WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.080 Welcome everyone to the 2021 Adelaide Festival of Ideas and our presentation today which is 2 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:12.000 hosted by the University of Adelaide in the wonderful Benython Hall. I'm Professor Jenny 3 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.360 Shaw, Executive Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Interim Deputy Vice-Chancellor and Vice-President 4 00:00:16.360 --> 00:00:21.160 Academic here at the University of Adelaide. I would also like to acknowledge that we meet on 5 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:25.520 the lands of the Indigenous Kaurna people and we acknowledge the Kaurna people's ongoing relationship 6 00:00:25.520 --> 00:00:31.220 with this land. I would also like to acknowledge all First Nations people here today and listening 7 00:00:31.220 --> 00:00:37.400 to the broadcast of this session. So shortly we'll move to the main event and we'll hear first from 8 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:42.720 Professor Anne Pender, our Sir Sidney Kidman Chair of Australian Studies and then from our special 9 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:47.860 guest who's just made it across the Victorian border in the nick of time, Kirill O'Gartner, 10 00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:55.440 ASE. So given COVID has now delayed the 2020 Kidman lecture twice, it was third time luck 11 00:00:55.440 --> 00:01:03.500 and Kirill we're really thrilled to have you here today. So my role as Chair is to introduce 12 00:01:03.500 --> 00:01:08.700 Professor Anne Pender who joined us in 2019 as the Kidman Chair, a position created by the 13 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:14.460 University of Adelaide and Virtual Australia in order to promote Australian Studies. So none of 14 00:01:14.460 --> 00:01:18.980 our Virtual Australia representatives could be here today due to interstate border closures but 15 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:24.080 we acknowledge their support. Professor Anne Pender's expertise crosses the fields of Australian 16 00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:25.420 theatre, literature and arts. She's also been a member of the Australian Association of Indigenous 17 00:01:25.420 --> 00:01:25.620 Studies and she's a member of the Australian Association of Indigenous Studies. So please 18 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:29.520 in the field of Literature and Creative Writing and she gave the 2019 Kidman lecture on some 19 00:01:29.520 --> 00:01:34.780 of her recent work. Anne has held a Menzies Scholarship, an Australian Research Council 20 00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:40.940 Future Fellowship and a Fulbright Senior Fellowship and she has promoted Australian theatre and 21 00:01:40.940 --> 00:01:46.020 literary studies at universities across Australia as well as at the University of Copenhagen, 22 00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:52.120 King's College London and Harvard. So please join me in welcoming Professor Anne Pender. 23 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:10.760 Welcome everyone. It's a privilege to be with you this morning. As Jenny said I hold the Kidman Chair 24 00:02:10.760 --> 00:02:16.140 in Australian Studies and my role involves teaching Australian Studies with a focus on 25 00:02:16.140 --> 00:02:23.360 literary studies. I teach courses on Australian classics, novels, films, drama to undergraduate 26 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.400 students and I supervise personal development. I'm a professor at the University of Sydney and I'm a 27 00:02:25.420 --> 00:02:31.540 graduate student with all their projects too. I conduct research and publish in the areas of 28 00:02:31.540 --> 00:02:38.080 Australian literary and theatre history and I have been fortunate this year to hold a National 29 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:44.280 Library of Australia Fellowship to conduct some research on Australian theatre in China and 30 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:51.600 Chinese theatre in Australia looking at the last 40 years or so. The third dimension of my role is 31 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:55.400 to promote Australian Studies in all its guises. I'm a professor at the University of Sydney and 32 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:08.020 I've worked relatively 33 00:03:18.660 --> 00:03:06.180 ! 34 00:03:18.660 --> 00:03:24.100 ! 35 00:03:16.760 --> 00:03:24.100 ! 36 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:23.860 them. Carrillo began his career as an actor after studying drama at Stanford as a post-grad. 37 00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:31.180 As an actor, Carrillo has played many roles and he's played real people such as D.H. Lawrence, 38 00:03:31.580 --> 00:03:39.720 Siegfried Sassoon and Einstein. Unafraid of the really big challenges, he has also played King 39 00:03:39.720 --> 00:03:46.940 Lear in Tokyo. He worked at the Melbourne Theatre Company. He co-founded the Playbox Theatre in 40 00:03:46.940 --> 00:03:52.980 Melbourne, which was an extraordinary success in the mid-1970s when Australian theatre was 41 00:03:52.980 --> 00:04:02.240 developing rapidly. After a stint as Australian cultural counsellor to China in Beijing in the 42 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.320 80s, Carrillo directed the first production of an Australian play in China, overseeing the 43 00:04:08.320 --> 00:04:09.560 translation of the play, 44 00:04:09.720 --> 00:04:16.900 into Mandarin. It was Jack Hibbard's A Stretch of the Imagination. Well, this ambitious and 45 00:04:16.900 --> 00:04:22.320 successful production marked a key moment in the Australia-China cultural relationship. 46 00:04:24.520 --> 00:04:29.200 Carrillo has brought numerous Chinese theatre troops and companies to Australia 47 00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:38.200 and he has facilitated tours by Australian theatre troops and artists to China and across Asia. 48 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:39.700 Carrillo has also directed the first production of the play, The 49 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:41.940 He chaired Asia Link at Melbourne University, 50 00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:45.360 the Performing Arts Board of the Australia Council 51 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.840 and the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. 52 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:52.640 Carrillo was chairman of the Sidney Meyer Fund for many years. 53 00:04:53.660 --> 00:04:57.900 Carrillo's engagement with the arts across Asia is exceptional 54 00:04:57.900 --> 00:05:01.760 and his experiences are rich and instructive, 55 00:05:01.820 --> 00:05:05.260 especially now as we face challenges in our region. 56 00:05:06.460 --> 00:05:08.260 Please join me in making Carrillo welcome. 57 00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:10.500 APPLAUSE 58 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:18.360 Get rid of the flies. 59 00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:23.900 Thank you very much, Anne. 60 00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:26.880 I won't repeat the welcome to country, 61 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.600 but I would acknowledge that it feels very good 62 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:31.980 to be welcomed to Ghana country. 63 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:34.920 And like all Australians, 64 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.580 we are beneficiaries of the very rich cultural traditions 65 00:05:39.580 --> 00:05:42.260 of the first inhabitants of this land 66 00:05:42.260 --> 00:05:45.860 and of the very vibrant contemporary expressions 67 00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:49.100 of that culture in the visual and the performing arts. 68 00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:53.700 Today I'm going to talk about Australia's relationship with China. 69 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:57.940 In summary, I believe that the current sour relationship 70 00:05:57.940 --> 00:06:01.320 is as much Australia's fault as China's 71 00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:04.440 and that ideology and domestic politics 72 00:06:04.440 --> 00:06:06.720 have overpowered the national interest. 73 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:09.560 It is true that China, in recent years, 74 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.940 has been behaving towards Australia 75 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:14.960 like a schoolyard bully picking on a small fry, 76 00:06:15.200 --> 00:06:18.740 but we have been actively provoking the bully. 77 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.660 Whose interests are being served by our continuing to do so? 78 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:26.460 Or are we just not thinking clearly 79 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.120 because we're so used to being told what to do? 80 00:06:31.760 --> 00:06:33.320 I'll come back to these important questions, 81 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:34.960 but first let me introduce myself. 82 00:06:36.380 --> 00:06:39.360 I've been involved in Australia-China cultural engagement, 83 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:40.640 for over 40 years. 84 00:06:40.980 --> 00:06:44.400 I became interested in China first as an undergraduate 85 00:06:44.400 --> 00:06:47.320 at Melbourne University in the 1960s, 86 00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:51.200 and I first travelled to China in February 1977. 87 00:06:53.780 --> 00:06:56.380 As a founding director of Melbourne's Playbox Theatre Company, 88 00:06:56.500 --> 00:06:58.280 I led the first Australian theatre group 89 00:06:58.280 --> 00:07:00.240 to travel to China in 1978, 90 00:07:01.580 --> 00:07:03.300 and the following year we presented 91 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.780 the superlative Glove Puppetry Masters 92 00:07:06.280 --> 00:07:09.340 from the Fujian Puppet Theatre of China to greater clubs. 93 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:16.260 I was then invited to tour the 50-member Nanjing Acrobatic Troupe 94 00:07:16.260 --> 00:07:19.500 in 1980 on a seven-week national tour 95 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:21.640 to every Australian capital city. 96 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.640 Because it was so big an undertaking, 97 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:27.960 I invited the distinguished Australian theatre promoter, 98 00:07:27.960 --> 00:07:31.800 Clifford Hocking, to join Playbox to manage the tour, 99 00:07:31.900 --> 00:07:33.320 and the wonderful Clifford was, of course, 100 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:36.740 a director of the Adelaide Festival in earlier years. 101 00:07:37.060 --> 00:07:38.380 In 1983, 102 00:07:38.380 --> 00:07:40.980 we followed with another national tour 103 00:07:40.980 --> 00:07:43.000 by the Jiangsu Peking Opera Company. 104 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.180 Both these companies came from Jiangsu Province in China, 105 00:07:47.300 --> 00:07:48.860 of which Nanjing is the capital, 106 00:07:49.700 --> 00:07:55.140 because Victoria and Jiangsu had become sister states in 1979 107 00:07:56.440 --> 00:07:58.600 under the enthusiastic shepherding 108 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:02.560 of the then-liberal premier, Sir Rupert Hamer. 109 00:08:03.620 --> 00:08:08.260 In 1983, Playbox also presented China's Hunan Puppet Company, 110 00:08:08.380 --> 00:08:09.680 which is a rod puppet company. 111 00:08:11.080 --> 00:08:13.060 Each of these four companies offered exposure 112 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:16.740 to exquisite artistry handed down through generations 113 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:19.900 and performance forms that were new 114 00:08:19.900 --> 00:08:22.020 to Australian artists and audiences. 115 00:08:23.380 --> 00:08:26.480 They offered windows to rich and ancient cultural traditions 116 00:08:27.440 --> 00:08:30.800 that broadened our horizons and added new colors 117 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:35.040 to the creative, multicultural tapestry we strive 118 00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:36.400 to weave in this country. 119 00:08:38.380 --> 00:08:41.980 Perhaps the most useful cultural contribution I've made 120 00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:47.040 to Australia's development was the Nanjing Acrobatic Training 121 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:50.220 Program, which also happened in 1983-84. 122 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.420 During the Nanjing Troops Tour in 1980, I came up with the idea 123 00:08:55.420 --> 00:08:59.180 to bring some of these remarkable artists back to Australia 124 00:08:59.780 --> 00:09:03.560 to train our young people to create a career path 125 00:09:03.560 --> 00:09:05.620 in high-level circus skills. 126 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:08.360 Both the Australian Council for the Arts, the National Academy 127 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:12.280 for the Arts and the Chinese Ministry of Culture thought this was a really stupid idea. 128 00:09:13.300 --> 00:09:17.840 They said there were no acrobatic traditions here, that our kids wouldn't be interested, 129 00:09:18.060 --> 00:09:24.320 that they couldn't speak Chinese, etc., etc. So it took three years and countless meetings in both 130 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:30.760 countries and ultimately a show of courage and trust from both governments and private funders 131 00:09:30.760 --> 00:09:38.020 to give it a go. In late 1983, seven leading members of the Nanjing Acrobatic Troupe 132 00:09:38.020 --> 00:09:42.940 returned to work with the Flying Fruit Fly Circus, Circus Oz, and a range of independent 133 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:49.980 theatre artists for three months of harshly intensive training. We chose to do the program 134 00:09:49.980 --> 00:09:55.960 in Albury-Wodonga not only because it was the Fruit Fly's base, but more importantly so that 135 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:01.520 it could operate in the embrace of a small, welcoming community without metropolitan 136 00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:08.000 distractions. The Chinese trainers were initially shocked by the very large, 137 00:10:08.020 --> 00:10:13.260 low technical skill base of the raw young Australians, who were much more focused on 138 00:10:13.260 --> 00:10:21.340 community outcomes than on high personal achievement. With an extraordinary commitment from both 139 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:26.680 sides, however, the three months culminated in an ecstatic performance at the end of February 140 00:10:26.680 --> 00:10:33.860 1984, which we cheekily entitled The Great Leap Forward. For Australian contemporary 141 00:10:34.380 --> 00:10:37.420 circus, acrobatics, and physical theatre, it truly was. 142 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.380 Indeed, the program was so widely successful that it was repeated the following summer 143 00:10:43.380 --> 00:10:50.400 again for another three intensive months. You can trace the establishment of the National 144 00:10:50.400 --> 00:10:57.080 Institute of Circus Arts in Melbourne directly back to this program. From those first young 145 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:03.340 participants, you can now track at least two generations of top Australian physical performers 146 00:11:04.180 --> 00:11:08.000 whose highly trained bodies and disciplined minds are at the core of the circus. The program 147 00:11:08.020 --> 00:11:11.940 is a great example of the success of the Australian circus. You can draw a line from Nanjing 148 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:17.920 to the national and international success of Australian physical theatre, Circus Oz, 149 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:24.700 Circa Flying Fruit Flys, Acrobat, Legs on the Wall, Rock and Roll Circus, Gravity and 150 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:31.080 Other Myths, Strut and Fret Productions, The Women's Circus and many, many other companies, 151 00:11:31.460 --> 00:11:37.500 small ensembles and individual artists from every state and territory. I see them now, 152 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:43.400 and I know their genetic inheritance from Chinese training methods, professional prowess 153 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:50.280 and pride, married to Australian production values, political irreverence and community 154 00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:58.180 connection. This has bred an exciting new hybrid, a recognisably Australian style among 155 00:11:58.180 --> 00:12:06.400 artists and companies, a style now celebrated around the world. In 1984, the Department 156 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:07.480 of Foreign Affairs made a statement in the National Institute of Circus Arts, which was 157 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:12.280 a very brave choice when appointing me a theatre professional as Cultural Counsellor 158 00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:18.520 at the Australian Embassy in Beijing, rather than a career diplomat as my three predecessors 159 00:12:18.520 --> 00:12:24.000 had been. I travelled to Beijing to take up the position in April 1985. 160 00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:30.700 The Australian Ambassador during my three years in Beijing was the brilliant Professor 161 00:12:30.700 --> 00:12:37.360 Ross Garnaut, previously Senior Economic Advisor to Prime Minister Bob Hawke. Ross was 162 00:12:40.020 --> 00:12:46.340 relatively 163 00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:08.420 beginning to come to Australia. 164 00:13:09.140 --> 00:13:11.920 Indeed, for anything that came to the embassy 165 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:15.540 that was not politics, aid, trade, or defense. 166 00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:19.540 All of these roles gave me many opportunities 167 00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:22.140 to travel around China, and I made the most of them. 168 00:13:22.540 --> 00:13:24.840 A few of the wonderful experiences I had 169 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.420 included traveling to Tibet to prepare the way, 170 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:30.920 like John the Baptist, for Susan Ryan's first coming 171 00:13:30.920 --> 00:13:33.600 in her role as Minister for Education, 172 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.400 accompanying Barry Jones as Minister for Science 173 00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:40.500 to Xicheng, China's rocket launching base, 174 00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.020 when the minister was exploring the use 175 00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:46.500 of Chinese launch facilities for the first generation 176 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:48.340 of OSAP satellites. 177 00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:52.400 Twice accompanying Gough Whitlam around China 178 00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:54.380 in his capacity then as Chairman 179 00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:55.800 of the Australia China Council. 180 00:13:56.020 --> 00:13:59.220 On one occasion, taking notes for Gough's meeting 181 00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:02.400 with Deng Xiaoping in the Great Hall of the People, 182 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:03.580 I was there. 183 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.700 I was there negotiating the annual exchange program 184 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:08.680 under the bilateral cultural agreement. 185 00:14:09.800 --> 00:14:13.620 And over my three years there, attending 187 performances 186 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:17.080 of Chinese opera, drama, acrobatics, dance, puppetry, 187 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.020 and film, plus many wonderful international companies, 188 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.920 including our own Australian Ballet, 189 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:27.100 whose tour in 1986 I negotiated. 190 00:14:28.400 --> 00:14:30.620 And as Anne mentioned, a particular highlight for me 191 00:14:31.160 --> 00:14:33.300 was directing Jack Hibbard's A Stretch of the 192 00:14:33.300 --> 00:14:36.600 Imagination for the Shanghai People's Art Theatre. 193 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:40.900 It was a golden time in the relationship 194 00:14:40.900 --> 00:14:43.980 with China opening to the world and both sides keen 195 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:46.900 to deepen the relationship and learn from each other. 196 00:14:48.140 --> 00:14:51.140 In Chinese government agencies, artistic circles, 197 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:55.180 and academia, everyone was welcoming and supportive. 198 00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:00.440 In China, culture is very close to ideology, 199 00:15:00.700 --> 00:15:03.160 and the winds of political change were frequently 200 00:15:03.300 --> 00:15:05.220 first felt on the artist's cheeks. 201 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:10.060 In China, like in every other Asian country I know, 202 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:14.060 culture is at the very center of life through a broad 203 00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:18.040 understanding of one's language, history, education, 204 00:15:18.520 --> 00:15:22.840 art, food, and even politics, whereas in Australia, 205 00:15:23.560 --> 00:15:26.720 many people seem to think that culture is what you do 206 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:28.160 on Saturday night. 207 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.920 China's tight political censorship across the arts is, 208 00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:33.280 paradoxically, a natural phenomenon, and this is a 209 00:15:33.300 --> 00:15:35.740 paradoxically a compliment to the power of art, 210 00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:38.900 a show of respect for the influence that art can have 211 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:39.700 across society. 212 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.060 Unlike China, the arts in Australia are not generally 213 00:15:45.060 --> 00:15:49.120 thought to be a measure of society, a powerful force 214 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:52.480 for social cohesion and economic betterment. 215 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:56.200 The hopes we express as artists in Australia about 216 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.600 art influencing society, I found, were experienced 217 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.380 for real in China. 218 00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:06.900 After three years in China, I returned to the Playbox Theatre 219 00:16:06.900 --> 00:16:09.760 and then to other roles with a continuing involvement in 220 00:16:10.300 --> 00:16:13.940 and support for cultural exchange that kept me linked 221 00:16:13.940 --> 00:16:17.500 to the ongoing challenges of the relationship with China. 222 00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:23.500 To quote the tragedy of Macbeth, I am in blood stepped in so far 223 00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:27.200 that should I wade no more, returning were as tedious 224 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:28.460 as go o'er. 225 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:32.740 The tragedy of the collapse of Australia's good bilateral 226 00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:39.460 relations with China is our failure to recognize our 227 00:16:39.460 --> 00:16:41.920 willful infliction of self-harm. 228 00:16:43.660 --> 00:16:46.100 Earlier Australian Prime Ministers accepted and 229 00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:49.820 sometimes touted Australia's support for American military 230 00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:51.980 containment of China in the Pacific. 231 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.920 We never said this openly, but we did allow President Obama 232 00:16:56.920 --> 00:17:00.620 to announce the so-called US Pacific pivot in our own 233 00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:01.060 Parliament. 234 00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:05.920 This pivot was, of course, a policy to contain China. 235 00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:11.360 Successive Prime Ministers on both sides have failed to give 236 00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:15.120 us an assessment of what it might mean for Australia to pick 237 00:17:15.120 --> 00:17:18.980 sides in a great power rivalry across the Pacific. 238 00:17:20.780 --> 00:17:23.500 I would argue that this is not our contest. 239 00:17:24.580 --> 00:17:28.460 And America's national interest is not the same as Australia's 240 00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:29.260 national interest. 241 00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:31.040 Yes, we want to be a part of the global economy, but we want to be a part of the global economy. 242 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:59.240 Ok 243 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:06.140 Almost every story is distorted with the pejorative label of communist, as though this word alone 244 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:08.360 justified our hostility. 245 00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:15.200 Yet most Australians of European heritage and sadly most of the Australian political 246 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:22.360 class know almost nothing of China's history, its rich culture and traditions, let alone 247 00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:24.520 its language and form of government. 248 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:32.680 In my lifetime, I don't think we have ever had a prime minister, a foreign minister and 249 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:38.940 indeed even a wider cabinet who have less knowledge of China and less apparent interest 250 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:41.160 in improving this dismal situation. 251 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:50.120 We don't have to like China and their form of government to deal with them in a more 252 00:18:50.120 --> 00:18:53.400 informed, balanced and respectful way. 253 00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:53.960 . 254 00:18:54.780 --> 00:19:01.660 Our politicians and media constantly want to change China rather than to understand it. 255 00:19:02.180 --> 00:19:06.960 The overwhelming majority of Australians know nothing of the suffering and trials of the 256 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:13.420 Chinese people in the 19th and 20th centuries, mostly inflicted by our British and European 257 00:19:14.040 --> 00:19:14.160 ancestors. 258 00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:21.040 They know little and care less about modern China and its legitimate interests, about 259 00:19:21.040 --> 00:19:24.120 the achievements of the Chinese people over the last few decades. 260 00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:24.420 They know little and care less about the achievements of the Chinese people over the last few decades. 261 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:25.140 They know little and care less about the achievements of the Chinese people over the last few decades. 262 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:30.820 During which hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty and enabled 263 00:19:30.820 --> 00:19:36.720 to live a modest but decent life, to have ownership of their own apartment, maybe also 264 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:44.020 a car, to take a holiday, in fact to enjoy a small part of the many privileges that Australians 265 00:19:44.020 --> 00:19:45.240 take for granted. 266 00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:52.220 I've been travelling regularly to China now for over 40 years and I have only ever met 267 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:54.100 and tried to reciprocate the 268 00:19:54.100 --> 00:19:56.900 courtesy, curiosity and generosity. 269 00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:05.660 I can tell you very truthfully that in general the Chinese people are much happier, more 270 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:12.880 optimistic about the future, more capitalist, prouder of their own country and, as we're 271 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:18.280 on the grounds of a prestigious Australian university, far more respectful of the power 272 00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:20.820 of a good education than most Australians. 273 00:20:22.100 --> 00:20:24.080 Today, people find it threatening to be a part of the society, but they are not. 274 00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:29.380 They are threatening that many Chinese are richer than us, more successful than us and 275 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:31.100 often smarter than us. 276 00:20:31.780 --> 00:20:37.620 Now they even presume to question the truth of our Western so-called universal values. 277 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.920 I wonder if these are the same values that were exhibited by those who proclaimed the 278 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:48.840 South Australian Act in 1834 that promised to protect the land rights of the indigenous 279 00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:49.720 people here. 280 00:20:50.320 --> 00:20:54.080 Or the values that keep children and families imprisoned indefinitely. 281 00:20:57.820 --> 00:20:59.900 Or those who claim to be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't 282 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:05.560 be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't 283 00:21:05.560 --> 00:21:08.860 be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't 284 00:21:08.860 --> 00:21:12.980 be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't 285 00:21:12.980 --> 00:21:13.740 be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy 286 00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:17.400 but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy 287 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:24.080 but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy but couldn't be wealthy 288 00:21:24.100 --> 00:21:32.080 to get harder. Why have I never heard him say, how are we going to try and make it better? 289 00:21:33.540 --> 00:21:38.760 Sadly, I've not seen much evidence that he and his advisors want the relationship to be better. 290 00:21:39.360 --> 00:21:43.580 It's scary, but maybe he doesn't know how to make it better. 291 00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:51.320 Even scarier, perhaps, he may be waiting for instructions before he tries to make it better. 292 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.000 Frankly, China has ceased largely to care about Australia. 293 00:21:58.180 --> 00:22:00.620 Politically, we've made ourselves irrelevant. 294 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:06.840 And the relationship won't get better with bluster and slogans, 295 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.600 our PM talking sternly of sovereignty, which is not at issue, 296 00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:13.420 nor of our values, which are not threatened. 297 00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:16.940 The Chinese are not asking us to change our form of government, 298 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.440 to follow Confucius or unpick our legal system. 299 00:22:21.320 --> 00:22:25.840 The Prime Minister says that every decision he takes on China is in the national interest. 300 00:22:26.860 --> 00:22:32.020 I find it difficult to understand how decisions to alienate our biggest trading partner, 301 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.680 damage export earnings and destroy jobs in many industries, 302 00:22:37.060 --> 00:22:41.040 can possibly be in Australia's national interest. 303 00:22:42.460 --> 00:22:46.340 Why is it, do you think, that many different countries of the Asian region 304 00:22:46.340 --> 00:22:49.140 are able to deal with China so much better than we do? 305 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:53.320 Why is it that we have favoured an alliance with America 306 00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:55.940 and or a troubled history with China? 307 00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:01.220 Japan has huge historical baggage in its dealings with China. 308 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.620 Yet the Japanese seem to manage the relationship so much better. 309 00:23:07.340 --> 00:23:12.680 Courtesy, discipline, respect and an intimate knowledge of the other 310 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.200 are a good start to the answer. 311 00:23:15.860 --> 00:23:20.640 These are not values you associate with Australia's management of the relationship. 312 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.100 Another part is a more independent foreign policy. 313 00:23:26.120 --> 00:23:31.360 Japan favours America, but the Japanese know that their national interest 314 00:23:31.360 --> 00:23:35.180 is not identical to American national interest. 315 00:23:36.020 --> 00:23:40.700 Our nearest neighbour Indonesia, with whom Australia should be much more closely allied, 316 00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:46.980 manages to walk the line between China and the USA with so much more finesse than we can. 317 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:49.060 So does Singapore. 318 00:23:49.320 --> 00:23:51.300 And for that matter, so does New Zealand. 319 00:23:51.300 --> 00:23:53.900 New Zealand, whom we think of as family. 320 00:23:55.300 --> 00:23:58.020 None of these countries spend as much political capital 321 00:23:58.020 --> 00:24:00.880 needlessly poking China in the eye as we have done. 322 00:24:01.340 --> 00:24:05.340 And none have had their trade with China threatened at this time. 323 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:10.120 They treat China with public and formal diplomatic courtesy, 324 00:24:10.320 --> 00:24:12.660 as one should treat one's neighbours, 325 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:18.300 particularly the very big and powerful ones with whom you want strong commercial ties. 326 00:24:19.620 --> 00:24:24.020 Prime Minister Morrison chose to attach himself at the hip to a President 327 00:24:24.020 --> 00:24:28.800 who not only did not drain the swamp, he was the swamp. 328 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:35.800 A President who went out of his way to destroy the international organisations and norms 329 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:38.620 we constantly say we want others to follow. 330 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:43.880 A President who belittled the alliances on which our security was said to depend. 331 00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:48.280 I don't know what flattery spiked our Prime Minister's eyes, 332 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:53.360 or what his drink at the State Dinner Forum that Trump hosted at the White House in September 2019, 333 00:24:54.340 --> 00:24:56.500 but he was clearly seduced. 334 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.820 The PM is acting in the great Australian tradition of subservience. 335 00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:04.420 Some would call it loyalty. 336 00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:08.620 First to the British motherland, and then after World War II, 337 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:11.000 to our new big brother, the United States. 338 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.940 Loyalty took us into World War I. 339 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:21.760 Subservience has taken us into three extended and disastrous American-led conflicts 340 00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:24.980 in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. 341 00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:29.800 None of these wars have made Australia safer. 342 00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:33.800 But now the Americans are again leading us towards confrontation, 343 00:25:34.940 --> 00:25:35.740 this time with China. 344 00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:40.000 Peter Dutton tells us that the drums of war are beating. 345 00:25:40.700 --> 00:25:43.340 But is this what we really want? 346 00:25:43.340 --> 00:25:46.360 Is this really in our national interest? 347 00:25:47.360 --> 00:25:52.120 Isn't it yet time to develop a more independent foreign policy 348 00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:54.460 that retains the US as a friend, 349 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:59.980 but that also develops a more balanced, diplomatic and nuanced relationship with China? 350 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.680 Contrary to the doomsayers and the pundits, 351 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:06.920 we don't have to sell our soul to achieve this. 352 00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:13.280 Japan hasn't. New Zealand hasn't. Indonesia hasn't. Singapore hasn't. 353 00:26:14.120 --> 00:26:18.100 China has been on a trajectory back to historical greatness 354 00:26:18.100 --> 00:26:21.000 since Deng Xiaoping started the economic reforms 355 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:25.760 in the countryside of Sichuan province in the late 1970s. 356 00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:30.280 But the sheer incompetence and corruption of the Trump administration 357 00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:33.520 helped make China great again, 358 00:26:34.280 --> 00:26:38.860 and contributed enormously to speeding the shift in the world's center of gravity 359 00:26:38.860 --> 00:26:41.320 from the Atlantic to the Asia Pacific. 360 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:46.140 It's important to ask ourselves what China wants. 361 00:26:47.060 --> 00:26:51.680 I think it's to be the undisputed leading power in the Asia Pacific, 362 00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:56.160 or the Indo-Pacific, as some have now taken to calling it, 363 00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:59.660 as though this very name somehow reduces China's influence. 364 00:27:00.580 --> 00:27:04.180 And then China wants to be respected as a superpower, 365 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:08.520 equal to the United States and its broad influence in world affairs. 366 00:27:09.620 --> 00:27:11.300 I would argue that, in fact, 367 00:27:11.300 --> 00:27:13.960 in view of the giant land mass and population, 368 00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:15.900 its economic strength, 369 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.200 developed infrastructure and growing military capacity, 370 00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:23.140 the first goal is not objectively unreasonable. 371 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:27.600 But it does require the United States to accept China's rise 372 00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:29.680 rather than attempting to contain it. 373 00:27:30.460 --> 00:27:34.280 The U.S. should understand the logic and desirability 374 00:27:34.280 --> 00:27:37.780 of being the dominant player in your own backyard, 375 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:40.640 just as they are in Latin America 376 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:41.540 and the Caribbean. 377 00:27:42.840 --> 00:27:45.760 The second, broader objective will take a bit longer, 378 00:27:45.940 --> 00:27:49.760 but in principle, a balance of power is no bad thing. 379 00:27:51.280 --> 00:27:55.180 Unfortunately, the Prime Minister has chosen to take his advice on China 380 00:27:55.180 --> 00:27:58.340 and to have his speeches written about China 381 00:27:58.340 --> 00:28:01.600 from a very narrow group of people 382 00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:04.160 in the defense and intelligence worlds, 383 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:08.000 all trained by and taking their cues from 384 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.620 the U.S. defense and intelligence world. 385 00:28:21.860 --> 00:28:24.120 So, what does this mean? 386 00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:28.600 It means accepting the People's Republic of China 387 00:28:28.600 --> 00:28:29.880 for what it is, 388 00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:32.840 a state in the international system 389 00:28:32.840 --> 00:28:35.220 as legitimate as any other, 390 00:28:35.320 --> 00:28:37.460 with its own system of government 391 00:28:37.460 --> 00:28:39.420 and its own power structures. 392 00:28:39.860 --> 00:28:40.620 The U.S. should understand that China is a country 393 00:28:40.620 --> 00:28:40.660 of the most important and most important 394 00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:43.060 This is the state with which Australia established 395 00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:45.740 diplomatic relations in 1972, 396 00:28:46.580 --> 00:28:50.380 with which we developed the closest and most productive 397 00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:53.240 bilateral relationship over 40 years. 398 00:28:54.280 --> 00:28:57.460 China has been a communist state throughout this time, 399 00:28:57.580 --> 00:29:00.300 but this was not an ideological impediment 400 00:29:00.300 --> 00:29:03.320 to mutual respect and mutually beneficial cooperation. 401 00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:07.680