WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.140 I'm Tory Shepherd. Welcome to another session at the Adelaide Festival of Ideas. Today we're 2 00:00:04.140 --> 00:00:08.060 going to talk about some of the more positive, maybe some of the learnings, I hate that word, 3 00:00:08.200 --> 00:00:15.340 but I kind of had to use it, from the pandemic. Joining us via Zoom is Dr Norman Swan. Norman, 4 00:00:15.420 --> 00:00:19.780 do we have you? There he is. Twitter has... Hi. 5 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.040 Twitter... Oh, hold on, you're going to get applause before you even talk. Go. 6 00:00:23.040 --> 00:00:32.260 Go. Norman's the host of RN's Health Report. I'm sure many of you have every day, possibly, 7 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:37.180 during this pandemic been listening to the Corotacast podcast. He's all over the ABC. 8 00:00:37.480 --> 00:00:42.360 He's a Gold Walkley winner. Twitter reported reliably that he is not, in fact, a swan. 9 00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:50.980 No. No. And we're very happy to have him join us today. We've also got the Honourable Sandy 10 00:00:50.980 --> 00:00:52.920 for sure, the Lady Mayor... Do they say Mayor? 11 00:00:53.040 --> 00:00:54.280 Yes, they don't, do they? I'm the Lord Mayor. 12 00:00:54.300 --> 00:00:59.160 I'm so glad. Of Adelaide. She's a former Churchill Fellow, which we've just been discussing. 13 00:00:59.580 --> 00:01:04.000 Councillor, Deputy Lord Mayor, very involved in the festival side of Adelaide, I would say, 14 00:01:04.080 --> 00:01:10.300 and the vibrancy of the city through the Fringe and the festival and many other events. And Andy 15 00:01:10.300 --> 00:01:15.280 Keogh, who is now the Managing Director at Saab Australia. I first met you when you were working 16 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:21.940 for Defence SA. And you're a former submariner. And I reckon submariners and astronauts all seem 17 00:01:21.940 --> 00:01:22.760 to have like a... 18 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.980 Prede-natural calmness about them. That's how I think about you. 19 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.940 Not at home. You haven't seen me around home with children and animals. 20 00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:37.060 You can keep up the facade for the next hour. Lots of involvement in Defence, particularly 21 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:41.340 through the negotiation of some of those big contracts that we've seen here in South 22 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:47.900 Australia recently. So, I wanted to start by asking all of you a bit of your personal 23 00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:53.020 experience of the pandemic, about what's changed for you and what was the biggest change you've had? 24 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:55.500 And what was good about what changed? Andy, do you want to kick it off? 25 00:01:55.940 --> 00:02:03.440 Thank you. So, again, it's personal reflections. For me, prior to the pandemic, I was travelling 26 00:02:03.440 --> 00:02:08.400 about 130 days a year on average the last two years. A lot of travel interstate, a lot of travel 27 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:13.480 overseas. The headquarters for Saab is back in Sweden, in Stockholm. So, a lot of travel back 28 00:02:13.480 --> 00:02:20.380 there. So, overnight, it basically stopped. So, suddenly, I found all of this time that would 29 00:02:20.380 --> 00:02:22.860 normally be up in the air or at airports. 30 00:02:23.040 --> 00:02:29.120 I was very used to working in airports and connecting on Wi-Fi and doing my work as I 31 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:35.400 travel and fly. And suddenly, it all stopped. And I was struck, I think, you know, my reflection 32 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:40.980 was around walking the streets, taking my dog for a walk, which usually my wife does by herself, 33 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.420 and I could accompany her on that, how quiet the streets were during that first shutdown, 34 00:02:46.540 --> 00:02:51.620 when there was nothing going. And it was just this stillness, this calmness, this presence 35 00:02:51.620 --> 00:02:54.520 that is very rare in a city. 36 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:59.080 I live in the CBD and it was so notic... Even... I'm still, when I see a plane, I'm like, 37 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:02.420 ooh, aeroplane. Sandy, what changed for you? 38 00:03:03.340 --> 00:03:10.040 Yes, I think it was a reconnection to some of the things that I have loved doing over the years, 39 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:14.220 because obviously everything stopped, including all of the civic functions and all of the 40 00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:20.120 requirements of the role of Lord Mayor. So, I went back to doing some sewing and cooking. 41 00:03:20.420 --> 00:03:21.140 I think... 42 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.940 I think the youngest came in one day and said, who's the woman in the kitchen and what have 43 00:03:24.940 --> 00:03:26.940 you done with my mother? So, it's sort of... 44 00:03:26.940 --> 00:03:27.880 Was it sourdough, Sandy? 45 00:03:28.380 --> 00:03:32.480 I did actually bake bread a couple of times, but I didn't do the sourdough. But, you know, 46 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:39.100 the city was amazing. I only stayed home one day through the whole of the lockdowns and 47 00:03:39.100 --> 00:03:44.940 to see all the streets empty and everything closed and no cars and no pedestrians, 48 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:51.180 and it really did feel like I'd stepped into some sort of science fiction, you know, Armageddon, 49 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:56.100 movie. But, you know, there were some very good things that came out of it too. 50 00:03:56.460 --> 00:03:59.820 Yeah, and we're definitely going to explore those. And when you say, yeah, it felt like Armageddon, 51 00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:04.640 it felt like the day we had the statewide blackout. Only it kept on going. Now, Norman, 52 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:09.040 you have been busy as anything during this pandemic. So, all those things we talked about 53 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:15.180 before, but you've also just put out a book. So, have you always been this busy? What changed for 54 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:15.300 you? 55 00:04:16.580 --> 00:04:21.600 Oh, yes, I have always been very busy, but I can sympathise. 56 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:26.860 I can sympathise or empathise with Andy and Sandy's stats, the stillness of the city, 57 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.520 the fact that there are no aeroplanes in the sky. I mean, the Sydney airport's a little 58 00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:35.600 bit busier than Adelaide Airport, and you're used to a plane every 90 seconds in the air, 59 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:42.360 and then none. And you did feel as in the sort of post apocalyptic world, at one point 60 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:49.300 when the northern beaches in New South Wales locked out, I was on the beach, on a harbour beach south 61 00:04:49.300 --> 00:04:51.600 of the harbour, and looking across at nine million people in the whole country, nine million people 62 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:58.600 Manly and it was a no-go area and it was just across there and I for some reason an image of 63 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:03.780 On the Beach came back to me and remember that Neville Shute book with the end of the earth 64 00:05:03.780 --> 00:05:09.220 with Ava Gardner and Gregory Peck he goes off in his submarine and the world's about to end I felt 65 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:14.920 a bit like that I have to say and like Andy I stopped traveling and that's actually how I wrote 66 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:19.620 the book I couldn't work out how I managed to write the book but it was the fact that I wasn't 67 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:27.920 spending a day traveling for an hour and then flying back I was I had time even though I was 68 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.760 busier than I've ever been in my life I've got to say I feel quite guilty because I really felt that 69 00:05:32.760 --> 00:05:37.240 extra time as well from not not traveling and not going into the office and then I'd see my friends 70 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:42.040 who were homeschooling kids and feel like I really shouldn't talk about the luxury of time time that I 71 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:48.200 had um Andy tell me that's the other thing that's it go no I'm sorry to drop it that's the other 72 00:05:48.200 --> 00:05:49.600 thing I learned is actually you've got to be a good writer you've got to be a good writer you've got to be a good writer 73 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:55.400 you've got to be incredibly sensitive which I haven't been from time to time about the situation 74 00:05:55.400 --> 00:06:00.540 other people are in I mean I casually the other day couldn't believe the amount of traffic on 75 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:05.800 Sydney Road so I took a little video and I just posted it on Twitter saying Sydney locked down 76 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:12.300 and I brought the wrath of the heavens on my head because it just hit people on a sore spot so 77 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:18.740 people are are doing it tough yeah it's been really sad to see I think a bit of um back and 78 00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.300 forth between 79 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:24.560 Victoria and Sydney I think over the latest lockdown as we kind of become more um what more 80 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:32.000 state loyalist statriests um what did you observe Andy and how people dealt with this did you 81 00:06:32.840 --> 00:06:37.120 do you think do you have more faith in humanity as a whole or less after seeing how people react 82 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:42.700 to this kind of catastrophe well for me a lot of it was witnessed through the company and the people 83 00:06:42.700 --> 00:06:48.360 I work with so we've got about 600 people nationally 500 here in South Australia um and so 84 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:49.200 what you saw was 85 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:53.900 um you know I was able to make a decision very quickly because you could see the the way it was 86 00:06:53.900 --> 00:07:00.580 going and very quickly the team just worked on it I think for me what I saw was the ability for 87 00:07:00.580 --> 00:07:08.040 people and communities within a business to look after each other to deal with all the small 88 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.800 details that need to be done um there were some people in my business and the core of my 89 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:19.000 business is classified software that we do for the naval combat systems um so that has to happen you 90 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:22.740 can't take that home you can't work from home when you're doing that class things happen when you 91 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:30.440 take classified defence documents on the bus in the bus stop it's not good so um because of that 92 00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:36.720 um you know we needed to protect that facilitating to take that capability so the less people we had 93 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.640 at work the the better the probability was we're going to keep covert out of the out of the work 94 00:07:41.640 --> 00:07:48.740 site so some people could manage that some people didn't like working at work they're worried about 95 00:07:48.740 --> 00:07:52.340 going into work, even though they were doing classified work, they were worried about going 96 00:07:52.340 --> 00:07:59.300 to work and mixing with people who were bringing the virus into the work facility. Other people, 97 00:07:59.840 --> 00:08:04.060 conversely, were at home and in difficult environments at home and didn't want to be 98 00:08:04.060 --> 00:08:09.460 at home, they wanted to be at work. And so you had to, the managers had to juggle this trick between 99 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:14.360 tailoring the solution for each person to make it work for them. So I think for me, 100 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:19.900 that was the biggest thing. And you saw the amount of efforts people went to some person 101 00:08:19.900 --> 00:08:23.860 supposed to be doing classified work to tailor their work so they could do unclassified work 102 00:08:23.860 --> 00:08:30.080 and do that at home. And I think what it brings to me is this challenge, I think, as we go forward, 103 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.800 when we start looking at the future, and this will be one of the, obviously one of the discussions 104 00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:38.100 later on, but it's how do you bring that connectivity between people? How do you bring 105 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:44.060 those relationships and that innate understanding if we're in a new world of working 106 00:08:44.060 --> 00:08:44.340 from home? 107 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:45.420 Significantly. 108 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.940 Yeah. And I think working out those highly personalised solutions, the idea of one fits 109 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:55.020 all has really been shown up. And I think one of the other good things is that maybe we're a bit 110 00:08:55.020 --> 00:08:59.440 more open about our personal lives because everybody's zooming into other people's kitchens 111 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:04.780 and learning about their pesky dogs or children or whatever. Sandy, what did you think? Streets 112 00:09:04.780 --> 00:09:11.620 of Adelaide. I mean, I think we like to think of ourselves as being quite obedient, aren't we? 113 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:13.580 I think there's been... 114 00:09:13.580 --> 00:09:18.480 I think one of the reasons that we have done so well is because the community has done 115 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:23.100 the right thing. It's no two ways about it. If people hadn't done the right thing, whether 116 00:09:23.100 --> 00:09:28.440 that's hand sanitiser or QR codes or face masks or staying home, then we wouldn't be 117 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.020 in this situation of the freedoms that we have been experiencing through this. 118 00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:38.840 The thing actually, just from what Andy said, one of the things that was really interesting 119 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:43.560 for me is there was an enormous amount of compassion shown, particularly for people 120 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:48.940 who were alone or frail or things like that. So when we had to close our libraries and 121 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:53.700 community centres, there was a whole team that went out with iPads and delivering medical 122 00:09:53.700 --> 00:09:58.600 supplies and making sure that they were checking in on some of the people in the city, which 123 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:02.820 I thought was extraordinary. The other thing that we had to deal with is that we had two 124 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:08.200 speeds happening. There were more than 200 people that are employed through our depot 125 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:13.560 and they were responsible for the hygiene levels and really cranking up all of the hygiene 126 00:10:13.560 --> 00:10:18.200 and cleansing through the city so they didn't get to stop for a minute in fact 127 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:21.340 they had to work more than they would normally and then you would have your 128 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:27.180 office workers who were able to go home and sort of you know take what work they 129 00:10:27.180 --> 00:10:34.420 could so that there was sort of there was a little inequity that we had to 130 00:10:34.420 --> 00:10:37.680 really work through in terms of who could and who couldn't and what that 131 00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:42.720 meant as long as everybody was very clear on what the expectation was so the 132 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:49.580 managers did have a lot to work through there and Norman I mean it's it's often 133 00:10:49.580 --> 00:10:53.800 misrepresented but we do tend to be subjected to pictures and videos of 134 00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:57.880 people doing the wrong thing you know crowded beaches in Sydney and maskless 135 00:10:57.880 --> 00:11:03.400 people in Melbourne what are the good signs of humanity that have kind of 136 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:09.160 sprouted during this pandemic well I completely agree with Sandy it 137 00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:12.520 governments don't control pandemics communities do 138 00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:12.700 you think that's a good thing to do? 139 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:17.300 and communities have rallied across the nation in order to do this you just 140 00:11:17.300 --> 00:11:21.320 can't throw them into lockdown and you see you saw that in the you saw the 141 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:25.240 failure of that in the second wave which was not a failure of community it was a 142 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.660 failure to engage with the community and that's what you're seeing in Sydney at 143 00:11:29.660 --> 00:11:33.780 the moment so in Melbourne it was the Northwest Corridor Western Suburbs 144 00:11:33.780 --> 00:11:37.340 Northern Suburbs you're actually seeing a recrudescence in the Western Suburbs 145 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:42.660 right now and in Sydney you saw it in the Southwest you're seeing in the Southwestern 146 00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:47.680 suburbs of Sydney where it's a failure to engage communities so whilst 147 00:11:47.680 --> 00:11:52.740 communities are pulled together there are pockets of disadvantage in every 148 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:57.480 major city in Australia including South Australia including Adelaide and the 149 00:11:57.480 --> 00:12:02.700 challenge is actually to engage those communities and and harness them to that 150 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:05.780 because it's not that they don't want to it's just that they're not necessarily 151 00:12:05.780 --> 00:12:12.380 watching the Stephen Marshall every day and the Chief Health Officer giving their announcements their 152 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:14.840 recommendations and they're not watching different media for watching media at all 153 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:19.500 English is not the first language they're disadvantaged and don't have much money and 154 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:25.020 having to work all over this all over our cities and I don't think we fully acknowledge that that 155 00:12:25.020 --> 00:12:31.080 is actually going to be a problem when it comes to immunization the Anglo community the English 156 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:37.620 speaking community is going to get immunized pretty quickly pretty fast they're well engaged 157 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:42.400 but if we follow the pattern of other nations our disadvantaged communities won't be because 158 00:12:42.660 --> 00:12:48.800 we fail to we failed to engage with them so we just must never never forget that message that 159 00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:53.640 Sanders has given is that it's about communities and successful communities and strengthening 160 00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:58.000 communities and I think you know that that in Melbourne that they've come out stronger 161 00:12:58.800 --> 00:13:04.460 we've got a real problem in Sydney at the moment where they've locked down three or four LGAs in 162 00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:10.120 the Southwest it failed when they tried to lock down LGAs in the city's East but now they're 163 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:12.640 really playing with fire by locking down the local government and they're not going to be able to 164 00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:18.120 get down Fairfield Canterbury Bankstown Liverpool because those are communities that already feel 165 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.320 disengaged and we've got this is something we've got to be really careful about so while we obsess 166 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:29.460 on CBDs we have we have people who are living outside the CBD who are not necessarily as engaged 167 00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:34.700 as we might be as they might be or we might not engage them as well as we could have well I did 168 00:13:34.700 --> 00:13:40.560 read somewhere that there are 120 languages spoken in the west of Sydney so you know that that's a 169 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:42.340 lot of pockets that they need to get into 170 00:13:42.660 --> 00:13:46.920 they've had 18 months to work out a plan anyway I'll just I'll just leave that to one side for now 171 00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:54.140 let's talk about me going on that one no Tori yeah um let's talk about CBDs 172 00:13:55.480 --> 00:14:00.040 because Adelaide's had quite a transformation hasn't it Sandy like we really um you know 173 00:14:00.040 --> 00:14:04.320 whether it's the small bars whether it's the festivals it's certainly become more than just 174 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:10.380 a CBD now it's certainly a destination and that's how much has that been blown up do you think by 175 00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:12.400 covert um well it's certainly 176 00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:17.040 um it has and that's one of the things that all CBDs of capital cities are dealing with 177 00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:22.220 um there's an organization that I belong to which is the capital city council of Lord Mayors the 178 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:28.620 triple CLM and during um covert we were in contact normally we'd see each other three times a year 179 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:33.120 we're in contact every week um particularly trying to deal with things like homelessness 180 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:38.580 uh with the retail sector that just died the hospitality sector what was going to happen 181 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:41.720 with tourism cleansing Hygiene's what was happening with our workforce 182 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:45.840 um that's like every week we bring something in and the biggest thing we were trying to work 183 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:52.080 out how we bring back is our Arts and Culture in our events um which we know is one of the reasons 184 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.100 that gives our city's soul and it's one of the reasons that we get so many people into our cities 185 00:14:56.100 --> 00:15:02.660 um and whether that's a sporting event or an Arts Festival and how do you put those on safely how do 186 00:15:02.660 --> 00:15:09.000 you make sure that people will still come and I we were so extremely lucky here that we had an 187 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.640 amazing Festival season in February March um we'd um yeah 188 00:15:12.640 --> 00:15:15.840 they tested and trialled a whole new way of people entering. 189 00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:19.100 So things like Michael Daniels from Gluttony 190 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:21.400 had six different entries instead of one, 191 00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:23.960 and to the point that, you know, 192 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.240 the conversations are happening between Adelaide and Edinburgh, 193 00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:29.440 so Edinburgh can see how they can safely put on their festival 194 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:30.540 when it comes time. 195 00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:34.320 So there was, you know, in all fields, 196 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:35.800 there was some great innovation. 197 00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:40.780 That word pivot that hit the English language in such a big way, 198 00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:43.140 but everybody was finding new ways to do things. 199 00:15:43.300 --> 00:15:48.020 But the trick for us now is to bring people back to the CBD 200 00:15:48.020 --> 00:15:53.280 because a lot of the businesses are dependent on that foot traffic 201 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:56.120 and we're still down by 20%, 25%. 202 00:15:56.680 --> 00:15:58.660 Is there work being done to, you know, 203 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.900 if we focus on the CBD, the arts and the culture, 204 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:04.880 but is there work being done to make sure that that then 205 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:08.060 not only draws people in but feeds back out and connects 206 00:16:08.060 --> 00:16:10.520 to particularly other multicultural pockets? 207 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:12.120 Within Adelaide? 208 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:12.800 Yeah, absolutely. 209 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:18.980 I mean, excuse me, there are 116 different countries of origin 210 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:21.700 and 94 different languages spoken in Adelaide alone. 211 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:25.300 So we are a very, very multicultural city. 212 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.060 And there's a lot of work being done. 213 00:16:28.400 --> 00:16:31.240 There was a huge amount of work being done to make sure 214 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:33.840 that all of those different communities also understood 215 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.460 what was going on. 216 00:16:34.560 --> 00:16:38.880 And we would normally get 320, 330,000 people that come 217 00:16:38.880 --> 00:16:40.760 into the city that don't live here on a daily basis. 218 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.300 So it's, we've worked very hard to help connect. 219 00:16:45.520 --> 00:16:48.020 One of the things that we did notice though, 220 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.080 which has been extraordinary, is the amount of people 221 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:51.500 that stopped using public transport 222 00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:52.680 and started using cars. 223 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.820 And that's been one of the hardest things 224 00:16:54.820 --> 00:16:56.040 that we've been trying to manage. 225 00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:57.260 Yeah, indeed. 226 00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.660 Didn't we have some kind of car festival in the middle of that? 227 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:01.020 Like celebrate the car? 228 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:01.920 That was last November. 229 00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:02.580 Come on. 230 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:03.500 Come on. 231 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:04.360 Fascinating. 232 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.240 Oh, that was just to sort of tell people. 233 00:17:06.360 --> 00:17:08.940 There's 43,000 car parks in the city of Adelaide, 234 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:10.180 10,000 of which are free. 235 00:17:10.180 --> 00:17:12.620 And it's just, you know, to save people. 236 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:14.580 At that point, they weren't feeling safe coming 237 00:17:14.580 --> 00:17:15.480 on the public transport. 238 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.280 So, come in. 239 00:17:18.080 --> 00:17:21.320 Andy, how important do you think the CBD is? 240 00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:23.300 You've seen a lot of CBDs around the world. 241 00:17:23.340 --> 00:17:25.440 I think we are very, I mean, you know, the planned city. 242 00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:28.080 We have a very specific CBD ringed by the park lands. 243 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.980 How does it compare? 244 00:17:30.060 --> 00:17:33.860 And do you think it's important that we bring all that life back 245 00:17:33.860 --> 00:17:35.160 to it or is it better if it filters 246 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.680 out more into suburbs as well? 247 00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:39.880 Well, I am fortunate to travel a fair bit and see a few cities, 248 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:41.380 particularly around in Sweden. 249 00:17:41.620 --> 00:17:42.700 You see some incredible cities. 250 00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:45.720 Malmo, big industrial city, biggest part of shipbuilding 251 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:47.720 that's been transformed into a university city. 252 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.000 So, you see cities around the world going into these. 253 00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:53.340 But I guess it comes to voting with your feet. 254 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:56.640 I just moved into the city on the weekend, like just this week. 255 00:17:56.760 --> 00:17:59.700 So, I'm now living in this city in the eastern side. 256 00:17:59.820 --> 00:18:03.540 So, literally my life is in boxes and I don't have any curtains 257 00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:05.080 or blinds on the windows at the moment. 258 00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:05.600 It's a new place. 259 00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:07.080 So, yes. 260 00:18:07.260 --> 00:18:09.520 So, I suppose that vibrancy you bring, 261 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.420 but I think a lot of that starts with a vision 262 00:18:13.420 --> 00:18:15.340 or understanding what you want it to be. 263 00:18:15.780 --> 00:18:18.280 I don't think it can just happen by happenstance. 264 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:19.640 You've got to have an understanding 265 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.580 about what do you aspire for the place to be? 266 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:25.200 What do you want it to be known for? 267 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:28.580 What is it unique that differentiates this city 268 00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:30.400 of Adelaide as different to something else? 269 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.640 At times, I think, you know, I came from Sydney, 270 00:18:32.760 --> 00:18:34.140 originally grew up there. 271 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.820 And at times, certainly in Sydney, you know, 272 00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:39.120 Norman you might have this thing. 273 00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:41.480 There is Sydney and there is everything else that happens 274 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.360 outside of Sydney, but Sydney is the real heart 275 00:18:44.360 --> 00:18:48.000 and everything revolves around Sydney for many people there. 276 00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:51.440 And so, when you think about other cities, 277 00:18:51.560 --> 00:18:54.900 you don't really sometimes pay much attention to it. 278 00:18:55.100 --> 00:18:56.700 You certainly don't think about moving. 279 00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:58.680 Many people don't think about moving to other cities. 280 00:18:59.760 --> 00:19:01.860 But it's important to have a brand, I think, 281 00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:04.840 because certainly my business now, we're trying 282 00:19:04.840 --> 00:19:06.760 to attract people from nationally. 283 00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:08.740 There's not enough people here in Adelaide for us 284 00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:11.400 to feed the business with the type of people we need. 285 00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:18.560 And therefore, for us, having a clear and understandable brand 286 00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:21.880 of Adelaide to be able to project when we're asking people 287 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:24.900 to relocate down to Adelaide is really important for us. 288 00:19:25.220 --> 00:19:27.640 I know that's been important for the French and where they try 289 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.000 to lure people over, they just take them to the wine regions 290 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.540 and feed them full of cheese and say, 291 00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:32.740 you're going to like it here. 292 00:19:34.040 --> 00:19:36.040 Norman, let's go back to what Sandy was saying 293 00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:37.920 about people didn't want to go on public transport, 294 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.160 so they're driving more. 295 00:19:39.260 --> 00:19:41.420 One of the things we always hear about Sydney particularly, 296 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:43.760 and one of the things we're proud of here is the short commute 297 00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:46.280 compared to a very long commute over there. 298 00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:49.140 How does that impact on people? 299 00:19:49.320 --> 00:19:52.960 I mean, nobody wants to do that long commute, but at the same time, 300 00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:56.020 that means that they might not be working. 301 00:19:56.500 --> 00:20:00.320 So what are some of the things we can learn out of this in terms 302 00:20:00.320 --> 00:20:03.180 of the way people change how they get around into and out of the city? 303 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:07.900 I think that's massive. 304 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:09.120 I think that mask wearing has transformed that, 305 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:10.320 or it should have transformed that. 306 00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:13.320 It took a long time for us to accept that masks were going 307 00:20:13.320 --> 00:20:17.460 to be essential in this pandemic, and that you don't really pick this 308 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:22.080 up from surfaces, you don't really pick it up from droplets 309 00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:25.380 and close contact, you pick it up from breathing the air around you. 310 00:20:25.600 --> 00:20:29.980 And public transport is a risk, but that risk drops dramatically with masks. 311 00:20:30.040 --> 00:20:34.000 I think mask wearing has made a big difference. 312 00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:35.860 Every time you've got an outbreak, though, 313 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:37.160 you revert. 314 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:40.200 And people are staying at home and they become fearful, 315 00:20:40.300 --> 00:20:43.060 and trust becomes a huge issue. 316 00:20:43.260 --> 00:20:45.480 And I think there is going to be a period of healing here, 317 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:48.580 particularly in CBDs. 318 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:55.660 It's so important that CBDs revive through this pandemic and beyond. 319 00:20:56.340 --> 00:20:59.820 And public transport is really the only way to go. 320 00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:05.360 The motor car has got a limited lifespan here in terms of CBDs. 321 00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:06.520 And I think that the 322 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:07.540 city is now in the middle of a pandemic. 323 00:21:07.540 --> 00:21:08.920 And it's a generational thing as well. 324 00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:14.920 So, and I think Andy's alluding to that in terms of recruiting people to a new city, 325 00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:18.020 is that if you take the millennial generation and younger, 326 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:19.800 they don't particularly want to have a car. 327 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:21.740 They don't want to be commuting long ways. 328 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:23.520 They want to be living near where they work. 329 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.540 And they like city life. 330 00:21:26.040 --> 00:21:31.540 And of course, Adelaide is hugely affordable compared to other capital cities 331 00:21:31.540 --> 00:21:36.400 and hugely liveable and you've got immense advantages over other cities. 332 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:37.140 And that's why we're here. 333 00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:43.460 And I think that we are going to have to do a strong marketing job back to public transport 334 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:46.200 and the attractions that the city has got. 335 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:47.560 I know Melbourne's got that challenge. 336 00:21:47.820 --> 00:21:52.880 You haven't really seen Sydney trying to remarket its CBD at the moment. 337 00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:53.420 At least I haven't. 338 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:54.500 Maybe I've just been asleep at the wheel. 339 00:21:55.780 --> 00:22:00.300 But, you know, Sydney has areas like Barangaroo, 340 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:06.400 which they've developed on the harbour as a kind of alternate entertain lifestyle area. 341 00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:14.940 And you've got just on the city edge and you've got bigger suburban focuses for people, 342 00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:18.600 for example, in the inner eastern suburbs, inner western suburbs and so on. 343 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:24.600 But the CBDs are so important to the life environment, say, of a metropolitan community. 344 00:22:25.460 --> 00:22:26.980 Can I just take you back to the masks? 345 00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:31.000 Why do you think people are, some people are reluctant to wear masks? 346 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:36.340 Do you have any theories on the psychology behind people who just feel like it's an affront to put something on their face? 347 00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:43.760 No, I think there are some people with an ideological bent. 348 00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:49.400 So you've seen the stories, you know, the Northern Beach, the Northern New South Wales, 349 00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:55.540 where there's an ideological bent on that, which is almost like Ayn Rand libertarianism. 350 00:22:55.620 --> 00:22:58.620 You're not going to tell me what to do, almost in the American style. 351 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.740 I think for some people it's actually comfort. 352 00:23:03.340 --> 00:23:07.000 And I think we were, I don't know about everybody else, 353 00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:14.380 watching, but when CoronaCast started, we were pushing masks quite hard right from the beginning, 354 00:23:14.420 --> 00:23:15.940 because we realized this was airborne spread. 355 00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:20.940 And people wanted to know about making their own cloth masks and having these cool masks, which is fine. 356 00:23:21.100 --> 00:23:22.280 They're actually quite uncomfortable. 357 00:23:22.780 --> 00:23:28.500 And the surgical masks that you buy in the supermarket are much more comfortable to wear for the day, 358 00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:31.220 they're lighter, they're just easier on you. 359 00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:33.200 And I think there's an element of comfort. 360 00:23:33.460 --> 00:23:37.120 And since I stopped bothering about cloth masks and just started wearing them, 361 00:23:37.620 --> 00:23:41.420 I've been wearing one or two, you know, I wear surgical masks in the morning, surgical masks in the afternoon, 362 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.640 transformed my mask wearing, because it's just so much easier. 363 00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:46.200 And I think that's part of the story. 364 00:23:46.820 --> 00:23:48.120 I think also if they could... 365 00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:48.360 I mean, like many things. 366 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:50.500 I'm sorry. 367 00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:51.940 But it's like many things. 368 00:23:52.060 --> 00:23:55.100 You can look for deep meaning here, but often it's just comfort and convenience. 369 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:56.800 Yeah, fair enough. 370 00:23:56.840 --> 00:23:59.520 And I reckon if they could work out a way to stop your glasses fogging up, 371 00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:04.000 that could go some way to getting more people into them. 372 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:06.920 Sandy, let's talk about the mental health. 373 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.580 What are the mental health impacts of the pandemic? 374 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:12.600 As with probably everything to do with this, you see the two streams. 375 00:24:13.040 --> 00:24:15.140 You know, for some people, they've had more time to reflect. 376 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:16.380 They've reassessed their lives. 377 00:24:16.540 --> 00:24:17.920 They've, you know, breathed deeply. 378 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.360 They've spent more time in green spaces or whatever. 379 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.880 And obviously for a lot of other people, there's a huge amount of uncertainty. 380 00:24:25.320 --> 00:24:32.660 And you were saying that the level of mental health concerns are going to be greater than after World War II? 381 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:33.160 Yeah. 382 00:24:33.300 --> 00:24:34.480 There was a... 383 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:41.420 I was having a discussion about some of the mental health problems that they can see that are coming at us like a tsunami. 384 00:24:41.500 --> 00:24:48.140 And they were saying that similar levels or more than post-World War II. 385 00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:52.720 And a lot of it is around anxiety and depression and that uncertainty. 386 00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:57.360 And we've sort of been 18 months now really not knowing what comes next. 387 00:24:57.560 --> 00:25:01.820 And every time sort of, you know, we've got to balance that against complacency 388 00:25:01.820 --> 00:25:03.580 because every time everybody relaxes. 389 00:25:03.620 --> 00:25:04.460 And another thing is that we're not really aware of what's going to happen next. 390 00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:05.940 There's another spot and another spot. 391 00:25:06.060 --> 00:25:07.240 And we're in a pandemic. 392 00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:12.460 We're in a global pandemic that will continue to happen until vaccination levels really across the world 393 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:15.340 are at a level that people can travel safely. 394 00:25:15.520 --> 00:25:17.620 And, you know, our borders, we talked about borders. 395 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:19.260 They're probably not going to open for a while. 396 00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:21.680 What we also... 397 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.340 We did a lot of work, particularly with international students that were trapped here that couldn't go home 398 00:25:26.340 --> 00:25:34.160 and people that had family overseas because what they were doing, of course, is talking to their families through Zoom 399 00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:39.820 or FaceTime or whatever and understanding that they were going through some terrible times, 400 00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:44.400 depending where they were in the world, even though we were in relative safety here. 401 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.640