:32.480
<v Bob Bishop>that I spoke about earlier,

220
00:12:32.660 --> 00:12:35.640
<v Bob Bishop>and this Internet is going to rapidly migrate

221
00:12:35.640 --> 00:12:38.000
<v Bob Bishop>to being a broadband Internet.

222
00:12:38.260 --> 00:12:39.700
<v Bob Bishop>It's going to be fully immersive.

223
00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:41.860
<v Bob Bishop>It's going to be very visual,

224
00:12:42.920 --> 00:12:45.040
<v Bob Bishop>and very nonlinear and associative.

225
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.880
<v Bob Bishop>So it's going to correspond to the way we normally think.

226
00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:51.860
<v Bob Bishop>And I think as we all plug into that new Internet,

227
00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:53.340
<v Bob Bishop>that advanced Internet,

228
00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:54.620
<v Bob Bishop>over the next 20 years,

229
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.920
<v Bob Bishop>this is when the global brain will start to formulate

230
00:12:57.920 --> 00:13:00.940
<v Bob Bishop>and involve pretty much everyone in the world.

231
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.820
<v Bob Bishop>So in there, you have what we call virtual reality,

232
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:07.420
<v Bob Bishop>the ability to build a virtual world

233
00:13:07.420 --> 00:13:10.020
<v Bob Bishop>and to operate within a virtual world,

234
00:13:10.140 --> 00:13:12.260
<v Bob Bishop>to learn within a virtual world,

235
00:13:12.920 --> 00:13:15.140
<v Bob Bishop>and to simulate pretty much anything you want to simulate.

236
00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:17.420
<v Bob Bishop>Now, that's a safe environment

237
00:13:17.420 --> 00:13:19.120
<v Bob Bishop>because it's not a real environment.

238
00:13:19.400 --> 00:13:22.040
<v Bob Bishop>It's fairly low cost because you can repeat and repeat

239
00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:26.440
<v Bob Bishop>that experiment, whatever you're wishing to model and to simulate.

240
00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:30.300
<v Bob Bishop>And, of course, it's totally safe from any accident

241
00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:31.420
<v Bob Bishop>that you may otherwise have.

242
00:13:31.680 --> 00:13:34.820
<v Bob Bishop>So virtual reality being mapped into the Internet

243
00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:39.380
<v Bob Bishop>is a very exciting future synergy

244
00:13:39.380 --> 00:13:41.960
<v Bob Bishop>that we're looking right now at in the face,

245
00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.060
<v Bob Bishop>staring in the face.

246
00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:45.800
<v Bob Bishop>So what comes on top of that?

247
00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.980
<v Bob Bishop>Well, the answer is this intelligent software

248
00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:53.300
<v Bob Bishop>starts to bootstrap itself and learn on its own accord

249
00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:56.800
<v Bob Bishop>overlaid onto that very smart Internet,

250
00:13:57.060 --> 00:13:58.000
<v Bob Bishop>high bandwidth Internet.

251
00:13:58.300 --> 00:14:03.480
<v Bob Bishop>So here we have the possibility of a global network,

252
00:14:03.820 --> 00:14:07.240
<v Bob Bishop>very fast, high speed, virtual, immersive,

253
00:14:08.180 --> 00:14:11.300
<v Bob Bishop>starting to learn for itself and to help all of us,

254
00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:11.940
<v Bob Bishop>all of us.

255
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:13.520
<v Bob Bishop>All of us in the room and all of us around the world.

256
00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:16.780
<v Bob Bishop>And that is, in fact, what I consider the platform,

257
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.900
<v Bob Bishop>the main platform on which most innovations will take place

258
00:14:20.900 --> 00:14:22.320
<v Bob Bishop>in the 21st century,

259
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:28.240
<v Bob Bishop>which leads us to a very special area of controversy,

260
00:14:28.520 --> 00:14:30.940
<v Bob Bishop>and that is the robot, robotics,

261
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:36.080
<v Bob Bishop>and what we think a robot was going to develop into

262
00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:37.600
<v Bob Bishop>in the next few years.

263
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.260
<v Bob Bishop>I happened to chase down,

264
00:14:40.260 --> 00:14:43.620
<v Bob Bishop>if I could, in the last few days,

265
00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:47.180
<v Bob Bishop>who coined the word robot.

266
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.460
<v Bob Bishop>And as far as I can see here,

267
00:14:49.640 --> 00:14:53.180
<v Bob Bishop>we have a gentleman, a bohemian dramatist,

268
00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:55.880
<v Bob Bishop>who actually wrote a book that was called

269
00:14:55.880 --> 00:14:57.260
<v Bob Bishop>Rossum's Universal Robots.

270
00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:00.240
<v Bob Bishop>And it was the story of a reproduction

271
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.140
<v Bob Bishop>of a mechanistic device

272
00:15:04.140 --> 00:15:07.140
<v Bob Bishop>that could somehow be attached to a soul.

273
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.240
<v Bob Bishop>Well, I can leave this story,

274
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.220
<v Bob Bishop>now, in the hands of one of our real experts

275
00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:15.560
<v Bob Bishop>in the area of robotics

276
00:15:15.560 --> 00:15:17.040
<v Bob Bishop>and where it's going

277
00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:19.220
<v Bob Bishop>and what it's going to do to us in the 21st century.

278
00:15:19.640 --> 00:15:22.120
<v Bob Bishop>And if I could pass it on now to our next speaker,

279
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:23.260
<v Bob Bishop>Rodney Brooks,

280
00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:24.940
<v Bob Bishop>we'll hear the rest of that story.

281
00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:33.580
<v Rodney Brooks>Well, good afternoon.

282
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:35.100
<v Rodney Brooks>I'm very pleased to be here

283
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.620
<v Rodney Brooks>and follow what Bob has said,

284
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:39.980
<v Rodney Brooks>although Robin has warned me

285
00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:40.780
<v Rodney Brooks>that he's going next

286
00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:42.380
<v Rodney Brooks>and he's going to be rather sarcastic.

287
00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:44.560
<v Rodney Brooks>So I have to give him some fodder

288
00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:47.360
<v Rodney Brooks>to work on for his Luddite tendencies.

289
00:15:49.660 --> 00:15:51.900
<v Rodney Brooks>Bob talked about robots

290
00:15:51.900 --> 00:15:58.140
<v Rodney Brooks>and I tend to think that robots are, right now,

291
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.860
<v Rodney Brooks>where computers were around 1978.

292
00:16:01.380 --> 00:16:04.220
<v Rodney Brooks>Robots are lagging computers by about 21 years.

293
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:09.960
<v Rodney Brooks>In 1978, computers were mostly off in special locations,

294
00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:11.120
<v Rodney Brooks>in little rooms, isolated rooms,

295
00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:13.260
<v Rodney Brooks>and only the priesthood got to interact with them.

296
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:17.440
<v Rodney Brooks>Today, most robots are on automobile production lines

297
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.320
<v Rodney Brooks>and normal mortals shouldn't get close to them

298
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:22.080
<v Rodney Brooks>because they'll just slap them aside.

299
00:16:23.920 --> 00:16:26.600
<v Rodney Brooks>So normal people don't interact with them very much.

300
00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:29.820
<v Rodney Brooks>In 1978, computers were starting to be something

301
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:31.460
<v Rodney Brooks>that people were interested in.

302
00:16:31.580 --> 00:16:33.940
<v Rodney Brooks>There were starting to be a few hobbyist sort of computers,

303
00:16:34.060 --> 00:16:37.120
<v Rodney Brooks>the very first home computers,

304
00:16:37.260 --> 00:16:39.240
<v Rodney Brooks>which you really, really had to love,

305
00:16:39.980 --> 00:16:40.140
<v Rodney Brooks>and they were not for anyone to use.

306
00:16:40.420 --> 00:16:43.380
<v Rodney Brooks>They make windows look fantastic.

307
00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:49.560
<v Rodney Brooks>But then, over the next few years,

308
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:50.820
<v Rodney Brooks>computers got into our homes,

309
00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:53.820
<v Rodney Brooks>embedded computers in toys, in games,

310
00:16:54.020 --> 00:16:58.400
<v Rodney Brooks>and computers then got into our homes as individual units.

311
00:16:58.520 --> 00:17:00.240
<v Rodney Brooks>They were pretty hard to use early on,

312
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:01.500
<v Rodney Brooks>but because of Moore's Law,

313
00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:05.380
<v Rodney Brooks>the price has come down as well as performance has gone up,

314
00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:08.080
<v Rodney Brooks>and a few applications which no one foresaw,

315
00:17:08.080 --> 00:17:09.860
<v Rodney Brooks>no one foresaw that the World Wide Web

316
00:17:09.860 --> 00:17:12.000
<v Rodney Brooks>was really going to be something useful.

317
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.180
<v Rodney Brooks>There were a few visionaries like Ted Nelson

318
00:17:14.180 --> 00:17:15.680
<v Rodney Brooks>and earlier, Vannevar Bush,

319
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.500
<v Rodney Brooks>who had a few notions that there might be something like the Web,

320
00:17:18.580 --> 00:17:19.820
<v Rodney Brooks>but no one took them seriously.

321
00:17:20.040 --> 00:17:20.720
<v Rodney Brooks>They were crackpots.

322
00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:26.060
<v Rodney Brooks>So the Web and then email really, really took off,

323
00:17:26.120 --> 00:17:29.840
<v Rodney Brooks>and computers have become what they have,

324
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:31.220
<v Rodney Brooks>part of our everyday life.

325
00:17:31.360 --> 00:17:34.240
<v Rodney Brooks>I think you said a billion embedded processors a year?

326
00:17:34.820 --> 00:17:36.580
<v Rodney Brooks>Ten billion. Ten billion.

327
00:17:36.580 --> 00:17:39.040
<v Rodney Brooks>What's a factor of ten when you're talking about computers?

328
00:17:39.300 --> 00:17:41.660
<v Rodney Brooks>Ten billion embedded processors shipped per year.

329
00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:45.540
<v Rodney Brooks>So robots are in the same situation.

330
00:17:45.860 --> 00:17:48.340
<v Rodney Brooks>Robots are getting into our homes as simple toys.

331
00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:50.980
<v Rodney Brooks>There's a few home robots that you can buy.

332
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:55.120
<v Rodney Brooks>Robot lawnmowers.

333
00:17:55.300 --> 00:17:58.600
<v Rodney Brooks>A bunch of companies have announced robot cleaning,

334
00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.180
<v Rodney Brooks>cleaning robots for the home,

335
00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:02.180
<v Rodney Brooks>which will be out over the next year or two.

336
00:18:02.520 --> 00:18:03.860
<v Rodney Brooks>Like those early computers,

337
00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:05.660
<v Rodney Brooks>you'll probably really have to love them

338
00:18:06.580 --> 00:18:06.860
<v Rodney Brooks>and use them.

339
00:18:07.100 --> 00:18:08.640
<v Rodney Brooks>But I think over the next few years,

340
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:11.300
<v Rodney Brooks>we're going to see them more and more come into our homes,

341
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.020
<v Rodney Brooks>in the same way our homes now have lots of computers in them,

342
00:18:15.100 --> 00:18:17.040
<v Rodney Brooks>and probably even Robin's home does,

343
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:18.460
<v Rodney Brooks>even though he doesn't know about it.

344
00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:20.940
<v Rodney Brooks>They're hiding in his coffee maker, et cetera.

345
00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:26.920
<v Rodney Brooks>So robots in our homes are going to be more and more

346
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.040
<v Rodney Brooks>part of our daily life, actuation,

347
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.420
<v Rodney Brooks>and connected to the Internet.

348
00:18:32.020 --> 00:18:35.700
<v Rodney Brooks>So there's going to be a lot of virtual presence,

349
00:18:36.580 --> 00:18:37.320
<v Rodney Brooks>not just virtual reality,

350
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.700
<v Rodney Brooks>but virtual presence where you project yourself somewhere else

351
00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:42.580
<v Rodney Brooks>and can act in the world.

352
00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:44.840
<v Rodney Brooks>And that is starting to come along

353
00:18:44.840 --> 00:18:47.020
<v Rodney Brooks>in early business-to-business applications

354
00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:48.240
<v Rodney Brooks>for remote inspection.

355
00:18:48.520 --> 00:18:51.500
<v Rodney Brooks>But before too long, it may be the case that

356
00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:53.580
<v Rodney Brooks>you will have a robot in your home

357
00:18:53.580 --> 00:18:56.080
<v Rodney Brooks>that when you're at work, you can project yourself into,

358
00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:57.140
<v Rodney Brooks>go look in the refrigerator,

359
00:18:57.340 --> 00:19:00.620
<v Rodney Brooks>see what you need to buy on the way home for dinner.

360
00:19:00.840 --> 00:19:04.300
<v Rodney Brooks>Or have your repairman come

361
00:19:04.300 --> 00:19:08.220
<v Rodney Brooks>and project themselves into your home robot

362
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.300
<v Rodney Brooks>and do whatever repairs need to be done

363
00:19:10.300 --> 00:19:13.520
<v Rodney Brooks>to install a new telephone line or whatever.

364
00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:16.900
<v Rodney Brooks>So robots in the home are going to become more and more common.

365
00:19:17.380 --> 00:19:19.360
<v Rodney Brooks>But more than that,

366
00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.900
<v Rodney Brooks>robots in the body are going to become more and more common.

367
00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:28.320
<v Rodney Brooks>We're just starting to see the thin edge of the wedge come in now,

368
00:19:28.420 --> 00:19:32.080
<v Rodney Brooks>where technology is coming into our bodies,

369
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.280
<v Rodney Brooks>first with things like cochlear implants,

370
00:19:34.300 --> 00:19:37.240
<v Rodney Brooks>where tens of thousands of people have electronics

371
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:39.020
<v Rodney Brooks>directly connected to their neurons.

372
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:42.980
<v Rodney Brooks>Retinal implants for people who have macular degeneration

373
00:19:42.980 --> 00:19:45.780
<v Rodney Brooks>are not quite at the clinical level yet,

374
00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:46.800
<v Rodney Brooks>but there are certainly trials.

375
00:19:47.040 --> 00:19:51.340
<v Rodney Brooks>And lots of other invasions into our body

376
00:19:51.340 --> 00:19:55.940
<v Rodney Brooks>of silicon and steel technology to repair damage.

377
00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:00.160
<v Rodney Brooks>As that technology, over the next five to ten years,

378
00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:02.780
<v Rodney Brooks>becomes more and more robust,

379
00:20:02.780 --> 00:20:07.680
<v Rodney Brooks>people will start to request augmentations of their bodies.

380
00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:09.780
<v Rodney Brooks>So I think it's fairly likely...

381
00:20:10.520 --> 00:20:11.280
<v Rodney Brooks>You know, in the same way,

382
00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:15.100
<v Rodney Brooks>20 years ago, it was really not normal

383
00:20:15.100 --> 00:20:17.440
<v Rodney Brooks>for a male to have a pierced ear.

384
00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:21.160
<v Rodney Brooks>20 years from now, I think it will be quite normal

385
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.240
<v Rodney Brooks>for people to have silicon implants in their body

386
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:26.260
<v Rodney Brooks>for various reasons,

387
00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:29.440
<v Rodney Brooks>if only to monitor their blood sugar level,

388
00:20:29.580 --> 00:20:30.800
<v Rodney Brooks>their temperature, et cetera,

389
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:32.680
<v Rodney Brooks>and be able to download a continuous

390
00:20:32.780 --> 00:20:35.480
<v Rodney Brooks>record of their internal health

391
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:37.040
<v Rodney Brooks>for the use of their doctors.

392
00:20:37.220 --> 00:20:40.360
<v Rodney Brooks>But more likely, I think, as we get 20 years out,

393
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:45.300
<v Rodney Brooks>we will have Internet connections inside our heads.

394
00:20:46.100 --> 00:20:48.240
<v Rodney Brooks>We'll never be able to get away from our email.

395
00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:51.760
<v Rodney Brooks>Every technology has its downside.

396
00:20:53.560 --> 00:20:56.020
<v Rodney Brooks>But it's really going to change the way we operate.

397
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:01.600
<v Rodney Brooks>While I'm sitting listening to Bob give his talk,

398
00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:02.640
<v Rodney Brooks>and he's talking about...

399
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.680
<v Rodney Brooks>I don't know how you are,

400
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.500
<v Rodney Brooks>I could be scanning the web

401
00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:07.560
<v Rodney Brooks>and pulling up some more details

402
00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:08.900
<v Rodney Brooks>and come up here and trump him

403
00:21:08.900 --> 00:21:12.280
<v Rodney Brooks>on exactly where the word robot came from.

404
00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:15.720
<v Rodney Brooks>While we're having discussions with someone negotiating,

405
00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:18.360
<v Rodney Brooks>you know, in a corporate setting,

406
00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:21.000
<v Rodney Brooks>we'll be instant messaging our boss back home

407
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.200
<v Rodney Brooks>and saying, really, can I...

408
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:23.340
<v Rodney Brooks>How hard should I push?

409
00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:25.740
<v Rodney Brooks>What level should I change this deal?

410
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.640
<v Rodney Brooks>And we'll be more than just straightforward people

411
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.780
<v Rodney Brooks>in the way we think of ourselves now.

412
00:21:30.780 --> 00:21:35.160
<v Rodney Brooks>So, as Bob said, it's impossible to predict out 100 years,

413
00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:38.940
<v Rodney Brooks>so I try and sort of waffle around the next 20 to 50 years

414
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:40.100
<v Rodney Brooks>of what might be happening.

415
00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:43.400
<v Rodney Brooks>Silicon and steel coming into our bodies

416
00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:44.920
<v Rodney Brooks>is going to change us dramatically.

417
00:21:45.260 --> 00:21:46.620
<v Rodney Brooks>But at the same time,

418
00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.560
<v Rodney Brooks>the biotechnology that we see today

419
00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:53.620
<v Rodney Brooks>will start to look incredibly, incredibly primitive.

420
00:21:54.800 --> 00:21:57.520
<v Rodney Brooks>We've had 50 years of development of analytic tools

421
00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.260
<v Rodney Brooks>to understand molecular biology,

422
00:21:59.380 --> 00:22:00.760
<v Rodney Brooks>and now that's starting to get into the hands of the world.

423
00:22:00.780 --> 00:22:01.800
<v Rodney Brooks>It's getting into the hands of engineers.

424
00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:07.400
<v Rodney Brooks>So engineers are now starting to apply molecular biology tools

425
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.960
<v Rodney Brooks>to engineer living systems to be different from what they were.

426
00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:14.400
<v Rodney Brooks>So already we see, for instance,

427
00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:16.700
<v Rodney Brooks>in some of the people in my lab,

428
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.720
<v Rodney Brooks>compiling simple digital programs down into DNA,

429
00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:27.900
<v Rodney Brooks>splicing that into the genome of E. coli,

430
00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.760
<v Rodney Brooks>producing 10 to the 12th E. coli

431
00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:32.820
<v Rodney Brooks>with this program embedded in their DNA,

432
00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:35.620
<v Rodney Brooks>such that when the transcription mechanism reads it off,

433
00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:37.460
<v Rodney Brooks>it carries out a digital computation.

434
00:22:37.840 --> 00:22:39.620
<v Rodney Brooks>And by sending lactone molecules,

435
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.520
<v Rodney Brooks>we can communicate with these little tiny living robots

436
00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:46.840
<v Rodney Brooks>and digitally control some of their internal processes.

437
00:22:48.580 --> 00:22:51.420
<v Rodney Brooks>This is early days yet,

438
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.020
<v Rodney Brooks>but as we move out to 20 to 30 years from now,

439
00:22:54.100 --> 00:22:55.820
<v Rodney Brooks>the ability to have digital control

440
00:22:55.820 --> 00:22:57.840
<v Rodney Brooks>over the internal processes of cells

441
00:22:58.520 --> 00:23:00.760
<v Rodney Brooks>will lead us to completely change

442
00:23:00.780 --> 00:23:02.440
<v Rodney Brooks>our manufacturing infrastructure,

443
00:23:02.840 --> 00:23:05.500
<v Rodney Brooks>in the same way our manufacturing infrastructure today

444
00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:08.900
<v Rodney Brooks>is totally different from what it was 50 years ago.

445
00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:11.440
<v Rodney Brooks>And any tape recorder built today

446
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:13.820
<v Rodney Brooks>has very different materials in it

447
00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:16.960
<v Rodney Brooks>compared to the ones in the 1972 tape recorder

448
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.260
<v Rodney Brooks>that Robin has there.

449
00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:21.220
<v Rodney Brooks>50 years from now, our manufacturing infrastructure

450
00:23:21.780 --> 00:23:24.760
<v Rodney Brooks>will largely be biologically based, I predict.

451
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:27.700
<v Rodney Brooks>And instead of growing trees,

452
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.760
<v Rodney Brooks>cutting them down and building this beautiful world,

453
00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:31.780
<v Rodney Brooks>we will not be doing woodwork in this building,

454
00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:35.500
<v Rodney Brooks>we will just grow this building more directly

455
00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:37.460
<v Rodney Brooks>through digital control over the cells.

456
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:40.400
<v Rodney Brooks>And by that time then,

457
00:23:40.540 --> 00:23:42.800
<v Rodney Brooks>our industrial infrastructure

458
00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:47.840
<v Rodney Brooks>will be the same material as us, our bodies.

459
00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:52.640
<v Rodney Brooks>We'll already be doing lots of body modifications

460
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:54.160
<v Rodney Brooks>with silicon and steel.

461
00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.480
<v Rodney Brooks>Now we'll start to do body modifications

462
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.580
<v Rodney Brooks>using the biological techniques.

463
00:24:00.780 --> 00:24:04.220
<v Rodney Brooks>The manipulation down the genomic level of our bodies,

464
00:24:04.340 --> 00:24:06.320
<v Rodney Brooks>I think, will become quite common

465
00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:07.880
<v Rodney Brooks>50 years out from now.

466
00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:09.820
<v Rodney Brooks>And what we are as a species

467
00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:11.940
<v Rodney Brooks>will change rather drastically,

468
00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.400
<v Rodney Brooks>because we will no longer be restricted

469
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.180
<v Rodney Brooks>to modifications to our genome

470
00:24:16.180 --> 00:24:18.860
<v Rodney Brooks>that occur randomly and have Darwinian selection,

471
00:24:19.080 --> 00:24:22.760
<v Rodney Brooks>but we have an external ability

472
00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:25.660
<v Rodney Brooks>to manipulate that genome.

473
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.680
<v Rodney Brooks>And of course, this is going to be...

474
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.440
<v Rodney Brooks>make any ethical debates we've had

475
00:24:30.780 --> 00:24:31.580
<v Rodney Brooks>so far look trivial.

476
00:24:31.860 --> 00:24:34.120
<v Rodney Brooks>I mean, we already see the ethical debates

477
00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:35.820
<v Rodney Brooks>just over genetically modified food,

478
00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:39.000
<v Rodney Brooks>but that's just a tiny, tiny, tiny piece

479
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.980
<v Rodney Brooks>of the issues we're going to have to face

480
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:42.680
<v Rodney Brooks>over the next 50 years,

481
00:24:42.800 --> 00:24:48.020
<v Rodney Brooks>as we go from what technology has...

482
00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:49.740
<v Rodney Brooks>which has been separate from us

483
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:51.400
<v Rodney Brooks>becomes the same as us,

484
00:24:51.500 --> 00:24:54.060
<v Rodney Brooks>and our technology becomes living machines.

485
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:57.600
<v Rodney Brooks>And so I don't think we have to think 100 years out,

486
00:24:58.220 --> 00:24:59.880
<v Rodney Brooks>which we can't possibly predict.

487
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:01.940
<v Rodney Brooks>I think in the next 50 years,

488
00:25:02.060 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Rodney Brooks>the level of technology

489
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:09.100
<v Rodney Brooks>and the level of moral decisions we have to make

490
00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:14.320
<v Rodney Brooks>are going to be quite large in scale

491
00:25:14.320 --> 00:25:16.260
<v Rodney Brooks>compared to what we've had to make before

492
00:25:16.260 --> 00:25:18.680
<v Rodney Brooks>because of the increasing pace of technology,

493
00:25:18.940 --> 00:25:20.720
<v Rodney Brooks>because there's a geometrical process,

494
00:25:20.780 --> 00:25:22.240
<v Rodney Brooks>as Bob pointed out.

495
00:25:22.840 --> 00:25:25.480
<v Rodney Brooks>Half of all scientists and technologists

496
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:27.460
<v Rodney Brooks>that have ever lived are alive today,

497
00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:29.680
<v Rodney Brooks>and that's been true for the last 500 years.

498
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.480
<v Rodney Brooks>We're on this geometric progression

499
00:25:32.140 --> 00:25:33.820
<v Rodney Brooks>of the amount of science and technology,

500
00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:36.640
<v Rodney Brooks>and that's why it seems to us to be going so fast.

501
00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:38.180
<v Rodney Brooks>It is going so fast.

502
00:25:38.860 --> 00:25:41.160
<v Rodney Brooks>And with that, I'll hand it over to Robin.

503
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:50.120
<v Robyn Williams>Thank you very much, Rodney Brooks

504
00:25:50.120 --> 00:25:52.160
<v Robyn Williams>from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

505
00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:54.840
<v Robyn Williams>Talking about bodily augmentation,

506
00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:57.080
<v Robyn Williams>I think you know my namesake once said

507
00:25:57.080 --> 00:25:58.860
<v Robyn Williams>that God gave us a penis and a brain,

508
00:25:58.860 --> 00:26:00.980
<v Robyn Williams>but only enough blood to run one at a time.

509
00:26:02.600 --> 00:26:06.020
<v Robyn Williams>If technology could help there with maybe transistors

510
00:26:06.020 --> 00:26:07.200
<v Robyn Williams>or whatever you use, that would be fantastic.

511
00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:08.920
<v Robyn Williams>Now, I work for the ABC,

512
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.960
<v Robyn Williams>which is the Australian Business Corporation, as you know,

513
00:26:12.060 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Robyn Williams>and I broadcast...

514
00:26:17.860 --> 00:26:21.300
<v Robyn Williams>..a programme to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Science Show

515
00:26:21.300 --> 00:26:24.200
<v Robyn Williams>in which I announced a number of revolutionary technologies,

516
00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:26.800
<v Robyn Williams>ones which were somewhat surprising.

517
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:28.840
<v Robyn Williams>And one was the giant,

518
00:26:28.860 --> 00:26:30.080
<v Robyn Williams>genetically modified computer,

519
00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:33.340
<v Robyn Williams>which was discovered with all sorts of tendrils and shoots

520
00:26:33.340 --> 00:26:36.280
<v Robyn Williams>growing out of it in a certain place.

521
00:26:36.780 --> 00:26:38.180
<v Robyn Williams>And then the one next to it

522
00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:41.760
<v Robyn Williams>also had a weed growth of these leaves coming out.

523
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.340
<v Robyn Williams>And as a result of this weed infection,

524
00:26:44.540 --> 00:26:46.620
<v Robyn Williams>it turned out, of course, you couldn't use it very well

525
00:26:46.620 --> 00:26:48.160
<v Robyn Williams>until the Waite Institute,

526
00:26:48.260 --> 00:26:50.220
<v Robyn Williams>in conjunction with Monsanto South Australia,

527
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.720
<v Robyn Williams>found that if you sprayed it with Roundup...

528
00:26:55.460 --> 00:26:58.840
<v Robyn Williams>..and, of course, the organisation developed the only Roundup,

529
00:26:58.860 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Robyn Williams>resistant computers,

530
00:27:01.020 --> 00:27:03.280
<v Robyn Williams>which are now on sale in the tent outside.

531
00:27:04.700 --> 00:27:07.100
<v Robyn Williams>And then the other announcement,

532
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:08.720
<v Robyn Williams>which I was rather fond of, was,

533
00:27:08.760 --> 00:27:10.620
<v Robyn Williams>you know how when you're tapping at the computer,

534
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.440
<v Robyn Williams>which I don't necessarily,

535
00:27:12.540 --> 00:27:14.740
<v Robyn Williams>the cat jumps up to help

536
00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:16.560
<v Robyn Williams>and walks across the keyboard?

537
00:27:18.060 --> 00:27:19.940
<v Robyn Williams>Well, it turns out,

538
00:27:20.080 --> 00:27:22.560
<v Robyn Williams>and biologists have discovered this in America, where else,

539
00:27:22.620 --> 00:27:26.800
<v Robyn Williams>that viruses leap out from the computer onto the cat's fur,

540
00:27:27.100 --> 00:27:28.560
<v Robyn Williams>which, when it grooms,

541
00:27:28.560 --> 00:27:31.140
<v Robyn Williams>goes into the cat and becomes hardwired.

542
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:35.420
<v Robyn Williams>And you notice that when the cat actually asks you

543
00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:36.480
<v Robyn Williams>to download its dinner.

544
00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:40.300
<v Robyn Williams>There is a way of solving this.

545
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.180
<v Robyn Williams>You need to have a feline-compatible mouse.

546
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.360
<v Robyn Williams>Which is available from PussyTech in Unley.

547
00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:53.480
<v Robyn Williams>Another one which we announced

548
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.560
<v Robyn Williams>was actually launched, surprisingly,

549
00:27:56.820 --> 00:27:58.540
<v Robyn Williams>at the Adelaide Convention Center,

550
00:27:58.560 --> 00:28:01.460
<v Robyn Williams>when Daniel Barenboim was conducting the Mahler Second

551
00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.480
<v Robyn Williams>with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.

552
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.600
<v Robyn Williams>Many, I think, from here were there.

553
00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:10.740
<v Robyn Williams>And during one of the few quiet bits between, you know, crescendos,

554
00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:13.320
<v Robyn Williams>another mobile phone went off,

555
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Robyn Williams>and Barenboim shut down the orchestra,

556
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:16.000
<v Robyn Williams>came down the stage,

557
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:18.380
<v Robyn Williams>went to the businessman who was busily talking away,

558
00:28:18.560 --> 00:28:21.300
<v Robyn Williams>and took his rather slimline phone

559
00:28:21.940 --> 00:28:24.020
<v Robyn Williams>and put it where it doesn't normally go.

560
00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:26.760
<v Robyn Williams>And the amazing thing was,

561
00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:27.560
<v Robyn Williams>and this was a breakthrough,

562
00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:29.880
<v Robyn Williams>the businessman continued talking.

563
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:34.060
<v Robyn Williams>Which is how the rectophone was invented.

564
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:41.540
<v Robyn Williams>And it is now being developed by Procto-Telco Australia.

565
00:28:42.940 --> 00:28:46.120
<v Robyn Williams>And you can get it in a pre-greased form outside as well.

566
00:28:46.360 --> 00:28:48.760
<v Robyn Williams>Now, there are a whole number of technologies

567
00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:51.180
<v Robyn Williams>which I think are terribly exciting in all sorts of ways,

568
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.360
<v Robyn Williams>but there are ones which make me awfully cross.

569
00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:56.560
<v Robyn Williams>And the reason I'm cross about these technologies

570
00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:01.020
<v Robyn Williams>is that when I ask them to do their stuff,

571
00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:03.880
<v Robyn Williams>they're too stupid to do that.

572
00:29:04.020 --> 00:29:08.320
<v Robyn Williams>In fact, Marvin Minsky, Rodney, you'll remember from your own place, MIT,

573
00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.860
<v Robyn Williams>has talked about this era being the stupid part

574
00:29:11.860 --> 00:29:13.340
<v Robyn Williams>of the technological revolution.

575
00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:16.120
<v Robyn Williams>And, for instance, one day when I went into work

576
00:29:16.120 --> 00:29:17.560
<v Robyn Williams>at the Australian Business Corporation,

577
00:29:18.100 --> 00:29:21.400
<v Robyn Williams>there was one of our programmes, Earthbeats, starting on Saturday,

578
00:29:21.560 --> 00:29:22.760
<v Robyn Williams>in fact, this very day.

579
00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:26.680
<v Robyn Williams>And it was about the fact that,

580
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:31.600
<v Robyn Williams>7.31, and I heard the programme, it was last week's,

581
00:29:32.780 --> 00:29:34.540
<v Robyn Williams>because in the Australian Business Corporation

582
00:29:34.540 --> 00:29:38.080
<v Robyn Williams>we actually have Radio National run by computer during the weekend

583
00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:39.000
<v Robyn Williams>because you don't have to have staff.

584
00:29:39.800 --> 00:29:43.840
<v Robyn Williams>And so I walked up and down the corridor and there's nobody there.

585
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.060
<v Robyn Williams>I went downstairs, Mission Control, or in fact they call it

586
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:48.900
<v Robyn Williams>something slightly different,

587
00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:50.740
<v Robyn Williams>where a person is in charge of all the networks.

588
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.460
<v Robyn Williams>And I opened the door and he said,

589
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:53.420
<v Robyn Williams>I know what you're worried about.

590
00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Robyn Williams>And I said, well, it's now been on for two minutes.

591
00:29:56.760 --> 00:29:58.000
<v Robyn Williams>You could tell it was the wrong programme

592
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Robyn Williams>because it was an analysis for the budget,

593
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:00.720
<v Robyn Williams>which was two weeks before.

594
00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:03.760
<v Robyn Williams>I said, well, take it off. He said, it's in the computer.

595
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:05.380
<v Robyn Williams>I said, I don't care, take it off.

596
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:07.940
<v Robyn Williams>You've got 28 minutes to change the programme, put the right one on.

597
00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:09.100
<v Robyn Williams>He said, we can't, it's in the computer.

598
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.140
<v Robyn Williams>And I said, is the computer as daft as that?

599
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:17.140
<v Robyn Williams>You can't actually solve the problem?

600
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:17.580
<v Robyn Williams>He said, no.

601
00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Robyn Williams>And two weeks later, when the science show with 48 minutes to change it,

602
00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:29.000
<v Robyn Williams>was on wrongly, two weeks ago, the rebroadcast, in error.

603
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.380
<v Robyn Williams>They couldn't fix that either.

604
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.040
<v Robyn Williams>Another thing that worries me is when I eventually had to have email,

605
00:30:39.780 --> 00:30:43.160
<v Robyn Williams>I said, look, I'm messaged to death.

606
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.780
<v Robyn Williams>Even wonderful messages, you've won two million bucks.

607
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.560
<v Robyn Williams>I'm too busy actually to take it.

608
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:52.460
<v Robyn Williams>I don't need all these messages, but they insisted,

609
00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:53.640
<v Robyn Williams>and they gave me the formula.

610
00:30:54.840 --> 00:30:58.260
<v Robyn Williams>And people started to ring up saying, why haven't you replied to your email?

611
00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:02.200
<v Robyn Williams>One of them was from BBC in Birmingham.

612
00:31:03.020 --> 00:31:05.080
<v Robyn Williams>And they said, we're trying to get in touch with you

613
00:31:05.080 --> 00:31:08.700
<v Robyn Williams>to help do a documentary about Mark Oliphant,

614
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:09.620
<v Robyn Williams>whose portrait's over there.

615
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:11.320
<v Robyn Williams>And I said, well, I never got it.

616
00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:13.820
<v Robyn Williams>It turned out they're all going to this other Robin Williams,

617
00:31:15.540 --> 00:31:18.600
<v Robyn Williams>who's, if you saw The Farm, that was one of the last pieces of work she did.

618
00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:21.460
<v Robyn Williams>She's in design, or she was until she,

619
00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:24.800
<v Robyn Williams>in a great ABC tradition, took a redundancy last week.

620
00:31:26.180 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Robyn Williams>So she was getting all my stuff and not forwarding it.

621
00:31:29.080 --> 00:31:31.940
<v Robyn Williams>And for 18 months I was asking them to solve the problem,

622
00:31:32.020 --> 00:31:33.120
<v Robyn Williams>and they couldn't. They haven't.

623
00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:36.420
<v Robyn Williams>She's now left, and now it's a black hole with all these messages going in.

624
00:31:39.060 --> 00:31:41.240
<v Robyn Williams>And also there's a fashion in dead technology.

625
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.040
<v Robyn Williams>If you look along the corridors of the ABC,

626
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:45.580
<v Robyn Williams>of any other corporation in Australia,

627
00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Robyn Williams>you'll find dead technology lined up as it falls out of fashion after nine months.

628
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.540
<v Robyn Williams>However, I'm very much for technology.

629
00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:56.100
<v Robyn Williams>As long as you've worked out where you're going with this.

630
00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:00.000
<v Robyn Williams>Now, I know you all, I completely agree with the revolutions you talk about.

631
00:32:00.760 --> 00:32:03.980
<v Robyn Williams>Bob and Sir Peter Hall from London University

632
00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Robyn Williams>has written about a 50-year cycle,

633
00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:07.720
<v Robyn Williams>which Schumpeter has also described,

634
00:32:07.780 --> 00:32:11.900
<v Robyn Williams>about how transport technology and communication technology come together

635
00:32:11.900 --> 00:32:15.060
<v Robyn Williams>and create a revolution every 50 years.

636
00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Robyn Williams>I've written about it in some silly book that's outside in the tent,

637
00:32:17.780 --> 00:32:18.820
<v Robyn Williams>for real, for once.

638
00:32:18.820 --> 00:32:22.880
<v Robyn Williams>And I find it very interesting that this is going on.

639
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.360
<v Robyn Williams>But when I want technology,

640
00:32:25.840 --> 00:32:27.340
<v Robyn Williams>some of the things we've chosen,

641
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:28.920
<v Robyn Williams>I mean, things like this,

642
00:32:28.940 --> 00:32:29.520
<v Robyn Williams>I've been walking around,

643
00:32:29.600 --> 00:32:32.980
<v Robyn Williams>that's just a little thing that you put on

644
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:35.320
<v Robyn Williams>when you're running up and down the river,

645
00:32:36.040 --> 00:32:37.920
<v Robyn Williams>and you might find running boring,

646
00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:41.080
<v Robyn Williams>you put a radio station on.

647
00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:42.980
<v Robyn Williams>Or if you're in a taxi,

648
00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:45.580
<v Robyn Williams>taxi radios are hardwired to John Laws.

649
00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:47.600
<v Robyn Williams>And you can put that on.

650
00:32:47.600 --> 00:32:49.220
<v Robyn Williams>And when you're cleaning out the shed.

651
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.140
<v Robyn Williams>Similarly, well, robots, yes, in the body.

652
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Robyn Williams>I've got one here, as Philip Adams told everybody the other night.

653
00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:00.660
<v Robyn Williams>I died a few times in May 1998.

654
00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:02.020
<v Robyn Williams>So they put this pacemaker in.

655
00:33:02.040 --> 00:33:02.820
<v Robyn Williams>They can't get it out.

656
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:06.080
<v Robyn Williams>But if I fall on the floor dead,

657
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:07.600
<v Robyn Williams>it makes me twitch and get up again.

658
00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Robyn Williams>So I'm this walking cadaver.

659
00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:11.640
<v Robyn Williams>But they really can't take it out.

660
00:33:11.660 --> 00:33:12.160
<v Robyn Williams>It's extraordinary.

661
00:33:12.560 --> 00:33:13.720
<v Robyn Williams>I'm not sure what it does.

662
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.340
<v Robyn Williams>I'm very much for broadcasting to have a multiplier,

663
00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:20.760
<v Robyn Williams>and I'm very much for having bits and pieces of broadcasting,

664
00:33:20.980 --> 00:33:21.800
<v Robyn Williams>but not randomly,

665
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:24.360
<v Robyn Williams>so that you have one minute on Triple J,

666
00:33:24.540 --> 00:33:26.300
<v Robyn Williams>you might have five minutes on local radio,

667
00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:28.620
<v Robyn Williams>you might have 15 minutes on ours,

668
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:32.060
<v Robyn Williams>and then you get the whole broadcast on the net.

669
00:33:32.600 --> 00:33:34.420
<v Robyn Williams>And then that leads to the book.

670
00:33:34.520 --> 00:33:35.780
<v Robyn Williams>That's called the multiplier effect,

671
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.320
<v Robyn Williams>connecting things so that they make sense

672
00:33:38.320 --> 00:33:39.360
<v Robyn Williams>and get more of them.

673
00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:44.000
<v Robyn Williams>And one of the other things that we pushed for in the new technology

674
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:46.540
<v Robyn Williams>was this question of broadcast time,

675
00:33:46.540 --> 00:33:48.360
<v Robyn Williams>remembering when a program's on.

676
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:49.340
<v Robyn Williams>People don't do that anymore.

677
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:50.100
<v Robyn Williams>Why should they?

678
00:33:50.300 --> 00:33:52.180
<v Robyn Williams>You should be able to choose your programs

679
00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:53.860
<v Robyn Williams>when you want them for your convenience.

680
00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:57.300
<v Robyn Williams>So when I last interviewed John Howard,

681
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:59.620
<v Robyn Williams>I was able to tell him that the broadcast was going to be

682
00:33:59.620 --> 00:34:01.700
<v Robyn Williams>on around the world through the net,

683
00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:04.420
<v Robyn Williams>anywhere where you could get the internet.

684
00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:05.880
<v Robyn Williams>And he was very surprised.

685
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:06.980
<v Robyn Williams>I said, you shouldn't be surprised.

686
00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:07.700
<v Robyn Williams>You paid for it.

687
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:12.720
<v Robyn Williams>We wangled the money out when he was not looking five years ago.

688
00:34:13.720 --> 00:34:15.900
<v Robyn Williams>So there are a whole lot of technologies,

689
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:17.200
<v Robyn Williams>which I think are very interesting.

690
00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:19.520
<v Robyn Williams>The final one I'll mention is the catalytic converter.

691
00:34:20.260 --> 00:34:24.320
<v Robyn Williams>Now, okay, China has just got the Olympics,

692
00:34:24.580 --> 00:34:27.240
<v Robyn Williams>but if you look at the worst polluted,

693
00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:29.080
<v Robyn Williams>air polluted cities in the world,

694
00:34:29.140 --> 00:34:31.380
<v Robyn Williams>nine of them out of ten are in China.

695
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.680
<v Robyn Williams>One of them is in India.

696
00:34:33.120 --> 00:34:36.220
<v Robyn Williams>And pollution is so bad that it kills more babies

697
00:34:36.220 --> 00:34:38.820
<v Robyn Williams>than gastroenteritis, which used to be the major killer.

698
00:34:39.580 --> 00:34:43.680
<v Robyn Williams>And one of the huge problems is that the muck comes out of vehicles.

699
00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:48.560
<v Robyn Williams>And if you police those, and you can do that all through Asia,

700
00:34:48.680 --> 00:34:50.600
<v Robyn Williams>you police them, you tell people off,

701
00:34:50.620 --> 00:34:52.240
<v Robyn Williams>and you say you must get a new catalytic converter,

702
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:53.420
<v Robyn Williams>which costs 300 bucks.

703
00:34:54.060 --> 00:34:58.140
<v Robyn Williams>The choice otherwise is to bribe the policeman with 20 bucks.

704
00:34:58.340 --> 00:34:59.080
<v Robyn Williams>Guess what they do?

705
00:34:59.660 --> 00:35:03.480
<v Robyn Williams>So now, working in RMIT and Puna,

706
00:35:03.680 --> 00:35:07.020
<v Robyn Williams>they've invented a catalytic converter that lasts twice as long.

707
00:35:07.520 --> 00:35:09.580
<v Robyn Williams>This, I think, is brilliant technology.

708
00:35:09.660 --> 00:35:12.780
<v Robyn Williams>And that's the connection we could have with our region,

709
00:35:12.820 --> 00:35:13.660
<v Robyn Williams>which has got some of the biggest problems.

710
00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:14.820
<v Robyn Williams>It's got the biggest populations in the world.

711
00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:17.040
<v Robyn Williams>So it's a revolution,

712
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.540
<v Robyn Williams>not that it is sort of dictated by the cargo culture technology.

713
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.060
<v Robyn Williams>Doing! Something else has landed.

714
00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:26.340
<v Robyn Williams>Put it somewhere in the corridor.

715
00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:28.720
<v Robyn Williams>Put it somewhere in your body.

716
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.340
<v Robyn Williams>Now, what do we want to do with it, perhaps?

717
00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:35.320
<v Robyn Williams>That is the thing about which I am cogitating,

718
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.340
<v Robyn Williams>especially with technology I like.

719
00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:40.300
<v Robyn Williams>And the final sort of technology I like

720
00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:42.940
<v Robyn Williams>is the plane that's booked at about half past four,

721
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:43.660
<v Robyn Williams>which is why I'm going to be there.

722
00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:45.120
<v Robyn Williams>I'm going to have to leave the stage slightly early,

723
00:35:45.180 --> 00:35:46.240
<v Robyn Williams>and I apologise in advance.

724
00:35:46.580 --> 00:35:49.240
<v Robyn Williams>And our next speaker is Margaret Wertheim,

725
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:50.400
<v Robyn Williams>one of my heroines,

726
00:35:51.240 --> 00:35:55.000
<v Robyn Williams>who has written Pythagoras's Trousers

727
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Robyn Williams>and the Pearly Gates of Cyberspace.

728
00:35:57.740 --> 00:35:59.960
<v Robyn Williams>Would you please welcome Margaret Wertheim?

729
00:36:09.160 --> 00:36:12.120
<v Speaker 4>Well, when I was asked to be on this panel,

730
00:36:12.120 --> 00:36:14.440
<v Speaker 4>I was very honoured to be in this company,

731
00:36:14.540 --> 00:36:17.140
<v Speaker 4>but I didn't quite know what I would talk about

732
00:36:17.140 --> 00:36:18.880
<v Speaker 4>because I don't actually work in the...

733
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.360
<v Speaker 4>Unlike Rodney and Bob,

734
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.680
<v Speaker 4>I don't actually work in the area of technology at all.

735
00:36:24.660 --> 00:36:27.100
<v Speaker 4>What I write about is the history of science.

736
00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:29.820
<v Speaker 4>And so I sort of thought that I'd go off

737
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:32.380
<v Speaker 4>in a bit of a tangential direction with this,

738
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.220
<v Speaker 4>but a subject that deeply interests me

739
00:36:35.220 --> 00:36:36.620
<v Speaker 4>and which I think is very relevant

740
00:36:37.100 --> 00:36:41.120
<v Speaker 4>to the whole discussion about where technology is taking us.

741
00:36:41.120 --> 00:36:43.840
<v Speaker 4>But I don't want to talk about the technology per se,

742
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:47.160
<v Speaker 4>but the psychological effects that it has

743
00:36:47.160 --> 00:36:49.980
<v Speaker 4>on our experience of daily life.

744
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.880
<v Speaker 4>We live, since the 16th century,

745
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:55.540
<v Speaker 4>with the invention of the printing press.

746
00:36:55.780 --> 00:36:59.380
<v Speaker 4>We've lived in a society that has gradually had

747
00:36:59.380 --> 00:37:01.880
<v Speaker 4>more and more forms of...

748
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:04.260
<v Speaker 4>..ways of disseminating information,

749
00:37:04.620 --> 00:37:06.280
<v Speaker 4>and not just information,

750
00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:09.860
<v Speaker 4>but all forms of what we now call media.

751
00:37:10.020 --> 00:37:11.100
<v Speaker 4>So, first of all,

752
00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:13.640
<v Speaker 4>we had the printing press, which could simply print text.

753
00:37:13.720 --> 00:37:16.260
<v Speaker 4>Then we developed the technologies of printing images.

754
00:37:16.540 --> 00:37:17.840
<v Speaker 4>Then, of course, there was photography

755
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:19.940
<v Speaker 4>and reproduction of those kind of imagery.

756
00:37:20.240 --> 00:37:22.360
<v Speaker 4>Then we have radio and television.

757
00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:24.400
<v Speaker 4>We have various forms of...

758
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:25.940
<v Speaker 4>Now we're going to get digital television.

759
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:29.580
<v Speaker 4>500 channels are promised to us any second now.

760
00:37:29.740 --> 00:37:30.680
<v Speaker 4>And then, of course,

761
00:37:30.740 --> 00:37:32.600
<v Speaker 4>we've got the whole development of the internet

762
00:37:33.120 --> 00:37:35.880
<v Speaker 4>and the many different forms of media and communications

763
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.220
<v Speaker 4>that are possible via the net,

764
00:37:38.300 --> 00:37:41.020
<v Speaker 4>whether it's accessing data on vast databases,

765
00:37:41.020 --> 00:37:45.220
<v Speaker 4>or simply accessing a vast number of databases all over the world,

766
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.440
<v Speaker 4>or whether it's going into virtual worlds,

767
00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:49.180
<v Speaker 4>some of which are text-based,

768
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.920
<v Speaker 4>but some, as Bob said,

769
00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:53.540
<v Speaker 4>will be increasingly like the virtual reality

770
00:37:53.540 --> 00:37:57.500
<v Speaker 4>that the cyber-fiction writers such as William Gibson have envisaged.

771
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:02.140
<v Speaker 4>And all of this is extremely marvellous in many ways.

772
00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:07.460
<v Speaker 4>The access to data, to imagery, to all forms of media,

773
00:38:07.660 --> 00:38:09.760
<v Speaker 4>I think, has radically transformed

774
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:14.300
<v Speaker 4>the experience that we all have in our day-to-day lives.

775
00:38:14.780 --> 00:38:17.760
<v Speaker 4>Certainly, I could not be doing what I currently do

776
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:19.940
<v Speaker 4>without access to this media.

777
00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:23.040
<v Speaker 4>I use the net all the time for research

778
00:38:23.040 --> 00:38:25.440
<v Speaker 4>as a writer and journalist,

779
00:38:25.680 --> 00:38:27.840
<v Speaker 4>and it's an absolutely marvellous tool,

780
00:38:27.940 --> 00:38:31.640
<v Speaker 4>and I now can't imagine how I ever survived without it.

781
00:38:32.560 --> 00:38:34.260
<v Speaker 4>But there is a very interesting question

782
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:36.840
<v Speaker 4>raised by the emergence of all of this media,

783
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:38.140
<v Speaker 4>and I think, as Bob says,

784
00:38:38.140 --> 00:38:41.980
<v Speaker 4>the degree to which all this is going to accelerate.

785
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:46.060
<v Speaker 4>And that is that with access to so much media

786
00:38:46.060 --> 00:38:49.080
<v Speaker 4>of so many forms and so much data,

787
00:38:49.200 --> 00:38:51.620
<v Speaker 4>that each of us becomes, in a sense,

788
00:38:51.640 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 4>able to chart our own course through this,

789
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.540
<v Speaker 4>both in an educational and entertainment sense.

790
00:38:59.120 --> 00:39:03.380
<v Speaker 4>And I think one of the things that we can already see happening around us

791
00:39:03.380 --> 00:39:06.880
<v Speaker 4>and which I suspect will continue to accelerate

792
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.060
<v Speaker 4>is that,

793
00:39:08.140 --> 00:39:10.080
<v Speaker 4>as we're growing up and as adults,

794
00:39:10.120 --> 00:39:12.700
<v Speaker 4>as we continue through this vast media landscape,

795
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:17.940
<v Speaker 4>our individual experiences will become more and more individual.

796
00:39:19.080 --> 00:39:22.300
<v Speaker 4>Because there is so many different paths you could go down

797
00:39:22.300 --> 00:39:23.900
<v Speaker 4>in terms of what interests you,

798
00:39:24.040 --> 00:39:27.080
<v Speaker 4>what are your particular desires

799
00:39:27.080 --> 00:39:29.560
<v Speaker 4>to learn about subject X or subject Y,

800
00:39:29.740 --> 00:39:32.400
<v Speaker 4>that more and more people, I think, are able,

801
00:39:32.540 --> 00:39:35.200
<v Speaker 4>as I feel like I have been enabled in my life,

802
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.920
<v Speaker 4>to effectively tailor my own education

803
00:39:38.140 --> 00:39:38.560
<v Speaker 4>to a more professional path.

804
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.940
<v Speaker 4>Although I went to university for five years

805
00:39:40.940 --> 00:39:42.060
<v Speaker 4>and studied physics and mathematics,

806
00:39:42.340 --> 00:39:44.120
<v Speaker 4>since then I'd say that I've been involved

807
00:39:44.120 --> 00:39:47.800
<v Speaker 4>in a fairly active and ongoing program of self-education,

808
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:48.900
<v Speaker 4>which is fairly unique,

809
00:39:48.980 --> 00:39:52.500
<v Speaker 4>and I feel extremely privileged to have been able to do this

810
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:55.600
<v Speaker 4>and to live in an age when that is actually technically possible.

811
00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:58.640
<v Speaker 4>But I also do wonder,

812
00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:00.340
<v Speaker 4>what will this do in the future

813
00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:02.320
<v Speaker 4>to this sort of collective experience?

814
00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:05.940
<v Speaker 4>Up until about 300 years ago,

815
00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 4>basically, with the emergence,

816
00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:11.320
<v Speaker 4>it corresponds historically with the emergence of the printing press,

817
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.980
<v Speaker 4>people lived in fairly small communities

818
00:40:14.980 --> 00:40:18.160
<v Speaker 4>and had the collective experience of each community

819
00:40:18.160 --> 00:40:19.360
<v Speaker 4>was fairly similar.

820
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:23.500
<v Speaker 4>And for many people in the world, this is still the case.

821
00:40:23.720 --> 00:40:26.800
<v Speaker 4>But once you begin to have the vast dissemination of media,

822
00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:30.180
<v Speaker 4>there is a possibility for each person's individual experience

823
00:40:30.940 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 4>to sort of just go off on its own tangent.

824
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:35.600
<v Speaker 4>And do we kind of lose,

825
00:40:35.940 --> 00:40:36.740
<v Speaker 4>in some sense,

826
00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:41.560
<v Speaker 4>a collective glue that is...

827
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.680
<v Speaker 4>Is there a sort of collective glue of collective experience

828
00:40:45.680 --> 00:40:47.160
<v Speaker 4>that is necessary to society?

829
00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:50.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm not suggesting that I have the answer to this,

830
00:40:50.220 --> 00:40:51.820
<v Speaker 4>but I think there is...

831
00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:54.560
<v Speaker 4>I already see around us, I think, today,

832
00:40:54.680 --> 00:40:59.260
<v Speaker 4>the fact that the opportunity for the individual

833
00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:00.900
<v Speaker 4>to pursue its own path,

834
00:41:01.140 --> 00:41:03.280
<v Speaker 4>while it is wonderful and creative,

835
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:08.040
<v Speaker 4>can also produce a degree of alienation,

836
00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:09.960
<v Speaker 4>which I think is something that society

837
00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:13.060
<v Speaker 4>does not yet quite know how to deal with.

838
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.860
<v Speaker 4>And while I think that this plethora of media that is available

839
00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:18.200
<v Speaker 4>is absolutely marvellous,

840
00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:20.340
<v Speaker 4>and I wouldn't give it all up in my own life,

841
00:41:20.520 --> 00:41:23.580
<v Speaker 4>I do wonder where we are going as a society

842
00:41:23.580 --> 00:41:26.920
<v Speaker 4>and are we, in a sense, going to have...

843
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.060
<v Speaker 4>I suspect that one of the issues for the next century

844
00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:33.020
<v Speaker 4>is going to be the degree to which our society,

845
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:34.940
<v Speaker 4>in the sense of the world,

846
00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:38.060
<v Speaker 4>can indeed find some sense of collective cohesion

847
00:41:39.520 --> 00:41:44.540
<v Speaker 4>out of the sort of increasingly atomised, individuated selves.

848
00:41:44.680 --> 00:41:46.400
<v Speaker 4>The emergence of the printing press

849
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.980
<v Speaker 4>happens just before, historically,

850
00:41:49.180 --> 00:41:54.680
<v Speaker 4>historians locate the emergence of the modern individual self,

851
00:41:54.820 --> 00:41:56.900
<v Speaker 4>as we have sort of come to understand it,

852
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.640
<v Speaker 4>which is sort of epitomised by Descartes' great eye.

853
00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.940
<v Speaker 4>The concept of an individuated self

854
00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:03.260
<v Speaker 4>is a concept of a self

855
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:06.040
<v Speaker 4>that was not in quite the way that we understand.

856
00:42:06.140 --> 00:42:09.580
<v Speaker 4>It really wasn't existing prior to the 16th century

857
00:42:09.580 --> 00:42:12.440
<v Speaker 4>because people did have a collective experience

858
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:14.860
<v Speaker 4>that they could pretty much assume their neighbours shared.

859
00:42:15.160 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 4>Are we evolving towards a society where we will not have that?

860
00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:22.020
<v Speaker 4>And if so, how will society deal with it?

861
00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:24.020
<v Speaker 4>As I say, I don't think I have an answer to that,

862
00:42:24.180 --> 00:42:26.000
<v Speaker 4>but I think it is a question

863
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:30.280
<v Speaker 4>that all of this technology will raise for the lot of us.

864
00:42:30.680 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Robyn Williams>Thank you.

865
00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:35.380
<v Speaker 4>APPLAUSE

866
00:42:38.420 --> 00:42:39.720
<v Robyn Williams>Thank you, Margaret.

867
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:46.060
<v Robyn Williams>Paul Davis is working on a technology nobody has mentioned so far.

868
00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:48.680
<v Robyn Williams>His book to be published later this year

869
00:42:48.680 --> 00:42:51.020
<v Robyn Williams>is on how to build a time machine.

870
00:42:51.080 --> 00:42:51.680
<v Robyn Williams>Paul Davis.

871
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.680
<v Speaker 5>Thank you for the plug, Robin.

872
00:42:59.780 --> 00:43:01.500
<v Speaker 5>In fact, I was tempted to talk about

873
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.140
<v Speaker 5>that very futuristic technology,

874
00:43:04.540 --> 00:43:05.940
<v Speaker 5>but of course if we do build one,

875
00:43:06.040 --> 00:43:08.340
<v Speaker 5>then it will also be the technology of the past.

876
00:43:09.260 --> 00:43:12.080
<v Speaker 5>I don't know who it was, the anonymous sage,

877
00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:15.140
<v Speaker 5>who said that prediction is dangerous,

878
00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:16.420
<v Speaker 5>especially about the future.

879
00:43:17.700 --> 00:43:20.520
<v Speaker 5>The problem about all of this futurology

880
00:43:20.520 --> 00:43:22.540
<v Speaker 5>is that we tend to base our ideas

881
00:43:22.540 --> 00:43:24.420
<v Speaker 5>on extrapolation of present trends.

882
00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:26.440
<v Speaker 5>And I will remember as a child

883
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:28.860
<v Speaker 5>reading these wonderful picture books

884
00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:31.480
<v Speaker 5>that showed life in the year 2000.

885
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:33.480
<v Speaker 5>And they were full of skyscrapers,

886
00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:35.520
<v Speaker 5>as we used to call them,

887
00:43:35.580 --> 00:43:38.800
<v Speaker 5>with monorails linking them at the 50th floor

888
00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 5>and bases on the moon

889
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:43.440
<v Speaker 5>and all sorts of other things

890
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:46.620
<v Speaker 5>that were simply based on the idea

891
00:43:46.620 --> 00:43:49.960
<v Speaker 5>of taking what at that time was in rapid development

892
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.720
<v Speaker 5>and then just extrapolating for a few decades.

893
00:43:53.080 --> 00:43:56.100
<v Speaker 5>And I guess the most significant thing

894
00:43:56.100 --> 00:43:57.580
<v Speaker 5>about technological change

895
00:43:57.580 --> 00:44:00.800
<v Speaker 5>is that it's the things we haven't thought of

896
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:01.460
<v Speaker 5>that make all the difference.

897
00:44:01.460 --> 00:44:03.360
<v Speaker 5>And nobody was using words like

898
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:05.460
<v Speaker 5>the information revolution in the 1950s.

899
00:44:06.260 --> 00:44:07.160
<v Speaker 5>And yet that's the thing

900
00:44:07.160 --> 00:44:10.000
<v Speaker 5>that has probably most changed our lives.

901
00:44:10.200 --> 00:44:10.960
<v Speaker 5>And so if we look ahead,

902
00:44:12.020 --> 00:44:14.040
<v Speaker 5>what is it that is going to come out of the blue

903
00:44:14.740 --> 00:44:16.340
<v Speaker 5>in the next 50 years, say,

904
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.820
<v Speaker 5>that will have an equal impact

905
00:44:18.820 --> 00:44:20.720
<v Speaker 5>to the information revolution

906
00:44:21.260 --> 00:44:23.060
<v Speaker 5>over the past 50 years?

907
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:24.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, of course, if I knew what it was,

908
00:44:26.580 --> 00:44:28.580
<v Speaker 5>I would probably have made a lot of money.

909
00:44:30.220 --> 00:44:31.440
<v Speaker 5>It's in the nature of the fact

910
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:31.700
<v Speaker 5>that we can't predict the future

911
00:44:31.700 --> 00:44:32.560
<v Speaker 5>of the unexpected,

912
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:34.320
<v Speaker 5>that we can't predict it.

913
00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:36.740
<v Speaker 5>But if we just look at the way

914
00:44:36.740 --> 00:44:39.740
<v Speaker 5>in which technology as a whole has developed,

915
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:42.420
<v Speaker 5>I think I can distinguish three phases.

916
00:44:43.460 --> 00:44:44.840
<v Speaker 5>Back in the beginning,

917
00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:46.820
<v Speaker 5>the approach to technology

918
00:44:46.820 --> 00:44:49.800
<v Speaker 5>was basically suck it and see,

919
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:51.240
<v Speaker 5>or really knock it and see.

920
00:44:51.540 --> 00:44:53.220
<v Speaker 5>Stone age tools were made

921
00:44:53.220 --> 00:44:56.100
<v Speaker 5>by banging bits of stone together

922
00:44:56.100 --> 00:44:57.860
<v Speaker 5>and seeing what resulted.

923
00:44:58.060 --> 00:45:00.220
<v Speaker 5>And that trial and error approach

924
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.380
<v Speaker 5>continued right up until Renaissance Europe.

925
00:45:04.680 --> 00:45:07.720
<v Speaker 5>Some pretty sophisticated devices

926
00:45:07.720 --> 00:45:10.560
<v Speaker 5>were produced just on a trial and error approach.

927
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.620
<v Speaker 5>What distinguished the,

928
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:15.740
<v Speaker 5>what we might call the scientific

929
00:45:15.740 --> 00:45:18.040
<v Speaker 5>and then later the industrial revolution,

930
00:45:18.260 --> 00:45:20.000
<v Speaker 5>was that it led to technology

931
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:22.440
<v Speaker 5>in which the underlying principles

932
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.960
<v Speaker 5>were understood after Newton

933
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.400
<v Speaker 5>with the development of mechanics

934
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:30.660
<v Speaker 5>and then later the development of thermodynamics.

935
00:45:30.660 --> 00:45:32.740
<v Speaker 5>It became possible to design machines

936
00:45:32.740 --> 00:45:36.560
<v Speaker 5>with certain specific goals or purposes in mind.

937
00:45:36.740 --> 00:45:37.800
<v Speaker 5>In other words, somebody could say,

938
00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:39.680
<v Speaker 5>wouldn't it be great to have a device

939
00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:41.980
<v Speaker 5>to do X, Y or Z,

940
00:45:42.140 --> 00:45:43.860
<v Speaker 5>and you could sit down and apply

941
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:45.720
<v Speaker 5>the known scientific principles

942
00:45:45.720 --> 00:45:47.660
<v Speaker 5>to come up with such a device.

943
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.100
<v Speaker 5>And it was only a matter of getting the money to pay for it.

944
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:53.340
<v Speaker 5>What we can now glimpse is

945
00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:55.120
<v Speaker 5>the third great revolution

946
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:59.060
<v Speaker 5>where we use software or computation

947
00:45:59.060 --> 00:46:02.340
<v Speaker 5>to design the new technology.

948
00:46:02.620 --> 00:46:04.900
<v Speaker 5>The development of things like genetic algorithms,

949
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:07.340
<v Speaker 5>for example, means that this relieves us

950
00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:09.340
<v Speaker 5>of the responsibility to be smart enough

951
00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:12.080
<v Speaker 5>to figure out how to solve the technological problems.

952
00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:15.200
<v Speaker 5>We can let the technology do it for itself.

953
00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:18.940
<v Speaker 5>And the latest that I have heard,

954
00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:20.500
<v Speaker 5>the so-called molecular computer,

955
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:22.560
<v Speaker 5>not to be confused with the quantum computer,

956
00:46:22.680 --> 00:46:23.580
<v Speaker 5>I'll come on to that in a moment,

957
00:46:23.740 --> 00:46:28.840
<v Speaker 5>is basically a way of letting molecules organize themselves.

958
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:33.320
<v Speaker 5>And basically create their own software as they go

959
00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:35.800
<v Speaker 5>without somebody having to sit down and write it all.

960
00:46:36.200 --> 00:46:38.820
<v Speaker 5>Now, all of this may be upon us

961
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:41.660
<v Speaker 5>in another 10 or 15 years.

962
00:46:42.780 --> 00:46:45.880
<v Speaker 5>Most of the promise of this,

963
00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:49.060
<v Speaker 5>if you like, self-organizing or self-designing approach

964
00:46:49.060 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 5>to technology will require vast amounts

965
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:53.460
<v Speaker 5>of information processing capability.

966
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.220
<v Speaker 5>And already, I guess,

967
00:46:58.220 --> 00:47:01.060
<v Speaker 5>it was Bob Bishop who mentioned the famous Moore's Law,

968
00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:03.900
<v Speaker 5>the doubling of computational power

969
00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:05.460
<v Speaker 5>every 18 months or two years.

970
00:47:06.700 --> 00:47:08.140
<v Speaker 5>Well, in about 15 years,

971
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:11.220
<v Speaker 5>Moore's Law, based upon conventional technology,

972
00:47:11.500 --> 00:47:13.140
<v Speaker 5>is likely to hit the buffers.

973
00:47:13.220 --> 00:47:15.360
<v Speaker 5>The incredible shrinking microchip

974
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.820
<v Speaker 5>will shrink so small

975
00:47:16.820 --> 00:47:19.780
<v Speaker 5>that quantum effects at the atomic level

976
00:47:19.780 --> 00:47:20.940
<v Speaker 5>will begin to intrude.

977
00:47:21.180 --> 00:47:24.040
<v Speaker 5>This is not the place to deliver a lecture on quantum physics,

978
00:47:24.120 --> 00:47:26.160
<v Speaker 5>but if you know anything at all about the subject,

979
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:28.200
<v Speaker 5>you'll have heard of Heisenberg's

980
00:47:28.220 --> 00:47:29.440
<v Speaker 5>uncertainty principle.

981
00:47:30.200 --> 00:47:31.840
<v Speaker 5>Basically, at the atomic level,

982
00:47:32.040 --> 00:47:34.380
<v Speaker 5>everything that you can measure or observe

983
00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:37.660
<v Speaker 5>is subject to random fluctuations or uncertainty.

984
00:47:38.020 --> 00:47:39.240
<v Speaker 5>Things get fuzzy.

985
00:47:39.620 --> 00:47:42.840
<v Speaker 5>And computation, which is about information processing,

986
00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:45.540
<v Speaker 5>is something that by its very definition

987
00:47:45.540 --> 00:47:46.480
<v Speaker 5>needs to be precise.

988
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:50.320
<v Speaker 5>A computer's no good if it gives you an answer

989
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:53.760
<v Speaker 5>10 when you run it on the first occasion

990
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.360
<v Speaker 5>and 15 when you run it on the second occasion.

991
00:47:56.700 --> 00:47:58.200
<v Speaker 5>It's got to be right every time.

992
00:47:58.220 --> 00:47:59.360
<v Speaker 5>So it's got to be reliable.

993
00:47:59.660 --> 00:48:02.100
<v Speaker 5>So it appears that quantum physics would impose

994
00:48:02.660 --> 00:48:04.760
<v Speaker 5>some sort of limitation to the reliability

995
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:06.480
<v Speaker 5>of information processing.

996
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.060
<v Speaker 5>But some clever people about 20 years ago

997
00:48:10.060 --> 00:48:12.040
<v Speaker 5>spotted you could turn a sin into a virtue

998
00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:15.620
<v Speaker 5>and actually harness the quantum aspects of matter

999
00:48:16.220 --> 00:48:18.140
<v Speaker 5>to carry out what is, in effect,

1000
00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:21.480
<v Speaker 5>parallel processing, care of Mother Nature,

1001
00:48:21.580 --> 00:48:22.820
<v Speaker 5>at a vast scale.

1002
00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:24.260
<v Speaker 5>The point being this,

1003
00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:27.320
<v Speaker 5>that uncertainty implies alternatives.

1004
00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:31.220
<v Speaker 5>An electron is far towards a target.

1005
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:32.600
<v Speaker 5>Maybe it scatters to the left.

1006
00:48:32.660 --> 00:48:34.080
<v Speaker 5>Maybe it scatters to the right.

1007
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.140
<v Speaker 5>In the jargon of quantum physics,

1008
00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:38.220
<v Speaker 5>there are really two universes, two realities,

1009
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:39.560
<v Speaker 5>one with a left-moving electron,

1010
00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:41.260
<v Speaker 5>one with a right-moving electron.

1011
00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:43.940
<v Speaker 5>And quantum physics says that

1012
00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:45.500
<v Speaker 5>in the absence of an observation,

1013
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:48.520
<v Speaker 5>you must consider that both of these realities

1014
00:48:48.520 --> 00:48:49.440
<v Speaker 5>are present together

1015
00:48:50.220 --> 00:48:52.120
<v Speaker 5>in some sort of parallelism

1016
00:48:52.120 --> 00:48:55.060
<v Speaker 5>or coherent overlap.

1017
00:48:55.580 --> 00:48:58.200
<v Speaker 5>And the proposal for the quantum physics

1018
00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:00.220
<v Speaker 5>quantum computer is that one would

1019
00:49:00.220 --> 00:49:02.260
<v Speaker 5>harness that parallelism and compute

1020
00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:05.440
<v Speaker 5>in all the branches of the quantum system,

1021
00:49:05.580 --> 00:49:07.180
<v Speaker 5>the so-called wave function, simultaneously.

1022
00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:10.240
<v Speaker 5>And this would lead to a vast increase

1023
00:49:10.240 --> 00:49:11.620
<v Speaker 5>in computational power.

1024
00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:13.360
<v Speaker 5>To give you some idea,

1025
00:49:14.300 --> 00:49:18.100
<v Speaker 5>if you could link just 300 atoms together

1026
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:20.740
<v Speaker 5>in a coherent quantum system,

1027
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:22.240
<v Speaker 5>and that's not an easy thing to do,

1028
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:23.020
<v Speaker 5>but if you could do it,

1029
00:49:23.120 --> 00:49:25.340
<v Speaker 5>you would have more computational power

1030
00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:28.140
<v Speaker 5>than the entire observable universe

1031
00:49:29.180 --> 00:49:30.940
<v Speaker 5>commandeered as a conventional computer.

1032
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:32.320
<v Speaker 5>That is, if we could go out

1033
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:33.940
<v Speaker 5>and not only capture the galaxy,

1034
00:49:34.140 --> 00:49:36.880
<v Speaker 5>but all the billions of other galaxies,

1035
00:49:36.940 --> 00:49:38.200
<v Speaker 5>and bring them all together,

1036
00:49:38.240 --> 00:49:40.460
<v Speaker 5>and turn the whole thing into a gigantic,

1037
00:49:40.540 --> 00:49:42.860
<v Speaker 5>conventional silicon-type computer,

1038
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.500
<v Speaker 5>it would not have the same computational power

1039
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:48.760
<v Speaker 5>as just 300 atoms linked together

1040
00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:50.260
<v Speaker 5>to form a quantum computer.

1041
00:49:50.520 --> 00:49:52.240
<v Speaker 5>So no wonder the quantum computer

1042
00:49:52.240 --> 00:49:54.920
<v Speaker 5>has become the holy grail of fundamental physics.

1043
00:49:55.340 --> 00:49:57.640
<v Speaker 5>And even the Australian government

1044
00:49:57.640 --> 00:49:58.120
<v Speaker 5>has been very, very careful

1045
00:49:58.140 --> 00:49:58.500
<v Speaker 5>about this.

1046
00:49:58.500 --> 00:49:59.200
<v Speaker 5>is putting some,

1047
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:02.180
<v Speaker 5>I think about $20 million

1048
00:50:03.240 --> 00:50:04.760
<v Speaker 5>into the development

1049
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.360
<v Speaker 5>of a functional quantum computer.

1050
00:50:07.540 --> 00:50:08.220
<v Speaker 5>It's being developed,

1051
00:50:08.380 --> 00:50:12.180
<v Speaker 5>the software and design aspects

1052
00:50:12.180 --> 00:50:13.560
<v Speaker 5>at the University of Queensland,

1053
00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.480
<v Speaker 5>and the hardware aspects

1054
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.120
<v Speaker 5>at the University of New South Wales.

1055
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:20.400
<v Speaker 5>Now, there are some skeptics

1056
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:22.360
<v Speaker 5>who say that a quantum computer

1057
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:24.840
<v Speaker 5>is simply too hard to make.

1058
00:50:24.940 --> 00:50:26.100
<v Speaker 5>We're never going to have such a thing.

1059
00:50:26.100 --> 00:50:28.100
<v Speaker 5>But let's wait and see.

1060
00:50:28.420 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 5>I would say that there's at least

1061
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:33.020
<v Speaker 5>a 50-50 chance that a functioning

1062
00:50:33.020 --> 00:50:34.860
<v Speaker 5>quantum computer will be made

1063
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:35.680
<v Speaker 5>within my lifetime.

1064
00:50:36.100 --> 00:50:38.420
<v Speaker 5>And many people think that if we had

1065
00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:39.720
<v Speaker 5>such a device, it would represent

1066
00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:42.380
<v Speaker 5>an increase in processing power

1067
00:50:42.380 --> 00:50:43.960
<v Speaker 5>as great as that of the development

1068
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:46.180
<v Speaker 5>of the original electronic computer

1069
00:50:46.180 --> 00:50:47.840
<v Speaker 5>over counting on your fingers

1070
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:48.860
<v Speaker 5>or an abacus or something.

1071
00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:51.980
<v Speaker 5>We're talking about an exponential increase

1072
00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:53.940
<v Speaker 5>in processing capability.

1073
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:56.080
<v Speaker 5>And when you say, well,

1074
00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:57.000
<v Speaker 5>what's the use of all that?

1075
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:01.160
<v Speaker 5>Usually cited for a quantum computer

1076
00:51:01.160 --> 00:51:03.340
<v Speaker 5>is the ability to crack codes.

1077
00:51:04.240 --> 00:51:05.940
<v Speaker 5>A lot of codes are based

1078
00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:07.320
<v Speaker 5>on multiplying prime numbers.

1079
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:08.640
<v Speaker 5>So you get some very big number

1080
00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:11.480
<v Speaker 5>and factoring products of primes

1081
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:12.740
<v Speaker 5>at the reverse process,

1082
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.120
<v Speaker 5>it takes an enormous length of time.

1083
00:51:15.220 --> 00:51:15.820
<v Speaker 5>And so if you have,

1084
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:17.240
<v Speaker 5>I can't remember what it is,

1085
00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:19.620
<v Speaker 5>two 50-digit prime numbers

1086
00:51:19.620 --> 00:51:20.800
<v Speaker 5>multiplied together would take

1087
00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:22.220
<v Speaker 5>the world's fastest supercomputer

1088
00:51:22.220 --> 00:51:24.260
<v Speaker 5>longer than the age of the universe to factor.

1089
00:51:24.260 --> 00:51:26.260
<v Speaker 5>Whereas a quantum computer

1090
00:51:26.260 --> 00:51:27.600
<v Speaker 5>would do it in next to no time.

1091
00:51:27.820 --> 00:51:29.020
<v Speaker 5>And you may say, well,

1092
00:51:30.080 --> 00:51:31.420
<v Speaker 5>what's the point of that?

1093
00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:32.260
<v Speaker 5>No big deal.

1094
00:51:32.740 --> 00:51:35.420
<v Speaker 5>But if you really had that sort of ability

1095
00:51:35.420 --> 00:51:37.120
<v Speaker 5>to shift and manipulate information,

1096
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:41.300
<v Speaker 5>it's going to lead to untold applications,

1097
00:51:41.380 --> 00:51:42.700
<v Speaker 5>some of which have been hinted at

1098
00:51:42.700 --> 00:51:43.980
<v Speaker 5>by the other speakers.

1099
00:51:44.520 --> 00:51:47.020
<v Speaker 5>So I see the push for the quantum computer

1100
00:51:47.020 --> 00:51:50.460
<v Speaker 5>as something like what is going to trigger

1101
00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.180
<v Speaker 5>this next great level

1102
00:51:52.180 --> 00:51:53.540
<v Speaker 5>where we will use,

1103
00:51:53.540 --> 00:51:56.700
<v Speaker 5>I don't like calling it computation,

1104
00:51:57.060 --> 00:51:58.520
<v Speaker 5>I would prefer to think of it as

1105
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:01.480
<v Speaker 5>virtual reality or cyberspace.

1106
00:52:01.620 --> 00:52:02.780
<v Speaker 5>That the real world,

1107
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:04.900
<v Speaker 5>that the earlier technologies of DLT

1108
00:52:04.900 --> 00:52:06.900
<v Speaker 5>and real world things and real world stuff,

1109
00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:09.260
<v Speaker 5>the new technologies will take place

1110
00:52:09.260 --> 00:52:10.280
<v Speaker 5>really in cyberspace,

1111
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.860
<v Speaker 5>where real reality and virtual reality

1112
00:52:12.860 --> 00:52:13.740
<v Speaker 5>will become merged.

1113
00:52:14.520 --> 00:52:18.180
<v Speaker 5>And that's what this enormous increase

1114
00:52:18.180 --> 00:52:19.740
<v Speaker 5>in computational power will do.

1115
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:21.400
<v Speaker 5>I just want to finish with one more

1116
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:22.920
<v Speaker 5>little bit of futurology

1117
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:25.280
<v Speaker 5>because you see everything I've been saying

1118
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:26.500
<v Speaker 5>is small is beautiful.

1119
00:52:26.720 --> 00:52:29.040
<v Speaker 5>That getting down to atomic dimensions

1120
00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:32.880
<v Speaker 5>means one can harness untold information

1121
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:33.920
<v Speaker 5>processing capability.

1122
00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:39.500
<v Speaker 5>But another branch of small is beautiful

1123
00:52:39.500 --> 00:52:42.460
<v Speaker 5>is nanotechnology already been briefly alluded to.

1124
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.200
<v Speaker 5>And one will see the merging of computational

1125
00:52:46.200 --> 00:52:47.720
<v Speaker 5>and nanotechnologies.

1126
00:52:48.020 --> 00:52:50.020
<v Speaker 5>But again, nature is already there.

1127
00:52:50.180 --> 00:52:52.780
<v Speaker 5>The living cell is effectively a nanomachine.

1128
00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:56.040
<v Speaker 5>And at the moment we make this distinction

1129
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:57.940
<v Speaker 5>between the natural world,

1130
00:52:58.080 --> 00:52:59.760
<v Speaker 5>the world of things that grow,

1131
00:52:59.920 --> 00:53:01.140
<v Speaker 5>care of mother nature,

1132
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:02.700
<v Speaker 5>and the artificial world,

1133
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:04.040
<v Speaker 5>the world of machines that we make.

1134
00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:05.700
<v Speaker 5>But if you think of the cell

1135
00:53:05.700 --> 00:53:07.180
<v Speaker 5>as a collection of nanomachines

1136
00:53:07.780 --> 00:53:10.420
<v Speaker 5>where you could harvest pumps and chains

1137
00:53:10.420 --> 00:53:15.640
<v Speaker 5>and rotors and pretty much anything

1138
00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:17.380
<v Speaker 5>that the engineers can make

1139
00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:19.360
<v Speaker 5>on this sort of scale,

1140
00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:21.860
<v Speaker 5>nature is already made on that sort of scale

1141
00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:24.340
<v Speaker 5>on the cellular scale.

1142
00:53:24.600 --> 00:53:27.180
<v Speaker 5>I can foresee a time in the not too distant future

1143
00:53:27.180 --> 00:53:29.500
<v Speaker 5>where the distinction between the natural

1144
00:53:29.500 --> 00:53:30.760
<v Speaker 5>and the artificial will disappear.

1145
00:53:30.860 --> 00:53:33.680
<v Speaker 5>Where nanotechnology and biotechnology will merge.

1146
00:53:34.180 --> 00:53:36.560
<v Speaker 5>And this entire realm,

1147
00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:39.220
<v Speaker 5>this invisible realm of micro-machines,

1148
00:53:39.220 --> 00:53:42.960
<v Speaker 5>machines too small to be seen with the naked eye,

1149
00:53:43.120 --> 00:53:46.360
<v Speaker 5>is going to transform our world

1150
00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:48.860
<v Speaker 5>and our view of our place in the world.

1151
00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:51.840
<v Speaker 5>Because as the other speakers have alluded to,

1152
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:56.360
<v Speaker 5>we have an incredible information processing machine

1153
00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:57.440
<v Speaker 5>right here in our heads.

1154
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.480
<v Speaker 5>So the future I see is one increasingly of,

1155
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:09.140
<v Speaker 5>I guess, putting our faith in information processing systems

1156
00:54:09.140 --> 00:54:12.180
<v Speaker 5>to chart the future and to choose,

1157
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:14.720
<v Speaker 5>instead of us choosing what to design,

1158
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:16.840
<v Speaker 5>relying upon these other systems

1159
00:54:17.420 --> 00:54:19.420
<v Speaker 5>to design things for us.

1160
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:21.460
<v Speaker 5>Whether that will ultimately lead to

1161
00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:23.260
<v Speaker 5>something which is good or bad

1162
00:54:23.260 --> 00:54:25.920
<v Speaker 5>for humanity is another matter entirely.

1163
00:54:26.500 --> 00:54:28.340
<v Speaker 5>And in fact, probably that's a good point

1164
00:54:28.340 --> 00:54:29.740
<v Speaker 5>for us to hand over to the last speaker.

1165
00:54:34.460 --> 00:54:35.640
<v Robyn Williams>Thank you, Paul.

1166
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:39.680
<v Robyn Williams>And he didn't mention the time machine.

1167
00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:41.600
<v Robyn Williams>Our last speaker is Raymond Gator,

1168
00:54:41.740 --> 00:54:42.980
<v Robyn Williams>who is Professor of Moral Philosophy

1169
00:54:42.980 --> 00:54:45.100
<v Robyn Williams>at the University of London, King's College.

1170
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:47.120
<v Robyn Williams>And he's also Professor of Philosophy

1171
00:54:47.120 --> 00:54:49.020
<v Robyn Williams>at the Australian Catholic University.

1172
00:54:49.020 --> 00:54:51.320
<v Robyn Williams>So he spends half his time here

1173
00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:53.020
<v Robyn Williams>and half his time over there.

1174
00:54:53.200 --> 00:54:54.740
<v Robyn Williams>And it's nice that most,

1175
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:57.760
<v Robyn Williams>in fact, all of the panel are kind of local.

1176
00:54:58.500 --> 00:55:00.480
<v Robyn Williams>I'm going to have to be slightly less local.

1177
00:55:00.620 --> 00:55:02.020
<v Robyn Williams>And so I hope that Raymond Gator

1178
00:55:02.020 --> 00:55:04.840
<v Robyn Williams>will exercise his moral tolerance

1179
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:07.260
<v Robyn Williams>and forgive me when I sneak out in about five minutes' time.

1180
00:55:07.340 --> 00:55:08.860
<v Robyn Williams>But would you please welcome Raymond Gator?

1181
00:55:17.020 --> 00:55:19.580
<v Speaker 6>It occurred to me only about five minutes ago, actually,

1182
00:55:19.600 --> 00:55:21.080
<v Speaker 6>that I was supposed to be the bunny

1183
00:55:21.080 --> 00:55:22.860
<v Speaker 6>who makes moral sense of all this.

1184
00:55:25.520 --> 00:55:27.200
<v Speaker 6>But I'm afraid it didn't occur to me

1185
00:55:27.200 --> 00:55:29.420
<v Speaker 6>while I was preparing, so I'm not going to do that.

1186
00:55:30.520 --> 00:55:32.980
<v Speaker 6>Instead, I'm going to talk a little bit about robots.

1187
00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:38.840
<v Speaker 6>I'm sure it's true that we ain't seen this much

1188
00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:39.300
<v Speaker 6>and we ain't seen nothing yet.

1189
00:55:39.460 --> 00:55:41.640
<v Speaker 6>And I'm sure that Professor Brooks and his colleagues

1190
00:55:41.640 --> 00:55:43.820
<v Speaker 6>now and in the future will create machines,

1191
00:55:44.160 --> 00:55:45.900
<v Speaker 6>or perhaps we should just call them beings,

1192
00:55:46.220 --> 00:55:48.880
<v Speaker 6>that will do things to astonish and bewilder us.

1193
00:55:49.540 --> 00:55:52.200
<v Speaker 6>We'll be bewildered about the implications

1194
00:55:52.200 --> 00:55:54.460
<v Speaker 6>for our understanding of ourselves,

1195
00:55:55.160 --> 00:55:57.900
<v Speaker 6>of our inclination to attribute to those beings

1196
00:55:57.900 --> 00:55:59.520
<v Speaker 6>states and thoughts or feelings

1197
00:55:59.520 --> 00:56:02.700
<v Speaker 6>which so far we've attributed only to ourselves

1198
00:56:02.700 --> 00:56:03.920
<v Speaker 6>and to other animals.

1199
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:06.060
<v Speaker 6>If I could put it like this,

1200
00:56:06.520 --> 00:56:08.540
<v Speaker 6>the bewilderment will be a function

1201
00:56:08.860 --> 00:56:10.560
<v Speaker 6>of our uncertainty, I think,

1202
00:56:10.620 --> 00:56:12.800
<v Speaker 6>over whether to attribute to those beings

1203
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:13.900
<v Speaker 6>thoughts and feelings

1204
00:56:13.900 --> 00:56:16.860
<v Speaker 6>or to attribute to them thoughts and feelings

1205
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:18.520
<v Speaker 6>only in inverted commas.

1206
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:21.680
<v Speaker 6>We think, but they think, in inverted commas.

1207
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.280
<v Speaker 6>We desire, but they desire, in inverted commas.

1208
00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:27.960
<v Speaker 6>We talk, but they talk, in inverted commas.

1209
00:56:28.060 --> 00:56:30.920
<v Speaker 6>And even we look into each other's eyes,

1210
00:56:31.060 --> 00:56:33.360
<v Speaker 6>but they look into each other's eyes,

1211
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:35.040
<v Speaker 6>in inverted commas.

1212
00:56:36.180 --> 00:56:38.240
<v Speaker 6>And what we'll ask...

1213
00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:39.480
<v Speaker 6>Then we'll ask ourselves,

1214
00:56:39.560 --> 00:56:42.980
<v Speaker 6>what would make us remove the inverted commas?

1215
00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:44.980
<v Speaker 6>And some people will say,

1216
00:56:45.080 --> 00:56:48.000
<v Speaker 6>we'd do it if we believed those machines or those beings,

1217
00:56:48.140 --> 00:56:49.660
<v Speaker 6>whatever we call them, had consciousness.

1218
00:56:50.720 --> 00:56:53.760
<v Speaker 6>Well, consciousness, I think, is a word to make mischief with.

1219
00:56:54.660 --> 00:56:57.740
<v Speaker 6>It's not, anyhow, a state in addition to believing

1220
00:56:57.740 --> 00:56:59.740
<v Speaker 6>or thinking or desiring or seeing.

1221
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:02.160
<v Speaker 6>And the only way the machines...

1222
00:57:02.160 --> 00:57:04.060
<v Speaker 6>Only the way machines behave

1223
00:57:04.060 --> 00:57:06.660
<v Speaker 6>would make us attribute consciousness to them,

1224
00:57:06.740 --> 00:57:08.220
<v Speaker 6>but the transformation of consciousness

1225
00:57:08.240 --> 00:57:08.320
<v Speaker 6>would make us attribute consciousness to them.

1226
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:09.940
<v Speaker 6>And the trouble is that anything they do

1227
00:57:09.940 --> 00:57:13.320
<v Speaker 6>is vulnerable to be putting into inverted commas.

1228
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.320
<v Speaker 6>And that's no new thing,

1229
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:18.840
<v Speaker 6>because classically what philosophy has called

1230
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:20.760
<v Speaker 6>the mind-body problem has always,

1231
00:57:21.020 --> 00:57:22.460
<v Speaker 6>for all intents and purposes,

1232
00:57:22.620 --> 00:57:24.480
<v Speaker 6>been a mind-matter problem.

1233
00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:26.960
<v Speaker 6>The living body was never of account.

1234
00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:29.520
<v Speaker 6>Descartes thought it to be a machine,

1235
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:31.720
<v Speaker 6>and anti-Cartesians,

1236
00:57:31.820 --> 00:57:35.220
<v Speaker 6>especially modern-day materialist philosophers...

1237
00:57:35.900 --> 00:57:37.300
<v Speaker 6>I should say, by the way,

1238
00:57:37.340 --> 00:57:38.160
<v Speaker 6>after all that emphasis,

1239
00:57:38.160 --> 00:57:39.320
<v Speaker 6>on Catholic...

1240
00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:40.100
<v Speaker 6>I'm not a Catholic.

1241
00:57:40.180 --> 00:57:40.900
<v Speaker 6>I'm not religious.

1242
00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:45.200
<v Speaker 6>I don't want things to be misunderstood.

1243
00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:54.680
<v Speaker 6>But modern-day materialists think there's no reason whatsoever

1244
00:57:54.680 --> 00:57:57.360
<v Speaker 6>why we shouldn't be made of the same stuff as computers.

1245
00:57:57.720 --> 00:57:59.820
<v Speaker 6>And the significance of human behaviour

1246
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.340
<v Speaker 6>to the philosophy of mind

1247
00:58:02.160 --> 00:58:03.400
<v Speaker 6>has largely been as evidence

1248
00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:05.520
<v Speaker 6>for the existence of mental states

1249
00:58:05.520 --> 00:58:07.140
<v Speaker 6>which cause that behaviour.

1250
00:58:08.160 --> 00:58:10.160
<v Speaker 6>And as far as most philosophies go,

1251
00:58:10.300 --> 00:58:12.140
<v Speaker 6>whistles, bangs, flashing lights

1252
00:58:12.140 --> 00:58:13.440
<v Speaker 6>might have done just as well

1253
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.720
<v Speaker 6>provided they were correlated with those states.

1254
00:58:17.060 --> 00:58:19.480
<v Speaker 6>Well, this sort of thing goes deep in our culture,

1255
00:58:19.540 --> 00:58:22.100
<v Speaker 6>and people routinely give credence to the idea

1256
00:58:22.100 --> 00:58:23.540
<v Speaker 6>that machines might be made

1257
00:58:23.540 --> 00:58:25.660
<v Speaker 6>which will think and feel and converse with us.

1258
00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:28.600
<v Speaker 6>And they find little absurd in the idea

1259
00:58:28.600 --> 00:58:30.460
<v Speaker 6>that we might place a little black box

1260
00:58:30.460 --> 00:58:33.020
<v Speaker 6>on the dining room table at dinner

1261
00:58:33.020 --> 00:58:34.120
<v Speaker 6>to converse with us.

1262
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:35.960
<v Speaker 6>And if it were to act strangely,

1263
00:58:36.140 --> 00:58:37.960
<v Speaker 6>a repair kit in the bathroom,

1264
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:39.240
<v Speaker 6>next to the medicine cabinet,

1265
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:41.300
<v Speaker 6>will probably enable us to fix it.

1266
00:58:41.900 --> 00:58:44.640
<v Speaker 6>What, after all, is the difference in principle,

1267
00:58:46.060 --> 00:58:47.300
<v Speaker 6>we're inclined to ask,

1268
00:58:47.540 --> 00:58:49.140
<v Speaker 6>between using a screwdriver

1269
00:58:49.140 --> 00:58:51.840
<v Speaker 6>to help keep up one guest's conversation,

1270
00:58:52.220 --> 00:58:53.780
<v Speaker 6>or keep it up to the mark,

1271
00:58:53.900 --> 00:58:55.860
<v Speaker 6>and giving another an aspirin

1272
00:58:55.860 --> 00:58:58.720
<v Speaker 6>when her headache interferes with the quality of her thought?

1273
00:58:59.460 --> 00:59:01.200
<v Speaker 6>If you insist, they say,

1274
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:03.540
<v Speaker 6>we'll paint a face on the little black box.

1275
00:59:03.900 --> 00:59:06.580
<v Speaker 6>But why be so vulgar as to need it?

1276
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:09.380
<v Speaker 6>For some of us are that vulgar.

1277
00:59:09.940 --> 00:59:11.660
<v Speaker 6>Why does it matter to us

1278
00:59:11.660 --> 00:59:15.560
<v Speaker 6>that, let's say, robots should look like us,

1279
00:59:15.640 --> 00:59:18.600
<v Speaker 6>have eyes, and have a human type of form?

1280
00:59:19.140 --> 00:59:21.220
<v Speaker 6>And one answer is that

1281
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:24.180
<v Speaker 6>we've for so long associated mental life

1282
00:59:24.180 --> 00:59:25.960
<v Speaker 6>with the forms of bodily expression

1283
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:27.500
<v Speaker 6>in ourselves and in animals

1284
00:59:27.500 --> 00:59:29.580
<v Speaker 6>that it takes a lot of getting used to

1285
00:59:29.580 --> 00:59:33.320
<v Speaker 6>to conceive of it as existing in any sophisticated form

1286
00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:35.060
<v Speaker 6>just in a little black box.

1287
00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:37.100
<v Speaker 6>So, the thought goes,

1288
00:59:37.100 --> 00:59:39.900
<v Speaker 6>painting a face on it is a psychological aid

1289
00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:43.320
<v Speaker 6>to accepting a fact whose status as a fact

1290
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:44.920
<v Speaker 6>exists quite independently

1291
00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:48.000
<v Speaker 6>of our need for such psychological aids.

1292
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:50.320
<v Speaker 6>Well, I think that's mistaken.

1293
00:59:50.980 --> 00:59:54.720
<v Speaker 6>Our responses to the living human and animal face

1294
00:59:54.720 --> 00:59:57.860
<v Speaker 6>have, I think, actually very deeply structured

1295
00:59:57.860 --> 01:00:00.000
<v Speaker 6>the concepts with which we describe

1296
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.760
<v Speaker 6>what we and others feel and do.

1297
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.100
<v Speaker 6>And that thought really is Wittgenstein's.

1298
01:00:07.100 --> 01:00:09.620
<v Speaker 6>A philosopher not, I think, very popular at MIT.

1299
01:00:10.580 --> 01:00:12.800
<v Speaker 6>He turned over, in my judgement,

1300
01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:16.020
<v Speaker 6>a very natural and pervasive and common picture of the mind.

1301
01:00:16.460 --> 01:00:18.640
<v Speaker 6>And that picture is offered as something

1302
01:00:18.640 --> 01:00:21.560
<v Speaker 6>known to each self-conscious minded thing,

1303
01:00:21.720 --> 01:00:24.940
<v Speaker 6>let's say persons, by introspection in the first instance.

1304
01:00:25.500 --> 01:00:28.680
<v Speaker 6>And our attributions of sensations to others

1305
01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:30.340
<v Speaker 6>on this account is essentially,

1306
01:00:30.520 --> 01:00:33.160
<v Speaker 6>not just sensations but emotions and thoughts,

1307
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:34.880
<v Speaker 6>is essentially speculative.

1308
01:00:35.080 --> 01:00:37.080
<v Speaker 6>A hypothesis based on the

1309
01:00:37.100 --> 01:00:37.600
<v Speaker 6>nature of their behaviour.

1310
01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:40.800
<v Speaker 6>And the image here goes very deep.

1311
01:00:40.900 --> 01:00:43.720
<v Speaker 6>It's of a spectator acquainted by means of introspection

1312
01:00:43.720 --> 01:00:45.540
<v Speaker 6>with her own conscious states,

1313
01:00:46.240 --> 01:00:48.580
<v Speaker 6>wondering where else they might exist.

1314
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:52.920
<v Speaker 6>But for Wittgenstein, behaviour was not so much

1315
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:56.040
<v Speaker 6>a clue or evidence for the existence of consciousness

1316
01:00:56.040 --> 01:00:56.960
<v Speaker 6>in other beings.

1317
01:00:57.160 --> 01:01:00.000
<v Speaker 6>For him, our responses to one another,

1318
01:01:00.160 --> 01:01:03.360
<v Speaker 6>to the characteristic inflections of the human and animal form

1319
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:06.780
<v Speaker 6>in all their manifold varieties of expressiveness,

1320
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:10.920
<v Speaker 6>was not so much the basis for forming hypotheses

1321
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:14.320
<v Speaker 6>about whether people or other beings had sensations,

1322
01:01:14.580 --> 01:01:18.640
<v Speaker 6>but rather were factors that conditioned our actual concept

1323
01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:20.780
<v Speaker 6>of subjectivity, of consciousness,

1324
01:01:20.940 --> 01:01:22.560
<v Speaker 6>if you like to use that word.

1325
01:01:23.620 --> 01:01:25.600
<v Speaker 6>Let me read a little bit from him.

1326
01:01:26.540 --> 01:01:28.500
<v Speaker 6>This is a passage from one of his books.

1327
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:32.060
<v Speaker 6>Isn't it absurd to say of a body that it's in pain?

1328
01:01:32.520 --> 01:01:35.100
<v Speaker 6>And why does one feel an absurdity in that?

1329
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:36.760
<v Speaker 6>In what sense is it true that it's in pain?

1330
01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:38.580
<v Speaker 6>Is it true that my hand doesn't feel pain,

1331
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.320
<v Speaker 6>but I do in my hand?

1332
01:01:41.120 --> 01:01:42.700
<v Speaker 6>What sort of issue is this?

1333
01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:44.900
<v Speaker 6>Is it the body that feels pain?

1334
01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:46.760
<v Speaker 6>How is it to be decided?

1335
01:01:47.220 --> 01:01:50.100
<v Speaker 6>What makes it plausible to say that it's not the body?

1336
01:01:50.620 --> 01:01:52.220
<v Speaker 6>Well, something like this.

1337
01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:54.660
<v Speaker 6>If someone has a pain in his hand,

1338
01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.680
<v Speaker 6>then the hand doesn't say it, unless it writes it.

1339
01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:00.940
<v Speaker 6>And one doesn't comfort the hand, but the sufferer.

1340
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:02.620
<v Speaker 6>One looks into his face.

1341
01:02:03.240 --> 01:02:06.120
<v Speaker 6>How am I filled with pity for this human being?

1342
01:02:06.120 --> 01:02:09.500
<v Speaker 6>How does it come about what the object of my pity is?

1343
01:02:10.080 --> 01:02:11.040
<v Speaker 6>Then he says,

1344
01:02:11.200 --> 01:02:14.720
<v Speaker 6>Pity, one might say, is a form of the conviction

1345
01:02:14.720 --> 01:02:17.160
<v Speaker 6>that someone is in pain.

1346
01:02:17.700 --> 01:02:18.680
<v Speaker 6>And note that.

1347
01:02:18.820 --> 01:02:20.720
<v Speaker 6>Note that he says it's a form of conviction,

1348
01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:22.660
<v Speaker 6>not the effect of a conviction.

1349
01:02:23.260 --> 01:02:25.100
<v Speaker 6>And such characteristic responses

1350
01:02:25.100 --> 01:02:27.020
<v Speaker 6>as looking into a person's face

1351
01:02:27.020 --> 01:02:29.020
<v Speaker 6>while tending a wound to her hand,

1352
01:02:29.140 --> 01:02:31.280
<v Speaker 6>conditions, according to Wittgenstein,

1353
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:32.260
<v Speaker 6>and I think he's right,

1354
01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:34.040
<v Speaker 6>are very concept of sensation,

1355
01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:35.880
<v Speaker 6>of what it means to suffer,

1356
01:02:36.120 --> 01:02:38.000
<v Speaker 6>of what it means to feel a pain.

1357
01:02:38.240 --> 01:02:39.760
<v Speaker 6>Strange though that may sound.

1358
01:02:40.820 --> 01:02:42.580
<v Speaker 6>But, and this is also critical,

1359
01:02:43.040 --> 01:02:46.280
<v Speaker 6>it conditions for us certain understandings of a face,

1360
01:02:46.560 --> 01:02:48.320
<v Speaker 6>of what we mean by eyes

1361
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:51.340
<v Speaker 6>when we speak of looking into somebody's eye, for example.

1362
01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:53.860
<v Speaker 6>And the reason we need to give robots eyes

1363
01:02:53.860 --> 01:02:56.100
<v Speaker 6>is not so that we can believe

1364
01:02:56.100 --> 01:02:58.600
<v Speaker 6>that they have visual sensations like we do,

1365
01:02:58.720 --> 01:03:00.180
<v Speaker 6>but so we can look into them.

1366
01:03:01.100 --> 01:03:02.960
<v Speaker 6>Just think of what it can mean in life

1367
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:04.280
<v Speaker 6>to look into someone's eyes,

1368
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:05.760
<v Speaker 6>of what, for example,

1369
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:08.160
<v Speaker 6>we think of people who evade our eyes.

1370
01:03:08.680 --> 01:03:10.380
<v Speaker 6>And there are moments in conversation,

1371
01:03:11.260 --> 01:03:12.500
<v Speaker 6>and if this were not so,

1372
01:03:12.580 --> 01:03:14.640
<v Speaker 6>I don't think we'd have the concept of conversation

1373
01:03:14.640 --> 01:03:15.820
<v Speaker 6>that we do have,

1374
01:03:16.040 --> 01:03:18.800
<v Speaker 6>where we call one another to a kind of seriousness,

1375
01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:21.020
<v Speaker 6>a call that's often accompanied

1376
01:03:21.020 --> 01:03:23.000
<v Speaker 6>by looking each other straight in the eye.

1377
01:03:23.420 --> 01:03:25.280
<v Speaker 6>I might say to a friend, for example,

1378
01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:27.080
<v Speaker 6>come now, for God's sake,

1379
01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:28.540
<v Speaker 6>think about what you're saying.

1380
01:03:28.680 --> 01:03:31.000
<v Speaker 6>Don't always fall into such cliches.

1381
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:32.400
<v Speaker 6>Speak for yourselves.

1382
01:03:32.540 --> 01:03:33.900
<v Speaker 6>Speak out of your own life.

1383
01:03:34.900 --> 01:03:37.640
<v Speaker 6>And notice how inadequate it would be

1384
01:03:37.640 --> 01:03:40.360
<v Speaker 6>to describe that as calling on this friend

1385
01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:42.560
<v Speaker 6>to improve her performance in any way.

1386
01:03:43.340 --> 01:03:45.640
<v Speaker 6>So much of what she'd have to do

1387
01:03:45.640 --> 01:03:47.340
<v Speaker 6>to rise to that call to seriousness

1388
01:03:47.340 --> 01:03:49.520
<v Speaker 6>has to do with virtues of character,

1389
01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:51.480
<v Speaker 6>to do with her living her life

1390
01:03:51.480 --> 01:03:53.160
<v Speaker 6>with a certain kind of integrity,

1391
01:03:53.500 --> 01:03:55.900
<v Speaker 6>the kind we mean when we demand

1392
01:03:56.560 --> 01:03:58.540
<v Speaker 6>that she stop speaking in cliches

1393
01:03:58.540 --> 01:04:00.520
<v Speaker 6>or when we call her to live her own life

1394
01:04:00.520 --> 01:04:01.800
<v Speaker 6>and not somebody else's,

1395
01:04:01.820 --> 01:04:03.060
<v Speaker 6>and to speak out of that.

1396
01:04:03.060 --> 01:04:06.140
<v Speaker 6>And were that not so, I don't think,

1397
01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:07.860
<v Speaker 6>I mean, were that not so, I think,

1398
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:10.220
<v Speaker 6>we wouldn't make the distinction that we do

1399
01:04:10.220 --> 01:04:11.800
<v Speaker 6>and which is so important to us

1400
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:14.040
<v Speaker 6>between knowledgableness and wisdom.

1401
01:04:14.460 --> 01:04:16.060
<v Speaker 6>And we wouldn't give the inflections

1402
01:04:16.820 --> 01:04:18.960
<v Speaker 6>to that very common expression

1403
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:20.800
<v Speaker 6>when we say of somebody,

1404
01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:22.860
<v Speaker 6>that person has something to say.

1405
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:26.020
<v Speaker 6>And all that, I think,

1406
01:04:26.020 --> 01:04:27.700
<v Speaker 6>is part of what we mean by talk

1407
01:04:27.700 --> 01:04:31.720
<v Speaker 6>when we exclaim with some relief,

1408
01:04:31.900 --> 01:04:33.040
<v Speaker 6>at last, somebody's here.

1409
01:04:33.060 --> 01:04:34.000
<v Speaker 6>And we don't want to talk to.

1410
01:04:35.640 --> 01:04:37.600
<v Speaker 6>Well, the concept of life

1411
01:04:37.600 --> 01:04:38.900
<v Speaker 6>that I've been talking about here,

1412
01:04:38.980 --> 01:04:40.520
<v Speaker 6>the concept we invoke when we speak

1413
01:04:40.520 --> 01:04:42.800
<v Speaker 6>of a person making sense of her life

1414
01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:43.980
<v Speaker 6>or success of her life

1415
01:04:43.980 --> 01:04:46.260
<v Speaker 6>or of taking a wrong turning in her life,

1416
01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:47.900
<v Speaker 6>that's not a biological notion.

1417
01:04:48.240 --> 01:04:50.120
<v Speaker 6>And it's very, very important to remember

1418
01:04:50.120 --> 01:04:51.220
<v Speaker 6>in all these discussions

1419
01:04:51.220 --> 01:04:53.820
<v Speaker 6>that life is a word with many meanings.

1420
01:04:54.460 --> 01:04:56.460
<v Speaker 6>And I suspect that the meaning of it,

1421
01:04:56.640 --> 01:04:58.800
<v Speaker 6>when we contrast living things

1422
01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.800
<v Speaker 6>and mechanical things,

1423
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.280
<v Speaker 6>is not a notion to be deepened

1424
01:05:03.060 --> 01:05:03.940
<v Speaker 6>by the sciences of life.

1425
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:06.380
<v Speaker 6>It's a notion, for example,

1426
01:05:06.560 --> 01:05:08.380
<v Speaker 6>that makes something very significant

1427
01:05:08.380 --> 01:05:10.260
<v Speaker 6>of the fact that living things die

1428
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:11.920
<v Speaker 6>rather than just break down

1429
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:14.580
<v Speaker 6>or cease to exist in some other kind of way.

1430
01:05:15.240 --> 01:05:17.940
<v Speaker 6>And I think, unless we could respond to machines

1431
01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:21.340
<v Speaker 6>in something like the way I sketched

1432
01:05:21.340 --> 01:05:23.280
<v Speaker 6>in that response to a friend

1433
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.800
<v Speaker 6>and what she would have to rise to

1434
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:26.300
<v Speaker 6>and what I would have to rise to,

1435
01:05:27.060 --> 01:05:28.540
<v Speaker 6>then I don't think we would ever take

1436
01:05:28.540 --> 01:05:29.780
<v Speaker 6>the inverted commas away

1437
01:05:29.780 --> 01:05:31.500
<v Speaker 6>from the attribution

1438
01:05:31.500 --> 01:05:34.240
<v Speaker 6>of conversational powers to those machines.

1439
01:05:34.820 --> 01:05:37.420
<v Speaker 6>And I think, on principle,

1440
01:05:37.580 --> 01:05:39.240
<v Speaker 6>I mean, on a kind of philosophical principle,

1441
01:05:39.340 --> 01:05:41.640
<v Speaker 6>that we can't decide in advance,

1442
01:05:41.660 --> 01:05:44.860
<v Speaker 6>now, on the basis of any knowledge we may have,

1443
01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:46.300
<v Speaker 6>philosophical or scientific,

1444
01:05:47.100 --> 01:05:48.780
<v Speaker 6>whether we ever would take

1445
01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:51.420
<v Speaker 6>those inverted commas away.

1446
01:05:51.600 --> 01:05:55.740
<v Speaker 6>It will depend on how we respond in the end,

1447
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:59.240
<v Speaker 6>but our responses will have themselves to be assessed

1448
01:05:59.240 --> 01:06:01.480
<v Speaker 6>in a critically reflective way

1449
01:06:01.500 --> 01:06:06.300
<v Speaker 6>where response and certain kinds of critical examination

1450
01:06:06.300 --> 01:06:08.820
<v Speaker 6>about concepts just go hand in hand.

1451
01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:25.080
<v Speaker 5>Well, seeing as Robin's gone,

1452
01:06:25.340 --> 01:06:27.420
<v Speaker 5>he asked me if I could handle questions.

1453
01:06:27.680 --> 01:06:30.980
<v Speaker 5>We have only five minutes or so, I'm afraid,

1454
01:06:30.980 --> 01:06:33.460
<v Speaker 5>because we've all gone on for so long here on the panel.

1455
01:06:33.660 --> 01:06:36.160
<v Speaker 5>There's a microphone there in the middle of the hall.

1456
01:06:36.380 --> 01:06:38.540
<v Speaker 5>If there are any questions for any of the panellists

1457
01:06:38.540 --> 01:06:42.380
<v Speaker 5>except Robin, then please come forward and ask them.

1458
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:45.960
<v Speaker 5>If they're not, we'll just go on speaking.

1459
01:06:46.720 --> 01:06:48.880
<v Speaker 5>No, there's a lady coming forward now.

1460
01:06:50.300 --> 01:06:52.140
<v Audience>I've got a question, and it's about...

1461
01:06:52.140 --> 01:06:56.340
<v Speaker 4>With the techno revolution, do you think that sort of...

1462
01:06:57.600 --> 01:06:59.720
<v Audience>This is more related to maths and science,

1463
01:06:59.720 --> 01:07:02.160
<v Audience>that, well, just generally,

1464
01:07:02.240 --> 01:07:05.740
<v Audience>the intellectual level of, say, the next generation will be lower

1465
01:07:05.740 --> 01:07:07.720
<v Audience>because they'll only have to use machines?

1466
01:07:07.980 --> 01:07:09.340
<v Audience>Like, how do you think it will affect

1467
01:07:09.340 --> 01:07:13.320
<v Audience>the intelligence level of young humans in the future?

1468
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:15.620
<v Speaker 5>Will we all become stupid if we depend on these machines?

1469
01:07:16.460 --> 01:07:18.480
<v Speaker 5>Children don't learn their tables any more.

1470
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:22.340
<v Speaker 5>Would anyone like to take up the challenge of that one?

1471
01:07:22.620 --> 01:07:22.880
<v Bob Bishop>Yeah.

1472
01:07:23.120 --> 01:07:26.000
<v Speaker 5>Bob? Can we hear you if you just remain seated?

1473
01:07:26.140 --> 01:07:26.300
<v Bob Bishop>Yeah.

1474
01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:29.000
<v Bob Bishop>Personally, for example,

1475
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.740
<v Bob Bishop>I always remember phone numbers for that reason.

1476
01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:36.080
<v Bob Bishop>It's a good test if you're, you know, able to do the basics.

1477
01:07:36.580 --> 01:07:38.480
<v Bob Bishop>But I think in general what's happening,

1478
01:07:38.580 --> 01:07:42.640
<v Bob Bishop>the younger generations are moving up in their conceptual apparatus

1479
01:07:42.640 --> 01:07:47.020
<v Bob Bishop>and the basic building blocks that they think on in terms of...

1480
01:07:47.020 --> 01:07:51.300
<v Bob Bishop>So they're able to build our higher and higher level language

1481
01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:52.960
<v Bob Bishop>and go further as a result,

1482
01:07:54.020 --> 01:07:56.100
<v Bob Bishop>whereas, you know, the older generation,

1483
01:07:56.240 --> 01:07:58.980
<v Bob Bishop>we were starting down at a lower level level,

1484
01:07:58.980 --> 01:07:59.540
<v Bob Bishop>and we were starting at a lower level building block.

1485
01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:03.940
<v Bob Bishop>So I do think from a conceptual, intellectual level,

1486
01:08:04.080 --> 01:08:07.060
<v Bob Bishop>the new generations are skipping ahead

1487
01:08:07.060 --> 01:08:10.400
<v Bob Bishop>and taking for granted what we had to build.

1488
01:08:10.860 --> 01:08:13.260
<v Bob Bishop>And we took years to build that stuff,

1489
01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:15.980
<v Bob Bishop>but now they take it for granted, they move on,

1490
01:08:16.020 --> 01:08:17.760
<v Bob Bishop>they use higher level concepts,

1491
01:08:18.140 --> 01:08:20.500
<v Bob Bishop>and they explore further, they can see further,

1492
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:21.960
<v Bob Bishop>because they're standing on our shoulders.

1493
01:08:22.280 --> 01:08:23.680
<v Speaker 5>So young people aren't stupid?

1494
01:08:24.160 --> 01:08:24.680
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1495
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:25.040
<v Speaker 5>Right.

1496
01:08:28.980 --> 01:08:29.200
<v Speaker 5>So, I think that's one of the things.

1497
01:08:29.860 --> 01:08:30.480
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead.

1498
01:08:30.580 --> 01:08:31.780
<v Audience>Yeah, I want to put forward the question

1499
01:08:31.780 --> 01:08:36.300
<v Audience>about the social ramifications of these biomechanical advancements,

1500
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:38.680
<v Audience>especially in the first and third world.

1501
01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:41.900
<v Audience>If we do end up in, say, 50 years or 20 years

1502
01:08:41.900 --> 01:08:43.940
<v Audience>with the internet plugged into our brain

1503
01:08:43.940 --> 01:08:48.360
<v Audience>and cochlear implants and improved eyesight for the first world,

1504
01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:51.840
<v Audience>how do you guys and lady think that that's going to affect

1505
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:53.760
<v Audience>the difference between the rich and the poor?

1506
01:08:53.940 --> 01:08:56.540
<v Audience>Obviously, there might be a big power difference

1507
01:08:56.540 --> 01:08:58.480
<v Audience>and technological difference.

1508
01:08:58.480 --> 01:08:58.700
<v Audience>But there might be a big difference

1509
01:08:58.700 --> 01:09:01.500
<v Audience>between people that have that kind of technology in their bodies

1510
01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:02.880
<v Audience>as well as around them.

1511
01:09:04.340 --> 01:09:05.460
<v Speaker 5>Rodney, is that one for you?

1512
01:09:05.480 --> 01:09:06.740
<v Speaker 5>Would you like to take that one?

1513
01:09:07.100 --> 01:09:09.960
<v Rodney Brooks>Yeah, I think that's a good question.

1514
01:09:10.140 --> 01:09:12.040
<v Rodney Brooks>And I think it's...

1515
01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.100
<v Rodney Brooks>The answers are not as obvious as people think.

1516
01:09:15.320 --> 01:09:17.460
<v Rodney Brooks>You know, we all talk about the digital divide,

1517
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.360
<v Rodney Brooks>but at the same time, when we look at what's happening

1518
01:09:20.360 --> 01:09:22.700
<v Rodney Brooks>in many third world countries, not all third world countries,

1519
01:09:22.780 --> 01:09:23.960
<v Rodney Brooks>but many third world countries,

1520
01:09:24.140 --> 01:09:25.620
<v Rodney Brooks>that there has been a leapfrogging

1521
01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:28.520
<v Rodney Brooks>of technology availability.

1522
01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:30.580
<v Rodney Brooks>Look at Bangladesh, for instance,

1523
01:09:30.700 --> 01:09:34.020
<v Rodney Brooks>where the Grameen Bank is now funding women

1524
01:09:34.020 --> 01:09:35.620
<v Rodney Brooks>to have cell phones in villages

1525
01:09:35.620 --> 01:09:38.860
<v Rodney Brooks>and they become the communication person for the village

1526
01:09:38.860 --> 01:09:40.480
<v Rodney Brooks>in a way that just wasn't possible

1527
01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:43.620
<v Rodney Brooks>even in Adelaide 50 years ago.

1528
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:46.120
<v Rodney Brooks>There is a lag, but some of these technologies

1529
01:09:46.120 --> 01:09:47.360
<v Rodney Brooks>have become so cheap

1530
01:09:47.360 --> 01:09:51.160
<v Rodney Brooks>that there can be widespread propagation of them.

1531
01:09:51.400 --> 01:09:52.100
<v Rodney Brooks>I think...

1532
01:09:53.620 --> 01:09:55.360
<v Rodney Brooks>I think we probably would agree

1533
01:09:55.620 --> 01:09:59.560
<v Rodney Brooks>that it's preferable for rich people in the West

1534
01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:02.120
<v Rodney Brooks>to be buying artificial organs

1535
01:10:02.120 --> 01:10:06.060
<v Rodney Brooks>than buying organs from poor people in the third world.

1536
01:10:09.620 --> 01:10:12.040
<v Rodney Brooks>But I think it's up to our societies

1537
01:10:12.040 --> 01:10:15.140
<v Rodney Brooks>and our intergovernmental organisations and NGOs

1538
01:10:15.140 --> 01:10:18.540
<v Rodney Brooks>to see how we should be distributing this technology.

1539
01:10:18.780 --> 01:10:21.060
<v Rodney Brooks>And it's not just the technology itself,

1540
01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:25.280
<v Rodney Brooks>it's what we as people want to do and choose to do.

1541
01:10:25.620 --> 01:10:28.380
<v Rodney Brooks>And what we view as the moral thing to do.

1542
01:10:28.540 --> 01:10:30.900
<v Rodney Brooks>So I don't think it's technology by itself

1543
01:10:30.900 --> 01:10:32.560
<v Rodney Brooks>that causes the divide,

1544
01:10:32.860 --> 01:10:34.740
<v Rodney Brooks>it is how we interact with people.

1545
01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:36.720
<v Rodney Brooks>And the next thing to think about

1546
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:38.460
<v Rodney Brooks>is to look at history

1547
01:10:38.460 --> 01:10:40.860
<v Rodney Brooks>and the places that have been rich

1548
01:10:40.860 --> 01:10:42.180
<v Rodney Brooks>and have been on top,

1549
01:10:43.020 --> 01:10:44.200
<v Rodney Brooks>on top in quotes,

1550
01:10:44.540 --> 01:10:49.020
<v Rodney Brooks>are still not on top of historical times.

1551
01:10:49.320 --> 01:10:51.260
<v Rodney Brooks>So I think we will see shifts,

1552
01:10:51.300 --> 01:10:53.720
<v Rodney Brooks>as we have seen shifts over the last few hundred years,

1553
01:10:53.720 --> 01:10:56.420
<v Rodney Brooks>of what places are more powerful and less powerful

1554
01:10:56.420 --> 01:10:58.660
<v Rodney Brooks>and places that are very powerful today

1555
01:10:58.660 --> 01:11:00.880
<v Rodney Brooks>may not be so powerful in 50 years.

1556
01:11:01.040 --> 01:11:02.860
<v Rodney Brooks>So I don't think any of the answers are straightforward.

1557
01:11:04.180 --> 01:11:07.340
<v Speaker 5>I think we're going to have to limit the question to one more,

1558
01:11:07.460 --> 01:11:11.060
<v Speaker 5>I'm afraid, if the little notice in front of me means anything.

1559
01:11:11.420 --> 01:11:12.780
<v Speaker 5>So, last question.

1560
01:11:13.280 --> 01:11:15.920
<v Audience>I'd suggest that you're building your technologies

1561
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:20.860
<v Audience>on the blood and guts of the poor people in the third world

1562
01:11:20.860 --> 01:11:23.700
<v Audience>and the poor people in the industrial world.

1563
01:11:23.720 --> 01:11:29.200
<v Audience>And there's a hell of a lot of us

1564
01:11:29.200 --> 01:11:32.700
<v Audience>that don't want our food chain absolutely wrecked

1565
01:11:32.700 --> 01:11:35.400
<v Audience>by the genetically modified animals

1566
01:11:35.400 --> 01:11:41.080
<v Audience>and the vegetables and everything, and the grains.

1567
01:11:42.540 --> 01:11:44.060
<v Audience>It's poisoning our system,

1568
01:11:44.540 --> 01:11:46.100
<v Audience>it's poisoning our land,

1569
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:48.740
<v Speaker 5>and what are you going to do about it?

1570
01:11:48.760 --> 01:11:50.820
<v Speaker 5>Did you want a comment from the panellists?

1571
01:11:50.900 --> 01:11:53.300
<v Audience>I think it's more than just a moral and ethical question.

1572
01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:57.300
<v Audience>And I think, you know, to consider...

1573
01:11:58.020 --> 01:11:59.440
<v Audience>Did you want a reply, sir?

1574
01:11:59.560 --> 01:12:00.720
<v Audience>Look at what we're coming to

1575
01:12:01.300 --> 01:12:04.740
<v Audience>and look at the beautiful moral and ethical questions

1576
01:12:05.300 --> 01:12:07.440
<v Audience>down the track in 20, 30 years.

1577
01:12:08.380 --> 01:12:10.160
<v Audience>Think about where you're going.

1578
01:12:10.360 --> 01:12:14.280
<v Speaker 5>OK. Now, we didn't get into genetically modified foods

1579
01:12:14.280 --> 01:12:15.580
<v Speaker 5>in this particular debate,

1580
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:18.380
<v Speaker 5>but if any of our panellists would like to answer that...

1581
01:12:18.380 --> 01:12:21.560
<v Speaker 5>Margaret, I don't know whether you're sitting quietly on the end of the row.

1582
01:12:21.740 --> 01:12:21.920
<v Speaker 5>I am.

1583
01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:25.500
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, as you say, Paul...

1584
01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:26.600
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, as you say, Paul, I mean,

1585
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:28.900
<v Speaker 4>you know, we haven't even brought it up.

1586
01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:32.060
<v Speaker 4>I think it's too big a question to sort of...

1587
01:12:32.060 --> 01:12:33.600
<v Speaker 4>In the last 30 seconds, yes.

1588
01:12:34.860 --> 01:12:36.780
<v Speaker 5>OK, I would like to continue the debate,

1589
01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:38.540
<v Speaker 5>but I think we do have to vacate the hall,

1590
01:12:38.660 --> 01:12:41.580
<v Speaker 5>and I'm sorry there hasn't been more time for questions.

1591
01:12:41.660 --> 01:12:43.240
<v Speaker 5>So, before you leave,

1592
01:12:43.700 --> 01:12:46.000
<v Speaker 5>perhaps you could thank all of the panellists very much.

1593
01:12:46.940 --> 01:12:47.300
<v Speaker 5>APPLAUSE

1594
01:13:00.360 --> 01:13:01.020
<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

