WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.340 Well, welcome everybody to this afternoon's session. 2 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:05.080 We're lucky we had a little bit of sunshine outside 3 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:07.900 in the break, in the middle of the day. 4 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.800 We've just been waiting a few minutes 5 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:12.260 because we know that this is a little bit further 6 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:14.220 from the food supplies, 7 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.420 and it's taken people a little bit longer to get to. 8 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:23.340 Well, it's my great pleasure to introduce Zaitun Mohamed Kazim, 9 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:25.300 otherwise known as Tony. 10 00:00:26.460 --> 00:00:28.200 And it's very clear to me 11 00:00:28.200 --> 00:00:31.700 that she's particularly well-known around Adelaide. 12 00:00:32.380 --> 00:00:34.480 While we've been waiting out there, 13 00:00:34.580 --> 00:00:38.600 all sorts of people have come up and greeted her warmly, 14 00:00:38.620 --> 00:00:40.680 including, when I was making the comment, 15 00:00:40.780 --> 00:00:42.660 oh, another friend, her father-in-law. 16 00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:47.960 So, quite clearly, she's very, very well-known here. 17 00:00:48.060 --> 00:00:51.840 It's also a great delight to me to introduce somebody 18 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.840 who has been described as one of the ten most significant women 19 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:57.400 in Malaysia in 1999. 20 00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:59.720 What a wonderful honour. 21 00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:02.460 Well, just a little... 22 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:03.140 LAUGHTER 23 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:14.000 Well, just a little bit about Tony. 24 00:01:14.140 --> 00:01:16.500 You have obviously all read about her, 25 00:01:16.540 --> 00:01:19.960 but although she has stood for a parliamentary seat 26 00:01:19.960 --> 00:01:21.820 as the first independent women's candidate 27 00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:23.480 running on women's issues, 28 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.200 that is not her major focus. 29 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:28.180 Her major focus is on... 30 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:29.580 ..on women's activism, 31 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.100 and she's a freelance trainer, writer and consultant 32 00:01:33.100 --> 00:01:34.020 on social issues, 33 00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:37.020 with a particular focus on women and gender issues. 34 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:41.940 She works within Malaysia, China, Philippines and Thailand 35 00:01:41.940 --> 00:01:45.180 and has worked with the ILO as a consultant 36 00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:48.600 preparing a report on initiatives against sexual harassment. 37 00:01:49.900 --> 00:01:53.240 Since 1994, she's been very active 38 00:01:53.240 --> 00:01:55.480 in the women's movement in Malaysia. 39 00:01:56.020 --> 00:01:58.020 And this, I understand, 40 00:01:58.200 --> 00:01:59.800 is a very difficult task. 41 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.120 There's much that needs to be done, 42 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:04.420 but as she was just explaining to me, 43 00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:07.640 actually finding out the figures of what is to be done 44 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:09.660 is something that's very, very difficult, 45 00:02:09.740 --> 00:02:13.780 not to mention the amount of opposition she's encountered. 46 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:17.540 And in common with many of the speakers here, 47 00:02:17.660 --> 00:02:23.460 has experienced all sorts of harassment for her activities. 48 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:27.820 So please join me in welcoming Tony to this session. 49 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:30.120 Thank you. 50 00:02:35.260 --> 00:02:36.280 Thanks very much. 51 00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:37.840 It's really nice to be back in Adelaide. 52 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:41.020 I used to watch people who do this, you know, 53 00:02:41.040 --> 00:02:43.160 and they say, it's so nice to be back here, 54 00:02:43.200 --> 00:02:44.300 and so I'm pretentious. 55 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:47.920 But actually, I know now what they mean, 56 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.300 because it is really nice to be back here. 57 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:53.780 Thank you. 58 00:02:55.540 --> 00:02:55.980 I... 59 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:58.180 must have played... 60 00:02:58.180 --> 00:02:59.540 I must have played this a million times in my head. 61 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:00.800 What am I going to start with, you know? 62 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:02.000 What am I going to say? 63 00:03:02.480 --> 00:03:06.480 But I guess what's bugging me the most right now 64 00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:08.780 is that about ten days ago, 65 00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.220 two friends of mine were arrested 66 00:03:11.920 --> 00:03:14.000 under the Internal Security Act, 67 00:03:14.980 --> 00:03:19.680 which allows the state to abduct people. 68 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.120 And I use abduct with no reservations, yeah? 69 00:03:23.140 --> 00:03:24.760 And they're incommunicado. 70 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.160 The act allows for 60 days. 71 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:29.460 60 days of interrogation, 72 00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:32.620 and, you know, past detainees have spoken about 73 00:03:32.620 --> 00:03:34.800 massive torture during those 60 days. 74 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.000 So as I speak now, I'm wondering what's happening to him, you know? 75 00:03:38.100 --> 00:03:39.580 I'm wondering what's happening to Jonah. 76 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.380 Two days ago, a few friends held a vigil for him, 77 00:03:45.980 --> 00:03:47.360 essentially asking the police, 78 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:48.400 where is he, you know? 79 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:49.940 What are you doing to him? 80 00:03:50.440 --> 00:03:53.540 There were only 13 of my friends gathered there, you know? 81 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:55.580 11 women and two men. 82 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:57.780 And there were 40... 83 00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:01.260 riot squad police officers around them. 84 00:04:01.940 --> 00:04:07.040 Now this just tells me how insecure the state is, you know? 85 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:08.960 I don't see it as a weakness at all. 86 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:14.100 I sort of think that you can tell how worried a state is 87 00:04:14.100 --> 00:04:19.300 or a ruler is by how little it takes to make them shake, 88 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:22.280 how little it takes to make them flinch and get upset. 89 00:04:22.580 --> 00:04:24.580 So the next time he makes some crack about you, 90 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:25.680 you know where he's coming from. 91 00:04:27.260 --> 00:04:28.160 So I'm worried about that. 92 00:04:28.180 --> 00:04:28.580 I'm worried about them. 93 00:04:28.900 --> 00:04:31.180 I guess my bigger worry is the fact that 94 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:36.020 when you read about two more activists arrested in Malaysia, 95 00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:37.920 it probably doesn't resonate very much. 96 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:39.500 It's like, oh yes, another two, you know? 97 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:42.460 For me, as every year goes past, 98 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:44.800 it gets more and more frightening 99 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:47.840 because it gets closer and closer, you know? 100 00:04:47.900 --> 00:04:50.000 First it was people I sort of respected, 101 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:51.520 and then it was people I knew, 102 00:04:51.640 --> 00:04:53.620 and then it was people that I'm friends with, 103 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.040 and maybe one day it'll be me, you know? 104 00:04:56.080 --> 00:04:57.440 There are already threats that if... 105 00:04:58.380 --> 00:05:01.900 Malaysians go abroad and speak unfavorably of the government, 106 00:05:02.060 --> 00:05:03.920 then their passports will be impounded. 107 00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:06.360 So if I don't get a chance to say, 108 00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:08.640 I'm glad and I'm happy to be here again, you'll know why. 109 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.600 Nonetheless, I actually don't care anymore 110 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:16.560 if they think I'm saying awful stuff. 111 00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:20.380 And I in particular do not care 112 00:05:20.380 --> 00:05:24.240 if there are special secret police in the crowd. 113 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:28.160 Because, you know, we have a strong tradition, you know, 114 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.100 a strong tradition of secret police. 115 00:05:30.820 --> 00:05:32.260 We call them special branch. 116 00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:35.940 What's so special about them is very strange to me. 117 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:37.940 But please come in. Thank you. 118 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:41.940 But I'm actually very proud, you know? 119 00:05:41.980 --> 00:05:43.740 A few years ago I used to feel... 120 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:46.360 I don't like saying I'm Malaysian 121 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:48.360 because we do a lot of embarrassing things, 122 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:49.720 and I feel that personally. 123 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.380 But now I actually feel very proud in thinking, you know, 124 00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:57.960 in spite of all the crackdowns that have been perpetrated against people 125 00:05:57.960 --> 00:05:59.000 who want more democracy, 126 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:02.900 Malaysians are still fighting strong, you know? 127 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:03.900 They're not letting up. 128 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:05.640 And for that I really respect them. 129 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:07.840 There are so many people back home, you know, 130 00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:10.080 fighting this struggle. 131 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:12.480 And they're standing by their principles. 132 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:17.380 And I guess the very fact that the government has to use its iron fist... 133 00:06:17.380 --> 00:06:19.760 In Malaysia we call it kukubesi, iron claws. 134 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:24.280 The fact that they have to use their iron claws tells me 135 00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:26.000 that they're actually feeling vulnerable. 136 00:06:26.660 --> 00:06:27.460 They're feeling threatened. 137 00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:31.840 So actually what I'm going to do in the next half hour 138 00:06:32.640 --> 00:06:35.620 is just to tell you a little short story, basically, 139 00:06:35.740 --> 00:06:38.940 about what it's like to be living in Malaysia, 140 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:40.740 what it's like being an activist there, 141 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.260 and what hope I kind of see for the future. 142 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:46.740 And if there's anything at all that you can take from the talk, good. 143 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.280 If it resonates for yourself, for your family, 144 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:52.120 for your community, that's great. 145 00:06:55.780 --> 00:06:59.460 Actually, I don't know how many of you came to the talk this morning, 146 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:00.240 the one on reconciliation? 147 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:05.400 Okay, because I'll repeat a little bit of that to do with the ethnic divide. 148 00:07:05.500 --> 00:07:08.900 Because there have been many things wrong in Malaysia, you know? 149 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.280 Some of this have been there for a long, long time. 150 00:07:16.260 --> 00:07:19.280 And in fact, perhaps one of the largest problems we have 151 00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:22.100 is that we sit on major ethnic issues. 152 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:22.880 We have ethnic fault lines. 153 00:07:24.840 --> 00:07:27.160 You know, slight movement and there's chaos. 154 00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:33.960 And these ethnic divisions have been there since the colonial days, you know? 155 00:07:34.020 --> 00:07:37.260 The classic divide and rule policies that we had, you know? 156 00:07:37.320 --> 00:07:39.740 So we had a Malay dominant majority, 157 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.940 and the Indian community was brought to Malaysia as indentured labor 158 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:50.080 for the plantations, and Chinese were brought for the tin mines. 159 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.060 I mean, this is a simplistic history. 160 00:07:52.940 --> 00:07:55.720 It's rather a simple story. 161 00:07:55.980 --> 00:08:00.960 But what it's led to is that you've got the Malay dominant group 162 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:07.220 that were made politically strong but economically weak. 163 00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:09.740 Then you have the Chinese incoming group, 164 00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:13.180 which was made economically strong but politically weak. 165 00:08:13.780 --> 00:08:17.900 So you've got two groups with two different needs, two different realities, 166 00:08:18.180 --> 00:08:21.000 so two different struggles already. 167 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:24.140 Now, this doesn't even include the orang asli, 168 00:08:24.260 --> 00:08:25.760 the indigenous groups in Malaysia. 169 00:08:25.980 --> 00:08:28.280 They're almost as though, I mean, they're not even significant. 170 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:29.520 It's like they're not even there. 171 00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:33.780 So we've got this big division of race. 172 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:38.400 So we've got about 50% Malay, 30% Chinese, about 10% Indians, 173 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:39.900 and we have the others. 174 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:44.140 Who are the others? 175 00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:47.900 I don't know, the Dutch, some Portuguese, some of the mixed. 176 00:08:48.060 --> 00:08:50.100 And I don't know, sometimes maybe it applies to me, 177 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:51.000 because I'm mixed. 178 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:55.940 I'm three-quarters Indian, one-quarter Malay. 179 00:08:56.520 --> 00:08:59.540 And you'd think that would make me Indian, right? 180 00:08:59.700 --> 00:09:01.000 Or whatever I choose to be. 181 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:02.800 But it actually makes me Malay, believe it or not. 182 00:09:04.300 --> 00:09:05.820 So I look Indian. 183 00:09:08.020 --> 00:09:10.240 I'm classified as Malay on the forms. 184 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:15.080 All our forms have got box one, two, three, you know? 185 00:09:15.260 --> 00:09:16.420 Malay, Chinese, Indian. 186 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:18.900 Box number four, you don't pay too much attention, 187 00:09:18.900 --> 00:09:19.620 it's all the others. 188 00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:24.800 So I'm always tempted to put others and say I'm a Mama, 189 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:26.100 which means I'm mixed. 190 00:09:27.660 --> 00:09:30.540 But usually they'll be so upset that I've put Mama. 191 00:09:30.640 --> 00:09:31.220 What are you? 192 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:32.360 Look at my identity card. 193 00:09:32.560 --> 00:09:33.880 We all have identity cards. 194 00:09:34.060 --> 00:09:37.520 And my name alone tells you that I've been classified as Malay. 195 00:09:38.800 --> 00:09:42.100 Whereas I've got a cousin sister who has the same ethnic mix, 196 00:09:42.580 --> 00:09:44.740 but she has been classified as Indian Muslim. 197 00:09:46.060 --> 00:09:47.780 Now I won't tell you the whole story, 198 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:48.880 because I will be here until 3 o'clock. 199 00:09:48.900 --> 00:09:49.120 I'll be here until Thursday. 200 00:09:50.580 --> 00:09:53.140 I mean, we're just sharing with you what it means, 201 00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:54.340 you know, these complexities mean. 202 00:09:54.540 --> 00:09:56.000 But as I was sharing this morning, 203 00:09:56.180 --> 00:09:59.960 it affects our entire being, you know? 204 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.080 I shared another anecdote this morning. 205 00:10:02.180 --> 00:10:04.880 My partner is an Anglo-Saxon man. 206 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.540 And we went to a doctor's surgery in Malaysia. 207 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:12.480 And so they asked him nationality. 208 00:10:13.220 --> 00:10:14.760 Australian, okay, Australian. 209 00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:16.000 Race? 210 00:10:16.580 --> 00:10:17.540 And he said... 211 00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:19.840 I don't understand. 212 00:10:20.060 --> 00:10:20.580 I mean, I don't... 213 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:21.340 We don't use this. 214 00:10:21.460 --> 00:10:23.040 He says, no, no, you must have a race. 215 00:10:23.260 --> 00:10:24.160 What is your race? 216 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:26.040 And he just... 217 00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:28.560 Of course, we like doing this to them and giving them a hard time. 218 00:10:30.580 --> 00:10:33.240 No, it's actually interesting to watch how they flinch, 219 00:10:33.620 --> 00:10:36.300 because it shakes their comfort zone, you know? 220 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:38.580 And so we said, no, no, we don't have this. 221 00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:39.860 And he says, oh, you must have one. 222 00:10:39.900 --> 00:10:40.340 Oh, wait a minute. 223 00:10:40.380 --> 00:10:41.360 Oh, put English then. 224 00:10:42.520 --> 00:10:43.000 You know? 225 00:10:43.060 --> 00:10:44.720 So she put English as his race. 226 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:46.640 Right? 227 00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:48.700 Now, religion is the other. 228 00:10:48.700 --> 00:11:00.820 Another major fault line that divides us quite deeply, because Islam is the national religion 229 00:11:00.820 --> 00:11:04.820 in Malaysia, and it is usually identified with being Malay. 230 00:11:05.380 --> 00:11:09.260 You look at a Malay person, you'll think they are Muslim. 231 00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:10.620 You'll normally assume that. 232 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:17.900 So that is another major division point, you know, because religion actually has a way 233 00:11:17.900 --> 00:11:18.240 of... 234 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:22.920 Of dividing groups into ethnic groups just by virtue of your religion. 235 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:34.020 These divisions are actually used to entrench further the divide and rule, you know? 236 00:11:34.040 --> 00:11:39.080 I was sharing this morning also about how if it's hard enough in this country to talk 237 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:44.800 about reconciliation in a context that is trying to understand it and trying to reconcile, 238 00:11:45.220 --> 00:11:47.960 imagine what it's like in a situation where... 239 00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:54.060 Just maybe the ruling government prefers it to be divided so that it's easier to rule. 240 00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:55.240 You know? 241 00:11:55.280 --> 00:11:59.240 So the work that we are doing always comes up against this resistance. 242 00:12:03.880 --> 00:12:10.680 I think the other problem that makes it all very difficult is even questioning this ethnic 243 00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:12.060 divide is actually seditious. 244 00:12:13.060 --> 00:12:13.580 Right? 245 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.300 We have the laws in Malaysia that are... 246 00:12:17.300 --> 00:12:18.680 You want a country with an act of freedom? 247 00:12:18.680 --> 00:12:19.320 Right. 248 00:12:48.900 --> 00:12:50.700 organized along ethnic lines. 249 00:12:51.900 --> 00:12:52.960 You've got UMNO 250 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:55.180 looking after the Malay needs. 251 00:12:55.460 --> 00:12:56.720 You've got the MCA, 252 00:12:56.800 --> 00:12:58.800 Malaysian Chinese Party Association, 253 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:00.600 looking after the Chinese needs. 254 00:13:00.780 --> 00:13:02.620 You've got MIC looking after the 255 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:04.720 Indian needs. You have some other 256 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.540 parties looking after some other needs. 257 00:13:06.780 --> 00:13:08.740 And they all form this coalition called the 258 00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:10.960 National Front. I know it doesn't ring 259 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:12.660 very nicely here, but 260 00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:14.780 it's called the Barisan National. 261 00:13:14.920 --> 00:13:17.000 The National Front. 262 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:17.660 United Front. 263 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:25.860 So you can see how it's already in our psyche. 264 00:13:27.460 --> 00:13:29.840 Again, I'll share this anecdote this morning because I think it's 265 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:31.740 important to highlight 266 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:33.600 to you exactly what divisions 267 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:35.860 do to us. I was highlighting an example 268 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:37.900 of when a group of us decide to go out 269 00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:38.460 for a meal. 270 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:42.040 Just to go out for something to eat. 271 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:44.020 Forget the vegetarians. 272 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:45.940 I mean, you know, we've got other things to deal with here. 273 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:48.560 We've got 274 00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:50.280 the Muslims, right? 275 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:51.980 So we have to find somewhere where 276 00:13:51.980 --> 00:13:53.680 there's either halal food 277 00:13:55.420 --> 00:13:56.620 or it might be 278 00:13:56.620 --> 00:13:57.380 a seafood place. 279 00:13:58.380 --> 00:14:00.440 Now, it might be that the Muslim 280 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:02.380 person there might not actually like eating in a 281 00:14:02.380 --> 00:14:04.220 seafood place, even if it is seafood, 282 00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:06.180 because it's a Chinese person who's cooking it. 283 00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:07.720 Right? 284 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.560 So then you have to find another place where she might 285 00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:12.460 be happier. Then there might be 286 00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:13.860 somebody else who, you know, 287 00:14:15.020 --> 00:14:16.500 it all becomes really 288 00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:18.400 difficult, which is why we 289 00:14:18.400 --> 00:14:19.660 find the perfect solution to 290 00:14:19.660 --> 00:14:21.160 this. Hawker centers. 291 00:14:23.140 --> 00:14:23.620 Right? 292 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:26.100 The whole range there. You're going to choose whatever 293 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:28.100 you want. But it makes it incredibly difficult 294 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:29.700 because everything you think about. 295 00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:31.120 You want to eat. 296 00:14:31.280 --> 00:14:33.060 You have to think about ethnicity. 297 00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:35.460 You want to go out for a night. 298 00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:36.800 You have to think religion. 299 00:14:37.180 --> 00:14:38.860 I wouldn't be caught dead going to a 300 00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:41.040 pub zone in 301 00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:41.580 Malaysia. 302 00:14:42.420 --> 00:14:44.240 All right. Whether or not I drink 303 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.320 is almost irrelevant now because people 304 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.800 will look and say, isn't that... 305 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:50.460 she's Muslim. What's she doing in a pub zone? 306 00:14:51.660 --> 00:14:54.040 So every act is governed by 307 00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:58.240 the ethnic divide. So this is one major thing we're having to deal with. 308 00:14:59.060 --> 00:15:01.940 Second of all is the laws I was telling you about. 309 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:06.340 Internal Security Act. Remember when I said that the Malay party is called 310 00:15:06.340 --> 00:15:10.100 UMNO? Well, we affectionately call the Internal Security Act 311 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:14.000 the UMNO Internal Security Act. When they're feeling unhappy, 312 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.700 the act comes out. 313 00:15:19.920 --> 00:15:21.900 The act, I mean, I don't know how to 314 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.320 express how 315 00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:30.060 scary it is, you know, having this act all over 316 00:15:30.060 --> 00:15:33.140 your head all the time. I don't know how to explain it. Over the 317 00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:37.720 40 years, 25,000 people have been 318 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.940 detained under this act. It's as though somebody walked in now, 319 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.980 picked you up, and said, come with us. 320 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.920 And you say, well, what is your warrant of arrest? No need warrant of arrest. What evidence 321 00:15:47.920 --> 00:15:51.900 have you got against me? No, no, we don't need evidence under this act. We think you're a threat 322 00:15:51.900 --> 00:15:54.300 to national security. Please come with us. Boom. 323 00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:58.660 Right? There's no need for evidence. 324 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.940 It really irks me when the Prime Minister says, yes, yes, we like this act 325 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:05.120 because we don't need evidence. 326 00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:11.300 You know, what kind of, you know, banana logic is this? 327 00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:13.920 You know, but he likes this act because you don't need, 328 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.580 you don't need much to put away people who don't agree with you. 329 00:16:17.380 --> 00:16:21.960 And this is the law that my friend was arrested under last week. And many, many more. 330 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:25.740 You know? Freedom of expression. 331 00:16:26.420 --> 00:16:29.320 We've got the Printing Presses and Publications Act. 332 00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:33.900 I told you, lots of acts, yeah? So we've got a Printing Presses 333 00:16:33.900 --> 00:16:37.780 and Publications Act. Publications, like newspapers, 334 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.820 have to apply for permits every year. Now, if you knew that 335 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:43.920 your permit was going to be taken, can be taken away, 336 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.480 what would you do? You'd self-censor. 337 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:51.860 What a perfect system. You don't have to go there and 338 00:16:51.860 --> 00:16:56.100 beat them up. They self-censor themselves. Because they want the permit the next year. 339 00:16:57.560 --> 00:16:59.980 I have actually been pulled up for questioning under this 340 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:03.000 act, you know? And all because I made a statement in the paper 341 00:17:03.780 --> 00:17:07.440 about the fact that police officers weren't taking 342 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:10.820 reports seriously from battered women. 343 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.900 You know, when women go there and want to make their 344 00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:16.620 reports, they're not taking the reports. I made some statement 345 00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:19.020 about that, and for that I got grilled for four hours. 346 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.760 And it would have got me charged under this act. 347 00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:26.920 The various others, I told you about the Sedition Act, 348 00:17:28.280 --> 00:17:32.040 defamation charges, and of course I mentioned the 349 00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:35.560 ever-present special branch, the secret police, you know? 350 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.440 You live in this fear that your phone is being tapped. 351 00:17:39.080 --> 00:17:43.740 You know? You live in the fear, I, there might be someone here. 352 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:50.100 Right? Someone lurking behind a tree. Someone listening to your talk at your, at a coffee shop. 353 00:17:52.020 --> 00:17:56.020 And, and quite often they do come up. They're getting braver, and so are we. 354 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.860 Now we point the mic and say, hey, I choose the special branch from such-and-such. 355 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:05.020 Because we figure that's the only way of dealing with them is to blow their cover. 356 00:18:05.320 --> 00:18:08.420 But it's not easy because you take risks doing that as well. 357 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:13.880 That was freedom of expression, you know? Freedom of assembly. You need a police officer. 358 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:22.260 police permit to organize a gathering. You have to get a police permit 14 days before a public 359 00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:30.440 assembly is held. Under the Police Act, a gathering of three or more people is technically illegal. 360 00:18:31.780 --> 00:18:38.480 Now that makes your average family illegal. How they figure this is really quite amazing. So 361 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:44.940 that tells you that it's actually arbitrary. What gets declared an illegal assembly is arbitrary. 362 00:18:45.260 --> 00:18:52.640 So we find ways of working with what little space we have. So we had one march once where the two 363 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:58.140 of us walked together holding a lantern. It was during a Chinese Lantern Festival. And then two 364 00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:04.320 meters ahead, another two with another lantern. And so actually they made us become very creative 365 00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:08.460 because you've got this long line of two people walking. 366 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.560 Two by two holding lanterns. 367 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:20.000 We also have a University and University Colleges Act. And by the time I'm through with the act, 368 00:19:20.040 --> 00:19:23.760 you're going to be so bored because there are so many acts. We've got the Police Act, the 369 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:31.880 UECA Act. A lot of people are arrested for attending rallies. And even though the process 370 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:37.560 is that you have to be brought before a magistrate within 24 hours, it doesn't happen. Freedom of 371 00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:40.520 Association is also restricted by several other acts. 372 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:49.720 And this is the other one. Students will get told don't get involved. Trade unionists 373 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:58.100 will get told don't get involved. Teachers get told don't get involved. Lecturers, people in the other 374 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:04.800 various other professions get told don't get involved. Finally, who's going to get involved? 375 00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:08.260 If all of us are told not to get involved, then who? 376 00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:11.140 All the unemployed and all the business people. 377 00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:12.680 That's who will be left. 378 00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:19.480 And given this situation, it's actually quite hard to seek justice as well because a lot 379 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.780 of the civil institutions are not functioning very well. 380 00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:30.080 Name me one institution that you have here that we don't. 381 00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:33.320 So we have all the markings of a democracy. 382 00:20:34.060 --> 00:20:36.280 We've got the ACA, the Anti-Corruption Agency. 383 00:20:36.340 --> 00:20:37.440 We've got the Elections Commission. 384 00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:38.360 We've got the judiciary. 385 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.080 We've got, you know, name it, we've got it. 386 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:45.340 So what you have is so precious, and it's so easy to lose it. 387 00:20:45.380 --> 00:20:46.060 It's so fragile. 388 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:51.300 Our parliament is made up of two-thirds majority of the ruling coalition, which means if they 389 00:20:51.300 --> 00:20:53.820 want to change something in the constitution, it happens like that. 390 00:20:55.540 --> 00:21:01.900 So there's a loss of confidence in the judiciary, loss of faith in the police. 391 00:21:03.380 --> 00:21:08.280 Just to give you an example of what it's like trying to organize something, we had a water 392 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:08.740 crisis. 393 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.080 We live in the tropics and we had a water crisis. 394 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:20.900 So we tried to organize a public forum, or rather the Consumers Association tried to 395 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:26.800 organize a public forum to discuss water, a very basic fundamental need, you know. 396 00:21:27.340 --> 00:21:30.180 So the police gave the permit. 397 00:21:30.760 --> 00:21:31.880 But when it came to the police, they didn't give the permit. 398 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:35.880 They realized that there were going to be too many people discussing this issue, revoked 399 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:36.980 the permit at the last moment. 400 00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:42.260 And just to make sure there weren't any Klingons, they brought in the water cannons. 401 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:45.340