WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.820 Welcome ladies and gentlemen to this session in the Festival of Ideas and thank you for being part of the festival. 2 00:00:06.680 --> 00:00:12.960 The theme is holy water. Water, it's what we're made of mostly, so we're told. 3 00:00:13.340 --> 00:00:18.820 It's what we thirst for by definition and equally by definition it's what quenches our thirst. 4 00:00:20.300 --> 00:00:26.220 It's cleansing, it's life, it's death, it's birth. 5 00:00:26.220 --> 00:00:33.360 It's little wonder that it attracts the sense of the holy and is such a feature of most religious traditions. 6 00:00:34.360 --> 00:00:45.960 In the discussion this afternoon we have four contributors, Mary White, Jackie Huggins, Sulek Sivaraksa and Tim Bonihardy. 7 00:00:46.860 --> 00:00:51.040 Now you'll find detailed biographies of each of these in the festival book 8 00:00:51.040 --> 00:00:55.340 and so I won't hold up the thinking ideas time with further introductions. 9 00:00:56.220 --> 00:01:00.540 But I ask you to welcome the first of our speakers, Mary White. 10 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:10.180 Well good afternoon everyone, I'm delighted to be here with you. 11 00:01:11.300 --> 00:01:16.800 I'm going to start by saying that there's a quotation from Lynn Margulis 12 00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:25.520 that life is animated water simply because living things are 60 to 80% water. 13 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:30.620 And it is the thing that is the most important for life generally. 14 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:36.500 Further than that, the biosphere, the living outer zone of planet Earth, 15 00:01:37.220 --> 00:01:40.400 is a self-regulating, self-perpetuating entity. 16 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:43.880 So, by definition, it is alive. 17 00:01:44.540 --> 00:01:47.760 And the Earth can be seen as a huge living organism 18 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.920 with all its organs and systems in a state of dynamic equilibrium. 19 00:01:53.060 --> 00:01:55.740 Its major organs are the living soil, 20 00:01:56.220 --> 00:01:58.800 the weathering zone, the weathered zone beneath it, 21 00:01:59.500 --> 00:02:01.840 the atmosphere and the hydrosphere. 22 00:02:02.720 --> 00:02:03.640 All water dependent. 23 00:02:05.300 --> 00:02:08.740 And more than that, when you really get down to the nitty gritty, 24 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:13.900 the Earth's surface functions and is transformed by life, 25 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.480 fueled by photosynthesis of all things, 26 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.700 because green living matter from plants, algae, cyanobacteria, 27 00:02:22.700 --> 00:02:26.020 drive the processes supporting life as we know it. 28 00:02:26.720 --> 00:02:29.160 And part of the photosynthetic process 29 00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:31.680 is the splitting of the water molecule 30 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.700 to obtain the hydrogen needed for living protein synthesis 31 00:02:35.700 --> 00:02:37.920 and liberating oxygen 32 00:02:37.920 --> 00:02:41.820 so that we and all the other aerobic things on Earth can breathe. 33 00:02:44.060 --> 00:02:46.240 As we are talking about holy water, 34 00:02:46.340 --> 00:02:49.460 and I'm in the company of people of many faiths, 35 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.880 I perhaps should admit that I'm essentially a Gaian. 36 00:02:53.600 --> 00:02:55.080 I'm content to be positive, 37 00:02:56.220 --> 00:02:57.600 part of the living biosphere, 38 00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:02.640 an infinitely unimportant speck in the continuum of life. 39 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:08.380 For me, the act of creation was the origin of the first living cell 40 00:03:08.380 --> 00:03:11.240 almost four billion years ago, 41 00:03:12.200 --> 00:03:17.160 the ancestral bacterium that is mine, my and your ancestor. 42 00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:21.980 That original cell evolved through endosymbiosis 43 00:03:21.980 --> 00:03:24.740 to form the sort of living cells that came together 44 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:26.820 to form the multicellular creatures 45 00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:31.220 that in turn evolved over two or more billion years 46 00:03:31.220 --> 00:03:35.700 to produce the living organisms of the modern world, including us. 47 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:41.860 Some of you will know that I'm fascinated by the big picture that emerges 48 00:03:41.860 --> 00:03:45.900 when you assemble information from all the different disciplines 49 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:50.980 and see life and the environment changing through geological time. 50 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:53.580 Researching the biosphere, 51 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:57.040 as I've done recently through four billion years, 52 00:03:57.340 --> 00:04:00.840 has shown me the extent of the greatest of all mysteries, 53 00:04:01.140 --> 00:04:02.400 the miracle of life, 54 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.820 which is totally beyond human comprehension 55 00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:08.400 and we can only glimpse some of the wonders. 56 00:04:10.180 --> 00:04:13.480 Water, when one thinks about it, is an amazing substance 57 00:04:13.480 --> 00:04:17.980 with all the qualities that make it and the world it dominates life-friendly. 58 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.880 The water cycle carrying hydrogen and oxygen 59 00:04:23.580 --> 00:04:26.280 is the most rapid circulation within the biosphere. 60 00:04:26.500 --> 00:04:30.340 It's a straightforward physical process involving evaporation, 61 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.040 transport through the atmosphere, precipitation and flow to the ocean, 62 00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:37.540 or mainly to the ocean. 63 00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:41.240 With more than 97% of water in the oceans, 64 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.180 90% of evaporation is from the sea 65 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:49.220 and half the solar energy absorbed at the surface of the earth 66 00:04:49.220 --> 00:04:53.480 is transferred to the atmosphere through evaporation and condensation. 67 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:59.040 Water can absorb a relatively large amount of heat before its temperature rises. 68 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.300 It has five times the capacity of common rocks in this regard. 69 00:05:03.700 --> 00:05:07.740 So, while the earth's solid surfaces heat and cool rapidly, 70 00:05:07.780 --> 00:05:10.240 producing a wide range of temperature extremes, 71 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.500 water bodies gain and lose heat more slowly, 72 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.020 making them excellent temperature regulators 73 00:05:16.020 --> 00:05:18.240 and preventing large temperature swings. 74 00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:21.820 Water only vaporizes at high temperature 75 00:05:21.820 --> 00:05:23.560 and must absorb a great deal of heat before it rises. 76 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.940 It's a good medium for transporting latent heat in vapor 77 00:05:30.940 --> 00:05:34.920 and for energizing wind flow and other atmospheric processes. 78 00:05:35.960 --> 00:05:38.140 Because it's a good conductor of heat, 79 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.040 its role in determining ocean eddies and currents 80 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.880 and thus global climate is paramount. 81 00:05:44.740 --> 00:05:46.880 No other liquid would be as good a moderator, 82 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:50.800 keeping conditions optimal for life in true Gaian fashion. 83 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:53.420 Its heat conductive, 84 00:05:53.580 --> 00:05:56.660 conducting ability is important in living cells. 85 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:02.080 Water has the highest surface tension of all liquids except mercury, 86 00:06:02.340 --> 00:06:05.060 and this is important in physiology of the cell, 87 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:10.040 controlling surface phenomena, drop formation, capillarity, and all those things. 88 00:06:10.660 --> 00:06:14.360 The dissolving power of water is greater than that of any other liquid. 89 00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:18.500 More substances in greater quantities are soluble in water, 90 00:06:18.620 --> 00:06:22.700 which is important in both physical and biological processes. 91 00:06:24.460 --> 00:06:25.900 And because water is transparent, 92 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:30.980 light can penetrate a considerable distance into water bodies, allowing photosynthesis. 93 00:06:31.760 --> 00:06:37.160 The ability of water to absorb radiant energy results in water vapor being responsible 94 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:43.860 for about 75% of the natural greenhouse warming that protects Earth from the cold of space. 95 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:49.060 And water in the solid state, as ice, is less dense than liquid, 96 00:06:49.140 --> 00:06:52.500 and this is important in partly frozen lakes and seas, 97 00:06:52.500 --> 00:06:56.340 and of course water is also very important in weathering. 98 00:06:57.100 --> 00:07:00.260 The structure of water's polar molecule, rare in liquids, 99 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.680 is important in many reactions and in rock weathering. 100 00:07:04.900 --> 00:07:09.660 In the water molecule, two positively charged hydrogen atoms are arranged at one end, 101 00:07:09.840 --> 00:07:15.080 and the negatively charged oxygen atom at the other, resulting in a polar liquid. 102 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:21.520 The positively charged end is attracted to the negatively charged surface of clay or other minerals, 103 00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:24.500 and other water molecules line up similarly, 104 00:07:24.820 --> 00:07:28.720 joining negative and positive ends, like a lot of tiny bar magnets. 105 00:07:29.320 --> 00:07:34.020 This forms a layer of ordered water with increased molecular pressure. 106 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:39.680 Water is almost exclusively the carrier of products of weathering and recycling. 107 00:07:40.260 --> 00:07:43.600 The water table zone is alive with microorganisms, 108 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.500 helping with the breakdown of the solid lithosphere below. 109 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.500 And the soil above that feeds, um, um, the soil above feeds essential essential essential essential 110 00:07:51.500 --> 00:07:54.160 that feeds the plants that photosynthesize, 111 00:07:54.180 --> 00:07:57.480 is alive with microorganisms and other living things. 112 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:01.340 And water, again, is the carrier of metabolic products and nutrients 113 00:08:01.340 --> 00:08:06.220 in the microscopic pathways between the grains of sand and clay. 114 00:08:07.200 --> 00:08:11.700 And water is the carrier of nutrients and metabolic products in living things. 115 00:08:12.100 --> 00:08:19.900 And thus the concept of the hydrosphere can be expanded to include the whole biosphere. 116 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:25.780 I've told the stories of life starting in the water and making its way onto the land 117 00:08:25.780 --> 00:08:29.980 only in geologically comparatively recent times, 118 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:34.480 the last 425 million years, in several of my books. 119 00:08:35.020 --> 00:08:39.300 Early development of land plants from algal ancestors involved changes 120 00:08:39.300 --> 00:08:42.740 to overcome the disability of having a water ancestry. 121 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:48.940 Evolution of vertebrates from a fish ancestor, and our ancestor was a fish, 122 00:08:48.940 --> 00:08:50.900 involved parallel changes. 123 00:08:51.880 --> 00:08:58.060 So, if life is holy, water is holy, and this living blue planet spinning 124 00:08:58.060 --> 00:09:01.980 in space owes its life, as we do, to water. 125 00:09:02.620 --> 00:09:03.440 Thank you. 126 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:12.100 Thank you, Mary. 127 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:17.260 I'll take this moment just to invite you, if you have mobile phones, to switch them off. 128 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:18.920 Thank you. 129 00:09:18.940 --> 00:09:19.120 Thank you, and I'll be sure to do that in the future. 130 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:23.100 If life is holy, water is holy. 131 00:09:23.660 --> 00:09:26.480 Our second speaker is Jackie Huggins. 132 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:27.600 Jackie? 133 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:41.520 Thank you, and before I begin, as always, I pay my respects to the Kaurna people of this nation. 134 00:09:42.880 --> 00:09:47.240 When I was asked to speak on holy water, I thought, holy smoke. 135 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:52.500 And other adequately described superlatives. 136 00:09:53.480 --> 00:10:00.580 I know that I was baptised as a Church of England young child. 137 00:10:01.300 --> 00:10:11.080 I'm not orthodoxically Christian or religious, but I noted that Mary and I have a spiritual commonality, 138 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:17.940 and that is that we believe in the earth, its sustenance, and what it can bring to us. 139 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:18.920 So, I was very glad to be here. 140 00:10:18.920 --> 00:10:23.340 I'm very glad to bump into her this morning and talk about it over a cup of coffee, 141 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:30.180 about a spirituality, I think, that is so shared but enjoyed as well. 142 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:36.500 So, in my search for the meaning and the approach of holy water, 143 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:42.560 I thought I would tackle it in this way and speak about my mother's country, 144 00:10:43.540 --> 00:10:45.900 where she was a freshwater person. 145 00:10:47.180 --> 00:10:48.900 My mother, Rita, is a freshwater person. 146 00:10:48.900 --> 00:10:50.180 Her mother is from Kumuldangi. 147 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:55.640 Its European name is Carnarvon Gorge in central Queensland. 148 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:02.260 I'm very glad to say, although that I don't have any native title responsibilities 149 00:11:02.260 --> 00:11:08.800 or titles or ties to that country, because it's a national park, 150 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:13.620 and of course, indigenous people can't hold title to national parks, 151 00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:18.640 one very good thing is that it is kept in the pristine, 152 00:11:18.900 --> 00:11:23.940 modern way that it has been for many thousands and thousands of years. 153 00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:27.460 So, for that, I can be very grateful. 154 00:11:28.260 --> 00:11:31.280 For those that don't know Carnarvon Gorge, 155 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:38.860 it's about 600 miles, kilometres, actually, west of Rockhampton, central Queensland. 156 00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:46.480 It's a beautiful, beautiful place, not because my ancestors come from there, 157 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:48.420 but because it is. 158 00:11:48.900 --> 00:11:50.800 It's a sandstone landscape. 159 00:11:51.880 --> 00:11:54.640 It has a beautiful presence about it. 160 00:11:55.560 --> 00:12:01.100 You come in out of nothing into an oasis in the desert. 161 00:12:02.300 --> 00:12:07.560 And for me, of course, it has been my spiritual oasis ever since I was born. 162 00:12:09.660 --> 00:12:14.680 Now, it's a drought-stricken area around that central Queensland landscape, 163 00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:17.540 but within Carnarvon Gorge, 164 00:12:17.540 --> 00:12:22.060 there is a myriad of creeks and crossings, 165 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:28.920 and an abundance of placed stones where people can walk through 166 00:12:28.920 --> 00:12:34.920 and walk up to a place called, strangely enough, Cathedral Place. 167 00:12:37.520 --> 00:12:41.420 In the early days, women, of course, were our midwives, 168 00:12:41.540 --> 00:12:46.660 and they would wash the babies in the streams nearby. 169 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:50.580 And they would take them to the 170 00:13:04.260 --> 00:13:06.260 ! 171 00:13:17.540 --> 00:13:22.340 Aboriginal women would place leaves, something soft there, 172 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.660 and carry the babies around to be close to them. 173 00:13:28.140 --> 00:13:35.260 And apart from the human touch, holy water is the first sign of life. 174 00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:40.140 Water brang my people's survival and sustenance. 175 00:13:40.540 --> 00:13:45.380 However, the landscape has been irrevocably changed and devastated. 176 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:47.520 That once the water was washed away, the water was washed away. 177 00:13:47.520 --> 00:13:53.600 And once there was an abundance, now waterholes, creeks, and rivers have dried up. 178 00:13:54.680 --> 00:14:00.700 This, of course, creates enormous hygiene and health problems, in particular, for desert people. 179 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:07.180 Access to running water is sometimes not possible, sewage systems get blocked, 180 00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:15.080 and chaos follows, manifests itself in the abysmal health statistics of a Fourth World country. 181 00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:21.020 and we know Aboriginal people suffer the worst health in our affluent society. 182 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.300 In terms of the dollars spent on Aboriginal health, 183 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:29.240 it is nowhere near enough to make amends. 184 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:32.120 Back to my mother, Rita. 185 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.200 She was at the age of five, 186 00:14:36.900 --> 00:14:41.060 rounded up on the back of a cattle truck along with her people 187 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:44.640 and sent to Sherburg Aboriginal Mission in Queensland. 188 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:51.200 The most vivid memory that she has of when she arrived there 189 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:58.420 was that the place was a place of dust and a place that was so dry. 190 00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:03.440 She couldn't see any creeks or rivers or streams 191 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:06.080 that were once part of her homeland. 192 00:15:07.180 --> 00:15:12.660 So she always pined for the sensation of water in her life 193 00:15:12.660 --> 00:15:15.060 but never really overcame it. 194 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:16.740 She never really overcame the fact that she couldn't get any. 195 00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:21.120 At Sherburg was a little creek called Baramba Creek 196 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:27.420 and Baramba Creek was then a creek that was so crystal clear 197 00:15:27.420 --> 00:15:30.180 one could swim within the creek 198 00:15:30.180 --> 00:15:35.120 and that's where the kids would resort to after school or on the weekends. 199 00:15:36.300 --> 00:15:40.740 Sadly, last week I went back to that creek, back to Sherburg, 200 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.300 to open a new library there. 201 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:45.100 It's a little creek in the middle of the school 202 00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:50.340 and the little creek is now polluted beyond repair. 203 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:57.320 It has substances of green algae and other forms of rubbish floating along it 204 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:00.480 and I dare say none of the children swim there anymore. 205 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:07.420 The old people couldn't believe how dry Sherburg was 206 00:16:08.180 --> 00:16:10.020 and of course still is. 207 00:16:11.640 --> 00:16:13.620 With the true history of our country, 208 00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:15.060 we know that people... 209 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.620 people had a habit of putting our people on wasted land, 210 00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:20.640 on barren land that nobody else wanted. 211 00:16:21.760 --> 00:16:25.080 On the other hand, my father was a saltwater person 212 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:26.500 from Eyre, North Queensland. 213 00:16:27.380 --> 00:16:28.800 He loved the sea. 214 00:16:29.640 --> 00:16:30.500 My mother didn't. 215 00:16:31.340 --> 00:16:36.880 He was also the first black lifesaver that I can recall. 216 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:44.480 They say that fresh and saltwater people should not marry. 217 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.220 That they're the wrong skin in terms of kinship. 218 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:53.040 But I know of many happy, fresh and saltwater marriages 219 00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:55.860 like my mother's and my father's were. 220 00:16:57.740 --> 00:17:00.460 My father lived a more western type of existence 221 00:17:00.460 --> 00:17:02.920 and remained a free man, 222 00:17:03.660 --> 00:17:07.320 going off to war and excelling at football and athletics. 223 00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:12.060 He was also the first Aboriginal man to work in a post office. 224 00:17:13.320 --> 00:17:14.880 But his love of the sea, 225 00:17:15.080 --> 00:17:17.360 and certainly love of the land, 226 00:17:18.080 --> 00:17:20.220 is something that stayed with him 227 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:24.200 in his short life of 38 years of age. 228 00:17:26.180 --> 00:17:27.840 Just quite recently, 229 00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:34.000 I had the opportunity to judge Reconciliation Place in Canberra. 230 00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:38.140 Now, if there is one thing that the present government 231 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:40.700 has given to us in terms of reconciliation, 232 00:17:41.560 --> 00:17:45.060 it's that we have a lasting and living relationship 233 00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:45.440 with the people of the land. 234 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.440 And that is the memory and monument that will go on 235 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.340 for future generations to see. 236 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:57.620 Of course, within the design construct, 237 00:17:57.780 --> 00:18:00.640 elements of water were absolutely essential. 238 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.320 The flowing peace, the flowing purity, 239 00:18:06.120 --> 00:18:09.020 and the flowing hope of things to come. 240 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:15.060 In the design, we made sure that we could see the water, 241 00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:16.500 the waters of Lake Burley Griffin, 242 00:18:16.660 --> 00:18:20.820 and it's between, it crosses between the High Court, 243 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.560 the High Court and the National Library. 244 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:29.500 So it's an obvious pathway for people who are visiting that fair city. 245 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:34.360 And we wanted it to show that water and land 246 00:18:35.060 --> 00:18:39.660 were absolute essentials in terms of what we needed to see. 247 00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:44.160 There is a raging debate at the moment going on 248 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.260 in terms of sea rights for the Torres Strait Islanders 249 00:18:47.260 --> 00:18:50.160 because they know that their waters, their fish, 250 00:18:51.080 --> 00:18:55.020 and the animals within it are precious. 251 00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:59.900 There's also a raging debate going on about the Boobera Lagoon 252 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:03.420 and Stradbroke Island in terms of the speedboats 253 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:06.660 and the cultural issues that come to play 254 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:11.260 in terms of many of those places being sacred places 255 00:19:11.260 --> 00:19:13.400 that shouldn't be harmed, 256 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:14.980 that shouldn't be developed, 257 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:23.560 that shouldn't have footprints crossing all over Mother Earth or Mother Sea. 258 00:19:26.580 --> 00:19:31.120 Mary spoke about our ancestor was a fish. 259 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:37.500 I'm not really sure that fits within my spirituality, Mary, 260 00:19:37.660 --> 00:19:40.500 but I respect your opinion for it. 261 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:41.400 . 262 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:47.860 My final message is that yes, water is holy to all of us. 263 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:51.480 Please respect it and please respect the land. 264 00:19:51.700 --> 00:19:52.520 Thank you. 265 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:55.220 . 266 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:06.560 Please welcome for a third perspective on water Sulak Sivaraksa. 267 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:07.900 . 268 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:08.720 . 269 00:20:09.320 --> 00:20:10.060 . 270 00:20:10.060 --> 00:20:11.000 . 271 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:15.800 . 272 00:20:23.820 --> 00:20:23.940 . 273 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:23.980 . 274 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:24.000 . 275 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.020 . 276 00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:24.040 . 277 00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:24.220 . 278 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:34.040 . 279 00:20:38.120 --> 00:20:38.240 . 280 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:38.500 . 281 00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:38.680 . 282 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:38.740 . 283 00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:38.760 . 284 00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:38.780 . 285 00:20:38.780 --> 00:20:38.800 . 286 00:20:38.800 --> 00:20:38.820 . 287 00:20:38.820 --> 00:20:38.860 . 288 00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:40.260 . 289 00:20:40.260 --> 00:20:40.320 . 290 00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:43.340 a human being. It is wrong to harm a human being. 291 00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:46.300 It is also wrong to harm water, 292 00:20:47.780 --> 00:20:50.140 to kill water by polluting water. 293 00:20:51.520 --> 00:20:55.180 But of course in real life sometimes we have to pollute water. 294 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.200 In the Thai tradition every year 295 00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:03.720 we have a ceremony asking for forgiveness from water 296 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:08.080 because we also call water mother. 297 00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:10.640 We call earth also mother. 298 00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:13.720 We call mountain father. 299 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:17.680 So I think if we are related to nature like that 300 00:21:19.540 --> 00:21:21.920 everything is sacred and holy. 301 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:27.180 Mahatma Gandhi never used more than five buckets of water 302 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.400 to clean himself although he lived next to the river. 303 00:21:33.540 --> 00:21:34.720 Because with that 304 00:21:36.100 --> 00:21:37.220 you see 305 00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:37.860 if 306 00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:38.100 everybody 307 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:40.840 understand about the need 308 00:21:40.840 --> 00:21:44.060 and regard everything we use as holy 309 00:21:44.060 --> 00:21:46.140 then I think there will be sufficient 310 00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:49.540 thing for everyone in the world. 311 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.120 But if we think water is only a community 312 00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:55.240 to be used any way we like 313 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.860 I think there will be scarcity of water. 314 00:21:59.840 --> 00:22:01.440 From the Hindu point of view 315 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.820 some rivers in India are more sacred than others, 316 00:22:05.020 --> 00:22:06.140 more holy than others. 317 00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:08.660 And if you look carefully 318 00:22:08.660 --> 00:22:12.780 you can see the more sacred, the more holy, 319 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:16.540 the more beautiful that area is. 320 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:21.780 For instance most rivers in India 321 00:22:21.780 --> 00:22:26.520 if you have a bath in the river seven times 322 00:22:27.320 --> 00:22:29.120 you can purify yourself. 323 00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:31.920 With Mother Ganga 324 00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:35.180 you only have a bath once 325 00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:36.120 you can purify yourself. 326 00:22:36.120 --> 00:22:40.440 Because Mother Ganga came right from Himalaya. 327 00:22:41.260 --> 00:22:43.680 And Himalaya is supposed to be the abode of the gods 328 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:47.040 and Himalaya itself is so sacred. 329 00:22:49.300 --> 00:22:52.080 But Western idea is that how to conquer Himalaya 330 00:22:52.080 --> 00:22:53.120 by climbing up there. 331 00:22:54.800 --> 00:22:56.900 And now the Chinese want to do similarly 332 00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:00.100 with the holy mountain in Tibet 333 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:02.700 which has never been climbed up. 334 00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:06.100 That depends on your attitude. 335 00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:10.560 If you understand things to be sacred, to be holy 336 00:23:11.100 --> 00:23:14.000 then your attitude would be that we should be humble. 337 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:16.460 We should live with water, 338 00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:18.760 we should live with natural environment 339 00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:21.920 harmoniously, holistically. 340 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.000 As I said the Mother Ganga 341 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.100 you only need to have a bath once 342 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:29.620 to be purified. 343 00:23:31.180 --> 00:23:34.240 But Namadha, the holy Namadha 344 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:35.940 you only have a look at it. 345 00:23:36.100 --> 00:23:39.880 And your sin will be away. 346 00:23:43.100 --> 00:23:43.900 You will be purified. 347 00:23:46.660 --> 00:23:48.940 Strangely enough, only one English Quaker 348 00:23:48.940 --> 00:23:50.720 who understood this 349 00:23:52.060 --> 00:23:53.720 towards the end of the last century 350 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:55.500 there is one English Quaker who lived 351 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:57.960 along the Namadha River. 352 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:05.240 And he found so many rushi, so many holy people around there. 353 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:08.940 And yet this Namadha River 354 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:11.140 is now being destroyed by the World Bank 355 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:11.980 and the Indian government. 356 00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:15.440 Because one, you don't believe in holiness. 357 00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:18.000 You believe in sacredness. 358 00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:21.340 You feel that you could overcome everything. 359 00:24:21.860 --> 00:24:24.000 They made so many dams 360 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:26.540 and destroyed so much of the environment. 361 00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:28.800 And people suffer so much. 362 00:24:29.600 --> 00:24:31.360 Since the Indian independence 363 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.540 people suffer much more. 364 00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:38.300 Than under the British Empire. 365 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.260 And this has not been accounted for. 366 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:42.060 Why? 367 00:24:42.260 --> 00:24:44.620 Because we lost the idea of holiness. 368 00:24:46.100 --> 00:24:49.320 At least the World Bank has now realized 369 00:24:49.320 --> 00:24:50.860 that their mistake 370 00:24:50.860 --> 00:24:54.140 to overcome nature, to build more dams 371 00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:55.020 is more destruction. 372 00:24:55.620 --> 00:24:56.840 However, on this issue 373 00:24:56.840 --> 00:24:59.460 I will speak at my next talk 374 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:01.380 on the Pakmun Dam in my country. 375 00:25:02.860 --> 00:25:04.560 But from the Buddhist point of view 376 00:25:06.740 --> 00:25:10.300 water basically can help us 377 00:25:10.300 --> 00:25:10.980 cure thirst. 378 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.240 And thirst for human beings 379 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.180 the root cause of thirst is greed, 380 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:22.180 hatred and delusion. 381 00:25:24.120 --> 00:25:26.960 And to use water to cure thirst 382 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.200 means that how we can overcome greed, 383 00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:30.040 hatred and delusion. 384 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.640 Greed of course now manifested by 385 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:34.540 economism, 386 00:25:35.580 --> 00:25:36.100 consumerism. 387 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:40.140 Hatred now manifested in 388 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:41.560 big powers, 389 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:44.400 armaments, 390 00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:46.860 and most governments. 391 00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:50.040 And of course delusion. 392 00:25:50.740 --> 00:25:52.380 Perhaps we may not realize that 393 00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:55.200 manifested in modern education 394 00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:57.200 which makes people clever. 395 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.680 But cannot help them to become ethical or good. 396 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:03.200 So from the Buddhist point of view 397 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:04.140 if you want to use water, 398 00:26:04.540 --> 00:26:04.820 skillfully, 399 00:26:06.040 --> 00:26:07.620 we must understand ourselves. 400 00:26:08.020 --> 00:26:09.040 Because in ourselves 401 00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:10.740